/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/08/#ubuntu-uk.txt

shauno	if your qemu host can't get past a specific test, doesn't that prove that "it's 2013" isn't a valid test?	00:31
penguin42	shauno: No, it's qemu multithreading that's the bug	00:32
shauno	it's still created a build root that isn't usable though	00:33
shauno	I do wish autoconf had some idea how modern distros worked though. it could use something like that 'command not found' hook that ubuntu uses, rather than print out a header file it couldn't find	00:34
penguin42	shauno: cnf only does commands as far as I'm aware, apt-file can find headers although there can be multiple answers and I don't think there is much cross-distro - although I think there are some packagekit hooks	00:35
shauno	I'm not sure it really needs to be cross distro	00:37
shauno	eg, bash4 provides the command_not_found_handle. if it's not set, it reverts to its default behaviour. that's a sane model	00:38
shauno	let each distro ship their own handlers for that, and fall back to pretending its the 80s if it's unavailable	00:38
shauno	just feels like there has to be a better answer than just printing "...no"	00:41
penguin42	hmm where did that net conenction go	01:01
MooDoo	morning all	07:09
shauno	o/	07:10
MooDoo	I see everyone is going nuts over https://fixubuntu.com/	07:32
jussi	MooDoo: I honestly dont care (and dont think canonical have a case, as its clearly in the fair use domain)	07:33
MooDoo	jussi: me neither to be honest, just makes me laugh how people go so overboard.	07:33
jussi	MooDoo: ++	07:34
MooDoo	domain issue aside, if you don't like feature of the dashboard disable it....no need for the "i'm moving to fedora/debian" diatribe that i've been seeing.	07:34
MooDoo	climbs off soapbox ;)	07:35
jussi	MooDoo: ++ (again)	07:36
jussi	see, for me, I just use Kubuntu	07:36
jussi	(although, I do like the unity menu thing, even with amazon, and Id love to see a port that works on kubuntu)	07:36
MooDoo	to be honest canonical can do what they want with their os, 1 it's theirs, and 1, its opensource, if you don't like stuff remove it or disable it....simples....	07:39
shauno	I must admit that approach makes me uneasy. if anyone else did it, people would be crying blue murder	07:43
MooDoo	Still think it's overkill :D but then again, it's one way of getting people to your site ;)	07:44
shauno	I guess I have almost the polar opposite view on it. I think selling privacy for adbucks is overkill, and find myself with less trust in canonical than I do apple or microsoft	07:48
MooDoo	yeah it's crap, it should be opt-in not opt out	07:49
jussi	mind, we all do pretty much the same thign everyday when we search with google	07:50
MooDoo	yeah, I just think people want something else to moan about :)	07:50
shauno	would it be 'moaning' if anyone else at all did it?	07:54
TheOpenSourcerer	Morning all.	07:55
MartijnVdS	MooDoo: but how long before they REMOVE the ability to disable the featuer?!	07:55
MartijnVdS	TheOpenSourcerer: good morning, how's your crowdfunding campaign going?	07:55
TheOpenSourcerer	OK :-D	07:56
TheOpenSourcerer	http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5292412	07:56
TheOpenSourcerer	That's over 30%	07:56
MartijnVdS	cool!	07:56
TheOpenSourcerer	And it's been running for less that three full days.	07:56
MooDoo	MartijnVdS: gods dammit I'll move to debian ;)	07:56
diplo	Morning all	07:56
MooDoo	morning diplo	07:56
shauno	MooDoo: I already am. I've gone from 6 ubuntu machines, to 5 debian machines and 1 ubuntu. and the last one will move when I can no longer get updates for 10.04	07:57
MooDoo	shauno: how come you moved?	07:57
TheOpenSourcerer	Ahh - I remember 10:10 desktop with great fondness. Reckon that the was the best, most stable release evah.	07:57
shauno	because canonical have done almost nothing I can agree with in years. taking an honest stab at the phone might have been the only plus point	07:58
MooDoo	shauno: fair enough :)	07:58
MooDoo	shauno: how you finding debian? like the gnome interface?	08:00
* jussi is still on Kubuntu - it nice :)		08:00
shauno	heh, I actually just discovered a VM had been upgraded to gnome3 last night. that was awkward	08:00
AlanBell	I quite liked gnome shell when I was using it	08:02
AlanBell	but Unity in 13.10 is mostly OK	08:03
AlanBell	the dash is still annoying, I don't like the way all the icons move about as you try to click on them	08:04
jussi	AlanBell: true, that bit is annoying	08:04
TheOpenSourcerer	I just really don't like the global menu. I mean WTF? I have a small gedit window open, or nautilus. And I have to traverse the entire screen to get to the bloody menu? It's just a stupid idea.	08:05
AlanBell	because different scopes keep adding results, so super, "plu" gives me a google plus web link icon, for about a second, then the files and folders scope moves it down and I click on the "plugins" folder	08:06
AlanBell	and I don't like the global menu, that is just a copy of a fail	08:06
jussi	TheOpenSourcerer: HUD?	08:06
TheOpenSourcerer	Never use it. Can't get the hang of it.	08:06
AlanBell	HUD is a reasonable concept, but I never use it	08:06
MartijnVdS	I've even disabled the hotkey because I kept opening it by accident	08:07
AlanBell	abstracting menu options into a common API is a good thing, but there should be more innovative menu operating things	08:07
AlanBell	like circular menus and so on	08:07
TheOpenSourcerer	And whilst we're on a roll <rant> have you noticed in 13.10 that evince doesn;t do the global menu. You have to click the little cog on the far right of it's window to get at it. lol	08:08
MartijnVdS	that's because Gnome 3 hates menus even more than Unity/Ubuntu does	08:09
TheOpenSourcerer	And nautilus for that matter	08:09
=== iahmad is now known as iahmad\|afk
TheOpenSourcerer	So now we have some windows where the menu is up the top and some where it isn't. Great.	08:10
MartijnVdS	complain to the design team	08:11
TheOpenSourcerer	They won't listen - it's not design. It's usability.	08:11
AlanBell	who will remove the menus, because they don't look pretty	08:11
shauno	I've found complaining doesn't actually work. they have a target user they're aiming for - and they're not linux users	08:12
MooDoo	I suspect this is the time for AlanOS	08:13
TheOpenSourcerer	Has a lovely ring to it don't you think?	08:13
MooDoo	yes	08:14
AlanBell	no	08:14
TheOpenSourcerer	Slightly greek/classical sounding ;-)	08:14
shauno	the first release has to be 'Morissette' ;)	08:14
TheOpenSourcerer	lol	08:14
TheOpenSourcerer	Very good.	08:15
AlanBell	gosh, someone else got thealans.com thought we had that	08:15
TheOpenSourcerer	lol - nah I let it go when it was up for renewal.	08:15
AlanBell	I approve of the current use though	08:16
AlanBell	first time I have ever seen a lapsed domain go to a non-spammy use	08:16
TheOpenSourcerer	But they have band members not called Alan!!!	08:16
=== MooDoo is now known as Alan28
TheOpenSourcerer	And they use that peculiar spelling with 2 ll	08:17
Alan28	does this help?	08:17
TheOpenSourcerer	:-D	08:17
AlanBell	heh	08:17
=== Alan28 is now known as MooDoo
MartijnVdS	MooDoo: you're not an Alan!	08:17
MooDoo	MartijnVdS: I can be....We all can be alans....I plesge allegiance to the alans....;)	08:17
TheOpenSourcerer	If MooDoo want's to be an Alan he can be MartijnVdS	08:17
MartijnVdS	TheOpenSourcerer: \o/	08:18
