[00:00] robert_ancell: not sure you know this, but despite my warnings, lubuntu is currently (13.10) using lightdm-only to "lock" their session... [00:01] ochosi, oh, what were the warnings? [00:01] robert_ancell: "you can easily access a 'locked' session with ctrl+alt+f7 if you don't use something to actually *lock* your session" [00:01] the typical issue [00:01] right [00:02] they ignored it and thought lightdm is enough [00:02] hope they pick up some solution for the lts [00:02] ochosi, they're running nothing in-session to do the locking? [00:02] nope [00:02] hmm [00:02] i was wondering whether a "warning label" on lightdm would help against these cases [00:02] ochosi, was there a reason why they didn't use light-locker? Perhaps because it wasn't in the archive [00:03] ochosi, where would you put the warning? [00:03] robert_ancell: well, yes, it wasn't in the archive by the time. but it would've been ready in time [00:03] in the non-existent docs? /me feels bad [00:03] robert_ancell: phu, not sure where to put the warning. maybe in the docs/help that mention the locking? :D [00:03] I must write a manual [00:03] yeah, that should be fine [00:04] there's also some api docs iirc, you could put it there as a note [00:04] (not really the right place, but better than nothing) [00:04] btw, kudos on how many fixes you backported to older lightdm versions lately! [00:05] Been trying to keep them fresh. Thanks for noticing! [00:09] robert_ancell: actually, does that plan you mentioned earlier (the session/greeter sending a signal to lightdm that it's ready to be displayed/VT-switched to) not a bit obsolete with Mir? [00:09] oops, language-fail :) [00:09] s/does/is/ [00:10] ochosi, I'm not sure - the compositor notifies lightdm when each session sends the first frame which is a lot closer. That may not necessarily mean the session is ready though [00:10] ochosi, the main problem is there's not a good comms channel for a session to notify the daemon and no sessions in general have a good hook to tell when they think they're ready [00:11] we tried this ages ago with xsplash in Ubuntu and it sort of worked by hooking into gnome-session [00:12] robert_ancell: right, true that. we're also hoping to make the transition from the greeter to the desktop a bit smoother in 14.04 (right now things just pop up on the screen one after the other...) [00:12] (in xubuntu, that is) [00:13] ochosi, right - to do that you need to run the session in a new X server and VT switch to it. We're not doing that currently due to the VT switch problems [00:13] then the greeter could show a spinner and switch once the session is ready which would be nice [00:14] robert_ancell: yeah, these sort of things would be nice if VT switching were entirely unproblematic... === duflu_ is now known as duflu [06:00] Good morning [08:16] morning === tjaalton_ is now known as tjaalton [09:02] greetings [09:06] Laney: good morning [09:08] good morning desktopers! [09:08] Morning! :) [09:08] hey guys :) [09:11] * pitti grouphugs Laney, seb128, sil2100, and didrocks [09:12] #u-desktop comes to life \o/ [09:12] * didrocks hugs pitti [09:12] * seb128 grouphugs pitti&co back [09:12] \o/ [09:12] pitti: well, here for some hours, just quiet catching up :) [09:13] very holbachy in here today :) [09:14] yeah, just in time for dholbach to get back from India :) [09:14] * didrocks adds the adjective to his vocabulary [09:14] ogra_, speaking of which, I see that Daniel is back online ;-) [09:14] yeah [09:14] it just takes a while to ride on an elephant from India to Berlin :) [09:14] probably very badly jetlagged [09:15] pitti, ah, did he fly elephant class ? [09:17] seb128: can you bounce me that email about folks? [09:17] I think I deleted it by mistake ¬_¬ [09:17] WAIT, I found it [09:18] Laney, I'm going to reply, I had eds 3.10 on my week TODO [09:18] https://launchpad.net/~laney/+archive/gnome-transition/ [09:18] shrug [09:18] that's a start [09:18] Laney, good that you almost lost that email and pointed that ppa in return [09:18] didn't do e-d-s stuff though really, mainly goa [09:18] * seb128 does like dupping work [09:18] I was going to reply, thought I already said about it last week [09:19] I didn't record the info it seems ;-) [09:19] do you still do webkit? how did the armhf build go? [09:19] yeah it all spidered out of that, don't remember the exact path [09:19] armhf worked [09:19] webkit is a mess on the ppa builders atleast [09:20] it's a three way webkitgtk + gnome-online-accounts + e-d-s thing [09:20] we havent been able to get a amd64 build to succeed in weeks [09:20] darkxst: sad, luckily I have access to a PPA which builds on the real builders [09:20] feel free to copy the webkitgtk out of the one I just linked if you need it [09:21] darkxst, is webkit incompatible in some way? [09:21] ups [09:21] Laney, ^ [09:21] don't think so, it just adds webkit2 packages [09:22] they renamed the source to follow upstream [09:22] ok [09:22] so it's not linked to goa/eds updates? [09:22] let me remember [09:22] it would be nice to get it out of the way first [09:22] the new evo needs it [09:22] Perhaps it was the other way [09:23] so it's probably a pre-required [09:23] like one of those made me upgrade webkit [09:23] right [09:23] that makes sense [09:23] which is one of the reasons I want it "out of the way" [09:23] yeah [09:24] I'll look at uploading that next [09:24] thanks [09:24] * seb128 is looking at GTK 3.10 (thanks larsu for dealing with the update) this week [09:24] if you want to do some e-d-s stuff then you can copy things from that PPA or make one which deps on it [09:24] ok [09:25] I didn't start on it, but I guess from the comment/ppa that there are some soname changes :/ [09:25] or add it to a chroot or whatever [09:25] of course [09:25] seb128: I hope to have it ready for you today [09:25] g-o-a too but the only source change I found was in g-c-c which I already patched in there [09:25] depending on how much work the theming stuff will be [09:25] larsu, once the menu and scrollbar issues are fixed we can push to the ppa for more testing I think [09:26] cool [09:26] Laney, I'm pondering dropping goa support from a bunch of stuff, but that wouldn't be popular with the GNOME remix I think [09:26] certainly not [09:28] Laney, well, we can argue that uoa is what provide online accounts in Ubuntu, the same way that upstart is what provides you an init... [09:30] Laney, reality is that we need to make eds stop depending on webkitgtk because that brings a GNOME stack on Ubuntu Touch, and I failed to due that because of goa, not sure what to do next [09:30] Laney, we could dual build 2 version of e-d-s and make them conflict, but that sucks as well... [09:33] actually it might be possible to split goa [09:34] all of the eds stuff depends on libgoa-1.0.so.0 which is not the one which depends on webkitgtk [09:36] oh, I didn't look at the goa side, thanks for the suggestion [09:37] * Laney will look into that [09:38] thanks === alan_g is now known as alan_g|afk [09:47] js> print("Hello darkxst"); [09:47] Hello darkxst [09:49] Laney, python> python -c 'print("Hello Laney")'? [09:49] * seb128 tries to guess the game [09:49] js breakage on ppc [09:49] oh [09:51] larsu, I found another bug with the new GTK... [09:51] shoot! [09:51] larsu, update-manager, the list of packages doesn't resize to match the windows [09:52] larsu, http://ubuntuone.com/6mUJidrQNJEuBjWP80bc8L [09:52] larsu, if I downgrade to 3.8 it works as it should, e.g no shrinked list [09:53] "oops something broke while generating thi page" [09:53] I'll try to reproduce here [09:53] larsu, retry, it was still uploading [09:53] it's working now [09:53] same problem [09:53] k [09:53] ah, now! took a few times [09:54] I can reproduce. Thanks for letting me know! [09:54] yw, thanks for working on those issues! [09:56] darkxst: I lost your non-fatal-ppc patch - do you have it? [10:32] seb128, seems to just be a ppa builder issue [10:33] it builds fine on debian atleast [10:34] Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~darkxst/ubuntu/trusty/gjs/1.38.1-2 [10:35] ta [10:42] Laney, the "imports" stuff is gjs specific [10:43] yeah, saw [10:43] shrug, ports.u.c is sloooow [10:43] * seb128 tries to install build-depends on his nexus for an hour [10:43] it keeps hanging === alan_g|afk is now known as alan_g [10:45] Laney, the gnome guys only have one ppc machine left and that is used for building packages [10:45] ^well only one that still works [11:12] HI, I have problem with grub the issue is I cant see the grub menu at the time of booting even after giving the grub timeout [11:13] in grub.cfg [11:15] aslan, hey, try #ubuntu for user questions === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [12:00] seb128, ya I will [12:00] thankyou [12:04] didrocks: any status update for landing ubuntu-settings-components? [12:04] dednick: we are relying on having the infra back [12:04] didrocks: ok. thought it might be. [12:05] dednick: if you look at the ubuntu phone image, the CI guys are still working on it [12:05] ML* [12:05] * didrocks autotypes image now :) [12:05] dednick: as soon it's in, I'll get that landed [12:05] didrocks: cool. thanks [12:05] as long as it doesnt turn *all* words into image thats fine :) [12:05] yw ;) [12:05] but an image is worth 1000 words [12:05] ogra_: did you image the image for the image thing? [12:06] image image image, image image ? [12:06] image is the new smurfs [12:06] ;) [12:06] :) [12:07] didrocks, green is the new blue? [12:07] in a jenkins sense, yeah! :) [12:07] image ! [12:07] ahah === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [13:24] hmm [13:24] what team should we subscribe to package bugs? [13:24] Laney, desktop-bug [13:24] s [13:24] ah [13:25] seb128: you look like the owner there - can you subscribe it to libwebp? [13:25] bug #1186553 [13:25] Launchpad bug 1186553 in libwebp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libwebp" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1186553 [13:28] Laney, done [13:28] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libwebp/+subscriptions [13:30] merci [13:30] de rien ;-) [13:32] lunch time [13:32] we can fiddle the archive for webkit → webkitgtk after that [13:32] great! enjoy lunch ;-) [13:47] tjaalton: yeah, I will look at them probably tomorrow [13:51] didrocks: thanks [13:51] yw :) [13:51] :) === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g === gatox is now known as dr_gatox_away [15:06] bah, writing that email took we a solid 1h [15:06] we->me [15:06] (keyboard layouts handling for the LTS just sent to ubuntu-devel@) [15:06] let's see if anyone is wanting to read that much text :/ [15:08] seb128: very nice mail! [15:08] speed reader [15:09] pitti, thanks ;-) [15:10] seb128: I've seen how fast you type, that's not an email it's a novel ;) [15:10] pitti, do you have any opinion on the topic ?(out of "just make it work" ;-) [15:10] lol [15:11] reading [15:12] seb128: I haven't read it in that detail yet (just back from giving lighting talk, and debugging systemd-shim now); but I'll read it tomorrow in the train when I have some quiet time to think about it [15:15] pitti, thanks ;-) [15:18] seb128, that should have been a blog post :) [15:18] seb128, i guess ubuntu-devel is your blog [15:18] :-p [15:19] * happyaron would like to vote for reverting the behavior. [15:20] kenvandine, lol, I don't know enough about the topic to blog ;-) and I'm interested in technical feedback/a decision, so the dev mailing list makes sense [15:20] happyaron, because you liked the old UI/design better? or because you think we are going to still have bugs at the LTS time? [15:20] should try to keep it on list [15:21] I bet attente has an opinion :D [15:21] ooh [15:21] * Laney writes summary [15:21] weekly summary, nothing to do with keyboards :-) [15:21] larsu, I'm sure his opinion his "I wish I could go back one cycle and *not* take on this topic" [15:21] seb128: I think UI is less important than functions at this point, since old UI isn't way too bad :) [15:22] seb128: reverting to the old way would at least don't cause regression for those upgrading from previous LTS. [15:22] happyaron, what is missing in the UI infrastructure (assuming we resolve we flackyness in the key handling and the grabbing issues)? [15:22] seb128: I don't know. I think it's an awesome thing to work on. Just a bit ... complex [15:22] larsu, yeah... [15:22] seb128: user cannot access settings of every IM now [15:23] lemme find the bug for you... [15:23] happyaron, how did they access those before? (e.g ibus is still there and should be working no?) [15:23] seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/1188509 [15:23] Launchpad bug 