[00:31] <shauno> if your qemu host can't get past a specific test, doesn't that prove that "it's 2013" isn't a valid test?
[00:32] <penguin42> shauno: No, it's qemu multithreading that's the bug
[00:33] <shauno> it's still created a build root that isn't usable though
[00:34] <shauno> I do wish autoconf had some idea how modern distros worked though.  it could use something like that 'command not found' hook that ubuntu uses, rather than print out a header file it couldn't find
[00:35] <penguin42> shauno: cnf only does commands as far as I'm aware, apt-file can find headers although there can be multiple answers and I don't think there is much cross-distro - although I think there are some packagekit hooks
[00:37] <shauno> I'm not sure it really needs to be cross distro
[00:38] <shauno> eg, bash4 provides the command_not_found_handle.  if it's not set, it reverts to its default behaviour.  that's a sane model
[00:38] <shauno> let each distro ship their own handlers for that, and fall back to pretending its the 80s if it's unavailable
[00:41] <shauno> just feels like there has to be a better answer than just printing "...no"
[01:01] <penguin42> hmm where did that net conenction go
[07:09] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:10] <shauno> o/
[07:32] <MooDoo> I see everyone is going nuts over https://fixubuntu.com/
[07:33] <jussi> MooDoo: I honestly dont care (and dont think canonical have a case, as its clearly in the fair use domain)
[07:33] <MooDoo> jussi: me neither to be honest, just makes me laugh how people go so overboard.
[07:34] <jussi> MooDoo: ++
[07:34] <MooDoo> domain issue aside, if you don't like feature of the dashboard disable it....no need for the "i'm moving to fedora/debian" diatribe that i've been seeing.
[07:35] <MooDoo> climbs off soapbox ;)
[07:36] <jussi> MooDoo: ++ (again)
[07:36] <jussi> see, for me, I just use Kubuntu
[07:36] <jussi> (although, I do like the unity menu thing,  even with amazon, and Id love to see a port that works on kubuntu)
[07:39] <MooDoo> to be honest canonical can do what they want with their os, 1 it's theirs, and 1, its opensource, if you don't like stuff remove it or disable it....simples....
[07:43] <shauno> I must admit that approach makes me uneasy.  if anyone else did it, people would be crying blue murder
[07:44] <MooDoo> Still think it's overkill :D but then again, it's one way of getting people to your site ;)
[07:48] <shauno> I guess I have almost the polar opposite view on it.  I think selling privacy for adbucks is overkill, and find myself with less trust in canonical than I do apple or microsoft
[07:49] <MooDoo> yeah it's crap, it should be opt-in not opt out
[07:50] <jussi> mind, we all do pretty much the same thign everyday when we search with google
[07:50] <MooDoo> yeah, I just think people want something else to moan about :)
[07:54] <shauno> would it be 'moaning' if anyone else at all did it?
[07:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
[07:55] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: but how long before they REMOVE the ability to disable the featuer?!
[07:55] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: good morning, how's your crowdfunding campaign going?
[07:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK :-D
[07:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5292412
[07:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's over 30%
[07:56] <MartijnVdS> cool!
[07:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> And it's been running for less that three full days.
[07:56] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: gods dammit I'll move to debian ;)
[07:56] <diplo> Morning all
[07:56] <MooDoo> morning diplo
[07:57] <shauno> MooDoo: I already am.  I've gone from 6 ubuntu machines, to 5 debian machines and 1 ubuntu.  and the last one will move when I can no longer get updates for 10.04
[07:57] <MooDoo> shauno: how come you moved?
[07:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - I remember 10:10 desktop with great fondness. Reckon that the was the best, most stable release evah.
[07:58] <shauno> because canonical have done almost nothing I can agree with in years.  taking an honest stab at the phone might have been the only plus point
[07:58] <MooDoo> shauno: fair enough :)
[08:00] <MooDoo> shauno: how you finding debian?  like the gnome interface?
[08:00]  * jussi is still on Kubuntu - it nice :)
[08:00] <shauno> heh, I actually just discovered a VM had been upgraded to gnome3 last night.  that was awkward
[08:02] <AlanBell> I quite liked gnome shell when I was using it
[08:03] <AlanBell> but Unity in 13.10 is mostly OK
[08:04] <AlanBell> the dash is still annoying, I don't like the way all the icons move about as you try to click on them
[08:04] <jussi> AlanBell: true, that bit is annoying
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> I just really don't like the global menu. I mean WTF? I have a small gedit window open, or nautilus. And I have to traverse the entire screen to get to the bloody menu? It's just a stupid idea.
[08:06] <AlanBell> because different scopes keep adding results, so super, "plu" gives me a google plus web link icon, for about a second, then the files and folders scope moves it down and I click on the "plugins" folder
[08:06] <AlanBell> and I don't like the global menu, that is just a copy of a fail
[08:06] <jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: HUD?
[08:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Never use it. Can't get the hang of it.
[08:06] <AlanBell> HUD is a reasonable concept, but I never use it
[08:07] <MartijnVdS> I've even disabled the hotkey because I kept opening it by accident
[08:07] <AlanBell> abstracting menu options into a common API is a good thing, but there should be more innovative menu operating things
[08:07] <AlanBell> like circular menus and so on
[08:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> And whilst we're on a roll <rant> have you noticed in 13.10 that evince doesn;t do the global menu. You have to click the little cog on the far right of it's window to get at it. lol
[08:09] <MartijnVdS> that's because Gnome 3 hates menus even more than Unity/Ubuntu does
[08:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> And nautilus for that matter
[08:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> So now we have some windows where the menu is up the top and some where it isn't. Great.
[08:11] <MartijnVdS> complain to the design team
[08:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> They won't listen - it's not design. It's usability.
[08:11] <AlanBell> who will remove the menus, because they don't look pretty
[08:12] <shauno> I've found complaining doesn't actually work.  they have a target user they're aiming for - and they're not linux users
[08:13] <MooDoo> I suspect this is the time for AlanOS
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Has a lovely ring to it don't you think?
[08:14] <MooDoo> yes
[08:14] <AlanBell> no
[08:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Slightly greek/classical sounding ;-)
[08:14] <shauno> the first release has to be 'Morissette'  ;)
[08:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[08:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Very good.
[08:15] <AlanBell> gosh, someone else got thealans.com thought we had that
[08:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol - nah I let it go when it was up for renewal.
[08:16] <AlanBell> I approve of the current use though
[08:16] <AlanBell> first time I have ever seen a lapsed domain go to a non-spammy use
[08:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> But they have band members not called Alan!!!
[08:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> And they use that peculiar spelling with 2 ll
[08:17] <Alan28> does this help?
[08:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[08:17] <AlanBell> heh
[08:17] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you're not an Alan!
[08:17] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I can be....We all can be alans....I plesge allegiance to the alans....;)
[08:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> If MooDoo want's to be an Alan he can be MartijnVdS
[08:18] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: \o/
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> sorry s/want's/wants
[08:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> How many feel like doing this but never do? https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LizQuilty/posts/9QMq9BNSoLL
[08:26] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: i'm doing it now ;)
[08:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[08:38] <popey> Morning.
[08:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
[08:38] <MooDoo> morning popey
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> I just learnt about "The Streisand Effect"...
[08:55] <SuperMatt> hurr
[08:55] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you can't stop listening now, can you!
[08:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> ?
[08:56] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Streisand. Horrible music.