TheOpenSourcerer	sorry s/want's/wants	08:18
TheOpenSourcerer	How many feel like doing this but never do? https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LizQuilty/posts/9QMq9BNSoLL	08:22
MooDoo	TheOpenSourcerer: i'm doing it now ;)	08:26
TheOpenSourcerer	lol	08:26
popey	Morning.	08:38
TheOpenSourcerer	lo popey	08:38
MooDoo	morning popey	08:38
=== iahmad\|afk is now known as iahmad
TheOpenSourcerer	I just learnt about "The Streisand Effect"...	08:54
SuperMatt	hurr	08:55
MartijnVdS	TheOpenSourcerer: you can't stop listening now, can you!	08:55
TheOpenSourcerer	?	08:56
MartijnVdS	TheOpenSourcerer: Streisand. Horrible music.	08:56
MooDoo	TheOpenSourcerer: it was named after barbara	08:56
MooDoo	the effect that is	08:56
TheOpenSourcerer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect	08:56
TheOpenSourcerer	Fortunately MartijnVdS I know so little of her songs that it's not enough to trigger an earworm.	08:57
TheOpenSourcerer	Unlike AlanBell's link the other week that had me silently humming "Shopping at Lidl's" for days!	08:57
AlanBell	its a cut price shopping wonderland	08:58
TheOpenSourcerer	lol	08:58
TheOpenSourcerer	NOOOOOOOO!	08:58
AlanBell	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKsGKERivTQ for those not yet initiated	08:58
MartijnVdS	another weekend lost	08:58
=== michelle is now known as Guest62457
* TheOpenSourcerer returns from getting coffee determined NOT to click on AlanBell's Link.		09:00
MooDoo	TheOpenSourcerer: click it, you know you want too...	09:05
TheOpenSourcerer	no.	09:06
TheOpenSourcerer	I can be strong.	09:06
TheOpenSourcerer	I will survive.	09:06
TheOpenSourcerer	Argghhh... Elkie Brooks!	09:06
DJones	Heh, this reminds me of the Only Fools & Horses episode http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-24854508	09:07
TheOpenSourcerer	lol - love the bit of unnecessary padding "After a scuffle in the toilet roll aisle..."	09:08
DJones	Didn't think that bit was really necessary	09:09
TheOpenSourcerer	No it wasn't after i'd read the rest ;-(	09:09
TheOpenSourcerer	Sorry - I think it was fine actually. It was pertinent to the tweet info later on.	09:10
SuperMatt	http://www.supermatt.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/1399717_10153419218185464_671733594_o.jpg got a free new t-shirt last night ;)	09:14
MartijnVdS	SuperMatt: what did you have to give to facebook for that?	09:14
MooDoo	SuperMatt: morning, how'd you get that?	09:14
TheOpenSourcerer	His soul...	09:14
MooDoo	what MartijnVdS said ;)	09:14
MartijnVdS	bank statement history for the past 7 years?	09:14
SuperMatt	just some of my time and attention	09:15
SuperMatt	and maybe I'll send me CV over too	09:15
MartijnVdS	so.. you're a masochist :)	09:15
SuperMatt	oh god no, from what I saw last night, facebook is a fantastic place to work	09:15
MartijnVdS	I've heard it's a bit creepy at times, no work/private life separation allowed or something	09:16
DJones	Must admit, I don't think I'd have posted the link in a logged channel, the photo has been now been copied and its evidence will be held against you for the rest of your life	09:16
MartijnVdS	or "discouraged"	09:16
bashrc	Personally, I wouldn't touch Facebook with the proverbial barge pole	09:16
MooDoo	SuperMatt: think i'd prefer google, rackspace	09:17
awilkins	Google sounds a bit corporate now TBH	09:17
awilkins	20% time notwithstanding	09:17
bashrc	Google's glory days are over	09:17
awilkins	Valve	09:17
SuperMatt	20% time is dead	09:17
awilkins	That's where I'd like to work	09:17
directhex	valve is not an easy place to get a job	09:17
awilkins	Valve, where 100% of time is "do what you think you is best" time	09:17
awilkins	Yeah, that's the downside	09:17
MooDoo	awilkins: I read an article about that the other day.	09:18
MooDoo	well I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to work for the alans ;) lol	09:18
awilkins	Being awesome enough to get into Valve, moving to 'merca against my better judgement	09:18
awilkins	Alans?	09:18
awilkins	Alan Sugar?	09:18
MooDoo	awilkins: TheOpenSourcerer and AlanBell	09:18
AlanBell	deed poll is the way forward	09:18
MooDoo	:D	09:18
awilkins	Are they Canonicalites?	09:18
MartijnVdS	Canonicalistas is the preferred term now	09:19
DJones	No, thats the Alan	09:19
MooDoo	awilkins: no they run their own business	09:19
DJones	other	09:19
TheOpenSourcerer	Have we got your cv MooDoo?	09:19
bashrc	Do they pray at the alter of shuttle?	09:19
popey	ʘ‿ಠ	09:19
MooDoo	TheOpenSourcerer: I was joking and no you don't :D	09:19
MooDoo	and for awilkins benefit, it's http://www.libertus.co.uk/	09:20
awilkins	TheOpenSourcerer, If you want my CV you can have it	09:20
awilkins	:-P	09:20
AlanBell	awilkins: enquiries@libertus.co.uk	09:20
TheOpenSourcerer	We are always interested.	09:20
bashrc	My CV is currently deprecated	09:20
MooDoo	omg and I didn't even have to look up the url, sheesh	09:20
awilkins	I'm a Java dev at the moment but hold it against me	09:20
AlanBell	any language is fine, learning new languages is not a big deal	09:21
awilkins	Indeed, it's about mental flexibility	09:21
MooDoo	i'm more customer support/team leader which i'm doing now	09:22
AlanBell	mostly we do PHP and Python stuff, but we are not language based specialists, we do implementing open source business applications	09:22
awilkins	Working for the NHS I always wanted to start an "Office of LibreOffice Development"	09:23
TheOpenSourcerer	We've just closed the 1st quarter of the new financial year for Libertus and it was a revenue record. :-D	09:23
AlanBell	LibreOffice turns out not to be something we get asked about, people either use it or they don't	09:24
awilkins	When we canned the enterprise-wide agreement for MS Office I did some napkin sums and concluded that we could really put some serious contributions into LibreOffice for a fraction of the money	09:24
MooDoo	you need satalite offices around the country ;)	09:24
TheOpenSourcerer	That includes August	09:24
awilkins	Yeah, LibreOffice would require quite a lot of specialist investment that would be beyond most small enterprises	09:24
awilkins	But the NHS would be a great fit for an org with enough inertia to put the effort in	09:24
bashrc	yes	09:25
TheOpenSourcerer	for most smes I don;t think relacing a legacy desktop app for another legacy desktop app is worth the time or cost of retraining frankly. Unless there are thousands of seats involved the ROI just sin't there.	09:25
awilkins	When you think we must have been / still be spending on the order of 9 figures on MS Office licenses, 5% of that is a lot of cash	09:25
TheOpenSourcerer	awilkins: You involved in Spine2?	09:26
awilkins	Which is of course why they stopped the single-line-item enterprise wide agreement	09:26
awilkins	cos it would have been a huge budgetary target.	09:26
AlanBell	and it was on the cabinet office budget	09:26
awilkins	TheOpenSourcerer, Not involved in Spine2 ; considered it when the internal job ads came out, Linux / Python being in my quiver	09:26
awilkins	My current focus is on collaborative work on specialist domain models ; want to foster the same kind of workflows you see in the Linux kernel development team	09:27
awilkins	Which means both developing the VCS tools further than just tools to manage text files and also "devolve" the content tools more towards formats designed to facilitate merges	09:28
TheOpenSourcerer	Have you seens what's coming in Owncloud 6?	09:29
