[00:22] <buck_> how do I update to lastest rom from ubuntu-touch on nexus 7
[00:38] <smoku> hi.  I'm working on porting to a device which kernel does not provide working /dev/console, and run-init fails on accessing it
[00:39] <smoku> should I tweak kernel config, or change /init to work with i.e. /dev/kmsg instead /dev/console ?
[00:50] <TechieElf> smoku: I suggest the latter option
[00:53] <smoku> TechieElf: I tried linking /dev/kmsg as /dev/console. run-init succeeded, and I have a shell over adb now, but I see a lot of processes crashing in dmesg/console now :/
[00:54] <TechieElf> smoku: Well unfortunately, /dev/console and /dev/kmsg aren't identical. Any crashes that you can work out though?
[00:54] <smoku> at least I'm able to read the console messages via dmesg :)
[00:56] <TechieElf> That's good. And there are no other kernel options?
[00:57] <smoku> I tried enabling framebuffer console, but then the kernel stopped booting at all :/
[00:57] <TechieElf> Hmm. What device?
[00:58] <smoku> it looks like there's something fishy about this framebuffer, as cat /dev/urandom > /dev/fb0 does nothing. I still see untouched motorola logo
[00:58] <smoku> it's motorola xt925  (msm8960)
[00:59] <TechieElf> I'm jealous. Lol. I'm starting from scratch on an xt907 port because dhacker gave up.
[01:05] <smoku> # cat /proc/cmdline
[01:05] <smoku> oops=panic console=null ...
[01:05] <smoku> lol... no wonder I had no fbcon ;-)
[01:06] <TechieElf> Nice one ;)
[01:07] <TechieElf> I could use help getting off the ground on my port if you ever have time :3
[01:10] <smoku> TechieElf, it should be similar. do you have working CM for xt907?
[01:11] <TechieElf> I don't have it flashed on my device, but I'm in the process of grabbing all the binaries and sources now
[01:13] <smoku> TechieElf, you don't need the whole CM tree. waste of bandwidth. start from ubuntu touch tree. a lot less to fetch.
[01:14] <smoku> looks like there is a working port. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/xt907
[01:15] <TechieElf> It's sort of working, except hashcode and dhacker gave up. Tweeted dhacker and he said I can take over. They didn't get to flipping the image yet so I figured I'd start over.
[01:15] <Hashcode> Gave up is so harsh of a term.
[01:16] <TechieElf> 0_0 H..h...h...hashocde?
[01:16] <Hashcode> I'd rather say, it's on the list of TODO items.. but that list is rather long.
[01:16] <TechieElf> Omg I stutter typed
[01:16] <Hashcode> Hello TechieElf
[01:16] <TechieElf> Hi there. Big fan, if that counts. I'm sure you have tons to do and I get that.
[01:17] <Hashcode> The documentation is getting better and better for how to setup the new flipped image
[01:17] <Hashcode> The only issue is that it's also quite technical at some points
[01:17] <Hashcode> (More than the original setup anyway)
[01:17] <TechieElf> I've noticed. I'm just overwhelmed by it. A lot of the terms are foreign to me.
[01:20] <smoku> Hashcode, is that normal, that trusty-preinstalled-touch-armhf.zip is still the "old" flipped build?  I see a lot of new code in /scripts/touch to mount system using img file
[01:21] <Hashcode> smoku: you can do it either way atm.
[01:21] <Hashcode> Tho the future is the mounted img file.
[01:22] <TechieElf> What I'm interested in most is getting SMS/Calling working for the XT907. Although, it's CDMA thats stopping me in my tracks.
[01:23] <Hashcode> Yeah that's kind of why we're not pursuing it atm.
[01:23] <Hashcode> GSM only atm.
[01:25] <TechieElf> Well even with GSM, calling/sms should be available ? I'm not too sure of the differences between the two
[01:29] <jorge_chile> ello
[01:29] <TechieElf> Hiya
[01:29] <jorge_chile> hello
[01:30] <jorge_chile> somebody can help me?
[01:30] <TechieElf> What's the issue?
[01:30] <jorge_chile> I have ubuntu touch on my nexus 7
[01:31] <TechieElf> Alright
[01:31] <jorge_chile> when i want update my app apper network error
[01:31] <jorge_chile> :(
[01:32] <TechieElf> Maybe you should downgrade? You can always use phablet-flash and specify an earlier image
[01:33] <jorge_chile> I use apt-get update on terminal
[01:35] <jorge_chile> the app suggested not ap appear
[01:36] <TechieElf> Hmm. I haven't used a recent build of Ubuntu Touch and I don't have a N7 so I won't be of much help.
[01:37] <TechieElf> Hashcode, is there a way to dual boot Ubuntu Touch and another ROM on Xt907?
[01:37] <smoku> BTW, removing console=/dev/null helped and run-init works fine with /dev/console now
[01:37] <TechieElf> Nice. Glad to hear
[01:39] <jorge_chile> how?
[02:03] <sr20dett> How do i tell what version of trusty I have. On 13.10 it had a version number in system settings now it just says 14.04. Im running a nexus 7 2012, flashed with phablet tools the only argument was -b
[04:45] <sr20dett> s it possible to see voltages coming in from a mic or set of headphone plugged into the 3.5 audio jack or can you only hear the audio coming out?
[04:50] <sr20dett> I want to get a voltage from a headphone after i epoxy the coil windings so they dont move or pick up sound
[05:45] <billgonzo> Hi, i have a nexus 7 and whe i install ubuntu touch it doent seem to have drivers for the tegra 4. is there any version that is optimized for this platform?
[06:41] <dholbach> good morning
[06:46] <nhaines> dholbach: good morning.  :)
[06:46] <dholbach> hi nhaines
[06:59] <nhaines> dholbach: Javascript is on my list of languages to learn, although I'm much less impressed by it than by Python.
[07:01] <dholbach> seem you're keeping yourself busy :)
[07:03] <nhaines> Yes, it's on the back burner this week because of an installfest I'm helping with on Saturday.  I'll have to jump back over to Ubuntu on my Galaxy Nexus before then.  :)
[10:17] <AskUbuntu> Unity3d game packaging service | http://askubuntu.com/q/375839
[11:17] <TechieElf> Hello all. I cant seem to get Ubuntu touch to work with Safestrap on the XT907
[11:19] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:19] <davmor2> ogra_: how we looking for a work image 21?
[11:21] <TechieElf> Hashcode: Are there any specifics to setup Ubuntu touch with Safestrap? Also, the xt907 link to download safestrap is just a link to a folder hosted on goo.im
[11:22] <tsdgeos> zsombi1: https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/ima_do_not_filter_disabled/+merge/194830
[11:26] <nerochiaro> tmoenicke: ping
[11:27] <dholbach> popey, does /system/bin/screencap currently work for you?
[11:30] <popey> dholbach: i use https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~popey/+junk/phablet-flash-wrapper/view/head:/mirfbdump
[11:30] <dholbach> ah ok
[11:31] <TechieElf> Does anyone know how to get this working with safestrap? Im trying to dual boot on my xt907
[11:33] <ogra_> davmor2, well, we need the OTA fix
[11:36] <tsdgeos> Cimi: zsombi1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1250412
[11:52] <mandel_> does any one know if  PS Jenkins is down?
[11:52] <ogra_> mandel_, see evans mails to the phone ML
[11:53] <mandel_> ogra_, I must have missed that
[11:53] <ogra_> datacenter is moving since friday
[11:55] <mandel_> ogra_, I'm very naive and though I was not to pay attention to those things :-/
[11:55] <ogra_> heh
[11:55] <mandel_> ogra_, thx for the info
[11:55] <ogra_> np
[11:56] <Soru> .
[12:12] <mamenyaka> jdstrand, ogra_ hi guys! any info on bug #1237618 and #1237998
[12:12] <asac> sergiusens: hey... what exactly are you referring to with "framework XXX" ?
[12:12] <ogra_> asac, the click package framework that we bind to for a specific cycle
[12:12] <sergiusens> asac, to what lool answered to Kaleo's question
[12:12] <asac> i dont understand what that is
[12:13] <sergiusens> asac, the set of libraries supported by a given release
[12:13] <ogra_> asac, you seriously should package an app then :)
[12:13] <sergiusens> asac, similar to the API level in android
[12:13] <asac> right
[12:13] <asac> so that should be supported forever
[12:13] <ogra_> asac, it is defined in the manifest file of your click package
[12:13] <asac> not sure why anyone even considers saying "
[12:13] <asac> 6 month at least"
[12:13] <sergiusens> asac, there are deprecation periods though
[12:14] <asac> i dont understand that either... either its an API level we released, then we should support it forever or its something we didnt release, then we can do whatever pleases us
[12:14] <ogra_> the click scope should (no idea if it does yet) only show packages to you that can work with your installed framework
[12:14] <sergiusens> asac, I'm more for a lasts forever, but then API versioning needs to happen badly; we did something similar with awe for UfA
[12:14] <asac> right. it shouldnt show stuff that requires a newer API version
[12:14] <asac> but usually all old api versions should continue to work
[12:15] <ogra_> that wont be possible ...
[12:15] <asac> sergiusens: lets take the "forever" position for now
[12:15] <asac> people need to be challenged
[12:15] <ogra_> changes in Qt will add new stuff and drop old stuff over time
[12:15] <asac> to figure this... you just can't afford to break apps every 6 month
[12:15] <didrocks> asac: FYI, I discussed that at the client sprint
[12:15] <ogra_> no way to prevent upstream from doing that
[12:15] <asac> ogra_: we should expose whole Qt APi anyway
[12:15] <asac> only exactly what we are willing to support]
[12:15] <didrocks> asac: Pat is the holder of the subject
[12:15] <ogra_> asac, but the API will change over time
[12:16] <didrocks> sergiusens: ^
[12:16] <ogra_> things get dropped, while new things get added
[12:16] <asac> ogra_: dropping things is not OK
[12:16] <sergiusens> didrocks, a the likely person to own it :-)
[12:16] <ogra_> which is the point where we need to deprecate the old API
[12:16] <asac> well, if you drop them its not deprecated
[12:17] <sergiusens> Kaleo, ^^ fyi from yesterday
[12:17] <asac> deprecated is usually a documentation state taht prominently let folks know that its going away soon
[12:17] <asac> dropped is dropped and not deprecated :)
[12:17] <sergiusens> asac, ogra_ the hud had that for a while iirc
[12:17] <Kaleo> sergiusens, :)
[12:17] <asac> had what?