[08:56] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: it was named after barbara
[08:56] <MooDoo> the effect that is
[08:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
[08:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Fortunately MartijnVdS I know so little of her songs that it's not enough to trigger an earworm.
[08:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Unlike AlanBell's link the other week that had me silently humming "Shopping at Lidl's" for days!
[08:58] <AlanBell> its a cut price shopping wonderland
[08:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[08:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> NOOOOOOOO!
[08:58] <AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKsGKERivTQ for those not yet initiated
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> another weekend lost
[09:00]  * TheOpenSourcerer returns from getting coffee determined NOT to click on AlanBell's Link.
[09:05] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: click it, you know you want too...
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> no.
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> I can be strong.
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> I will survive.
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Argghhh... Elkie Brooks!
[09:07] <DJones> Heh, this reminds me of the Only Fools & Horses episode http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-24854508
[09:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol - love the bit of unnecessary padding "After a scuffle in the toilet roll aisle..."
[09:09] <DJones> Didn't think that bit was really necessary
[09:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> No it wasn't after i'd read the rest ;-(
[09:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry - I think it was fine actually. It was pertinent to the tweet info later on.
[09:14] <SuperMatt> http://www.supermatt.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/1399717_10153419218185464_671733594_o.jpg got a free new t-shirt last night ;)
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: what did you have to give to facebook for that?
[09:14] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: morning, how'd you get that?
[09:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> His soul...
[09:14] <MooDoo> what MartijnVdS said ;)
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> bank statement history for the past 7 years?
[09:15] <SuperMatt> just some of my time and attention
[09:15] <SuperMatt> and maybe I'll send me CV over too
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> so.. you're a masochist :)
[09:15] <SuperMatt> oh god no, from what I saw last night, facebook is a fantastic place to work
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> I've heard it's a bit creepy at times, no work/private life separation allowed or something
[09:16] <DJones> Must admit, I don't think I'd have posted the link in a logged channel, the photo has been now been copied and its evidence will be held against you for the rest of your life
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> or "discouraged"
[09:16] <bashrc> Personally, I wouldn't touch Facebook with the proverbial barge pole
[09:17] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: think i'd prefer google, rackspace
[09:17] <awilkins> Google sounds a bit corporate now TBH
[09:17] <awilkins> 20% time notwithstanding
[09:17] <bashrc> Google's glory days are over
[09:17] <awilkins> Valve
[09:17] <SuperMatt> 20% time is dead
[09:17] <awilkins> That's where I'd like to work
[09:17] <directhex> valve is not an easy place to get a job
[09:17] <awilkins> Valve, where 100% of time is "do what you think you is best" time
[09:17] <awilkins> Yeah, that's the downside
[09:18] <MooDoo> awilkins: I read an article about that the other day.
[09:18] <MooDoo> well I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to work for the alans ;) lol
[09:18] <awilkins> Being awesome enough to get into Valve, moving to 'merca against my better judgement
[09:18] <awilkins> Alans?
[09:18] <awilkins> Alan Sugar?
[09:18] <MooDoo> awilkins: TheOpenSourcerer and AlanBell
[09:18] <AlanBell> deed poll is the way forward
[09:18] <MooDoo> :D
[09:18] <awilkins> Are they Canonicalites?
[09:19] <MartijnVdS> Canonicalistas is the preferred term now
[09:19] <DJones> No, thats the Alan
[09:19] <MooDoo> awilkins: no they run their own business
[09:19] <DJones> other
[09:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> Have we got your cv MooDoo?
[09:19] <bashrc> Do they pray at the alter of shuttle?
[09:19] <popey> ʘ‿ಠ
[09:19] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: I was joking and no you don't :D
[09:20] <MooDoo> and for awilkins benefit, it's http://www.libertus.co.uk/
[09:20] <awilkins> TheOpenSourcerer, If you want my CV you can have it
[09:20] <awilkins> :-P
[09:20] <AlanBell> awilkins: enquiries@libertus.co.uk
[09:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> We are always interested.
[09:20] <bashrc> My CV is currently deprecated
[09:20] <MooDoo> omg and I didn't even have to look up the url, sheesh
[09:20] <awilkins> I'm a Java dev at the moment but hold it against me
[09:21] <AlanBell> any language is fine, learning new languages is not a big deal
[09:21] <awilkins> Indeed, it's about mental flexibility
[09:22] <MooDoo> i'm more customer support/team leader which i'm doing now
[09:22] <AlanBell> mostly we do PHP and Python stuff, but we are not language based specialists, we do implementing open source business applications
[09:23] <awilkins> Working for the NHS I always wanted to start an "Office of LibreOffice Development"
[09:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> We've just closed the 1st quarter of the new financial year for Libertus and it was a revenue record. :-D
[09:24] <AlanBell> LibreOffice turns out not to be something we get asked about, people either use it or they don't
[09:24] <awilkins> When we canned the enterprise-wide agreement for MS Office I did some napkin sums and concluded that we could really put some serious contributions into LibreOffice for a fraction of the money
[09:24] <MooDoo> you need satalite offices around the country ;)
[09:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> That includes August
[09:24] <awilkins> Yeah, LibreOffice would require quite a lot of specialist investment that would be beyond most small enterprises
[09:24] <awilkins> But the NHS would be a great fit for an org with enough inertia to put the effort in
[09:25] <bashrc> yes
[09:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> for most smes I don;t think relacing a legacy desktop app for another legacy desktop app is worth the time or cost of retraining frankly. Unless there are thousands of seats involved the ROI just sin't there.
[09:25] <awilkins> When you think we must have been / still be spending  on the order of 9 figures on MS Office licenses, 5% of that is a lot of cash
[09:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> awilkins: You involved in Spine2?
[09:26] <awilkins> Which is of course why they stopped the single-line-item enterprise wide agreement
[09:26] <awilkins> cos it would have been a huge budgetary target.
[09:26] <AlanBell> and it was on the cabinet office budget
[09:26] <awilkins> TheOpenSourcerer, Not involved in Spine2 ; considered it when the internal job ads came out, Linux / Python being in my quiver
[09:27] <awilkins> My current focus is on collaborative work on specialist domain models ; want to foster the same kind of workflows you see in the Linux kernel development team
[09:28] <awilkins> Which means both developing the VCS tools further than just tools to manage text files and also "devolve" the content tools more towards formats designed to facilitate merges
[09:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Have you seens what's coming in Owncloud 6?
[09:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Or played with Alfresco?
[09:29] <awilkins> Nope ; I heard some hints that obeo.fr want to do the same sort of thing from the stuff they are poiting on the JGit mailing lists
[09:29]  * awilkins bookmarks
[09:30] <bashrc> I think there's a plan for collaborative document editing
[09:30] <AlanBell> Alfresco is a UK based company that really should be a bit more noticed in the UK
[09:30] <AlanBell> as is Canonical
[09:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Changing the subject completely... Did anyone watch the BBC2 thing on population yesterday?
[09:31] <awilkins> TheOpenSourcerer, More about the very stringent peer-reviewed kind of process that the kernel employs - and not just about documents
[09:31] <bashrc> no.  Is there a population shortage?
[09:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> No but the perceived problem of too many peeps may well be not an issue. According to the (very plausible) presenter
[09:32] <awilkins> I do tools for the huge sets of codes and other information models supposed to be used for electronic health records
[09:33] <MooDoo> awilkins: you after a job or somethig ;)
[09:35] <awilkins> MooDoo, A bit bored and frustrated with work at the moment :-)
[09:35] <MooDoo> awilkins: where you work at the moment?
