[01:28] <ball> Wish I had some fireworks.
[03:47] <ali1234> AlanBell: it can be done: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitcoin-dark-wallet
[03:48] <ali1234> also you can buy raspis for bitcoin on bitcoinin.com
[07:04] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:20] <shauno> http://www.muktware.com/2013/11/ubuntu-developers-start-indiegogo-campaign-raspberry-pi-build-cluster/15543   verdict is in; "not as ambitious as was the Ubuntu Edge"
[07:37] <Myrtti> shauno: lol, not "I have a brain"?
[07:41] <shauno> I thought it was nice to see :)  but they could have caught him at a better moment for a screengrab
[07:42] <Myrtti> it's always nice to see an Alan, but calling it "not as ambitious as Ubuntu Edge" is a bit of a... statement
[07:42] <Myrtti> I can't decide is it an under or overstatement
[07:44] <popey> 654 Minutes to build glibc on pi
[07:45] <shauno> that's not too bad
[07:46] <shauno> back when I was young/stupid enough to do linux-from-scratch on a regular basis, glibc was an allnighter  (and firefox/openoffice were measured in days)
[07:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: Yep. Me too.
[07:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's where I "cut my teeth" as it were
[07:48] <popey> \o/ spotify on my ubuntu phone
[07:48] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2013-11-06-074840.png
[07:48] <shauno> now, overclock the pi, make clean & try again?  curious to see what 700MHz vs 1GHz means in the real world ;)
[07:49] <popey> thats not a bad idea
[07:50] <Myrtti> oh I remember the days when I was still somewhat interested in hardware
[07:50] <Myrtti> back when AMD Thunderbird 750MHz was the latest hot new thing and I had to try to connect the pins with a pencil
[07:51] <Myrtti> but anyway, do go on
[07:56] <popey> haha, overclocked it to 950, crashed as soon as I give it any load at all
[07:57] <shauno> well, that's worth knowing too
[08:03]  * popey puts pi away
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> I appear to have lost my clock/calendar from the top bar in 13.10...
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Any ideas where it has gone?
[08:20] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Where you're going, you won't need clocks ;)
[08:21] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/45970/missing-date-time-from-top-panel-of-unity-desktop
[08:21] <popey> kill unity-panel-service
[08:21] <popey> known bug which I believe is fixed and is coming down the pipe
[08:22] <popey> bug 1199877 may be related
[08:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> That worked - thanks popey
[08:22] <popey> np
[08:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol - just did a apt-get update/dist-upgrade and the following updates look interesting "gnome-control-center-datetime indicator-datetime"
[08:29] <popey> ☻
[08:32] <SuperMatt> morning
[08:33] <MooDoo> morning SuperMatt popey
[09:27] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:28] <SuperMatt> morning calmy
[09:28] <MooDoo> mornin bigcalm
[09:32] <popey> yo yo yo
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> g'mornin everyone
[09:38] <MooDoo> morning MartijnVdS
[09:40] <SuperMatt> well, helpouts are already off to a shakey start
[09:41] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Stress Awareness Day!  :-D
[09:41] <SuperMatt> people requesting specific hardware advice, or "how to install and use nfs"
[09:41] <SuperMatt> I don't mind helping with the latter, at least getting started, but if your function buttons aren't working, better hit up askubuntu
[09:42] <jussi> JamesTait: do you have random 8 ball thing that spits out a day name for you? :P
[09:42] <JamesTait> jussi, oh no, nothing like that.  If I did that I'd have no idea what day it was myself!
[09:42] <JamesTait> jussi, I haz intarwebz!
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> \o/ intarwebs
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Thanks, now I'm aware of stress..
[09:44] <JamesTait> It's also Saxophone day, apparently.
[09:44] <JamesTait> So, http://youtu.be/2j7uAimpx3k?t=25s
[09:44] <Myrtti> is it? is it?
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: not Careless Whisper?
[09:45] <mungbean> baker st?
[09:45] <mungbean> pink panther?
[09:45] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, or a rickroll?
[09:45] <mungbean> the song from taxi driver?
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: not on saxophone
[09:46] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, clearly you still have much to learn. ;)
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> nah I just have a proper music taste ;)
[09:46] <Myrtti> ok, that's better than epic sax guy
[09:47] <Myrtti> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy1B3agGNxw
[09:47] <Myrtti> aka https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxopViU98Xo
[09:47] <mungbean> it was baker st!
[09:47] <mungbean> good guess
[09:47] <JamesTait> That appears to be some kind of mutated violin.
[09:48] <JamesTait> Oh.  Oh dear.
[09:48] <JamesTait> mungbean gets the prize!
[09:49] <JamesTait> * see MartijnVdS for details.
[09:49] <mungbean> my deb file is 6k. i think something went wrong
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's just very easy to compress
[09:50] <mungbean> getting cheesed off with this :(
[09:50] <mungbean> seems like unecessarily complex
[09:50] <bigcalm> czajkowski: is this in your future? https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7874504192/h59789D87/
[09:54] <MooDoo> lo
[09:54] <MooDoo> l]
[10:14] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:19] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[10:19] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[10:33] <SuperMatt> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/11/05/2337257/robots-can-learn-to-hold-knives-and-not-stab-humans researchers at Cornell are teaching robots how to not stab people
[10:33] <SuperMatt> I think this is very important research
[10:35] <diddledan> SuperMatt: they're not self-aware yet though
[10:37] <SuperMatt> http://signup.bribe.io/
[10:37] <SuperMatt> bribe devs into fixing a bug
[10:40] <diddledan> lol
[10:41] <MartijnVdS> So it's the old "bug bounty" system that didn't work then?
[10:41] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: I think it's a bit wider than a single project's bounty programme
[10:51] <bigcalm> Surprised that this tweet is still getting favourites and retweets https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/303095108872585216/photo/1
[10:52] <SuperMatt> is that on one or two graphics cards?
[10:52] <bigcalm> SuperMatt: one
[10:52] <SuperMatt> dang
[10:52] <bigcalm> 2 x DVI, 1 x HDMI
[10:52] <SuperMatt> I've never managed to get it working on two
[10:52] <MooDoo> nice :)
[10:53] <bigcalm> For reference, this is a follow up post: http://www.myrant.net/2013/02/17/multi-screen-with-ubuntu-unity/
[10:53] <DJones> Anybody going to try for this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24828750 I'm somewhat past the the age it mentions
[10:54] <SuperMatt> man, that would be nice
[10:54] <SuperMatt> but I cba
[10:54] <bigcalm> Can you act?
[10:55] <SuperMatt> yes
[10:55] <SuperMatt> I've done a lot of it
[10:55] <DJones> bigcalm: What does being able to act have to do with being in movies, Jean Claude Van Damm.... I rest my case :)
[10:55] <bigcalm> Fnar
[10:55] <mungbean> bzr builddeb -S fails with  clearsign failed: secret key not available
[10:55] <mungbean> any suggestions?
[10:56] <mungbean> i have a gpg key i want to use
[10:56] <bigcalm> DJones: I love his beer adverts
[10:56] <DJones> bigcalm: The adverts are ok, but the beer is awful, and I have to say he hasn't aged well
[10:58] <bigcalm> I'm not a fan of such beers myself
[10:58] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:58] <bigcalm> Hi davmor2
[10:58] <MooDoo> moring davmor2
[10:58] <DJones> Morningt davmor2
[10:59] <davmor2> How's Mrs bigcalm ?
[11:00] <bigcalm> davmor2: struggling with the new surname
[11:01] <davmor2> bigcalm: has Hayley gone through the million and one signatures to figure out which she likes yet
[11:01] <bigcalm> davmor2: the 1st time she tried her new signature was when we went to the bank to change her name there
[11:03] <davmor2> bigcalm: haha
[11:03] <davmor2> MooDoo: Had a look at some of those Photo's chap, some of them looked really funky, nice one :)
[11:04] <MooDoo> davmor2: which photos?