[12:18] <ogra_> that
[12:18] <ogra_> :)
[12:18] <sergiusens> asac, a deprecation warning
[12:18] <asac> deprecation warnings are fine if we leave the depreaction at least for 3 years :)
[12:18] <asac> anyway
[12:18] <ogra_> ugh
[12:18] <asac> a) either its in the API
[12:19] <ogra_> that will make you end up with boated and very ugly libs over time
[12:19] <asac> b) or it is not
[12:19] <ogra_> *bloated
[12:19] <asac> a) we never add anything to the API that we dont want to support forever
[12:19] <asac> b) the fact that we just decided to add everything we have causes issues
[12:19] <ogra_> asac, we dont have control over all parts of the API
[12:19] <asac> ogra_: thats the problem
[12:19] <ogra_> only where we are upstream
[12:20] <ogra_> which means we need to be prepared for upstream to drop bits
[12:20] <asac> we should not export stuff directly if we feel we will be exposed to the moods of upstreams
[12:20] <ogra_> and our framework versioning needs to reflect this
[12:20] <sergiusens> ogra_, which sort of makes you understand why android has one massive source fork :-)
[12:20] <asac> ogra_: right. prepared means == before adding stuff, consider the fact that upstream drops it and dont add it if we are not able/willing to support it
[12:20] <asac> on our own
[12:20] <ogra_> sergiusens, yes
[12:20] <asac> point is: if you want to grow a serious app ecosystem
[12:21] <asac> you must not break them EVER
[12:21] <ogra_> asac, i doubt the current framwork was strictly designed inder that view
[12:21] <asac> out of that: you cant just ship upstream fun as the APIs for your apps :)
[12:21] <asac> -> the easy way is not often the right way
[12:21] <ogra_> *under that view
[12:21] <asac> yeah which is a problem
[12:21] <ogra_> asac, its not about easy or hard ... it is about what we have now
[12:21] <asac> imo, we have to push the reset button and get this back on track if we cant guarantee that we dont break apps
[12:22] <syed_> hi
[12:22] <asac> heeh
[12:22] <asac> well. let me do talks i guess
[12:22] <syed_> please in english
[12:22] <ogra_> asac, we need data :)
[12:22] <asac> data?
[12:22] <ogra_> asac, to know which and how many parts are pure Qt nowadays
[12:22] <syed_> 23 m
[12:22] <asac> just dont expose pure Qt
[12:22] <syed_> india
[12:23] <ogra_> and how much we have abstracted in a non intrusive way yet
[12:23] <asac> hide everything excect it was discussed at length
[12:23] <asac> except
[12:23] <ogra_> asac, seriously, you should write a OML app at least once :)
[12:23] <asac> anyway... later
[12:23] <sergiusens> asac, ogra_ as mentioned yesterday, we just need someone architecting this
[12:23] <asac> ogra_: well. i always asked frolks: is QML up to the task of providing a stable API forever
[12:23] <syed_> how to install ubuntu touch on galaxy nexus
[12:23] <asac> so far folks told me: yes, totally
[12:24] <ogra_> you will notice that we a) support upstream modules a lot and b) that our additional framework doesnt cover all pieces
[12:24] <ogra_> sergiusens, ++
[12:24] <asac> sergiusens: indeed
[12:24] <ogra_> thats what i meant with "getting data"
[12:24] <ogra_> we need someone to review it and collect the bits that need more abstraction
[12:25] <ogra_> but currently we support upstreams QtQuick for example ...
[12:25] <ogra_> no idea how far API stability goes for this
[12:25] <asac> i think we agreed that qtquick will not break api
[12:25] <asac> unless there is a major version of qt
[12:25] <ogra_> with whom ?
[12:25] <asac> e.g. qt5 to 6
[12:25] <ogra_> did upstream confirm ?
[12:25] <asac> sdk folks etc.
[12:26] <asac> well, i remember upstream saying that about the whole qt :)
[12:26]  * asac has to ask thiago who to ask
[12:26] <Chrisk_> hi, I have a task, to install ubuntu touch on my HTC ONE X
[12:26] <asac> my understanding is that qt has a strict API compatibility approach for major versions
[12:26] <asac> and a strict ABI compatibility approach for minor version
[12:26] <asac> but guess we have to check that
[12:27] <asac> i am not so much concerned about qt though... more about what we add on top :)
[12:27] <ogra_> well, that should be backwards compatible ... and its in our hands to make sure it is
[12:28] <asac> right. but i think we dont even live up to that standard (or rather dont undersatnd how to properly do that with qml)
[12:28] <asac> lets first be confident that we are at least as "good" as qt upstream... then we can question whether qt upstream is too unstable :)
[12:28] <Chrisk_> Is there an image for HTC ONE X that will work?
[12:29] <mamenyaka> hi Chrisk_, please check here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[12:29] <Chrisk_> is it updated
[12:29] <mamenyaka> Chrisk_, dunno
[12:29] <ogra_> mamenyaka, was that the cmdline options bug you were referring to above ?
[12:29] <ogra_> i'll get to that today
[12:30] <mamenyaka> ogra_, no, that bug is for the apparmor to work on my ports
[12:30] <ogra_> oh
[12:30] <mamenyaka> from last month
[12:30] <ogra_> not my area of expertise then :)
[12:30] <ogra_> jjohansen is your man
[12:31]  * ogra_ sighs about image 20
[12:31] <mamenyaka> ogra_, let me just copy-paste the conversation
[12:31] <ogra_> ERROR:phablet-flash:Backup requested but cannot be completed succesfully, try with --no-backup if data saving is not important.
[12:31] <ogra_> no OTA ... and phablet-flash falls over too all the time
[12:31] <AskUbuntu> how do i make ubuntu touch skip mintro or rotate screen on nexus 7 | http://askubuntu.com/q/375910
[12:32]  * ogra_ curses and backs up his data manually ... 
[12:32] <mamenyaka> ogra_, "<jdstrand> ogra_: mamenyaka filed bug #1237998 and wondering when someone would get to it
 jdstrand, mamenyaka, i'll try to, but no promise"
[12:33] <ogra_> mamenyaka, hmm, i cant even remember this
[12:33] <mamenyaka> ogra_, just some files that need to be included in the daily builds - here: /usr/share/apparmor/hardware/graphics.d/
[12:34] <mamenyaka> ogra_, yeah, it was a long time ago, even I totally forgot about them
[12:34] <ogra_> right, i wonder why that doesnt happen in one of the apparmor data packages
[12:34] <ogra_> but instead in the container setup package
[12:34] <mamenyaka> it was said, that it will change, but I have no information on that
[12:35]  * ogra_ will wait for jdstrand ... i think it rather belongs into apparmor 
[12:35] <ogra_> if thats not possible i can indeed pull it into lxc-android-config ... but it fells like the wrong place
[12:36] <mamenyaka> I checked the latest 1111.1 image, it has the files for the nexuses in there
[12:36] <mamenyaka> but idk
[12:36] <mamenyaka> ogra_, do you know something about moving to android 4.3, 4.4 base for trusty?
[12:37] <ogra_> the possible support for nexus5 is still not finally decided i think ...
[12:37] <ogra_> if we move on we will have to switch to 4.4
[12:37]  * ogra_ curses loudly ...
[12:37] <ogra_> INFO:phablet-flash:Booting /tmp/tmpDyzZI5/partitions/recovery.img
[12:37] <ogra_> < waiting for device >
[12:37] <ogra_> downloading 'boot.img'...
[12:38] <ogra_> what a crap
[12:38] <ogra_> (hangs there forever ... i lost all mu dogfooding data ... OTA doesnt work and phablet-flash apparently doesnt either)
[12:38] <mamenyaka> what's with that phablet-flash thingy?
[12:38] <ogra_> what a user experience
[12:39] <davmor2> ogra_: phablet-flash loses everything as far as I knew I thought there was a bug for that
[12:40] <ogra_> davmor2, that was supposed to be fixed since early trusty days
[12:40] <ogra_> sergiusens fixed it a while ago afaik
[12:40] <davmor2> ogra_: fair enough
[12:40] <ogra_> davmor2, but even with --no-backup it just hangs
[12:41] <davmor2> ogra_: it worked for me on maguro on r18 twice
[12:41] <davmor2> not tried a newer image
[12:41] <ogra_> i'm on 20
[12:41] <sergiusens> ogra_, you seem to be on an old version of phablet-tools or trying to flash from recovery
[12:41] <ogra_> or trying to get to 20
[12:42] <sergiusens> davmor2, I'm flip flopping channels like crazy; only problem with that is app configuration file stability now :-)
[12:42] <ogra_> sergiusens, yeah, after OTA trashed my device and the phablet-flash run failed twice i now try from recovery
[12:42] <sergiusens> ogasawara, how did that happen?
[12:42] <sergiusens> oops
[12:42] <ogra_> as a last resort
[12:42] <sergiusens> ogra_, ^
[12:42] <ogra_> OTA with 19 and 20 fails the signature check after download
[12:43] <sergiusens> ogra_, hmmm, that is probably something that can be improved upon, as in check all files' sigs before doing anything else
[12:43] <ogra_> so i resorted to phablet-flash ... (latest version, upgraded right before trying)
[12:43] <ogra_> that fell over doing the backup ...
[12:44] <ogra_> so i did a manual backup and now try from recovery
[12:44] <davmor2> ogra_, sergiusens: sadtrombone.com
[12:44] <ogra_> which hangs at downloading boot.img
[12:44] <sergiusens> ogra_, see, you are on an old version; it doesn't try any backup at all, it relies on the system image stuff all by itself
[12:45] <ogra_> sergiusens, 1.0+14.04.20131108-0ubuntu1
[12:45] <ogra_> as i said, upgraded right before using it
[12:45] <sergiusens> ogra_, hmmm, I wonder how it fails to backup; only reason it would do that is if system-image-cli returns 0
[12:45] <mamenyaka> ogra_, are you trying to flash boot.img?
[12:46] <ogra_> mamenyaka, i'm trying to behave like an enduser :)
[12:46] <ogra_> and use phablet-flash since the OTA didnt work
[12:46] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, phablet flash does a fastboot boot recovery.img in there
[12:46] <mamenyaka> ogra_, haha
[12:46] <mamenyaka> ogra_, but it needs to be in bootloader mode for that
[12:46] <ogra_> mamenyaka, phablet-flash cares for that
[12:46] <sergiusens> ogra_, last time you had that issue you rebooted your machine and it started to work, right?
[12:47] <ogra_> i have a giant green android on screen atm
[12:47] <mamenyaka> ogra_, then why does it fail?
[12:47]  * ogra_ checks dmesg if there are any USB errors ... i would be surpised though since backing up data worked and the phone does all it should triggered by phablet-flash 
[12:48] <mamenyaka> ogra_, on every android forum they are discouraging the use of toolkits like this
[12:48]  * ogra_ tries another USB port 
[12:49] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, why?
[12:49] <didrocks> sergiusens: not sure if that help, but grepping "backup" in phablet-flash or in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/phabletutils/*, I find no call to the function
[12:49] <ogra_> mamenyaka, well, we have no proper manual install method for system-image installs
[12:49] <mamenyaka> sergiusens, well, does it work for ogra_ ?