1188509 in indicator-keyboard (Ubuntu) "Embedded in menu doesn't work in IBus indicator" [High,Triaged] [15:23] happyaron, or is that because users used to access the ibus settings through the ibus keybinding, but the new system made them go through g-s-d which doesn't handle those options? [15:24] happyaron, oh, it's an indicator lack-of-feature it seems [15:24] seb128: there are two kind of settings, one is for ibus (the framework), the other is for IM (like ibus-pinyin). For the second one, it's usually accessed from the embedded in menu [15:25] yeah [15:25] I guess gnome-shell do expose pinyin settings from their indicator? [15:25] yes [15:27] happyaron, how are things working on Kylin today? do they have indicator-keyboard and a fcitx indicator? what about keybindings? [15:27] seb128: fcitx and most of it's UIs support indicator directly, so no indicator-keyboard needed. [15:28] pitti: good morning [15:28] seb128: keybindings are handled directly by fcitx [15:28] happyaron, I see, the fcitx stuff is another argument for having layouts and IMs decoupled [15:29] though it seems, from what you say, that Kylin doesn't need a layout indicator [15:29] yes [15:30] qengho, Sweetshark, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter_, desrt, attente, larsu: hey, it's meeting time [15:30] pitti: you seem to have contradictory reports in your logs [15:30] the indicator sends the request to systemd-shim but systemd-shim never receives such a request? [15:31] qengho, Sweetshark, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter_, desrt, attente, larsu: hey hey hey [15:31] hello [15:31] seb128:o/ [15:31] better ;-) [15:32] happyaron is here too, let him join in ;-) [15:32] :) [15:32] let's get started (/me wonders if that's DST confusing people) [15:33] happyaron, yeah, feel free to join the meetings if you want (we usually don't list people who are in tz where it's not a decent time) [15:33] qengho, hey [15:33] - fixed a few bugs in chromium. handed source packages to #security. [15:33] seb128: thanks, :) [15:33] - getting an early start on Cr 32. [15:33] EOF [15:34] did the chromium autopkgtest get fixed in this one? [15:34] qengho, thanks (good to see that chromium issues dropped from the most frequent issues, out a fglrx one) [15:34] seb128, work calendar has this an hour later. maybe adjust it h to know if timezone. [15:34] of [15:34] phone keyboard. [15:34] * seb128 looks at calendar [15:35] qengho, what about autopkgtests? (thanks Laney for asking ;-) [15:35] seb, new packages fix those. [15:35] great [15:35] qengho, thanks [15:35] Sweetshark, hey [15:35] thanks Laney [15:36] LibreOffice Hackfest Freiburg, finished with a bad case of ubuflu [15:36] did some LibreOffice dev mentoring with Marcos and Jose, two brazilian guests in Hamburg (sponsored by TDF) [15:36] LibreOffice 4.1.3 ppa with some more vendor patching (empty label on quicklist) [15:36] LibreOffice 4.2.0alpha1 tagged upstream and building (with some caveats) on trusty right now: https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-staging [15:36] got some requests wrt LibreOffice without Java, dunno exactly what to make of it [15:36] some mindless lp bugwrangling [15:36] stated candidacy for TDF board again: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Candidacy-for-a-BoD-seat-Bjoern-Michaelsen-tp4082608.html [15:36] EOF [15:36] Sweetshark: ubuflu at a libreoffice hackfest? Shouldn't it be libreflu? [15:36] * desrt votes björn! [15:37] free as in flu [15:37] ha [15:37] Sweetshark: in any case: get well soon! [15:37] Sweetshark, no toolchain issue on trusty? how boring! === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter [15:38] larsu: Im just fighting down remaining pockets of resistence ... [15:38] seb128: there will be toolchain fun. there always is. maybe those changes are not in yet ;) [15:38] gute besserung [15:38] seb128: also Im cutting some corners with the alpha release. [15:39] ok [15:39] that one is targeted at the ppa only right? [15:39] seb128: yes [15:39] ok, good [15:39] let me know when you need sponsoring for the SRU [15:40] oh, and get some rest until you feels better! [15:40] Sweetshark, thanks [15:40] mlankhorst, hey [15:40] seb128: last beta/4.2.0rc2 would be first