/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/06/#ubuntu-uk.txt

ballWish I had some fireworks.01:28
ali1234AlanBell: it can be done: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitcoin-dark-wallet03:47
ali1234also you can buy raspis for bitcoin on bitcoinin.com03:48
=== MrGarlic_ is now known as MrGarlic
=== Myrtti_ is now known as Myrtti
MooDoomorning all07:04
shaunohttp://www.muktware.com/2013/11/ubuntu-developers-start-indiegogo-campaign-raspberry-pi-build-cluster/15543   verdict is in; "not as ambitious as was the Ubuntu Edge"07:20
Myrttishauno: lol, not "I have a brain"?07:37
shaunoI thought it was nice to see :)  but they could have caught him at a better moment for a screengrab07:41
Myrttiit's always nice to see an Alan, but calling it "not as ambitious as Ubuntu Edge" is a bit of a... statement07:42
MyrttiI can't decide is it an under or overstatement07:42
popey654 Minutes to build glibc on pi07:44
shaunothat's not too bad07:45
shaunoback when I was young/stupid enough to do linux-from-scratch on a regular basis, glibc was an allnighter  (and firefox/openoffice were measured in days)07:46
TheOpenSourcerershauno: Yep. Me too.07:47
TheOpenSourcererThat's where I "cut my teeth" as it were07:47
popey\o/ spotify on my ubuntu phone07:48
popeyhttp://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2013-11-06-074840.png07:48
shaunonow, overclock the pi, make clean & try again?  curious to see what 700MHz vs 1GHz means in the real world ;)07:48
popeythats not a bad idea07:49
Myrttioh I remember the days when I was still somewhat interested in hardware07:50
Myrttiback when AMD Thunderbird 750MHz was the latest hot new thing and I had to try to connect the pins with a pencil07:50
Myrttibut anyway, do go on07:51
popeyhaha, overclocked it to 950, crashed as soon as I give it any load at all07:56
shaunowell, that's worth knowing too07:57
* popey puts pi away08:03
=== iahmad_ is now known as iahmad
TheOpenSourcererI appear to have lost my clock/calendar from the top bar in 13.10...08:18
TheOpenSourcererAny ideas where it has gone?08:18
MartijnVdSTheOpenSourcerer: Where you're going, you won't need clocks ;)08:20
popeyhttp://askubuntu.com/questions/45970/missing-date-time-from-top-panel-of-unity-desktop08:21
popeykill unity-panel-service08:21
popeyknown bug which I believe is fixed and is coming down the pipe08:21
=== iahmad is now known as iahmad|afk
popeybug 1199877 may be related08:22
lubotu3bug 1199877 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service memory leak and 100% CPU usage" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119987708:22
TheOpenSourcererThat worked - thanks popey08:22
popeynp08:22
TheOpenSourcererlol - just did a apt-get update/dist-upgrade and the following updates look interesting "gnome-control-center-datetime indicator-datetime"08:23
popey08:29
SuperMattmorning08:32
MooDoomorning SuperMatt popey08:33
=== iahmad|afk is now known as iahmad
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)09:27
SuperMattmorning calmy09:28
MooDoomornin bigcalm09:28
popeyyo yo yo09:32
MartijnVdSg'mornin everyone09:37
MooDoomorning MartijnVdS09:38
SuperMattwell, helpouts are already off to a shakey start09:40
JamesTaitGood morning all; happy Stress Awareness Day!  :-D09:41
SuperMattpeople requesting specific hardware advice, or "how to install and use nfs"09:41
SuperMattI don't mind helping with the latter, at least getting started, but if your function buttons aren't working, better hit up askubuntu09:41
jussiJamesTait: do you have random 8 ball thing that spits out a day name for you? :P09:42
JamesTaitjussi, oh no, nothing like that.  If I did that I'd have no idea what day it was myself!09:42
JamesTaitjussi, I haz intarwebz!09:42
MartijnVdS\o/ intarwebs09:44
MartijnVdSJamesTait: Thanks, now I'm aware of stress..09:44
JamesTaitIt's also Saxophone day, apparently.09:44
JamesTaitSo, http://youtu.be/2j7uAimpx3k?t=25s09:44
Myrttiis it? is it?09:44
MartijnVdSJamesTait: not Careless Whisper?09:45
mungbeanbaker st?09:45
mungbeanpink panther?09:45
JamesTaitMartijnVdS, or a rickroll?09:45
mungbeanthe song from taxi driver?09:45
MartijnVdSJamesTait: not on saxophone09:45
JamesTaitMartijnVdS, clearly you still have much to learn. ;)09:46
MartijnVdSnah I just have a proper music taste ;)09:46
Myrttiok, that's better than epic sax guy09:46
Myrttihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy1B3agGNxw09:47
Myrttiaka https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxopViU98Xo09:47
mungbeanit was baker st!09:47
mungbeangood guess09:47
JamesTaitThat appears to be some kind of mutated violin.09:47
JamesTaitOh.  Oh dear.09:48
JamesTaitmungbean gets the prize!09:48
JamesTait* see MartijnVdS for details.09:49
mungbeanmy deb file is 6k. i think something went wrong09:49
MartijnVdSmungbean: it's just very easy to compress09:49
mungbeangetting cheesed off with this :(09:50
mungbeanseems like unecessarily complex09:50
bigcalmczajkowski: is this in your future? https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7874504192/h59789D87/09:50
MooDoolo09:54
MooDool]09:54
brobostigongood morning everyone,10:14
MartijnVdS\o brobostigon10:19
brobostigonmorning MartijnVdS10:19
SuperMatthttp://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/11/05/2337257/robots-can-learn-to-hold-knives-and-not-stab-humans researchers at Cornell are teaching robots how to not stab people10:33
SuperMattI think this is very important research10:33
diddledanSuperMatt: they're not self-aware yet though10:35
SuperMatthttp://signup.bribe.io/10:37
SuperMattbribe devs into fixing a bug10:37
diddledanlol10:40
MartijnVdSSo it's the old "bug bounty" system that didn't work then?10:41
diddledanMartijnVdS: I think it's a bit wider than a single project's bounty programme10:41
bigcalmSurprised that this tweet is still getting favourites and retweets https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/303095108872585216/photo/110:51
SuperMattis that on one or two graphics cards?10:52
bigcalmSuperMatt: one10:52
SuperMattdang10:52
bigcalm2 x DVI, 1 x HDMI10:52
SuperMattI've never managed to get it working on two10:52
MooDoonice :)10:52
bigcalmFor reference, this is a follow up post: http://www.myrant.net/2013/02/17/multi-screen-with-ubuntu-unity/10:53
DJonesAnybody going to try for this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24828750 I'm somewhat past the the age it mentions10:53
SuperMattman, that would be nice10:54
SuperMattbut I cba10:54
bigcalmCan you act?10:54
SuperMattyes10:55
SuperMattI've done a lot of it10:55
DJonesbigcalm: What does being able to act have to do with being in movies, Jean Claude Van Damm.... I rest my case :)10:55
bigcalmFnar10:55
mungbeanbzr builddeb -S fails with  clearsign failed: secret key not available10:55
mungbeanany suggestions?10:55
mungbeani have a gpg key i want to use10:56
bigcalmDJones: I love his beer adverts10:56
DJonesbigcalm: The adverts are ok, but the beer is awful, and I have to say he hasn't aged well10:56
bigcalmI'm not a fan of such beers myself10:58
davmor2Morning all10:58
bigcalmHi davmor210:58
MooDoomoring davmor210:58
DJonesMorningt davmor210:58
davmor2How's Mrs bigcalm ?10:59
bigcalmdavmor2: struggling with the new surname11:00