[12:49] <mamenyaka> a simple script would suffice
[12:49] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, he can't even do it manually
[12:49] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, as in boot a boot image
[12:49] <asac> bzoltan: hey ... http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/ is an internal server error for me
[12:49] <ogra_> sergiusens, no, idea, i havent tried anything manually
[12:50] <sergiusens> didrocks, nah, there is no backup function in phablet-flash anymore
[12:50] <ogra_> as i said, i try to behave like an enduser
[12:50] <sergiusens> ogra_, you did last time I told you to try
[12:50] <bzoltan>  asac: that is not right
[12:50] <ogra_> to see how the experience is if OTA is broken
[12:50] <ogra_> ERROR:phablet-flash:Command 'adb reboot bootloader' returned non-zero exit status 1
[12:50] <ogra_> so changing the USB port just made it worse
[12:51] <bzoltan> asac: dpm, mhall119 should be able to help with that
[12:51] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, I bet you ogra_ can't even run fastboot boot recovery.img manually
[12:51]  * ogra_ changes back 
[12:51] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, he had this issue before and a reboot of his host solved it
[12:51] <mamenyaka> sergiusens, well, not until he tries it
[12:52] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, there is no simple script for image based updates
[12:52] <ogra_> grrr ... if phablet-flash wouldnt wipe its workdirs :P
[12:52]  * ogra_ copies recovery.img out of the tmpdir this time 
[12:52] <mamenyaka> sergiusens, updates eally only should be flashing a .zip or two in recovery
[12:53] <dpm> bzoltan, asac, thanks for the heads up, trying to find out from IS what's going on
[12:53] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, you should really look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades
[12:53] <mamenyaka> like rommanager on android
[12:54] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, using zips is legacy
[12:55] <ogra_> sergiusens, seems you are right ... fastboot boot recovery.img hangs the same way
[12:55] <sergiusens> ogra_, you had this issue 1 month ago already ;-) I just remember :-)
[12:56] <ogra_> yeah, luckily my new lappie comes tomorrow
[12:56] <ogra_> sigh
[12:56] <mamenyaka> ogra_, do you have the correct "fastboot devices" output?
[12:56] <sergiusens> ogra_, is this on the chromebook or desktop?
[12:56] <ogra_> sergiusens, chromebook
[12:57] <ogra_> mamenyaka, no idea, i cant even ctrl-c the fastboot command now
[12:57] <mamenyaka> ogra_, just fire up a new terminal and shoot
[12:57] <ogra_> 0149CBF011006012	fastboot
[12:57] <ogra_> all fine
[12:57] <mamenyaka> yep
[12:58] <ogra_> well, i'll try the same later on my desktop
[12:58] <ogra_> should work there
[12:58]  * ogra_ is really looking forward to the day we drop the unstable low end crap 
[12:58] <ogra_> (my mako never had any issues even on the chromebook)
[12:59] <sergiusens> ogra_, low end as in maguro?
[12:59] <ogra_> yeah
[13:00] <ogra_> well, low end as in "falls over if you touch the phone" and such stuff :)
[13:00] <sergiusens> ogra_, well it is barely usable, I'll give you that
[13:00] <sergiusens> ogra_, I need to buy a new phone soon or I'll go crazy with mir :-)
[13:00] <mamenyaka> sergiusens, well, this image based upgrade system looks interesting
[13:00] <mamenyaka> what limitations does dpkg and have?
[13:01] <mamenyaka> and apt*
[13:01] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, that's what everyone should be using
[13:01] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, it's slow and it can break
[13:01] <ogra_> i really want us to support 512M dualcore devices ... but seeing how much breakage we get with maguro i'll happily see it go
[13:01] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, not a problem on desktop;
[13:01] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, image based upgrades also care for deltas
[13:01] <davmor2> ogra_: Wimp
[13:02] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, I think stgraber was going to eventually post how to build your own upgrade server
[13:02] <mamenyaka> well, on my tablet apt works ok
[13:02] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, once you move to the other system you really don't want to go back ;-)
[13:02] <sergiusens> mamenyaka, as an end user that is; for development apt/dpkg are still valuable
[13:02] <mamenyaka> sergiusens, we'll see, but first I think that there are more important thigs to worry about
[13:04] <mamenyaka> is the sleep/wake fixed in newer builds?
[13:04] <mamenyaka> I tried it like a week ago on my mako, and the device didn't wake
[13:12] <dpm> asac, bzoltan http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/ is back
[13:13] <xnox> cd
[13:14] <sergiusens> xnox, ~$
[13:15] <asac> dpm: thx
[13:15] <asac> bzoltan: is http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/ everything that a QML developer can use?
[13:20] <bzoltan> asac: The UITK is here http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/UbuntuUserInterfaceToolkit.overview-ubuntu-sdk/
[13:20] <bzoltan> asac:  but generally saying, yes the API set is what is there
[13:21] <ogra_> dpm, bzoltan how about plugins like the browser plugin ?
[13:22] <ogra_> finding any docs for that seems impossible
[13:22] <ogra_> (i guess there are more, but for that particular one i had to read the source to find out what it can do)
[13:22] <dpm> oSoMoN, do we have any API documentation for the browser plugin? ^^
[13:24] <bzoltan> ogra_: these are plugin types available on the image -> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6405267/
[13:24] <ogra_> bzoltan, right. the documentation lackas a bunch of them
[13:25] <ogra_> *lacks
[13:25] <bzoltan> ogra_: the qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-extras-browser-plugin is packaged separate from the UITK
[13:26] <ogra_> well, it is installed (and afaik used by a bunch of apps already ... people even blogged about using them)
[13:26] <bzoltan> ogra_:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6405283/
[13:29] <ogra_> bzoltan, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-touch.trusty/view/head:/sdk-libs ... thats our defined framework ... imho all these bits and pieces need to be documented
[13:29] <bzoltan> ogra_: i agree
[13:29] <ogra_> (intestinngly the browser plugin isnt listed there ... we should move it over)
[13:30] <lool> ogra_, bzoltan: I thought ui-extras were not too stable / good bindings?
[13:31] <lool> e.g. qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-extras0.1 says some components can't be included in SDK due to quality issues
[13:31] <bzoltan>  lool: I pay little attention for what is going in the so called extras. I suggested long time ago to stop using extras and integrate properly everything to the UITK
[13:31] <ogra_> lool, that doesnt prevent people from using them if installed ...
[13:31] <lool> or perhaps you guys mean these should still be on developer.u.c, with suitable warnings
[13:31] <ogra_> yes
[13:31] <lool> ogra_: well then they will break if they change
[13:32] <ogra_> we should at least have functional documentation for the pieces we ship
[13:32] <ogra_> (with appropriate warnings)
[13:52] <lool> barry, mandel_: So I'm getting this 115% download; also download % goes down at the beginning of the download, and the download fails in the end; I think this got reported on maguro, I also get it on mako; are you guys on top of this one?
[13:52] <lool> seemingly it breaks updates; I'll try a 3rd time though
[13:53] <lool> I guess the download % go down each time a new file size is known
[13:54] <lool> failed 3 times now
[13:54] <lool> I guess system-image-cli -b 0 would do a full and might work
[13:57] <ogra_> lool, bug 1250181
[13:58] <ogra_> lool, barry and mandel_ started looking into it yesterday already
[14:00] <ogra_> lool, there was one image rollback on the server (17 was massively broken, so 15 was rolled  forward into becoming 18 to not break peoples phones)
[14:01] <ogra_> lool, but according to stgraber everyything on the server side is ok, he checked several times yesterday ... the assumption was that it exposes a bug in s-i or the download-manager that wasnt triggered before
[14:01] <dholbach> dpm, mhall119: what do you think about https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg05078.html?
[14:01] <oSoMoN> dpm, re- documentation for the browser plugin, no, not yet
[14:03] <jdstrand> ogra_: re 1237618 and 1237998> this was discussed on ubuntu-devel and in bug #1197133, those files should be in lxc-android-config
[14:04] <jdstrand> ogra_: I have a todo to take the existing ones we have and move them out of apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu and into lxc-android-config
[14:04] <ogra_> jdstrand, ah, ok, i was missing context ... thanks for clearifying
[14:05] <jdstrand> ogra_: I had done all the work creating the directories, shuffling things around, adjusting policy, etc for the existing ones, but due to the timing of the release, I didn't move them out of the package yet
[14:05] <ogra_> right, thats why i forgot about it too
[14:05] <jdstrand> but, the directories are there-- those two bugs aren't blocked on my doing my thing
[14:05]  * ogra_ has a bunch of pending stuff to do for port support
[14:05]  * jdstrand nods
[14:06] <jdstrand> ogra_: I also updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting
[14:07] <ogra_> jdstrand, thx !
[14:07] <jdstrand> np
[14:29] <mhall119> dholbach: I agree with Kaleo, I think we'll want to have it separate from the release schedule
[14:29] <dholbach> cool
[14:31] <mhall119> didrocks: ping
[14:31] <didrocks> mhall119: pong
[14:32] <mhall119> didrocks: do you need the push notifications at 6pm thursday, or do you just need it move out of where it currently it?  I want to move it into one of the appdev rooms
[14:33] <didrocks> mhall119: I'm happy to have it in appdev rooms for that one
[14:33] <didrocks> it doesn't really makes sense for client track
[14:33] <mhall119> ok, dpm, popey and I will be discussing our sessions and re-arranging them
[14:33] <didrocks> the rest does though :)
[14:33] <mhall119> didrocks: agreed, it was originally created as client-1311-, but I changed it
[14:34] <didrocks> mhall119: ok :) you are taking care of the other requests?
[14:35] <mhall119> didrocks: I will, yes
[14:35] <didrocks> thanks!
[14:35] <mhall119> np
[14:40] <mterry> bfiller, is ubuntu-keyboard compiling fine these days?
[14:40] <bfiller> mterry: seems to be, but not sure since jenkins has been down
[14:42] <mterry> bfiller, ah fair
[14:42] <bfiller> mterry: I saw you added the -a or whatever that arg was, hopefully that fixed it
[14:43] <mterry> bfiller, maybe...
[14:45] <julio> hola como estan
[14:45] <julio> idioma español
[14:46] <julio> hello,..
[14:46] <julio> i need help
[14:47] <davmor2> julio: it's best to just ask your question then people can help out if they can
[15:15] <robotfuel> are there tests for the phablet-test-run app?
[15:21] <zoopster> trying to run a web app I created - runs fine in qt creator, but when I use ^f12 to deply it, I get a bash error and it never opens on the device...how can I troubleshoot it?
[15:22] <cwayne_> stgraber, ping
[15:22] <barry> stgraber, ogra_, mandel_ i have a hypothesis: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-image/+bug/1250181/comments/6
[15:23] <stgraber> cwayne_: pong
[15:24] <cwayne_> stgraber, how difficult would it be to have trusty-customized pull a trusty-sevilerow tarball, and saucy-customized pull a saucy-sevilerow tarball?  i imagine i'd just need to create new jobs, right?
[15:24] <mandel_> barry, oh my! that could be the reason!!!!
[15:25] <barry> mandel_: fingers crossed!
[15:25] <mandel_> barry, u-d-m does check the local file system, but not other downloads!
[15:25] <stgraber> cwayne_: trivial
[15:25] <ogra_> barry, ouch ... thoough the server shouldnt have  the file twice in the first place, no ?
[15:25] <mandel_> barry, a group download should not allow you to do that, if a path is given twice, we raise an error
[15:25] <stgraber> cwayne_: right, just give me two URLs and I'll change the config on the server
[15:25] <barry> mandel_: should be easy enough to de-dup on my side, but of course udm will want to be fixed too
[15:25] <cwayne_> stgraber, wonderful, i'll get that setup, thank you :)
[15:26] <mandel_> barry, yes, I can get a fix quite fast
[15:26] <mandel_> barry, AWESOME debugging!
[15:26] <barry> ogra_: i obviously never thought it -- stgraber will have to weigh in on that
[15:26] <cwayne_> stgraber, also, do you know how long we keep published images?  i.e., how long will the last stable saucy image ( i think it's still 100) be available?
