[00:18] <paultag> copyleft-next - meh
[00:23] <skellat> paultag: Whaddya mean "meh"?
[00:23] <paultag> It doesn't solve many problems, IMHO
[00:23] <paultag> and rebuilding stuff for giggles isn't great
[00:23] <skellat> It is shorter than Apache and reduces GPL 3's language complexity
[00:24] <skellat> It might be a GPL 4 some day
[00:25] <skellat> But for now the idea is to express what needs to be expressed clearly and succinctly
[00:25] <skellat> And offer an alternative to license proliferation
[00:27] <paultag> I mean, you see that it's leading to license proliferation
[00:27] <paultag> it doesn't solve any problems that the GPL doesn't
[00:32] <skellat> Perhaps.  From Bradley Kuhn to Richard Fontana to Engel Nyst to Ted Ts'o to Pam Chestek to Luis Villa there certainly seem to be a bunch of license drafters behind it.  It has been on hold since May 2013 so whether or not the project is rebooted before 2014 is anybody's guess.
[00:34] <paultag> I know them, they're great
[00:35] <paultag> well some of them
[00:35] <paultag> (are great)
[00:35] <paultag> however, I dislike the idea that a wholesale fork is needed
[00:35] <paultag> (and disagree with)
[00:36] <Unit193> Does it permit the use of openssl again? :P
[00:36] <skellat> paultag: I meant to ask you how the tech-ctte discussion of That Canonical Init Manager versus Lennart Poettering's Brainchild is going
[00:37]  * Unit193 perks up.
[00:37] <paultag> skellat: It's going well
[00:37] <paultag> lots of lively discussion
[00:37] <paultag> sec
[00:37] <Unit193> Heh, yeeeeah, way too much for me to read. :P
[00:37]  * belkinsa wakes up
[00:44] <belkinsa> T minus 15 til meeting, yes?
[00:58] <skellat> 2 minutes
[01:00] <skellat> I call the clock as 8 PM
[01:01] <skellat> I, Stephen Michael Kellat, do call this meeting of Ubuntu Ohio to order.  The agenda for tonight's meeting can be found on the wiki at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/MeetingAgenda2013-11 for review.
[01:01] <jenni> [ OhioTeam/MeetingAgenda2013-11 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1h2pzsJ
[01:01] <skellat> Who is in attendance at this point for tonight's meeting?
[01:01] <belkinsa> o/
[01:02]  * drkokandy here
[01:02]  * belkinsa is here for the meeting
[01:02] <skellat> I see dmcalloway_ has popped in and note again that the agenda for tonight's meeting can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/MeetingAgenda2013-11 for review.  I do wonder where Unit193 wandered off to.
[01:02] <jenni> [ OhioTeam/MeetingAgenda2013-11 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1h2pzsJ
[01:03] <dmcalloway_> Duly noted
[01:03] <skellat> Thank you for joining us.
[01:03] <skellat> Okay, let us go ahead to the first item on tonight's agenda:  Leader's Statement
[01:04] <skellat> The Leader's Statement states as follows:
[01:04] <skellat> "An unfortunate incident arose on Friday.  Severe reaction was seen where an employee from the legal staff of Canonical, the corporate sponsor to Ubuntu, sent a cease and desist notice to fixubuntu about their site.  While Mr. Shuttleworth later apologized, several disturbing things arose."
[01:04] <skellat> "There were harmful threats written against Canonical personnel as well as outright wishes to condemn Mr. Shuttleworth to damnation.  While the incident was unfortunate the reaction to it was blown completely out of proportion."
[01:04] <skellat> "The amount of outrage makes the whole incident seem as if an act of atomic warfare had taken place.  While I feel relatively sure that Canonical is not in possession of atomic weapons, it must be remembered that sometimes issues need to be regarded for what they are."
[01:04] <skellat> "Relatively speaking, a minor legal matter was exploded into a far greater amount of drama than would generally be expected.  We live in times full of drama."
[01:04] <skellat> "A community contributor and LoCo team owner, Aaron Toponce, departed the Ubuntu realm this weekend to the point of apparently deleting his account on Launchpad."
[01:04] <skellat> "A contributing developer, Benjamin Kerensa, has been offering ideas about creating additional bureaucratic structures or proposing organizational transformation in response to these events."
[01:05] <skellat> "2013 has been the year of communications problems for Canonical and the Ubuntu realm.  To some we seem to be the most active community but that is mainly because we communicate.  Some even think us to already be Approved or Verified even though we meet tonight to go over the paperwork to gain such status."
[01:05] <skellat> "As a community we must remember that there are many flavors of Ubuntu.  We are flavor neutral.  I encourage creativity and development if you do not like what you find in terms of what is offered."
[01:05] <skellat> "The archive is open to contributions.  If you spin a new flavor we can support such as a community.  If you think you can do things better software-wise and be successful, please take a shot."
[01:05] <skellat> "If you feel that you need to depart, I wish you well.  If you have any responsibilities to be transitioned, please let me know so we can handle that smoothly.  May you find fair winds and calm seas as you sail off to new adventures."
[01:05] <skellat> "For those who choose to stick around, we have a Verification application to consider tonight and need to discuss plans for the future.  Now is the time for us to decide where we are going."
[01:05] <skellat> So ends the statement.
[01:06] <skellat> Discussion on the statement is now open.
[01:08] <dmcalloway_> One question that comes to mind right away is the next Ohio Linux Fest - there was some confusion about whether or not softwar ecould be distributed there. Can we set that event as a goal, with a presence that allows for distributing software ?
[01:09] <belkinsa> May I ask when was this statement made?
[01:09] <skellat> belkinsa: Just written.
[01:09] <belkinsa> By you?
[01:09] <skellat> belkinsa: Yes
[01:09]  * belkinsa facepalms
[01:09] <belkinsa> Sorry, wasn't thinking there.
[01:10] <skellat> belkinsa: It is okay, it has been a long day
[01:10] <skellat> dmcalloway_: Once we clear the Verification application we'll be eligible to request CDs for distribution once again.