TheOpenSourcerer	Or played with Alfresco?	09:29
awilkins	Nope ; I heard some hints that obeo.fr want to do the same sort of thing from the stuff they are poiting on the JGit mailing lists	09:29
* awilkins bookmarks		09:29
bashrc	I think there's a plan for collaborative document editing	09:30
AlanBell	Alfresco is a UK based company that really should be a bit more noticed in the UK	09:30
AlanBell	as is Canonical	09:30
TheOpenSourcerer	Changing the subject completely... Did anyone watch the BBC2 thing on population yesterday?	09:30
awilkins	TheOpenSourcerer, More about the very stringent peer-reviewed kind of process that the kernel employs - and not just about documents	09:31
bashrc	no. Is there a population shortage?	09:31
TheOpenSourcerer	No but the perceived problem of too many peeps may well be not an issue. According to the (very plausible) presenter	09:31
awilkins	I do tools for the huge sets of codes and other information models supposed to be used for electronic health records	09:32
MooDoo	awilkins: you after a job or somethig ;)	09:33
awilkins	MooDoo, A bit bored and frustrated with work at the moment :-)	09:35
MooDoo	awilkins: where you work at the moment?	09:35
awilkins	What used to be the NHS IT programme	09:35
MooDoo	ok, nothing about at the moment?	09:35
awilkins	What, nothing HERE?	09:36
MooDoo	I meant, are you struggling to find other jobs? as I might be looking next year...	09:37
MooDoo	is there a lot of jobs available from what you've seen?	09:37
awilkins	Hmm, well, I'm always getting mails from the job vultures	09:38
MartijnVdS	awilkins: yay linkedin, I guess?	09:38
MooDoo	don't we all	09:38
awilkins	Not really LinkedIn so much	09:38
awilkins	Just the various people who stuck me in a database at one time or another	09:38
awilkins	But I rarely move jobs, been in this one for > 7 yrs	09:38
MooDoo	awilkins: sounds like me, this is my 8th year	09:38
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
awilkins	There's certainly plenty of work that I could DO, much less work that I would be actually interested in doing.	09:39
awilkins	Anything that says "financial services industry" goes straight in the bin	09:39
MooDoo	why don't we start ubuntu uk support i'm sure libertus solutions could fund us ;)	09:39
awilkins	I applied for a post at Canonical for doing their Windows client for Ubuntu One once ; what I really want to do is fix proxy support for Ubuntu	09:41
awilkins	Enterprise proxy support in particular	09:41
awilkins	Of course, I want to do it because I'm trapped behind one at work	09:41
awilkins	That particular itch would evaporate if I wasn't working on a network stuck behind an ISA server :-)	09:42
MooDoo	I look at the canonical careers page now and again	09:42
awilkins	But it staggers me the AWFUL proxy support for what you would think were core Ubuntu applications	09:42
awilkins	Barely anything outside the browser supports PAC scripts	09:42
MartijnVdS	because not everyone and their dog links in a javascript engine	09:42
awilkins	MartijnVdS, My take on that is to offer a system proxy service instead	09:43
MartijnVdS	awilkins: that would be best, but then you'd have to convince a LOT of people to use that service (everything that now just parses http_proxy env vars)	09:43
awilkins	MartijnVdS, Why? It's just another proxy	09:43
awilkins	MartijnVdS, Set the env variable to it's local port	09:44
MartijnVdS	hmm	09:44
MartijnVdS	that would probably work	09:44
bigcalm	Anybody want a steam key for Deponia?	09:44
awilkins	Then you could focus on doing it well ONCE	09:44
TheOpenSourcerer	This might be up someone's street - Bloody good salary: http://www.linuxrecruit.co.uk/jobs/details/linux-consultant-london/	09:44
awilkins	Support all the funky Windows auth schemes, etc	09:44
awilkins	Shiny, not a bad salary, shame about the Big Smoke	09:45
MartijnVdS	awilkins: it'd only need to be a small program, just parse incoming URLs, match against PAC using some JS engine, and do what's required	09:45
awilkins	MartijnVdS, Yup	09:45
awilkins	And support SOCKS	09:45
awilkins	And also support socks-ifying processes for things that don't even support proxies at all	09:46
bigcalm	Good morning peeps :)	09:46
MartijnVdS	awilkins: tsocks already exists for that	09:46
MartijnVdS	awilkins: LD_PRELOAD h4x0ring	09:46
TheOpenSourcerer	Need to reboot. bbl	09:46
awilkins	MartijnVdS, Yeah, I use tsocks / SSH for many things (including this IRC session)_	09:46
JamesTait	Good morning all; happy Friday and happy X-Ray Day! :-D	09:47
* MartijnVdS X-rays JamesTait		09:48
TheOpenSourcerer	That didn't take long did it?	09:48
awilkins	I mean, currently, the "get me the proxy" call or whatever for Ubuntu will just pass the PAC URL if one is configured	09:48
awilkins	It should just pass the local proxy-proxy URL instead if you define a PAC script as the proxy source	09:48
MartijnVdS	TheOpenSourcerer: it worked!	09:49
MartijnVdS	awilkins: sounds reasonable	09:49
TheOpenSourcerer	:-D	09:49
TheOpenSourcerer	But I am running out of space on my SSD :-(	09:49
MartijnVdS	awilkins: you could even make hooks in the local-proxy so it can run transparently without a .pac file (allowing you to sniff your own HTTP requests more easily than with wireshark)	09:49
TheOpenSourcerer	/dev/sda1 52G 48G 1.3G 98% /	09:49
awilkins	I see the problem, TheOpenSourcerer, your SSD is tiny	09:50
awilkins	Get a 128GB one.	09:50
TheOpenSourcerer	Yes.	09:51
MartijnVdS	TheOpenSourcerer: move /var/log off there	09:51
TheOpenSourcerer	I have just gone to eBuyer.	09:51
MartijnVdS	Prices for 256G SSDs are down a lot these days	09:51
TheOpenSourcerer	I can get rid of quite a bit of cruft but 60G aint much these days...	09:51
awilkins	I was managing with 64GB but having to do things like keep my music on a separate thumb drive	09:52
TheOpenSourcerer	http://www.ebuyer.com/387080-sandisk-128gb-pulse-ssd-slim-sdssdp-128g-g25	09:53
TheOpenSourcerer	£65 lol	09:53
directhex	i wouldn't buy an SSD smaller than 240G these days	09:53
directhex	but i play a lot of games	09:54
directhex	team fortress 2 alone is 13G	09:54
directhex	metro last light is 9G	09:54
awilkins	I just have a 3TB spinning rust disk for that	09:54
SuperMatt	I'm waiting for a nicely priced £500G, then I'll whip all the drives out of my pc, stick them in a nas, and use the 500G for games	09:55
MartijnVdS	directhex: doesn't that share a lot with the other Source-engine games though?	09:55
awilkins	Games are "big bursty files" oriented for the most part	09:55
awilkins	Not "little tidgy random access" files	09:55
directhex	MartijnVdS, there is no longer any sharing between source engine games	09:55
popey	yeah, my laptop ssd is 240GB and is getting tight	09:55
MartijnVdS	directhex: not even if they share the same year/version of the engine?	09:55
popey	/dev/sda1 213G 195G 7.0G 97% /	09:56
SuperMatt	roffle	09:56
awilkins	/dev/sdb1 162G 61G 93G 40% /	09:56
* popey runs baobab		09:56
directhex	MartijnVdS, nope	09:56
directhex	MartijnVdS, sharing used to work with the old storage/download format. it doesn't work since the "steampipe" format	09:57
TheOpenSourcerer	Is there much difference between brands and performance and reliability etc?	09:57
TheOpenSourcerer	http://www.ebuyer.com/447256-kingston-240gb-v300-ssdnow-with-adapter-sv300s37a-240g	09:57
TheOpenSourcerer	£123	09:57
directhex	TheOpenSourcerer, yes, a big difference	09:57
directhex	well, for reliability anyway	09:57
