[01:28] has #ubuntu-za and #ubuntu-zw merged? [06:31] morning all [06:32] hi Kilos [06:32] ohi theblazehen hows the exams going [06:33] Kilos, starting on monday :) Been studying for over a month now [06:33] good man [06:33] My friends are idiots though :/ only started last week :/ [06:34] eish [06:34] Yeah. Been telling them to study for the last 5 weeks or so [06:34] well good for you. [06:35] Yep :) Think I will do well this time [06:36] Will probably be on and off for a little while, trying to get iptables working with pxe boot and a squid proxy [06:38] ok good luck with the exams lad [06:38] ty Kilos [08:06] yo spinza [08:06] hi [08:07] aarghh.. I HATE iptables! [08:15] lol exciting hey [08:15] i needed lotsa help with iptables to share internet over 3g [08:16] theblazehen_, what OS you using? [08:17] oh he is gone [08:17] hmm... === Kilos- is now known as Kilos === Kilos- is now known as Kilos === spinza_ is now known as spinza [10:50] hi guys upgrading to 13.10 [10:50] came up to a prompt that asks me whether to keep a certain config file [10:50] selected to view the differences [10:50] and now I don't know how to get back... [10:52] ok answered my own question :q [10:52] hehe [10:53] didn't make any sense the differences on /etc/gnome/defaults.list [10:53] should I keep or install the package maintainers version? [10:54] it will work both ways [10:54] but maybe the packages maintainer is better [10:54] ok done [10:56] in "setting up" phase how long to go? [10:57] are you letting it upgrade at the same time? [10:57] that takes longer [10:57] as in its all coming from the internet hey? [10:58] then it depends on the speed of your connection [10:59] many megs to upgrade [11:00] i think it downloaded first [11:00] now it's setting up packages [11:02] used the terminal to do the upgrade [11:03] ah ok then it downloaded lots [11:04] it keeps asking for different config files for some things i installed (and edited) keeping those [11:05] ok [11:05] hi kbmonkey [11:06] hello [11:19] removing packages now. Must be the end? [11:20] yeah getting close [11:20] Goeie more Suid Afrika [11:20] hi there neelsie [11:21] how are you uncle Kilos ? [11:21] bad head day but ok otherwise ty and you nlsthzn ? [11:22] :/ sorry to hear uncle Kilos ... best not be infront of the PC then ... I am OK, went and watched the game which was "meh" and had to much rum ... human again now at least :p [11:23] hahaha was a bit disappointing game that [11:23] what is it with our games and the refs?! [11:24] refs suck especially those [11:24] tara is revving about that one [11:25] they need a refs accademy i think to standardise [11:25] could help, I dunno :p [11:25] not let each one see what he wants to [11:26] or the tmo needs top power to judge [11:26] technology can't remove biased unfortunately :p [11:26] tmo should be able to stop the game [11:27] and fire the ref :p [11:27] lol ya [11:37] hi [11:37] Maaz: coffee on [11:37] * Maaz starts grinding coffee [11:37] alo [11:37] hi charl [11:37] hi nlsthzn [11:37] hi Kilos [11:38] has anyone taken a look at cgit http://git.zx2c4.com/cgit/ [11:38] it's interesting to me that when i google for linux-related tools i often see links to arch linux's wiki [11:38] for example now i get https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Cgit as the second result [11:38] when i google for cgit, i mean [11:38] arch linux has most probably got the best wiki of any distro [11:39] yeah, it's such a pity that ubuntu's wiki is often full of incomplete or outdated info [11:39] arch seems to have gotten the community thing right, where ubuntu totally failed [11:39] even debian seems to have a much better wiki than ubuntu [11:39] wiki's are maintained by the community and the community is failing at keeping the wiki up to date [11:40] i sometimes reference debian's wiki for ubuntu related matters [11:40] then again if you look at the target audiences it can be expected... [11:40] that's logical, but the question is why [11:40] target audience? that ubuntu is targeted at noobs, you mean? [11:40] majority of people that choose ubuntu just want an OS that works (which it mostly does) [11:40] they don't want to give back time and effort etc. [11:41] Coffee's ready for charl! [11:41] arch you need to invest time and effort just to get going, so you are more invested from the get go... [11:41] Maaz: thanks [11:41] charl: Sure [11:41] well that is the way I see it at the moment :Lp [11:42] but even debian has a relatively good wiki, why is ubuntu failing so miserably [11:42] arch's install process is a joke, it's worse than going back to slackware times [11:42] how much wiki updating have you done charl [11:43] but i like seeing distros like manjaro being based on arch [11:43] clever peeps gotta do that so there are errors [11:43] no errors [11:43] Kilos: that's a good point actually, i haven't contributed to the wiki either [11:44] * nlsthzn hates wiki's grrrr [11:44] lol [11:44] nlsthzn: why? [11:44] i thought it is one of the best way to gather info [11:44] aw looks like spins upgrade isnt working [11:44] using is ok, editing is ugh [11:45] i have used a variety of wikis, docuwiki, mediawiki, i can't say the editing part