=== freeflying is now known as freeflying_away === freeflying_away is now known as freeflying === freeflying is now known as freeflying_away === doko_ is now known as doko === freeflying_away is now known as freeflying === fader_ is now known as fader === ghostcube_ is now known as ghostcube === freeflying is now known as freeflying_away === freeflying_away is now known as freeflying [16:01] arosales, I see you in the chair today - OK with that? [16:01] jamespage, yes sir [16:02] arosales, good man! [16:02] o/ [16:02] \o [16:02] startmeeting ubuntu-server-team [16:03] #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team [16:03] Meeting started Tue Nov 12 16:03:06 2013 UTC. The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [16:03] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: [16:03] #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting [16:03] * arosales doesn't see any action items from the previous meeting [16:03] #topic Saucy Development === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Saucy Development [16:03] I guess we should update that to trusty dev [16:04] done [16:04] #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule [16:04] Looks like next milestone is the Feature Definition Freeze [16:04] Alpha 1 on Dec 19th [16:05] #subtopic Release Bugs [16:05] which means feature definition freeze is at the end of vUDS [16:05] #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server [16:05] jamespage, ah good point [16:06] be good to finalize those features in vUDS [16:06] so looking @ http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server [16:06] looks to have 27 bugs for ubuntu-server [16:06] quite a few of those are SRU tasks for juju-core [16:06] I got a bit carried away [16:07] jamespage, thanks or logging them [16:07] need to have those back into the lts [16:07] one critical bug [16:07] arosales: I need to apply for a MRE for juju-core [16:07] http://launchpad.net/bugs/1229275 [16:07] Ubuntu bug 1229275 in maas (Ubuntu Saucy) "[maas] juju destroy-environment also destroys nodes that are not controlled by juju" [Critical,Triaged] [16:07] yah [16:07] jamespage, +1 on MRE for juju-core, moving pretty fast am [16:07] so all of the fixes are avaliable in the stable juju ppa [16:07] but the distro package is now out-of-date [16:07] for saucy [16:08] thus the SRUs [16:08] yup [16:08] is 1229275 a fix in maas though? [16:09] roaksoax, is the maas multi-env destroy fix already in proposed? [16:09] that might be a dupe arosales [16:09] jamespage: yes [16:09] roaksoax, ack [16:09] jamespage: in fact, is already released [16:09] arosales: yes the maas tasks for that can be dropped [16:09] roaksoax, can you update 1229275 [16:10] jamespage, ok if we hit the high unresolved bugs? [16:10] sure [16:10] roaksoax, thanks [16:10] good with me [16:10] only one critical, [16:10] next are highs [16:10] http://launchpad.net/bugs/1208455 [16:10] Ubuntu bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress] [16:11] looks like stefan bader is assigned [16:11] in progress and confirmed . . . [16:11] looks like rbasak assigned this one [16:12] but no objections by stefan [16:12] I'm not entirely sure why that is high [16:12] smb is not here to defend his position! [16:12] looks like not action needed atm though [16:12] agreed [16:12] I think somebody probably told me to assign it when I wanted an assignment at a previous meeting. [16:12] its an odd edge case IMHO [16:12] rbasak, I remember that [16:13] http://launchpad.net/bugs/1245251 [16:13] Ubuntu bug 1245251 in libvirt (Ubuntu Saucy) "Apparmor blocks usb devices in libvirt in Saucy" [High,Confirmed] [16:13] IMHO, we should either stop tracking it, or assign someone [16:13] that'll get fixed when we push 1.1.4 to trusty [16:13] Then we can focus on the stuff we intend to fix. [16:13] hallyn_, is that for apparmor? [16:13] yes [16:13] hallyn_, thanks [16:14] http://launchpad.net/bugs/1199791 [16:14] Ubuntu bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged] [16:14] the next ones are for zul [16:14] uh? [16:14] zul I think you are the assignee [16:14] oh wait..yeah still pending its going to be changing in the trusty cycle [16:14] ok [16:14] zul and for http://launchpad.net/bugs/1223010 [16:14] Ubuntu bug 1223010 in keystone (Ubuntu Saucy) "Use oauthlib rather than oauth." [High,Triaged] [16:15] (damn daylight daying hours) [16:15] arosales: i talked to upstream last week they are going to be moving to oauthlib [16:15] zul thnks [16:15] thanks [16:15] https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1228085 [16:15] Ubuntu bug 1228085 in maas (Ubuntu Saucy) "The commissioning script 00-maas-03-install-lldpd outputs to stderr." [High,Triaged] [16:15] looks like gavin has a fix [16:15] but needs to be worked in saucy [16:16] roaksoax, any opinions? [16:17] jamespage, SRU needed here? [16:17] the