/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/09/#ubuntu-tn-meeting.txt

elacheche_anisBonsoir willieseabrook & lunapersa :) :)19:42
lunapersaBonsoir19:42
lunapersa@ tous19:42
lunapersa:D19:42
elacheche_anisD'accord, juste pour info, on aime bien que le log de cet chennel irc reste clean, pour qu'on peut l'utiliser dans nos rapports (je parle des deux commuanuté là :) ) :) alors nous discuterons ici que les points qu'on a pas discuter sur la ML, et pour le questions et les chat on peut les faire sur #ubuntu-tn ou #drupal-tunisia19:54
lunapersaParfait :)20:00
elacheche_anisAlors, on commence?20:16
elacheche_anisJe pense qu'on va se baser sur ce mail: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-tn/2013-October/013161.html20:16
willieseabrookoui20:16
lunapersad'accord :)20:17
elacheche_aniswillieseabrook, vous avez des remarques concernant le mail? Tu pense qu'on doit ajouter quelque chose?20:17
willieseabrookyes, some things20:18
* elacheche_anis va pas utiliser le système de demande de parole traditionel des meetings car on est déjà 4 et y a pas un risque de trolling20:18
elacheche_anisok willieseabrook20:18
willieseabrooki think my primary concern is ensuring we have stable internet during the event20:18
willieseabrooki saw you suggested a package mirror20:19
willieseabrookso i guess to enumerate some questions20:19
elacheche_anisgo ahead20:20
willieseabrook1. how exactly will the package mirror work20:21
willieseabrook1.a how will this work in with the fact we will be using orange and tunisiana usb dongles to access the internet20:21
willieseabrook2. have you used your proposed system configuration before (how confident are you the approach will work on the day)20:21
elacheche_anisOk, the mirror will be used as an APT proxy.. so apt will not connect directly to the internet but will connect to the apt-cacher server(it can be any pc) apt-cacher will download all the packages that we need for lamp stack, so if an other pc will try to download them the packages will be served from the apt-cacher server20:23
elacheche_anislook at the graph http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/_media/image/apt-cacher-server.png?w=45020:24
elacheche_anisIf we have a stable internet connection that can download the lamp server package for one time we can use the same packages for all the other pcs20:25
willieseabrooklike this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Apt-Cacher-Server20:26
willieseabrook?20:26
elacheche_anisthere is an other way to do that without using apt-cacher... we can download lamp stack one in a ubuntu fresh installation then we share the debs using the lan or usb keys then installing them using sudo dpkg -i *.deb20:26
elacheche_anisyes willieseabrook that's it.. but the installation and the configuration is much easier than what they write in the wiki20:27
elacheche_anishttp://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/apt-cacher20:27
Drupalizerjust another question : Are you going to create a local network ?20:28
willieseabrooki don't think that *was* planned, but i think it *should* be planned20:28
elacheche_anisI was thinking that the room will have already an lan?! :o there is no lan in the city or sciences?! :o20:29
elacheche_anis?20:29
willieseabrookno, last time they said no20:30
willieseabrookthere is wifi, but it is a joke20:30
willieseabrookworse than dialup20:30
elacheche_anisWe can use a wireless AP to serve our wlan.. So in this case the pc that will be connected to the internet will share it via wifi20:31
DrupalizerSharing connections I have a good Wireless card we can use it as AP20:31
DrupalizerALPHA AWUS036H20:32
elacheche_anisok.. in the worst cases we'll drop any online solution and use the offline solution: <elacheche_anis> there is an other way to do that without using apt-cacher... we can download lamp stack one in a ubuntu fresh installation then we share the debs using the lan or usb keys then installing them using sudo dpkg -i *.deb20:32
elacheche_anisWe need to prepare the two solutions :) if s1 don't work we switch to s220:33
willieseabrookwith pfsense + computer with 3 lan ports + 2 usb dongles with lan adapters + wireless ap we can build a good network20:33
willieseabrooksee http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5COzizaMYQ for the pfsense side20:33
willieseabrookwe MUST have working internet20:34