is so bad [11:45] even trac has a built-in wiki [11:45] it has to be done properly otherwise it misleads peeps that dont know [11:45] there should be an ubuntu documentation project that organises volunteers [11:45] I don't like the mark-up or what ever you call it to format things... PITA imo [11:46] people who document, people who verify and check, people who look at language etc [11:46] nlsthzn: what i don't like is every wiki having a different format, they should standardise on something like markdown [11:46] but i don't think the formatting is so bad, as long as it is used consistently [11:46] most clever buntu peeps dont have time for stuff like that [11:46] there has been many such surges done but they never seem to sustain because you have a few people doing all the work and then they get busy and nobody picks up the slack... [11:47] well debian and arch seems to be getting it right [11:47] so clearly it _can_ work [11:47] the question is, why isn't it working in ubuntu's case [11:47] that it can or can't work is not in question, clearly it can [11:47] you have the answer man [11:47] scroll up :p [11:48] do a page a day and see how quick it catches up [11:50] i'll have to do something about it next time i'm busy with something [11:51] i can't just randomly start editing wiki pages [11:51] i'm just going to make it worse [11:51] lol thats why i say clever peeps [11:51] wiki is read only for me [11:52] talking about contributing, i completely left my e2ee project laying in the ditch [11:52] i'm serious about taking this further but i literally have not received any feedback or comments on it yet [11:52] again [11:53] thats the prob man no one has time [11:53] try the pro tonight for feedback [11:53] he use to be busy here most days but he too is rare now [11:53] it's not time that is the problem, it's that i just don't want to make it yet another one man project [11:53] but i do have time enough to throw into this [11:54] ya but you need feedback from peeps in the know of whats needed [11:54] exactly [11:54] useless for me to comment [11:54] not necessarily, you might have some good ideas [11:54] if you dont mind ingorant suggestions then ill help you [11:55] all suggestions are good, there are no ignorant suggestions :P [11:55] 90% of what you talk about there is greek to me [11:55] it was a quick draft-up so that fault might be with me [11:56] you want to make a secure irc chat thingie right? [11:56] you could call it that yes [11:56] although it was supposed to be a protocol for end-to-end encrypted communication, it doesn't matter what's in it [11:56] now what i dont understand is, will it still use freenode etc? [11:56] it could be im, voip, video conference, file sharing, etc [11:57] wb spinza whats news [11:57] no it has nothing to do with freenode, freenode is an irc network [11:57] you could implement something similar to irc on top of it, but that wouldn't be the idea [11:57] so it will be a stand alone thing [11:57] irc is a fairly public medium, no real need to secure it [11:57] well, the use case is more along the lines of xmpp than irc [11:58] but who will use it [11:58] the only problems with xmpp is that 1) you have data rentention on the server and 2) it has no automatic fail-over [11:58] people who do, just like irc or xmpp or anything else [11:58] who would use irc or xmpp or email [11:59] no man dodo [11:59] everyone uses irc [11:59] not everyone, a bunch of people who are fairly clued up (people like us) [11:59] who will they connect to on a new thing [11:59] the noobs use facebook and twitter [11:59] only other people using clients that run the same protocol [11:59] hahaha the pro uses twitter [12:00] the same as any other service, who started using facebook at the start, also only a few people [12:00] i mean charl `you make this thing right [12:00] i would use it, and i know a few other people who would also, and that's enough for a start [12:00] then no one knows about it so it just lies there [12:00] Then why not use xmpp? [12:00] that would be really bad [12:01] Trixar_za: i gave two reasons above [12:01] hi Trixar_za [12:01] so the idea would be to get the word out [12:01] There's a nice server written in lua called Prosody IM [12:01] and for that use fb and twitter to get the word out [12:01] Trixar_za: i run it, so i know about it [12:01] Trixar_za: that's what's running on charl.eu right now [12:03] you can actually add me as a contact if you want, charl at charl dot eu [12:03] both email and xmpp [12:04] i gotta go lie down a while [12:04] wbb [12:04] enjoy Kilos ! [12:05] no man no one enjoys an exploding head [12:05] hehe [12:05] like saying enjoy your migraine [12:06] I ran Prosody once and it was pretty good for my needs. Not exactly IRC though. Even the creator of IRC saw it going in a different direction rather than stagnating [12:07] Interestingly, it did include secure, private and p2p communication [12:07] It also includes meta-networking. Which is semi-taboo on IRC and which I helped make worse with my Janus improvements :P [12:08] Kilos: oh sorry man :( [12:08] get better soon! [12:09] np ty [12:10] Trixar_za: i'm not sure i understand, are you talking about xmpp now? you can