[01:10] <dmcalloway_> Okay, great !
[01:10] <skellat> dmcalloway_: The only CDs that will be available at this time are Long Term Support release in a mix of Ubuntu and Ubuntu Server discs
[01:11] <skellat> Since the discs will be for 14.04 it is necessary for us to get this going
[01:11] <belkinsa> Perfect for next years OLF though, right?
[01:11] <skellat> belkinsa: Yes
[01:12] <skellat> drkokandy: Anything you wish to say at this point?
[01:14] <skellat> Okay, does anybody have any questions or objections to the statement I have made as leader?
[01:15] <drkokandy> I guess just that I know it's not an "atomic weapon" attack, but I can honestly understand why this latest incident would be galling to people who have invested significantly in the community. I do see it as an issue and hope that Canonical reconsiders what would even be protected speech in the US against a corporation that individuals don't feel that they are a part of due to contributions, etc
[01:15] <skellat> drkokandy: Noted.
[01:16] <skellat> drkokandy: There are some behind the scenes things going on that frankly Mr. Shuttleworth isn't involved in.
[01:16] <skellat> LoCo Council is getting set to create a Communities Summit separate from UDS
[01:16] <drkokandy> I'm not blaming Mark Shuttleworth personally, I did say Canonical as an entity
[01:17] <belkinsa> Same.
[01:17] <skellat> LoCo Council also has an open action item to get a liaison for issues like this
[01:17] <skellat> I'm actually the one who brought it up at LoCo Council
[01:17] <skellat> About 3 weeks ago
[01:18] <skellat> From what I understand, Canonical really doesn't have anybody responsible for communications
[01:18] <skellat> And **that** is a problem
[01:18] <paultag> the Community team is s'posed to be that POC
[01:18] <drkokandy> agreed
[01:19] <belkinsa> Agreed also.
[01:19] <paultag> LoCo Council has a few other contacts (e.g. shippit team to dispatch swag)
[01:19] <paultag> but in theory the community team should hook LoCo up with things
[01:19] <paultag> I guess they're busy with JuJu right now ;)
[01:19] <skellat> paultag: Not as much anymore.  We're having to re-work things on the LoCo Council side.
[01:20] <skellat> paultag: There is only one person on Jono's staff currently directly responsible LoCo issues now.
[01:20] <paultag> wat
[01:20] <paultag> is it mhall?
[01:20] <skellat> Surprisingly not
[01:20] <skellat> I'm having to pull up my e-mail archive to get the name
[01:21] <skellat> David Planella
[01:21] <paultag> wait what
[01:21] <paultag> I didn't even know he was doing that, I thought he was app team
[01:21] <paultag> anyway
[01:21] <paultag> sorry to derail the meeting
[01:21] <Unit193> paultag: That's the difference, when you were in Ubuntu community directed the project, thus the community did the communication.  Now it's run by Canonical, but they still haven't got a communication person in.
[01:22] <paultag> indeed
[01:22] <skellat> paultag: It is okay.  A bunch of folks at Canonical have jumped between teams as of late such as the Mir tech lead moving to another team.
[01:22] <skellat> As leader, my goal is for us to succeed notwithstanding whatever happens at higher levels.
[01:22] <skellat> That's going to take some work.
[01:22] <skellat> But I think we can do it.
[01:22] <belkinsa> I think we can, also.
[01:23] <skellat> Right now the LoCo Council is dominated with folks from the Americas who are doing quite a lot of outreach.
[01:24] <skellat> And I do believe that I'm on record at each of the vUDS events this year yelling at either Jono Bacon or Rick Spencer over Canonical having trouble with communications.
[01:25] <skellat> UDS is in ten days and I guess I'll need to do that a bit more.
[01:26] <skellat> Okay, do we feel we've exhausted this item on the agenda now?
[01:26] <belkinsa> Yes.
[01:26] <drkokandy> probably
[01:26] <skellat> Lets turn to the second item on tonight's agenda, the draft Verification application to be put before the LoCo Council for consideration.  You'll need the draft open for discussion and it can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/VerificationApplication2013
[01:26] <jenni> [ OhioTeam/VerificationApplication2013 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/GIzKo7
[01:27] <skellat> To explain the process in our case...
[01:27] <skellat> As I am a member of LoCo Council, I have to abstain from voting on our application
[01:27] <skellat> A private tracking bug is open relative to the application
[01:28] <skellat> Unit193 and jrgifford are both subscribed to the bug in addition to myself though I am the Assignee for it
[01:29] <skellat> Though a number of applications have been cleared via e-mail through the bug process, our application must be handled in an open IRC meeting.  The next LoCo Council IRC meeting will be on November 19th.
[01:29] <skellat> Much of the reason for this is to prevent any ideas of collusion from arising
[01:29] <skellat> The Verification applications only really need to cover three data points
[01:29] <skellat> 1.  Do you have a Point of Contact who has signed the Code of Conduct
[01:30] <skellat> 2.  Are you "online services" up and running in accord with Naming Standards
[01:30] <skellat> 3.  Do you show signs of life and plans for the future
[01:31] <skellat> Two applications you can contrast and compare with our draft include Pennsylvania's and California's
[01:31] <skellat> Pennsylvania's: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PennsylvaniaTeam/ReVerificationApplication2013
[01:31] <jenni> [ PennsylvaniaTeam/ReVerificationApplication2013 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/16Rmdok
[01:31] <skellat> California's: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/VerificationApplication2013
[01:31] <jenni> [ CaliforniaTeam/VerificationApplication2013 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1fsyB0z
[01:31] <skellat> Verification applications are not meant to be "Off With Their Heads!" moments but instead times to check in and celebrate successes
[01:32] <skellat> How say you?  How do you wish to consider our draft application tonight?  By sections or in whole?
[01:35] <dmcalloway_> I saw the item stating that there had to be 10 ubutnu members in order to have a council again. How does one become a member, and what are the benefits )if any) ?
[01:35] <skellat> Okay, we're taking it as a whole then.  Paging Unit193 for the item we've been debating back & forth!