elacheche_anisYes I'm ok.. but I think that there is no ubuntu-tn member in Tunis that can helps you building that :/ unfortunately I'm in sousse :/20:34
willieseabrooki've spoken to the angry cactus and he's happy to pay for any tech we need to buy20:35
Drupalizer^^20:35
willieseabrookbonsoir rached20:35
rachedbonsoir willieseabrook :)20:35
elacheche_anishey rached :)20:36
rachedbonsoir à tous20:36
rachedhey elacheche_anis  :)20:36
Drupalizerbsr rached20:36
lunapersaBonsoir :)20:36
racheddsl pour le retard !20:36
rachedbonsoir lunapersa :)20:36
elacheche_anisSo willieseabrook who can build that?? Drupalizer or you?20:36
willieseabrookits possible i could do it20:37
willieseabrookI've not done network stuff for a while, maybe it would take me a day20:37
willieseabrookso it's possible20:38
DrupalizerI am up for it as well :)20:38
elacheche_anisOk, or you can just share Internet via you're laptop wifi without any of the other things20:39
willieseabrookwell ultimately my laptop must access the internet somehow20:41
DrupalizerYeah but I think we still need cache server because of the down speed :) and packages size20:41
elacheche_anisit can be done vi the netwok manager20:41
elacheche_anisthe apt-cacher need just apache.. So I don't think that'll be a big problem if we have a shared Internet vi wlan20:42
Drupalizergood20:42
elacheche_anisrached, lunapersa any other thoughts??20:43
elacheche_aniswillieseabrook, any other questions before we move on to the planing :D20:43
lunapersano20:44
willieseabrookthat is my question on internet for now. i think it's the major risk factor at the moment - an install party without internet20:44
willieseabrooki'm happy to discuss planning the actual install stuff, and we can come back to the internet afterwards. i'm doing some research now20:45
Drupalizerok20:45
elacheche_anisOk.. for the install party, we'll use Live USBs.. we don't have a LoCo pack :(20:46
elacheche_anisOr we burn some CDs for the event.. I can do that if you think that the usb solution will cause some problems :/20:47
rachedelacheche_anis: may be we could use one of the  "ADSL pack" that the CLLFSM or Netlinks won on the SFD !20:47
elacheche_anisrached, how? O_o20:48
DrupalizerI believe USB faster ^^ but how many you can provide ?20:48
rachedwe sould just ask them :)20:49
elacheche_anisCan't understand what you mean rached :) How can we use the ADSL pack in the City of Science?20:49
rachedelacheche_anis: yep : i'm sorry, I didn't pay attention :p20:51
elacheche_anisLoooL.. So we'll use willieseabrook's solution :) 3G + Sharing20:52
Drupalizer+1 ^^20:52
willieseabrookdo you guys have any 3g keys?20:52
rachedno20:53
willieseabrookok, we have 220:54
willieseabrookthat's 10 concurrent connections (5 each) in theory20:54
elacheche_anisI have 2GB data to use in my phone.. we can use my phone to provide 3G too..20:54
willieseabrookfor the install, the ubuntu guys will bring bootable cds to install from?20:55
elacheche_aniswillieseabrook, we don't have a LoCo pack for now :/ But I can burn some CDs20:56
elacheche_anisOr we can use Live USBs, Ok, about the question of Drupalizer, we can create USB keys for the persons who needs them, we can have 30min of usb live creation before the Install Party20:57
elacheche_anisAny ways we'll use Ubuntu 12.04.3 LTS20:57
willieseabrookbienvenue tarekdj20:58
tarekdjmerci willieseabrook :)20:58
elacheche_aniswillieseabrook, If we'll use USBs so there will be no problem.. we'll share the same image before the Install Party.. Or I'll burn 20 or 30 CDs.. Do we know the many people will be present?21:01
Drupalizerelacheche_anis I think yeah having both options is better ^^21:01
willieseabrookmore options is always safter21:02
willieseabrook*always safer21:02
elacheche_anis+121:02
elacheche_anisDo we know the many people will be present?21:02
tarekdj+1 usb + cd21:02
willieseabrookawesome, all agreed on that then21:03
willieseabrookwe don't know how many will come. how many do you think we will get if we start promoting the event on Facebook on monday.21:03
elacheche_aniswillieseabrook, I can be sure that will be at least 1/2 the number of personnes that will hit the "going" button21:05
elacheche_anismay be 1/3 or 1/4 :D21:06
rachedmore than the last time : that's for sure21:06
rachedbecause there will be a "training"21:06
willieseabrookso the stats from our last drupal meet up. on Facebook, 271 said yes they would come, 91 said maybe21:06
willieseabrookand we got 70 coming21:07
