| ShapeShifter499 | has #ubuntu-za and #ubuntu-zw merged? | 01:28 |
|---|---|---|
| Kilos | morning all | 06:31 |
| theblazehen | hi Kilos | 06:32 |
| Kilos | ohi theblazehen hows the exams going | 06:32 |
| theblazehen | Kilos, starting on monday :) Been studying for over a month now | 06:33 |
| Kilos | good man | 06:33 |
| theblazehen | My friends are idiots though :/ only started last week :/ | 06:33 |
| Kilos | eish | 06:34 |
| theblazehen | Yeah. Been telling them to study for the last 5 weeks or so | 06:34 |
| Kilos | well good for you. | 06:34 |
| theblazehen | Yep :) Think I will do well this time | 06:35 |
| theblazehen | Will probably be on and off for a little while, trying to get iptables working with pxe boot and a squid proxy | 06:36 |
| Kilos | ok good luck with the exams lad | 06:38 |
| theblazehen | ty Kilos | 06:38 |
| Kilos | yo spinza | 08:06 |
| spinza | hi | 08:06 |
| theblazehen | aarghh.. I HATE iptables! | 08:07 |
| Kilos | lol exciting hey | 08:15 |
| Kilos | i needed lotsa help with iptables to share internet over 3g | 08:15 |
| Kilos | theblazehen_, what OS you using? | 08:16 |
| Kilos | oh he is gone | 08:17 |
| Kilos | hmm... | 08:17 |
| === Kilos- is now known as Kilos | ||
| === Kilos- is now known as Kilos | ||
| === spinza_ is now known as spinza | ||
| spinza | hi guys upgrading to 13.10 | 10:50 |
| spinza | came up to a prompt that asks me whether to keep a certain config file | 10:50 |
| spinza | selected to view the differences | 10:50 |
| spinza | and now I don't know how to get back... | 10:50 |
| spinza | ok answered my own question :q | 10:52 |
| Kilos | hehe | 10:52 |
| spinza | didn't make any sense the differences on /etc/gnome/defaults.list | 10:53 |
| spinza | should I keep or install the package maintainers version? | 10:53 |
| Kilos | it will work both ways | 10:54 |
| Kilos | but maybe the packages maintainer is better | 10:54 |
| spinza | ok done | 10:54 |
| spinza | in "setting up" phase how long to go? | 10:56 |
| Kilos | are you letting it upgrade at the same time? | 10:57 |
| Kilos | that takes longer | 10:57 |
| Kilos | as in its all coming from the internet hey? | 10:57 |
| Kilos | then it depends on the speed of your connection | 10:58 |
| Kilos | many megs to upgrade | 10:59 |
| spinza | i think it downloaded first | 11:00 |
| spinza | now it's setting up packages | 11:00 |
| spinza | used the terminal to do the upgrade | 11:02 |
| Kilos | ah ok then it downloaded lots | 11:03 |
| spinza | it keeps asking for different config files for some things i installed (and edited) keeping those | 11:04 |
| Kilos | ok | 11:05 |
| Kilos | hi kbmonkey | 11:05 |
| kbmonkey | hello | 11:06 |
| spinza | removing packages now. Must be the end? | 11:19 |
| Kilos | yeah getting close | 11:20 |
| nlsthzn | Goeie more Suid Afrika | 11:20 |
| Kilos | hi there neelsie | 11:20 |
| nlsthzn | how are you uncle Kilos ? | 11:21 |
| Kilos | bad head day but ok otherwise ty and you nlsthzn ? | 11:21 |
| nlsthzn | :/ sorry to hear uncle Kilos ... best not be infront of the PC then ... I am OK, went and watched the game which was "meh" and had to much rum ... human again now at least :p | 11:22 |
| Kilos | hahaha was a bit disappointing game that | 11:23 |
| nlsthzn | what is it with our games and the refs?! | 11:23 |
| Kilos | refs suck especially those | 11:24 |
| Kilos | tara is revving about that one | 11:24 |
| Kilos | they need a refs accademy i think to standardise | 11:25 |
| nlsthzn | could help, I dunno :p | 11:25 |
| Kilos | not let each one see what he wants to | 11:25 |
| Kilos | or the tmo needs top power to judge | 11:26 |
| nlsthzn | technology can't remove biased unfortunately :p | 11:26 |
| Kilos | tmo should be able to stop the game | 11:26 |
| nlsthzn | and fire the ref :p | 11:27 |
| Kilos | lol ya | 11:27 |
| charl | hi | 11:37 |