[01:36] <belkinsa> First you need to be a Ubuntu member: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[01:36] <jenni> [ Membership - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1fszbeF
[01:36] <belkinsa> Right?
[01:36] <skellat> belkinsa: Yes
[01:36] <skellat> At the top of the application is a list of the Ubuntu Members currently known in Ubuntu Ohio according to the LoCo Council's check script
[01:37] <skellat> Unit193 and I have been debating the appropriate number
[01:37] <skellat> Currently LoCo Council guideilnes **by themselves** do not require the principal Point of Contact for a community to be an Ubuntu Member.  To access the Community Budget administered by Jono Bacon's team, though, you **must** be an Ubuntu Member on record.
[01:38] <dmcalloway_> If I am a memeber of Ubuntu Ohio, am I already an Ubuntu member ?
[01:38] <skellat> dmcalloway_: No
[01:39] <skellat> dmcalloway_: This is where terminology in use sucks
[01:39] <belkinsa> Please see the link that I posted above.
[01:40] <skellat> The members of the Ubuntu Member group vote on the Community Council (Unit193, jrgifford, and I are the only Ohio residents who received ballots), have @ubuntu.com e-mail addresses, can have blogs aggregated on planet.ubuntu.com, and some discounts with a couple vendors
[01:40] <dmcalloway_> I have seen this page before - okay. So I suppose I could (for instance) volunteer to help with documentaion, or learn to manage packages....
[01:40] <skellat> Those are some routes
[01:40] <skellat> There are many ways
[01:40] <belkinsa> Just figure out your skills and how you can use them.
[01:41] <skellat> Service in Kubuntu and Edubuntu or in IRC are routes too
[01:41] <belkinsa> Service in AskUbuntu and the forums are routes also.
[01:41] <dmcalloway_> And they are looking for activity of at least six months, right ?
[01:41] <skellat> dmcalloway_: Generally
[01:42] <skellat> What Unit193 and I have been debating is if 10 is the appropriate number
[01:42] <skellat> It could be higher
[01:42] <skellat> It could be lower
[01:43] <skellat> We could reinstate the High Council by Monday even
[01:43] <belkinsa> We could if it was a lower number but an odd number.
[01:43] <belkinsa> Odd numbers can break ties.
[01:44] <skellat> The High Council would remain 3 members
[01:44] <belkinsa> Can that work for us?
[01:44] <skellat> It is the general model in use.  I think we piloted it originally and even California utilizes it.
[01:44] <drkokandy> Can I ask, why the emphasis on who is an Ubuntu Member? Neither of the Verification Applications from the other LoCos appear to mention how many of their LoCo members are Ubuntu members
[01:45] <skellat> drkokandy: That ended up being discussed in the IRC meetings when those applications were passed
[01:45] <belkinsa> skellat, Ubuntu Women also has a council of 3 elected members, but this time it was a tie and there is four.
[01:46] <skellat> drkokandy: Even applications being handled via bug mail have Ubuntu Members listed in the discussion
[01:46] <skellat> The check script outputs a list of all the LP usernames
[01:46] <drkokandy> And is our number of Ubuntu Members significantly lower than these other two states?
[01:47] <skellat> By 3
[01:47] <skellat> Or so
[01:47] <dmcalloway_> CA reports 241 members on their mailing list, PA has 274
[01:47] <skellat> The Council isn't as much worried about numbers in the Ubuntu Member group per se
[01:47] <skellat> Just that they're there
[01:48] <dmcalloway_> If High Council calls for three members, and only three members are in the group, and one of them leaves/moves/etc., then what happens next ?
[01:49] <skellat> dmcalloway_: Back to sole leader again
[01:49] <skellat> drkokandy: From the Verification guidelines -- "Membership - Are there Ubuntu members on the team? Having an Ubuntu Member in a LoCo is not required; but however, Team Members with Ubuntu Membership shows wider Ubuntu involvement of not only the Ubuntu Member(s) but of the scope and knowledge of the team as a whole."
[01:50] <skellat> With "Community Budget" access being restricted to Ubuntu Members making requests...we may have to change some things around but for now that is how it reads over at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/TeamVerificationGuidelines
[01:50] <jenni> [ LoCoCouncil/TeamVerificationGuidelines - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/GIztBH
[01:50] <drkokandy> if that's the guideline, it sounds like we meet it, right?
[01:50] <skellat> drkokandy: Yep
[01:51] <dmcalloway_> I see - so the overall trend is "encouragement" from Ubuntu for as many formal members to be involved in running and organizing things as possible.
[01:51] <skellat> drkokandy: In some respects it is just me trying to make sure we have enough of a kernel to build from in potential growth
[01:51] <skellat> dmcalloway_: To an extent.  The Free Software Foundation, GNOME, and a few other groups have similar setups.
[01:52] <Unit193> I'm with drkokandy as I've already said, I don't see why the number of "Ubuntu Members" matters, just as the application says, that they are there.
[01:52] <belkinsa> Agreed.
[01:52] <skellat> Then let me put this question: When do we wish to return to having a Council?
[01:54] <belkinsa> Not at this time since we only have three Ubuntu members who are active in the state and we are having a hard time trying to get things done with the low  active members of the LoCo.
[01:54] <belkinsa> low number of active member of the LoCo*
[01:55] <drkokandy> I think when there is sufficient interest, with a goal of returning to a Council arrangement by whatever time elections would typically occur (assuming elections are time-based)
[01:55] <skellat> Right now I have no defined term so I'm trying to specify a trigger for when we get back to things
[01:55] <dmcalloway_> Agreed. There should be at least a few more members, even if only three are needed, just to avoid whipsawing between sole leader and council
[01:56] <belkinsa> Also, of the problem of if one moves to another state, we would have just two and that's an even number.
[01:56] <drkokandy> If I recall correctly, our biggest problem was that no one else put themselves forward as a candidate, right? plus the various reasons the other heads had to leave
[01:56] <dmcalloway_> Say, six members minimum ? That provides one alternate for each council member if only three are required for High Council
[01:57] <skellat> drkokandy: Yeah, that was a big issue at the time.