for the archive IMHO ... [15:40] right, we discussed that during the rally, agreed [15:41] hey [15:41] oh I missed the earlier ping? :P [15:41] getting some graphics patches upstream for this merge window [15:41] glamor-egl sru's, libdrm sru [15:42] working on android syncpoints, converting fence api to be compatible with it [15:42] eod :P [15:42] (last one is more kernel work, getting my own stuff upstreamed) [15:42] mlankhorst, thanks [15:43] Laney, hey [15:43] android had their own sync mechanisms, and by using my sync mechanism as a backend for android the dupes are removed [15:43] hallo [15:43] • Patch pilot; some nagging about sponsor queue. Down to 52 now, well done all! [15:43] • Fix gdk-pixbuf FTBFS caused by missing some environment when running make check. [15:43] • Look at webkitgtk / e-d-s / g-o-a updates/transitions. [15:43] ∘ g-c-c requires a patch for new g-o-a; backported from upstream and modified to work on our g-c-c. [15:43] ∘ g-o-a transition is otherwise fine [15:43] ∘ e-d-s transition needs staging still [15:43] ∘ webkitgtk good to upload, doing that imminently [15:43] • Misc fixes for upgrade failures: screen-resolution-extra redshift [15:43] • Work on AS patch for vendor extension overrides. [15:43] • Some attempts at debugging gjs on powerpc, not entirely successful but provided some information to upstream. [15:43] EOF [15:44] Laney, thanks [15:44] tkamppeter, hey [15:46] no tkamppeter? [15:46] ok, let's move to the next one [15:46] desrt, hey ;-) [15:46] that's me! [15:46] so mostly i listened to a lot of lisa loeb [15:46] but... i also got some work done [15:46] the desktop file efficency changes (for the unindexed case) landed, along with the search API [15:47] and i've started reviews on the gcleanup branch that i started a while ago and stef picked up recently... that looks like it will land in the coming weeks -- basically it's a way of giving glib (and glib-based libraries) an easy way to clean up after themselves on exit [15:47] \o/ [15:47] that's nice for valgrind-friendly reasons, but it will also let us use a counting allocation checking cheme (+1 for malloc, -1 for free) and assert on exit if they're not equal [15:48] we'd do this from testcases, for example, so we can type 'make check' and get failures on any leak anywhere [15:48] there are a lot of tricky issues there, though [15:48] aside from that, i did a bunch of releases yesterday (systemd-shim, glib unstable, glib stable, dconf) [15:48] that's about it [15:49] uh... eof, i mean [15:49] ;-) === ara_ is now known as ara [15:49] - cups-filters: Merged CUPS-only foomatic-rip from GSoC project into cups-filters, making cups-filters the new upstream home for it. [15:49] - cups-filters: Cleaned up foomatic-rip code eliminating warnings, sharing colord support with gstoraster, fixing small bugs. [15:49] - cups-filters: Several bug fixes and clean-ups. [15:49] - CUPS SRU for Saucy to get lpadmin -m to work. [15:49] - Bugs. [15:49] new glib/dconf, we should probably get going on those at some point, we maybe let's clear some of the "start of the cycle" backlog first [15:49] Laney, ^ agreed? [15:50] like end of the month seems good to me (once we get webkit/eds/gtk in) [15:50] seb128: new glib is a party... dconf is very very boring... the only change of consequence there was to support a glib change [15:50] tkamppeter, thanks [15:50] mmm, yeah [15:50] (the new "is this key set?" API that was requested by robert_ancell and didrocks for some time now) [15:50] need to fix the build failures in debian before we can go to a new series really === dr_gatox_away is now known as gatox [15:50] so would be uploading to ubuntu only [15:50] Laney: i was planning to take a look there today [15:50] tkamppeter, thanks [15:50] neat [15:51] Laney: i'll poke you after the meeting [15:51] desrt, thanks [15:51] attente, hey [15:51] there's also https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=glib2.0&arch=armel&ver=2.38.1-2&stamp=1383832557 a different failure on arm that happens some of the time only [15:51] hi seb128 [15:52] just working on the input switcher [15:52] attente, how is the compiz grabber issue going? still stucked on this one? [15:52] i uploaded a ppa, but there's one problem that