[01:02] <brainwash> ochosi: eleggua?
[07:16] <ochosi> brainwash: what up?
[09:55] <slickymaster> good morning all
[09:57] <knome> morning slickymaster 
[09:57] <slickymaster> hi, knome. good morning. Hope everything is fine with you
[09:58] <knome> yep
[09:58] <slickymaster> knome: :)
[10:01] <knome> slickymaster, and you?
[10:02] <slickymaster> knome: alright, also
[10:02] <knome> good to hear
[10:02] <slickymaster> knome: like you, looking for an apartment
[10:02] <knome> aha :) (we should continue this on -offtopic)
[10:03] <slickymaster> knome: :) yes, you're right. It's a topic for this channel
[10:03] <slickymaster> it's not ^^
[10:03] <knome> heh
[10:08] <ochosi> morning slickymaster 
[10:09] <slickymaster> knome: almost finishing xubuntu-docs translation (91% is alreqady done) but I want to proofread it when done. What's the best way to do it
[10:09] <slickymaster> hi ochosi, good morning
[10:10] <slickymaster> ochosi: I saw you already upload to docs.xfce.org the video section. Thanks for that
[10:10] <knome> slickymaster, nice :)
[10:10] <ochosi> slickymaster: no problem, i'm currently reviewing the dvd-section jjfrv8 did
[10:11] <slickymaster> knome: I was thinking of building it locally, that's possible, right?
[10:11] <slickymaster> ochosi: and parole is about done, or am I wrong?
[10:12] <ochosi> yeah, i think so :)
[10:12] <ochosi> slickymaster: do you happen to be a native speaker?
[10:13] <slickymaster> ochosi: I'm a portuguese native speaker, who happens to be some what fluent in english
[10:13] <ochosi> shouldn't this read "chapters'" here? "...those chapters numbers will appear in..."
[10:13] <ochosi> right, then we're pretty much on the same level :)
[10:14] <slickymaster> ochosi: what are you refering to?
[10:14] <ochosi> that's a snippet from the dvd section
[10:14] <slickymaster> ochosi: give a minute, I'll take a look
[10:14] <ochosi> and imo the chapters is missing the possessive '
[10:14] <slickymaster> give me ^^
[10:14] <ochosi> sure
[10:15] <ochosi> (it's in the bottom of the dvd section)
[10:18] <slickymaster> ochosi: yeah I think your right. It should be the possessive form. IMO it should be "..., those chapters' numbers..."
[10:18] <ochosi> good, i'll change that then
[10:19] <ochosi> nice, copied over
[10:20] <slickymaster> knome: also, exploiting the fact that I have you here and even knowing that it is not a priority and you have too much to deal with, whenever you'll be able to spare a few minutes, https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/192413 related to  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bug/1238718
[10:21] <slickymaster> ochosi: don't forget if you need some further help, I'm here
[10:22] <ochosi> slickymaster: thanks a lot!! i've just copied over the last piece by jjfrv8 (the right-click menu) and will go through all the docs together with bluesabre one evening (hopefully this week) to see whether there's anything missing, but i things are looking splendid!
[10:22] <slickymaster> ochosi: glad to hear that
[10:22] <knome> slickymaster, merged
[10:24] <slickymaster> knome: thanks. regardind the build of xubuntu-docs trusty series, I can build the locally to proofread them, right?
[10:24] <knome> slickymaster, that's a good question.
[10:24] <knome> i mean, sure, you can build the english one...
[10:24] <knome> i'm not sure if there is infrastructure to even build the translated versions yet
[10:24] <slickymaster> knome: to which, I'm sure you'll be able to answer ;)
[10:25] <slickymaster> knome: don't waste your time with it. I'll try it
[10:28] <knome> heh, sure
[10:30] <knome> we'll need to find out how that's possible at some point because we will need that for enabling the translations in the release
[10:33] <slickymaster> knome: well, I?, hoping to finish the translation by the end of the week, so I'll try to build them to be able to proofread it. I'll report you what I'll be doing to achieve it
[10:33] <knome> sure. good luck!
[10:33] <slickymaster> knome: :) it's like they say, where there's a will, there's a way
[10:42] <slickymaster> knome: I'm ISO testing Xubuntu today's build and at the beginning of the slideshow it reads "Congratulations... you're installing Xubuntu 13.10...". Do you think it's worth to fil a bug against https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu ?
[10:43] <knome> it won't hurt. we will have to look at the slideshow anyway, but if you file a bug i'm sure it won't go unnoticed
[10:43] <slickymaster> knome: ok, thanks
[10:43] <knome> bbl
[11:30] <slickymaster> elfy: FIY https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/1250052
[11:39] <ali1234> how come if i xfdesktop --quit, i can't set the root window colour using xsetroot?