[01:57] <skellat> Okay.
[01:57] <belkinsa> Six would be fine, even four or five.
[01:57] <belkinsa> Though early next year, we will gain a new Ubuntu member.  So that change early next year.
[01:58] <skellat> For now I think we could go ahead and delete the line about return to a Council.  That's why I wanted to have tonight's discussion because I am not sure we're ready regardless of the goalpost set.
[01:58] <skellat> It still remains my personal goal to get people enfranchised as much as possible to do things like participate in the recently opened vote for Community Council.
[01:58] <drkokandy> I agree with that. It seems that Pennsylvania also does not have a council-based leadership
[01:59] <skellat> drkokandy: Right now the PA LoCo is based mostly in Philadelphia with little presence in the rest of the Commonwealth.  They're working on things though.
[02:00] <skellat> drkokandy: I even offered to drive over the stateline to Erie to talk to groups if their leader felt it would be worthwhile.
[02:00] <skellat> Just mix that with a run to Borders since that is where the closest bookstore is to me these days...
[02:01] <skellat> Okay, the return to Council line is gone.
[02:01] <skellat> How about the rest of the application?  Objections?  Additions?  Proposed revisions?
[02:02] <drkokandy> Should we have more of an introduction? I like how CA states briefly its mission and membership criteria at the beginning of theirs
[02:02] <belkinsa> Agreed.
[02:02] <skellat> Okay
[02:03] <skellat> Who would like to write that?
[02:03] <drkokandy> since I suggested it, I'm happy to try
[02:03] <skellat> Thank you drkokandy
[02:04] <skellat> We're kinda unusual among the US teams that signing the Code of Conduct is insisted upon but it **is** the first step towards enfranchisement in the Ubuntu realm
[02:05] <skellat> Before I forget, here is the Australian team's application that was approved: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/VerificationApplication2013
[02:05] <jenni> [ AustralianTeam/VerificationApplication2013 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1fsCDWz
[02:06] <belkinsa> Oh!  I think we need to add our social media links.
[02:06] <skellat> And here is the Moroccan Team's application which is currently under an active vote: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MoroccanTeam/Re-Approval
[02:06] <jenni> [ MoroccanTeam/Re-Approval - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1fsCMt3
[02:08] <dmcalloway_> WHo is jenni ?
[02:08] <belkinsa> A bot.
[02:08] <skellat> dmcalloway_: jenni is the bot herded by yano that helps show what links are, responds to some weather check commands, and occasionally injects a little inappropriateness into the channel
[02:10] <dmcalloway_> I see - I sort of suspected, but wondered how helpful she was, and how crazy quick she posted the shortenend links
[02:10] <skellat> .wx 44004
[02:10] <jenni> Cover: Overcast ☁, Temp: ?, Dew Point: ?, Pressure: ?mb, Wind: Fresh breeze 20kt (↑) - LFRS 02:00Z
[02:10] <belkinsa> .wx 45069
[02:10] <drkokandy> A propos to nothing but having noticed it on the application, Do we have a sub-discourse on Ubuntu Discourse yet?
[02:10] <jenni> Cover: Overcast ☁, Temp: 11°C, Dew Point: 10°C, Pressure: 1001mb, Wind: Fresh breeze 20kt (↑) - LFOJ 02:00Z
[02:11] <skellat> drkokandy: That's very appropriate
[02:11] <skellat> drkokandy: And the answer is no, I haven't followed up on that yet
[02:11] <belkinsa> I was wondering that too.
[02:11] <dmcalloway_> Awesome !  .wx 43229
[02:11] <dmcalloway_> .wx 43229
[02:11] <jenni> Cover: Overcast ☁, Temp: 53.6°F (12°C), Dew Point: 30.2°F (-1°C), Pressure: 30.03in (1014mb), Wind: Moderate breeze 12kt (↑) - KCMH 01:51Z
[02:11] <drkokandy> .wx 44805
[02:11] <jenni> Cover: Overcast ☁, Temp: ?, Dew Point: ?, Pressure: ?mb, Wind: Fresh breeze 20kt (↑) - LFRS 02:00Z
[02:11] <drkokandy> :-(
[02:11] <Unit193> hah.
[02:11] <skellat> Between the visit with the IRS in Cleveland, running an election, and the fact-finding missions I have been assisting on for the Ashtabula County Metroparks Board I had not gotten back to the sub-discourse yet
[02:12] <skellat> Alrighty
[02:13] <skellat> Before we close out this agenda item, when shall we date the application?  We are on the agenda for November 19th so I would suggest using today's date since we've now discussed it.
[02:13] <belkinsa> Yeah, that would be the best
[02:14] <dmcalloway_> agreed - today should be the date
[02:14] <drkokandy> Sounds good
[02:15] <skellat> Okay
[02:15] <belkinsa> skellat, do you think adding the links to the social media that we have will help us?
[02:15] <skellat> belkinsa: It'll be great
[02:16] <skellat> The point of a Verification application is to show what your community is proud of
[02:16] <skellat> Moving on to our 3rd agenda item tonight: Planning For The Trusty Tahr Release Cycle
[02:16] <skellat> The Trusty Tahr Release Schedule can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
[02:16] <jenni> [ TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1fsDWoq
[02:18] <skellat> Do we want to schedule any events related to milestones during the cycle?  Beta 1 will not be out until February 27th and that's only going to be for opt-in flavors.  Mainline Ubuntu is going without Alpha & Beta milestones during Trusty Tahr except for the Final Beta that all flavors are participating in on March 27th.
[02:19] <skellat> So, for those of us on the Xubuntu side of things we'll have alphas and betas to play with while mainline Ubuntu will instead have "cadence testing" with dailies all throughout.
[02:19] <skellat> I don't know off the top of my head what the opt-ins for alphas and betas were for Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Mythbuntu, Lubuntu, and UbuntuKylin.
[02:20] <dmcalloway_> Would some participation in this cycle help with our application ?