davmor2bigcalm: has Hayley gone through the million and one signatures to figure out which she likes yet11:01
bigcalmdavmor2: the 1st time she tried her new signature was when we went to the bank to change her name there11:01
davmor2bigcalm: haha11:03
davmor2MooDoo: Had a look at some of those Photo's chap, some of them looked really funky, nice one :)11:03
MooDoodavmor2: which photos?11:04
davmor2MooDoo: I got an email from Flikr or off facebook pointing at your recent Photos,   Mixture of kids by a lake, some scenery shoots etc11:05
davmor2MooDoo: let me have a dig and I'll find the link11:06
MooDoodavmor2: http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulmellorsphotography/sets/72157635062528102/ this lot?11:07
davmor2MooDoo: that's the ones11:08
MooDoodavmor2: yeah thanks, friend wanted some family pictures.11:08
mungbeancan anyone help with my question up there ^^11:10
SuperMattmungbean: alas, I cannot11:13
davmor2mungbean: I don't know what the question is without digging in irssi11:13
mungbean bzr builddeb -S fails with  clearsign failed: secret key not available11:13
mungbeanOH11:14
mungbeanit works11:14
SuperMatt\o/11:14
SuperMattwell done11:14
SuperMattpebkac fixed11:14
mungbeani changed debian/changelog to be the exact phrase outpuuted by gpg --list-keys11:14
davmor2mungbean: liar liar pants on fire :P11:14
popeyʘ‿ಠ11:14
mungbeanwhich bit ?11:15
davmor2mungbean: yes shockingly it does expect your exact key to be there :)11:15
mungbeanyes but even the comment (Launchpad signing key)11:15
mungbeanhad to be present11:15
mungbeani thought the env variables should be sufficient11:16
davmor2mungbean: daft question but you did do bzr launchpad-login and bzr whoami right?11:16
mungbeanyesh11:17
mungbeanthis is mega tedious11:17
mungbeanand has put me off the whole thing :(11:17
davmor2mungbean: and your key is available in LP right?  Cause that's all I've ever needed11:17
popeywhich guide are you following?11:17
popeyseems way more complex than I'd do11:18
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|afk
mungbeani have 50 tabs open, mostly on ubuntu.com11:18
mungbeanhttp://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/packaging-new-software.html11:18
mungbeanhttp://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/getting-set-up.html11:19
mungbeanetc11:19
popeybut you're not packaging something new are you?11:19
popeyyou're just rebuilding something existing for another release?11:19
mungbeani'm not rebuilding a saucy version though11:20
mungbeani'm doing a newer version11:20
popeya new upstream version?11:20
mungbeani haven't found documents that suggest any easier way11:20
mungbeanpopey: yes11:20
popeywell the super easy way is to file a bug and get someone else to do it ㋛11:21
mungbeani thought this might be a useful exercise11:21
mungbeandidn't quite realise what was involved11:21
popeyI probably wouldn't have done it the way you did, but there's always multiple ways to skin a cat11:22
penguin42mungbean: The changelog formats are very very fussy for every part of them11:23
popeyfile a bug to get 1.10.1 in trusty, and then request backport to saucy/raring/precise etc11:23
popeyhttp://askubuntu.com/questions/75352/how-to-request-a-package-upgrade-in-the-next-ubuntu-release11:24
mungbeanok, feels like defeat but meh11:24
mungbeanat least i have the deb file for the meantine11:24
mungbeancheesr11:25
popeyother people benefit from this though11:25
mungbeanyep, if it gets done - is it usually successful>11:25
popeyin fact11:25
popeyjust needs sync from debian11:25
popeyas sid has 1.10.311:26
popey(you probably could have grabbed the deb from http://packages.debian.org/sid/liferea11:26
popeyalan@deep-thought:~/Downloads$ liferea -v11:27
popeyLiferea 1.10.311:27
popeydone11:27
popey11:27
mungbeanisn't that considered "bad"11:29
GentileBenMyrtti I got my N5. How's your battery life been?11:30
=== alan_g|afk is now known as alan_g
Myrttiit's better than my Galaxy Nexus11:30
mungbeanthere's lots of ways to get the app, but thought i would learn the PPA thing as an exercise, just didn't realise how complex it was11:31
popeyyeah, as I said, multiple ways to skin cat11:31
mungbeanthink i just did them all11:32
mungbeanonly bones left now11:32
Myrttijust got the Spigen champagne case for the phone11:32
Myrttilooks surprisingly posh11:32
popeyLaney: is it possible to "requestsync" but say you want to keep the ubuntu changes?11:33
Laneysync means you want to drop them11:33
Laneyso, no11:33
popeybecause it seems by default it assumes I want to sync from debian and overwrite..11:33
popeyright11:33
Laneywhat's wanted here is a merge11:34
mungbeanFYI the debian one don't work without a bunch of deps11:36
popeyworks here11:36
popey(on saucy)11:36
mungbeanlater version of libglib etc11:36
mungbeanprecise11:36
Laneygrim11:37
Laneyyou'll want to try rebuilding it11:37
popeyright, it would get rebuilt during backporting11:37
popey?11:37
Laneyassuming it doesn't need any new dependency versions that you don't have in precise11:37
mungbeanmy locally built one works11:38
mungbeani.e. copying the deb from my precise build box11:39
davmor2Myrtti: did you put UT on your galaxy nexus yet?11:39
mungbeanand install works on a clean machine11:39
mungbeanafter all that, dilbert RSS feed has stopped working :(11:39
Myrttidavmor2: nope, D had to go to work at six today so he had to go to bed so early we managed to barely eat a tinned soup before bedtime after he came home from work11:40
Myrttimaybe today11:40
MyrttiI'm apparently going to be the guinea pig11:40
popey\o/ soup11:40
Myrttiif it works fine for me, he's going to do it on his aswell11:40
davmor2Myrtti: \o/ for having a job, \o/ for soup, boo for the getting up tw'early and \o/ for putting UT on tonight :)11:41
Myrttiwhat I really want is a Ubuntu themed cover for GN11:41
MyrttiI hope the merchandise guys act on my suggestion soonish :-P11:42
davmor2Myrtti: http://www.zazzle.co.uk/pink_purple_galaxy_glitter_girly_nebula_stars_case-179799598640136588 :)11:43
Myrttioy11:43
Myrttigawds11:44
bigcalmThat looks nice11:44
Myrttizebus11:44
davmor2Myrtti: http://www.maniacstore.com/Belkin-Essential-063-for-GALAXY-Nexus-Purple-Lightning-Paparazzi-Pink-F8M279qeC00.html this is better though11:44
ikoniaanyone know of any good UK shops/sites doing good deals on lower power "green" hard disks at the moment ?11:44
bigcalmThat reminds me that I need to replace the HDDs in my Father's and wife's laptops with SSDs11:45
davmor2Myrtti: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/522532589/Wallet_Leather_Case_Cover_with_Strap.html  there is a purple and orange one11:45
bigcalmWeeeee. Referring to my wife is fun :)11:46
Myrttidavmor2: I've got two purple cases already, but I want something Ubuntu specific, by the same people11:46
davmor2Myrtti: you're no fun ;)11:46
Myrttidavmor2: besides, I'm not going to order 100 of them11:46
Myrttino matter how nice the alibaba one looks like11:46
bigcalmThe Velcro on my neoprene sleeve has worn out. Might be time for a new case (or phone?)11:47
davmor2Myrtti: it does look nice doesn't it :)11:47
MooDoojust sharing the information about the raspeerry pi cluster indigo project, looks interesting :D12:10
mungbeanis there any news on the next rpi?12:17