TheOpenSourcerer	What's good then?	09:57
directhex	for performance... you've sorta got tiers depending on the technology in use	09:58
TheOpenSourcerer	Or what's crap?	09:58
TheOpenSourcerer	More bothered about reliability	09:58
MartijnVdS	directhex: ah, Steampipe is also why TF2 had to do some magic when I started it last Sunday	09:58
TheOpenSourcerer	Won't notice a few Mb/s difference tbh	09:58
SuperMatt	TheOpenSourcerer: not bad, but I was hoping by now prices would be lower :(	09:58
directhex	TheOpenSourcerer, i'd avoid OCZ as a brand	09:58
MartijnVdS	I have 2 Samsungs and 2 Intels	09:59
directhex	TheOpenSourcerer, top tier: Mushkin Chronos Deluxe, Patriot Wildfire, OCZ Vertex 3 Max IOPS, OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G, Corsair Force GS	09:59
MartijnVdS	all work great	09:59
directhex	TheOpenSourcerer, Samsung 840, Samsung 840 Pro	09:59
TheOpenSourcerer	Used to swear buy sammy or hitachi hdds.	09:59
directhex	TheOpenSourcerer, OCZ Vector, OVZ Vertex 4, Plextor M3 Pro, Plextor M5 Pro, Sandisk Extreme 2	10:00
directhex	TheOpenSourcerer, that's the top tier list	10:00
MartijnVdS	anandtech used to do great comparisons of SSD speed	10:00
MartijnVdS	probably still does	10:00
directhex	TheOpenSourcerer, in theory the V300 should be considered top tier, though it isn't specifically cited in my lists	10:01
TheOpenSourcerer	ty directhex	10:02
directhex	TheOpenSourcerer, i'll be honest though, the controller chip used in it is regarded as good for performance, but of questionable long-term reliability (it's a VERY common chip)	10:02
directhex	TheOpenSourcerer, also note that my list is specifically for 240G drives. SSD performance characteristics vary with drive size, and a given trive might be top tier at 240G and mid tier at 120G	10:04
TheOpenSourcerer	gotcha	10:05
MartijnVdS	also, if your machine has SATA-300, SSD Speed isn't going to be the bottleneck	10:05
directhex	TheOpenSourcerer, i have an old model of Kingston, the HyperX. wife has an old model of sandisk, the Extreme. both 240G	10:05
TheOpenSourcerer	Dunno what Sata I have.	10:06
MartijnVdS	TheOpenSourcerer: kernel log will tell you	10:06
TheOpenSourcerer	Nah: UDMA/133	10:08
MartijnVdS	TheOpenSourcerer: [ 3.153793] ata1: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)	10:09
TheOpenSourcerer	SATA link up 1.5 Gbps	10:09
directhex	as roughly indivative, a samsung 840 pro 256GB is about 50% faster than a crucial m500 240gb	10:09
directhex	so we're not talking minor discrepancies	10:09
AlanBell	syslog.1:Nov 7 19:07:07 alanlaptop kernel: [248937.090995] ata1: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)	10:09
MartijnVdS	directhex: compared to spinning rust, it's a minor difference though	10:10
directhex	true	10:10
AlanBell	are hybrid drives any good?	10:12
directhex	AlanBell, good question. never really investigated	10:12
SuperMatt	me neither	10:12
MartijnVdS	the Samsung Prius?	10:12
directhex	(if i came across as facetious there, it wasn't intentional. it really is a good question)	10:13
directhex	MartijnVdS, e.g. http://www.seagate.com/as/en/internal-hard-drives/laptop-hard-drives/laptop-solid-state-hybrid-drive/	10:13
directhex	which is a hard disk with a small ssd cache in front	10:13
directhex	8G i think. let me check	10:13
directhex	8G in the laptop models	10:15
directhex	also the desktop models	10:15
directhex	except for the 500G momemtus xt, which is 4G	10:16
TheOpenSourcerer	Thanks all - just ordered a Sammy 840 EVO 250G for my lappy and a Kingston V300 64G for my desktop as an OS and bcache	10:29
bigcalm	I like that people are contributing amounts that keep the total at fun numbers	10:38
bigcalm	Current total £777	10:38
TheOpenSourcerer	Ah good point - it needs a bit more pimping I think...	10:39
AlanBell	possibly even an "update"	10:40
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
dwatkins	it's really quiet in my office, I get the impression half the people here are either working from home or have the day off.	10:47
MooDoo	dwatkins: can't you work from home?	10:47
SuperMatt	starting next friday, I have every friday off until new year	10:48
MartijnVdS	SuperMatt: on purpose?	10:48
SuperMatt	yup	10:48
SuperMatt	well	10:48
SuperMatt	I didn't plan to have so much leave left over	10:48
SuperMatt	I just didn't take it	10:48
MartijnVdS	ah so they're not making you ;)	10:48
dwatkins	MooDoo: yeah, in theory, but I wanted to come in and try and sort out my Raspberry Pi, despite the fact my manager and half the team are off or working from home themselves.	10:49
MooDoo	dwatkins: get those tunes on loud then :D	10:49
dwatkins	unfortunately it's an open-plan office, and I can hear at least one person on a conference call	10:50
dwatkins	also, the phone hardly stops ringing	10:50
MooDoo	boooo	10:50
dwatkins	I have headphones :)	10:50
MooDoo	small mercies	10:51
brobostigon	good morning everyone,	10:54
MooDoo	morning brobostigon	10:55
dwatkins	hiya brobostigon	10:55
brobostigon	morning MooDoo and dwatkins	10:55
dwatkins	I considered getting a HDMI splitter (I need a powered one for the Raspberry Pi, as the simple one doesn't seem to work), but they're more expensive than a 2nd Raspberry Pi....	10:55
* dwatkins orders a 2nd Raspbery Pi		10:55
brobostigon	good choice,	10:57
TheOpenSourcerer	Hmmm, anyone near Farnham fancy a pub lunch today?	10:57
* AlanBell has a reservation at Raymond Blanc's place		10:59
* TheOpenSourcerer is not playing gooseberry		11:01
MartijnVdS	TheOpenSourcerer: ermahgerd, gerseberry?	11:02
dwatkins	hmmm, perhaps a powered splitter would be better, and they're only £25	11:02
TheOpenSourcerer	If I understood you I might reply MartijnVdS...	11:02
davmor2	Morning all	11:08
MooDoo	morning davmor2	11:08
MartijnVdS	TheOpenSourcerer: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ermahgerd	11:09
bigcalm	Hi davmor2	11:09
davmor2	morning MooDoo hows life dude?	11:10
davmor2	I got a shiny new touchy feely mouse last night and it just works wow :D	11:10
bigcalm	davmor2: be sure to make fun of Amo's non-starting car at the LUG next week. I had to jump start it twice yesterday after badminton	11:10
davmor2	bigcalm: is this his car or his moms that he has broken?	11:11
bigcalm	davmor2: his own Saab	11:12
davmor2	oh he got another new one :D	11:12
bigcalm	davmor2: dead battery. I'm chuffed with myself for keeping jump leads in my car boot	11:12
popey	TheOpenSourcerer: yes, i fancy a pub lunch	11:13
TheOpenSourcerer	:-D	11:13
Laney	me too	11:13
Laney	swing by and pick me up?	11:14
Laney	(jealous)	11:14
bigcalm	popey: Moga Pro arrived today. Makes GTA Vice City much more fun :)	11:15
popey	might take a while...	11:15
popey	http://bit.ly/HMIzO3	11:15
TheOpenSourcerer	popey: Want me to come to northcamp? Or do you fancy something like a "Gourmet Burger"?	11:16
popey	I can come over your way	11:16
TheOpenSourcerer	cool.	11:16
popey	bigcalm: oh?	11:18
davmor2	haha my new logitech t400 mouses middle button is odd the bottom half trigger the dash (ie super key press) the top half is a standard third button mouse click :D that's gonna be fun :)	11:18
bigcalm	popey: yus	11:18
popey	TheOpenSourcerer: you should get AlanBell to ask in #surrey too	11:18
bigcalm	popey: works via bluetooth, so I'll be hooking it up to my TV stick at lunch time to play GTA VC on the telly :D	11:18
popey	you can play GTC VC on android?	11:18
bigcalm	Yus	11:19