[11:05] <davmor2> MooDoo: I got an email from Flikr or off facebook pointing at your recent Photos,   Mixture of kids by a lake, some scenery shoots etc
[11:06] <davmor2> MooDoo: let me have a dig and I'll find the link
[11:07] <MooDoo> davmor2: http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulmellorsphotography/sets/72157635062528102/ this lot?
[11:08] <davmor2> MooDoo: that's the ones
[11:08] <MooDoo> davmor2: yeah thanks, friend wanted some family pictures.
[11:10] <mungbean> can anyone help with my question up there ^^
[11:13] <SuperMatt> mungbean: alas, I cannot
[11:13] <davmor2> mungbean: I don't know what the question is without digging in irssi
[11:13] <mungbean>  bzr builddeb -S fails with  clearsign failed: secret key not available
[11:14] <mungbean> OH
[11:14] <mungbean> it works
[11:14] <SuperMatt> \o/
[11:14] <SuperMatt> well done
[11:14] <SuperMatt> pebkac fixed
[11:14] <mungbean> i changed debian/changelog to be the exact phrase outpuuted by gpg --list-keys
[11:14] <davmor2> mungbean: liar liar pants on fire :P
[11:14] <popey> ʘ‿ಠ
[11:15] <mungbean> which bit ?
[11:15] <davmor2> mungbean: yes shockingly it does expect your exact key to be there :)
[11:15] <mungbean> yes but even the comment (Launchpad signing key)
[11:15] <mungbean> had to be present
[11:16] <mungbean> i thought the env variables should be sufficient
[11:16] <davmor2> mungbean: daft question but you did do bzr launchpad-login and bzr whoami right?
[11:17] <mungbean> yesh
[11:17] <mungbean> this is mega tedious
[11:17] <mungbean> and has put me off the whole thing :(
[11:17] <davmor2> mungbean: and your key is available in LP right?  Cause that's all I've ever needed
[11:17] <popey> which guide are you following?
[11:18] <popey> seems way more complex than I'd do
[11:18] <mungbean> i have 50 tabs open, mostly on ubuntu.com
[11:18] <mungbean> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/packaging-new-software.html
[11:19] <mungbean> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/getting-set-up.html
[11:19] <mungbean> etc
[11:19] <popey> but you're not packaging something new are you?
[11:19] <popey> you're just rebuilding something existing for another release?
[11:20] <mungbean> i'm not rebuilding a saucy version though
[11:20] <mungbean> i'm doing a newer version
[11:20] <popey> a new upstream version?
[11:20] <mungbean> i haven't found documents that suggest any easier way
[11:20] <mungbean> popey: yes
[11:21] <popey> well the super easy way is to file a bug and get someone else to do it ㋛
[11:21] <mungbean> i thought this might be a useful exercise
[11:21] <mungbean> didn't quite realise what was involved
[11:22] <popey> I probably wouldn't have done it the way you did, but there's always multiple ways to skin a cat
[11:23] <penguin42> mungbean: The changelog formats are very very fussy for every part of them
[11:23] <popey> file a bug to get 1.10.1 in trusty, and then request backport to saucy/raring/precise etc
[11:24] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/75352/how-to-request-a-package-upgrade-in-the-next-ubuntu-release
[11:24] <mungbean> ok, feels like defeat but meh
[11:24] <mungbean> at least i have the deb file for the meantine
[11:25] <mungbean> cheesr
[11:25] <popey> other people benefit from this though
[11:25] <mungbean> yep, if it gets done - is it usually successful>
[11:25] <popey> in fact
[11:25] <popey> just needs sync from debian
[11:26] <popey> as sid has 1.10.3
[11:26] <popey> (you probably could have grabbed the deb from http://packages.debian.org/sid/liferea
[11:27] <popey> alan@deep-thought:~/Downloads$ liferea -v
[11:27] <popey> Liferea 1.10.3
[11:27] <popey> done
[11:27] <popey> ☻
[11:29] <mungbean> isn't that considered "bad"
[11:30] <GentileBen> Myrtti I got my N5. How's your battery life been?
[11:30] <Myrtti> it's better than my Galaxy Nexus
[11:31] <mungbean> there's lots of ways to get the app, but thought i would learn the PPA thing as an exercise, just didn't realise how complex it was
[11:31] <popey> yeah, as I said, multiple ways to skin cat
[11:32] <mungbean> think i just did them all
[11:32] <mungbean> only bones left now
[11:32] <Myrtti> just got the Spigen champagne case for the phone
[11:32] <Myrtti> looks surprisingly posh
[11:33] <popey> Laney: is it possible to "requestsync" but say you want to keep the ubuntu changes?
[11:33] <Laney> sync means you want to drop them
[11:33] <Laney> so, no
[11:33] <popey> because it seems by default it assumes I want to sync from debian and overwrite..
[11:33] <popey> right
[11:34] <Laney> what's wanted here is a merge
[11:36] <mungbean> FYI the debian one don't work without a bunch of deps
[11:36] <popey> works here
[11:36] <popey> (on saucy)
[11:36] <mungbean> later version of libglib etc
[11:36] <mungbean> precise
[11:37] <Laney> grim
[11:37] <Laney> you'll want to try rebuilding it
[11:37] <popey> right, it would get rebuilt during backporting
[11:37] <popey> ?
[11:37] <Laney> assuming it doesn't need any new dependency versions that you don't have in precise
[11:38] <mungbean> my locally built one works
[11:39] <mungbean> i.e. copying the deb from my precise build box
[11:39] <davmor2> Myrtti: did you put UT on your galaxy nexus yet?
[11:39] <mungbean> and install works on a clean machine
[11:39] <mungbean> after all that, dilbert RSS feed has stopped working :(
[11:40] <Myrtti> davmor2: nope, D had to go to work at six today so he had to go to bed so early we managed to barely eat a tinned soup before bedtime after he came home from work
[11:40] <Myrtti> maybe today
[11:40] <Myrtti> I'm apparently going to be the guinea pig
[11:40] <popey> \o/ soup
[11:40] <Myrtti> if it works fine for me, he's going to do it on his aswell
[11:41] <davmor2> Myrtti: \o/ for having a job, \o/ for soup, boo for the getting up tw'early and \o/ for putting UT on tonight :)
[11:41] <Myrtti> what I really want is a Ubuntu themed cover for GN
[11:42] <Myrtti> I hope the merchandise guys act on my suggestion soonish :-P
[11:43] <davmor2> Myrtti: http://www.zazzle.co.uk/pink_purple_galaxy_glitter_girly_nebula_stars_case-179799598640136588 :)
[11:43] <Myrtti> oy
[11:44] <Myrtti> gawds
[11:44] <bigcalm> That looks nice
[11:44] <Myrtti> zebus
[11:44] <davmor2> Myrtti: http://www.maniacstore.com/Belkin-Essential-063-for-GALAXY-Nexus-Purple-Lightning-Paparazzi-Pink-F8M279qeC00.html this is better though
[11:44] <ikonia> anyone know of any good UK shops/sites doing good deals on lower power "green" hard disks at the moment ?
[11:45] <bigcalm> That reminds me that I need to replace the HDDs in my Father's and wife's laptops with SSDs
[11:45] <davmor2> Myrtti: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/522532589/Wallet_Leather_Case_Cover_with_Strap.html  there is a purple and orange one
[11:46] <bigcalm> Weeeee. Referring to my wife is fun :)
[11:46] <Myrtti> davmor2: I've got two purple cases already, but I want something Ubuntu specific, by the same people
[11:46] <davmor2> Myrtti: you're no fun ;)
[11:46] <Myrtti> davmor2: besides, I'm not going to order 100 of them
[11:46] <Myrtti> no matter how nice the alibaba one looks like
[11:47] <bigcalm> The Velcro on my neoprene sleeve has worn out. Might be time for a new case (or phone?)
