[00:03] <widox> haha
[00:09] <tony-smlr> SMLR is Live Now (11/9/13@7:00pm) Video http://youtu.be/gR5nWL0ai-I  , Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
[01:41] <derekv> what should I be when I grow up?
[01:46] <rick_h_> a firefighter, no doubt
[02:00] <widox> I've been thinking about opening a fruit & vegie stand
[02:04] <rick_h_> darn it derekv, you had to go find broken things. :P
[12:57] <cmaloney> morning
[12:57] <brousch> yes
[13:13] <rick_h_> morning
[13:16] <brousch> GiveCamp starts tonight
[13:16] <brousch> I hope I'm not too old to keep up with the hipsters
[13:20] <rick_h_> lol, go teach those whipper-snappers a thing or two
[13:21] <brousch> At least it's a django project we're working on
[13:22] <rick_h_> booooo!
[13:23] <jjesse> morning rick_h_
[13:23] <brousch> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/11/07/2328228/gimp-citing-ad-policies-moves-to-ftp-rather-than-sourceforge-downloads
[13:25] <rick_h_> heh, floored it took this long tbh
[13:26] <brousch> I feel bad for my SF friends
[13:26] <brousch> They don't make these policies but they endure questions
[14:04] <jrwren> why are they even still using SF?
[14:04] <jrwren> move to github, use their archive and release features ;P
[14:04] <jrwren> silly gimp
[14:06] <trevlar> ugggh sorry everyone
[14:06] <trevlar> for the join spam
[14:17] <rick_h_> yay, ec2 machine retirement worked around. Sorry for the few min of bookie downtime
[14:51] <cmaloney> brousch: Sad thing is it's only a few projects that are doing the ad-supported downloads but they cause people to question every project
[14:54] <brousch> It sounds like Gimp didn't green-light the bundler, so it was forced on them by SF. People have to wonder if their project is  next
[14:54] <cmaloney> yeah, I didn't catch that initially.
[14:55] <cmaloney> That's really, really slimy.
[14:55] <jrwren> i'm unsure why this is surprising.
[14:55] <jrwren> SF has been evil for a long time now.
[14:56] <cmaloney> jrwren: Questionable, yes. Some of those ads were purposefully misleading
[14:56] <cmaloney> evil, notsomuch
[14:56] <cmaloney> But this latest spate is evil.
[14:56] <cmaloney> It's taking advantage of people
[14:56] <brousch> Dave told when they get reports of bad ads they take them down
[14:57] <brousch> I guess they don't vet every ad before it goes up
[14:57] <rick_h_> yea, it's slimy. They've been slimy for a while business-wise.
[14:57] <rick_h_> but the troule is when the business and the devs collide which is why brousch gets :(
[14:58] <brousch> They love the project (Allura) but hate the business side
[14:58] <cmaloney> That's been true for a while.
[14:59] <cmaloney> Because the business side is making it harder for them to justify working on the Allura side.
[15:00] <cmaloney> It's like finding out your research in quantum mechanics is going to kill people.
[15:00] <cmaloney> (OK, not so much in the extreme, but you get the idea)
[15:01] <cmaloney> I'm planning on moving what little code I have left on SF.net over to githug.
[15:01] <cmaloney> github, even
[15:04] <brousch> They should call pull requests githugs
[15:05] <rick_h_> ummm....denied!
[15:05] <brousch> "I just sent you a githug for bookie!"
[15:06] <rick_h_> "Please keep your hands to yourself"
[15:06] <brousch> 5 githugs are waiting for you!
[15:06] <rick_h_> lol
[15:06] <rick_h_> add it to the xkcd for today
[15:10] <trevlar> how long till a chrome extension shows up that comic?
[15:11] <rick_h_> trevlar: already there?