prevents it from being usable [15:53] what's the issue? [15:53] seb128, i wouldn't hesitate to advertise the ppa if only for this one issue being fixed [15:53] Laney: damn testcases always failing on weird architectures... i almost think we should just get rid of the test suite... [15:54] make -k check || true [15:54] when you log into unity, it always starts with the shortcuts set to super+space and shift+super+space, and doesn't read it from gsettings until it's changed [15:54] attente, oh, so you found the other issues where you were getting the wrong event? what was it? [15:54] seb128, yeah, the other problem is a non-issue any more [15:55] great [15:55] it was that compiz only cycled through CompOptions for checking key events [15:55] so even if you create an action and add it so that compiz can do the grab [15:55] if you're doing that manually, compiz still won't forward the events unless it's attached to a plugin option [15:56] seb128, feel free to try to ppa out [15:56] it's just that one issue i'm working on now [15:56] https://launchpad.net/~attente/+archive/modifier-only-input-switch [15:56] attente, well done on fixing that one, I'm going to try the ppa, seems like that the dynamic update shouldn't be a stopper to play with it [15:56] attente, thanks [15:57] seb128, it would probably frustrate users to always have to set it every time they log back in [15:57] attente, oh, are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel@ list? I just send a (long) email there to summarize the keyboard changes, the issues, and what to do for the LTS [15:57] 'stop shipping compiz' ;) [15:57] seb128, i saw that, but didn't read it in detail yet [15:57] attente, right, it's probably not user friendly, but for debug testing it seems it should do the job [15:57] desrt, gnome-shell has some of the same issues... [15:57] seb128, thanks for starting that discussion though :) [15:57] desrt: be nice. [15:57] attente, yw ;-) [15:58] seb128: window managers are trouble, i'm telling you... [15:58] desrt, xkb is the issue there [15:58] desrt, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55585#c0 is the issue I'm most concerned about [15:58] Freedesktop bug 55585 in UI "Should check all XKB group indexes when matching key events for accelerators and mnemonics" [Normal,Resolved: duplicate] [15:58] seb128: yo, I tried all I could with the ejabberd bug, but I can't reproduce the fix [15:59] seb128: I'm going to try a few more minutes, but so far no luck :( [15:59] cyphermox, hey, ok, thanks ... can you comment on the bug saying that? [15:59] except Kylin-related stuff, I went over almost all bugs of ibus on LP and did some triaging work, and borrow what desrt said, "input methods are touble"... [15:59] yeah [15:59] cyphermox, thanks for trying [15:59] attente, thanks [15:59] larsu, hey ;-) [15:59] hi! [15:59] - prepared and tested gtk 3.10 to be ready for prime time (updating patches and fixing the new test suite to work in tree); it's coming along nicely with only a few minor bugs left to fix [15:59] - fixed a couple of bugs in ido, indicator-{network,messages,appmenu}, and notify-osd [15:59] eof [15:59] short one :) [16:00] desrt, (not specifically only libreoffice, but eclipse and who-know-what-other-apps have the same issue and I'm not even sure they are all opensource/stuff we can fix) [16:00] larsu: didn't see that gtk action_namespace bug yet... [16:00] desrt: pings, meetings [16:00] fair enough :) [16:00] larsu, thanks, I'm waiting for the next GTK update round (hopping that gives me my menus back :p) [16:00] desrt: I'll try to get it out before leaving [16:01] seb128: I already have a patch for i-appmenu to fix that. It's been a ping-happy two hours [16:01] and I have a meeting right now :) [16:01] happyaron, did you want to do a status update with us? ;-) [16:01] larsu: if it's really going to take too long, just commit it.... but make sure you have a good message, and stable-release backport it [16:01] the code is obviously-incorrect as stands... [16:02] seb128: already said a bit, :) "except Kylin-related stuff, I went over almost all bugs of ibus on LP and did some triaging work, and borrow what desrt said, "input methods are touble"..." [16:02] desrt: I'll file a bug [16:02]