[11:47] <davmor2> Myrtti: it does look nice doesn't it :)
[12:10] <MooDoo> just sharing the information about the raspeerry pi cluster indigo project, looks interesting :D
[12:17] <mungbean> is there any news on the next rpi?
[12:25] <popey> i hear rumour it may do power over ethernet would would be neat
[12:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> Lots of peeps asked for that for RPi 1.0 ;-) Myself included.
[12:28] <ikonia> popey: I read that had been dropped due to cost, they are trying to not change the cost
[12:28] <ikonia> dropped as in dropped as a possibility
[12:29] <popey> bummer
[12:29] <popey> be nice if they choose a more modern arm rev
[12:29] <ikonia> I thought that was going to get bumped ?
[12:30] <popey> no idea
[12:33] <penguin42> popey: They'll have fun if they change *anything* keeping it compatible with existing Pi installs, and one of the nice things about Pi is being able to take the images anywhere
[12:34] <ikonia> penguin42: that's an interesting point,
[12:37] <BigRedS> PoE would rather break the educational model unless it's an option alongside traditional power...
[12:37] <popey> true
[12:38] <popey> wonder if they will keep the form factor identical and just rev the speed / chip
[12:38] <penguin42> BigRedS: Yeh it should be easy to make it either, although PoE injectors are pretty cheap
[12:39] <MartijnVdS> not every PoE injector uses the standard though
[12:39] <BigRedS> penguin42: yeah, but a PoE injector is still a weird thing to expect someone to get/have at home.
[12:39] <penguin42> nod
[12:39] <BigRedS> that said, I'm still surprised they used HDMI rather than VGA so perhaps I'm mischaracterising the sort of people they're aiming at
[12:40] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: every TV from that last 5-10 years has HDMI
[12:40] <penguin42> BigRedS: But these days most people have HDMI TVs even if they don't have it on monitors
[12:40] <popey> i think they were of the opinion that hdmi is pretty common now
[12:40] <BigRedS> yeah, it probably is
[12:41] <penguin42> BigRedS: And schools being able to use it on TVs is probably a more important consideration than those who already have monitors
[12:42] <BigRedS> penguin42: yeah, I expected VGA to be more common on TVs than HDMI, which is probably where I went most wrong :)
[12:42] <BigRedS> I don't really pay attention to TVs
[12:42] <BigRedS> Thinking about it, I guess consoles are all HDMI now, and probably have been for some time
[12:43] <MartijnVdS> XBox360 and PS3 have HDMI, yes
[12:43] <MartijnVdS> though they can do analog (except not everything, and not in HD)
[12:47] <mungbean> anyone tried a pi over the analog out onto a tv?
[12:47] <mungbean> fonts must be hard to read
[12:48] <penguin42> mungbean: Well that's the way I was using computers in the 80s
[12:48] <popey> ditto ☻
[12:48] <popey> 40x24
[12:48] <penguin42> 80x25
[12:48] <mungbean> mode 3? hardcore
[12:48] <penguin42> Mode 0
[12:49] <penguin42> I can't remember - there was a mode on the Arc that was 130 chars wasn't there?
[12:49] <mungbean> 40 x 25 chars, 4 colours
[12:49] <mungbean> ^^ mode 0 Bbeeeb
[12:49] <mungbean> hmm
[12:49] <mungbean> thats wrong. mode0 was the really hard to read one
[12:49] <penguin42> yeh mode 0 was 80x25 b&w
[12:49] <penguin42> mode 1 was 40x25 4 colours
[12:50] <mungbean> so if you're using 80x25 on a pi,. the world hasn't moved on much
[12:52] <dwatkins> Oracle's sign-up page is an utter travesty.
[12:53] <penguin42> mungbean: If you want to push it you can try interleave but that's pretty crapy
[12:53] <shauno> it's meant to be.  it's a harbinger.
[12:55] <dwatkins> shauno: you're not wrong - the first page after signing up (which took several attempts due to the page's idiotic requirements) showed "System error. Please re-try your action. If you continue to get this error, please contact the Administrator."
[12:55]  * dwatkins has at least learned that virtual installations of debian require more than 4 GB of disk space
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> even minimal ones?
[12:56] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: it works fine until you use tasksel to install anything but the base system (i.e. desktop install fails)
[12:56] <dwatkins> The error is just "something failed", but I'm pretty sure it simply didn't have enough room
[12:57] <dwatkins> Where does dpkg even log this, though? It's not in /var/log
[12:58] <popey>  /var/log/installer
[12:58] <dwatkins> cheers popey, will tail -f it
[12:58] <shauno> better question is why doesn't it fail gracefully .. you can't trust logs when the disk's full
[12:59] <dwatkins> my point exactly, shauno
[13:00] <Myrtti> ooh ooh
[13:00] <Myrtti> I hadn't realised new version of Trigger can actually make the phone connect to a right bluetooth device
[13:01]  * Myrtti goes on to a NFC frenzy
[13:01] <shauno> I wonder how far under 4GB debian would go though.  I have an ubuntu install in <300Mb
[13:02] <penguin42> I'd be surprised if you can't get Debian at least that small; I mean I've done it years ago
[13:02] <penguin42> and I'm fairly sure a debootstrap world is pretty small
[13:03] <mungbean> people are complaining there's a news blackout on a few people outside parliament in guy fawkes masks.
[13:04] <mungbean> i'm pretty sure only 1% of demonstrations get reported
[13:04] <dwatkins> Last time I was there, there were people camped out in front of parliament who had been there for weeks.
[13:04] <AlanBell> would it be this news that was blacked out? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24830123
[13:04] <BigRedS> Are the Catholics getting uppity again?
[13:05] <BigRedS> those aren't guy fawkes masks, are they?
[13:06] <mungbean> what are they?
[13:06] <mungbean> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_mask
[13:09] <dwatkins> presumably the one from V for Vendetta
[13:16] <mungbean> fawkes wasn't burned at teh stake though
[13:16] <BigRedS> oh right, I thought it was invented for V from Vendetta
[13:17] <mungbean> tbh it would have been more pleasant to do so than what happened to him
[13:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5292412 Almost 15% of the way there already :-D
[13:18] <MooDoo> yeah going to donate later this evening :D
[13:18] <mungbean> somebody who isn't alan paid £150 for a beer with the alans?
[13:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[13:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> And we'd buy her a beer anyway ;-)
[13:19] <MartijnVdS> I've already given the Alans beer 8-)
[13:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> You have indeed. And we have already drunk it :-D
[13:23] <mungbean> i gave alan my beer voucher from oggcamp once
[13:23] <mungbean> that counts as buying alan a beer
[13:23] <mungbean> i think he gave it to someone else
[13:24] <bigcalm> Alans: where is there good pie in Farnham? My experience stops at the pub next to the station :D
[13:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Pie?
[13:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm.
[13:25] <bigcalm> Pie
[13:25] <mungbean> ye olde pie shoppe?
[13:25] <jussi> ooh, pie!!
[13:25] <bigcalm> If I can be assured of good pie, I will donate to the Pi, Pie & Pint level
[13:25] <mungbean> when i win the lottery i don't play i will open a shop split into 3 sections.
[13:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> I am not sure we do pies in Farnham... It's a bit posh for that.
[13:25] <mungbean> section 1 airfix models, section 2 pie and ale, section 3 wool for the missis
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> Farnham - Too Posh for Pie
[13:26]  * jussi grumbles at Finnish "meat pies"
[13:26] <MooDoo> pie - 3.14 flavoured
[13:26] <mungbean> i just ate some pie
[13:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> We do have the "Home of the Gourmet Burger" opposite our office - and they are rather lovely. :-D
[13:26] <mungbean> but it was fruit pie covered in custard
[13:28] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: I had the ribs the last time I was in there. It was rather large
[13:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> Jolly dee.
[13:30] <dwatkins> I used to work opposite a rather good curry house, you could smell them preparing sauces from about 11am each day - as you can imagine, we gave-in to temptation at least once a week and had lunch there.