[15:11] <rick_h_> and I'm right https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/xkcd-substitutions/jkgogmboalmaijfgfhfepckdgjeopfhk?hl=en&gl=001
[15:11] <rick_h_> thank you google for making that easy to find on my first try so fast after comit release
[15:12] <trevlar> lol
[15:12] <trevlar> https://github.com/h2s/xkcd-substitutions
[15:12] <cmaloney> Just sent a note to my friends at SF.net. I included this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0lr63y4Mw
[15:13] <cmaloney> Well, their new community manager.
[15:14] <cmaloney> But he and I worked together, and I trust him.
[15:23] <jrwren> cmaloney: we disagree on what evil means. :p
[15:24] <jrwren> and... wtf is Allura ?
[15:24] <cmaloney> https://sourceforge.net/projects/allura/
[15:25] <jrwren> does it have lots of ads OOTB ?
[15:25] <cmaloney> I don't believe so but can't confirm. :)
[15:26] <cmaloney> https://github.com/marijnh/Eloquent-JavaScript
[15:26] <cmaloney> Apparently it's going through a second edition
[15:27] <rick_h_> cool, JS people like this book as a good solid first book for folks
[15:27] <rick_h_> I wasn't as big a fan, but it was something like my 10th+ JS book
[15:27] <cmaloney> yeah, my own failings in Javascript are in no way attributable to this book
[15:27] <jrwren> all ya need is crockford.
[15:27] <jrwren> everything else is superfluous
[15:27] <rick_h_> lol
[15:28] <cmaloney> Crockford is a great map of the landmines, but what I'd like to know is if there's a fucking beach under there. :)
[15:32] <brousch> jrwren: Allura has no ads. Those are part of the proprietary SF add-ons
[15:32] <rick_h_> experience. just have to get through the learning curve
[15:32] <rick_h_> 'the good parts' is probably the best book and finding good code is the second thing to do, then get writing
[15:32] <rick_h_> JS is like all other languages. Don't try to write it like something else
[15:32] <rick_h_> C-looking python is a pati
[15:32] <rick_h_> pita that is
[15:32] <rick_h_> and trying to make JS look like python will suck as well
[15:36]  * brousch hides his javascript
[15:37] <rick_h_> come on, it'll never get better if you don't have others to learn from
[15:37] <rick_h_> <3 code reviews
[15:37] <rick_h_> as brutal as they can be, it's how you get better at crap
[15:37] <rick_h_> at least learn/see new ways
[15:37] <brousch> My JS looks as much like Python as I can make it
[15:37] <rick_h_> did you know you can check something with collections.Mapping? That was totally new to me
[15:37] <rick_h_> jrwren: might like that one
[15:37] <brousch> I hate the usual JS function in function in function
[15:38] <rick_h_> then don't do that :)
[15:44] <brousch> But when I look at JS examples, that's how they are
[15:45] <rick_h_> yea, but do you know why?
[15:45] <rick_h_> once you understand the rules, you can work around the rules :)
[15:45] <jrwren> rick_h_: java looking python can be worse :)
[15:46] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea :/
[15:46] <brousch> It is because JS people don't like to name functions. They like to inline everything
[15:46] <rick_h_> jrwren: but we've already got some of that
[15:46] <jrwren> i think collections.Mapping is new in ES6 ?
[15:46] <rick_h_> brousch: no and no :P
[15:46] <rick_h_> jrwren: no, it's in python. I saw someone use it to compare if it was a 'dict-like' something
[15:47] <jrwren> i've not used that.
[15:48] <rick_h_> yea, I hadn't seen collections.Mapping/etc in there. Was kind of cool. Anyway, code reviews showing new ways/things is cool
[15:48] <jrwren> its an abstract base.
[15:48] <jrwren> so were they calling type() and comparing?
[15:48] <rick_h_> isinstance
[15:48] <rick_h_> yea
[15:48] <jrwren> yup
[15:49] <jrwren> makes great sense.