bigcalm	It's a 1.3GB download iirc	11:19
bigcalm	About 4 odd quid on the play store	11:19
MartijnVdS	with WITH the entire soundtrack!	11:20
bigcalm	Yus, I love loves me the soundtrack	11:23
MartijnVdS	bigcalm: I have the CD edition :)	11:24
bigcalm	I wonder if Minecraft would work with the controller	11:24
bigcalm	No, it doesn't :(	11:29
popey	/dev/sda1 213G 168G 35G 84% /	11:30
popey	that's better	11:30
MartijnVdS	popey: apt-get clean?	11:34
popey	uninstall some games, delete some vmss	11:34
popey	-s	11:34
popey	KiB Mem: 8056528 total, 6641020 used, 1415508 free, 3540 buffers	11:35
popey	KiB Swap: 8267772 total, 6276728 used, 1991044 free, 747996 cached	11:35
popey	this could be better	11:35
popey	7406 alan 20 0 2509m 506m 16m S 1.3 6.4 171:23.57 chromium-browse	11:36
popey	6754 alan 20 0 2293m 350m 16m S 0.7 4.4 102:32.13 chromium-browse	11:36
popey	6355 alan 20 0 3599m 320m 22m S 2.0 4.1 258:48.25 chromium-browse	11:36
mungbean	i hate what browsers have become	11:36
MartijnVdS	time to reboot the browser/	11:36
popey	closed a bunch of tabs, down to 5.2G swap	11:37
penguin42	5.2G swap ?!	11:37
diddledan	that's painful	11:37
MartijnVdS	popey: how many tabs do you have open, usually?	11:38
penguin42	MartijnVdS: He's got the whole of the internet loaded into his browser	11:38
popey	$lots	11:39
MartijnVdS	penguin42: that's only 5.2G?	11:39
popey	mostly docs	11:39
popey	and launchpad tabs	11:39
MartijnVdS	popey: There seem to be 3 kinds of web browser users :)	11:39
popey	KiB Swap: 8267772 total, 4225476 used, 4042296 free, 759772 cached	11:39
MartijnVdS	popey: - Just one tab.	11:39
mungbean	close gmail facebook and g+ and twitter tabs	11:39
penguin42	MartijnVdS: It is once you compress the kittens	11:39
MartijnVdS	popey: - Several tabs, up to ~10	11:39
MartijnVdS	popey: - Millions of tabs, never closes any	11:40
mungbean	i am the person that uses between 10-50 tabs	11:40
popey	i have two separate browser sessions open, with about 50 in each	11:40
mungbean	i stop when i can't see the icons onthe tabs on a widescreen anymore	11:40
MartijnVdS	I stop when the tabs get less wide	11:40
MartijnVdS	(than default)	11:40
diddledan	I stop when I can't see or remember what they all are	11:41
diddledan	if I spend more time clicking through to find the one I want then I'm doing something wrong	11:41
diddledan	than it would take to just load the page anew**	11:41
mungbean	my brother asks: what the main diff between the different PS3: e.g 12GB and 500GB	11:41
popey	KiB Swap: 8267772 total, 3085900 used, 5181872 free, 898840 cached	11:41
popey	space	11:41
penguin42	Amazon's recommendation stuff is only slightly clever; it's recommending me a lot of stuff by people I already have 'greatest hits' type of things from and thus won't be buying more, but it's also offering me random 'Greatest Hits' CDs of stuff just because I have a lot of Greatest Hits	11:42
MartijnVdS	mungbean: Storage space for games (downloadable ones) and save games	11:42
mungbean	what would the 12gb one inhibit?	11:42
mungbean	is it hobbled by the small space	11:42
mungbean	he is considering buying one for his kids	11:42
penguin42	popey: htf do you find the tab you're interested in with 50 open?	11:42
MartijnVdS	mungbean: if he intends to download >1 game, yes.	11:42
mungbean	what happens if you want to download 3 games with a 12gb space?	11:43
mungbean	can you move them to external drives?	11:43
mungbean	or redownload them later?	11:43
mungbean	the 12gb is flash rather than HDD	11:44
popey	penguin42: i know where they are	11:45
MartijnVdS	mungbean: external drives might work	11:45
mungbean	is the 12gb better perf?	11:45
MartijnVdS	mungbean: redownloads work at least several times	11:45
MartijnVdS	mungbean: it's probably SSD, while the others are spinning rust	11:45
penguin42	12gb is an odd number	11:47
mungbean	mathematical it's even :P	11:47
mungbean	but maybe there are 4gb of system OS on it	11:48
MartijnVdS	nah not quite that much	11:48
diddledan	can you replace the disc used by the ps3?	11:51
mungbean	allegedly if you plug a HDD into it , then it can override the flash drive for you	11:51
mungbean	i only read that on the internet though, so could be wrong	11:52
diddledan	https://support.us.playstation.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/362	11:52
mungbean	are downloaded games any more or less expensive than the cheapest bluray based games?	11:53
MartijnVdS	mungbean: depends on the age of the game	11:54
MartijnVdS	mungbean: newest games will most likely be cheaper on disc (but lots of disc games also need to install several GB onto the hard disk)	11:55
MartijnVdS	mungbean: older games might be cheaper online	11:55
MartijnVdS	(but go on HD 100%)	11:55
mungbean	sounds hobbled if the games need several gb of space ?	11:56
popey	TheOpenSourcerer: what time is lunch?	12:09
TheOpenSourcerer	Whenever you are ready popey :-)	12:09
jussi	dammit, I want to come to lunch!	12:10
TheOpenSourcerer	Come on then jussi	12:11
TheOpenSourcerer	how far can Farnham be from you?	12:11
popey	ok, just waiting for cleaner to finish	12:12
jussi	TheOpenSourcerer: about 1900km	12:12
TheOpenSourcerer	Not far then.	12:12
jussi	hehe	12:13
jussi	bit far for lunch	12:13
diddledan	where'd all this rain come from suddenly?	12:21
shauno	ah, that might have been us	12:22
diddledan	it's widdling it	12:22
diddledan	shauno: have you been making clouds again?	12:22
MooDoo	or singing	12:22
diddledan	the local cloud generator is turned off now (didcot power station) or rather the cloud generating is no longer functioning	12:23
MartijnVdS	we have all the clouds here now :(	12:23
diddledan	it looks boring now. four massive cooling towers with nothing billowing out of them	12:24
diddledan	they've gone gas	12:24
diddledan	yey for more reliance on russia	12:24
jussi	oooh, cool news! http://gigaom.com/2013/11/06/facebook-open-sources-its-sql-on-hadoop-engine-and-the-web-rejoices/#!	12:25
diddledan	I'm sure that the web didn't rejoice	12:25
diddledan	I'm on the web, for e.g. and I didn't rejoice	12:26
* popey pings TheOpenSourcerer a pm		12:31
dwatkins	I was wondering how long it would take for them to shut down Didcot Power Station, diddledan - I grew up around there.	12:45
dwatkins	So there are two towers still being used?	12:46
diddledan	dwatkins: they've turned off the coal fires afaik but gas generation is still happening	12:46
dwatkins	I remember seeing the gigantic ball-bearings when we went on a tour of the site.	12:47
diddledan	the cooling towers aren't being used anymore, though	12:47
shauno	pedant, I usually say gas-fired or oil-fired, etc. 'gas generation' sounds like a job for Dominos	12:47
diddledan	shauno: they're generating using gas	12:47
=== iahmad is now known as iahmad\|afk
penguin42	oddly the UK seems to have been using more coal as of late	12:56
dwatkins	I imagine we have an expanding economy.	12:58
MartijnVdS	time to go nuclear!	12:59
mungbean	one more PS3 question: do they not support playing of ps2 games anymore?	12:59
MartijnVdS	mungbean: indeed, they do not.	12:59
dwatkins	depends on the model, mungbean	12:59
mungbean	recent	13:00
MartijnVdS	dwatkins: Newer models haven't supported PS2 games since '08	13:00
dwatkins	I had a really old original PS3 which would run PS2 games, but my new slim PS3 doesn't	13:00
mungbean	sucks	13:00
dwatkins	indeed, MartijnVdS & mungbean	13:00
mungbean	is there a way?	13:00
mungbean	i.e. download them	13:00