| charl | Maaz: coffee on | 11:37 |
| * Maaz starts grinding coffee | 11:37 | |
| nlsthzn | alo | 11:37 |
| Kilos | hi charl | 11:37 |
| charl | hi nlsthzn | 11:37 |
| charl | hi Kilos | 11:37 |
| charl | has anyone taken a look at cgit http://git.zx2c4.com/cgit/ | 11:38 |
| charl | it's interesting to me that when i google for linux-related tools i often see links to arch linux's wiki | 11:38 |
| charl | for example now i get https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Cgit as the second result | 11:38 |
| charl | when i google for cgit, i mean | 11:38 |
| nlsthzn | arch linux has most probably got the best wiki of any distro | 11:38 |
| charl | yeah, it's such a pity that ubuntu's wiki is often full of incomplete or outdated info | 11:39 |
| charl | arch seems to have gotten the community thing right, where ubuntu totally failed | 11:39 |
| charl | even debian seems to have a much better wiki than ubuntu | 11:39 |
| nlsthzn | wiki's are maintained by the community and the community is failing at keeping the wiki up to date | 11:39 |
| charl | i sometimes reference debian's wiki for ubuntu related matters | 11:40 |
| nlsthzn | then again if you look at the target audiences it can be expected... | 11:40 |
| charl | that's logical, but the question is why | 11:40 |
| charl | target audience? that ubuntu is targeted at noobs, you mean? | 11:40 |
| nlsthzn | majority of people that choose ubuntu just want an OS that works (which it mostly does) | 11:40 |
| nlsthzn | they don't want to give back time and effort etc. | 11:40 |
| Maaz | Coffee's ready for charl! | 11:41 |
| nlsthzn | arch you need to invest time and effort just to get going, so you are more invested from the get go... | 11:41 |
| charl | Maaz: thanks | 11:41 |
| Maaz | charl: Sure | 11:41 |
| nlsthzn | well that is the way I see it at the moment :Lp | 11:41 |
| charl | but even debian has a relatively good wiki, why is ubuntu failing so miserably | 11:42 |
| charl | arch's install process is a joke, it's worse than going back to slackware times | 11:42 |
| Kilos | how much wiki updating have you done charl | 11:42 |
| charl | but i like seeing distros like manjaro being based on arch | 11:43 |
| Kilos | clever peeps gotta do that so there are errors | 11:43 |
| Kilos | no errors | 11:43 |
| charl | Kilos: that's a good point actually, i haven't contributed to the wiki either | 11:43 |
| * nlsthzn hates wiki's grrrr | 11:44 | |
| Kilos | lol | 11:44 |
| charl | nlsthzn: why? | 11:44 |
| charl | i thought it is one of the best way to gather info | 11:44 |
| Kilos | aw looks like spins upgrade isnt working | 11:44 |
| nlsthzn | using is ok, editing is ugh | 11:44 |
| charl | i have used a variety of wikis, docuwiki, mediawiki, i can't say the editing part is so bad | 11:45 |
| charl | even trac has a built-in wiki | 11:45 |
| Kilos | it has to be done properly otherwise it misleads peeps that dont know | 11:45 |
| charl | there should be an ubuntu documentation project that organises volunteers | 11:45 |
| nlsthzn | I don't like the mark-up or what ever you call it to format things... PITA imo | 11:45 |
| charl | people who document, people who verify and check, people who look at language etc | 11:46 |
| charl | nlsthzn: what i don't like is every wiki having a different format, they should standardise on something like markdown | 11:46 |
| charl | but i don't think the formatting is so bad, as long as it is used consistently | 11:46 |
| Kilos | most clever buntu peeps dont have time for stuff like that | 11:46 |
| nlsthzn | there has been many such surges done but they never seem to sustain because you have a few people doing all the work and then they get busy and nobody picks up the slack... | 11:46 |
| charl | well debian and arch seems to be getting it right | 11:47 |
| charl | so clearly it _can_ work | 11:47 |