[09:35] <awilkins> What used to be the NHS IT programme
[09:35] <MooDoo> ok, nothing about at the moment?
[09:36] <awilkins> What, nothing HERE?
[09:37] <MooDoo> I meant, are you struggling to find other jobs?  as I might be looking next year...
[09:37] <MooDoo> is there a lot of jobs available from what you've seen?
[09:38] <awilkins> Hmm, well, I'm always getting mails from the job vultures
[09:38] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: yay linkedin, I guess?
[09:38] <MooDoo> don't we all
[09:38] <awilkins> Not really LinkedIn so much
[09:38] <awilkins> Just the various people who stuck me in a database at one time or another
[09:38] <awilkins> But I rarely move jobs, been in this one for > 7 yrs
[09:38] <MooDoo> awilkins: sounds like me, this is my 8th year
[09:39] <awilkins> There's certainly plenty of work that I could DO, much less work that I would be actually interested in doing.
[09:39] <awilkins> Anything that says "financial services industry" goes straight in the bin
[09:39] <MooDoo> why don't we start ubuntu uk support i'm sure libertus solutions could fund us ;)
[09:41] <awilkins> I applied for a post at Canonical for doing their Windows client for Ubuntu One once ; what I really want to do is fix proxy support for Ubuntu
[09:41] <awilkins> Enterprise proxy support in particular
[09:41] <awilkins> Of course, I want to do it because I'm trapped behind one at work
[09:42] <awilkins> That particular itch would evaporate if I wasn't working on a network stuck behind an ISA server :-)
[09:42] <MooDoo> I look at the canonical careers page now and again
[09:42] <awilkins> But it staggers me the AWFUL proxy support for what you would think were core Ubuntu applications
[09:42] <awilkins> Barely anything outside the browser supports PAC scripts
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> because not everyone and their dog links in a javascript engine
[09:43] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, My take on that is to offer a system proxy service instead
[09:43] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: that would be best, but then you'd have to convince a LOT of people to use that service (everything that now just parses http_proxy env vars)
[09:43] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Why? It's just another proxy
[09:44] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Set the env variable to it's local port
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> that would probably work
[09:44] <bigcalm> Anybody want a steam key for Deponia?
[09:44] <awilkins> Then you could focus on doing it well ONCE
[09:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> This might be up someone's street - Bloody good salary: http://www.linuxrecruit.co.uk/jobs/details/linux-consultant-london/
[09:44] <awilkins> Support all the funky Windows auth schemes, etc
[09:45] <awilkins> Shiny, not a bad salary, shame about the Big Smoke
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: it'd only need to be a small program, just parse incoming URLs, match against PAC using some JS engine, and do what's required
[09:45] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Yup
[09:45] <awilkins> And support SOCKS
[09:46] <awilkins> And also support socks-ifying processes for things that don't even support proxies at all
[09:46] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: tsocks already exists for that
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: LD_PRELOAD h4x0ring
[09:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> Need to reboot. bbl
[09:46] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Yeah, I use tsocks / SSH for many things (including this IRC session)_
[09:47] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy X-Ray Day! :-D
[09:48]  * MartijnVdS X-rays JamesTait 
[09:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> That didn't take long did it?
[09:48] <awilkins> I mean, currently, the "get me the proxy" call or whatever for Ubuntu will just pass the PAC URL if one is configured
[09:48] <awilkins> It should just pass the local proxy-proxy URL instead if you define a PAC script as the proxy source
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it worked!
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: sounds reasonable
[09:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[09:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> But I am running out of space on my SSD :-(
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: you could even make hooks in the local-proxy so it can run transparently without a .pac file (allowing you to sniff your own HTTP requests more easily than with wireshark)
[09:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> /dev/sda1        52G   48G  1.3G  98% /
[09:50] <awilkins> I see the problem, TheOpenSourcerer, your SSD is tiny
[09:50] <awilkins> Get a 128GB one.
[09:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yes.
[09:51] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: move /var/log off there
[09:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have just gone to eBuyer.
[09:51] <MartijnVdS> Prices for 256G SSDs are down a lot these days
[09:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> I can get rid of quite a bit of cruft but 60G aint much these days...
[09:52] <awilkins> I was managing with 64GB but having to do things like keep my music on a separate thumb drive
[09:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.ebuyer.com/387080-sandisk-128gb-pulse-ssd-slim-sdssdp-128g-g25
[09:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> £65 lol
[09:53] <directhex> i wouldn't buy an SSD smaller than 240G these days
[09:54] <directhex> but i play a lot of games
[09:54] <directhex> team fortress 2 alone is 13G
[09:54] <directhex> metro last light is 9G
[09:54] <awilkins> I just have a 3TB spinning rust disk for that
[09:55] <SuperMatt> I'm waiting for a nicely priced £500G, then I'll whip all the drives out of my pc, stick them in a nas, and use the 500G for games
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> directhex: doesn't that share a lot with the other Source-engine games though?
[09:55] <awilkins> Games are "big bursty files" oriented for the most part
[09:55] <awilkins> Not "little tidgy random access" files
[09:55] <directhex> MartijnVdS, there is no longer any sharing between source engine games
[09:55] <popey> yeah, my laptop ssd is 240GB and is getting tight
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> directhex: not even if they share the same year/version of the engine?
[09:56] <popey> /dev/sda1            213G  195G  7.0G  97% /
[09:56] <SuperMatt> roffle
[09:56] <awilkins> /dev/sdb1       162G   61G   93G  40% /
[09:56]  * popey runs baobab
[09:56] <directhex> MartijnVdS, nope
[09:57] <directhex> MartijnVdS, sharing used to work with the old storage/download format. it doesn't work since the "steampipe" format
[09:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Is there much difference between brands and performance and reliability etc?
[09:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.ebuyer.com/447256-kingston-240gb-v300-ssdnow-with-adapter-sv300s37a-240g
[09:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> £123
[09:57] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, yes, a big difference
[09:57] <directhex> well, for reliability anyway
[09:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> What's good then?
[09:58] <directhex> for performance... you've sorta got tiers depending on the technology in use
[09:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Or what's crap?
[09:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> More bothered about reliability
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> directhex: ah, Steampipe is also why TF2 had to do some magic when I started it last Sunday
[09:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Won't notice a few Mb/s difference tbh
[09:58] <SuperMatt> TheOpenSourcerer: not bad, but I was hoping by now prices would be lower :(
[09:58] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, i'd avoid OCZ as a brand
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> I have 2 Samsungs and 2 Intels
[09:59] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, top tier: Mushkin Chronos Deluxe, Patriot Wildfire, OCZ Vertex 3 Max IOPS, OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G, Corsair Force GS
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> all work great
[09:59] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, Samsung 840, Samsung 840 Pro
[09:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Used to swear buy sammy or hitachi hdds.
[10:00] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, OCZ Vector, OVZ Vertex 4, Plextor M3 Pro, Plextor M5 Pro, Sandisk Extreme 2
[10:00] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, that's the top tier list
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> anandtech used to do great comparisons of SSD speed
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> probably still does
[10:01] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, in theory the V300 should be considered top tier, though it isn't specifically cited in my lists
[10:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> ty directhex
[10:02] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, i'll be honest though, the controller chip used in it is regarded as good for performance, but of questionable long-term reliability (it's a VERY common chip)
[10:04] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, also note that my list is specifically for 240G drives. SSD performance characteristics vary with drive size, and a given trive might be top tier at 240G and mid tier at 120G
[10:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> gotcha
[10:05] <MartijnVdS> also, if your machine has SATA-300, SSD Speed isn't going to be the bottleneck
[10:05] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, i have an old model of Kingston, the HyperX. wife has an old model of sandisk, the Extreme. both 240G
[10:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno what Sata I have.
