[02:05] <manchicken> Howdy
[02:07] <ScottK> Howdy
[02:08] <manchicken> I'm going to break libqapt! w00!
[02:09] <ScottK> Go for it.
[02:16] <manchicken> Stand back! I'm using polymorphism.
[02:17] <manchicken> (with the hope that my changes won't break other things)
[02:46] <manchicken> Crap on this... I'm going to write automated tests.
[02:50] <manchicken> Grumble... I don't know how to test all of this stuff...
[02:55] <manchicken> I'm going to have to re-factor this code so that it splits out the part which changes the data and the part where it calls the dbus worker.
[02:58] <manchicken> (unless anybody has any ideas on how I could wrap tests around the qdbus portions as well)
[03:20] <manchicken> Poop... I'm going to have to deal with some fancy new deprecation warnings...
[03:41] <ari-tczew> bug 1236012 - can someone set Importance to medium?
[05:18] <ScottK> Riddell, etc: Please sign up to attend http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/21986/core-1311-qt5-versions-in-ubuntu/ - I'll try to make it, but I don't know if I can.
[06:07] <leif_> greetings
[06:20] <leif_> :)
[06:20] <valorie> leif_: not much happening this evening/morning
[06:21] <valorie> here in the chan, I mean. Do you have a question, concern, etc.?
[06:25] <leif_> no the oposite would love to help 
[06:26] <valorie> cool
[06:27] <leif_> :)
[06:27] <leif_> is trying to learn c and is expirinced in translation and doc
[06:27] <valorie> packaging work in particular is welcome here, so hang out and volunteer when there are people to show you the ropes
[06:27]  * valorie is not one of these people
[06:27] <valorie> oh good, we need help on the docs as well
[06:27] <leif_> :)
[06:28] <valorie> are you any sort of an expert on the varieties of ways to install?
[06:28] <leif_> is atm part of the dansih loco team
[06:28] <valorie> we have an install portion of the docs that is presently unfinished
[06:29] <leif_> i have learned apt get synapse  single debs that kind
[06:29] <valorie> I'll show you
[06:29] <valorie> sec, let me find it
[06:29] <leif_> :)
[06:30] <valorie> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuDocs/Installation
[06:30] <leif_> ok 
[06:31] <valorie> this section needs content by people who know what the various choices lead to
[06:31] <leif_> cool
[06:35] <leif_> h,,,,
[06:36] <valorie> if you don't, that's ok
[06:36] <valorie> we'll find someone; we just haven't yet
[06:36] <leif_> just trying to long in atm at the wiki
[06:37] <valorie> do you have an ubuntu account?
[06:37] <valorie> I think it's SSO (single sign on)
[06:37] <leif_> yeah the wiki is just slow to long in
[06:38] <leif_> now it works
[06:38] <valorie> yes, it sucks a lot
[06:38] <leif_> :)
[06:38] <valorie> moinmoin, and how slow and old it is
[06:38] <valorie> but for now, it's what we have
[06:39] <valorie> once we're satisfied, we suck it over to http://docs.kubuntu.org
[06:42] <leif_> ok
[06:49] <valorie> we haven't figured out to do good translations yet
[06:50] <leif_> ok
[06:50] <valorie> mediawiki has a great translator's plugin which KDE uses on their three wikis
[06:50] <valorie> kubuntuguide is on mediawiki, and we've suggested joining forces with them
[06:51] <valorie> however, they appear to be satified with installing a google translate plugin to do auto-'translations'
[06:51] <valorie> this is not acceptable to us
[06:52] <valorie> we'd love to be able to ship translations with our docs, but only if they are high-quality
[06:52] <valorie> what is your translation experience, leif?
[06:56] <leif_> a bit on ubuntu apps for danish
[06:57] <valorie> ok, so localization
[06:57] <leif_> yeah
[06:57] <leif_> is still a bit new
[06:57] <valorie> not so much doc translations
[06:57] <valorie> that's awesome
[06:57] <valorie> KDE has a great localization team too
[06:57] <leif_> :)
[06:58] <valorie> and l1on is always a challenge here, juggling both the KDE and the Ubuntu bits
[06:58] <leif_> :)
[06:58] <valorie> so your experience will be welcome 
[06:58] <leif_> great
[06:58] <valorie> not just to the doc team
[06:58] <leif_> and is trying to learn c
[06:58] <leif_> :) way to new
[06:59] <valorie> since it's the weekend, it might be good for you to write to the devel list and introduce yourself, and talk about your experience and interests
[06:59] <leif_> :)
[06:59] <valorie> some coding experience is always welcome as well
[06:59] <leif_> gonna be online most of the day
[06:59] <leif_> eu time
[06:59] <valorie> esp. in packaging, bug triage, etc.