| charl | the question is, why isn't it working in ubuntu's case | 11:47 |
| charl | that it can or can't work is not in question, clearly it can | 11:47 |
| Kilos | you have the answer man | 11:47 |
| nlsthzn | scroll up :p | 11:47 |
| Kilos | do a page a day and see how quick it catches up | 11:48 |
| charl | i'll have to do something about it next time i'm busy with something | 11:50 |
| charl | i can't just randomly start editing wiki pages | 11:51 |
| charl | i'm just going to make it worse | 11:51 |
| Kilos | lol thats why i say clever peeps | 11:51 |
| Kilos | wiki is read only for me | 11:51 |
| charl | talking about contributing, i completely left my e2ee project laying in the ditch | 11:52 |
| charl | i'm serious about taking this further but i literally have not received any feedback or comments on it yet | 11:52 |
| Kilos | again | 11:52 |
| Kilos | thats the prob man no one has time | 11:53 |
| Kilos | try the pro tonight for feedback | 11:53 |
| Kilos | he use to be busy here most days but he too is rare now | 11:53 |
| charl | it's not time that is the problem, it's that i just don't want to make it yet another one man project | 11:53 |
| charl | but i do have time enough to throw into this | 11:53 |
| Kilos | ya but you need feedback from peeps in the know of whats needed | 11:54 |
| charl | exactly | 11:54 |
| Kilos | useless for me to comment | 11:54 |
| charl | not necessarily, you might have some good ideas | 11:54 |
| Kilos | if you dont mind ingorant suggestions then ill help you | 11:54 |
| charl | all suggestions are good, there are no ignorant suggestions :P | 11:55 |
| Kilos | 90% of what you talk about there is greek to me | 11:55 |
| charl | it was a quick draft-up so that fault might be with me | 11:55 |
| Kilos | you want to make a secure irc chat thingie right? | 11:56 |
| charl | you could call it that yes | 11:56 |
| charl | although it was supposed to be a protocol for end-to-end encrypted communication, it doesn't matter what's in it | 11:56 |
| Kilos | now what i dont understand is, will it still use freenode etc? | 11:56 |
| charl | it could be im, voip, video conference, file sharing, etc | 11:56 |
| Kilos | wb spinza whats news | 11:57 |
| charl | no it has nothing to do with freenode, freenode is an irc network | 11:57 |
| charl | you could implement something similar to irc on top of it, but that wouldn't be the idea | 11:57 |
| Kilos | so it will be a stand alone thing | 11:57 |
| charl | irc is a fairly public medium, no real need to secure it | 11:57 |
| charl | well, the use case is more along the lines of xmpp than irc | 11:57 |
| Kilos | but who will use it | 11:58 |
| charl | the only problems with xmpp is that 1) you have data rentention on the server and 2) it has no automatic fail-over | 11:58 |
| charl | people who do, just like irc or xmpp or anything else | 11:58 |
| charl | who would use irc or xmpp or email | 11:58 |
| Kilos | no man dodo | 11:59 |
| Kilos | everyone uses irc | 11:59 |
| charl | not everyone, a bunch of people who are fairly clued up (people like us) | 11:59 |
| Kilos | who will they connect to on a new thing | 11:59 |
| charl | the noobs use facebook and twitter | 11:59 |
| charl | only other people using clients that run the same protocol | 11:59 |
| Kilos | hahaha the pro uses twitter | 11:59 |
| charl | the same as any other service, who started using facebook at the start, also only a few people | 12:00 |
| Kilos | i mean charl `you make this thing right | 12:00 |
| charl | i would use it, and i know a few other people who would also, and that's enough for a start | 12:00 |
| Kilos | then no one knows about it so it just lies there | 12:00 |
| Trixar_za | Then why not use xmpp? | 12:00 |
| charl | that would be really bad | 12:00 |
| charl | Trixar_za: i gave two reasons above | 12:01 |
