[00:03] haha [00:09] SMLR is Live Now (11/9/13@7:00pm) Video http://youtu.be/gR5nWL0ai-I , Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming [01:41] what should I be when I grow up? [01:46] a firefighter, no doubt [02:00] I've been thinking about opening a fruit & vegie stand [02:04] darn it derekv, you had to go find broken things. :P === ZonathanD is now known as JonathanD [12:57] morning [12:57] yes [13:13] morning [13:16] GiveCamp starts tonight [13:16] I hope I'm not too old to keep up with the hipsters [13:20] lol, go teach those whipper-snappers a thing or two [13:21] At least it's a django project we're working on [13:22] booooo! [13:23] morning rick_h_ [13:23] http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/11/07/2328228/gimp-citing-ad-policies-moves-to-ftp-rather-than-sourceforge-downloads [13:25] heh, floored it took this long tbh [13:26] I feel bad for my SF friends [13:26] They don't make these policies but they endure questions === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse [14:04] why are they even still using SF? [14:04] move to github, use their archive and release features ;P [14:04] silly gimp [14:06] ugggh sorry everyone [14:06] for the join spam [14:17] yay, ec2 machine retirement worked around. Sorry for the few min of bookie downtime [14:51] brousch: Sad thing is it's only a few projects that are doing the ad-supported downloads but they cause people to question every project [14:54] It sounds like Gimp didn't green-light the bundler, so it was forced on them by SF. People have to wonder if their project is next [14:54] yeah, I didn't catch that initially. [14:55] That's really, really slimy. [14:55] i'm unsure why this is surprising. [14:55] SF has been evil for a long time now. [14:56] jrwren: Questionable, yes. Some of those ads were purposefully misleading [14:56] evil, notsomuch [14:56] But this latest spate is evil. [14:56] It's taking advantage of people [14:56] Dave told when they get reports of bad ads they take them down [14:57] I guess they don't vet every ad before it goes up [14:57] yea, it's slimy. They've been slimy for a while business-wise. [14:57] but the troule is when the business and the devs collide which is why brousch gets :( [14:58] They love the project (Allura) but hate the business side [14:58] That's been true for a while. [14:59] Because the business side is making it harder for them to justify working on the Allura side. [15:00] It's like finding out your research in quantum mechanics is going to kill people. [15:00] (OK, not so much in the extreme, but you get the idea) [15:01] I'm planning on moving what little code I have left on SF.net over to githug. [15:01] github, even [15:04] They should call pull requests githugs [15:05] ummm....denied! [15:05] "I just sent you a githug for bookie!" [15:06] "Please keep your hands to yourself" [15:06] 5 githugs are waiting for you! [15:06] lol [15:06] add it to the xkcd for today [15:10] how long till a chrome extension shows up that comic? [15:11] trevlar: already there? [15:11] and I'm right https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/xkcd-substitutions/jkgogmboalmaijfgfhfepckdgjeopfhk?hl=en&gl=001 [15:11] thank you google for making that easy to find on my first try so fast after comit release [15:12] lol [15:12] https://github.com/h2s/xkcd-substitutions [15:12] Just sent a note to my friends at SF.net. I included this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0lr63y4Mw [15:13] Well, their new community manager. [15:14] But he and I worked together, and I trust him. [15:23] cmaloney: we disagree on what evil means. :p [15:24] and... wtf is Allura ? [15:24] https://sourceforge.net/projects/allura/ [15:25] does it have lots of ads OOTB ? [15:25] I don't believe so but can't confirm. :) [15:26] https://github.com/marijnh/Eloquent-JavaScript [15:26] Apparently it's going through a second edition [15:27] cool, JS people like this book as a good solid first book for folks [15:27] I wasn't as big a fan, but it was something like my 10th+ JS book [15:27] yeah, my own failings in Javascript are in no way attributable to this book [15:27] all ya need is crockford. [15:27] everything else is superfluous [15:27] lol [15:28] Crockford is a great map of the landmines, but what I'd like to know is if there's a fucking beach under there. :) [15:32] jrwren: Allura has no ads. Those are part of the proprietary SF add-ons [15:32] experience. just have to get through the learning curve [15:32] 'the good parts' is probably the best book and finding good code is the second thing to do, then get writing [15:32] JS is like all other languages. Don't try to write it like something else [15:32] C-looking python is a pati [15:32] pita that is [15:32] and trying to make JS look like python will suck as well [15:36] * brousch hides his javascript [15:37] come on, it'll never get better if you don't have others to learn from [15:37] <3 code reviews [15:37] as brutal as they can be, it's how you get better at crap [15:37] at least