[15:26] <barry> mandel_: i think that makes sense; it's consistent with what happens if the file already exists
[15:27] <mandel_> barry, yes, ad I prefer a dbus error than a corrupted file
[15:27] <barry> mandel_: that's what makes building skyscrapers with sticks and pointed rocks so much fun :)
[15:27] <cwayne_> dpm, ping
[15:27] <stgraber> cwayne_: we keep a fixed number of images per channel, the customized channels each keep the last 15 images
[15:28] <mandel_> barry, I'll do the fix for lp:ubuntu-download-manager/saucy so we can have that asap and then will merge to trunk too
[15:28] <stgraber> barry: hmm, so that's 15 to 20 on manta, let me try and do the client's work by hand to see what's going on
[15:28] <barry> stgraber: correct
[15:29] <barry> mandel_: sounds good.  if this pans out, i suspect i'll have to do an sru for saucy also
[15:31] <dpm> hi cwayne_
[15:32] <barry> w00t!
[15:35] <stgraber> barry: ok, so there's definitely something odd in the index
[15:36] <barry> stgraber: so, it's unexpected that there are duplicate data files?
[15:36] <ogra_> stgraber, right, and whatever the fix for the bug would be we would still need to find a way server side to upgrade people to the fix
[15:37] <cwayne_> hi dpm, so as i said in my email, i'm still not seeing click's being translated, but i am seeing the ,mo files installed.  shall i reopen that other bug, or log a new one?
[15:37] <barry> ogra_: ah, right.  an sru of s-i doesn't actually help get people moving forward, although i'll bet if they -b 0 with cli it would get them past it (doesn't help with the u/i).
[15:37] <dpm> cwayne_, it might be worth opening a new one, but please double-check with kalikiana, as he was working on it
[15:37] <barry> ogra_: is it worth sru'ing a fixed s-i into saucy?
[15:38] <ogra_> barry, assuming they use the cli :)
[15:38] <barry> ogra_: exactly
[15:38] <ogra_> barry, not sure how much risk there is that saucy upgrades could break actually
[15:38] <cwayne_> kalikiana, ping
[15:38] <ogra_> lets see what stgraber comes up with
[15:38] <stgraber> barry: so apparently the revert we did on Saturday didn't trigger the generation of the right deltas at least for the device file
[15:39] <barry> ogra_: +1.  i'd rather not do the extra sru work of course, but will if it helps unblock people
[15:40] <stgraber> my best guess as to how to sort out the mess in a reliable way (since I'm not completely sure what we'd end up with if the upgrade was to succeed), is to remove the problematic deltas from the index, which will basically make any affected device do a full update instead
[15:40] <alexk> hi everyone
[15:40] <stgraber> not ideal bandwidth wise but we'll be sure that the result is correct
[15:40] <ogra_> stgraber, sounds fine
[15:40] <alexk> can anyone here point me a reference for developing apps for Ubuntu Touch?
[15:40] <ogra_> better than having to force people to cmdline or some such
[15:41] <ogra_> alexk, developer.ubuntu.com ?
[15:41] <mandel_> barry, I have a fix already, running the tests to ensure it works and will push it
[15:41] <mandel_> barry, could you give it a go?
[15:41] <ogra_> alexk, there is also an #ubuntu-app-devel IRC channel
[15:41] <barry> stgraber: correctness first :)  a server-side fix will obviate the need for an sru and with the safe-guard in s-i and udm this shouldn't hit us later, although it's an interesting though whether s-i *should* perform the upgrade if it detects duplicate files in the download list
[15:41] <alexk> thanks ogra_
[15:41] <alexk> i was concerned about any differences that may pop up
[15:42] <barry> mandel_: yep, but let me test my fix on my device first.  then i'll back it out and try your fix once it's pushed.  i'll have to write some tests before i can commit my change, but live testing is sometimes useful first :)
[15:44] <stgraber> ogra_, barry: done
[15:44] <ogra_> ok. lemme try my broken maguro
[15:44] <stgraber> I removed the 17 => 18 and 18 => 19 deltas as those looked wrong, the rest seems reasonable
[15:44] <lool> stgraber: did you keep a backup?
[15:44] <lool> stgraber: I'm not sure we want that right now actually
[15:45] <ogra_> stgraber, hmm
[15:45] <lool> stgraber: as we want to test the fix for this particular situation
[15:45] <ogra_> my phone tells me it downloads r17 atm
[15:45] <kalikiana> cwayne_: that underscore… no wonder I didn't spot you earlier :-D I wanted to ask you if you have an easily hackable click app to verify the translations setup. the branch has been stuck for so long I forgot most of how I tried to test it by now
[15:45] <ogra_> stgraber, did you actually roll back 20 to be 17 now ?
[15:45] <stgraber> lool: no, I got the file off of disk as I don't want a similar bug to ever re-use those
[15:45] <stgraber> ogra_: no
[15:45] <barry> lool, stgraber right, please keep the borked server files at least for manta :)
[15:45] <mandel_> barry, sure, no problem
[15:46] <ogra_> stgraber, hmm, it is also only 100M
[15:46] <lool> stgraber: can we restore them for some hours or at for some devices or something?
[15:46] <stgraber> lool: but I know how to reproduce the problem at least
[15:46] <lool> barry: you have *manta*?
[15:46] <barry> lool: i do
[15:46] <lool> geez
[15:46] <lool> you have large pockets!
[15:46] <ogra_> lool, why would you restore any of these, they all dont boot
[15:46] <lool> ogra_: to verify the client fixes from mandel and barry
[15:47] <ogra_> lool, but you will end up with an unbootable device after the upgrade
[15:47] <stgraber> lool: the client fix is pretty easy to test, publish two bogus images with the same file names, no need to keep a broken server for that
[15:47] <lool> barry, stgraber: Perhaps we should just assemble some minimal set of files to reproduce $somewhere (temp channel?) as to take the time to confirm the client changes help, and as to fix the public channels for others
[15:47] <cwayne> kalikiana, :D sorry, didn't realize i had the _
[15:47] <barry> ogra_: really?  duplicate data files on the client will make it unbootable?
[15:48] <cwayne> kalikiana, i've just been testing with the preinstalled clicks (like calendar, clock, etc)
[15:48] <stgraber> barry: no, but the broken files on the server would have
[15:48] <stgraber> or may have
[15:48] <ogra_> barry, no, the reason we ended up with the mess on the server was that we had to roll back a few images that had a breakage in the initrd
[15:48] <ogra_> barry, so we dont want anyone to get 17-19
[15:49]  * ogra_ reboots the maguro in the hope it will pick up 20 this time
[15:49] <lool> barry, mandel: do you know how to reassemble the broken setup to test the client fixes?
[15:50] <stgraber> ogra_: I'm booting my grouper here
[15:50] <barry> stgraber, ogra_ i see.  the question is whether duplicate data files should be considered a fatal error or not.  right now, i can ignore the dups and carry on as if nothing's wrong, but if a dup condition exists, should we raise some kind of fatal error and refuse to upgrade?  the user can't fix anything, but at least the error would be reported
[15:50] <ogra_> trying again
[15:50] <barry> lool: no, not really
[15:50] <stgraber> ogra_: when missing a delta path the client is supposed to just do a full update, if it doesn't, then we have another problem on our hands
[15:51] <ogra_> well, if system-settings would react to my taps now
[15:51] <stgraber> barry: so I think it should be an error, you either get a full update which is made of just 3-4 files or you get a set of deltas, but as deltas are chained, they should never be the same twice
[15:51] <ogra_> hmpf
[15:52] <barry> stgraber: ah, that is another possible outcome.  if we detect duplicate data files, we can chuck all the deltas and do a re-calc of the upgrade path as if --filter=full
[15:52] <ogra_> i'm not able to make system-settings do anything
[15:52] <barry> stgraber: so we have 3 possible outcomes
[15:52] <ogra_> it simply doesnt react
[15:52] <ogra_> :(
[15:52] <stgraber> ogra_: system-image-cli -n
[15:52] <barry> 1) fail; 2) ignore dups; 3) re-calc --filter=full
[15:52] <ogra_> stgraber, i'd like to go the enduser path :)
[15:52] <barry> ogra_: s-i 2.0 is going to be so beautiful :)
[15:52] <stgraber> ogra_: yeah but -n will at least tell you what's wrong
[15:53] <stgraber> barry: I think 1) is best here, if we have that kind of problem in our indexes we want to know about it
[15:53] <ogra_> stgraber, well, i'm rebooting again, the settings app worked before th last reboot
[15:54] <stgraber> ogra_: I'm trying to convince my grouper to boot but it seems unhappy with life at the moment...
[15:54] <cwayne> kalikiana, and any help you'd need re: click translations be sure to let me know, i'm happy to help test or try stuff out :)
[15:57] <lool> barry, stgraber: Yeah, it's fair enough to raise this as a server side error on the client
[15:58] <kalikiana> cwayne: it would be nice to verify the environment variables for starters. I was just looking to use an existing click app and hack it a bit but it's not as simple as I thought… and I cannot modify anything installed on the device for testing it seems
[15:58] <barry> stgraber, lool, ogra_ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-image/+bug/1250181/comments/7
[15:58] <kalikiana> even sudo doesn't let me edit .desktop files
[15:58] <cwayne> kalikiana, you can touch /userdata/.writable-image then reboot
[15:58] <kalikiana> cwayne: now I'm confused. this is for *click* not /usr
[15:59] <cwayne> right
[15:59] <cwayne> ah, they should be writable, that's right
[15:59] <lool> barry: there seemed to be various client issues in either download manager or in system-image too: the percentage computation is somehow wrong
[16:00] <kalikiana> oh could there be click packages in the read only image? I didn't consider that
[16:00] <kalikiana> lemme try
[16:00] <ogra_> stgraber, sigh, now my wlan doesnt connect anymore ...
[16:00] <barry> lool: right, mandel_ is aware of that.  it's a udm issue, although it very well could be related to this. si just passes the progress signals through.
[16:01] <lool> ogra_: Hmm this hit me yesterday on mako, had to turn off wifi and on again
[16:01] <barry> so let's fix this problem and see if the percentages sort themselves out
[16:01] <lool> not sure why
[16:01] <davmor2> ogra_: man you should join QA :D
[16:01] <barry> well, if you're downloading a file twice, your download bytes count will probably continue to increase, but your total may not
[16:01] <barry> but that's just a guess.  mandel_ will have to weigh in on that
[16:02] <ogra_> stgraber, ok, 5 reboots later it works again and i still get r17
[16:02] <mandel_> lool, barry it is related to the upgrade bug, working a fix on it to be easy to SRU
[16:03] <stgraber> barry: any idea why the upgrader wants to update to 17 instead of 20?
[16:03] <stgraber> barry: since 17 is non-bootable, it's quite critical that we figure this out now
[16:03] <ogra_> stgraber, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6406013/
[16:03] <barry> stgraber: unknown, let me see what my device does
[16:04] <ogra_> Upgrade path is 15:16:17
[16:04] <ogra_> seems slightly wrong i guess
[16:04] <cwayne> kalikiana, i think i can edit them here, want me to try anything out in specific?
[16:04] <barry> --filter=full does bump it to 20
[16:04] <lool> mandel_: Do we really need to SRU this?  wont updates from saucy avoid the deltas now that they have been removed?  also wont it be a full anyway?