| Kilos | hi Trixar_za | 12:01 |
| charl | so the idea would be to get the word out | 12:01 |
| Trixar_za | There's a nice server written in lua called Prosody IM | 12:01 |
| Kilos | and for that use fb and twitter to get the word out | 12:01 |
| charl | Trixar_za: i run it, so i know about it | 12:01 |
| charl | Trixar_za: that's what's running on charl.eu right now | 12:01 |
| charl | you can actually add me as a contact if you want, charl at charl dot eu | 12:03 |
| charl | both email and xmpp | 12:03 |
| Kilos | i gotta go lie down a while | 12:04 |
| Kilos | wbb | 12:04 |
| charl | enjoy Kilos ! | 12:04 |
| Kilos | no man no one enjoys an exploding head | 12:05 |
| Kilos | hehe | 12:05 |
| Kilos | like saying enjoy your migraine | 12:05 |
| Trixar_za | I ran Prosody once and it was pretty good for my needs. Not exactly IRC though. Even the creator of IRC saw it going in a different direction rather than stagnating | 12:06 |
| Trixar_za | Interestingly, it did include secure, private and p2p communication | 12:07 |
| Trixar_za | It also includes meta-networking. Which is semi-taboo on IRC and which I helped make worse with my Janus improvements :P | 12:07 |
| charl | Kilos: oh sorry man :( | 12:08 |
| charl | get better soon! | 12:08 |
| Kilos | np ty | 12:09 |
| charl | Trixar_za: i'm not sure i understand, are you talking about xmpp now? you can encrypt messages that goes over xmpp yes | 12:10 |
| charl | Trixar_za: you have two forms of encryption that i saw implemented: openpgp and otr | 12:10 |
| Trixar_za | No, I mean IRC | 12:11 |
| Trixar_za | http://www.irc-junkie.org/2012-04-23/interview-with-jarkko-oikarinen-the-inventor-of-irc/ | 12:11 |
| Trixar_za | :P | 12:11 |
| charl | Trixar_za: otr is the most common form although i've experimented with openpgp in centerim and it works brilliantly | 12:11 |
| charl | reading | 12:11 |
| Trixar_za | It's funny because Jarkko writes servers now and most of them has to do with some cryptography implementation | 12:12 |
| charl | whow i really like the idea of network of networks | 12:13 |
| charl | it shouldn't be too difficult to implement cryptography on top of irc | 12:15 |
| charl | just pass around openpgp encrypted messages in private conversations | 12:15 |
| charl | in a public chatroom (like this) it would be much more difficult though, but also probably unnnecessary | 12:15 |
| Trixar_za | The question is how much do you leave to the client and how much do you leave to the server | 12:16 |
| charl | i would say leave the absolute minimum to the server | 12:16 |
| charl | the client runs on your own machine and is under your full control | 12:17 |
| charl | the server could be anything, it should be assumed to be non-trusted | 12:17 |
| charl | that was my whole inspiration behind my idea too | 12:17 |
| charl | just use the server as a dumb router to route messages around | 12:17 |
| charl | just use it to a) hide your ip b) get messages without needing to work around nat routing in ipv4 | 12:18 |
| charl | and dynamic ip addresses etc, otherwise you need a central directory to look up ip addresses in any case | 12:18 |
| Trixar_za | Essentially, IRCd are just dumb routers | 12:18 |
| charl | works extremely well for unsecure conversation | 12:19 |
| charl | the one issue is you need to "own" some type of identity | 12:19 |
| charl | on irc that is your nickname, that means you need to register it and authenticate with a password | 12:20 |
| charl | what i wanted to do is allow a user to authenticate using ppk, a bit similar as with ssh | 12:21 |
| charl | except with ssh you also have a set of fixed identities and associated public keys on the server | 12:21 |
| charl | what i wanted to do is let a client say "here, i have this public key, and i can prove that i am the owner using my private key" | 12:21 |
| charl | challenge-response type scenario | 12:22 |