popeyi hear rumour it may do power over ethernet would would be neat12:25
TheOpenSourcererLots of peeps asked for that for RPi 1.0 ;-) Myself included.12:26
ikoniapopey: I read that had been dropped due to cost, they are trying to not change the cost12:28
ikoniadropped as in dropped as a possibility12:28
popeybummer12:29
popeybe nice if they choose a more modern arm rev12:29
ikoniaI thought that was going to get bumped ?12:29
popeyno idea12:30
penguin42popey: They'll have fun if they change *anything* keeping it compatible with existing Pi installs, and one of the nice things about Pi is being able to take the images anywhere12:33
ikoniapenguin42: that's an interesting point,12:34
BigRedSPoE would rather break the educational model unless it's an option alongside traditional power...12:37
popeytrue12:37
popeywonder if they will keep the form factor identical and just rev the speed / chip12:38
penguin42BigRedS: Yeh it should be easy to make it either, although PoE injectors are pretty cheap12:38
MartijnVdSnot every PoE injector uses the standard though12:39
BigRedSpenguin42: yeah, but a PoE injector is still a weird thing to expect someone to get/have at home.12:39
penguin42nod12:39
BigRedSthat said, I'm still surprised they used HDMI rather than VGA so perhaps I'm mischaracterising the sort of people they're aiming at12:39
MartijnVdSBigRedS: every TV from that last 5-10 years has HDMI12:40
penguin42BigRedS: But these days most people have HDMI TVs even if they don't have it on monitors12:40
popeyi think they were of the opinion that hdmi is pretty common now12:40
BigRedSyeah, it probably is12:40
penguin42BigRedS: And schools being able to use it on TVs is probably a more important consideration than those who already have monitors12:41
BigRedSpenguin42: yeah, I expected VGA to be more common on TVs than HDMI, which is probably where I went most wrong :)12:42
BigRedSI don't really pay attention to TVs12:42
BigRedSThinking about it, I guess consoles are all HDMI now, and probably have been for some time12:42
MartijnVdSXBox360 and PS3 have HDMI, yes12:43
MartijnVdSthough they can do analog (except not everything, and not in HD)12:43
=== iahmad__ is now known as iahmad
mungbeananyone tried a pi over the analog out onto a tv?12:47
mungbeanfonts must be hard to read12:47
penguin42mungbean: Well that's the way I was using computers in the 80s12:48
popeyditto ☻12:48
popey40x2412:48
penguin4280x2512:48
mungbeanmode 3? hardcore12:48
penguin42Mode 012:48
penguin42I can't remember - there was a mode on the Arc that was 130 chars wasn't there?12:49
mungbean40 x 25 chars, 4 colours12:49
mungbean^^ mode 0 Bbeeeb12:49
mungbeanhmm12:49
mungbeanthats wrong. mode0 was the really hard to read one12:49
penguin42yeh mode 0 was 80x25 b&w12:49
penguin42mode 1 was 40x25 4 colours12:49
mungbeanso if you're using 80x25 on a pi,. the world hasn't moved on much12:50
dwatkinsOracle's sign-up page is an utter travesty.12:52
penguin42mungbean: If you want to push it you can try interleave but that's pretty crapy12:53
shaunoit's meant to be.  it's a harbinger.12:53
dwatkinsshauno: you're not wrong - the first page after signing up (which took several attempts due to the page's idiotic requirements) showed "System error. Please re-try your action. If you continue to get this error, please contact the Administrator."12:55
* dwatkins has at least learned that virtual installations of debian require more than 4 GB of disk space12:55
MartijnVdSeven minimal ones?12:55
dwatkinsMartijnVdS: it works fine until you use tasksel to install anything but the base system (i.e. desktop install fails)12:56
dwatkinsThe error is just "something failed", but I'm pretty sure it simply didn't have enough room12:56
dwatkinsWhere does dpkg even log this, though? It's not in /var/log12:57
popey /var/log/installer12:58
dwatkinscheers popey, will tail -f it12:58
shaunobetter question is why doesn't it fail gracefully .. you can't trust logs when the disk's full12:58
dwatkinsmy point exactly, shauno12:59
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch
Myrttiooh ooh13:00
MyrttiI hadn't realised new version of Trigger can actually make the phone connect to a right bluetooth device13:00
* Myrtti goes on to a NFC frenzy13:01
shaunoI wonder how far under 4GB debian would go though.  I have an ubuntu install in <300Mb13:01
penguin42I'd be surprised if you can't get Debian at least that small; I mean I've done it years ago13:02
penguin42and I'm fairly sure a debootstrap world is pretty small13:02
mungbeanpeople are complaining there's a news blackout on a few people outside parliament in guy fawkes masks.13:03
mungbeani'm pretty sure only 1% of demonstrations get reported13:04
dwatkinsLast time I was there, there were people camped out in front of parliament who had been there for weeks.13:04
AlanBellwould it be this news that was blacked out? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-2483012313:04
BigRedSAre the Catholics getting uppity again?13:04
BigRedSthose aren't guy fawkes masks, are they?13:05
mungbeanwhat are they?13:06
mungbeanhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_mask13:06
dwatkinspresumably the one from V for Vendetta13:09
mungbeanfawkes wasn't burned at teh stake though13:16
BigRedSoh right, I thought it was invented for V from Vendetta13:16
mungbeantbh it would have been more pleasant to do so than what happened to him13:17
TheOpenSourcererhttp://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5292412 Almost 15% of the way there already :-D13:18
MooDooyeah going to donate later this evening :D13:18
mungbeansomebody who isn't alan paid £150 for a beer with the alans?13:18
TheOpenSourcererlol13:18
TheOpenSourcererAnd we'd buy her a beer anyway ;-)13:19
MartijnVdSI've already given the Alans beer 8-)13:19
TheOpenSourcererYou have indeed. And we have already drunk it :-D13:22
mungbeani gave alan my beer voucher from oggcamp once13:23
mungbeanthat counts as buying alan a beer13:23
mungbeani think he gave it to someone else13:23
bigcalmAlans: where is there good pie in Farnham? My experience stops at the pub next to the station :D13:24
TheOpenSourcererPie?13:24
TheOpenSourcererHmmm.13:24
bigcalmPie13:25
mungbeanye olde pie shoppe?13:25
jussiooh, pie!!13:25
bigcalmIf I can be assured of good pie, I will donate to the Pi, Pie & Pint level13:25
mungbeanwhen i win the lottery i don't play i will open a shop split into 3 sections.13:25
TheOpenSourcererI am not sure we do pies in Farnham... It's a bit posh for that.13:25
mungbeansection 1 airfix models, section 2 pie and ale, section 3 wool for the missis13:25
MartijnVdSFarnham - Too Posh for Pie13:25
* jussi grumbles at Finnish "meat pies"13:26
MooDoopie - 3.14 flavoured13:26
mungbeani just ate some pie13:26
TheOpenSourcererWe do have the "Home of the Gourmet Burger" opposite our office - and they are rather lovely. :-D13:26
mungbeanbut it was fruit pie covered in custard13:26
bigcalmTheOpenSourcerer: I had the ribs the last time I was in there. It was rather large13:28
TheOpenSourcererJolly dee.13:28
dwatkinsI used to work opposite a rather good curry house, you could smell them preparing sauces from about 11am each day - as you can imagine, we gave-in to temptation at least once a week and had lunch there.13:30