[13:31] <bigcalm> http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/pre_rat_ribs.jpg
[13:31] <bigcalm> That's what you missed out on by going to Italy :P
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> rat ribs
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> now there's something I wouldn't eat
[13:32] <bigcalm> !rat
[13:32] <dwatkins> I was expecting one of Cut-me-own-throat Dibbler's pies, from the URL, bigcalm
[13:32] <bigcalm> Humm, needs updating
[13:32] <mungbean> not knowingly MartijnVdS
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: but these were pre-rats? :)
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> uh
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm:
[13:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - CMOT Dibbler...
[13:34] <bigcalm> The dates are available for next year's RAT. Are we ready to organise and choose a date? :) http://www.watercressline.co.uk/product.php/10/real-ale-train-r-a-t
[13:34] <BigRedS> Oh, I should try to make this one
[13:34] <bigcalm> Everybody should :D
[13:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> All my hosts are named after Discworld characters. I did have Gaspode
[13:35] <bigcalm> discworld is our network at home :)
[13:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> I am typing this on hrun
[13:35] <bigcalm> As chosen by Hayley!
[13:35] <mungbean> mine are after WWII fighters
[13:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> my desktop at home is lobsang
[13:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Wife's is Binky, kids' Twoflower, home server Vimes.
[13:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Netbook Magrat
[13:36] <bigcalm> My last desktop was SNAFU. My current desktop is SNAFU2...
[13:36] <popey> \o/ deep-thought
[13:36] <popey> (and wopr)
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> mine are just "martijn-desktop", "martijn-vaio", etc.
[13:36] <mungbean> lol
[13:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> Great imagination there MartijnVdS
[13:37] <MartijnVdS> And my wifi network could be translated as "Airing out the bits"
[13:37] <penguin42> popey: No 'earth' ?
[13:38] <popey> not yet
[13:38] <popey> maybe another one will
[13:45] <bigcalm> An error occurred while processing your request.
[13:45] <bigcalm> Reference #97.a102adc6.1383745485.b8cefeb
[13:45] <bigcalm> Indeegogo fail :(
[13:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh :-(
[13:45] <bigcalm> While registering for an account that is
[13:47] <bigcalm> Your Amazon.co.uk order of "Genuine Official MOGA Pro..." has been dispatched
[13:47] <bigcalm> That's an email subject that I like to see
[13:47] <bigcalm> Sadly it's due to arrive while I'm out of town
[13:48] <popey> when is GTA5 out?
[13:48] <popey> WANT
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> popey: PS3 or Xbox? :)
[13:48] <popey> shut up MartijnVdS
[13:48] <popey> saw that coming
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> popey: too easy
[13:49] <bigcalm> popey: I'm getting the above controller so that I can play GTA Vice City more comfortably on my tablet & phone.
[13:50] <popey> I have an Xbox 360 controller
[13:50] <bigcalm> popey: I've even managed to install the game on my TV stick, though not been able to play it due to lack of sensible interface
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> popey: steam can use those, in "Big Picture" mode, never tried it though
[13:50] <popey> indeed
[13:50] <popey> i have in a few games
[13:50] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I use my xbox 360 controller with steam outside of big picture mode
[13:51] <shauno> I have a db9 to usb adaptor for my konix :)
[13:51] <bigcalm> Oh, I hadn't thought of trying my xbox controller with the tv stick. Oops :)
[13:54] <diddledan> surely there are more appropriate systems to build for the pi than the pi itself - re: the indiegogo campaign for a pi build cluster
[13:54] <bigcalm> Needs to be on the arm chip
[13:54] <diddledan> really?
[13:54] <shauno> needs to be interesting and geekworthy
[13:55] <diddledan> that one I'll concede
[13:55] <shauno> lets face it.  cross compiling is boring
[13:55]  * bigcalm forgot about cross compiling
[13:55] <bigcalm> I'd go with interesting and geeky
[13:55] <diddledan> I need food
[13:56] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh I keep saying that, a couple of Wand boards (i.mx6 quad core Cortex-A9's) would probably send the Pis packing
[13:56] <penguin42> (and are still ARMs)
[13:56] <AlanBell> true enough
[13:57] <AlanBell> however, nobody has done that
[14:01] <shauno> I think it sounds fun.  it might not be the most sensible path from A to B, but who ever wanted to be sensible if/when they grow up
[14:01] <jussi> the apc.io isnt a bad board also
[14:03] <Myrtti> either
[14:03] <penguin42> jussi: boring CPU
[14:03] <jussi> penguin42: even the rock one?
[14:04] <penguin42> jussi: 800MHz via ? Yes
[14:04] <penguin42> jussi: Oh Rock, hmm still boring - 800MHz single core? A9
[14:05] <shauno> for the price of two pi  (a tau?)
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> Raspberry Tau?
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> dual-core pi
[14:05] <dwatkins> Two node cluster?
[14:08] <diddledan> gotta love the geekiness of knowing the term tau in relation to pi
[14:09] <shauno> today just isn't a productive day.  I'm replacing 'earthing' with 'earthling' in a bunch of electrical trainings
[14:10] <diddledan> erm, shauno , is that the right way about?
[14:10] <shauno> :D
[14:10] <MartijnVdS> only if you're not grounded in reality
[14:11] <diddledan> "ensure your pipes are well bonded with an earthling"
[14:12] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/networking/bonding.txt
[14:13] <AlanBell> shauno: I am tempted to add a tau perk :)
[14:13] <diddledan> AlanBell: do it
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> \o/ http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/a/640993693
[14:16] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: is that over wireless?
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: 4G
[14:16] <diddledan> yeah, that's what I meant ;-p
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: in the middle of Amsterdam
[14:17] <diddledan> I totally love the idea of hamster jam
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: Hamster dance?
[14:19] <penguin42> diddledan: I'm not sure the fur would be that good
[14:19] <diddledan> penguin42: you'd take the fur off first
[14:19] <diddledan> penguin42: and remove the boney bits
[14:21] <penguin42> diddledan: Still, not much pectin in a hamster - unless you let it gorge on berrys before hand, but then that might be erm messy
[14:23] <AlanBell> diddledan: shauno: by popular demand we now have a tau perk
[14:24] <diddledan> yey
[14:28] <popey> "popular"
[14:28] <AlanBell> >1
[14:28]  * AlanBell has low standards
[14:59] <aquarius> popey, AlanBell, did you see slangasek's g+ comment about getting some time from calxeda or someone to build Ubuntu for raspi, rather than making a raspi build farm?
[14:59] <popey> hah, no.
[15:01] <AlanBell> everyone has a better idea :)
[15:01] <aquarius> I think it was on soeone's reshare of a post about it
[15:01] <aquarius> g+ will not let me show all comments by a person, irritatingly, which I want to do about five times a da
[15:02] <AlanBell> "I am doing foo" "no!, don't do foo, do bar instead, which you are not doing and neither am I"
[15:02] <AlanBell> but yeah, a calxeda box would be nice as a build farm
[15:03] <aquarius> ahaha!
[15:03] <aquarius> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JorgeCastro/posts/eUqxKMm1TTx
[15:04] <aquarius> I have no knowledge about whether that's good advice or not, but it's from slangasek who is pretty smart :)
[15:05] <AlanBell> it is good advice, if you don't take into account all the parameters
[15:05] <AlanBell> including the non-technical ones
[15:05] <dwatkins> Clusters of multiple x86 nodes for running scientific etc. applications are rather expensive, so it makes sense to build them out of cheap Raspberry Pi machines to test MPI etc. code on.
[15:06] <dwatkins> I'm not sure Ubuntu is the right distro for a cluster node, however, perhaps Ubuntu Server.
[15:06] <AlanBell> which is the same thing
[15:06] <popey> the calxeda box is arm
[15:06] <popey> a monster multi cpu arm box
[15:06] <dwatkins> ah ok, whatever is headless and has no GUI.