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: kernel log will tell you
[10:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nah: UDMA/133
[10:09] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: [    3.153793] ata1: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
[10:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> SATA link up 1.5 Gbps
[10:09] <directhex> as roughly indivative, a samsung 840 pro 256GB is about 50% faster than a crucial m500 240gb
[10:09] <directhex> so we're not talking minor discrepancies
[10:09] <AlanBell> syslog.1:Nov  7 19:07:07 alanlaptop kernel: [248937.090995] ata1: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
[10:10] <MartijnVdS> directhex: compared to spinning rust, it's a minor difference though
[10:10] <directhex> true
[10:12] <AlanBell> are hybrid drives any good?
[10:12] <directhex> AlanBell, good question. never really investigated
[10:12] <SuperMatt> me neither
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> the Samsung Prius?
[10:13] <directhex> (if i came across as facetious there, it wasn't intentional. it really *is* a good question)
[10:13] <directhex> MartijnVdS, e.g. http://www.seagate.com/as/en/internal-hard-drives/laptop-hard-drives/laptop-solid-state-hybrid-drive/
[10:13] <directhex> which is a hard disk with a small ssd cache in front
[10:13] <directhex> 8G i think. let me check
[10:15] <directhex> 8G in the laptop models
[10:15] <directhex> also the desktop models
[10:16] <directhex> except for the 500G momemtus xt, which is 4G
[10:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks all - just ordered a Sammy 840 EVO 250G for my lappy and a Kingston V300 64G for my desktop as an OS and bcache
[10:38] <bigcalm> I like that people are contributing amounts that keep the total at fun numbers
[10:38] <bigcalm> Current total £777
[10:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah good point - it needs a bit more pimping I think...
[10:40] <AlanBell> possibly even an "update"
[10:47] <dwatkins> it's really quiet in my office, I get the impression half the people here are either working from home or have the day off.
[10:47] <MooDoo> dwatkins: can't you work from home?
[10:48] <SuperMatt> starting next friday, I have every friday off until new year
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: on purpose?
[10:48] <SuperMatt> yup
[10:48] <SuperMatt> well
[10:48] <SuperMatt> I didn't plan to have so much leave left over
[10:48] <SuperMatt> I just didn't take it
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> ah so they're not making you ;)
[10:49] <dwatkins> MooDoo: yeah, in theory, but I wanted to come in and try and sort out my Raspberry Pi, despite the fact my manager and half the team are off or working from home themselves.
[10:49] <MooDoo> dwatkins: get those tunes on loud then :D
[10:50] <dwatkins> unfortunately it's an open-plan office, and I can hear at least one person on a conference call
[10:50] <dwatkins> also, the phone hardly stops ringing
[10:50] <MooDoo> boooo
[10:50] <dwatkins> I have headphones :)
[10:51] <MooDoo> small mercies
[10:54] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:55] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
[10:55] <dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
[10:55] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo and dwatkins
[10:55] <dwatkins> I considered getting a HDMI splitter (I need a powered one for the Raspberry Pi, as the simple one doesn't seem to work), but they're more expensive than a 2nd Raspberry Pi....
[10:55]  * dwatkins orders a 2nd Raspbery Pi
[10:57] <brobostigon> good choice,
[10:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm, anyone near Farnham fancy a pub lunch today?
[10:59]  * AlanBell has a reservation at Raymond Blanc's place
[11:01]  * TheOpenSourcerer is not playing gooseberry
[11:02] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: ermahgerd, gerseberry?
[11:02] <dwatkins> hmmm, perhaps a powered splitter would be better, and they're only £25
[11:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> If I understood you I might reply MartijnVdS...
[11:08] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:08] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[11:09] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ermahgerd
[11:09] <bigcalm> Hi davmor2
[11:10] <davmor2> morning MooDoo hows life dude?
[11:10] <davmor2> I got a shiny new touchy feely mouse last night and it just works wow :D
[11:10] <bigcalm> davmor2: be sure to make fun of Amo's non-starting car at the LUG next week. I had to jump start it twice yesterday after badminton
[11:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: is this his car or his moms that he has broken?
[11:12] <bigcalm> davmor2: his own Saab
[11:12] <davmor2> oh he got another new one :D
[11:12] <bigcalm> davmor2: dead battery. I'm chuffed with myself for keeping jump leads in my car boot
[11:13] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yes, i fancy a pub lunch
[11:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[11:13] <Laney> me too
[11:14] <Laney> swing by and pick me up?
[11:14] <Laney> (jealous)
[11:15] <bigcalm> popey: Moga Pro arrived today. Makes GTA Vice City much more fun :)
[11:15] <popey> might take a while...
[11:15] <popey> http://bit.ly/HMIzO3
[11:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Want me to come to northcamp? Or do you fancy something like a "Gourmet Burger"?
[11:16] <popey> I can come over your way
[11:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> cool.
[11:18] <popey> bigcalm: oh?
[11:18] <davmor2> haha my new logitech t400 mouses middle button is odd the bottom half trigger the dash (ie super key press) the top half is a standard third button mouse click :D  that's gonna be fun :)
[11:18] <bigcalm> popey: yus
[11:18] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: you should get AlanBell to ask in #surrey too
[11:18] <bigcalm> popey: works via bluetooth, so I'll be hooking it up to my TV stick at lunch time to play GTA VC on the telly :D
[11:18] <popey> you can play GTC VC on android?
[11:19] <bigcalm> Yus
[11:19] <bigcalm> It's a 1.3GB download iirc
[11:19] <bigcalm> About 4 odd quid on the play store
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> with WITH the entire soundtrack!
[11:23] <bigcalm> Yus, I love loves me the soundtrack
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I have the CD edition :)
[11:24] <bigcalm> I wonder if Minecraft would work with the controller
[11:29] <bigcalm> No, it doesn't :(
[11:30] <popey> /dev/sda1            213G  168G   35G  84% /
[11:30] <popey> that's better
[11:34] <MartijnVdS> popey: apt-get clean?
[11:34] <popey> uninstall some games, delete some vmss
[11:34] <popey> -s
[11:35] <popey> KiB Mem:   8056528 total,  6641020 used,  1415508 free,     3540 buffers
[11:35] <popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,  6276728 used,  1991044 free,   747996 cached
[11:35] <popey> this could be better
[11:36] <popey>  7406 alan      20   0 2509m 506m  16m S   1.3  6.4 171:23.57 chromium-browse
[11:36] <popey>  6754 alan      20   0 2293m 350m  16m S   0.7  4.4 102:32.13 chromium-browse
[11:36] <popey>  6355 alan      20   0 3599m 320m  22m S   2.0  4.1 258:48.25 chromium-browse
[11:36] <mungbean> i hate what browsers have become
[11:36] <MartijnVdS> time to reboot the browser/
[11:37] <popey> closed a bunch of tabs, down to 5.2G swap
[11:37] <penguin42> 5.2G swap ?!
[11:37] <diddledan> that's painful
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> popey: how many tabs do you have open, usually?
[11:38] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: He's got the whole of the internet loaded into his browser
[11:39] <popey> $lots
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: that's only 5.2G?