bigcalmhttp://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/pre_rat_ribs.jpg13:31
bigcalmThat's what you missed out on by going to Italy :P13:31
MartijnVdSrat ribs13:32
MartijnVdSnow there's something I wouldn't eat13:32
bigcalm!rat13:32
lubotu3The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. 21st September 2013, Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/13:32
dwatkinsI was expecting one of Cut-me-own-throat Dibbler's pies, from the URL, bigcalm13:32
bigcalmHumm, needs updating13:32
mungbeannot knowingly MartijnVdS13:32
MartijnVdSmungbean: but these were pre-rats? :)13:32
MartijnVdSuh13:32
MartijnVdSbigcalm:13:32
TheOpenSourcererAhh - CMOT Dibbler...13:32
bigcalmThe dates are available for next year's RAT. Are we ready to organise and choose a date? :) http://www.watercressline.co.uk/product.php/10/real-ale-train-r-a-t13:34
BigRedSOh, I should try to make this one13:34
bigcalmEverybody should :D13:34
TheOpenSourcererAll my hosts are named after Discworld characters. I did have Gaspode13:34
bigcalmdiscworld is our network at home :)13:35
TheOpenSourcererI am typing this on hrun13:35
bigcalmAs chosen by Hayley!13:35
mungbeanmine are after WWII fighters13:35
TheOpenSourcerermy desktop at home is lobsang13:35
TheOpenSourcererWife's is Binky, kids' Twoflower, home server Vimes.13:36
TheOpenSourcererNetbook Magrat13:36
bigcalmMy last desktop was SNAFU. My current desktop is SNAFU2...13:36
popey\o/ deep-thought13:36
popey(and wopr)13:36
MartijnVdSmine are just "martijn-desktop", "martijn-vaio", etc.13:36
mungbeanlol13:36
TheOpenSourcererGreat imagination there MartijnVdS13:37
MartijnVdSAnd my wifi network could be translated as "Airing out the bits"13:37
penguin42popey: No 'earth' ?13:37
popeynot yet13:38
popeymaybe another one will13:38
=== alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g
bigcalmAn error occurred while processing your request.13:45
bigcalmReference #97.a102adc6.1383745485.b8cefeb13:45
bigcalmIndeegogo fail :(13:45
TheOpenSourcererOh :-(13:45
bigcalmWhile registering for an account that is13:45
bigcalmYour Amazon.co.uk order of "Genuine Official MOGA Pro..." has been dispatched13:47
bigcalmThat's an email subject that I like to see13:47
bigcalmSadly it's due to arrive while I'm out of town13:47
popeywhen is GTA5 out?13:48
popeyWANT13:48
MartijnVdSpopey: PS3 or Xbox? :)13:48
popeyshut up MartijnVdS13:48
popeysaw that coming13:48
MartijnVdSpopey: too easy13:48
bigcalmpopey: I'm getting the above controller so that I can play GTA Vice City more comfortably on my tablet & phone.13:49
popeyI have an Xbox 360 controller13:50
bigcalmpopey: I've even managed to install the game on my TV stick, though not been able to play it due to lack of sensible interface13:50
MartijnVdSpopey: steam can use those, in "Big Picture" mode, never tried it though13:50
popeyindeed13:50
popeyi have in a few games13:50
bigcalmMartijnVdS: I use my xbox 360 controller with steam outside of big picture mode13:50
shaunoI have a db9 to usb adaptor for my konix :)13:51
bigcalmOh, I hadn't thought of trying my xbox controller with the tv stick. Oops :)13:51
diddledansurely there are more appropriate systems to build for the pi than the pi itself - re: the indiegogo campaign for a pi build cluster13:54
bigcalmNeeds to be on the arm chip13:54
diddledanreally?13:54
shaunoneeds to be interesting and geekworthy13:54
diddledanthat one I'll concede13:55
shaunolets face it.  cross compiling is boring13:55
* bigcalm forgot about cross compiling13:55
bigcalmI'd go with interesting and geeky13:55
diddledanI need food13:55
penguin42diddledan: Yeh I keep saying that, a couple of Wand boards (i.mx6 quad core Cortex-A9's) would probably send the Pis packing13:56
penguin42(and are still ARMs)13:56
AlanBelltrue enough13:56
AlanBellhowever, nobody has done that13:57
shaunoI think it sounds fun.  it might not be the most sensible path from A to B, but who ever wanted to be sensible if/when they grow up14:01
jussithe apc.io isnt a bad board also14:01
Myrttieither14:03
penguin42jussi: boring CPU14:03
jussipenguin42: even the rock one?14:03
penguin42jussi: 800MHz via ? Yes14:04
penguin42jussi: Oh Rock, hmm still boring - 800MHz single core? A914:04
shaunofor the price of two pi  (a tau?)14:05
MartijnVdSRaspberry Tau?14:05
MartijnVdSdual-core pi14:05
dwatkinsTwo node cluster?14:05
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
diddledangotta love the geekiness of knowing the term tau in relation to pi14:08
shaunotoday just isn't a productive day.  I'm replacing 'earthing' with 'earthling' in a bunch of electrical trainings14:09
diddledanerm, shauno , is that the right way about?14:10
shauno:D14:10
MartijnVdSonly if you're not grounded in reality14:10
diddledan"ensure your pipes are well bonded with an earthling"14:11
MartijnVdSdiddledan: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/networking/bonding.txt14:12
AlanBellshauno: I am tempted to add a tau perk :)14:13
diddledanAlanBell: do it14:13
MartijnVdS\o/ http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/a/64099369314:15
diddledanMartijnVdS: is that over wireless?14:16
MartijnVdSdiddledan: 4G14:16
diddledanyeah, that's what I meant ;-p14:16
MartijnVdSdiddledan: in the middle of Amsterdam14:16
diddledanI totally love the idea of hamster jam14:17
MartijnVdSdiddledan: Hamster dance?14:17
penguin42diddledan: I'm not sure the fur would be that good14:19
diddledanpenguin42: you'd take the fur off first14:19
diddledanpenguin42: and remove the boney bits14:19
penguin42diddledan: Still, not much pectin in a hamster - unless you let it gorge on berrys before hand, but then that might be erm messy14:21
AlanBelldiddledan: shauno: by popular demand we now have a tau perk14:23
diddledanyey14:24
popey"popular"14:28
AlanBell>114:28
* AlanBell has low standards14:28
aquariuspopey, AlanBell, did you see slangasek's g+ comment about getting some time from calxeda or someone to build Ubuntu for raspi, rather than making a raspi build farm?14:59
popeyhah, no.14:59
AlanBelleveryone has a better idea :)15:01
aquariusI think it was on soeone's reshare of a post about it15:01
aquariusg+ will not let me show all comments by a person, irritatingly, which I want to do about five times a da15:01
AlanBell"I am doing foo" "no!, don't do foo, do bar instead, which you are not doing and neither am I"15:02
AlanBellbut yeah, a calxeda box would be nice as a build farm15:02
aquariusahaha!15:03
aquariushttps://plus.google.com/u/0/+JorgeCastro/posts/eUqxKMm1TTx15:03
aquariusI have no knowledge about whether that's good advice or not, but it's from slangasek who is pretty smart :)15:04
AlanBellit is good advice, if you don't take into account all the parameters15:05
AlanBellincluding the non-technical ones15:05
dwatkinsClusters of multiple x86 nodes for running scientific etc. applications are rather expensive, so it makes sense to build them out of cheap Raspberry Pi machines to test MPI etc. code on.15:05
dwatkinsI'm not sure Ubuntu is the right distro for a cluster node, however, perhaps Ubuntu Server.15:06
AlanBellwhich is the same thing15:06
popeythe calxeda box is arm15:06
popeya monster multi cpu arm box15:06
dwatkinsah ok, whatever is headless and has no GUI.15:06