[06:59] <valorie> true, but the list goes to everyone
[07:00] <valorie> not all folks stay in IRC all the time
[07:00] <valorie> I have an account on the KDE bouncer
[07:00] <valorie> so at least I have scrollback
[07:02] <leif_> cool
[07:06] <leif_> that is what i love about linuxx
[07:06] <valorie> what especially?
[07:06] <leif_> all ways a thing to help whit
[07:06] <valorie> oh, so true
[07:07] <valorie> lots of people think it's just coding, but there is so much more
[07:07]  * valorie is not a coder
[07:07] <valorie> not by a long shot
[07:07] <leif_> :)
[07:08] <valorie> but I've found lots of ways to contribute, and I love it
[07:08] <leif_> coool
[07:09] <valorie> I supported my oldest son when he was interested in linux long ago
[07:09] <valorie> and he in turn got me started over ten years ago
[07:09] <leif_> ok
[07:09] <valorie> now he's proud that his mama is active in both kubuntu and KDE
[07:09] <leif_> lol so nice
[07:10] <valorie> yes, I've tried to get him directly involved, but he likes to game in his off-time
[07:10] <valorie> hopefully someday
[07:10] <leif_> :)
[07:11] <leif_> found a great publisher that have a focus on hardcore geek stuff
[07:12] <valorie> there in Denmark?
[07:12] <leif_> no a international
[07:15] <valorie> what sort of books do you buy from them?
[07:15] <leif_> ahh got there online all acses sub
[07:15] <valorie> I see
[07:16] <valorie> I get lots of stuff for my kindle from the library
[07:16] <valorie> or free
[07:16] <valorie> I alternate science and fantasy/sf/fiction
[07:16] <leif_> :)
[07:17] <valorie> oh, we should probably take this to #kubuntu-offtopic
[07:18] <leif_> http://oreilly.com/
[07:18] <leif_> yeah
[07:50] <markey> hmm, Muon has become really unstable and weird here
[07:51] <markey> crashes, then sometimes claims there are updates but then says there aren't any, other times claiming "Your last update was one week ago", when it was yesterday....
[07:51] <markey> etc
[07:51] <valorie> I got caught by it too
[07:52] <valorie> but there was an update a day or two ago
[07:52] <valorie> no problems since, although that is proof of nothing
[07:53] <markey> that said Muon has always been rather unstable. crashes are pretty frequent in general
[07:53] <ScottK> Until this release it's been pretty stable for me.
[07:53] <valorie> I guess I don't use it often enough to have trouble
[07:54] <valorie> I've been trying to use it more frequently, but then it stuck and wouldn't advance
[07:54] <valorie> even apt-get stuck earlier though
[07:55] <markey> right, that is also a common problem: some earlier apt process got stuck, and then Muon says it cannot get a lock on apt
[07:55] <markey> which is of course natural, but to new users it's really bad
[07:55] <markey> they wouldn't know how to react
[07:56] <Mamarok> claydoh: you really set a moderation flag on Basil? What is this chap doing, is he mad?
[07:58] <valorie> talk about a lock, he needs one on his keyboard
[08:01] <valorie> markey: was this after the recent update to muon?
[08:07] <markey> valorie: not sure yet if it got better with the latest update. will keep an eye on it
[08:07] <markey> do you know what was wrong there?
[08:08] <valorie> nope
[08:08] <valorie> jontheechidna never talks to us anymore
[08:08] <markey> how come
[08:08] <valorie> dunno
[08:08] <valorie> maybe we smell bad
[08:08] <valorie> or maybe he's too busy for IRC
[08:09] <valorie> also I noticed that there is at least one other devel now for muon
[08:09] <palasso> I sent him an email about a bug on which I submitted a patch as well but never got back :(
[08:09] <valorie> which seems good
[08:09]  * markey checks git history
[08:09] <valorie> palasso: that sucks
[08:09] <palasso> Yesterday I sent an email on the two developers of Muon
[08:10] <markey> alex pol is also a maintainer?
[08:10] <markey> says the projects page
[08:10] <palasso> But the project page says he's one of the 2 for Muon, he's not on LibQApt
[08:10] <palasso> On the project page of LibQApt
[08:10] <palasso> Which is used by Muon
[08:10] <markey> I see
[08:10] <valorie> hmmm, I know he is involved too, but I swear someone else who I've not heard of, spoke up as well
[08:10] <palasso> The bug I submitted is on LibQApt.