[15:49] <jrwren> that way it works if it is a dict, or an OrderedDict or any other dict like thing
[15:49] <rick_h_> right
[15:49] <jrwren> alhtough the catch is that your dict like thing needs to inherit from Mapping rather than just be a duck.
[15:49] <jrwren> ah python... turning its back on duck typing :)
[15:50] <jrwren> now what would be SWEET, and why I like GO is if python adopted implicit interfaces.
[15:50] <rick_h_> ugh, except for the joys of chasing down where that method came from
[15:50] <jrwren> so a new type need not inherit from Mapping, but as soon as it has __getitem__, __setitem__, __delitem__, __iter__, and __len__ it isinstance(Mapping)
[15:51] <jrwren> tags, vim and ctrl-] makes that easy if not trivial
[15:51] <jrwren> and if that fails, git grep :p
[15:57] <cmaloney> Until I can convince folks to get postgresql / hstore in here, this is proving to be a nice alternative for simple key/value store: http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_8/orm/collections.html#dictionary-collections
[16:01] <cmaloney> Also, nosetests --pdb is awesome
[16:02] <cmaloney> Helping with my feeble attempts at TDD
[16:21] <greg-g> so, trademarks, discuss
[16:21] <greg-g> ;)
[16:22] <brousch> I only trade marks when mine are worn out
[16:22] <greg-g> funnily enough, I have a call in 8 minutes with Mark and Markus
[16:47] <cmaloney> My impression is that UK trademark law is a little more stringent than US trademark law, but I have nothing more than anecdotal evidence to back that thought.
[16:49] <cmaloney> I'm disappointed with both sides, frankly
[16:57] <rick_h_> greg-g: :P
[17:02] <cmaloney> Apparently the latest Logitech UE firmware will let you "upgrade" it to a Squeezebox Radio
[17:02] <cmaloney> cue happy dance.
[17:28] <greg-g> cmaloney: help! https://identi.ca/greg/note/uleMo4q2Q2qiTydzvr5Shw
[17:47] <cmaloney> greg-g: Want my honest opinion on how to tackle this? :)
[17:48] <greg-g> if it involves installing a linux distro, no
[17:48] <greg-g> cmaloney: otherwise I'm all ears :)
[17:48] <cmaloney> It involves a Squeezebox and a server.
[17:49] <cmaloney> Not necessarily Logitech's hardware though.
[17:50] <cmaloney> But that'll give you the DLNA support, and FLAC / ogg / mp3 support
[17:50] <greg-g> so, two distros to set up :)
[17:50] <greg-g> well, I'm solving the otherone with a synology nas (with DLNA support)
[17:50] <cmaloney> http://www.synology.com/releaseNote_enu/SqueezeboxServer.php
[17:51] <greg-g> wat
[17:51] <greg-g> ah
[17:51] <greg-g> so, still need the cd player part though :/
[17:52] <greg-g> have too many cds that aren't on the NAS yet
[17:55] <cmaloney> greg-g: Best advice I can give you is to use Banshee to rip them, and Musicbrainz to add cover art
[17:56] <cmaloney> that's my current workflow
[17:56] <greg-g> :(
[17:56] <cmaloney> If you want ship them to me and I'll rip them for you. :)
[17:56] <greg-g> don't temp me
[17:56] <greg-g> :)
[17:56] <greg-g> tempt, heh
[17:56] <greg-g> don't /tmp me, bro
[17:56] <cmaloney> hah
[17:57] <cmaloney> But yeah, I've put my CDs into storage for the most part
[17:57] <cmaloney> I love CDs, and they're awesome, but I don't want to cart them around
[17:58] <greg-g> the thing about cds for us is ease. It's easier for Carrie to riffle through cds, put in player, press play, then to scroll through some folder/whatever hierarchy :/
[17:58] <greg-g> though, I haven't used a squeezebox, so it might be way simple/easy with a 2 year old on your head
[17:58] <greg-g> (literally)
[17:59] <cmaloney> There's Android apps that interface with the SB
[17:59] <cmaloney> so you can type whatever you want into the app and have it play
[17:59] <cmaloney> Orange Squeeze is the one that I'd recommend as the simplest
[17:59] <cmaloney> Squeeze Commander is the most powerful
[18:00] <cmaloney> and allows you to download tracks to your phone
[18:00] <greg-g> so, for my evening listening enjoyment when rowan's asleep, I listen to live concerts (thanks archive.org/etree.org), does SB compress in transit?