dwatkins	yeah, some games have been ported	13:00
penguin42	dwatkins: I think we've actually been using more coal to get it in before we're forced to switch it off, and because US coal became cheap to import	13:00
mungbean	like on the wii	13:00
dwatkins	there are emulators, of course	13:00
shauno	I think nuclear may actually be why moar coal. they've shutdown several reactors in the last 10 years (6?) but haven't brought any new ones online since the 80s	13:01
dwatkins	penguin42: oh my	13:01
penguin42	dwatkins: We're currently (last 30mins) running 38% coal, 34.4% gas, 15.8% nuke, 4.2% wind	13:01
dwatkins	interesting to know, thanks penguin42	13:01
dwatkins	we have a big wind farm just outside Edinburgh	13:01
penguin42	dwatkins: I've seen the wind figures peak at about 15% - but that's on a very windy day at the weekend when the useage is low	13:02
dwatkins	I wonder if solar and wind combined would provide enough power in theory	13:02
penguin42	dwatkins: Not a chance	13:03
dwatkins	you'd probably need massive farms of both, of course	13:03
dwatkins	ah ok	13:03
MartijnVdS	tidal..?	13:03
dwatkins	geothermal?	13:03
penguin42	dwatkins: http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/	13:03
shauno	dole recipients on bicycles?</dm>	13:03
dwatkins	neat, penguin42 - might put that up on one of the displays here	13:04
penguin42	dwatkins: tbh that does show compared with this time last year we are running more gas and less coal than last year	13:04
shauno	I totally advocate more nuclear power	13:04
penguin42	shauno: Hmm, I think it's unfortunately the only workable solution - but I keep it as an unfortunate	13:05
dwatkins	We'll run out of coal and gas eventually, and I suspecgt nuclear is the only viable alternative right now, since fusion power is a long way off.	13:05
dwatkins	*suspect	13:05
penguin42	dwatkins: The thing to watch on that thing is the monthly/yearly wind graphs - you sometimes get upto maybe 5GW for a few days, but then end up with a few days or a week at almost zilch - that's a hugre variation	13:06
mungbean	my EDF plan is "low carbon" which means more nuke	13:06
mungbean	although i suspect the people who get excited by low carbon aren't excited by more nuke	13:06
dwatkins	EDF, mungbean?	13:06
penguin42	mungbean: Yeh I think I had them for a while; it's nice how they show you the amount of radioactivity released per kwh in their docs	13:07
dwatkins	I'm excited by not running out of power.	13:07
mungbean	yes, edf blue i think is called	13:07
penguin42	dwatkins: Yeh well there's the problem	13:07
dwatkins	ah yes http://my.edfenergy.com/gas-electricity/compare-blue	13:07
dwatkins	indeed, penguin42 - I cycle to work, but I still use a lot of computers, of course.	13:07
penguin42	dwatkins: Note we also import about 3gw just over cable from france/dutch	13:08
dwatkins	Perhaps someday we'll all have to cycle at work as well.... http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1510207830/pedal-power-human-scale-energy-for-everyday-tasks	13:08
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g\|lunch
mungbean	just like in sim city eh penguin42	13:08
mungbean	what are the prices like for remastered Ps2 games on ps3 please?	13:10
mungbean	google not telling me yet	13:10
MartijnVdS	mungbean: look on PSN :)	13:11
MartijnVdS	€9,99ish on this side of the North Sea	13:12
MartijnVdS	mungbean: also www.psnprices.com	13:12
MooDoo	https://www.facebook.com/acdcxmas - help :D lol	13:14
mungbean	i got an email from tomtom about a satnav i bought about 4yrs ago	13:35
MartijnVdS	mungbean: spammy	13:36
mungbean	about an update. never heard from them before	13:36
mungbean	about easygpxfix	13:36
mungbean	Your TomTom device uses at least 4 satellite signals to check your position. But with QuickGPSfix, it locates you much quicker – so you can set off quicker, too.	13:36
mungbean	Within just 30 seconds, you’ll be able to start your journey, even in places where the GPS signal is weak or partially blocked.	13:36
mungbean	Better yet, you can download QuickGPSfix to your device right now for free. To upgrade, just click the button.	13:36
mungbean	need windows :(	13:36
MartijnVdS	ah, new ephemeris daat	13:37
MartijnVdS	data*	13:37
=== alan_g\|lunch is now known as alan_g
mgdm	mungbean: yeah, I got that too	13:38
mgdm	mungbean: I thought it was spam, but it had a picture of the device, and it's not exactly current	13:38
mungbean	yeah	13:41
mungbean	thats the device i have	13:41
mungbean	whats the cheapest way to get RAC/AA cover? quidco? tesco clubcard?	13:46
directhex	i get mine from toyota	13:49
mgdm	mungbean: I have heard that if you find them standing outside o Tesco or whereever you can haggle, but I've not tried it	13:51
mungbean	i didn't know that mgdm	13:52
mungbean	RAC prices on clubcard have rocketed	13:59
mungbean	and they are now doing a pricey renewal or lower price for "new members" even on clubcard	13:59
DJones	mungbean: Does it have to be RAC/AA? my Dad has been with one of the small ones for a few years, not sure of th service quality because he's never had to call them out, but prices were a lot cheaper	14:10
DJones	mungbean: http://www.insurancechoice.co.uk/breakdowncover/car-breakdown-cover	14:12
directhex	typically the smaller ones subcontract to your nearest local garage	14:12
directhex	meaning response times and service quality are random and potentially terrible	14:12
MartijnVdS	or, potentially, better than AA/RAC	14:13
directhex	potentially, yes	14:13
MartijnVdS	but that's unlikely	14:13
DJones	That one looks to be backed by AXA Insurance	14:13
DJones	But as you say, does look to subcontract to your local garage	14:14
bigcalm	2 fairly identical websites running on one server. 1 website is responding normally, the other is taking 30+ seconds to respond to requests. What might I look at to see what's wrong?	14:15
mgdm	error logs? DNS config?	14:15
mungbean	i went for RAC with tesco , £40	14:15
DJones	Thats something the industry I'm working in does, so its not something I'd have an issue with	14:15
mungbean	realised i was looking at the family prices rather than joint	14:15
shauno	tried pulling a static asset off each to isolate whether the wait is in the stack or the application?	14:16
bigcalm	Ta	14:16
shauno	(not an answer, but cuts the field in half)	14:16
bigcalm	Indeed	14:17
bigcalm	That was a quick enough response	14:17
bigcalm	So it's either the application or the database I guess	14:17
MartijnVdS	mungbean: I pay twice that/year, and I get full coverage across Europe	14:17
bigcalm	Have restarted both mysql and apache on the server. No change	14:18
mungbean	RAC european cover gives you a free breathalyser	14:19
MartijnVdS	bigcalm: one of the applications might be trying to connect to something it's not allowed to connect to (dropped packets)	14:19
mungbean	not sure what they are trying to say there	14:19
MartijnVdS	mungbean: for France, no doubt	14:19
MartijnVdS	mungbean: you're required to have one in your car there	14:19
mungbean	because wine comes out of the taps?	14:19
mungbean	really? wow	14:19
mungbean	TIL	14:19
mungbean	even if you don't drink?	14:19
MartijnVdS	yes	14:20
mungbean	lame	14:20
MartijnVdS	even if you never use it	14:20
mgdm	You could be like the guy who claimed he never drank but was 3 times over the limit when caught, due to "having eaten 1kg of raspberries"	14:20
MartijnVdS	mgdm: hmm.. fermented raspberries	14:21