[16:05] <stgraber> barry: sure but as the latest image is 20 and there's no delta path, the client should figure out it needs a full on its own
[16:05] <kalikiana> cwayne: after touching it still insists "/usr/share/click/preinstalled/.click/users/@all/" be Read-only file system
[16:05] <kalikiana> cwayne: I was going to put "env" in the Exec of clock-app to verify its environment variables
[16:06] <kalikiana> qtcreator is too smart and doesn't use my desktop file at all so that's not an option
[16:07] <mandel_> lool, well, I'm doing the MP against the lp:ubuntu-download-manager/saucy branch to ensure that we do not need to land trunk
[16:07] <mandel_> lool, SRU or not, I'm not in to much trouble
[16:07]  * lool retries an upgrade
[16:07]  * mandel_ urgent erranss
[16:07] <lool> estimated size is much smaller (103M instead of 260M)
[16:07] <cwayne> kalikiana, i just ssh'd in and ran env, it looks like LANGUAGE is properly set, but LC_(everything) is still en_US.UTF-8
[16:07] <mandel_> errands
[16:07] <cwayne> not sure that is relevant or not
[16:07] <barry> stgraber: are image 16 and 17 essentially empty?
[16:07] <lool> I guess it's an older image
[16:07] <ogra_> lool, what version does it give you ?
[16:07] <lool> r17
[16:07] <ogra_> rtight, thats wrong
[16:07] <ogra_> same issue i have
[16:07] <lool> download succeeded
[16:08] <stgraber> barry: no, they're essentially broken (won't boot due to broken udev)
[16:08]  * lool installs
[16:08] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6406013/
[16:08] <ogra_> lool, dint !!!!
[16:08] <ogra_> *dont
[16:08] <lool> too late
[16:08] <stgraber> lool: it won't boot
[16:08] <lool> good!
[16:08] <ogra_> you will be stuck in the initrd emergency shell
[16:08] <barry> stgraber: upgrade candidate path scores:
[16:08] <barry> 	[ 257] -> 16:17
[16:08] <barry> 	[ 256] -> 19:20
[16:08] <barry> 	[ 208] -> 17
[16:08] <barry> 	[ 207] -> 18
[16:08] <barry> 	[ 205] -> 20
[16:08] <barry> 	[   3] -> 16:17
[16:08] <barry>  
[16:08] <lool> so why do we still have 17 and whatever other image downloadable from system-image.u.c?
[16:08] <barry> stgraber: so client is seeing two upgrade paths 16:17
[16:09] <barry> stgraber: and the score==3 is lowest, so it wins
[16:09] <cwayne> kalikiana, also looks like TEXTDOMAINDIR is not set, not sure if that matters
[16:09] <barry> but that would likely only happen if there's a 16->17 upgrade path that has very small or zero sized data files
[16:09] <barry> or no reboots
[16:09] <stgraber> barry: we've never set the reboot flag so far
[16:10] <stgraber> barry: and the index only lists a single 16:17 upgrade path
[16:10] <stgraber> which is around 50MB large
[16:10] <lool> stgraber: should we just remove all deltas that might lead to any of the broken images, and either compute new deltas skipping these, or just let the client pull a full?
[16:10] <kalikiana> cwayne: the important ones are LANG, LANGUAGE, XDG_DATA_HOME - can you tell me the values of these?
[16:10] <ogra_> lool, i thought that happened already
[16:10] <stgraber> barry: but my real question is wth does the client even want to update to 17 when the current latest is 20 and the only way to get there is through a full update
[16:10] <lool> IIUC we just removed the broken deltas that didn't make any sense
[16:11] <stgraber> ogra_: no, I removed the broken deltas, no the deltas to broken builds
[16:11] <stgraber> ogra_: so the broken images are 16 and 17 right?
[16:11] <ogra_> 16-19
[16:12] <barry> stgraber: because there's a path leading through 16:17.  the scoring algorithm does take into account the distance from the highest build number, but that only leaves a score of 3, which is why i asked about zero sizes and no reboots
[16:12] <barry> i.e. 20-17 == 3
[16:12] <lool> ogra_: phablet-flash ubuntu-system --channel devel-proposed to recover?
[16:12] <stgraber> barry: there isn't
[16:12] <stgraber> barry: there's a path to 17 but not path from 17 to 18
[16:12] <cwayne> kalikiana, LANG and LANGUAGE are properly set
[16:12] <stgraber> barry: so the only way to go to 20 is with a full
[16:12] <cwayne> XDG_DATA_HOME isn't set in env, but i think its in initctl list-env
[16:13] <barry> stgraber: it wouldn't have to be zero size, but the actual rule is: total download size - add 1 for every 1MiB over the smallest image.
[16:13] <kalikiana> cwayne: I looked at the 'env' in 'su l- phablet' here but it's definitely not reflecting locale even though I see localization in the dash, indicators and settings
[16:13] <barry> stgraber: so likely this 16:17 path is the smallest upgrade
[16:13] <stgraber> barry: ok, let me do some more removals to try and fix the mess for now, then we'll mumble ;)
[16:13] <barry> ;)
[16:13] <kalikiana> cwayne: so my assumption is click apps must be having a different env
[16:14] <cwayne> kalikiana, im seeing the right LANG and LANGUAGE when ssh'ing in and running env
[16:14] <cwayne> and also when running initctl list-env
[16:14] <stgraber> ogra_: so I'm going to remove images 16, 17, 18 and 19 as well as any delta related to those
[16:14] <ogra_> perfect
[16:14]  * lool goes making some tea while the phone reinstalls
[16:15] <kalikiana> so I'm using the wrong one of the 100 ways to get a shell afterall… this is annoying
[16:15] <barry> stgraber: is there any way you can recreate the original problem, at least for manta.  can even be in a 'borked-dont-use-me' channel
[16:16] <stgraber> ogra_: can you confirm -n now says it'll do a full update?
[16:16] <kalikiana> cwayne: so it seems 'env' via qtc ssh gets me sensible LANG and LANGUAGE but not XDG_DATA_HOME which would equal to files not being found inside the click package
[16:17] <cwayne> kalikiana, this seems like a bug in upstart-app-launch then?
[16:17] <cwayne> sergiusens, ^
[16:18] <kalikiana> is there a way to locally hack the variables that get defined?
[16:18] <sergiusens> cwayne, edit to to print env (upstart-app-launch)
[16:19] <sergiusens> cwayne, that's tedg's thing though; and that eventually calls aa-exec which is jdstrand's
[16:19] <tedg> sergiusens, It doesn't call aa-exec :-)
[16:19] <jdstrand> actually, it is aa-exec-click, and upstart-app-launch doesn't call it :)
[16:19] <sergiusens> tedg, not even indirectly?
[16:20] <jdstrand> aa-exec-click is only used for non-Unity8 DEs
[16:20] <tedg> sergiusens, No, we use the apparmor support that is baked into Upstart
[16:20] <sergiusens> ah, right
[16:20] <barry> stgraber: we could tweak the scoring algorithm to be something like: + (max-target) x 1000 which will almost always leave you at the highest upgrade image.  it probably means the other scoring variables will almost never have an effect, and i shudder at the tests i will have to change ;)
[16:20] <ogra_> stgraber, yay, got 15 this time
[16:21] <barry> stgraber:
[16:21] <cwayne> tedg, ah, so what's the easiest way to check that the env is properly set in u-a-l?
[16:21] <barry> 	[   0] -> 20
[16:21] <barry>  
[16:21] <ogra_> and r20 in the next run :)
[16:22] <stgraber> ogra_: ok, that's still stupid and wrong but at least it won't break your device :)
[16:22] <ogra_> yeah
[16:23] <ogra_> well, 14-15 was only 18M
[16:23] <stgraber> barry: mumble?
[16:23] <ogra_> 20 is a full whopping 296M now
[16:23] <stgraber> right, that one was expected :)
[16:23] <lool> ERROR:phablet-flash:Backup requested but cannot be completed succesfully, try with --no-backup if data saving is not important.
[16:23] <barry> stgraber: sure. i need a few minutes.  will meet you on mumble
[16:24] <stgraber> barry: ok
[16:24] <lool> sergiusens: Getting a backup error (above), but didn't request a backup and I think it's deprecated anyway; is this a bug, or something that failed here but didn't trigger an error message?
[16:24] <lool> perhaps the amount of stuff to backup is too large for /tmp
[16:24] <sergiusens> lool, you are in recovery I presume
[16:24] <lool> sergiusens: correct
[16:25] <sergiusens> lool, I'm having phablet flash behave like a system-image-cli but downloading/using assets from the host
[16:25] <sergiusens> lool, just use bootstrap; backup works if system-image-cli returns a build > 0
[16:25] <lool> sergiusens: wont bootstrap kill my data?
[16:26] <ogra_> lool, yeah, but its your data, not his :P
[16:26] <ogra_> lool, backup only works in a fully booted system ... nozt from recovery
[16:27] <lool> so what's the recovery path when your upgrade fails, but you want to keep your data?
[16:27] <ogra_> copy data manyually via adb ?
[16:27] <lool> or should I just force --no-backup because it's miscomputer?
[16:27] <ogra_> i dont think we have any sane solution
[16:27] <lool> *miscomputed
[16:28] <ogra_> we simply shouldnt release updates that can break i thionk
[16:28] <lool> well sometimes upgrades will fail
[16:28] <ogra_> and in fact the breakage is in the staging channel ...
[16:28] <lool> like if I run out of juice before writing the full update
[16:29] <lool> not something we should optimize for, but that's where flashing locally should come to rescue
[16:29] <ogra_> so we should check the battery status before offering reboot&install
[16:29] <lool> sure, that's one more safeguard
[16:30] <ogra_> we can surely work out something to do a backup from recovery ... with a tool that mounts the right bits and pieces and adb's them over
[16:30] <ogra_> but i think that should be rather low prio
[16:30] <sergiusens> ogra_, lool, the problem with backing up from recovery and/or a booted ubuntu is that all our mountpoints change
[16:30] <ogra_> not urgently 14.04 material
[16:31] <lool> sergiusens: but hold on, isn't backup deprecated anyway?
[16:31] <lool> sergiusens: Shouldn't /home be preserved unless I do a bootstrap?
[16:31] <ogra_> lool, it was reintroduced after people lost their data
[16:31] <sergiusens> lool, everything in system image writable is preserved
[16:31] <ogra_> lool, i.e. people using pahblet-flash to do OTA upgrade like upgrades etc
[16:31] <sergiusens> ogra_, lool don't get confused, nothing has been readded
[16:31] <ogra_> oh ?
[16:32] <lool> so ./phablet-flash ubuntu-system --channel devel-proposed -d mako --no-backup should work and not lose any data, right?
[16:32] <ogra_> i thought you added backup to upgrades
[16:32] <sergiusens> ogra_, lool image phablet-flash just doing a system-image-cli -b 0...
[16:32] <sergiusens> ogra_, no, I'm behaving like an image based upgrade client
[16:32]  * lool tries that
[16:32] <ogra_> ah so you dropped the bootstrapping, ok
[16:33] <sergiusens> ogra_, no, bootstrapping is there and it modifies ubuntu_command to format the partitions
[16:33] <ogra_> but not the userdata one ?
[16:33] <sergiusens> ogra_, no, that' actually never been formatted
[16:33] <ogra_> how do you preserve user data ?
[16:33] <ogra_> ah !
[16:33] <ogra_> ok, that was the missing puzzle piece
[16:34] <sergiusens> ogra_, if you --bootstrap it is though! but not formatted, wiped instead
[16:34] <ogra_> yeah
[16:36] <lool> sergiusens: would it make sense to make --no-backup the defaul?