[15:06] <AlanBell> yeah, calxeda was the thing martinbogo was working on
[15:07] <dwatkins> I used to support SLES and RHEL clusters, the most difficult part is getting the automated installation stuff working seamlessly.
[15:08] <dwatkins> We used bittorrent to distribute the disk image to each node, which was fun.
[15:08] <shauno> it's a shame the pi doesn't do netbooting
[15:09] <dwatkins> Can't you bootstrap it at-all with a custom SD card?
[15:09] <AlanBell> it can with a small SD card to get it started
[15:10] <AlanBell> you can also boot from USB that way (which won't be much better than SD card)
[15:10] <dwatkins> at least if you can boot off the network you can manage the OS installations from a central server.
[15:10] <AlanBell> or clone SD cards and shove em in
[15:11] <MartijnVdS> but that's manual labour
[15:11] <dwatkins> true, but that requires physical access of course.
[15:11] <AlanBell> yup
[15:11] <dwatkins> for Raspberry Pi based systems, I imagine manually swapping SD cards isn't much of an issue, bot for a 4096 cluster, automation is best ;)
[15:11] <dwatkins> *node
[15:12] <penguin42> AlanBell: If you can boot from USB then boot from a PC via a powered, switchable hub then you can individually reboot them
[15:12] <AlanBell> or take the google approach and let them die
[15:13] <dwatkins> let what die, AlanBell?
[15:13] <AlanBell> google don't do much with dead units in their datacentre, they don't take them out if they stop working
[15:14] <dwatkins> oh right, I was just thinking of reinstalling for whatever reason, but yes
[15:14] <mgdm> automation is best always
[15:14]  * mgdm automates all the things
[15:14] <dwatkins> indeed, mgdm - if you have to do something more than once, it's probably worth automating.
[15:20] <penguin42> AlanBell: I assume they do when they get to a certain density of dead ones, i.e. enough for someone to bother going over and dealing with
[15:21] <MartijnVdS> "Hm, this data centre is down to 50%. Time to start replacing."
[15:22] <AlanBell> penguin42: I think they turn off and scrap columns of them when they are obsolete
[15:22] <AlanBell> and they put the UPS on the low voltage side of the transformer
[15:23] <MartijnVdS> that way, you don't need to do weird things to match the phase
[15:23] <AlanBell> UPS is full of weird
[15:25] <shauno> I've a feeling they pay more attention to dead nodes than popular legend betrays.  they did that whole paper on failure modes/trends in disk drives, which betrays a bit more post-mortem than throwing cold racks out the window
[15:25] <BigRedS> Most DC's UPS seems to be more an excercise in inefficiency than anything else
[15:25] <BigRedS> I don't understand why every server must have a transformer and rectifier in it
[15:26] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: AC*, right?
[15:26] <penguin42> BigRedS: Well some places do 48v - but it's pretty rare
[15:26] <mgdm> I've wondered the same
[15:26] <shauno> 48V tends to be telcomms
[15:26] <penguin42> shauno: Yeh but you can get some servers with 48v PSUs
[15:26] <AlanBell> lets take this 12v and ramp it up to 240v and make it AC and line up the phases so that we can transform it back to 12v
[15:27] <penguin42> problem is 1) it's not very common 2) I think it's more pricey 3) I'm scared of high current stuff all over 4) high current DC is supposedly a higher fire risk
[15:27] <shauno> most places don't do DC because it's a lot less efficient than it sounds.  low DC over a long run gives you substantial voltage drops due to resistance
[15:27] <mgdm> I heard of someone (Facebook, I think?) doing the AC->DC conversion in the rack
[15:27] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: DC as in Datacentres :)
[15:27] <mgdm> to get around that
[15:27] <penguin42> yeh per rack seems reasonable
[15:28] <BigRedS> shauno: there's not that much volt drop in the height of a rack
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> Voltage drop doesn't depend on altitude ;)
[15:28] <BigRedS> but it's a drop!
[15:29] <shauno> if you've only got a rack to worry about, you're probably not nickle&diming your power consumption :p
[15:29] <BigRedS> however much you've got it's probably in racks
[15:29] <BigRedS> and plugging a rack into AC rather than a rack full of machines would seem to make more sense
[15:29] <BigRedS> but for the fact that servers expect 240V AC in
[15:29] <penguin42> BigRedS: You mean in half the height of a rack....
[15:30] <penguin42> shauno: Opposite, if you've got a rack to worry about you're worried about total power input and cooling; it kind of gets scary when you've got say 10kW+ going into one
[15:30] <BigRedS> penguin42: yeah, better, but that's another thing people seem to like getting wrong about racks
[15:31] <BigRedS> not thinking about where in the rack to put them. I used to keep seeing a rack where the top half is patch panels and the bottom half is switches which made no sense to me
[15:31] <shauno> sticking a battery in each rack seems like it'd only suit certain loads too
[15:32] <penguin42> BigRedS: Ahem, yes I once designed a set like that - was a really bad decision - all the cables hang over your switches
[15:34] <penguin42> shauno: Why?
[15:34] <shauno> it kinda assumes your load is the same across every rack
[15:35] <shauno> else your compute nodes exhaust the battery long before the network core, and you've got a nice shiney network supporting nothing
[15:36] <penguin42> shauno: assuming your networking is in the same rack, anyway most DC UPSs are only designed to last 5mins on the laughable hope the generator will start in that time or that it was only a power blip
[15:36] <shauno> heh, in the hope that someone tested the genny in the last 6 months ..
[15:36] <penguin42> they always find impressive ways to fail
[15:37] <mgdm> I heard of one where they tested it every 3mo
[15:37] <mgdm> but forgot to buy fuel for it
[15:37] <mgdm> so when it was required, it lasted about 3 minutes
[15:37] <shauno> I Think the main catch is that there's no one answer that suits everyone.  it's neat that facebook, google, etc are coming up with some fresh ideas.  but just because something works at google's scale, doesn't mean it'd work at yours
[15:38] <penguin42> I used one DC where there was a breaker before the UPS; a lightning strike kicked the breaker so the UPS started taking it rather than the mains, but since the power was still going in the generator didn't bother to start
[15:39] <penguin42> shauno: And there are solutions for everyone; big UPSs that sit in the corner, rack scale ones, even PSU shaped ones you can replace PSUs in some servers with
[15:39] <shauno> I mean, it's not the end of the world if google's datacenter goes down.  they have spare datacenters.  I don't  lol
[15:39] <penguin42> nod
[15:39] <penguin42> http://www.supermicro.nl/products/nfo/BBP.cfm  do look neat
[15:40] <shauno> amazon still stick one big ups on the end of each row.  and microsoft are still going for the pod/container scheme that sun got bored of
[15:42] <penguin42> shauno: Anyway, it's a lot easier to leave the big data centre guys to the guys building data centres and just buy a cage in one
[15:43] <diddledan> I want a cage
[15:43] <diddledan> how much do they cost? /me checks his pocket change
[15:43] <diddledan> I've got about 37p
[15:44] <penguin42> they sometimes will give them to you if you buy enough rack/power
[15:45] <diddledan> how much for a rack then?
[15:46] <diddledan> I've still got about 37p
[15:49] <penguin42> you might get a micron of space in the corner and a slightly drained AAA battery worth of power
[15:49] <MartijnVdS> oh and 300 baud
[15:49] <diddledan> icuk offer quarter-racks for 246/mo
[15:49] <diddledan> 236**
[15:50] <diddledan> with 2amperages
[15:50] <mungbean> did anyone listen to the bletchely prog on radio 4?