[11:39] <popey> mostly docs
[11:39] <popey> and launchpad tabs
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> popey: There seem to be 3 kinds of web browser users :)
[11:39] <popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,  4225476 used,  4042296 free,   759772 cached
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> popey: - Just one tab.
[11:39] <mungbean> close gmail facebook and g+ and twitter tabs
[11:39] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: It is once you compress the kittens
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> popey: - Several tabs, up to ~10
[11:40] <MartijnVdS> popey: - Millions of tabs, never closes any
[11:40] <mungbean> i am the person that uses between 10-50 tabs
[11:40] <popey> i have two separate browser sessions open, with about 50 in each
[11:40] <mungbean> i stop when i can't see the icons onthe tabs on a widescreen anymore
[11:40] <MartijnVdS> I stop when the tabs get less wide
[11:40] <MartijnVdS> (than default)
[11:41] <diddledan> I stop when I can't see or remember what they all are
[11:41] <diddledan> if I spend more time clicking through to find the one I want then I'm doing something wrong
[11:41] <diddledan> than it would take to just load the page anew**
[11:41] <mungbean> my brother asks: what the main diff between the different PS3: e.g 12GB and 500GB
[11:41] <popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,  3085900 used,  5181872 free,   898840 cached
[11:41] <popey> space
[11:42] <penguin42> Amazon's recommendation stuff is only slightly clever; it's recommending me a lot of stuff by people I already have 'greatest hits' type of things from and thus won't be buying more, but it's also offering me random 'Greatest Hits' CDs of stuff just because I have a lot of Greatest Hits
[11:42] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: Storage space for games (downloadable ones) and save games
[11:42] <mungbean> what would the 12gb one inhibit?
[11:42] <mungbean> is it hobbled by the small space
[11:42] <mungbean> he is considering buying one for his kids
[11:42] <penguin42> popey: htf do you find the tab you're interested in with 50 open?
[11:42] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: if he intends to download >1 game, yes.
[11:43] <mungbean> what happens if you want to download 3 games with a 12gb space?
[11:43] <mungbean> can you move them to external drives?
[11:43] <mungbean> or redownload them later?
[11:44] <mungbean> the 12gb is flash rather than HDD
[11:45] <popey> penguin42: i know where they are
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: external drives might work
[11:45] <mungbean> is the 12gb better perf?
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: redownloads work at least several times
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's probably SSD, while the others are spinning rust
[11:47] <penguin42> 12gb is an odd number
[11:47] <mungbean> mathematical it's even :P
[11:48] <mungbean> but maybe there are 4gb of system OS on it
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> nah not quite that much
[11:51] <diddledan> can you replace the disc used by the ps3?
[11:51] <mungbean> allegedly if you plug a HDD into it , then it can override the flash drive for you
[11:52] <mungbean> i only read that on the internet though, so could be wrong
[11:52] <diddledan> https://support.us.playstation.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/362
[11:53] <mungbean> are downloaded games any more or less expensive than the cheapest bluray based games?
[11:54] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: depends on the age of the game
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: newest games will most likely be cheaper on disc (but lots of disc games *also* need to install several GB onto the hard disk)
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: older games might be cheaper online
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> (but go on HD 100%)
[11:56] <mungbean> sounds hobbled if the games need several gb of space ?
[12:09] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: what time is lunch?
[12:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> Whenever you are ready popey :-)
[12:10] <jussi> dammit, I want to come to lunch!
[12:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> Come on then jussi
[12:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> how far can Farnham be from you?
[12:12] <popey> ok, just waiting for cleaner to finish
[12:12] <jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: about 1900km
[12:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not far then.
[12:13] <jussi> hehe
[12:13] <jussi> bit far for lunch
[12:21] <diddledan> where'd all this rain come from suddenly?
[12:22] <shauno> ah, that might have been us
[12:22] <diddledan> it's widdling it
[12:22] <diddledan> shauno: have you been making clouds again?
[12:22] <MooDoo> or singing
[12:23] <diddledan> the local cloud generator is turned off now (didcot power station) or rather the cloud generating is no longer functioning
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> we have all the clouds here now :(
[12:24] <diddledan> it looks boring now. four massive cooling towers with nothing billowing out of them
[12:24] <diddledan> they've gone gas
[12:24] <diddledan> yey for more reliance on russia
[12:25] <jussi> oooh, cool news! http://gigaom.com/2013/11/06/facebook-open-sources-its-sql-on-hadoop-engine-and-the-web-rejoices/#!
[12:25] <diddledan> I'm sure that the web didn't rejoice
[12:26] <diddledan> I'm on the web, for e.g. and I didn't rejoice
[12:31]  * popey pings TheOpenSourcerer a pm
[12:45] <dwatkins> I was wondering how long it would take for them to shut down Didcot Power Station, diddledan - I grew up around there.
[12:46] <dwatkins> So there are two towers still being used?
[12:46] <diddledan> dwatkins: they've turned off the coal fires afaik but gas generation is still happening
[12:47] <dwatkins> I remember seeing the gigantic ball-bearings when we went on a tour of the site.
[12:47] <diddledan> the cooling towers aren't being used anymore, though
[12:47] <shauno> pedant, I usually say gas-fired or oil-fired, etc.  'gas generation' sounds like a job for Dominos
[12:47] <diddledan> shauno: they're generating using gas
[12:56] <penguin42> oddly the UK seems to have been using more coal as of late
[12:58] <dwatkins> I imagine we have an expanding economy.
[12:59] <MartijnVdS> time to go nuclear!
[12:59] <mungbean> one more PS3 question: do they not support playing of ps2 games anymore?
[12:59] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: indeed, they do not.
[12:59] <dwatkins> depends on the model, mungbean
[13:00] <mungbean> recent
[13:00] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Newer models haven't supported PS2 games since '08
[13:00] <dwatkins> I had a really old original PS3 which would run PS2 games, but my new slim PS3 doesn't
[13:00] <mungbean> sucks
[13:00] <dwatkins> indeed, MartijnVdS & mungbean
[13:00] <mungbean> is there a way?
[13:00] <mungbean> i.e. download them
[13:00] <dwatkins> yeah, some games have been ported
[13:00] <penguin42> dwatkins: I think we've actually been using more coal to get it in before we're forced to switch it off, and because US coal became cheap to import
[13:00] <mungbean> like on the wii
[13:00] <dwatkins> there are emulators, of course
[13:01] <shauno> I think nuclear may actually be why moar coal.  they've shutdown several reactors in the last 10 years (6?) but haven't brought any new ones online since the 80s
[13:01] <dwatkins> penguin42: oh my
[13:01] <penguin42> dwatkins: We're currently (last 30mins) running 38% coal, 34.4% gas, 15.8% nuke, 4.2% wind
[13:01] <dwatkins> interesting to know, thanks penguin42
[13:01] <dwatkins> we have a big wind farm just outside Edinburgh
[13:02] <penguin42> dwatkins: I've seen the wind figures peak at about 15% - but that's on a very windy day at the weekend when the useage is low
[13:02] <dwatkins> I wonder if solar and wind combined would provide enough power in theory
[13:03] <penguin42> dwatkins: Not a chance
[13:03] <dwatkins> you'd probably need massive farms of both, of course
[13:03] <dwatkins> ah ok
[13:03] <MartijnVdS> tidal..?
[13:03] <dwatkins> geothermal?