[02:21] <skellat> For yourself for status as Ubuntu Member, sure
[02:21] <skellat> For Ubuntu Ohio...it won't impact us
[02:21] <dmcalloway_> I see... launch party in April ?
[02:22] <belkinsa> Heh, we tried and failed.
[02:22] <skellat> Our community is intended to act as a social homeport while others do technical work and translations like the Italian community
[02:22] <belkinsa> For this release.
[02:23] <skellat> Well, release is going to be on April 17th which will be the week before Easter.
[02:24] <skellat> So that is a tricky weekend
[02:25] <skellat> Some changes had to be made to this schedule so that Alpha 1 didn't get released on the day after Christmas
[02:27] <skellat> This will be an open topic for the time being since we're not yet at Thanksgiving even.
[02:27] <skellat> And to our 4th agenda item: Looking Ahead To The Future
[02:27] <belkinsa> Maybe we could have another meeting about this?
[02:28] <skellat> The question needs to be put: Where do you want us to be going as a community?
[02:29] <skellat> Since we're pretty much near the 90 minute mark, I'm going to leave the question put forward and we're going to carry it over to another meeting.
[02:29] <skellat> And to our 5th agenda item: Any Other Business
[02:29] <drkokandy> I think this would be a great topic for discussion on the mailing list, Discourse, or forums
[02:29] <belkinsa> Yes.
[02:29] <drkokandy> oh sorry
[02:29] <skellat> Is there anything else we need to take care of at this time other than reminding me to get the sub-Discourse going for Ubuntu Ohio?
[02:29] <belkinsa> I will save what I wanted to say for the next meeting and the other medias.
[02:30] <drkokandy> I have 1 (maybe 2) things
[02:30] <skellat> drkokandy: Go for it
[02:30] <drkokandy> I was putting together this first paragraph for the application, and I noticed this is still the mission statement on the wiki:
[02:31] <drkokandy> The OhioTeam focuses on distributing, advertising, and demonstrating Ubuntu in the state of Ohio. Through expansion of our projects, we focus on the areas of schools, businesses, and home users.
[02:31] <skellat> Well, we need to nuke that from orbit
[02:31] <drkokandy> This probably reinforces your idea of talking as a group about where we see ourselves going, but I think we should revisit that mission
[02:32] <drkokandy> Found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam
[02:32] <jenni> [ OhioTeam - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1fsFO0B
[02:32] <drkokandy> let me restate, I think we should take time at some point to try to identify a mission for our LoCo
[02:33] <drkokandy> That was my first item
[02:33] <skellat> I'll gladly fold that into the carried over future planning item
[02:33] <skellat> Second item?
[02:33] <drkokandy> the second item is, I would like to take some time between now and November 19th and try to go through the wiki and identify things like that that might come up as negative marks at our IRC hearing
[02:34] <drkokandy> there are a few pages that are quite outdated, and other things that we should probably just look at in case questions come up
[02:34] <skellat> That works
[02:34] <drkokandy> so I can volunteer to edit things, but since I'm pretty junior, should someone double check my work after I'm done?
[02:34] <skellat> I'll be available
[02:35] <drkokandy> Okay, I can let you know when I've done some changes and you can edit the page again if you think my changes were inappropriate
[02:35] <skellat> Sounds good.
[02:35] <drkokandy> That should be all for me
[02:36] <skellat> Anything else?
[02:36] <skellat> Okay.
[02:36] <dmcalloway_> Just a quick general question from me - has Ubuntu Ohio been larger than 99 people in the past ?
[02:36] <skellat> dmcalloway_: YEs
[02:36] <skellat> s/YEs/Yes/
[02:36] <jenni> skellat meant to say: dmcalloway_: Yes
[02:37] <skellat> Anything else?
[02:37] <dmcalloway_> I see - thanks jenni ! Also, is there anyone in Ubunto Ohio familiar with packaging ?
[02:38] <skellat> dmcalloway_: I've done a little and Unit193 might be someone you could talk to.  paultag is a Debian ftp assistant who could also dispense advice.
[02:39] <belkinsa> Mind if we have follow up meeting so we can talk about the topics after the 19th if possible?
[02:39] <skellat> belkinsa: Feel free to put forward a Doodle poll.  Just keep the week of Thanksgiving in mind while attempting to schedule.
[02:39] <belkinsa> Sure thing.
[02:40] <dmcalloway_> skellat, Unit193, et. al. : Great, I will follow up with you later on
[02:40] <belkinsa> Also, I will add the links to the socials
[02:40] <belkinsa> on the app
[02:40] <skellat> Okay
[02:40] <belkinsa> Thanks for the meeting skellat
[02:40] <skellat> If there is nothing further, this meeting stands adjourned.  A report will be logged on the LoCo Portal once the logging bot has caught up and posted to irclogs.ubuntu.com so I can do links back as LoCo Portal requires.
[02:41] <skellat> I will e-mail a link to the report once I'm done dealing with LoCo Portal.
[02:41] <skellat> Thank you everybody for attending.
[02:41] <belkinsa> Not a problem.
[02:41] <dmcalloway_> Thank you skellat
[02:42] <dmcalloway_> And thank you jenni for the crazy fast link shortening and weather reports !
[02:42] <drkokandy> .wx 44805
[02:42] <jenni> Cover: Overcast ☁, Temp: 14°C, Dew Point: 13°C, Pressure: 1009mb, Condition: Light Rain, Mist, Wind: Fresh breeze 20kt (↑) - LFRS, 02:30Z
[02:42] <drkokandy> oooh, numbers
[02:42] <Unit193> Temp: 53 F (12 C) ~ Overcast ~ Humidity: 55% ~ Observed: Sat 09, 20:52
[02:43] <Unit193> Pretty warm.
[02:43] <drkokandy> not bad
[02:43] <belkinsa> We have a twitter, mailing list, forums, and what else?
[02:43] <drkokandy> G+ still?
[02:43] <belkinsa> Link please.
[02:44] <drkokandy> belkinsa: https://plus.google.com/116070181546687340819/posts
[02:44] <jenni> [ Ubuntu Ohio LoCo - Google+ ] - https://j.mp/1fsHaIA
[02:44] <belkinsa> Thanks
[02:44] <paultag> skellat: and gilbert is a DD too
[02:44] <belkinsa> For some reason I want to work on that logo.