shauno	there's a whole kit the french require you to keep handy	14:21
mungbean	garlic?	14:21
mgdm	http://news.stv.tv/tayside/251867-theres-something-funny-about-this-drunk-driver-who-blamed-raspberries-on-alcohol-reading-banned/	14:21
mungbean	string of oignons	14:21
mgdm	"Former Royal Marine Cook said he had been teetotal for 50 years but had unwittingly eaten raspberries which were equivalent to ten pints of beer."	14:22
shauno	flozzy jacket, warning triangle, stuff like that	14:23
daftykins	reply from my ISP about those router resets - they claim they moved everyone to PPPoE	14:25
* TheOpenSourcerer has another Alan in Libertus towers this afternoon...		14:26
daftykins	:o	14:26
daftykins	how do you keep finding them XD	14:27
TheOpenSourcerer	You can never have enough alans	14:27
daftykins	i'm beginning to think it's a job requirement for your company :)	14:27
TheOpenSourcerer	That would be descriminatory	14:28
MooDoo	daftykins: it's part of the contract, must change name to alan after 30 days of the start of your contract.	14:29
daftykins	:D	14:29
daftykins	and nobody reads before signing :(	14:29
=== MooDoo is now known as Alan-MooDoo
Alan-MooDoo	this better?	14:30
TheOpenSourcerer	:-)	14:30
TheOpenSourcerer	Not sure about the "MooDoo2 bit though Alan-MooDoo	14:30
Alan-MooDoo	come one everyone change your nick to alan-<nick> :)	14:30
shauno	is name actually protected by the equality act?	14:30
daftykins	Welcome aboard Alan, now we shall proceed to step 2 of the training. Introductions!	14:30
daftykins	Alan, you already know this Alan but may I introduce Alan?	14:30
Alan-MooDoo	hi I'm alan	14:31
MartijnVdS	daftykins: indoctrinations*	14:31
daftykins	Alan Alan, Alan Alan.	14:31
=== Alan-MooDoo is now known as MooDoo
daftykins	fired so soon :(	14:33
daftykins	;)	14:34
MooDoo	quit, crap bosses, they wanted to take me to the pub...i don't come to work to go down the pub ;)	14:35
daftykins	:D	14:36
MartijnVdS	also, your last name isn't 4 letters long	14:36
* popey waves from Libertus Towers		14:36
MooDoo	was never going to work, it's me not you.	14:36
MartijnVdS	popey: *Alan Towers	14:37
MartijnVdS	popey: "HQ of the Alan Invasion"	14:37
daftykins	Motto: "One of us, one of us..."	14:37
MooDoo	http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Alan_kingdom_hispania.png	14:37
MooDoo	an old image showing the kingdom of the alans	14:38
daftykins	:O	14:38
MartijnVdS	http://i.imgur.com/DYgbzQr.png	14:38
daftykins	MooDoo: old because they now cover more land?!	14:38
popey	ooh thats near where my dad lived	14:38
daftykins	Alan Sr. ?	14:38
popey	Peter	14:38
daftykins	:D	14:38
TheOpenSourcerer	The yellow: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Alani_map.jpg	14:39
MooDoo	i want this - http://www.force18.co.uk/images/tee-alan-tshirt-black.jpg	14:39
TheOpenSourcerer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans	14:39
MooDoo	or this - http://www.stupid.com/assets/images/the_hangover_my_name_is_alan_tshirt_1.jpg	14:39
TheOpenSourcerer	The Alans were a big tribe man :-)	14:39
MartijnVdS	TheOpenSourcerer: the "History of English podcast" talks about them for several episodes	14:39
davmor2	MooDoo: I knew you were old but admitting you know about the Kingdom of Alans really dates you :)	14:40
MooDoo	davmor2: I'm as old as the alans :)	14:41
TheOpenSourcerer	You are not old as me.	14:41
TheOpenSourcerer	I am the oldest (and hopefully wisest) amongst us ;-)	14:41
MooDoo	TheOpenSourcerer: depends how old :)	14:42
TheOpenSourcerer	1965	14:42
MooDoo	you are then :D	14:42
MartijnVdS	Alan the Ancient	14:42
MooDoo	I'm a 70's kid :)	14:42
MartijnVdS	1980 hero	14:43
popey	I can now see how much work gets done at Libertus Solutions post-lunch	14:43
MooDoo	makes me want to work there even more now :D	14:43
MooDoo	change my name to alan, have fun on a friday....sounds bliss ;)	14:43
TheOpenSourcerer	Told you so. I have tales of yore that I could tell you all. But forsooth, I must proceed with my ramblings elsewhere.	14:43
davmor2	MooDoo: best time to grow up it means you were old enough to appreciate when all the good music happened :D	14:44
MooDoo	davmor2: unless it's led zeppelin or pink flloyd then it's all crap	14:44
MartijnVdS	davmor2: hey, I was 10 when the first 90s music came out ;)	14:44
MooDoo	;)	14:44
* TheOpenSourcerer is going to see Letz Zep tomorrow night :-)		14:44
MooDoo	you'll be dazed and confused after that	14:45
daftykins	TheOpenSourcerer: :D sounds fun	14:45
davmor2	MooDoo: yeah but then your parents had all that on LP so you got the best of the best all round :P	14:45
MooDoo	davmor2: we don't mention lp's that my parents own, it's a sore subject in our house	14:46
daftykins	MooDoo: may i add Black Sabbath to that list	14:46
MooDoo	daftykins: of course	14:46
daftykins	i've been listening a lot lately \o/	14:46
davmor2	MooDoo: well if you would use them a Frisbees then it would be :P	14:47
MooDoo	davmor2: pretty much something like that, one was an original copy of help by the beatles...which is worth about £50 to £100 nowadays at least I think it was help.	14:47
MooDoo	oh some lp that's worth a bit now	14:48
MartijnVdS	MooDoo: "Help".. me pay my rent	14:48
davmor2	MooDoo: I wore out My mom's copy of War of the Worlds listening to it :D That went down well I can tell you :D	14:50
MartijnVdS	davmor2: No one would have believed..	14:50
MooDoo	MartijnVdS: lol	14:51
davmor2	MartijnVdS: In the last years of the nineteenth century	14:51
MartijnVdS	davmor2: my dad put it on tape for me to listen to, didn't trust me with vinyl ;)	14:52
davmor2	MartijnVdS: Of course now I'm going to have to drop the CD into this box and listen to it :D	14:53
popey	anyone fancy testing a game I made in scratch, and give constructive critique?	15:03
popey	it's not finished ☻	15:03
popey	http://popey.com/~alan/typing.sb if you have 5 mins. press numbers as they fall down the screen. if they get to the bottom you lose, if you type the wrong one it gets faster	15:03
popey	need to fiddle the difficulty a little and add a title screen and level selection i think.	15:03
bigcalm	What's a .sb?	15:04
bigcalm	Oh, scratch	15:04
MooDoo	popey: er how you run this on windows machines, it doesn't seem to want to run in the browser? I'm being thick	15:07
awilkins	Scratch has it's own runtime	15:07
awilkins	Although they are working on a browser version	15:07
MooDoo	oh right	15:07
popey	you need to install scratch	15:08
MooDoo	yeah ok thanks	15:08
TheOpenSourcerer	scratch 2 is browser based I think.	15:13
daftykins	too many damn plugins	15:14
popey	yeah, is horrid	15:14
popey	its flash based, the new one	15:14
popey	stupid stupid	15:15
daftykins	D:	15:15
daftykins	didn't they say HTML5 was going to solve all of this by now? :D	15:16
popey	it has for many	15:16
popey	see all those apple and android devices which have no flash	15:16
daftykins	this is true	15:16
daftykins	though that's mostly just video for now i guess	15:16
popey	yeah	15:17
daftykins	i just put IE11 on in a VM, heh	15:19
bigcalm	modern.ie?	15:19
daftykins	er, not sure what you mean	15:20
bigcalm	Never mind then :)	15:20
daftykins	i looked it up and found the site... :D	15:20
bigcalm	http://www.modern.ie/en-US/virtualization-tools#downloads	15:21
daftykins	oic	15:21
daftykins	nah i just setup a clean win7 VM to see if it still annoyingly needed a net connection to install, which it does	15:21