[11:39] <ali1234> xwininfo says the big grey empty space is the root window
[11:41] <ali1234> apps which can render into an existing window also don't work, eg xterm and xscreensaver hacks
[11:41] <brainwash> hsetroot works
[11:43] <ali1234> if i run xfdesktop and tell the hack to render into it's window it works
[11:43] <ali1234> it's probably nvidia weirdness
[12:23] <slickymaster> knome: Translations for this Xubuntu trusty series are not available yet. Do you have any idea of when they'll be available?
[12:35] <ochosi> ali1234: you could get in touch with eric, he's still quite actively working on xfdesktop
[12:35] <ochosi> (possibly email is the best way to reach him)
[12:35] <ali1234> it's nothing to do with xfdesktop really...
[12:35] <ali1234> you can't hold it responsible for what happens when it isn't running
[12:36] <ochosi> does it make a difference whether the compositor of xfwm4 is switched on?
[12:36] <ochosi> or are you not using that anyways?
[13:15] <ali1234> haven't checked. it's not really that important :)
[13:25] <elfy> slickymaster: I'm surprised that the slideshow still says 13.10 :)
[13:25] <elfy> I'll mark it wishlist for 4 months :D
[13:25] <elfy> s/not surprised 
[13:39] <knome> slickymaster, i'll have to see about that later. i need to set them up, i suppose
[14:31] <slickymaster> ok elfy, thanks
[20:43] <knome> Unit193, at this time, it would be nice to know if the trusty images work "at all"
[20:43] <knome> or if there is still (ubuntu) core things that are broken or half-broken
[20:44] <knome> so i suppose some ISO testing would be a good start
[20:44] <Unit193> Erm, I'm talking about mini.iso+xubuntu-core.
[20:44] <knome> ah.
[20:44] <knome> so -core testing...
[20:44] <knome> i think we still should try to settle what we want from it first :/
[20:45] <Unit193> Sure, I've no idea what you guys are thinking, but for me it's mini+install.
[20:45] <knome> well yes, i think that's the right way to proceed
[20:53] <Unit193> Problem I see, people won't do a commandline install with --no-install-recommends.
[20:55] <knome> don't know.
[20:56] <Unit193> But yes, testing?
[20:56] <knome> can you put up some kind of ISO for that?
[20:56] <knome> or would you like others to have a poke at that?
[20:57] <Unit193> Sure, but an ISO would be just to see generally what it would have, right?
[20:57] <knome> theoretically we don't need an ISO for that
[20:58] <knome> as i said, we should agree on a general direction what that should have
[20:58] <knome> after we have that, it's much saner to see what that feels like :)
[20:58] <Unit193> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso then apt-get install --no-install-recommends xubuntu-core
[20:58] <knome> but if you want to build an ISO with what the draft is now for people to test it... that would work as well.
[20:58] <knome> Unit193, does "xubuntu-core" exist?
[20:59] <Unit193> Yes, but not in the main repos yet.
[20:59] <Unit193> (It's how I've tested it.)
[20:59] <knome> aha, so one would need to enable something
[20:59] <Unit193> For testing, yes.
[20:59] <knome> okay
[20:59] <knome> now tell me
[20:59] <knome> what was the problem with not doing --no-install-recommends again
[21:00] <Unit193> Pulls in (at least half of) Unity, Gnome, and who knows what else.
[21:01] <knome> why? :)
[21:01] <Unit193> Now, this may be a problem with how I'm creating it, but I generally just edited the xubuntu-desktop one.
[21:01] <knome> or, to put it other way, why doesn't xubuntu-desktop do that?
[21:01] <Unit193> As far as I know, that one doesn't do it because it defines other packages that fill the role requested.
[21:02] <Unit193> I'd like to know for sure too, but that'd need someone other than me to look at.
[21:03] <knome> would you like me to hook you up with somebody who could know, or would you do that yourself?
[21:06] <Unit193> I'm thinking for now I'll look through more docs or check application deps.
[21:06] <knome> okay, that works as well
[21:06] <knome> will you be able to make the meeting this thursday?
[21:06] <knome> or any meeting at 16UTC?
[21:06] <Unit193> (It's what I've been doing.)  Nope.
[21:06] <Unit193> Nope.
[21:07] <knome> ok, what would work for you on thursday?
[21:08] <Unit193> 20:00UTC looks best, but I don't really need to be there.
[21:08] <Unit193> Nothing has changed since last time, basically.