[02:44] <drkokandy> There's a community, too, but it's less active: https://plus.google.com/communities/113576253272216114772
[02:44] <jenni> [ Ubuntu Ohio LoCo - Community - Google+ ] - https://j.mp/1fsHeIm
[02:44] <drkokandy> I say go for it
[02:44] <paultag> skellat: a very active an important one
[02:45] <belkinsa> I will.
[02:45] <paultag> skellat: gilbert maintains wine and chromium and other big important stuff
[02:45] <dmcalloway_> paultag: I see - gilbert is in our group, right ?
[02:45] <paultag> dmcalloway_: very much so
[02:46] <paultag> moreso then me even
[02:46] <paultag> than*
[02:47] <belkinsa> He is based in Cleveland
[02:47] <paultag> Columbus last I knew
[02:47] <paultag> I was in Cleveland
[02:47] <paultag> West si-eeed!
[02:48] <paultag> Actually east side, but I like saying that
[02:48] <belkinsa> I live in Cincinasty.  ;)
[02:48] <belkinsa> Well 30 min north of it
[02:48] <dmcalloway_> I am here in Columbus as well - I think he'd be great to ask certain questions I had about packages in Ubuntu, particularly with the Software center
[02:48] <paultag> Skyline Chili 4 lyfe
[02:49] <belkinsa> Yup
[02:49] <dmcalloway_> Wow - we really are all quite scattered !
[02:49] <paultag> yar
[02:49] <belkinsa> Yeah
[02:49] <paultag> I'm in Boston again now
[02:49] <paultag> but I still idle
[02:49] <belkinsa> That member map doesn't help at all!
[02:49]  * Unit193 thinks it's handy for him that paultag idles. ;)
[02:49] <paultag> :þ
[02:50] <drkokandy> I live in Ashland.
[02:50] <drkokandy> oh well
[02:50] <drkokandy> :-)
[02:50] <paultag> brb, back to OpenPGP-land
[02:51] <belkinsa> But I think I know of one other Ubuntu user in my area but I think he just plays around with it in VB on his mac  and in class!
[02:51] <belkinsa> And he is a biology major
[02:52] <dmcalloway_> To clarify - gilbert = Michael Gilbert ?
[02:52] <belkinsa> No James gifford
[02:52] <belkinsa> https://twitter.com/jrgifford
[02:53] <jenni> [ James Gifford (jrgifford) on Twitter ] - https://j.mp/1fsI5J0
[02:53] <belkinsa> I think
[02:53] <drkokandy> that's how I started belkinsa - just playing around with it - but that led to more
[02:53] <Unit193> drkokandy: Right.
[02:53] <Unit193> dmcalloway_: Right.
[02:53] <Unit193> (wrong d<tab>)
[02:53] <paultag> dmcalloway_: yes
[02:54] <paultag> (PhD)
[02:54] <paultag> Dr. gilbert! :)
[02:54] <Unit193> Now, did we ping gilbert and jrgifford enough?
[02:54] <paultag> Unit193: not enough jrgifford from me
[02:55] <paultag> Unit193: so I'll do a few to jenni
[02:55] <paultag> Erm, jrgifford
[02:55] <Unit193> paultag: I see, we should ping jrgifford a few more times, then.
[02:55] <paultag> indeed, jrgifford will love that
[02:55] <dmcalloway_> Who is Unit193 ?
[02:55] <drkokandy> lol
[02:55] <paultag> dmcalloway_: Unit193 is Unit193
[02:55] <Unit193> Oh, I love how jenni likes thafreak.
[02:56] <dmcalloway_> I see - k
[02:56] <belkinsa> skellat: Added the links to the page, feel free to change it
[03:00] <belkinsa> If anyone cares: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1299
[03:00] <jenni> [ Mark Shuttleworth » Blog Archive » Mistakes made and addressed ] - https://j.mp/1fsIUS5
[03:05] <dmcalloway_> Mark SHuttleworth seems to be a lightning rod of controversy sometimes... :)
[03:05] <belkinsa> Seems to be.
[03:05] <belkinsa> skellat:ping
[03:07] <belkinsa> Before I send out the Doodle poll, which times are okay for most of you and days also?
[03:07] <dmcalloway_> This time slot worked well for me
[03:07] <belkinsa> Day also?
[03:08] <drkokandy> I would put some weekday options as well - I know they didn't work that well this time, but the other two Saturdays on the Doodle didn't work for me last time I think
[03:09] <belkinsa> I did, also I have nothing for the Thanksgiving week.  It's that week before and that week after.
[03:10] <dmcalloway_> I see - for me, mornings are open Monday, as well as Wednesday to Friday. I work 2nd shift, so afternoons and evenings are out for me during the week
[03:10] <belkinsa> Okay
[03:10] <belkinsa> I feel like the weekend days work the best for the most
[03:11] <belkinsa> That includes Friday evenings
[03:17] <paultag> passive tone ftl
[03:17] <belkinsa> Is this good: http://doodle.com/7tqw3hixmi4h4qs4 ?
[03:17] <jenni> [ Doodle: Ohio LoCo Follow Up Meeting ] - https://j.mp/1fsKFPp
[03:17] <paultag> "Mistakes were made"
[03:17] <paultag> rather then "Canonical made a mistake"
[03:17] <paultag> Canonical made a mistake
[03:17] <paultag> oh wow
[03:17] <belkinsa> I know there is an errr.
[03:17] <paultag> nevermind.
[03:17] <paultag> title still sux
[03:18] <belkinsa> Okay, I think I fixed the poll
[03:18] <belkinsa> http://doodle.com/7tqw3hixmi4h4qs4
[03:18] <jenni> [ Doodle: Ohio LoCo Follow Up Meeting ] - https://j.mp/1fsKFPp
[03:24] <belkinsa> Night everyone
[03:24] <drkokandy> night belkinsa
[03:24] <jenni> oh baby
[03:24] <Unit193> Oh dear, now it likes you, drkokandy.