[18:00] <greg-g> lossly
[18:00] <cmaloney> Not unless you tell it to
[18:00]  * greg-g nods
[18:00] <greg-g> cool
[18:00] <greg-g> I can tell the difference between flac and mp3 with my good headphones from those recording
[18:00] <greg-g> s
[18:01] <cmaloney> http://archive.org/post/416211/live-music-archive-on-squeezebox
[18:01]  * greg-g promises he isn't an audiophile
[18:01] <greg-g> oh gosh, you are just such the temptress
[18:01] <cmaloney> Seriously, this thing is amazing.
[18:01] <greg-g> oh, that says it doesn't work
[18:02] <cmaloney> Yeah, I'm not sure if that's changed. Let me check
[18:02] <greg-g> it's listed on the sq apps site
[18:02] <greg-g> so I assume it works
[18:02] <greg-g> (stupid sb app site doesn't provide me urls that go anywhere/where I am)
[18:02] <cmaloney> Yeah
[18:03] <greg-g> hmmmmm
[18:03] <greg-g> alright
[18:03]  * greg-g ponders
[18:04] <cmaloney> Apparently the UE radio can be "upgraded" to a Squeezebox radio
[18:04] <cmaloney> it's mono, but it has a nice interface.
[18:04] <cmaloney> and it's $100
[18:05] <greg-g> much better price range :)
[18:05] <greg-g> after spending $500 on nas+harddrives....
[18:05] <greg-g> :(
[18:05] <cmaloney> Yeah, that's what I figured.
[18:05] <cmaloney> Plus most radio stations support streaming
[18:06] <cmaloney> The only ones that didn't for a while were the CBS stations (WWJ, and WOMC)
[18:06] <cmaloney> which, whatever.
[18:06] <greg-g> does it not have an am/fm tuner?
[18:07] <cmaloney> No, it doesn't. It's strictly an Internet device
[18:07] <greg-g> hrmmm
[18:07] <greg-g> not that there's good radio around us, anyways
[18:08] <cmaloney> and (privacy tin-foil-hats-engage) they strongly slant the device to use mysqueezebox.com for plugins and some management
[18:08] <cmaloney> ie: Pandora / SiriusXM / etc.
[18:08] <greg-g> I mean, I get a real radiowave broadcast of Pacifica (Democracy Now! and friends) but... yeah
[18:10] <cmaloney> I just did a search on Umphrey's McGee for the Live Music Archive search
[18:11] <cmaloney> selected a 2012 concert, and I'm now listening to UM
[18:12] <cmaloney> huh. It's streaming the mp3 file
[18:12] <cmaloney> not sure how to tell it otherwise.
[18:13] <cmaloney> greg-g: Nice thing too is you can set it up tonight without buying hardware
[18:13] <cmaloney> There's squeezebox clients for Linux
[18:15] <greg-g> :)
[18:15] <cmaloney> It's how I stream music to work from my SB.
[18:15] <cmaloney> and you have access to the source (it's in Perl)
[18:16] <greg-g> you lost me at Perl
[18:16] <cmaloney> The firmware uses Lua. ;)
[18:16] <greg-g> whew
[18:16] <greg-g> something sane
[18:17] <cmaloney> hah
[18:17] <cmaloney> Anywho, if you have any questions about it let me know. I'm really pleased with how it's integrated into my setup.