[13:03] <penguin42> dwatkins: http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
[13:03] <shauno> dole recipients on bicycles?</dm>
[13:04] <dwatkins> neat, penguin42 - might put that up on one of the displays here
[13:04] <penguin42> dwatkins: tbh that does show compared with this time last year we are running more gas and less coal than last year
[13:04] <shauno> I totally advocate more nuclear power
[13:05] <penguin42> shauno: Hmm, I think it's unfortunately the only workable solution - but I keep it as an unfortunate
[13:05] <dwatkins> We'll run out of coal and gas eventually, and I suspecgt nuclear is the only viable alternative right now, since fusion power is a long way off.
[13:05] <dwatkins> *suspect
[13:06] <penguin42> dwatkins: The thing to watch on that thing is the monthly/yearly wind graphs - you sometimes get upto maybe 5GW for a few days, but then end up with a few days or a week at almost zilch - that's a hugre variation
[13:06] <mungbean> my EDF plan is "low carbon" which means more nuke
[13:06] <mungbean> although i suspect the people who get excited by low carbon aren't excited by more nuke
[13:06] <dwatkins> EDF, mungbean?
[13:07] <penguin42> mungbean: Yeh I think I had them for a while; it's nice how they show you the amount of radioactivity released per kwh in their docs
[13:07] <dwatkins> I'm excited by not running out of power.
[13:07] <mungbean> yes, edf blue i think is called
[13:07] <penguin42> dwatkins: Yeh well there's the problem
[13:07] <dwatkins> ah yes http://my.edfenergy.com/gas-electricity/compare-blue
[13:07] <dwatkins> indeed, penguin42 - I cycle to work, but I still use a lot of computers, of course.
[13:08] <penguin42> dwatkins: Note we also import about 3gw just over cable from france/dutch
[13:08] <dwatkins> Perhaps someday we'll all have to cycle at work as well.... http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1510207830/pedal-power-human-scale-energy-for-everyday-tasks
[13:08] <mungbean> just like in sim city eh penguin42
[13:10] <mungbean> what are the prices like for remastered Ps2 games on ps3 please?
[13:10] <mungbean> google not telling me yet
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: look on PSN :)
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> €9,99ish on this side of the  North Sea
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: also www.psnprices.com
[13:14] <MooDoo> https://www.facebook.com/acdcxmas - help :D lol
[13:35] <mungbean> i got an email from tomtom about a satnav i bought about 4yrs ago
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: spammy
[13:36] <mungbean> about an update. never heard from them before
[13:36] <mungbean> about easygpxfix
[13:36] <mungbean> Your TomTom device uses at least 4 satellite signals to check your position. But with QuickGPSfix, it locates you much quicker – so you can set off quicker, too.
[13:36] <mungbean> Within just 30 seconds, you’ll be able to start your journey, even in places where the GPS signal is weak or partially blocked.
[13:36] <mungbean> Better yet, you can download QuickGPSfix to your device right now for free. To upgrade, just click the button.
[13:36] <mungbean> need windows :(
[13:37] <MartijnVdS> ah, new ephemeris daat
[13:37] <MartijnVdS> data*
[13:38] <mgdm> mungbean: yeah, I got that too
[13:38] <mgdm> mungbean: I thought it was spam, but it had a picture of the device, and it's not exactly current
[13:41] <mungbean> yeah
[13:41] <mungbean> thats the device i have
[13:46] <mungbean> whats the cheapest way to get RAC/AA cover? quidco? tesco clubcard?
[13:49] <directhex> i get mine from toyota
[13:51] <mgdm> mungbean: I have heard that if you find them standing outside o Tesco or whereever you can haggle, but I've not tried it
[13:52] <mungbean> i didn't know that mgdm
[13:59] <mungbean> RAC prices on clubcard have rocketed
[13:59] <mungbean> and they are now doing a pricey renewal or lower price for "new members" even on clubcard
[14:10] <DJones> mungbean: Does it have to be RAC/AA? my Dad has been with one of the small ones for a few years, not sure of th service quality because he's never had to call them out, but prices were a lot cheaper
[14:12] <DJones> mungbean: http://www.insurancechoice.co.uk/breakdowncover/car-breakdown-cover
[14:12] <directhex> typically the smaller ones subcontract to your nearest local garage
[14:12] <directhex> meaning response times and service quality are random and potentially terrible
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> or, potentially, better than AA/RAC
[14:13] <directhex> potentially, yes
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> but that's unlikely
[14:13] <DJones> That one looks to be backed by AXA Insurance
[14:14] <DJones> But as you say, does look to subcontract to your local garage
[14:15] <bigcalm> 2 fairly identical websites running on one server. 1 website is responding normally, the other is taking 30+ seconds to respond to requests. What might I look at to see what's wrong?
[14:15] <mgdm> error logs? DNS config?
[14:15] <mungbean> i went for RAC with tesco , £40
[14:15] <DJones> Thats something the industry I'm working in does, so its not something I'd have an issue with
[14:15] <mungbean> realised i was looking at the family prices rather than joint
[14:16] <shauno> tried pulling a static asset off each to isolate whether the wait is in the stack or the application?
[14:16] <bigcalm> Ta
[14:16] <shauno> (not an answer, but cuts the field in half)
[14:17] <bigcalm> Indeed
[14:17] <bigcalm> That was a quick enough response
[14:17] <bigcalm> So it's either the application or the database I guess
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: I pay twice that/year, and I get full coverage across Europe
[14:18] <bigcalm> Have restarted both mysql and apache on the server. No change
[14:19] <mungbean> RAC european cover gives you a free breathalyser
[14:19] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: one of the applications might be trying to connect to something it's not allowed to connect to (dropped packets)
[14:19] <mungbean> not sure what they are trying to say there
[14:19] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: for France, no doubt
[14:19] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: you're required to have one in your car there
[14:19] <mungbean> because wine comes out of the taps?
[14:19] <mungbean> really? wow
[14:19] <mungbean> TIL
[14:19] <mungbean> even if you don't drink?
[14:20] <MartijnVdS> yes
[14:20] <mungbean> lame
[14:20] <MartijnVdS> even if you never use it
[14:20] <mgdm> You could be like the guy who claimed he never drank but was 3 times over the limit when caught, due to "having eaten 1kg of raspberries"
[14:21] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: hmm.. fermented raspberries
[14:21] <shauno> there's a whole kit the french require you to keep handy
[14:21] <mungbean> garlic?
[14:21] <mgdm> http://news.stv.tv/tayside/251867-theres-something-funny-about-this-drunk-driver-who-blamed-raspberries-on-alcohol-reading-banned/
[14:21] <mungbean> string of oignons
[14:22] <mgdm> "Former Royal Marine Cook said he had been teetotal for 50 years but had unwittingly eaten raspberries which were equivalent to ten pints of beer."
[14:23] <shauno> flozzy jacket, warning triangle, stuff like that
[14:25] <daftykins> reply from my ISP about those router resets - they claim they moved everyone to PPPoE
[14:26]  * TheOpenSourcerer has another Alan in Libertus towers this afternoon...
[14:26] <daftykins> :o
[14:27] <daftykins> how do you keep finding them XD
[14:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> You can never have enough alans
[14:27] <daftykins> i'm beginning to think it's a job requirement for your company :)
[14:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> That would be descriminatory
[14:29] <MooDoo> daftykins: it's part of the contract, must change name to alan after 30 days of the start of your contract.