[08:11] <markey> valorie: I heard that Alex Fiestas is going to hack on it
[08:11] <markey> not sure if true
[08:11] <palasso> That's the bug I am referring to https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=325636
[08:11] <valorie> that would be cool
[08:11] <valorie> but I'd like afiestas to fix kscreen first
[08:11] <markey> usability-wise I actually like Muon. it's very simple and nice
[08:12] <palasso> I also like Muon. Especially Muon Package Manager and Muon Discovery
[08:12] <valorie> I use the package manager
[08:12] <palasso> Me too
[08:12] <valorie> it finally weaned me off of synaptic
[08:12] <palasso> Exactly
[08:12] <valorie> which is what I used to install first
[08:12] <markey> Synaptik is powerful but also too complex for most users
[08:12] <markey> and it looks like it came straight from the 80s
[08:12] <palasso> markey: that's why Muon Discovery exists
[08:12] <valorie> yes, ugly as sin
[08:13] <markey> yes
[08:13] <valorie> gtk gah
[08:13] <markey> well, GTK 2 I assume
[08:13] <valorie> whatever
[08:13] <valorie> gtkugly
[08:14] <markey> it looks far more ugly than most other GTK applications I have (Inkscape, Gimp, etc=
[08:14] <markey> )
[08:14] <palasso> But it's almost a month since I submitted the patch and almost a month and a half since I submitted the bug report. I was hoping it would make it for 13.10 but it didn't make it :(
[08:14] <valorie> I hope they soon sit up and take notice, palasso
[08:14] <palasso> Actually if I'm not mistaken Synaptic is switching to gtk 3
[08:14] <valorie> it's causing problems and need fixing
[08:15] <palasso> Well I sent them an email yesterday to both echidnaman and alex pol....
[08:17] <valorie> palasso: do they have a mail list?
[08:17] <valorie> might be better there, if so
[08:19] <palasso> valorie: they're just 2 devs so I just sent an email to both of them. I don't think they have a mailing list, I searched for it in the past.
[08:19] <palasso> I also don't think that they have an IRC channel
[08:20] <valorie> no channel, no
[08:20] <palasso> So according to my findings it's just the bugtracker and their emails...
[08:23] <valorie> well, maybe the forum?
[08:23] <valorie> kde forum, that is
[08:24] <palasso> It's for helping users... Not fixing bugs... Unless I'm wrong
[08:24] <palasso> Otherwise there are lots of places.... e.g. comment on the blog of echidnaman or the kubuntu-devel mailing list but that would be improper
[08:25] <palasso> best place is bugtracker and second best email/IRC (dev channel) etc.
[08:25] <palasso> or mailing list if there would be one
[08:25] <palasso> And the reason I noticed valorie talking about echidnaman is because I added a notification in case that nick pops up so I could contact about the bug....
[08:25] <valorie> heh
[08:26] <valorie> yes, you're right
[08:26] <valorie> last I heard, he was really busy with school and/or a job
[08:26] <valorie> but that was some time ago
[08:27] <palasso> Well I'm happy to hear it was something like that because I was concerned there might be something wrong with his health.
[08:30] <valorie> tbh, I'm not sure
[08:30] <markey> so what I noticed in 10 years of FOSS development is, fluctuation is very natural and most people will only contribute to one project for a limited time
[08:30] <markey> it's not only lack of time, but also a motivation thing
[08:31] <valorie> yes, enthusiasm waxes and wanes like the moon
[08:31] <valorie> and inspiration too
[08:31] <valorie> ideas have to come from somewhere
[08:32] <markey> I would probably never completely stop contributing to Amarok, but I have special motivation as I started it
[08:33] <palasso> Good to hear about it markey. I use it all the time :)
[08:33] <markey> :)
[08:33] <markey> but yeah, most volunteer contributors will stick with a project for about 3 years max, and then move on
[08:34] <palasso> It's the best music manager as I see it and the world of linux is the most competitive arena on music managers.... 
[08:35] <palasso> Those are the good parts in staying on a dev channel. I get to interact with some of the best devs :)
[08:37] <palasso> Anyways regarding Muon, it would be best if echidnaman would appear someday just to make clear what his intentions are. Maybe a blog post. Because I see this list of goals and it's unchanged for about 5 months: http://community.kde.org/Muon/2.1
[08:38] <valorie> yes
[08:39] <palasso> Very intriguing goals I may say. I don't have the proper development experience to participate but I was very excited about backend creation...
[08:41] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:52] <leif_> morning 
[10:18] <debfx> mamarley: any objections to using this as the upstart job? http://pastebin.kde.org/pmtj1zrrm
[11:28] <cortexA9> hello
[11:29] <cortexA9> what about kde 4.12 ?
[11:38] <debfx> ScottK: quasselcore isn't restarted after upgrades. is that really a good idea?