[16:36] <sergiusens> lool, no
[16:36] <lool> sergiusens: what does it backup more?
[16:37] <sergiusens> lool, hmmm
[16:37] <lool> sergiusens: or turn it on just for the bootstrap case?
[16:37] <sergiusens> lool, ok. bare with me and don't let other people
[16:37] <sergiusens> people's comments influence you :-)
[16:37] <lool> sergiusens: This is not influenced by anyone  :-)
[16:37]  * ogra_ puts duct tape over his mouth
[16:37] <lool> sergiusens: I broke my boot, I just want to reinstall from recovery
[16:38] <lool> sergiusens: ./phablet-flash ubuntu-system --channel devel-proposed -d mako didn't work, failed to take a backup from recovery; I'm trying to fix this use case
[16:38] <lool> it seems to me nowadays taking a backup is useless unless one bootstraps
[16:38] <sergiusens> lool, if you are on an ubuntu upgradeable system; phablet-flash detects that and behaves like a system-image-cli but downlaods assets to your host and then copies them over and writes the proper ubuntu_commands
[16:38] <sergiusens> lool, you can switch channels all you want without losing data
[16:39] <sergiusens> lool, if you want it wiped, you would run the same with --bootstrap (which would be usefule in the case where the build returned is 0 which means you are not on an ubuntu upgradeable system such as cdimage-touch)
[16:39] <sergiusens> or that you are on a system that has no ubuntu at all
[16:39] <lool> sergiusens: neither of these is my case though
[16:39] <sergiusens> lool, being in recovery is like _not_ being in ubuntu
[16:39] <lool> sergiusens: I'm in recovery because the upgrade broke my boot
[16:40] <lool> I guess it's comparable to a broken upgrade
[16:40] <sergiusens> lool, so you have to --bootstrap
[16:40] <lool> but bootstrap wipes all data
[16:40] <sergiusens> lool, but given what I said above, I would not make --boostrap the default
[16:40] <lool> sergiusens: I'm not speaking of --bootstrap
[16:40] <lool> sergiusens: I'm speaking of --backup
[16:40] <lool> sergiusens: --backup fails from recovery and is useless *unless* you're --bootstraping
[16:40] <sergiusens> lool, --no-backup == --bootstrap
[16:40] <lool> seriously
[16:41] <sergiusens> lool, given that there is no promised interface stability for when in recovery I can't do a reliable backup from there
[16:41] <lool> sergiusens: but I dont want a backup......
[16:41] <lool> now I've lost my data, great
[16:42] <sergiusens> lool, I don't understand; you do or you don't?
[16:42] <lool> sergiusens: I dont want a tarball backup, but I want the system-image userdata to be preserved
[16:42] <sergiusens> lool, you can't automatically from recovery; but do you or don't you want your backup?
[16:42] <lool> I want my data to be preserved *on the device* I dont want to extract all files from the device into the host then push it back
[16:43] <sergiusens> lool, hmmm, I can think of a fix for that with a flag saying you are already on a system image
[16:43] <cwayne> tedg, should upstart-app-launch maybe be setting the LANG and LANGUAGE?
[16:43] <sergiusens> lool, the problem is detecting if you are on a system image from recovery contrary to an android image or a cdimage-touch image
[16:44] <lool> sergiusens: a special flag would be fine
[16:44] <ogra_> sergiusens, just mount the right partition and look in /etc7system-image
[16:44] <lool> sergiusens: something like --reinstall
[16:44] <lool> grmpf
[16:44] <sergiusens> lool, ok, let me add that
[16:44] <sergiusens> ogra_, that's not a promised interface
[16:44] <kalikiana> cwayne: jdstrand: sergiusens: tedg: I now filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart-app-launch/+bug/1250546 if that's the wrong component feel free to move it
[16:44] <lool> I should have mounted stuff manually to allow the backup to work
[16:44] <sergiusens> ogra_, not going to work with non reliable APIs anymore
[16:44] <ogra_> sergiusens, it is what system-image-cli uses
[16:44] <mhall119> Kaleo: ping
[16:44] <sergiusens> ogra_, it uses it, but it's not reliable
[16:44] <ogra_> but your call though
[16:45] <lool> well, I've lost a couple of GPG key pictures I wont sign then!
[16:45] <lool> less work
[16:45] <sergiusens> ogra_, it's a private interface for all I know
[16:45] <cwayne> kalikiana, ok, if i initctl set-env XDG_DATA_HOME to the click dir and then launch it with upstart-app-launch it's at least *more* translated
[16:45] <sergiusens> ogra_, we already had this issue with the recovery.img changing
[16:45] <sergiusens> lool, give me a second and I'll create a branch for you to try
[16:46] <tedg> kalikiana, How did you verify that?  With SSH?
[16:46] <kalikiana> tedg: yes
[16:46] <tedg> kalikiana, I'm confused, ssh doesn't run under upstart-app-launch
[16:46] <ogra_> tedg, aah uses pam
[16:46] <kalikiana> tedg: well see above I didn't find a better way and cannot edit anything in the click packages
[16:46] <ogra_> *ssh
[16:46] <cwayne> tedg, i just commented on the bug as well
[16:47] <cwayne> launching an app with upstart-app-launch from ssh or adb shell doesnt show translations, unless you first initctl set-env XDG_DATA_HOME
[16:47] <kalikiana> lemme reproduce that command for the calendar
[16:47] <tedg> We can see what it sets.
[16:47] <ogra_> kalikiana, adb shell ... then sudo -u phablet -i ... that will register you with dbus and the upstart session
[16:47] <tedg> If you run the click-exec utility with debugging it'll print out what it's setting.
[16:48] <tedg> So:  $ G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all APP_ID=foo /usr/lib/*/upstart-app-launch/click-exec
[16:48] <lool> The good news is that this got me rid off that wifi network I couldn't remove
[16:49] <ogra_> ha
[16:49] <ogra_> which reminds me
[16:49] <ogra_> cyphermox, do you happen to have a bug about NM never stopping to nag you about wlan keys ?
[16:49] <cyphermox> yes
[16:49] <ogra_> ah, good
[16:49] <cyphermox> I can't remember the number though
[16:49] <ogra_> then i dont need to file one
[16:50] <Kaleo> mhall119, pong
[16:50] <kalikiana> hrm the calendar doesn't show up at all here, just white
[16:50] <cwayne> ** (process:5006): DEBUG: Setting Upstart variable 'XDG_DATA_HOME' to '/home/phablet/.local/share'
[16:50] <cwayne> tedg, i think XDG_DATA_HOME has to be set the same as APP_DIR
[16:51] <tedg> cwayne, Hmm, why?
[16:51] <cwayne> tedg, according to kalikiana, that's how it knows where to find translations
[16:52] <lool> sergiusens: preinstalled music-app click has Icon=ages/music.png; bzr has Icon=/usr/share/music-app/images/music.png; could this be the click mangling script being overzealous?
[16:52] <mhall119> Kaleo: can we combine your app dev sessions on performance and splash screens?
[16:52] <tedg> cwayne, Sounds like a broken way to find translations :-)
[16:52] <Kaleo> mhall119, into one?
[16:52] <mhall119> yeah
[16:52] <Kaleo> mhall119, sure I guess
[16:52] <Kaleo> mhall119, how long is the session?
[16:52] <mhall119> Kaleo: they're each an hour long
[16:53] <mhall119> we've run out of space in the appdev rooms, so we're trying to merge or remove sessions to make room
[16:53] <Kaleo> mhall119, ok
[16:54] <mhall119> Kaleo: can you update one of your BPs to reflect the merge, and delete the other?  Summit should get updated with teh changes automatically
[16:54] <tedg> cwayne, kalikiana, I don't mind looking at other variables, but it seems to me XDG_DATA_HOME is correct.
[16:54] <kalikiana> cwayne: tedg sorry that value is fine, I was thinking of XDG_DATA_DIRS actually which should be the "system-wide" ie click package
[16:54] <sergiusens> lool, know issue, and getting an MR in to get a new version
[16:54] <barry> stgraber: LP: #1250553
[16:55] <sergiusens> lool, something wrong that I haven't detected yet happens on the jenkins servers
[16:55] <Kaleo> mhall119, oh darn
[16:55] <Kaleo> mhall119, hmmm, ok
[16:55] <mhall119> Kaleo: or if you want to keep both BP's, I'll just remove one from the schedule
[16:55] <cwayne> kalikiana, so youre saying we should add /usr/share/click/preinstalled and /opt/click.ubuntu.com/ to XDG_DATA_DIR?
[16:55] <kalikiana> cwayne: tedg more exactly it looks for translations in both XDG_DATA_DIRS and XDG_DATA_HOME because we don't install to /usr which would be the default
[16:56] <lool> sergiusens: where's the code / mr?
[16:56] <lool> sergiusens: It looks like some kind of sed typo
[16:56] <cwayne> tedg, would that be appropriate to set?
[16:56] <tedg> kalikiana, So you think we should add the application dir the to the list of XDG_DATA_DIRS ?
[16:56] <Kaleo> mhall119, please
[16:57] <mhall119> Kaleo: which one do you want to keep on the schedule? the performance one?
[16:58] <kalikiana> cwayne: tedg yes. the code has no knowledge of exact path names, only XDG_
[16:58] <cwayne> tedg, so maybe we just append APP_DIR to XDG_DATA_DIRS?
[16:58] <Kaleo> mhall119, yes
[16:58]  * tedg updates bug
[17:00] <tedg> jdstrand, Can we add that to aa-click-exec as well?  What project should I add a bug task to?  :-)
[17:00] <tedg> jdstrand, bug 1250546
[17:00] <stgraber> barry: thanks
[17:00] <sergiusens> lool, it's not a sed typo
[17:01] <ogra_> stgraber, i'm on 20 proper now (took a while)
[17:01] <ogra_> just to confirm
[17:01] <sergiusens> lool, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/+junk/click_ready/view/head:/click-build.py#L161
[17:01] <stgraber> ogra_: good
[17:02] <sergiusens> lool, on jenkins it just failed on two runs for some reason I haven't seem to discovered
[17:02] <stgraber> ogra_: the bug report barry mentioned earlier will fix the bug that caused your phone to want to upgrade to 17 instead of 20 and I'll poke at the server side of things to figure out wth went wrong here
[17:03] <ogra_> stgraber, perfect
[17:03] <ogra_> i'm happy we catched all this in -proposed
[17:03] <stgraber> ogra_: AFAICT the server somehow used trusty as the base of the delta for the image after the revert (instead of trusty-proposed)
[17:03] <ogra_> oh
[17:03] <stgraber> ogra_: so the image wouldn't have broken any device but it'd have contained way more than it should have
[17:03] <ogra_> yeah
[17:10] <sergiusens> lool, https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/system_image_switch/+merge/194904
[17:11] <sergiusens> lool, ogra_ that will forcibly allow to flash from recovery without losing data
[17:12] <ogra_> sergiusens, great !