[18:18]  * greg-g nods
[18:18] <greg-g> thanks man
[18:18] <cmaloney> np
[18:18] <cmaloney> Hope it helps. :)
[18:18] <cmaloney> (don't want to be "that guy". :))
[18:18] <greg-g> probably won't pull the trigger until Sunday night on any hardware, so more time to think/research
[18:20] <cmaloney> kk
[18:23] <cmaloney> Well this is awesome. Apparently my links to Jamendo stations evaporated.
[18:59] <greg-g> cmaloney: tieguy recommended Sonos.... fight!
[19:10] <greg-g> bah, sonos needs an app, there is no on-device UI
[19:11] <cmaloney> Sonos is also not OSS afaik
[19:11] <cmaloney> And there aren't players for all known OSes
[19:12] <brousch> greg-g: How is Debian treating you?
[19:12] <greg-g> yeah, dang tieguy and his hate of floss
[19:12] <cmaloney> And I don't know the state of the Sonos community, but there's a thriving Squeezebox community.
[19:12] <greg-g> cmaloney: cool
[19:12] <greg-g> brousch: things looking good :)
[19:12] <cmaloney> There's even a project underway to create a new hardware client
[19:12] <greg-g> huh
[19:12] <cmaloney> with some of the former developers.
[19:13] <cmaloney> So even with Logitech turning a blind eye to the Squeezebox there's still activity.
[19:17] <brousch> greg-g: I've been using Debian with XFCE on the RaspberryPi and a VM and I like how it is going
[19:18] <greg-g> cool
[19:21] <brousch> Kivy seems to run fine on it, so that is nice
[20:26] <jrwren> how can I file a bug that section is not listed here: http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/git-svn
[20:33] <rick_h_> "section'?
[20:39] <jrwren> yes, the Section: output of dpkg -p or apt-cache show
[20:39] <jrwren> from the debian/control file
[20:41] <greg-g> what the hell, ed vielmetti is everywhere
[20:41] <greg-g> https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/outages/2013-November/006169.html
[20:42]  * greg-g does a /names to make sure he isn't in here
[20:49] <greg-g> awesome non-apology by Canonical :/
[20:50]  * brousch starts the popcorn popper and grabs a beer https://twitter.com/mitechie/status/398907208357773312
[20:51] <rick_h_> brousch: :P
[20:54] <brousch> Come on! where's the show?
[20:54] <rick_h_> brousch: heh, I replied :P
[20:55] <rick_h_> I'm guessing he's ranting against git-flow the tool vs git-flow the idea/practice
[20:55] <rick_h_> but who knows
[20:55] <rick_h_> honestly, I don't take my progamming life lessons from crute
[20:58] <brousch> Who do you take them from?
[21:35] <jrwren> what should canonical appologize for?
[21:36] <brousch> Enforcing their trademarks. Those slimy bastards!
[21:36] <greg-g> jrwren: dumb trademark cease and desist letter to a site telling people how to turn off the privacy-icky things
[21:36] <greg-g> I mean, if you already know that, then:
[21:37] <jrwren> the site that was top of hacker news today?
[21:37] <greg-g> being overzealous
[21:37] <greg-g> who the hell reads hacker news?
[21:37] <greg-g> :P
[21:37] <jrwren> exactly.
[21:38] <brousch> It was also on Reddit
[21:38] <greg-g> who reads reddit? I only look at images
[21:38]  * greg-g ain't a reeeder
[21:38] <rick_h_> it's canonical/ubuntu hating. Clearly canonical/ubuntu should go away :P
[21:39] <greg-g> it's just bad trademark enforcement honestly
[21:39] <greg-g> WMF enforces trademarks (way more, by number, than canonical) but we don't send generic letters to sites run by EFF peeps ;)
[21:40] <jrwren> how does the boycott novel guy feel about ubuntu?
[21:40] <greg-g> :)
[21:45] <cmaloney> I don't understand the git flow hatred. It seems to work well enough for my thought processes.
[21:48] <cmaloney> jcastro: http://www.fathomevents.com/event/rush