daftykins	hahaha a friend just linked me to this, just to continue the Alan theme...	15:28
daftykins	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Loi-cTSQy2Q	15:28
daftykins	:D	15:28
Myrtti	yes.	15:29
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g\|afk
* bigcalm plays "hunt the pixel" while trying to increase a window's height using the top edge		15:51
TheOpenSourcerer	That's "design" :-D	15:53
MartijnVdS	bigcalm: alt+middle drag	15:53
daftykins	they are far too specific margins	15:54
bigcalm	MartijnVdS: ta	15:55
bigcalm	I already use alt + drag for moving around any way :)	15:56
=== alan_g\|afk is now known as alan_g
BigRedS	MartijnVdS: thanks!	17:00
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g\|EOW
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
mungbean	"A new Bloomberg report suggests that Stephen Elop, who's apparently on the short list of candidates to replace Steve Ballmer as Microsoft's CEO, would eliminate company projects such as Xbox and Bing while focusing resources on Office.	20:09
penguin42	mungbean: I think they'd make a fortune if they released Office on Android	20:11
mungbean	nah	20:13
mungbean	who wants to pay for office products?	20:13
brobostigon	there is a version of office for android.	20:14
penguin42	where?	20:14
penguin42	mungbean: unfortunately they've still got their stuff a lot more 'just works' than anything else	20:15
brobostigon	microshaft office mobile,	20:15
brobostigon	penguin42: search google play, its there.	20:16
penguin42	brobostigon: Is that local on on the 365 stuff?	20:17
brobostigon	penguin42: local ?	20:17
penguin42	brobostigon: Editing files on the android device rather than on the 365 cloud?	20:22
brobostigon	penguin42: from the description, it implies it is on device editing,	20:22
penguin42	brobostigon: Hmm ok, yeh then that's good	20:22
brobostigon	ok,	20:24
Azelphur	for those who were interested in the inputs.io hack the other day, turns out it was hosted by linode, so this would be the second time linode has been compromised and had a bitcoin hijack	20:58
Azelphur	xD	20:58
daftykins	D:	20:58
daftykins	that's good of them	20:58
Azelphur	indeed	20:58
diddledan	are my credit card details safe?	21:07
Azelphur	diddledan: shrug	21:08
Azelphur	probably, but they mostly use a payment processor don't they?	21:08
ali1234	Azelphur: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6384374/	21:11
Azelphur	hello python	21:11
ali1234	you have to idle in #bitcoin-market with pidgin to make it work	21:11
Azelphur	bitcoin ticker?	21:11
Azelphur	ah :)	21:11
Azelphur	doesn't bitcoin-market use gox?	21:12
ali1234	all exchanges	21:12
Azelphur	cool	21:12
ali1234	you can filter whatever you want, see line 69	21:12
ali1234	and 61	21:12
ali1234	and 53	21:13
Azelphur	:)	21:13
ali1234	i should make that use a dictionary really	21:13
Azelphur	ali1234: cashed out a bit to pay my bills and bought myself a sony smartwatch, btw :P	21:15
ali1234	is it good?	21:16
Azelphur	dunno, arrives tomorrow	21:17
Azelphur	hopefully :)	21:17
diddledan	ooh, those sony watches look interesting	21:19
Azelphur	indeed, the v2 runs android	21:19
diddledan	the galaxy gear apparently requires recharging every 12 hours	21:19
ali1234	"what time is it?" "time to charge my smartwatch"	21:19
diddledan	and only works with the note	21:19
Azelphur	haha	21:20
Azelphur	I'm generally cool with once a day charging on things (while I sleep)	21:20
ali1234	"why is my wrist so hot?" "oh"	21:20
Azelphur	Sony one supposedly does up to 6 days, or 3 on heavy use	21:20
Azelphur	so I'm cool with that.	21:20
diddledan	yeah, I tend to charge my phone daily whether it needs it or not	21:20
Azelphur	yea, it's my evening ritual, I put everything on charge before I go to sleep	21:21
diddledan	it's part of my ritual	21:21
Azelphur	haha	21:21
diddledan	heh jinx	21:21
Azelphur	Headset, N7, N7 HD, N4, EasyAcc battery, and now smartwatch	21:21
Azelphur	charge all the things >.<	21:21
diddledan	not enough sockets, gah	21:22
Azelphur	diddledan: I fixed that	21:22
diddledan	hehe	21:22
Azelphur	https://www.dropbox.com/s/x25eayunda52zcz/2013-10-31%2022.49.10.jpg	21:22
diddledan	I am toiling with the idea of getting the new nexus7 to replace my old one	21:22
Azelphur	https://www.dropbox.com/s/x25eayunda52zcz/2013-10-31%2022.49.10.jpg	21:22
Azelphur	diddledan: I have both, I certainly like the new one, better at games and lighter :)	21:23
Azelphur	I got it because it was on special offer, so cheap it was hard to turn dow	21:23
Azelphur	n	21:23
diddledan	I kinda want the 10 tho but that's last year's tech	21:23
Azelphur	hehe	21:23
Azelphur	I got my N7 HD for £170 :)	21:24
Azelphur	(32GB edition, no cell)	21:24
diddledan	that's cheaper than the base model from google play	21:24
Azelphur	by far, indeed :)	21:24
Myrtti	♥ http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/10743095875/	21:30
Azelphur	fun :)	21:30
Myrtti	fits the champagne case thingy I've got for it ♥	21:30
Azelphur	:D	21:30
Azelphur	Myrtti: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8r8fsor566cz5tt/2013-11-08%2021.32.18.png?m mine is boring :P	21:33
Myrtti	yeah my N7 looks boring too	21:34
Azelphur	My N4 is just messy https://www.dropbox.com/s/prwe77skokm5956/2013-11-08%2021.35.05.png?m	21:36
diddledan	ergh. why does netflix have to use silverlight?!	21:40
mgdm	DRM	21:44
diddledan	I have a sneaky suspicion that netflix thinks I'm somewhere other than the UK	21:45
diddledan	when I logged in it prompted me to tell me that the collection may be different in different countries "while you're travelling"	21:45
diddledan	and now it's broken	21:47
diddledan	fudge	21:47
diddledan	ho hum	21:49
diddledan	I guess I shan't be watching any movies this eve	21:49
Myrtti	Azelphur: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/10748701113/	21:53
Azelphur	Myrtti: nice	21:54
Azelphur	you should see my old nexus 7, the king of unorganised	21:54
Azelphur	https://www.dropbox.com/s/k9yabrrd2ct7lew/2013-11-08%2021.55.02.png?m	21:55
Azelphur	what is this organisation you speak of.	21:55
brobostigon	woop, new QI	22:02
Azelphur	If something is IP57 rated, does that mean it'll survive in the shower and in the rain?	22:09
ali1234	yes, for 30 minutes	22:19
Azelphur	fun	22:25
daftykins	got the weirdest situation going on here	22:33
daftykins	one of my friends lives on Guernsey as well, but a couple live in England	22:34
daftykins	that one local friend can't join any Xbox Live parties or games hosted by someone in England	22:34
daftykins	there has to be at least one other Guern on O_O	22:34
daftykins	it's not even due to UPnP or NAT status of his console	22:34
ali1234	what is a xbox live party?	22:35
daftykins	it just doesn't seem to want him to be friends with English peeps :D	22:35
daftykins	it's a collection of users on voice chat	22:35
daftykins	damn it, i just had them both join a game i'd setup - but they both had connection timeouts	22:37
daftykins	(playing GTA V)	22:37
=== LjL is now known as LjLtheUbuntuFixe
gordonjcp	I was just playing GTA V	22:51
=== LjLtheUbuntuFixe is now known as LjL-UbuntuFixer
daftykins	gordonjcp: online or single?	22:54
gordonjcp	online	22:54
daftykins	vewy gewd	22:54
daftykins	i'm just doing some races with friends now	22:54
* penguin42 pokes deman5 with a sharp stick		23:26
penguin42	<sigh>	23:40
=== webpigeon is now known as Guest51303

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