willieseabrookso to estimate, we should use the following figure21:07
willieseabrook70/362 = 20% of Facebook registrations21:07
elacheche_anis:D21:07
willieseabrookwell I'm just happy we have the number. the first time we have *no idea*21:08
elacheche_anisHow many seats do we have in the room?21:09
willieseabrookenough seats and tables for 60-70 people21:11
willieseabrooki think enough seats for around 90 - 100 people21:12
willieseabrookbut only enough tables to comfortably seat 60 or 70 i estimate21:12
elacheche_anisok21:12
willieseabrookso we were thinking we would split off visitors onto tables of 5 - 7 people, with 1 - 2 leaders from ubuntu/drupal21:13
willieseabrookand then just help people through the process21:13
willieseabrookis that a good way to do it? ubuntu has much more experience in this, so i will do what you suggest21:13
elacheche_anisthat'll be the perfect choice21:14
elacheche_anisYes yes.. We was thinking about the same thing too..21:14
Drupalizergood ^^21:14
elacheche_anisAfter 5 or 10 min of presentation we start the workshops with separated groups..21:14
elacheche_aniswillieseabrook, the event starts @09am??21:16
willieseabrookwell i was thinking that all the organisers arrive around 9am. then we have people come from 11:00am onwards21:17
willieseabrookwe say on the promotion, "you are welcome to arrive from 11:00am to 3:00pm. do not arrive later than 3:00pm if you want to finish"21:17
willieseabrookthat way we:21:17
willieseabrook1. leaders get to meet and plan and prepare before people arrive21:17
elacheche_anisOk, we'll have just 3 workshops ( ubunu install party, lamp stack installation, drupal installation) ??21:18
willieseabrook2. we don't get overwhelmed by everyone coming all at the same time21:18
elacheche_anisOk (like that), we'll have just 3 workshops ( ubunu install party, lamp stack installation, drupal installation) ??21:19
willieseabrookshould we even do seperate "workshops"? or just ensure that there's always at least 1 ubuntu expert sitting with each group, 1 lamp expert, 1 drupal expert etc21:19
elacheche_anisWhat do you mean by separate workshops?21:20
willieseabrookyou said: "we'll have just 3 workshops ( ubunu install party, lamp stack installation, drupal installation) "21:20
willieseabrookahhhh. maybe you mean 3 separate areas. 1 area where people are generally installing ubuntu. then they get up and move to the 2nd area where they generally install lamp. then the 3rd area for drupal?21:21
DrupalizerNo I dont agree with that willieseabrook21:22
elacheche_anisI thinkvthat we need to start them one by one 1.ubunu install party, 2.lamp stack installation, 3.drupal installation21:22
elacheche_anisAnd in that case yes there will be a druapl expert and an ubuntu-tn member in every groupe to help them..21:22
willieseabrookso everyone who comes starts at the same time? so we should say everyone must arrive at 11am (or 10am etc)21:23
willieseabrooki'm not sure i understand what you suggest21:23
elacheche_anisyes..21:23
DrupalizerI think start installing Ubuntu / Lamp after finishing start installing Drupal21:24
Drupalizerno need to separate or move to another table ^^21:24
elacheche_anisSo everybody will install ubuntu, then install lamp then install drupal..21:25
DrupalizerJust An Ubuntu / Drupal guys jumping from a table to another21:25
Drupalizermentoring :)21:25
Drupalizerany suggestion ?21:26
willieseabrookok, so we need to ensure that we say on the promotion that everyone must arrive at a specific time21:26
elacheche_anisThat's it..21:26
willieseabrookwhat do we do if people come late? some people could come in after an hour or 2 late21:26
Drupalizerwillieseabrook I think anyone come will be served from 11 to 3 pm21:27
willieseabrooklol i'm so confused. but elacheche_anis said that we must start everyone at the same time, installing ubuntu. then we do a presentation and everyone at the same time installs lamp. then we do a presentation and then everyone installs drupal21:28
willieseabrook(that's not my suggestion, that's my *understanding* of what everyone else is suggesting)21:28
elacheche_anisYes that's what I was thinking about..21:28
elacheche_anisBut you're right if some people come late, how can we react :/21:28
Drupalizerwe cant grantie that everyone gonna come on time21:29
elacheche_anisrached, lunapersa, kawarizmi any ideas?21:29
DrupalizerWorkshop is dynamic21:29
DrupalizerAnyone will come will be served :)21:29