[11:40] <debfx> mamarley: quasselcore needs some maintainer script magic to stop the daemon before upgrades, otherwise upstart doesn't know that quasselcore is running.
[11:57] <mamarley> debfx: Sure, that works.  Do you mean like preinst/postinst stuff?
[12:34] <debfx> yep
[12:54] <mamarley> OK, I will make those.
[13:15] <leif_> afternoon
[13:15] <mamarley> debfx: It looks like it already has preinst and postinst scripts, and the preinst script even terminates quasselcore if it is running, but the postinst script doesn't start it.
[13:27] <mamarley> debfx: I also thought of a potential security reason for this.  When the quasselcore first starts with no user configuration, I believe it will accept any client and allow it to configure the core.
[13:28] <mamarley> Not sure about that though, so let me check...
[13:28] <leif_> hello
[13:31] <mamarley> This is in fact the case, so it seems that starting the core automatically would open up the core to potentially be hacked, especially if the user for some reason did not realize it had been installed.
[14:15] <leif_> greetings
[15:58] <debfx> mamarley: no, the preinst script only stops it when upgrading from << 0.7.3-0ubuntu1. postinst unconditionally starts it.
[16:01] <debfx> if that really is a security issue you'd have to add an ugly ENABLED=false in the defaults file.
[16:07] <mamarley> debfx: I'm sorry, but I fail to see where in postinst it gets started.  I am a bit of a noob at this.
[16:08] <debfx> mamarley: http://pastebin.kde.org/pf3rl9tec#line-76
[16:09] <parad1se> Hi Folks, Iam using kubuntu 12.04.3 LTS with KDE 4.8.5 and Dolphin as file manager. With this combination it is impossile to save/remember samba credantials. I saw there is already a bugreport #1071453 (bugs.lunchpad.net). But Ubuntu 12.04 is still in progress. Can somebody help me? 
[16:09] <mamarley> Oh, "automatically added by dh_installinit"
[16:09] <mamarley> I was looking a the version in the debian/ directory of the source.
[16:10] <debfx> ah yes, that's just the manual part. dh_* commands all kinds of stuff to the maintainer scripts.
[16:10] <debfx> you have to look at the scripts in the binary package.
[16:10] <leif_> greetings
[16:12] <mamarley> So I need to add something manually in preinst to stop quasselcore before the upgrade takes place?
[16:13] <mamarley> Or just shuffle the "invoke-rc.d quasselcore stop" around so it always executes regardless of the version?
[16:15] <debfx> no, you can just add another section that's only executed on upgrades from the current version in the archive and earlier
[16:15] <mamarley> OK, thanks!
[16:16] <mamarley> But wouldn't it be a good idea to always restart on updates, so that the updated version gets started?  Don't most other packages do this?
[16:20] <debfx> imho yes, but you still need to stop it in preinst on upgrades. in postinst upstart isn't able to stop it since it's not tracking the process.
[16:24] <mamarley> I apologize for continually asking these dumb questions, but aren't processes normally stopped for upgrade in their preinst scripts anyway?  That looks like how apache2 does it.
[16:38] <debfx> mamarley: some are stopped, upgraded and then started again. others are just restarted after the upgrade.
[16:39] <debfx> quassel takes the approach of starting the daemon in postinst and never stopping it.
[19:09] <parad1se_> Hi Folks, Iam using kubuntu 12.04.3 LTS with KDE 4.8.5 and Dolphin as file manager. With this combination it is impossiple to save/remember samba credentials. I saw there is already a bugreport #1071453 (bugs.lunchpad.net). But Ubuntu 12.04 is still in progress since 6 months. Can somebody help me? 
[19:21] <Peace-> parad1se_: mmm
[19:21] <Peace-> parad1se_: i dunno i use samba in another way but there is a comment in this page http://nowardev.wordpress.com/2012/04/06/how-to-share-files-with-samba-under-kde-kubuntu-timeout-error-and-ect/
[19:22] <Peace-> parad1se_: see the 3th comment
[19:25] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1249832] Kinfocenter doesn't show my processor info @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1249832 (by moray33)
[20:27] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1249832] Kinfocenter doesn't show my processor info @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1249832 (by moray33)
[20:43] <parad1se_> Peace-: Thanks, but my samba server is a NAS and my client is the workstation.
[20:47] <parad1se_> Is there a deb package that fix the bug/problem?
[20:49] <parad1se_> or how can I patch this myself: https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kde-runtime/repository/revisions/9c0021e98c0c6a808ffa82449d355a64ecef4552/entry/kioslave/smb/kio_smb_auth.cpp ?
[23:14] <apachelogger> valorie: I am not ever away, I am not always here though :P