[03:24] <drkokandy> wha jenni?
[03:24] <drkokandy> omg
[03:25] <drkokandy> what did I do?
[03:25] <Unit193> drkokandy: Oh, and everything good over where you are?
[03:25] <drkokandy> yeah, things are good here Unit193, how about over there?
[03:25] <dmcalloway_> Goiodnight belkinsa !
[03:25] <dmcalloway_> Goodnight*
[03:26] <Unit193> I'd say fairly good, just waiting for the snow to hit.
[03:28] <drkokandy> are they saying Monday or Tuesday we could get snow?
[03:28] <Unit193> Tuesday.
[03:30] <drkokandy> gotcha
[03:42] <dmcalloway_> ChanServ
[03:54] <skellat> FWIW, I'm going to have to put LoCo Portal back on the agenda as the meeting report system on it still sucks: http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-ohio/682/detail/
[03:55] <jenni> [ November Business Meeting | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal ] - https://j.mp/1cs04gO
[03:55] <skellat> .wx KHZY
[03:55] <jenni> Cover: Overcast ☁, Temp: 53.6°F (12°C), Dew Point: 35.6°F (2°C), Pressure: 29.91in (1010mb), Wind: Moderate breeze 13kt (↑) - KYNG 03:51Z
[03:55]  * skellat **SLAPS** jenni
[03:56] <skellat> jenni: Again you give me the forecast for Youngstown's Air National Guard base even when I specifically state the ICAO code for the Ashtabula County Airport
[03:56] <jenni> skellat: Nothing is truly random.
[03:57] <skellat> jenni: There's still Mafia activity out that way!
[03:57] <jenni> skellat, What is important to you?
[03:59] <Unit193> jenni: How ya doing, babe?
[03:59] <jenni> Unit193: I'm doing fine, how about you?
[03:59] <Unit193> :)
[03:59] <skellat> At least here's the local weather: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6391748/
[03:59] <jenni> [ Ubuntu Pastebin ] - https://j.mp/1cLpxWU
[04:00] <drkokandy> jenni is mafia
[04:01] <jenni> drkokandy: *is male* *youre female*.
[04:01] <skellat> .nws 44004
[04:01] <drkokandy> jenni: what?
[04:01] <jenni> There are no active watches, warnings or advisories, for Ashtabula, OH.
[04:01] <Unit193> drkokandy: She's hitting on you.
[04:01] <jenni> drkokandy: Implement Code B. Section 189_yllp-59.
[04:01] <drkokandy> again? this is one assertive bot
[04:02] <Unit193> "Tomorrow is forecast to be Much Cooler than today."
[04:02] <drkokandy> brr
[04:03] <skellat> So, is this Dr. Gilbert's dissertation?  http://tx0.org/6y3/
[04:03] <skellat> (Shortlinked because the original linked turned into a smiley when first pasted into the window)
[04:07]  * skellat is hopefully not walking the dog tomorrow whilst being pelted with ice pellets
[04:17] <drkokandy> I just noticed that our IRC meeting is the day after the 7th birthday of the Ubuntu Ohio Launchpad page: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-us-ohio
[04:17] <jenni> [ Ubuntu Ohio in Launchpad ] - https://j.mp/1cLqEpz
[04:17] <drkokandy> I mean, the IRC verification hearing meeting
[04:17] <Unit193> Heh.
[04:18] <Unit193> Met any other linux users locally recently?  For me it's still the people I knew.
[04:20] <drkokandy> No really, but I've been going out to the Akron LUG when I can. Some nice people there, and I've been learning a lot about different applications and technologies, since one or more members presents on a different topic each time.
[04:21] <drkokandy> *Not really
[04:24] <Unit193> Wow.
[04:27] <drkokandy> It's only about 50 minutes each way, but since it's usually dinner plus an hour presentation plus discussion, I figure it's probably worth it since there's still so much I don't know about Linux
[14:33] <andygraybeal> what is a good irc client for th eterminal, i remember irssi being good but that was years ago.
[14:34] <andygraybeal> i plan on using it with tmux.... i'm not used to tmux, i grew up on screen.
[17:34] <Unit193> andygraybeal: Irssi is the best, but some odd people use weechat, like yano.
[17:34] <andygraybeal> thank you
[17:34] <andygraybeal> i looked at weechat, it looks neat!
[17:35] <andygraybeal> and cute
[17:35] <Unit193> (Both are usable, I was kind of kidding, I use irssi. :P )
[17:35] <andygraybeal> :)  thank you
[17:39] <cid420_> I been waiting to be approved on launchpad for about a week now. how long does it take for me to be approved?
[17:41] <yano> WeeChat is better
[17:42] <Unit193> cid420_: Howdy, skellat was trying to say that you were only missing the signing of https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/
[17:42] <jenni> [ Ubuntu Codes of Conduct ] - https://j.mp/17h7KPy
[17:42] <cid420_> ok i will look into it
[17:42] <cid420_> thanks
[17:43] <Unit193> Sure, and welcome.
[17:48] <cid420_> ok I do not understand the question on getting a footprint. where do i get this footprint?
[17:50] <cid420_> ok never i figured it out. since i am running 13.04 where would i find this password and encryption for my OpenPGP
[18:26] <Unit193> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct or http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/videos/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC.ogv might help?
[18:26] <jenni> [ SigningCodeofConduct - Community Ubuntu Documentation ] - https://j.mp/HLjFyS
[18:26] <jenni> https://j.mp/HLjDHn
[18:26] <Unit193> If you have a GPG key, then you will know it, if not, then you will have to create.
[18:51] <Unit193> BiosElement: Well heya!
[18:51] <BiosElement> Hey there, How's it going?
[18:51] <Unit193> Have coffee, but made it weaker than I'd like.
[18:52] <BiosElement> Strong coffee is important >.<
[18:53] <Unit193> Looking again at namecheap for domains. :P   Had an Ohio IRC meeting last night as well, and I read it, flavors we make here are accepted into the Ohio LoCo! :-----D
[18:53] <Unit193> (Kidding.)