learn/see new ways [15:37] My JS looks as much like Python as I can make it [15:37] did you know you can check something with collections.Mapping? That was totally new to me [15:37] jrwren: might like that one [15:37] I hate the usual JS function in function in function [15:38] then don't do that :) [15:44] But when I look at JS examples, that's how they are [15:45] yea, but do you know why? [15:45] once you understand the rules, you can work around the rules :) [15:45] rick_h_: java looking python can be worse :) [15:46] jrwren: yea :/ [15:46] It is because JS people don't like to name functions. They like to inline everything [15:46] jrwren: but we've already got some of that [15:46] i think collections.Mapping is new in ES6 ? [15:46] brousch: no and no :P [15:46] jrwren: no, it's in python. I saw someone use it to compare if it was a 'dict-like' something [15:47] i've not used that. [15:48] yea, I hadn't seen collections.Mapping/etc in there. Was kind of cool. Anyway, code reviews showing new ways/things is cool [15:48] its an abstract base. [15:48] so were they calling type() and comparing? [15:48] isinstance [15:48] yea [15:48] yup [15:49] makes great sense. [15:49] that way it works if it is a dict, or an OrderedDict or any other dict like thing [15:49] right [15:49] alhtough the catch is that your dict like thing needs to inherit from Mapping rather than just be a duck. [15:49] ah python... turning its back on duck typing :) [15:50] now what would be SWEET, and why I like GO is if python adopted implicit interfaces. [15:50] ugh, except for the joys of chasing down where that method came from [15:50] so a new type need not inherit from Mapping, but as soon as it has __getitem__, __setitem__, __delitem__, __iter__, and __len__ it isinstance(Mapping) [15:51] tags, vim and ctrl-] makes that easy if not trivial [15:51] and if that fails, git grep :p [15:57] Until I can convince folks to get postgresql / hstore in here, this is proving to be a nice alternative for simple key/value store: http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_8/orm/collections.html#dictionary-collections [16:01] Also, nosetests --pdb is awesome [16:02] Helping with my feeble attempts at TDD [16:21] so, trademarks, discuss [16:21] ;) [16:22] I only trade marks when mine are worn out [16:22] funnily enough, I have a call in 8 minutes with Mark and Markus [16:47] My impression is that UK trademark law is a little more stringent than US trademark law, but I have nothing more than anecdotal evidence to back that thought. [16:49] I'm disappointed with both sides, frankly [16:57] greg-g: :P [17:02] Apparently the latest Logitech UE firmware will let you "upgrade" it to a Squeezebox Radio [17:02] cue happy dance. [17:28] cmaloney: help! https://identi.ca/greg/note/uleMo4q2Q2qiTydzvr5Shw [17:47] greg-g: Want my honest opinion on how to tackle this? :) [17:48] if it involves installing a linux distro, no [17:48] cmaloney: otherwise I'm all ears :) [17:48] It involves a Squeezebox and a server. [17:49] Not necessarily Logitech's hardware though. [17:50] But that'll give you the DLNA support, and FLAC / ogg / mp3 support [17:50] so, two distros to set up :) [17:50] well, I'm solving the otherone with a synology nas (with DLNA support) [17:50] http://www.synology.com/releaseNote_enu/SqueezeboxServer.php [17:51] wat [17:51] ah [17:51] so, still need the cd player part though :/ [17:52] have too many cds that aren't on the NAS yet [17:55] greg-g: Best advice I can give you is to use Banshee to rip them, and Musicbrainz to add cover art [17:56] that's my current workflow [17:56] :( [17:56] If you want ship them to me and I'll rip them for you. :) [17:56] don't temp me [17:56] :) [17:56] tempt, heh [17:56] don't /tmp me, bro [17:56] hah [17:57] But yeah, I've put my CDs into storage for the most part [17:57] I love CDs, and they're awesome, but I don't want to cart them around [17:58] the thing about cds for us is ease. It's easier for Carrie to riffle through cds, put in player, press play, then to scroll through some folder/whatever hierarchy :/ [17:58] though, I haven't used a squeezebox, so it might be way simple/easy with a 2 year old on your head [17:58] (literally) [17:59] There's Android apps that interface with the SB [17:59] so you can type whatever you want into the app and have it play [17:59] Orange Squeeze is the one that I'd recommend as the simplest [17:59] Squeeze Commander is the most powerful [18:00] and allows you to download tracks to your phone [18:00] so, for my evening listening enjoyment when rowan's asleep, I listen to live concerts (thanks archive.org/etree.org), does SB compress in transit? [18:00] lossly [18:00] Not unless you tell it to [18:00] * greg-g nods [18:00] cool [18:00] I can tell the difference between flac and mp3 with my good headphones from those recording [18:00] s [18:01] http://archive.org/post/416211/live-music-archive-on-squeezebox [18:01] * greg-g promises he isn't an audiophile [18:01] oh gosh, you are just such the temptress [18:01] Seriously, this thing is amazing. [18:01] oh, that says it doesn't work [18:02] Yeah, I'm not sure if that's changed. Let me check [18:02] it's listed on the sq apps site [18:02] so I assume it works [18:02] (stupid sb app site doesn't provide me urls that go anywhere/where I am) [18:02] Yeah [18:03] hmmmmm [18:03] alright [18:03] * greg-g ponders [18:04] Apparently the UE radio can be "upgraded" to a Squeezebox radio [18:04] it's mono, but it has a nice interface. [18:04] and it's $100 [18:05] much better price range :) [18:05] after spending $500 on nas+harddrives.... [18:05] :( [18:05] Yeah, that's what I figured. [18:05] Plus most radio stations support streaming [18:06] The only ones that didn't for a while were the CBS stations (WWJ, and WOMC) [18:06] which, whatever. [18:06] does it not have an am/fm tuner? [18:07] No, it doesn't. It's strictly an Internet device [18:07] hrmmm [18:07] not that there's good radio around us, anyways [18:08] and (privacy tin-foil-hats-engage) they strongly slant the device to use mysqueezebox.com for plugins and some management [18:08] ie: Pandora / SiriusXM / etc. [18:08] I mean, I get a real radiowave broadcast of Pacifica (Democracy Now! and friends) but... yeah [18:10] I just did a search on Umphrey's McGee for the Live Music Archive search [18:11] selected a 2012 concert, and I'm now listening to UM [18:12] huh. It's streaming the mp3 file [18:12] not sure how to tell it otherwise. [18:13] greg-g: Nice thing too is you can set it up tonight without buying hardware [18:13] There's squeezebox clients for Linux [18:15] :) [18:15] It's how I stream music to work from my SB. [18:15] and you have access to the source (it's in Perl) [18:16] you lost me at Perl [18:16] The firmware uses Lua. ;) [18:16] whew [18:16] something sane [18:17] hah [18:17] Anywho, if you have any questions about it let me know. I'm really pleased with how it's integrated into my setup. [18:18] * greg-g nods [18:18] thanks man [18:18] np [18:18] Hope it helps. :) [18:18] (don't want to be "that guy". :)) [18:18] probably won't pull the trigger until Sunday night on any hardware, so more time to think/research [18:20] kk [18:23] Well this is awesome. Apparently my links to Jamendo stations evaporated. [18:59] cmaloney: tieguy recommended Sonos.... fight! [19:10] bah, sonos needs an app, there is no on-device UI [19:11] Sonos is also not OSS afaik [19:11] And there aren't players for all known OSes [19:12] greg-g: How is Debian treating you? [19:12] yeah, dang tieguy and his hate of floss [19:12] And I don't know the state of the Sonos community, but there's a thriving Squeezebox community. [19:12] cmaloney: cool [19:12] brousch: things looking good :) [19:12] There's even a project underway to create a new hardware client [19:12] huh [19:12] with some of the former developers. [19:13] So even with Logitech turning a blind eye to the Squeezebox there's still activity. [19:17] greg-g: I've been using Debian with XFCE on the RaspberryPi and a VM and I like how it is going [19:18] cool [19:21] Kivy seems to run fine on it, so that is nice [20:26] how can I file a bug that section is not listed here: http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/git-svn [20:33] "section'? [20:39] yes, the Section: output of dpkg -p or apt-cache show [20:39] from the debian/control file [20:41] what the hell, ed vielmetti is everywhere [20:41] https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/outages/2013-November/006169.html [20:42] * greg-g does a /names to make sure he isn't in here [20:49] awesome non-apology by Canonical :/ [20:50] * brousch starts the popcorn popper and grabs a beer https://twitter.com/mitechie/status/398907208357773312 [20:51] brousch: :P [20:54] Come on! where's the show? [20:54] brousch: heh, I replied :P [20:55] I'm guessing he's ranting against git-flow the tool vs git-flow the idea/practice [20:55] but who knows [20:55] honestly, I don't take my progamming life lessons from crute [20:58] Who do you take them from? [21:35] what should canonical appologize for? [21:36] Enforcing their trademarks. Those slimy bastards! [21:36] jrwren: dumb trademark cease and desist letter to a site telling people how to turn off the privacy-icky things [21:36] I mean, if you already know that, then: [21:37] the site that was top of hacker news today? [21:37] being overzealous [21:37] who the hell reads hacker news? [21:37] :P [21:37] exactly. [21:38] It was also on Reddit [21:38] who reads reddit? I only look at images [21:38] * greg-g ain't a reeeder [21:38] it's canonical/ubuntu hating. Clearly canonical/ubuntu should go away :P [21:39] it's just bad trademark enforcement honestly [21:39] WMF enforces trademarks (way more, by number, than canonical) but we don't send generic letters to sites run by EFF peeps ;) [21:40] how does the boycott novel guy feel about ubuntu? [21:40] :) [21:45] I don't understand the git flow hatred. It seems to work well enough for my thought processes. [21:48] jcastro: http://www.fathomevents.com/event/rush