tasks are raised so most likely [16:17] jamespage, any actions needed for the SRUs? [16:18] http://launchpad.net/bugs/1236439 [16:18] arosales: that was fixed too [16:18] Ubuntu bug 1236439 in neutron "switch to use hostnames like nova breaks upgrades of l3-agent" [Critical,Triaged] [16:18] arosales: yes - still needed [16:19] roaksoax, ah even better. Could you update the bug if it is indeed fixed in saucy and trusty [16:19] roaksoax, is it? [16:19] I just checked in 2.2 [16:19] jamespage: yeah I fixed it differently, IIRC. Gonna have a deeper look [16:20] arosales: that neutron bug is reference upstream inthe havana release notes [16:20] roaksoax, ack [16:20] roaksoax, thanks, could you update the bug post your research? [16:20] I've pinged upstream to see if a helper is going to appear for upgraders [16:20] jamespage, ack on the neutron bug [16:20] arosales: yup [16:20] roaksoax, thanks [16:20] http://launchpad.net/bugs/1242363 [16:20] Ubuntu bug 1242363 in puppet (Ubuntu Saucy) "Puppet package needs ruby-hiera (unmapped dep)" [High,Triaged] [16:20] puppet bug [16:21] packaging issue . . . [16:21] rbasak, looks to confirmed ruby-hiera fixes it [16:21] rbasak, next action needed to update puppet deps or add in ruby-hiera? [16:21] It's on my list. [16:22] I'm hoping to combine it with a merge when I get to it, and then SRU. [16:22] rbasak, would you like to assign yourself? [16:22] Done [16:22] rbasak, thank you sir [16:22] thats the last high [16:22] have a few undecided that need triaged [16:23] I think most of them are around juju-core [16:23] * arosales thinks those are the SRUs jamespage was referring to [16:23] yes [16:23] #subtopic Blueprints [16:23] jamespage, smoser looks like we also need a trusty topic BP [16:24] arosales: we do - is that something you can setup? [16:24] jamespage, sure [16:24] #action arosales to set up topic bp for server [16:24] ACTION: arosales to set up topic bp for server [16:24] for now - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu?searchtext=servercloud-1311 [16:24] #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html [16:24] that's what we have on the list for next week [16:24] we should postpone the rest of these though [16:25] arosales: I'd leave it until after next week [16:25] we can carry stuff over and close old bp's out [16:25] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BlueprintSpec [16:25] jamespage, smoser do you want to step through these and mark postponed as necessary? [16:25] jamespage, ack [16:25] ^^ blueprint spec for new blueprints [16:26] #action jamespage, smoser, review all saucy BPs [16:26] ACTION: jamespage, smoser, review all saucy BPs [16:26] deal [16:26] where is gaughen [16:26] * arosales wanted to put in an action item there too [16:26] I'm right here! [16:27] I see gaughen [16:27] * jamespage waves [16:27] #action gaughen review saucy BPs [16:27] ACTION: gaughen review saucy BPs [16:27] * gaughen waves back [16:27] ah autocomplete just failed me [16:27] action items set ;-) [16:27] #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou) [16:27] k [16:28] mia [16:28] ok [16:28] #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa) [16:29] nothing much from us apart from the fact that our services are down at the moment [16:29] due to 1SS hardware move [16:29] psivaa, any eta on returning service? [16:29] * jamespage hates to ask [16:30] jamespage: the core services should start late this evening and the rest will be tomorrow [16:30] ack [16:30] psivaa, ok thanks for the update [16:30] yw :) [16:30] any other questions for psivaa [16:30] #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb) [16:30] mia as well [16:31] jamespage, thanks for letting me know :-) [16:31] #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak) [16:31] we had one thing we where working on with kernel team [16:31] openvswitch-dkms drop for 14.04 [16:31] Nothing new to report from me. Any questions? [16:31] can't quite make it but all of the mainline features we need are in 3.13; only need dkms for experimental stuff [16:32] jamespage, need a vUDS session on that or all coordination happening in a bug? [16:32] no [16:33] * arosales takes it as no vuds sessions needed [16:33] it will be covered in other sesssions [16:33] jamespage, ack [16:33] #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events [16:33] so lots of stuff wrapping up [16:33] ODS [16:33] RubyConf last week [16:33] AWS re:Invent this week [16:34] any other events? [16:34] #topic Open Discussion === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion [16:35] all folks in-line with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BlueprintSpec ? [16:36] jamespage one point of feedback I got, perhaps around "user acceptance" [16:36] is how do we know this particular feature is a "success" [16:36] ie what is the metric to measure the