[14:29] <daftykins> :D
[14:29] <daftykins> and nobody reads before signing :(
[14:30] <Alan-MooDoo> this better?
[14:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
[14:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not sure about the "MooDoo2 bit though Alan-MooDoo
[14:30] <Alan-MooDoo> come one everyone change your nick to alan-<nick> :)
[14:30] <shauno> is name actually protected by the equality act?
[14:30] <daftykins> Welcome aboard Alan, now we shall proceed to step 2 of the training. Introductions!
[14:30] <daftykins> Alan, you already know this Alan but may I introduce Alan?
[14:31] <Alan-MooDoo> hi I'm alan
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: indoctrinations*
[14:31] <daftykins> Alan Alan, Alan Alan.
[14:33] <daftykins> fired so soon :(
[14:34] <daftykins> ;)
[14:35] <MooDoo> quit, crap bosses, they wanted to take me to the pub...i don't come to work to go down the pub ;)
[14:36] <daftykins> :D
[14:36] <MartijnVdS> also, your last name isn't 4 letters long
[14:36]  * popey waves from Libertus Towers
[14:36] <MooDoo> was never going to work, it's me not you.
[14:37] <MartijnVdS> popey: *Alan Towers
[14:37] <MartijnVdS> popey: "HQ of the Alan Invasion"
[14:37] <daftykins> Motto: "One of us, one of us..."
[14:37] <MooDoo> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Alan_kingdom_hispania.png
[14:38] <MooDoo> an old image showing the kingdom of the alans
[14:38] <daftykins> :O
[14:38] <MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/DYgbzQr.png
[14:38] <daftykins> MooDoo: old because they now cover more land?!
[14:38] <popey> ooh thats near where my dad lived
[14:38] <daftykins> Alan Sr. ?
[14:38] <popey> Peter
[14:38] <daftykins> :D
[14:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> The yellow: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Alani_map.jpg
[14:39] <MooDoo> i want this -  http://www.force18.co.uk/images/tee-alan-tshirt-black.jpg
[14:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans
[14:39] <MooDoo> or this - http://www.stupid.com/assets/images/the_hangover_my_name_is_alan_tshirt_1.jpg
[14:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> The Alans were a big tribe man :-)
[14:39] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: the "History of English podcast" talks about them for several episodes
[14:40] <davmor2> MooDoo: I knew you were old but admitting you know about the Kingdom of Alans really dates you :)
[14:41] <MooDoo> davmor2: I'm as old as the alans :)
[14:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> You are not old as me.
[14:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> I am the oldest (and hopefully wisest) amongst us ;-)
[14:42] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: depends how old :)
[14:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> 1965
[14:42] <MooDoo> you are then :D
[14:42] <MartijnVdS> Alan the Ancient
[14:42] <MooDoo> I'm a 70's kid :)
[14:43] <MartijnVdS> 1980 hero
[14:43] <popey> I can now see how much work gets done at Libertus Solutions post-lunch
[14:43] <MooDoo> makes me want to work there even more now :D
[14:43] <MooDoo> change my name to alan, have fun on a friday....sounds bliss ;)
[14:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Told you so. I have tales of yore that I could tell you all. But forsooth, I must proceed with my ramblings elsewhere.
[14:44] <davmor2> MooDoo: best time to grow up it means you were old enough to appreciate when all the good music happened :D
[14:44] <MooDoo> davmor2: unless it's led zeppelin or pink flloyd then it's all crap
[14:44] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: hey, I was 10 when the first 90s music came out ;)
[14:44] <MooDoo> ;)
[14:44]  * TheOpenSourcerer is going to see Letz Zep tomorrow night :-)
[14:45] <MooDoo> you'll be dazed and confused after that
[14:45] <daftykins> TheOpenSourcerer: :D sounds fun
[14:45] <davmor2> MooDoo: yeah but then your parents had all that on LP so you got the best of the best all round :P
[14:46] <MooDoo> davmor2: we don't mention lp's that my parents own, it's a sore subject in our house
[14:46] <daftykins> MooDoo: may i add Black Sabbath to that list
[14:46] <MooDoo> daftykins: of course
[14:46] <daftykins> i've been listening a lot lately \o/
[14:47] <davmor2> MooDoo: well if you would use them a Frisbees then it would be :P
[14:47] <MooDoo> davmor2: pretty much something like that, one was an original copy of help by the beatles...which is worth about £50 to £100 nowadays at least I think it was help.
[14:48] <MooDoo> oh some lp that's worth a bit now
[14:48] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "Help".. me pay my rent
[14:50] <davmor2> MooDoo: I wore out My mom's copy of War of the Worlds listening to it :D  That went down well I can tell you :D
[14:50] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: No one would have believed..
[14:51] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: lol
[14:51] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: In the last years of the nineteenth century
[14:52] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: my dad put it on tape for me to listen to, didn't trust me with vinyl ;)
[14:53] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Of course now I'm going to have to drop the CD into this box and listen to it :D
[15:03] <popey> anyone fancy testing a game I made in scratch, and give constructive critique?
[15:03] <popey> it's not finished ☻
[15:03] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/typing.sb if you have 5 mins. press numbers as they fall down the screen. if they get to the bottom you lose, if you type the wrong one it gets faster
[15:03] <popey> need to fiddle the difficulty a little and add a title screen and level selection i think.
[15:04] <bigcalm> What's a .sb?
[15:04] <bigcalm> Oh, scratch
[15:07] <MooDoo> popey: er how you run this on windows machines, it doesn't seem to want to run in the browser?  I'm being thick
[15:07] <awilkins> Scratch has it's own runtime
[15:07] <awilkins> Although they are working on a browser version
[15:07] <MooDoo> oh right
[15:08] <popey> you need to install scratch
[15:08] <MooDoo> yeah ok thanks
[15:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> scratch 2 is browser based I think.
[15:14] <daftykins> too many damn plugins
[15:14] <popey> yeah, is horrid
[15:14] <popey> its flash based, the new one
[15:15] <popey> stupid stupid
[15:15] <daftykins> D:
[15:16] <daftykins> didn't they say HTML5 was going to solve all of this by now? :D
[15:16] <popey> it has for many
[15:16] <popey> see all those apple and android devices which have no flash
[15:16] <daftykins> this is true
[15:16] <daftykins> though that's mostly just video for now i guess
[15:17] <popey> yeah
[15:19] <daftykins> i just put IE11 on in a VM, heh
[15:19] <bigcalm> modern.ie?
[15:20] <daftykins> er, not sure what you mean
[15:20] <bigcalm> Never mind then :)
[15:20] <daftykins> i looked it up and found the site... :D
[15:21] <bigcalm> http://www.modern.ie/en-US/virtualization-tools#downloads
[15:21] <daftykins> oic
[15:21] <daftykins> nah i just setup a clean win7 VM to see if it still annoyingly needed a net connection to install, which it does
[15:28] <daftykins> hahaha a friend just linked me to this, just to continue the Alan theme...
[15:28] <daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Loi-cTSQy2Q
[15:28] <daftykins> :D
[15:29] <Myrtti> yes.
[15:51]  * bigcalm plays "hunt the pixel" while trying to increase a window's height using the top edge
[15:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's "design" :-D
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: alt+middle drag
[15:54] <daftykins> they are far too specific margins
[15:55] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ta
[15:56] <bigcalm> I already use alt + drag for moving around any way :)
[17:00] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: thanks!