encrypt messages that goes over xmpp yes [12:10] Trixar_za: you have two forms of encryption that i saw implemented: openpgp and otr [12:11] No, I mean IRC [12:11] http://www.irc-junkie.org/2012-04-23/interview-with-jarkko-oikarinen-the-inventor-of-irc/ [12:11] :P [12:11] Trixar_za: otr is the most common form although i've experimented with openpgp in centerim and it works brilliantly [12:11] reading [12:12] It's funny because Jarkko writes servers now and most of them has to do with some cryptography implementation [12:13] whow i really like the idea of network of networks [12:15] it shouldn't be too difficult to implement cryptography on top of irc [12:15] just pass around openpgp encrypted messages in private conversations [12:15] in a public chatroom (like this) it would be much more difficult though, but also probably unnnecessary [12:16] The question is how much do you leave to the client and how much do you leave to the server [12:16] i would say leave the absolute minimum to the server [12:17] the client runs on your own machine and is under your full control [12:17] the server could be anything, it should be assumed to be non-trusted [12:17] that was my whole inspiration behind my idea too [12:17] just use the server as a dumb router to route messages around [12:18] just use it to a) hide your ip b) get messages without needing to work around nat routing in ipv4 [12:18] and dynamic ip addresses etc, otherwise you need a central directory to look up ip addresses in any case [12:18] Essentially, IRCd are just dumb routers [12:19] works extremely well for unsecure conversation [12:19] the one issue is you need to "own" some type of identity [12:20] on irc that is your nickname, that means you need to register it and authenticate with a password [12:21] what i wanted to do is allow a user to authenticate using ppk, a bit similar as with ssh [12:21] except with ssh you also have a set of fixed identities and associated public keys on the server [12:21] what i wanted to do is let a client say "here, i have this public key, and i can prove that i am the owner using my private key" [12:22] challenge-response type scenario [12:22] then you proved your identity and the server knows that you are who you claim to be, nothing needs to be stored on the server [12:22] you could literally boot up a server from a read-only device [12:23] you could boot up a whole cluster using pxe [12:23] charl, Got my pc pxe booting :) [12:23] if you want to roll out updates, do them centrally and reboot all the servers one by one [12:23] nothing new about it, they used to do it with tuxlabs too [12:24] the kids break the software, just reboot and everything goes back to its original setup [12:24] do all updates centrally, etc, very nice for an african school with poor internet [12:26] oh nice, janus looks interesting, even created by a dutch guy [12:26] charl: Funny you say that about public keys... because TS6 servers can use that to authenticate opers and I believe Atheme can use it to authenticate nicknames [12:27] daniel is a pretty good C++ coder. It shows in his code. I heard he taught himself perl mostly by using perldoc [12:27] well i used to do that with ssh literally for 8+ years and if you use github you do it in a similar way [12:27] so nothing new about it at all [12:28] sounds like my type of person [12:28] Yeah, I'm not exactly sure how it works since I haven't used it, but one of my opers do [12:29] does* [12:29] I think the limitation requires that you connect using ssl though [12:31] makes sense [12:31] ssl does support client certificate authentication [12:31] or tls now i hope [12:33] They've added gnutls support to several IRCds as an alternative to openssl [12:33] licensing issues like usual [12:35] hmmm [12:44] http://www.thefanclub.co.za/how-to/ubuntu-google-drive-client-grive-and-grive-tools [12:45] nice to see ZA contributing some nifty open source things :) [12:52] i used to work for the fsiu - the free software innovation unit - in cape town [12:52] we used to do a lot of open source related work in africa [12:52] we even went to oscon in 2010 [12:52] paul scott (my manager) is an oscon veteran [13:08] Working in open source development would rock [18:07] evening all [18:08] night [18:08] night nlsthzn [18:08] sleep tight [18:09] * nlsthzn not going to sleep yet :p initially thought uncle Kilos was going off-line :p [18:09] i just came back [18:10] :p yourself [18:11] pity xchat dont show them so i can see who does what [18:12] some peeps stick tongues out [18:15] :p is tongue sticking out [18:15] hahaha you see [18:16] and :P [18:17] hi theblazehen [18:19] hi Kilos [18:27] lo inetpro het jy darem reen gekry [18:27] ons het 3 mm [18:28] spinza_, is your 13.10 working good? [19:03] night all. sleep tight [19:33] good evening [19:34] Maaz: tell Kilos we had a very welcome 4mm to cool us down again [19:34] inetpro: Got it, I'll tell Kilos on freenode [19:36] hi inetpro [19:54] superfly: how's the weather down in the cape? [21:08] thanks for checking up kilos. everything was fine except my mariadb got uninstalled. weird thing with mysql but sorted it out quickly. and didn't lose my db [21:08] just wich my adsl was as good