[17:12] <lool> sergiusens: I can confirm the bug in the function somewhere: Replacing /usr/share/music-app/images/music.png with ges/music.png
[17:12] <lool> it's in strip_path
[17:12] <lool> (strip_path('/usr/share/music-app/images/music.png', '/home/lool/bzr/launchpad/music-app')
[17:12] <cwayne> tedg, made that bug also affect click-apparmor
[17:15] <sergiusens> lool, you ran it and it happened to you too? :-/
[17:15] <lool> sergiusens: lstrip is your issue
[17:15] <sergiusens> lool, I ran it like 10 times and couldn't get it
[17:16] <lool> sergiusens: it depends of the path
[17:16] <lool> sergiusens: basically lstrip will remove all the chars listed, not the string
[17:16] <sergiusens> lool, right
[17:19] <sergiusens> lool, path on jenkins is always the same though; so seems strange that it would alternately work/fail
[17:20] <sergiusens> lool, nvm, I see it
[17:22] <lool> sergiusens: Change to this:
[17:22] <lool>             if basename in files:
[17:22] <lool>                 basename = os.path.join(os.path.relpath(root, path), basename)
[17:22] <lool>                 break
[17:22] <sergiusens> lool, already am
[17:22] <lool> sergiusens: BTW can't send a mp on a +junk branch   :-)
[17:23] <sergiusens> lool, I should probably create a project for this; although I always thought we'd drop the debian packaging from the core apps eventually and not need this at all
[17:24] <lool> sergiusens: running ./phablet-flash ubuntu-system --channel devel-proposed -d mako --system-image-read with your branch
[17:24] <lool> and some user data
[17:25] <sergiusens> lool, do it from recovery; I tried on my manta and worked fine fwiw
[17:26] <lool> sergiusens: Yes, this is from recovery
[17:45] <lool> sergiusens: lp:~lool/+junk/click-ready-music-app-test
[17:45] <lool> sergiusens: added a test case just for you!  ;-)
[17:46] <lool> sergiusens: I see your branch doesn't have the fix yet, so I've pushed the fix as another rev now
[17:46] <sergiusens> lool, oh, was testing but have the bzr push ready
[17:47] <lool> sergiusens: Hmm oddly didn't get it a minute ago; did you just push?
[17:47] <lool> sergiusens: just copy test_clickbuild.py then  :-)
[17:47] <sergiusens> lool, ack
[17:47]  * lool needs to run now, bye!
[17:47] <sergiusens> lool, also, if you have time, add that MR for phablet-tools to the landing plan
[17:47] <lool> sergiusens: BTW phablet-tools branch worked
[17:47] <lool> sergiusens: Oh gosh
[17:48] <lool> sergiusens: how do I do that nowadays?
[17:48] <sergiusens> lool, I have no idea!
[17:48] <sergiusens> lool, no hurries, jenkins is busted
[17:48] <ogra_> lool, nothing changed
[17:48] <ogra_> right, and we have no infrastructure atm
[17:49] <lool> ok, well this will land in trunk at some point and we can take it at the earliest convenience
[17:49]  * lool runs
[17:52] <sergiusens> lool, that's what I've been doing
[17:52] <sergiusens> someone will pick stuff up eventually
[17:53] <ogra_> yeah, we'll drown in suddenly processed MPs for a few days
[18:05] <cwayne> kenvandine, ping
[18:06] <kenvandine> cwayne, pong
[18:06] <cwayne> kenvandine, hey, we're trying to get an evernote account-plugin setup, but are having some trouble with signond
[18:06] <cwayne> kenvandine, it's succesfully authenticating, but not actually adding the account
[18:07] <cwayne> kenvandine, https://pastebin.canonical.com/100304/
[18:07] <kenvandine> cwayne, yeah... i looked at that this morning
[18:07] <kenvandine> mardy told dpm he'd look at it tomorrow
 dpm: yes, it fails because the token_secret field is empty
[18:07] <kenvandine>  dpm: I'll have a better look tomorrow at the spec and at evernote's documentation
[18:07] <kenvandine> cwayne, ^^
[18:07] <cwayne> kenvandine, ah, alright
[18:07] <cwayne> sorry, hadn't seen that :)
[18:08] <kenvandine> cwayne, it's failing to get the token to save
[18:08] <kenvandine> cwayne, it was in another channel
[18:08] <kenvandine> not your fault :)
[18:08] <kenvandine> i reproduced the problem myself, but it is beyond my understanding of oauth to figure it out
[18:09] <bean> oauth is 0 fun
[18:10] <kenvandine> indeed
[18:10] <cwayne> oauth is about as fun as stepping on legos
[18:19] <kenvandine> cwayne, i step on legos frequently... hazard of having 3 kids ;)
[18:19] <kenvandine> it hurts!
[18:19] <JamesIsIn> Hello, folks.
[18:21] <JamesIsIn> I'm hoping to find a way to maybe add the Touch repos to an installation of Ubu 13.10 so as to gain at least certain aspects of the Touch GUI in Ubu 13.10.
[18:21] <JamesIsIn> ubuntu-touch
[18:21] <cwayne> kenvandine, it's the worst :)
[18:21] <JamesIsIn> oh?
[18:21] <JamesIsIn> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2187351
[18:22] <JamesIsIn> I installed 13.10 on this Acer Iconia Tab and would like to test some of the new GUI in an environment where I can still revert to the regular desktop should it become necessary.
[18:23] <JamesIsIn> Is that... difficult to accomplish?
[18:23] <kenvandine> JamesIsIn, you can't really right now
[18:23] <JamesIsIn> No packages/repo?
[18:23] <JamesIsIn> ... for regular Ubu?
[18:26] <kenvandine> JamesIsIn, it's not just packages, there is platform stuff that it needs
[18:27] <kenvandine> which isn't installable that way yet
[18:27] <kenvandine> JamesIsIn, when we finish with the convergence work, it'll be simpler
[18:27] <JamesIsIn> kenvandine - Is there a timeline?  Approximate?
[18:28] <kenvandine> i think a fair bit of the convergence work will come together for 14.04, but i don't think we have hard goals for it to be complete
[18:28] <kenvandine> you'll most likely be able to install the unity8 shell on 14.04 and use it
[18:28] <kenvandine> and things will work
[18:28] <kenvandine> at least that is the goal
[18:29] <kenvandine> so most of what you want will probably be there in 14.04
[18:29] <JamesIsIn> kenvandine - Already part of 14.04 or installable in 14.04?
[18:30] <kenvandine> probably optional
[18:30] <kenvandine> so installable or maybe something you select at install time
[18:30] <mhall119> is this something we support? https://plus.google.com/u/0/+kaimast/posts/PxYnCmCKShR
[18:31] <JamesIsIn> kenvandine - So if I get on the testing path for 14.04 I will likely see that functionality early next year (if all goes well)?
[18:31] <sergiusens> mhall119, it's being worked on
[18:31] <sergiusens> mhall119, emulator mostly works except the glesx -> host gl
[18:31] <sergiusens> that's being worked on
[18:32] <mhall119> sergiusens: can you give him an update in the comments?
[18:33] <sergiusens> done
[18:34] <kenvandine> JamesIsIn, yeah, and stay tuned to UDS next week
[18:34] <kenvandine> these decisions will happen then
[18:34] <mandel_> barry, ping
[18:36] <JamesIsIn> Thanks, kenvandine.  I'm eager to test UbuT and I have this extra device.  I'll keep looking for announcements.  Feel free to comment on my forum post should you find anything definitive.
[18:45] <mandel_> ogra_, ping
[19:01] <n-iCe> hello guys
[19:16] <pmcgowan> mandel_, are you familiar with the existing work on the download manager api?
[19:17] <mandel_> pmcgowan, hm.. what exactly do you mean?
[19:17] <pmcgowan> mandel_, we already defined and reviewed a QML API
[19:17] <pmcgowan> we meaning osomon
[19:18] <mandel_> pmcgowan, yes, I have the google doc, nevertheless I'm going to show that in a vUDS session before I implement it, AFAIK I'm going to be the one doing that
[19:18] <pmcgowan> mandel_, ok, check with olivier to see if he had started implementation, I amnot sure
[19:18] <mandel_> pmcgowan, do you have the google doc?
[19:18] <pmcgowan> I did have
[19:18] <mandel_> pmcgowan, I'd like to link that to the blueprint
[19:19] <pmcgowan> let me check
[19:19] <mandel_> thx
[19:19] <pmcgowan> mandel_, I shared it to you
[19:20] <mandel_> pmcgowan, thx a lot
[19:21] <mandel_> pmcgowan, osomon in at  CET I'll ping him on wed morning his time
[19:21] <pmcgowan> mandel_, very good
[20:03] <n-iCe> ubuntu touch
[20:03] <n-iCe> so it has apps already?
[20:05] <beuno> n-iCe, it has ~150 apps
[20:06] <n-iCe> twitter? facebook?
[20:14] <robotfuel> I need to run tests other than autopilot on the phone can someone review/approve this merge proposal? https://code.launchpad.net/~chris.gagnon/phablet-tools/run-test-without-autopilot/+merge/194920
[20:15] <robotfuel> sergiusens: can you review ^?
[20:16] <sergiusens> robotfuel, no worries, got it in an email; is jenkins up though?
[20:17] <robotfuel> sergiusens: good question
[20:17] <robotfuel> sergiusens: I haven't checked, it was down eariler
[20:18] <cwayne> still down for me
[20:21] <sergiusens> robotfuel, cwayne from what I hear it's a day away still
[20:21] <cwayne> sergiusens, i heard maybe thursday
[20:22] <robotfuel> sergiusens: ack thanks.
[20:48] <Anonynimity> hey, so I have a few questions about porting...
[20:49] <Anonynimity> 1) current components used from android -- Do I have to install OpenGL ES2.0 HAL and drivers, Media HAL and RILD for modem support manually or should they be included in the kernel?
[20:50] <Anonynimity> 2) Pre-installed images -- do I have to use a preinstalled image for any device or should the device already be supported?
[20:58] <Anonynimity> anyone?
[21:00] <smoku> lxc-start: failed to run pre-start hooks for container 'android'.
[21:00] <smoku> where should i look for these pre-start hooks?
[21:40] <TechieElf> Hello, i'm back again to nag you all some more :p
[21:41] <TechieElf> Any devs active ? I have a request
[21:43] <TechieElf> I need another dev to help me out with sms/calling for a port. I have no idea how to get it to work
[21:43] <xnox> TechieElf: you should have ritld daemon available/running in the android container.
[21:44] <TechieElf> I'm pretty sure it is. I'm just confused. What is the difference between GSM and CDMA?
[21:45] <xnox> TechieElf: one works, the other one doesn't.
[21:45] <xnox> TechieElf: and if you have CDMA phone / network you are out of luck.
[21:45] <TechieElf> How do I know if I do?
[21:46] <xnox> TechieElf: does your phone have a SIM card?
[21:46] <TechieElf> Yes
[21:47] <xnox> you most likely have GSM phone.
[21:48] <TechieElf> Is there a possibility of it being both? http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Xt907_Info
[21:49] <xnox> TechieElf: same model of the phone, often are released in either variants. depends which one you have.
[21:50] <TechieElf> Well then I guess mine is GSM. I have a SIM card. So what is required for this to work?
[21:50] <xnox> TechieElf: you should have ritld daemon available/running in the android container.
[21:51] <xnox> on top of that, ophone should work with it, but i have no idea how to verify / check that ophono is ok.
[21:53] <TechieElf> Hashcode, the link to the xt907 phablet zip is dead
[21:54] <Anonynimity> current components used from android -- Do I have to install OpenGL ES2.0 HAL and drivers, Media HAL and RILD for modem support manually or should they be included in the kernel?