bp was actually successfully [16:37] jamespage, thoughts? [16:37] its quite subjective; but it could be anything from some dep-8 tests to a more detail decription on how to use a new feature in the docs [16:37] or does 'feature is a success' mean that the users got what they wanted? [16:38] actually that's a good point - 14.04 will have associated ubuntu-server docs; so don't forget to include doc tasks in your blueprints [16:38] sorry, its more of what the folks working on the BP define as success [16:38] hallyn_, I think it means that you can demonstrate how the use cases documented are fulfilled [16:38] ie if dep-8 test pass that is a _metric_ for success [16:38] but that is definitive, and measurable. [16:39] it should tie directly to the goal, but be more straightforward on how the goal is going to be specifically meet. [16:40] basically what are tangible working towards, and how do we know we are done [16:40] thoughts? [16:40] perhaps this is covered in an existing template point . . . [16:41] crickets [16:41] those are the ones in my head doing that [16:41] so I'm way late here - but another event coming up is vUDS [16:42] I think it comes down to how do you demonstrate that a feature is implemented [16:42] jamespage, correct [16:42] jamespage, basically I was looking for a way to document _when_ the feature is complete. [16:42] that's the halting problem [16:43] hallyn_, please expand [16:43] gaughen, good point on http://uds.ubuntu.com/ [16:43] #link http://uds.ubuntu.com/ [16:43] arosales, it's on my mind because of having to host some sessions ;-) [16:43] arosales: nah, just being a wiseass [16:43] hallyn_, jamespage so any bp work we define should have a deliverable we can measure and define as done [16:43] arosales, it's hallyn_'s turn today to be the wiseass [16:43] yup [16:43] if we don't have that how do we know it was done and done well? [16:44] so when arosales comes along and say - show me - you can point and say - there! [16:44] and he can try it himself! [16:44] yup, no ambiguity as to what is going to be delivered. [16:45] the bp tracks the work items. we mark them as done. we trust that we dont' mark them as done if they're not. you're asking for something higher level. [16:45] ie _this_ is what we are defining for delivery of this feature and what we will call success [16:45] success = we delivered what we set out to and meet user stories and the goal [16:45] but needs to be tangible, and quantifiable [16:45] each work item is that [16:46] hallyn_, so those are pieces [16:46] what are those pieces incrementally working to deliver? [16:46] hallyn_, not high level [16:46] as someone said, that's the user stories [16:47] hallyn_, what I am looking for when all work items are done what specifically did the BP deliver? [16:47] is it? [16:47] arosales: user stories. i know what you're getting at, but i don't think it's a good use of our time to try and build test cases - and run them - for each user story [16:48] maybe it is, in which case we may have to have fewer work items so we have time for that [16:48] but i think that's what uds is for each time - gauge last cycle, plan next. [16:48] anyway maybe we ned to discuss elsewhere [16:49] sure, I just don't think we are doing a great job of stating what is tangibly delivered [16:49] hallyn_, not a test case for each user story [16:49] just a specific deliverable stating what this BP is going to be delivered, that we can measure [16:49] perhaps that sets better in the goal [16:49] if the goal is written well. . . [16:50] in any case I have beaten that to death [16:50] I"ll try to write up something for the goal section [16:50] ok [16:50] #topic Announce next meeting date and time === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time [16:51] Tuesday 2013-11-19 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting [16:51] let's not [16:51] thanks for joining [16:51] arosales: that's uds [16:51] thanks arosales [16:51] hallyn_, ah good point [16:51] nov 26? [16:51] #action arosales send email to server list to cancel Nov 19 server meeting in liu of UDS [16:51] ACTION: arosales send email to server list to cancel Nov 19 server meeting in liu of UDS [16:52] nov 26 may collide with us holidy too [16:52] eeeeh, maybe. i'll be here. misses by 2 days. [16:52] Thanksgiving may later in the week [16:53] Tuesday 2013-11-26 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting [16:53] thanks everyone [16:53] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [16:53] Meeting ended Tue Nov 12 16:53:21 2013 UTC. [16:53] Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-11-12-16.03.moin.txt [16:53] Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-11-12-16.03.html [16:53] thanks arosales === psivaa is now known as psivaa-afk === freeflying is now known as freeflying_away === freeflying_away is now known as freeflying