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> no, but I get_iplayered it
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> *enqueue*
[15:50] <penguin42> diddledan: Sigh, 2amp for 10U - giggle
[15:51] <mungbean> its 3hrs long
[15:51] <BigRedS> mgdm: the problem with backup diesel, though, is that it degrades with time. So you don't really want to keep the tank brimmed for ages without using it, either
[15:51] <diddledan> their 1U comes with 0.4amps
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: that's why you do test runs regularly, right
[15:51] <penguin42> diddledan: Slightly better, but you would have to be careful
[15:52] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: that's partly why *we* do, but it's also a secondary problem for people who don't
[15:54] <shauno> 96W? that's .. enough that you won't get billed for standby current when the machine's off
[15:55] <penguin42> shauno: You can get a single socket x86 in 96W if you're careful
[15:55] <diddledan> it's pushing it
[15:55] <diddledan> really want at least 150W
[15:56] <diddledan> that's IMO
[15:56] <penguin42> yeh and you could easily take 250-500W in 1U
[15:57] <diddledan> stick a meaty gpu for opencl and you're way over
[15:57] <diddledan> speaky de which. I need to get a gaming machine running - I like having three screens running off my macbook pro tho
[15:58] <penguin42> diddledan: Well you can get 4 socket x86 in 1U, at say 130W peak/socket and that's prior to any GPU or the like
[15:58] <shauno> on the other hand, that's half of Alan's cluster ;)
[15:58] <diddledan> shauno: sweet. stick a bank of rpi in there then
[15:58] <penguin42> shauno: Is Alan's whole cluster that high?
[15:59] <diddledan> penguin42: if you turn the shelf on it's side it will be :-p
[15:59] <penguin42> diddledan: ///that high current
[15:59] <diddledan> hehe
[16:00] <diddledan> I refer you to my previous statement :-p
[16:00] <shauno> I really have no idea.  I seem to get a different answer for current every time I look
[16:00] <diddledan> we all know electricity is like water (as they teach us in school) so if you make it downhill then the current will be higher at the lower end
[16:01] <diddledan> "think of a wire like a pipe carrying water"
[16:02] <diddledan> I need to put in an electricity header tank
[16:02] <penguin42> shauno: Hmm pi.org says 5v at 700ma, so what's that 3.5W each
[16:02] <bigcalm> directhex: latest HB worth getting? I see none of it is Linux though
[16:02] <diddledan> don't you hate when someone leaves a socket turned on so all the electricity starts running out all over the floor?
[16:03] <shauno> bigcalm: I've stopped buying them if they don't have a decent number on my platform.  it's the only way I could sooth the addiction
[16:03] <bigcalm> :)
[16:03] <diddledan> HB? hairy ....?
[16:03] <diddledan> barmaid
[16:04] <diddledan> oh humble
[16:04] <directhex> bigcalm, great value for windows users
[16:04] <diddledan> gotcha
[16:04] <diddledan> yeah if you're a windowite it's great
[16:05] <bigcalm> The video doesn't tell you anything about the games sadly
[16:05] <diddledan> bigcalm: I think the expectation is that you'll have heard of them beforehand
[16:06] <diddledan> AAA titles mean everyone and his dog obviously knows what they are

[16:06] <diddledan> I personally have no clue
[16:06] <shauno> we've noticed ;)
[16:06] <diddledan> in other news, however, worms series is on the weekly sale
[16:07] <diddledan> shauno: you noticed me? sweet!
[16:07]  * diddledan puts some lippy on
[16:07] <shauno> or if you're a mac user .. "worms crazy golf is on the weekly sale"
[16:08] <diddledan> yeah. hunble seem to have lost their way in releasing windows-only titles
[16:08] <diddledan> humble*
[16:09] <diddledan> I need a website wireframing app for mac or windows or linux or both mac and windows or all three
[16:10] <shauno> my personal position atm; save your pennies for the steam thanksgiving sale :)
[16:10] <bigcalm> diddledan: pencil in firefox
[17:51] <bigcalm> I wish the Indiegogo site wasn't so slow. I'd be able to contribute if the site were to respond
[17:52] <daftykins> d'aww
[17:53] <bigcalm> At least I was able to register for an account this time
[17:54] <bigcalm> Huh, had to reload the site, making a little progress
[17:54] <daftykins> some quirky browser cache lying dormant, or first time you've been there?
[17:54] <bigcalm> 1st time
[17:55] <bigcalm> The site is full of broken images. I think they have problems
[17:57] <daftykins> erk
[18:02] <bigcalm> Oooo, didn't notice this before: This campaign will receive all funds raised even if it does not reach its goal
[18:03] <daftykins> what project is this?
[18:04] <bigcalm> The only project that matters to people in this channel :P
[18:04] <bigcalm> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5305863
[18:12] <penguin42> popey: So they've got you down for destructive testing expert then?
[18:12] <popey> or "clumsy oaf
[18:12] <popey> yes
[18:13] <penguin42> popey: Yeh but it takes an expert to dislodge a soldered chip
[18:14] <popey> its really twisted
[18:14] <popey> you can't really tell in the pic
[18:14] <penguin42> popey: is it the type of remote that gets activated by pressing it ?
[18:14] <popey> uhm eh?
[18:14] <penguin42> popey: I can't actually tell what that thing is
[18:14] <popey> its a remote control dongle
[18:15] <popey> i.e. the remote is in your hand, its the receiver
[18:15] <penguin42> oh I see, that's just the receiver?
[18:15] <popey> ya
[18:15] <popey> which makes the remote useless
[18:15] <penguin42> do you think it got knocked or something while in the socket to bend it?  IMHO bending is more likely to cause a problem
[18:16] <penguin42> than dropping
[18:16] <popey> no, i dropped the computer
[18:16] <penguin42> ah!
[18:16] <popey> it landed on the usb stick
[18:16] <popey> with the weight of the computer behind it
[18:16] <penguin42> oh that makes a lot more sense
[18:16] <popey> the computer being an acer aspire revo
[18:16] <popey> which I was retrieving from behind the telly
[18:16] <popey> badly
[18:16] <penguin42> popey: I like the track along the top
[18:18] <czajkowski> nice video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkjMLvWt2ME#t=39    and well done to the Fedora community
[18:19] <popey> antenna
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> http://www.micrela.nl/app/
[19:14] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: i don't understand how to answer "how many years have you spent learning english?"
[19:14] <ali1234> "all of them"
[19:14] <ali1234> but the maximum possible answer is 25
[19:15] <ali1234> somehow i managed to get the spinbox to display "NaN" - that will do
[19:15] <mgdm> heh
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: did you select English on the first page?
[19:16] <mgdm> use the web developer tools to mess with the form
[19:16] <ali1234> yes
[19:18] <mgdm> oh, it's Flash
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> they're Groningen university researchers
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> trying to figure out how mutually intelligible languages are
[19:28] <AlanBell> woot, another pi and a pie and a pint perk taken :)
[19:29] <penguin42> AlanBell: You're going to have to find really excellent Pies for the people who paid up for that
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbnaSjhn-18
[19:33] <AlanBell> penguin42: actually mostly burgers where I was planning to take them, but rather fancy ones http://www.mulberryfarnham.co.uk/food.aspx
[19:34] <penguin42> AlanBell: Now hang on, those aren't Pies
[19:34] <bigcalm> AlanBell: Least amount of travel required by you :P
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> False promises!
[19:34] <AlanBell> bigcalm: yeah :)
[19:35] <AlanBell> I might have a hunt about for a more pie filled place
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> just bake one.. or have your wife/kids bake one
[19:35] <AlanBell> bake kids in a pie . . . hmm
[19:36] <bigcalm> AlanBell: http://www.sweeneyandtodd.co.uk/ - if it's not too far away?
[19:36] <ali1234> AlanBell: "pie shop farnham" in google, this is the top hit: http://thesandrock.com/
[19:36] <ali1234> award winning pies, apparently
[19:36] <bigcalm> When there with Dave2 and christel. Good pies :D
[19:36] <AlanBell> ooh, the sandrock, been there many many times (it is theopensourcerer's local pub)
[19:37] <AlanBell> not had a pie there, but that is absolutely an option
[19:37] <bigcalm> Numbers are creeping up. Yay
[19:38] <bigcalm> As you'll get the money no matter what (minus their fee), what can you do with £626?