| charl | then you proved your identity and the server knows that you are who you claim to be, nothing needs to be stored on the server | 12:22 |
| charl | you could literally boot up a server from a read-only device | 12:22 |
| charl | you could boot up a whole cluster using pxe | 12:23 |
| theblazehen | charl, Got my pc pxe booting :) | 12:23 |
| charl | if you want to roll out updates, do them centrally and reboot all the servers one by one | 12:23 |
| charl | nothing new about it, they used to do it with tuxlabs too | 12:23 |
| charl | the kids break the software, just reboot and everything goes back to its original setup | 12:24 |
| charl | do all updates centrally, etc, very nice for an african school with poor internet | 12:24 |
| charl | oh nice, janus looks interesting, even created by a dutch guy | 12:26 |
| Trixar_za | charl: Funny you say that about public keys... because TS6 servers can use that to authenticate opers and I believe Atheme can use it to authenticate nicknames | 12:26 |
| Trixar_za | daniel is a pretty good C++ coder. It shows in his code. I heard he taught himself perl mostly by using perldoc | 12:27 |
| charl | well i used to do that with ssh literally for 8+ years and if you use github you do it in a similar way | 12:27 |
| charl | so nothing new about it at all | 12:27 |
| charl | sounds like my type of person | 12:28 |
| Trixar_za | Yeah, I'm not exactly sure how it works since I haven't used it, but one of my opers do | 12:28 |
| Trixar_za | does* | 12:29 |
| Trixar_za | I think the limitation requires that you connect using ssl though | 12:29 |
| charl | makes sense | 12:31 |
| charl | ssl does support client certificate authentication | 12:31 |
| charl | or tls now i hope | 12:31 |
| Trixar_za | They've added gnutls support to several IRCds as an alternative to openssl | 12:33 |
| Trixar_za | licensing issues like usual | 12:33 |
| charl | hmmm | 12:35 |
| nlsthzn | http://www.thefanclub.co.za/how-to/ubuntu-google-drive-client-grive-and-grive-tools | 12:44 |
| nlsthzn | nice to see ZA contributing some nifty open source things :) | 12:45 |
| charl | i used to work for the fsiu - the free software innovation unit - in cape town | 12:52 |
| charl | we used to do a lot of open source related work in africa | 12:52 |
| charl | we even went to oscon in 2010 | 12:52 |
| charl | paul scott (my manager) is an oscon veteran | 12:52 |
| Trixar_za | Working in open source development would rock | 13:08 |
| Kilos | evening all | 18:07 |
| nlsthzn | night | 18:08 |
| Kilos | night nlsthzn | 18:08 |
| Kilos | sleep tight | 18:08 |
| * nlsthzn not going to sleep yet :p initially thought uncle Kilos was going off-line :p | 18:09 | |
| Kilos | i just came back | 18:09 |
| Kilos | :p yourself | 18:10 |
| Kilos | pity xchat dont show them so i can see who does what | 18:11 |
| Kilos | some peeps stick tongues out | 18:12 |
| nlsthzn | :p is tongue sticking out | 18:15 |
| Kilos | hahaha you see | 18:15 |
| Kilos | and :P | 18:16 |
| Kilos | hi theblazehen | 18:17 |
| theblazehen | hi Kilos | 18:19 |
| Kilos | lo inetpro het jy darem reen gekry | 18:27 |
| Kilos | ons het 3 mm | 18:27 |
| Kilos | spinza_, is your 13.10 working good? | 18:28 |
| Kilos | night all. sleep tight | 19:03 |
| inetpro | good evening | 19:33 |
| inetpro | Maaz: tell Kilos we had a very welcome 4mm to cool us down again | 19:34 |
| Maaz | inetpro: Got it, I'll tell Kilos on freenode | 19:34 |
| superfly | hi inetpro | 19:36 |
| inetpro | superfly: how's the weather down in the cape? | 19:54 |
| spinza | thanks for checking up kilos. everything was fine except my mariadb got uninstalled. weird thing with mysql but sorted it out quickly. and didn't lose my db | 21:08 |
| spinza | just wich my adsl was as good | 21:08 |
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