AlanBellyeah, calxeda was the thing martinbogo was working on15:06
dwatkinsI used to support SLES and RHEL clusters, the most difficult part is getting the automated installation stuff working seamlessly.15:07
dwatkinsWe used bittorrent to distribute the disk image to each node, which was fun.15:08
shaunoit's a shame the pi doesn't do netbooting15:08
dwatkinsCan't you bootstrap it at-all with a custom SD card?15:09
AlanBellit can with a small SD card to get it started15:09
AlanBellyou can also boot from USB that way (which won't be much better than SD card)15:10
dwatkinsat least if you can boot off the network you can manage the OS installations from a central server.15:10
AlanBellor clone SD cards and shove em in15:10
MartijnVdSbut that's manual labour15:11
dwatkinstrue, but that requires physical access of course.15:11
AlanBellyup15:11
=== directhe` is now known as directhex
dwatkinsfor Raspberry Pi based systems, I imagine manually swapping SD cards isn't much of an issue, bot for a 4096 cluster, automation is best ;)15:11
dwatkins*node15:11
penguin42AlanBell: If you can boot from USB then boot from a PC via a powered, switchable hub then you can individually reboot them15:12
AlanBellor take the google approach and let them die15:12
dwatkinslet what die, AlanBell?15:13
AlanBellgoogle don't do much with dead units in their datacentre, they don't take them out if they stop working15:13
dwatkinsoh right, I was just thinking of reinstalling for whatever reason, but yes15:14
mgdmautomation is best always15:14
* mgdm automates all the things15:14
dwatkinsindeed, mgdm - if you have to do something more than once, it's probably worth automating.15:14
penguin42AlanBell: I assume they do when they get to a certain density of dead ones, i.e. enough for someone to bother going over and dealing with15:20
MartijnVdS"Hm, this data centre is down to 50%. Time to start replacing."15:21
AlanBellpenguin42: I think they turn off and scrap columns of them when they are obsolete15:22
AlanBelland they put the UPS on the low voltage side of the transformer15:22
MartijnVdSthat way, you don't need to do weird things to match the phase15:23
AlanBellUPS is full of weird15:23
shaunoI've a feeling they pay more attention to dead nodes than popular legend betrays.  they did that whole paper on failure modes/trends in disk drives, which betrays a bit more post-mortem than throwing cold racks out the window15:25
BigRedSMost DC's UPS seems to be more an excercise in inefficiency than anything else15:25
BigRedSI don't understand why every server must have a transformer and rectifier in it15:25
MartijnVdSBigRedS: AC*, right?15:26
penguin42BigRedS: Well some places do 48v - but it's pretty rare15:26
mgdmI've wondered the same15:26
shauno48V tends to be telcomms15:26
penguin42shauno: Yeh but you can get some servers with 48v PSUs15:26
AlanBelllets take this 12v and ramp it up to 240v and make it AC and line up the phases so that we can transform it back to 12v15:26
penguin42problem is 1) it's not very common 2) I think it's more pricey 3) I'm scared of high current stuff all over 4) high current DC is supposedly a higher fire risk15:27
shaunomost places don't do DC because it's a lot less efficient than it sounds.  low DC over a long run gives you substantial voltage drops due to resistance15:27
mgdmI heard of someone (Facebook, I think?) doing the AC->DC conversion in the rack15:27
BigRedSMartijnVdS: DC as in Datacentres :)15:27
mgdmto get around that15:27
penguin42yeh per rack seems reasonable15:27
BigRedSshauno: there's not that much volt drop in the height of a rack15:28
MartijnVdSVoltage drop doesn't depend on altitude ;)15:28
BigRedSbut it's a drop!15:28
shaunoif you've only got a rack to worry about, you're probably not nickle&diming your power consumption :p15:29
BigRedShowever much you've got it's probably in racks15:29
BigRedSand plugging a rack into AC rather than a rack full of machines would seem to make more sense15:29
BigRedSbut for the fact that servers expect 240V AC in15:29
penguin42BigRedS: You mean in half the height of a rack....15:29
penguin42shauno: Opposite, if you've got a rack to worry about you're worried about total power input and cooling; it kind of gets scary when you've got say 10kW+ going into one15:30
BigRedSpenguin42: yeah, better, but that's another thing people seem to like getting wrong about racks15:30
BigRedSnot thinking about where in the rack to put them. I used to keep seeing a rack where the top half is patch panels and the bottom half is switches which made no sense to me15:31
shaunosticking a battery in each rack seems like it'd only suit certain loads too15:31
penguin42BigRedS: Ahem, yes I once designed a set like that - was a really bad decision - all the cables hang over your switches15:32
penguin42shauno: Why?15:34
shaunoit kinda assumes your load is the same across every rack15:34
shaunoelse your compute nodes exhaust the battery long before the network core, and you've got a nice shiney network supporting nothing15:35
penguin42shauno: assuming your networking is in the same rack, anyway most DC UPSs are only designed to last 5mins on the laughable hope the generator will start in that time or that it was only a power blip15:36
shaunoheh, in the hope that someone tested the genny in the last 6 months ..15:36
penguin42they always find impressive ways to fail15:36
mgdmI heard of one where they tested it every 3mo15:37
mgdmbut forgot to buy fuel for it15:37
mgdmso when it was required, it lasted about 3 minutes15:37
shaunoI Think the main catch is that there's no one answer that suits everyone.  it's neat that facebook, google, etc are coming up with some fresh ideas.  but just because something works at google's scale, doesn't mean it'd work at yours15:37
penguin42I used one DC where there was a breaker before the UPS; a lightning strike kicked the breaker so the UPS started taking it rather than the mains, but since the power was still going in the generator didn't bother to start15:38
penguin42shauno: And there are solutions for everyone; big UPSs that sit in the corner, rack scale ones, even PSU shaped ones you can replace PSUs in some servers with15:39
shaunoI mean, it's not the end of the world if google's datacenter goes down.  they have spare datacenters.  I don't  lol15:39
penguin42nod15:39
penguin42http://www.supermicro.nl/products/nfo/BBP.cfm  do look neat15:39
shaunoamazon still stick one big ups on the end of each row.  and microsoft are still going for the pod/container scheme that sun got bored of15:40
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|tea
penguin42shauno: Anyway, it's a lot easier to leave the big data centre guys to the guys building data centres and just buy a cage in one15:42
diddledanI want a cage15:43
diddledanhow much do they cost? /me checks his pocket change15:43
diddledanI've got about 37p15:43
penguin42they sometimes will give them to you if you buy enough rack/power15:44
diddledanhow much for a rack then?15:45
diddledanI've still got about 37p15:46
penguin42you might get a micron of space in the corner and a slightly drained AAA battery worth of power15:49
MartijnVdSoh and 300 baud15:49
diddledanicuk offer quarter-racks for 246/mo15:49
diddledan236**15:49
diddledanwith 2amperages15:50