[21:09] <knome> i'll schedule myself for that so we can look deeper into it
[21:09] <knome> i'll ask the team in the meeting if they have questions, or if they have anything else they'd like you to know
[21:09] <knome> and i'll try to think about the whole thing better before that
[21:10] <Unit193> I'm trying to installs in vbox now to see what happens, one tasksel lubuntu-core, and one apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[21:10] <knome> okay
[21:10] <knome> is there something you like me to take care of before we meet the next time?
[21:10] <knome> i can run a test or so, if you'd think that'd help
[21:12] <Unit193> My only thought is for someone else to take a look at what's there and installed, and see what else we can get rid of, or what else we need to add.
[21:12] <knome> okay, so would i simply download the mini.iso and install xubuntu-core from a place you'll specify, or do you need something else+
[21:12] <knome> ?
[21:13] <Unit193> Generally, yep.
[21:13] <knome> and can you email me whatever you need me to do so i'll have it safe somewhere (eg. not in a piece of paper somewhere around all this stuff that's going out :P)
[21:15] <Unit193> I made a script that does it, if that counts. :P
[21:15] <knome> whatever that works... works
[21:16] <Unit193> My other thought was have brainwash look at it, he seems to know everything. :P
[21:17] <knome> heh, worksforme
[21:22] <brainwash> I don't really care about xubuntu-core, is there even a demand for it?
[21:35] <Unit193> Anywho, email sent.
[21:36] <Unit193> queuebot just noticed about the xfce4-terminal package in unapproved/proposed.
[21:38] <ali1234> is that mine?
[21:39] <ali1234> yes
[21:39] <Unit193> Yep.
[21:39] <brainwash> after all these years
[21:40] <ali1234> has it really been broken for years??
[21:40] <brainwash> "years"
[21:40] <ali1234> heh. it wasn't broken in 13.04 anyway :P
[21:40] <brainwash> since the move to gtk 3.8 I guess
[21:41] <ali1234> yeah. they must have moved around some items in a struct
[21:41] <ali1234> so i'm implementing zooming in xfwm4 now...
[22:13] <ochosi> ali1234: i'm really excited to see the patch somewhere :)
[22:13] <ali1234> just doing the mouse poller
[22:13] <ali1234> then i'll post it
[22:13] <ochosi> sweet
[22:14] <ali1234> hmm... wrong type structs
[22:15] <ali1234> cool... it works
[22:16] <ochosi> woot
[22:16] <ochosi> congrats
[22:16] <ali1234> total of 100 lines added
[22:16] <ochosi> wowza
[22:16] <ochosi> and a library with 1000 lines? :D
[22:16] <ali1234> ezoom is 2000 lines long
[22:17] <ali1234> i think some developers get paid by lines of code
[22:17] <ochosi> that likely produces many comments in the code or really bad code :)
[22:19] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6402215/ <- apply on xfwm4 git master
[22:20] <ali1234> ./autogen.sh --enable-compositor && make && src/xfwm4 --replace
[22:20] <ali1234> zooming is now done on alt+scrollwheel
[22:20] <ochosi> that's really a short patch
[22:21] <ali1234> of course :)
[22:22] <ochosi> nice, it also applies on top of my tabwin branch :)
[22:22] <ali1234> i can't remember which way around zoom in/out was - i think i've got it backwards
[22:23] <ali1234> but when i swap them over it still feels wrong
[22:24] <ochosi> hm, says "missing defaults file"
[22:24] <ochosi> ah
[22:24] <ochosi> ok, missing a config option
[22:25] <ali1234> hmm... yeah it's definitely backwards
[22:25] <ochosi> moving the scrollwheel forward used to szoom in i think
[22:26] <ali1234> yeah
[22:26] <ochosi> wowza
[22:26] <ochosi> works like a charm
[22:27] <ochosi> gotta say i'm impressed
[22:27] <ali1234> thanks :)
[22:27] <ali1234> there's still improvements to be made
[22:27] <ochosi> even feels very smooth and responsive
[22:27] <ali1234> there are different filter types which will make it look less pixelly
[22:27] <ochosi> fwiw, i'm testing in a multi-head setup
[22:27] <ali1234> cool
[22:28] <ochosi> and evrything works as expected
[22:28] <ochosi> which is really awesome
[22:28] <ali1234> i remember ezoom had a bug for ages with multihead
[22:28] <ali1234> cos i backported the fix to 0.8 :)
[22:28] <ochosi> the pixelated aspect is fun when you're looking for weird pixels (e.g. in icons)
[22:28] <ali1234> true
[22:28] <ochosi> :)
[22:28] <ali1234> but at low zooms it does look quite bad
[22:29] <ochosi> but most of the time, i'd take screenshots and use gimp to zoom
[22:29] <ochosi> true that
[22:29] <ochosi> just for the fun of it: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/istantanea-11112013-112939pm.php
[22:30] <ali1234> hmm... screenshot looks kinda messed up
[22:30] <ali1234> bottom right?