[18:55] <BiosElement> Actually just reading over the logs now
[18:55] <Unit193> Darn, can't find the line I mangled to say that...
[18:56] <BiosElement> Soo, is now a bad time to mention I'm testing out Fedora? And that Gnome3 is actually pretty nice? *ducks under table and prepares for siege*
[18:58] <Unit193> I thought you had moved away, was guessing Fedora.
[18:58] <BiosElement> Moving away is too strong a word
[18:58] <BiosElement> Just Unity and my Nvidia drivers have some really weird quirks
[18:59] <Unit193> Heh, I don't/wouldn't like Gnome2, Gnome3, or Unity.  (Cinnamon and MATE too if I have to say it.)
[18:59] <BiosElement> Honestly I'm thinking of giving UbuntuGNOME a shot.
[18:59] <Unit193> Fedora has a newer Gnome, IIRC.
[18:59] <BiosElement> Unity + Gnome3 both have similar but surprisingly different workflows, but I think they're both worth trying out actually.
[18:59] <BiosElement> Yup, by a full point release
[19:01] <Unit193> Meh, I like Xfce, and Openbox isn't so bad at all, 'tis why I made a custom flavor of it.
[19:01] <BiosElement> I like my fancy things ;P
[19:02] <Unit193> Xfce is plenty fancy for me, openbox is the "bare" one.
[19:02] <Unit193> So, no love for KDE anymore?
[19:03] <Unit193> (http://unit193.ninth.su/openbox/ couple of older screenshots from me live system. :D)
[19:03] <jenni> [ Index of /openbox/ ] - https://j.mp/1dWuGbI
[19:03] <BiosElement> Nope, no love for KDE anymore. Not a fan of their kitchen-sink direction
[19:04] <BiosElement> Quite nice
[19:07] <BiosElement> "Debian started arguing about whether it should remove all references to the distro-that-shall-not-be-named but then decided to argue about whether it should enforce its own trademarks which lead to an argument about…"
[19:07] <BiosElement> I think I found my favorite line ever
[19:07] <Unit193> Hrm, and once it's actually done, LXQT isn't your thing?
[19:08] <paultag> uh
[19:08] <paultag> I found it insulting
[19:08] <paultag> it's the tone
[19:08] <paultag> marks really needs to talk with his doctor about all this pent up debian distaste
[19:08] <Unit193> I'd be happy if Ubuntu pushed good stuff back up, which it appears to actually do, at least somewhat to me.
[19:09] <BiosElement> It seems pretty fair to me. It's an overreaction and disturbing to be honest. One issue like this shouldn't be causing everyone to freak out.
[19:09] <paultag> BiosElement: did you even *read* the email
[19:09] <paultag> BiosElement: at the bottom ian says it was a *joke*
[19:09] <paultag> jesus
[19:09] <BiosElement> Yep, I've read the full email and that really doesn't matter in terms of the law, although it probably should.
[19:09] <paultag> wat
[19:09] <paultag> ok, back to real work for me
[19:10] <skellat> I was going to point this out that showed up on planet.u.c: http://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/2013/11/09/canonical-and-the-cease-and-desist-letter/
[19:10] <jenni> [ Canonical and the Cease and Desist Letter | Free Trader Beowulf ] - https://j.mp/1dWvm0F
[19:10] <Unit193> cid420_: Did you get it?
[19:11] <BiosElement> Yeah, I saw Jono's response and some of the other comments and stopped reading. It was honestly just depressing.
[19:25] <Unit193> But... Dang.
[19:33] <cid420_> Unit193, what tool should I use to create the GPG key, because the help was talking about the 10.04 and i have 13.04 kubuntu.
[19:36] <dzho> Exhibit A: http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/489/how-would-ubuntu-bug-1-be-fixed-if-ask-ubuntu-uses-a-windows-platform
[19:36] <jenni> [ How would Ubuntu Bug #1 be fixed if Ask Ubuntu uses a Windows Platform? - Ask Ubuntu Meta ] - https://j.mp/1dWxNjU
[19:36] <dzho> Exhibit B: https://micahflee.com/2013/11/canonical-shouldnt-abuse-trademark-law-to-silence-critics-of-its-privacy-decisions/
[19:36] <jenni> [ Canonical shouldn’t abuse trademark law to silence critics of its privacy decisions | micah.f.lee ] - https://j.mp/1dWxQwf
[19:38] <dzho> Either Canonical is careful about it's trademarks, and condones the use of Microsoft software via askubuntu despite Bug #1, or
[19:38] <dzho> it is generous about its trademarkes, but is using them to silence critics like Lee.
[19:39] <dzho> but then, we know all about this, given a) that "Ubuntu" would always be free, with no qualifications yet, b) Ubuntu One.
[19:39] <jrgifford> Unit193: paultag argh. :p
[19:39] <Unit193> paultag be gone. :(
[19:39] <Unit193> jrgifford: Howdy.
[19:40] <dzho> I think people are willing to cut a company trying to make a go of it some slack.
[19:40] <jrgifford> I go away for a weekend, and then I come back to this. ;p
[19:58] <cid420> ok its not taking my fingerprint whne I import it
[20:11] <cid420> No offence it seems when i ask for help i get ignored, is it because i am a newbie?
[20:17] <BiosElement> cid420, Generally people don't answer if they don't have any idea. It's nothing to do with you being new. You're better off asking in #ubuntu, but if it's just a gpg key guide there's one here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[20:17] <jenni> [ GnuPrivacyGuardHowto - Community Ubuntu Documentation ] - https://j.mp/eVZdTA
[20:18] <Unit193> cid420: I've not done it for a while, I use my gpg key but I don't do much.
[20:18] <Unit193> cid420: What's your fingerprint?  Did you upload it to a keyserver?
[22:50] <dzho> cid420: sorry.  what are you trying to do with your fingerprint, again?
[22:53] <belkinsa> If you are doing it the GUI way, the instuctions are outdated.
[22:53] <belkinsa> Or it seems.