mungbeandid anyone listen to the bletchely prog on radio 4?15:50
MartijnVdSno, but I get_iplayered it15:50
MartijnVdS*enqueue*15:50
penguin42diddledan: Sigh, 2amp for 10U - giggle15:50
mungbeanits 3hrs long15:51
BigRedSmgdm: the problem with backup diesel, though, is that it degrades with time. So you don't really want to keep the tank brimmed for ages without using it, either15:51
diddledantheir 1U comes with 0.4amps15:51
MartijnVdSBigRedS: that's why you do test runs regularly, right15:51
penguin42diddledan: Slightly better, but you would have to be careful15:51
=== alan_g|tea is now known as alan_g
BigRedSMartijnVdS: that's partly why *we* do, but it's also a secondary problem for people who don't15:52
shauno96W? that's .. enough that you won't get billed for standby current when the machine's off15:54
penguin42shauno: You can get a single socket x86 in 96W if you're careful15:55
diddledanit's pushing it15:55
diddledanreally want at least 150W15:55
diddledanthat's IMO15:56
penguin42yeh and you could easily take 250-500W in 1U15:56
diddledanstick a meaty gpu for opencl and you're way over15:57
diddledanspeaky de which. I need to get a gaming machine running - I like having three screens running off my macbook pro tho15:57
penguin42diddledan: Well you can get 4 socket x86 in 1U, at say 130W peak/socket and that's prior to any GPU or the like15:58
shaunoon the other hand, that's half of Alan's cluster ;)15:58
diddledanshauno: sweet. stick a bank of rpi in there then15:58
penguin42shauno: Is Alan's whole cluster that high?15:58
diddledanpenguin42: if you turn the shelf on it's side it will be :-p15:59
penguin42diddledan: ///that high current15:59
diddledanhehe15:59
diddledanI refer you to my previous statement :-p16:00
shaunoI really have no idea.  I seem to get a different answer for current every time I look16:00
diddledanwe all know electricity is like water (as they teach us in school) so if you make it downhill then the current will be higher at the lower end16:00
diddledan"think of a wire like a pipe carrying water"16:01
diddledanI need to put in an electricity header tank16:02
penguin42shauno: Hmm pi.org says 5v at 700ma, so what's that 3.5W each16:02
bigcalmdirecthex: latest HB worth getting? I see none of it is Linux though16:02
diddledandon't you hate when someone leaves a socket turned on so all the electricity starts running out all over the floor?16:02
shaunobigcalm: I've stopped buying them if they don't have a decent number on my platform.  it's the only way I could sooth the addiction16:03
bigcalm:)16:03
diddledanHB? hairy ....?16:03
diddledanbarmaid16:03
diddledanoh humble16:04
directhexbigcalm, great value for windows users16:04
diddledangotcha16:04
diddledanyeah if you're a windowite it's great16:04
bigcalmThe video doesn't tell you anything about the games sadly16:05
diddledanbigcalm: I think the expectation is that you'll have heard of them beforehand16:05
diddledanAAA titles mean everyone and his dog obviously knows what they are16:06
diddledan</sarcasm>16:06
diddledanI personally have no clue16:06
shaunowe've noticed ;)16:06
diddledanin other news, however, worms series is on the weekly sale16:06
diddledanshauno: you noticed me? sweet!16:07
* diddledan puts some lippy on16:07
shaunoor if you're a mac user .. "worms crazy golf is on the weekly sale"16:07
diddledanyeah. hunble seem to have lost their way in releasing windows-only titles16:08
diddledanhumble*16:08
diddledanI need a website wireframing app for mac or windows or linux or both mac and windows or all three16:09
shaunomy personal position atm; save your pennies for the steam thanksgiving sale :)16:10
bigcalmdiddledan: pencil in firefox16:10
=== mgdm_ is now known as mgdm
bigcalmI wish the Indiegogo site wasn't so slow. I'd be able to contribute if the site were to respond17:51
daftykinsd'aww17:52
bigcalmAt least I was able to register for an account this time17:53
bigcalmHuh, had to reload the site, making a little progress17:54
daftykinssome quirky browser cache lying dormant, or first time you've been there?17:54
bigcalm1st time17:54
bigcalmThe site is full of broken images. I think they have problems17:55
daftykinserk17:57
bigcalmOooo, didn't notice this before: This campaign will receive all funds raised even if it does not reach its goal18:02
daftykinswhat project is this?18:03
bigcalmThe only project that matters to people in this channel :P18:04
bigcalmhttp://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/530586318:04
penguin42popey: So they've got you down for destructive testing expert then?18:12
popeyor "clumsy oaf18:12
popeyyes18:12
penguin42popey: Yeh but it takes an expert to dislodge a soldered chip18:13
popeyits really twisted18:14
popeyyou can't really tell in the pic18:14
penguin42popey: is it the type of remote that gets activated by pressing it ?18:14
popeyuhm eh?18:14
penguin42popey: I can't actually tell what that thing is18:14
popeyits a remote control dongle18:14
popeyi.e. the remote is in your hand, its the receiver18:15
penguin42oh I see, that's just the receiver?18:15
popeyya18:15
popeywhich makes the remote useless18:15
penguin42do you think it got knocked or something while in the socket to bend it?  IMHO bending is more likely to cause a problem18:15
penguin42than dropping18:16
popeyno, i dropped the computer18:16
penguin42ah!18:16
popeyit landed on the usb stick18:16
popeywith the weight of the computer behind it18:16
penguin42oh that makes a lot more sense18:16
popeythe computer being an acer aspire revo18:16
popeywhich I was retrieving from behind the telly18:16
popeybadly18:16
penguin42popey: I like the track along the top18:16
czajkowskinice video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkjMLvWt2ME#t=39    and well done to the Fedora community18:18
popeyantenna18:19
MartijnVdShttp://www.micrela.nl/app/19:06
ali1234MartijnVdS: i don't understand how to answer "how many years have you spent learning english?"19:14
ali1234"all of them"19:14
ali1234but the maximum possible answer is 2519:14
ali1234somehow i managed to get the spinbox to display "NaN" - that will do19:15
mgdmheh19:15
MartijnVdSali1234: did you select English on the first page?19:16
mgdmuse the web developer tools to mess with the form19:16
ali1234yes19:16
mgdmoh, it's Flash19:18
MartijnVdSthey're Groningen university researchers19:20
MartijnVdStrying to figure out how mutually intelligible languages are19:20
AlanBellwoot, another pi and a pie and a pint perk taken :)19:28
penguin42AlanBell: You're going to have to find really excellent Pies for the people who paid up for that19:29
MartijnVdSAlanBell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbnaSjhn-1819:29
AlanBellpenguin42: actually mostly burgers where I was planning to take them, but rather fancy ones http://www.mulberryfarnham.co.uk/food.aspx19:33
penguin42AlanBell: Now hang on, those aren't Pies19:34
bigcalmAlanBell: Least amount of travel required by you :P19:34
MartijnVdSFalse promises!19:34
AlanBellbigcalm: yeah :)19:34
AlanBellI might have a hunt about for a more pie filled place19:35
MartijnVdSjust bake one.. or have your wife/kids bake one19:35
AlanBellbake kids in a pie . . . hmm19:35
bigcalmAlanBell: http://www.sweeneyandtodd.co.uk/ - if it's not too far away?19:36