[19:38] <AlanBell> they are indeed, thanks bigcalm :)
[19:38] <AlanBell> we can get several pis, and we can throw more money at it if we want to
[19:38] <bigcalm> Quick, somebody donate £40
[19:39] <AlanBell> but I think we will probably meet the total by christmas
[19:39] <bigcalm> Meep
[19:39] <bigcalm> Xmas is close
[19:39] <AlanBell> 49 days left
[19:58] <Myrtti> I do like pie
[19:58] <Myrtti> but I don't know if I can justify that expensive pie
[19:59] <mungbean> giffgaff flogging phones now
[20:02] <Myrtti> really?
[20:11] <GentileBen> Myrtti how are you finding your N5?
[20:11] <GentileBen> I've been all up in your grill about the N5 the last few days, and you don't respond.
[20:11] <Myrtti> love it
[20:12] <GentileBen> I've found the battery life to be pretty appaling.
[20:12] <Myrtti> sorry, I do have employment nowadays :-P
[20:12] <GentileBen> *appalling
[20:12] <GentileBen> I took the SIM out of my N4 and it's on 80% after 21 hours...
[20:13] <GentileBen> So I'm now 100% sure it's location services etc. which are killing my N5's battery.
[20:13] <GentileBen> After 21.5 hours, it's on 49%....and I've barely used it.
[20:13] <GentileBen> I've had maybe 10 minutes of screen on time today...
[20:14] <GentileBen> :[
[20:14] <mungbean> http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Blog/The-first-22-giffgaff-phone-range/ba-p/10417127
[20:14] <mgdm> this made me laugh  more than is reasonable http://i.imgur.com/D5gWwBL.gif
[20:14] <ali1234> poonikins!
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: what...? what?
[20:14] <ali1234> mgdm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt4p9A-U4Ko
[20:14] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: I have no idea either
[20:15] <mgdm> ali1234: uhmm
[20:15]  * MartijnVdS has fresh sugru!
[20:15] <mungbean> i need to put more sugru on my wellie boots
[20:15] <mungbean> the other side has split
[20:15] <mungbean> soon they will be sugru boots
[20:15] <mungbean> i also put some on the shower handle to make it grippy
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> I've put some on my teapot to make it not scratch my wooden table
[20:16] <mgdm> ali1234: the flying motorbike is brilliant
[20:16] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Doesn't the temp of the tea soften it again?
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: no, it's stable up to oven temps
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: in the 180° range
[20:17] <penguin42> ah
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: I've also replaced the lost rubber feet of my laptop with Sugru ones
[20:18] <Myrtti> oh man
[20:18] <Myrtti> I'm suffocating into mmy own laughter
[20:18] <Myrtti> oh dear
[20:18] <Myrtti> ahhhh. ali1234, thank you
[20:19] <mungbean> whats that poonikins game?
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: a h4x0red gta4
[20:20] <mungbean> reallly different from how i remember gta3
[20:20] <ali1234> i think it's actually a game from the driver series
[20:20] <ali1234> based ont he title of the other vid
[20:21] <ali1234> definitely hacked anyway
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: but the voice is Niko Bellic from GTA 4
[20:21] <ali1234> well, there you go then... never played that one
[20:21] <mungbean> the cars are not smooth like gta though, maybe because a horse is driving
[20:22] <ali1234> yeah there's a speedhack going on too
[20:22] <mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U8oarvfiO8
[20:22] <mungbean> x-wing going down the street
[20:23] <mungbean> poonikins is in it too
[20:25] <mungbean> there's an animals one with elephant and giraffe driving a car
[20:28] <airurando> good evening.
[20:28] <airurando> has anyone alink for the video stream?
[20:28] <airurando> wrong channel, sorry
[20:29] <SuperMatt> just did my first hlpout!
[20:29] <directhex> why do people spend so much time on modding GTA4 to make it be Saint's Row?
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> directhex: because they're poor and can't afford to buy both?
[20:32] <AlanBell> airurando: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZfD_hCi74w&feature=youtu.be
[20:33] <SuperMatt> oh man, session two starting now
[20:33] <SuperMatt> people are digging helpouts
[20:35] <AlanBell> cool SuperMatt :)
[20:35] <SuperMatt> oh, number two is a no show
[20:36] <SuperMatt> I don't know how long to give someone before cancelling on them
[20:38] <SuperMatt> holy... I have a queue of people right now
[20:41] <mungbean> do u get paid?
[20:41] <airurando> thanks AlanBell
[21:01] <SuperMatt> all right, I have 5 helpouts in the pipeline
[21:01] <SuperMatt> done two already
[21:02] <MooDoo> yay just waiting for my helpout url
[21:02] <Myrtti> so
[21:02] <MooDoo> so what?
[21:02] <Myrtti> what's the current recommended magic spell I need to do to get Ubuntu Touch on this phone?
[21:03] <MooDoo> expeliamus?
[21:03] <Myrtti> phablet-flash ubuntu-system something something?
[21:08] <popey> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install Myrtti
[21:08] <popey> but yes, phablet-flash ubuntu-system -b -d mako
[21:09] <Myrtti> popey: yeah I'm reading that
[21:09] <Myrtti> -d mako?
[21:10] <Myrtti> maguro
[21:14] <popey> oh sorry
[21:14] <popey> yes
[21:15] <Myrtti> this is scary
[21:15] <popey> ☻
[21:43] <ali1234> popey: how did you build glibc on your pi? just get the dsc and dpkg-buildpackage it?
[21:46] <penguin42> ali1234: Generally you should be able to build any package by getting it's source (apt-get source) installing build-dep (apt-get build-dep) and then building with dpkg-buildpackage
[21:47] <ali1234> yeah i know. i want to know how popey did it so i can try to do the same thing in qemu to compare the speed
[21:48] <penguin42> ali1234: Are you running qemu user or system emulation?
[21:48] <ali1234> system, with a raspbian image
[21:49] <ali1234> i suspect it will still take less than 11 hours :)
[21:49] <penguin42> nod, I'm betting it's probably a 20th or so of the speed of your host machine, so it might not be that wonderful
[21:49] <ali1234> there will be wins on disk speed though
[21:49] <penguin42> yeh
[21:50] <ali1234> even at a 20th it's still probably faster than the Pi CPU
[21:50] <ali1234> but we'll see...
[21:51] <penguin42> ali1234: Maybe - it might be a bit close; it's only a simplish emulator
[21:54] <Myrtti> jebus that was scary
[21:55] <penguin42> ali1234: http://sentryytech.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/faster-compiling-on-emulated-raspberry.html   although note that bogomips is really an entirely stupid way of measuring emulator perf
[21:55] <penguin42> Myrtti: What was?
[21:56] <SuperMatt> oh my gosh, that was absolutely amazing
[21:56] <SuperMatt> helpouts++
[21:57] <ali1234> penguin42: step A from that is what i'm doing now... then i'll try step B
[21:57] <diddledan> SuperMatt:?
[21:57] <penguin42> SuperMatt: is this video/audio ?
[21:58] <SuperMatt> yup
[21:58] <SuperMatt> I've done three helpouts already today
[21:59] <diddledan> what did you help with?
[21:59] <Myrtti> flashing my old Galaxy Nexus with Ubuntu Touch
[21:59] <diddledan> Myrtti: I might do that too
[21:59] <Myrtti> and then trying to find out if the data is disabled while roaming
[21:59] <diddledan> not the roaming bit
[22:00] <diddledan> I took delivery of shiny yesterday. a new nexus5 - I like the new kitkat taste
[22:00] <SuperMatt> first was problems with grub, second was how to run mupen64, and third was how to set up a virtual host with wsgi for django
[22:04] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: well thats not basic lol
[22:05] <SuperMatt> I know!