[21:54] <Anonynimity> Pre-installed images -- do I have to use a preinstalled image for any device or should the device already be supported?
[21:56] <Hashcode> *le sigh* .. goo.im being annoying.
[21:57] <Hashcode> I lost about 50% of my files during an upgrade and I only had about 20% of those files to re-upload.
[21:57] <Hashcode> TechieElf: that was for the old ubuntu-touch anyway
[21:57] <Anonynimity> Hashcode, would you know what I need to do to port ubuntu onto a new device?
[21:57] <Hashcode> No but there's a decent wiki write-up for porting.
[21:58] <TechieElf> Ouch. Ever think of using a new file host? Also, I'm a little stuck trying to find the source of the xt907 port. Not sure what is what
[21:58] <Anonynimity> I'm looking at it Hashcode... I'm just not sure on these 2 parts...
[21:58] <TechieElf> I've been sent here but I'm not really sure how this counts as source code: https://github.com/razrqcom-dev-team/android_local_razrqcom/tree/phablet
[21:59] <Hashcode> That's the local manifest for the old ubuntu-touch repo to build the Android bits for XT907
[21:59] <Hashcode> so when you have that in the .repo/local_manifests folder it will repo sync down the needed gits
[22:00] <smoku> TechieElf, this manifest worked for me just fine
[22:00] <Hashcode> But really TechieElf that older version has no legs now.  Everyone needs to rebuild w/ a flipped image style build.
[22:00] <smoku> TechieElf, I have a working build using that manifest.
[22:00] <smoku> + some hacking in ubuntu-boot.img
[22:01] <Hashcode> Right
[22:01] <TechieElf> I have no idea how to flip it :P
[22:01] <smoku> Hashcode, any hints why I have nothing on display?  even cat /dev/urandom > /dev/fb0 does nothing
[22:02] <Hashcode> XT907 has a kind of odd panel
[22:02] <smoku> Hashcode, I have xt925
[22:02] <Hashcode> There could be some issue with the panel coming up correctly
[22:02] <Hashcode> ah
[22:02] <Hashcode> I'd have to debug it to really know
[22:03] <smoku> I managed to get android container up and I see a lot of processes running (like lightdm and unity8)
[22:03] <smoku> but nothing on display still
[22:03] <TechieElf> Well should I start from scratch then for the flipped image style? Or is pulling the old source beneficial?
[22:04] <Hashcode> Yeah the current builds for ubuntu-touch are for trusty
[22:04] <Hashcode> that manifest was used on the Raring builds
[22:05] <TechieElf> Hmmmm.
[22:06] <smoku> TechieElf, the old manifest worked for me just fine. the main issue it to 'fastboot flash boot ubuntu-boot.img' manually to have new init
[22:08] <TechieElf> I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. :/
[22:08] <smoku> TechieElf, also look at bug 1250238 - explains a fix i needed to do in ubuntu-boot.img so it could find my data partition
[22:09] <smoku> TechieElf, follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting up to "Enabling_a_new_device"
[22:10] <smoku> TechieElf, then instead breakfast do what is in https://github.com/razrqcom-dev-team/android_local_razrqcom/tree/phablet README
[22:11] <smoku> TechieElf, then repo sync && brunch xt907
[22:11] <TechieElf> Is there a package needed for breakfast and brunch?
[22:12] <Anonynimity> msm8660_defconfig will work instead of cyanogenmod_[codename]_defconfig, won't it?
[22:13] <TechieElf> I'm used to Windows as a dev environment so excuse these newbie questions :p
[22:13] <Anonynimity> for a huawei fusion 2?
[22:13]  * Anonynimity 's first development is ubuntu touch porting 
[22:13] <Anonynimity> oops
[22:13] <smoku> TechieElf, these functions get added to your shell when you do ". build/envsetup.sh"
[22:14] <Anonynimity> so excuse all the newbie questions... this is my first time doing this...
[22:14] <TechieElf> Alright. One sec. I'm on (gross) Windows and have to get back on Ubuntu
[22:16] <Anonynimity> smoku - do you know if that will work instead of using cyanogenmod_[codename_defconfig
[22:17] <smoku> Anonynimity, I would stick to the kernel config your CM10.1 uses
[22:18] <Anonynimity> but I don't have that kernel config file as it's an unofficial port of CM10.1
[22:18] <Anonynimity> I finally found the kernel source for the huawei fusion 2
[22:20] <TechieElf> smoku: mkdir .repo/local_manifests from the README is throwing an error at me
[22:21] <smoku> TechieElf, what error? :)
[22:22] <TechieElf> mkdir: cannot create directory ‘.repo/local_manifests’: No such file or directory
[22:22] <smoku> Anonynimity, then use the unofficial port kernel and config. start with a working one
[22:23] <smoku> TechieElf, follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting up to "Enabling_a_new_device"
[22:24] <Anonynimity> where would I find the unofficial port kernel and config files?
[22:24] <TechieElf> I swear I already have. I'll see if I missed anything
[22:26] <smoku> TechieElf, phablet-dev-bootstrap should initialize repo for you and create .repo dir
[22:26] <smoku> Anonynimity, ask the author of the port
[22:28] <user82> hi all. how is battery life currently doing on a nexus 4? android as comparison maybe?
[22:29] <user82> somewhat half, or is that a review with wrong information i got there
[22:31] <TechieElf> Whelp , guess i'll redo phablet-dev-bootstrap because it looks like I messed up there.
[22:34] <TechieElf> smoku: So after pulling the source, changing some things, and then building, is there anything I need to do to be able to use the trusty zip?
[22:37] <smoku> TechieElf, after installing both zips via recovery, you need to 'fastboot flash boot ubuntu-boot.img'
[22:38] <TechieElf> What's that for?
[22:39] <smoku> it's boot image with ubuntu initrd inside
[22:40] <TechieElf> Ah.
[22:42] <smoku> TechieElf, this is what makes it "flipped".  cm's boot.img has android initrd, which booted first and then started ubuntu in container
[22:43] <smoku> TechieElf, ubuntu-boot.img starts ubuntu first (from /data/ubuntu) and then android in a container
[22:43] <TechieElf> Oh okay. That explains why I didn't know about it
[22:43] <TechieElf> I'm almost done grabbing the source and then I'll dig in :3
[22:51] <S_Wise> How is the desktop and TV convergence coming along?—Any developers? I can't get it on my phone.
[22:54] <S_Wise> How is the desktop and TV convergence coming along?—Any developers? I can't get it on my phone.
[22:54] <S_Wise> How is the desktop and TV convergence coming along?—Any developers? I can't get it on my phone.
[22:54] <S_Wise> How is the desktop and TV convergence coming along?—Any developers? I can't get it on my phone.
[22:54] <S_Wise> How is the desktop and TV convergence coming along?—Any developers? I can't get it on my phone.
[22:54] <TechieElf> Spam much?
[22:54] <S_Wise> How is the desktop and TV convergence coming along?—Any developers? I can't get it on my phone.
[22:54] <S_Wise> All the time.
[22:55] <TechieElf> Haha. Isn't this an odd place to discuss desktop and TV convergence?
[22:55] <S_Wise> It is the ubuntu touch irc
[22:55] <S_Wise> So, you talk about the ubuntu touch
[22:56] <S_Wise> Which is supposed to have desktop and TV convergence
[22:56] <TechieElf> Fair enough.
[22:57] <S_Wise> Isn't it though!
[22:58] <TechieElf> I'm guessing the priorty right now is phones because I haven't even heard of the TV and desktop convergence being mentioned here.
[22:58] <S_Wise> Anyway, anyone know when mir will get the power to do that on phones?
[22:59] <S_Wise> Well, its how the phones use unity
[23:00] <S_Wise> High-end smartphones have a brain as powerful as a full PC. Ubuntu, with its next-generation Mir graphics architecture, uniquely enables a new kind of convergence device: a phone that docks to become a full PC and thin client. Enterprise IT departments will soon be able to replace phones, thin clients and laptops with a single corporate device.  With support for remote Windows apps over Microsoft RDP, Citrix or VMWare, the Ubuntu
[23:00] <S_Wise> From: http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/operators-and-oems
[23:01] <S_Wise> And at the high end, Ubuntu paves the way for a new category of superphones, with a full PC desktop accessible just by docking the device to a monitor and keyboard. A handheld PC is the future of personal computing — true convergence.
[23:02] <S_Wise> Also from: http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/operators-and-oems
[23:05] <smoku> S_Wise, it's still years to come
[23:05] <TechieElf> I'm predicting 2015
[23:09] <S_Wise> MIR is guarenteed to have it April 17
[23:09] <S_Wise> guaranteed
[23:14] <TechieElf> smoku I have all the source (finally). What's the next logical step?
[23:15] <smoku> TechieElf, then instead breakfast do what is in https://github.com/razrqcom-dev-team/android_local_razrqcom/tree/phablet README
[23:16] <TechieElf> I did and it looks like its grabbing stuff, i.e the msm8960 kernel. Is this correct?
[23:17] <cwayne> stgraber, are we waiting on something else to merge this? https://code.launchpad.net/~cwayne18/ubuntu/trusty/initramfs-tools-ubuntu-touch/no-hardcoding-user/+merge/194004
[23:20] <kdub> hey rsalveti, any chance this wishlist-bug could be put back on the radar? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libhybris/+bug/1224635
[23:20] <rsalveti> kdub: yup, it'll be fixed at my next libhybris upload (will take a few days still)
[23:20] <smoku> TechieElf, yes
[23:21] <kdub> rsalveti, thanks. no need to rush it through
[23:22] <kdub> smoku, or TechieElf are you trying to get the razr working with mir?
[23:22] <TechieElf> I'm not familiar with the term mir and I'm working on the xt907 port.
[23:23] <smoku> kdub, nope. just latest prebuilt image
[23:23] <kdub> ah, alright
[23:29] <smoku> kdub, I don't have working fb0 yet, so I don't even think about Mir ;-)
[23:31] <TechieElf> I'm feeling left out guysssss, whats Mir?
[23:31] <kdub> TechieElf, mir is the display server for ubuntu touch
[23:31] <smoku> TechieElf, wikipedia has a good article on Mir
[23:34] <TechieElf> What are the benefits/uses of Mir?
[23:36] <kdub> TechieElf, the uses are much like surfaceflinger/X/etc, clients can connect to it and put pixels on the screen
[23:38] <TechieElf> Thanks kdub
[23:38] <TechieElf> smoku: Finally I have everything. How do I make sure that daemon is running for sms/calling ?
[23:41] <smoku> TechieElf, just 'adb shell' and see if you have rild and ofono runniing
[23:44] <TechieElf> smoku: And if it's not?
[23:45] <smoku> TechieElf, check /var/log to see why
[23:45] <Nothing_Much> How do I get Android headers?
[23:52] <Nothing_Much> I can't figure out how to get these headers guys, I tried downloading the entire source, but I ran out of disk space..
[23:55] <Nothing_Much> Hello?
[23:57] <smoku> Nothing_Much, what do you need it for?
[23:57] <Nothing_Much> libhybris on a desktop
[23:57] <Nothing_Much> I found a tutorial
[23:57] <Nothing_Much> But it requires android headers
[23:57] <Nothing_Much> And I can't for the life of me figure out how to get them or use them
[23:58] <Nothing_Much> I have the "android-headers-project (or whatever it's called)" package installed
[23:58] <Nothing_Much> But that doesn't work