Drupalizerbut from 11 am to 3 pm21:29
rachedwe have to serve all the pepole all the time but we should make sure that those who will came late will not disturbe the presentations or make a big noise21:31
willieseabrookrached then those who come late will be forced to wait and do nothing21:31
willieseabrookwe could run a series of sessions. for example, a new group starts every hour21:32
elacheche_anisHow about: we start everyone at the same time, installing ubuntu. then we do a presentation and everyone at the same time installs lamp. then we do a presentation and then everyone installs drupal.. But first we split the people to groups, every group will have mentors, mentors we'll assist one of each group and he will mentor the rest of the group..21:32
DrupalizerI still think every one come can join a table and other guys can help him21:33
willieseabrooki have a proposal that fits both of these ideas21:34
elacheche_anisgo ahead21:34
willieseabrookone that helps us show people in large groups, but also allows for dynamic learning and people coming through the day21:34
willieseabrooki will type it now, 2 mins21:34
elacheche_anisok21:35
willieseabrookthe room is large, and can be split into two rooms with a type of half sound proof wall. in the first half of the room, it is run presentation style. with 3 presentations. 11:00am ubuntu install live on screen, step by step. 12:30 lamp install live on screen, 2:00 drupal install live on screen). but in the other half, we have full communal tables, where anyone can come and go without disturbing the presentation (because of the21:38
willieseabrookseparating wall) and there they can get full help after the presentation.21:38
willieseabrookso21:38
willieseabrook1. we ask that anyone who wants to be a leader arrives at 9:30am.21:38
willieseabrook2. anyone who wants to have their laptop installed can come between 11:00am to 3:00pm, advising them that the whole process will take around 3 hours, and that they must not arrive after 3:00pm (if they want to finish before the end of the day. they are still welcome to come, but just not with the expectation of finishing)21:38
willieseabrook3. that there are three session starting times: 11:00am ubuntu install. 12:30 lamp install, 2:00pm drupal install21:38
willieseabrookfor the leaders at 9:30am, we can all meeting each other and chat, and prepare and agree exactly what we will teach and how21:39
elacheche_anis+121:40
lunapersa+1  aussi21:41
elacheche_anisThe leaders must be members of Drupal-Tunisia or utn?21:41
willieseabrookanyone, drupal tunisia, ubuntu tunisia21:41
rached+121:41
elacheche_anisAnd if we'll have 30 leaders :D !?21:41
willieseabrookit's more "anyone with skills they want to share"21:41
willieseabrookthats what i mean by leader21:41
willieseabrookthey should have enough skills to be able to help noobs21:42
elacheche_anisOk.. So we need to say that in the event announcement21:42
willieseabrookcool, we'll email a draft of that on monday morning, before we post it on facebook21:43
willieseabrookare ubuntu team going to share it on their pages and groups?21:43
elacheche_anisOk.. So everyone who think that he can help noobs he comes @ 9am30 and we teach them what we'll do?!21:43
willieseabrookyes, i think thats best21:44
elacheche_aniswillieseabrook, You can create the FB event usgin DT page or your own FB account, then add me or Ubuntu-tn (the page) as host so we can spread the info as Ubuntu-tn..21:44
willieseabrookawesome. karim will create the event, then add us as admins21:45
elacheche_anisFor as we must create w wiki page & an event in our loco directory..21:45
willieseabrookat our last drupal event, we also collected names and experience levels in drupal. so the people who said they had (a) a lot of drupal experience and (b) would like to help at events, karim will also be calling them to ask them to come as leaders. as an extra push to encourage them to get involved21:46
elacheche_anisOk :D I can help installing drupal too :D I was using it since 2010 and my blog using Drupal :D21:47
willieseabrooki can help installing ubuntu too. without ubuntu, drupal would suck :D21:49
elacheche_anis:D We're the same team :D21:50
willieseabrookso, back to the network, i've been doing some research21:51
Drupalizer-1 ^^21:51
Drupalizerstill dont agree on presentations live install on a video projector and separation :)21:51