[22:05] <SuperMatt> but it was still quite fun
[22:05] <diddledan> penguin42: in relation to that article - plan b - I fail to see how architectural chroot can be any different in speed compared to full-on qemuing
[22:05] <MooDoo> good :D
[22:05] <diddledan> you still need to emulate the cpu whichever way you do it
[22:05] <ali1234> diddledan: when you use qemu like that, all library calls are made to native libs
[22:06] <ali1234> so you run an arm gcc binary, and qemu relinks it to x86 libc
[22:06] <ali1234> not sure how that works when you're inside a chroot tbh
[22:06] <penguin42> diddledan: Because you don't need to emulate the MMU and the OS kernel, all the sys calls get done on the x86 side
[22:07] <diddledan> weird
[22:07] <diddledan> really funky stuff then
[22:07] <penguin42> diddledan: qemu user land emulation turns a sys_write into an x86 sys_write and the x86 worries about filesystems etc
[22:07] <diddledan> clever
[22:07] <ali1234> yeah, kernel is still x86, even inside the chroot
[22:08] <diddledan> I suppose qemu-user marshalls the differences between little and big-endienness
[22:08] <ali1234> maybe, but nothing uses BE
[22:08] <penguin42> diddledan: It does but ARM is typically little anyway
[22:08] <diddledan> aah
[22:08]  * diddledan petpet arm
[22:08] <ali1234> some weird mips devices, that's about it
[22:09] <penguin42> ali1234: actually it's more than that, ARM can do big - often does, PPC, the mainframes and some other stuff
[22:09] <ali1234> motorola 68000 was BE
[22:09] <ali1234> that's the last time i saw it anywhere
[22:10]  * penguin42 throws one of his Sun 3/60's at ali1234 and goes to take a shower
[22:11] <ali1234> "it's called a 3/60 cos when you see it you do a 3/60 and then walk away"
[22:11] <diddledan> lol
[22:12] <ali1234> i think im gonna skip directly to plan B
[22:20] <SuperMatt> anyone know of a good opensource pastebin alternative
[22:22] <ali1234> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3909251/open-source-pastebin
[22:22] <AlanBell> there are one or two in the repositories
[22:22] <AlanBell> "good" depends on your criteria
[22:22] <SuperMatt> what's in the repos?
[22:23] <AlanBell> apt-cache search pastebin
[22:23] <AlanBell> !info pnopaste
[22:23] <SuperMatt> I'll take a look at that, thanks
[22:24] <ali1234> apparently bash from raspbian has instructions qemu can't handle
[22:24] <AlanBell> maybe that is the only one SuperMatt, I thought there were several but the other things appear to be pasting in tools
[22:24] <SuperMatt> might just write my own
[22:37] <popey> ali1234: i grabbed the 9.04 jaunty glibc and "debuild -uc -us"
[22:37] <popey> after apt-getting the build-dep
[22:38] <ali1234> hmm ok. i'm going to try with 13.10 glibc, because i'm lazy
[22:38] <ali1234> after i've fixed qemu that is
[22:43] <penguin42> what's it doing to you?
[22:43] <popey> i could probably grab the 13.10 glibc and build that too
[22:43] <popey> we should start them at the same time ☻
[22:43] <popey> mine will be building at 700Mhz on an SD card though ☻
[22:56] <ali1234> penguin42: it refuses to run the pi binaries basically
[22:56] <ali1234> invalid instruction exception
[23:02] <ali1234> ah there we go, fixed it
[23:03] <penguin42> what was up with it?
[23:04] <ali1234> the latest raspi image has this weird ld.so.preload which qemu doesn't like
[23:04] <ali1234> it was actually written in the first set of instructions i was looking at, but i didn't see it as they didn't tell the error you'd get if you skipped that part
[23:05]  * popey is ready to start "time debuild -uc -us" on his pi with eglibc-2.17
[23:06] <penguin42> ali1234: you might want a export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS='parallel=10'  (for a 4 core machine) :-)
[23:07] <ali1234> ok :)
[23:07] <popey> haha
[23:07] <ali1234> i;m currently trying to install build deps
[23:07] <AlanBell> cheating!
[23:07] <ali1234> need a deb-src line
[23:07] <penguin42> just because your pi only has one core
[23:07] <ali1234> why didn't they include it?
[23:08] <penguin42> ali1234: deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu trusty restricted multiverse universe main
[23:08] <ali1234> nope
[23:08] <penguin42> ali1234: You might want to use something older than trusty
[23:08] <ali1234> actually, maybe
[23:09] <ali1234> hmm, /dev/pts not mounted... better fix that
[23:11] <ali1234> E: Build-Depends dependency for eglibc cannot be satisfied because candidate version of package g++-4.7 can't satisfy version requirements
[23:12] <penguin42> ali1234: Hmm so what chroot have you got installed?
[23:12] <ali1234> raspbian 2013-09-25
[23:12] <penguin42> ah well then I assume you've got to match the deb-src to that
[23:12] <ali1234> yeah
[23:12] <ali1234> but i want to build glibc from ubuntu, since that's the point
[23:12] <ali1234> although for a speed test i guess it does not matter
[23:12] <popey> ahh
[23:13] <popey> i wont be able to build that either
[23:13] <penguin42> popey: What you building?
[23:13] <popey> same
[23:13] <popey> eglibc 2.17 on 9.4
[23:13] <popey> and I wont have gcc++-4.7
[23:13] <ali1234> so looks like you'll be doing 12.04 first AlanBell, or something like that anyway, at least the toolchain
[23:14] <penguin42> ali1234: There are some boot strapping instructions somewhere - and anyway you can ignore the build-dep and hope for the best
[23:14] <ali1234> i'll try precise...
[23:15] <ali1234> nope, needs 4.6-multilib
[23:15] <AlanBell> ali1234: ok
[23:15] <AlanBell> so can saucy be build from precise?
[23:15] <ali1234> should be able to yeah
[23:16] <ali1234> buy precise can't be built from raspbian - not without hackery for the bootstrap anyway
[23:16] <ali1234> really we should be building gcc in bootstrap mode first anyway :)
[23:16] <AlanBell> oh, do we have to start with jaunty and move up from there?
[23:16] <ali1234> i dunno, i'm not an expert in this stuff
[23:17] <penguin42> the linaro guys should have some bootstrapping instructions
[23:17] <ali1234> what's it called? oldrelease? old-releases?
[23:18] <popey> alan@deep-thought:~/saucy/eglibc-2.17$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list
[23:18] <popey> deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jaunty main restricted
[23:18] <popey> deb-src http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jaunty main restricted
[23:18] <popey> I would start with raspian, use wheezy to make precise
[23:18] <popey> and then use that to build up from there
[23:19] <AlanBell> 23:16 < ali1234> buy precise can't be built from raspbian - not without hackery for the bootstrap anyway
[23:19] <popey> why?
[23:19] <ali1234> the build-deps are all wrong
[23:19] <popey> oh i see
[23:19] <penguin42> ali1234: Have you tried ignoring them?
[23:19] <ali1234> not yet
[23:19] <popey> jaunty is way to old to start from
[23:20] <ali1234> let's just ignore build deps then :)
[23:21] <ali1234> precise might work better - it is at least the sme general version of gcc (4.6)
[23:22] <ali1234> eglibc 2.15-0ubuntu10
[23:30] <ali1234> debuild: command not found
[23:37] <ali1234> devscripts really has a lot of silly dependencies
[23:40] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh but you just install the packages and you're done
[23:40] <ali1234> it started up exim4...
[23:43] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh that's just to send the notification to the NSA
[23:43] <popey> heh
[23:45] <Azelphur> My BTC value just topped $30k \o/
[23:45]  * Azelphur awaits 6 digits
[23:45] <ali1234> according to what exchange?
[23:45] <Azelphur> ali1234: gox, bitstamp is only $400 off though.
[23:51] <ali1234> hmm... it's getting warm in here