[22:30] <ali1234> also, if you open a menu, alt gets stolen and you can't zoom out until you close it
[22:31] <ali1234> that might be fixed by using super instead
[22:31] <ali1234> i used alt, cos there was some commented out code which already did exactly what i needed basically
[22:32] <ochosi> that part of the screen isn't visible (out of scope of my laptop-screen, which is on the right)
[22:32] <ochosi> so i'm not terribly surprised it's a little messed up
[22:32] <ali1234> oh, that's two monitors?
[22:32] <ochosi> yup :)
[22:32] <ali1234> it doesn't zoom them independently?
[22:32] <ochosi> nope, together, like one huge canvas
[22:33] <ochosi> which is kinda what i'd expect
[22:33] <ali1234> if you have one-big-screen i would expect it to work - that's cheating :)
[22:33] <ali1234> the real test is whether it works with twinview
[22:33] <ochosi> 1280x1024 + 1280x800
[22:33] <ochosi> twinview is mirror-mode?
[22:33] <ali1234> twinview is nvidia proprietary mode
[22:33] <ochosi> (yeah, i'm using extended desktop)
[22:34] <ochosi> ah right
[22:34] <ochosi> i did away with that
[22:34] <ali1234> it does xinerama with multiple screens
[22:34] <ochosi> and can only recommend using the display dialog of xfce
[22:34] <ochosi> xinerama was what again? :D
[22:34] <ali1234> the only way to make nearly everything maximize to only one monitor
[22:34] <ochosi> my windows maximize only to the current monitor...
[22:34]  * ochosi scratches head
[22:35] <ali1234> that's fake fullscreen then :P
[22:35] <ali1234> not everything can do that, though it is preferred
[22:39] <ali1234> i think the most surprising thing is i didn't even crash X once :)
[22:40] <ochosi> i dunno, even youtube works with that nowadays
[22:40] <ochosi> and i dunno, we didn't implement any fancy magic in parole for that and it works there too
[22:40] <ochosi> (i think ubuntu added some youtube-patches)
[22:41] <ali1234> ah flash... flash has so many problems
[22:41] <ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/workaround-for-flash-on-linux-multihead-desktops/
[22:42] <ali1234> my most popular piece of code ever
[22:43] <brainwash> oh, so that's you and not some random guy with the same nick :D
[22:43] <brainwash> ali1234/fullscreenhack
[22:43] <ali1234> yup
[22:45] <ochosi> did you fix end up in ubuntu? :)
[22:45] <ali1234> no
[22:45] <ali1234> it's totally crazy
[22:45] <ali1234> it dynamic patches xlib, not flash
[22:46] <ali1234> when flash asks the wrong question, the patched functions give it the wrong answer
[22:46] <ali1234> turns out sometimes two wrongs do make a right
[22:47] <brainwash> couldn't one also edit the flash library directly (hex editor)?
[22:47] <brainwash> I recall reading about this
[22:48] <ochosi> hm
[22:50] <ali1234> there are some patches like that for windows
[22:50] <ali1234> but they break on every new release
[23:01] <Unit193> knome: Yeah, -desktop doesn't work as is either. :)
[23:05] <ochosi> ali1234: to me it's so surprising how smooth the zooming goes
[23:05] <ochosi> i guess an option to configure the modifier or the zoomwheel direction could be nice
[23:06] <ochosi> other than that it really seems quite perfect already
[23:06] <ochosi> even menus seem usable
[23:06] <ali1234> there's no reason for it to be slow - it renders everything into a texture already
[23:06] <ali1234> all this does is change the transformation when that buffer is rendered to the screen
[23:06] <ali1234> no extra calls are done except for the mouse polling stuff
[23:07] <ali1234> and the forced update
[23:07] <ochosi> yeah
[23:07] <ali1234> i guess technically that is unneccesary
[23:07] <ochosi> that doesn't seem to add too much overhead
[23:07] <ali1234> since we only want to rerender the buffer onto the display, not redraw all windows
[23:09] <ali1234> if i implement locking like compiz, that will be tricky
[23:09] <ali1234> since t's really just a fluke that the pointer is in the right place
[23:11] <ochosi> you could implement something like keyboard navigation
[23:11] <ochosi> i mean keyboard-only
[23:11] <ochosi> that way getting the window to the right place should be easier