ali1234AlanBell: "pie shop farnham" in google, this is the top hit: http://thesandrock.com/19:36
ali1234award winning pies, apparently19:36
bigcalmWhen there with Dave2 and christel. Good pies :D19:36
AlanBellooh, the sandrock, been there many many times (it is theopensourcerer's local pub)19:36
AlanBellnot had a pie there, but that is absolutely an option19:37
bigcalmNumbers are creeping up. Yay19:37
bigcalmAs you'll get the money no matter what (minus their fee), what can you do with £626?19:38
AlanBellthey are indeed, thanks bigcalm :)19:38
AlanBellwe can get several pis, and we can throw more money at it if we want to19:38
bigcalmQuick, somebody donate £4019:38
AlanBellbut I think we will probably meet the total by christmas19:39
bigcalmMeep19:39
bigcalmXmas is close19:39
AlanBell49 days left19:39
MyrttiI do like pie19:58
Myrttibut I don't know if I can justify that expensive pie19:58
mungbeangiffgaff flogging phones now19:59
Myrttireally?20:02
GentileBenMyrtti how are you finding your N5?20:11
GentileBenI've been all up in your grill about the N5 the last few days, and you don't respond.20:11
Myrttilove it20:11
GentileBenI've found the battery life to be pretty appaling.20:12
Myrttisorry, I do have employment nowadays :-P20:12
GentileBen*appalling20:12
GentileBenI took the SIM out of my N4 and it's on 80% after 21 hours...20:12
GentileBenSo I'm now 100% sure it's location services etc. which are killing my N5's battery.20:13
GentileBenAfter 21.5 hours, it's on 49%....and I've barely used it.20:13
GentileBenI've had maybe 10 minutes of screen on time today...20:13
GentileBen:[20:14
mungbeanhttp://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Blog/The-first-22-giffgaff-phone-range/ba-p/1041712720:14
mgdmthis made me laugh  more than is reasonable http://i.imgur.com/D5gWwBL.gif20:14
ali1234poonikins!20:14
MartijnVdSmgdm: what...? what?20:14
ali1234mgdm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt4p9A-U4Ko20:14
mgdmMartijnVdS: I have no idea either20:14
mgdmali1234: uhmm20:15
* MartijnVdS has fresh sugru!20:15
mungbeani need to put more sugru on my wellie boots20:15
mungbeanthe other side has split20:15
mungbeansoon they will be sugru boots20:15
mungbeani also put some on the shower handle to make it grippy20:15
MartijnVdSI've put some on my teapot to make it not scratch my wooden table20:16
mgdmali1234: the flying motorbike is brilliant20:16
penguin42MartijnVdS: Doesn't the temp of the tea soften it again?20:16
MartijnVdSpenguin42: no, it's stable up to oven temps20:16
MartijnVdSpenguin42: in the 180° range20:17
penguin42ah20:17
MartijnVdSmungbean: I've also replaced the lost rubber feet of my laptop with Sugru ones20:17
Myrttioh man20:18
MyrttiI'm suffocating into mmy own laughter20:18
Myrttioh dear20:18
Myrttiahhhh. ali1234, thank you20:18
mungbeanwhats that poonikins game?20:19
MartijnVdSmungbean: a h4x0red gta420:20
mungbeanreallly different from how i remember gta320:20
ali1234i think it's actually a game from the driver series20:20
ali1234based ont he title of the other vid20:20
ali1234definitely hacked anyway20:21
MartijnVdSali1234: but the voice is Niko Bellic from GTA 420:21
ali1234well, there you go then... never played that one20:21
mungbeanthe cars are not smooth like gta though, maybe because a horse is driving20:21
ali1234yeah there's a speedhack going on too20:22
mungbeanhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U8oarvfiO820:22
mungbeanx-wing going down the street20:22
mungbeanpoonikins is in it too20:23
mungbeanthere's an animals one with elephant and giraffe driving a car20:25
airurandogood evening.20:28
airurandohas anyone alink for the video stream?20:28
airurandowrong channel, sorry20:28
SuperMattjust did my first hlpout!20:29
directhexwhy do people spend so much time on modding GTA4 to make it be Saint's Row?20:29
MartijnVdSdirecthex: because they're poor and can't afford to buy both?20:31
AlanBellairurando: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZfD_hCi74w&feature=youtu.be20:32
SuperMattoh man, session two starting now20:33
SuperMattpeople are digging helpouts20:33
AlanBellcool SuperMatt :)20:35
SuperMattoh, number two is a no show20:35
SuperMattI don't know how long to give someone before cancelling on them20:36
SuperMattholy... I have a queue of people right now20:38
mungbeando u get paid?20:41
airurandothanks AlanBell20:41
SuperMattall right, I have 5 helpouts in the pipeline21:01
SuperMattdone two already21:01
MooDooyay just waiting for my helpout url21:02
Myrttiso21:02
MooDooso what?21:02
Myrttiwhat's the current recommended magic spell I need to do to get Ubuntu Touch on this phone?21:02
MooDooexpeliamus?21:03
Myrttiphablet-flash ubuntu-system something something?21:03
=== airurando1 is now known as airurando
popeyhttp://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install Myrtti21:08
popeybut yes, phablet-flash ubuntu-system -b -d mako21:08
Myrttipopey: yeah I'm reading that21:09
Myrtti-d mako?21:09
Myrttimaguro21:10
popeyoh sorry21:14
popeyyes21:14
Myrttithis is scary21:15
popey21:15
ali1234popey: how did you build glibc on your pi? just get the dsc and dpkg-buildpackage it?21:43
penguin42ali1234: Generally you should be able to build any package by getting it's source (apt-get source) installing build-dep (apt-get build-dep) and then building with dpkg-buildpackage21:46
ali1234yeah i know. i want to know how popey did it so i can try to do the same thing in qemu to compare the speed21:47
penguin42ali1234: Are you running qemu user or system emulation?21:48
ali1234system, with a raspbian image21:48
ali1234i suspect it will still take less than 11 hours :)21:49
penguin42nod, I'm betting it's probably a 20th or so of the speed of your host machine, so it might not be that wonderful21:49
ali1234there will be wins on disk speed though21:49
penguin42yeh21:49
ali1234even at a 20th it's still probably faster than the Pi CPU21:50
ali1234but we'll see...21:50
penguin42ali1234: Maybe - it might be a bit close; it's only a simplish emulator21:51
Myrttijebus that was scary21:54
penguin42ali1234: http://sentryytech.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/faster-compiling-on-emulated-raspberry.html   although note that bogomips is really an entirely stupid way of measuring emulator perf21:55
penguin42Myrtti: What was?21:55
SuperMattoh my gosh, that was absolutely amazing21:56
SuperMatthelpouts++21:56
ali1234penguin42: step A from that is what i'm doing now... then i'll try step B21:57
diddledanSuperMatt:?21:57
penguin42SuperMatt: is this video/audio ?21:57
SuperMattyup21:58
SuperMattI've done three helpouts already today21:58
diddledanwhat did you help with?21:59
Myrttiflashing my old Galaxy Nexus with Ubuntu Touch21:59
diddledanMyrtti: I might do that too21:59
Myrttiand then trying to find out if the data is disabled while roaming21:59
diddledannot the roaming bit21:59
diddledanI took delivery of shiny yesterday. a new nexus5 - I like the new kitkat taste22:00
SuperMattfirst was problems with grub, second was how to run mupen64, and third was how to set up a virtual host with wsgi for django22:00
MooDooSuperMatt: well thats not basic lol22:04
SuperMattI know!22:05
SuperMattbut it was still quite fun22:05