willieseabrookdoes anybody have an old PC with at least 3 PCI slots, preferably 4 (for 3 or 4 network ports)21:51
willieseabrookDrupalizer anyone who doesn't want to join in on them, doesn't have to. they can stay in the communal area21:52
DrupalizerOkay21:52
willieseabrooksomeone could come and stay all day just hanging out and helping/coding/hacking whatever, without attending a single presentation21:52
willieseabrookwe're going to have a difficult time to buy a PC with 3-4 network cards, within 1 week in tunis21:53
elacheche_aniswillieseabrook, did you look at the easiest way to share 3G via WiFi using the Ubuntu Network Manager?? :D :D21:54
DrupalizerI have a good wireless card21:56
willieseabrookelacheche_anis sharing the wifi is not a problem, we have shareable wifi from tunisiana21:56
DrupalizerUSB21:56
willieseabrookthe live3g things, they create a wifi network for up to 5 computes21:56
willieseabrookthat's not a problem. the problem is that they only allow 5 connections, and that we need to also connect them to a package cache21:56
elacheche_anis:/ I never try the live3G solution so can't really help from here, sorry :/ :(21:58
DrupalizerOk here it is what I mean21:58
DrupalizerI use the orange USB in a computer which gonna be an AP21:58
Drupalizersharing connection for more than 5 Pc's21:59
Drupalizer^^21:59
willieseabrookyes, that's possible21:59
willieseabrookbut then we still only have a single 3g connection for up to 50 computers21:59
willieseabrookwe also need an apt-cache server and possibly also a caching proxy server22:00
willieseabrooklike squid22:00
elacheche_anis:/22:02
willieseabrookhttp://itkia.com/using-squid-to-cache-apt-updates-for-debian-and-ubuntu/22:02
elacheche_anisgood..22:04
elacheche_anisWould you like to ask in our ML if someone from Tunis can help you on that?22:05
willieseabrookyea, we need a reliable computer supplier22:05
willieseabrooki look online, and it looks like we can buy a computer for ~500 dinars22:05
willieseabrookbut we can't afford to wait for them to get one from a supplier. we need to be able to walk in and buy it22:06
willieseabrookthen Drupalizer I'll buy that shit access point i found (a bad access point is better than no access point)22:07
willieseabrookthen we can set it up in a day, and we should be OK22:07
DrupalizerOk willieseabrook22:08
elacheche_anisOk..22:09
willieseabrookhopefully this will work22:10
willieseabrookoh yea, Drupalizer before we buy we should ask Dali if he has a spare computer22:11
willieseabrookhe may have other computers at home that he hasn't taken into the office yet22:11
DrupalizerYep22:12
willieseabrookthis is what we need22:13
willieseabrookhttp://www.startech.com/Networking-IO/Adapter-Cards/4-Port-PCI-Express-Gigabit-Ethernet-NIC-Network-Adapter-Card~ST1000SPEX422:13
elacheche_anisGood luck to find it :/22:14
willieseabrookyea lol. that was more me expressing a dream22:15
willieseabrooknot a statement of reality22:15
willieseabrook:D22:15
elacheche_anisx)22:16
elacheche_anisSo.. Did we discuss all the points or there is something else?22:18
willieseabrooki think everything has been discussed for now22:19
willieseabrookunless someone else has something to say?22:19
willieseabrookwhat URL do these chats get logged to elacheche_anis?22:19
elacheche_anishttp://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/09/%23ubuntu-tn-meeting.html22:20
elacheche_anisThe bot will finishing his job after we quitte the channel :D22:20
Drupalizergood22:20
elacheche_anisThere is a text version too if you don't like html22:20
elacheche_anisSo, if ther is something else we can discuss it via the ML utn, there is no dtn ML?22:21
willieseabrookno stn mailing list yet22:23
willieseabrook*DTN22:23
willieseabrookit's on our TODO list22:23
elacheche_anis:D22:24
elacheche_anisOk then.. We finish here :D Thank you very much willieseabrook :D I'm so glad to have this discussion with you :D thanks to Drupalizer, rachedn kawarizmi and lunapersa too :D22:26
kawarizmiحظا طيبا22:26
Drupalizeryw ^^22:26
lunapersa^^22:26
willieseabrookthanks to everyone. this was great. i'm very excited to be working together22:26
willieseabrooknext saturday will be fun!22:27
rachedyou're welcome ;)22:27
Drupalizerand Thanks everyone22:27
DrupalizerG.N22:28
elacheche_anisWould you please quite the channel :D So ubuntulog2 can finish his job :D :D :D we switch to #druapl-tunisia and/or #ubuntu-tn :D22:28

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