[20:09] <mungbean> "A new Bloomberg report suggests that Stephen Elop, who's apparently on the short list of candidates to replace Steve Ballmer as Microsoft's CEO, would eliminate company projects such as Xbox and Bing while focusing resources on Office.
[20:11] <penguin42> mungbean: I think they'd make a fortune if they released Office on Android
[20:13] <mungbean> nah
[20:13] <mungbean> who wants to pay for office products?
[20:14] <brobostigon> there is a version of office for android.
[20:14] <penguin42> where?
[20:15] <penguin42> mungbean: unfortunately they've still got their stuff a lot more 'just works' than anything else
[20:15] <brobostigon> microshaft office mobile,
[20:16] <brobostigon> penguin42: search google play, its there.
[20:17] <penguin42> brobostigon: Is that local on on the 365 stuff?
[20:17] <brobostigon> penguin42: local ?
[20:22] <penguin42> brobostigon: Editing files on the android device rather than on the 365 cloud?
[20:22] <brobostigon> penguin42: from the description, it implies it is on device editing,
[20:22] <penguin42> brobostigon: Hmm ok, yeh then that's good
[20:24] <brobostigon> ok,
[20:58] <Azelphur> for those who were interested in the inputs.io hack the other day, turns out it was hosted by linode, so this would be the second time linode has been compromised and had a bitcoin hijack
[20:58] <Azelphur> xD
[20:58] <daftykins> D:
[20:58] <daftykins> that's good of them
[20:58] <Azelphur> indeed
[21:07] <diddledan> are my credit card details safe?
[21:08] <Azelphur> diddledan: *shrug*
[21:08] <Azelphur> probably, but they mostly use a payment processor don't they?
[21:11] <ali1234> Azelphur: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6384374/
[21:11] <Azelphur> hello python
[21:11] <ali1234> you have to idle in #bitcoin-market with pidgin to make it work
[21:11] <Azelphur> bitcoin ticker?
[21:11] <Azelphur> ah :)
[21:12] <Azelphur> doesn't bitcoin-market use gox?
[21:12] <ali1234> all exchanges
[21:12] <Azelphur> cool
[21:12] <ali1234> you can filter whatever you want, see line 69
[21:12] <ali1234> and 61
[21:13] <ali1234> and 53
[21:13] <Azelphur> :)
[21:13] <ali1234> i should make that use a dictionary really
[21:15] <Azelphur> ali1234: cashed out a bit to pay my bills and bought myself a sony smartwatch, btw :P
[21:16] <ali1234> is it good?
[21:17] <Azelphur> dunno, arrives tomorrow
[21:17] <Azelphur> hopefully :)
[21:19] <diddledan> ooh, those sony watches look interesting
[21:19] <Azelphur> indeed, the v2 runs android
[21:19] <diddledan> the galaxy gear apparently requires recharging every 12 hours
[21:19] <ali1234> "what time is it?" "time to charge my smartwatch"
[21:19] <diddledan> and only works with the note
[21:20] <Azelphur> haha
[21:20] <Azelphur> I'm generally cool with once a day charging on things (while I sleep)
[21:20] <ali1234> "why is my wrist so hot?" "oh"
[21:20] <Azelphur> Sony one supposedly does up to 6 days, or 3 on heavy use
[21:20] <Azelphur> so I'm cool with that.
[21:20] <diddledan> yeah, I tend to charge my phone daily whether it needs it or not
[21:21] <Azelphur> yea, it's my evening ritual, I put everything on charge before I go to sleep
[21:21] <diddledan> it's part of my ritual
[21:21] <Azelphur> haha
[21:21] <diddledan> heh jinx
[21:21] <Azelphur> Headset, N7, N7 HD, N4, EasyAcc battery, and now smartwatch
[21:21] <Azelphur> charge all the things >.<
[21:22] <diddledan> not enough sockets, gah
[21:22] <Azelphur> diddledan: I fixed that
[21:22] <diddledan> hehe
[21:22] <Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x25eayunda52zcz/2013-10-31%2022.49.10.jpg
[21:22] <diddledan> I am toiling with the idea of getting the new nexus7 to replace my old one
[21:22] <Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x25eayunda52zcz/2013-10-31%2022.49.10.jpg
[21:23] <Azelphur> diddledan: I have both, I certainly like the new one, better at games and lighter :)
[21:23] <Azelphur> I got it because it was on special offer, so cheap it was hard to turn dow
[21:23] <Azelphur> n
[21:23] <diddledan> I kinda want the 10 tho but that's last year's tech
[21:23] <Azelphur> hehe
[21:24] <Azelphur> I got my N7 HD for £170 :)
[21:24] <Azelphur> (32GB edition, no cell)
[21:24] <diddledan> that's cheaper than the base model from google play
[21:24] <Azelphur> by far, indeed :)
[21:30] <Myrtti> ♥ http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/10743095875/
[21:30] <Azelphur> fun :)
[21:30] <Myrtti> fits the champagne case thingy I've got for it ♥
[21:30] <Azelphur> :D
[21:33] <Azelphur> Myrtti: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8r8fsor566cz5tt/2013-11-08%2021.32.18.png?m mine is boring :P
[21:34] <Myrtti> yeah my N7 looks boring too
[21:36] <Azelphur> My N4 is just messy https://www.dropbox.com/s/prwe77skokm5956/2013-11-08%2021.35.05.png?m
[21:40] <diddledan> ergh. why does netflix have to use silverlight?!
[21:44] <mgdm> DRM
[21:45] <diddledan> I have a sneaky suspicion that netflix thinks I'm somewhere other than the UK
[21:45] <diddledan> when I logged in it prompted me to tell me that the collection may be different in different countries "while you're travelling"
[21:47] <diddledan> and now it's broken
[21:47] <diddledan> fudge
[21:49] <diddledan> ho hum
[21:49] <diddledan> I guess I shan't be watching any movies this eve
[21:53] <Myrtti> Azelphur: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/10748701113/
[21:54] <Azelphur> Myrtti: nice
[21:54] <Azelphur> you should see my old nexus 7, the king of unorganised
[21:55] <Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/k9yabrrd2ct7lew/2013-11-08%2021.55.02.png?m
[21:55] <Azelphur> what is this organisation you speak of.
[22:02] <brobostigon> woop, new QI
[22:09] <Azelphur> If something is IP57 rated, does that mean it'll survive in the shower and in the rain?
[22:19] <ali1234> yes, for 30 minutes
[22:25] <Azelphur> fun
[22:33] <daftykins> got the weirdest situation going on here
[22:34] <daftykins> one of my friends lives on Guernsey as well, but a couple live in England
[22:34] <daftykins> that one local friend can't join any Xbox Live parties or games hosted by someone in England
[22:34] <daftykins> there has to be at least one other Guern on O_O
[22:34] <daftykins> it's not even due to UPnP or NAT status of his console
[22:35] <ali1234> what is a xbox live party?
[22:35] <daftykins> it just doesn't seem to want him to be friends with English peeps :D
[22:35] <daftykins> it's a collection of users on voice chat
[22:37] <daftykins> damn it, i just had them both join a game i'd setup - but they both had connection timeouts
[22:37] <daftykins> (playing GTA V)
[22:51] <gordonjcp> I was just playing GTA V
[22:54] <daftykins> gordonjcp: online or single?
[22:54] <gordonjcp> online
[22:54] <daftykins> vewy gewd
[22:54] <daftykins> i'm just doing some races with friends now
[23:26]  * penguin42 pokes deman5 with a sharp stick