diddledanpenguin42: in relation to that article - plan b - I fail to see how architectural chroot can be any different in speed compared to full-on qemuing22:05
MooDoogood :D22:05
diddledanyou still need to emulate the cpu whichever way you do it22:05
ali1234diddledan: when you use qemu like that, all library calls are made to native libs22:05
ali1234so you run an arm gcc binary, and qemu relinks it to x86 libc22:06
ali1234not sure how that works when you're inside a chroot tbh22:06
penguin42diddledan: Because you don't need to emulate the MMU and the OS kernel, all the sys calls get done on the x86 side22:06
diddledanweird22:07
diddledanreally funky stuff then22:07
penguin42diddledan: qemu user land emulation turns a sys_write into an x86 sys_write and the x86 worries about filesystems etc22:07
diddledanclever22:07
ali1234yeah, kernel is still x86, even inside the chroot22:07
diddledanI suppose qemu-user marshalls the differences between little and big-endienness22:08
ali1234maybe, but nothing uses BE22:08
penguin42diddledan: It does but ARM is typically little anyway22:08
diddledanaah22:08
* diddledan petpet arm22:08
ali1234some weird mips devices, that's about it22:08
penguin42ali1234: actually it's more than that, ARM can do big - often does, PPC, the mainframes and some other stuff22:09
ali1234motorola 68000 was BE22:09
ali1234that's the last time i saw it anywhere22:09
* penguin42 throws one of his Sun 3/60's at ali1234 and goes to take a shower22:10
ali1234"it's called a 3/60 cos when you see it you do a 3/60 and then walk away"22:11
diddledanlol22:11
ali1234i think im gonna skip directly to plan B22:12
SuperMattanyone know of a good opensource pastebin alternative22:20
ali1234http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3909251/open-source-pastebin22:22
AlanBellthere are one or two in the repositories22:22
AlanBell"good" depends on your criteria22:22
SuperMattwhat's in the repos?22:22
AlanBellapt-cache search pastebin22:23
AlanBell!info pnopaste22:23
lubotu3pnopaste (source: pnopaste): Pastebin with syntax highlighting. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.4-5 (quantal), package size 17 kB, installed size 127 kB22:23
SuperMattI'll take a look at that, thanks22:23
ali1234apparently bash from raspbian has instructions qemu can't handle22:24
AlanBellmaybe that is the only one SuperMatt, I thought there were several but the other things appear to be pasting in tools22:24
SuperMattmight just write my own22:24
popeyali1234: i grabbed the 9.04 jaunty glibc and "debuild -uc -us"22:37
popeyafter apt-getting the build-dep22:37
ali1234hmm ok. i'm going to try with 13.10 glibc, because i'm lazy22:38
ali1234after i've fixed qemu that is22:38
penguin42what's it doing to you?22:43
popeyi could probably grab the 13.10 glibc and build that too22:43
popeywe should start them at the same time ☻22:43
popeymine will be building at 700Mhz on an SD card though ☻22:43
ali1234penguin42: it refuses to run the pi binaries basically22:56
ali1234invalid instruction exception22:56
ali1234ah there we go, fixed it23:02
penguin42what was up with it?23:03
ali1234the latest raspi image has this weird ld.so.preload which qemu doesn't like23:04
ali1234it was actually written in the first set of instructions i was looking at, but i didn't see it as they didn't tell the error you'd get if you skipped that part23:04
* popey is ready to start "time debuild -uc -us" on his pi with eglibc-2.1723:05
penguin42ali1234: you might want a export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS='parallel=10'  (for a 4 core machine) :-)23:06
ali1234ok :)23:07
popeyhaha23:07
ali1234i;m currently trying to install build deps23:07
AlanBellcheating!23:07
ali1234need a deb-src line23:07
penguin42just because your pi only has one core23:07
ali1234why didn't they include it?23:07
penguin42ali1234: deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu trusty restricted multiverse universe main23:08
ali1234nope23:08
penguin42ali1234: You might want to use something older than trusty23:08
ali1234actually, maybe23:08
ali1234hmm, /dev/pts not mounted... better fix that23:09
ali1234E: Build-Depends dependency for eglibc cannot be satisfied because candidate version of package g++-4.7 can't satisfy version requirements23:11
penguin42ali1234: Hmm so what chroot have you got installed?23:12
ali1234raspbian 2013-09-2523:12
penguin42ah well then I assume you've got to match the deb-src to that23:12
ali1234yeah23:12
ali1234but i want to build glibc from ubuntu, since that's the point23:12
ali1234although for a speed test i guess it does not matter23:12
popeyahh23:12
popeyi wont be able to build that either23:13
penguin42popey: What you building?23:13
popeysame23:13
popeyeglibc 2.17 on 9.423:13
popeyand I wont have gcc++-4.723:13
ali1234so looks like you'll be doing 12.04 first AlanBell, or something like that anyway, at least the toolchain23:13
penguin42ali1234: There are some boot strapping instructions somewhere - and anyway you can ignore the build-dep and hope for the best23:14
ali1234i'll try precise...23:14
ali1234nope, needs 4.6-multilib23:15
AlanBellali1234: ok23:15
AlanBellso can saucy be build from precise?23:15
ali1234should be able to yeah23:15
ali1234buy precise can't be built from raspbian - not without hackery for the bootstrap anyway23:16
ali1234really we should be building gcc in bootstrap mode first anyway :)23:16
AlanBelloh, do we have to start with jaunty and move up from there?23:16
ali1234i dunno, i'm not an expert in this stuff23:16
penguin42the linaro guys should have some bootstrapping instructions23:17
ali1234what's it called? oldrelease? old-releases?23:17
popeyalan@deep-thought:~/saucy/eglibc-2.17$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list23:18
popeydeb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jaunty main restricted23:18
popeydeb-src http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jaunty main restricted23:18
popeyI would start with raspian, use wheezy to make precise23:18
popeyand then use that to build up from there23:18
AlanBell23:16 < ali1234> buy precise can't be built from raspbian - not without hackery for the bootstrap anyway23:19
popeywhy?23:19
ali1234the build-deps are all wrong23:19
popeyoh i see23:19
penguin42ali1234: Have you tried ignoring them?23:19
ali1234not yet23:19
popeyjaunty is way to old to start from23:19
ali1234let's just ignore build deps then :)23:20
ali1234precise might work better - it is at least the sme general version of gcc (4.6)23:21
ali1234eglibc 2.15-0ubuntu1023:22
ali1234debuild: command not found23:30
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
ali1234devscripts really has a lot of silly dependencies23:37
penguin42ali1234: Yeh but you just install the packages and you're done23:40
ali1234it started up exim4...23:40
penguin42ali1234: Yeh that's just to send the notification to the NSA23:43
popeyheh23:43
AzelphurMy BTC value just topped $30k \o/23:45
* Azelphur awaits 6 digits23:45
ali1234according to what exchange?23:45
Azelphurali1234: gox, bitstamp is only $400 off though.23:45
ali1234hmm... it's getting warm in here23:51
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=== Guest13865 is now known as webpigeon

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