=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
MooDoomorning all07:02
=== iahmad_ is now known as iahmad|afk
=== iahmad|afk is now known as iahmad
brobostigongood morning everyone.08:52
MooDoomorning brobostigon08:54
brobostigonmorning MooDoo08:54
popeyGood morning!08:54
brobostigonmorning hrh popey08:56
MooDooHow is everyone this fine day.08:56
brobostigonsneezy, and jobcentre signon day.08:57
shauno9am and I'm downloading drivers for my amiga.  it's a good day!08:57
diploMorning all09:09
BigRedSGoooooood Morning!09:16
DJonesali1234: Another bitcoin hack http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/13/bitcashcz_burgled_and_closed/09:17
TheOpenSourcererMorning all.09:17
ali1234never heard of them either09:18
BigRedSali1234: I'm beginning to think that's viewed as a feature when it comes to bitcoin exchanges09:18
BigRedSthey seem to all prefer something that was knocked together by some kid after school one day to anything remotely designed09:19
DJonesali1234: I guess there are a lot of small exchanges09:19
BigRedSwhich is partly why I'm remaining distrustful of bitcoin in general - it's not that it's immature per se, it's that nobody particularly involved appears capable of foresight09:19
BigRedSIs there some form into which I can paste a MySQL bug number and find out which debian packages have patched it? It's not a security vuln09:21
BigRedSOh. It's still in 5.6.12 apparently so I don't expect it's been patched anywhere in 5.1...09:22
DJonesI don't think thats a bitcoin problem specifically, even regular banks get hacked & funds siphoned off, but they're normally covered up to protect the banks reputation, bitcoin is probably just gets more publicity at the moment because its comparatively new and the small exchanges don't have the deposits and the influence to keep a hack/theft quiet09:23
ali1234that and bank deposits are protected09:24
SuperMattsurely the difference is that banks have reserves and checks and regulation that says if any money goes missing the bank is responsible for ensuring the customer is treated fairly09:25
SuperMattbitcoin has none of that09:25
ali1234banks don't have reserves09:25
SuperMattwell they should09:26
DJonesSuperMatt: What banks have is influence to be able to hide a hack/theft, to my eyes, bitcoin is a lot more public, so when something goes wrong, it goes wrong in public09:26
DJonesali1234: Would you say that was a fair assesment09:27
ali1234not really09:27
shaunoaren't banks insured by the state?  I'd have thought there's some equivalence to the FDIC in the US09:27
ali1234it's more like: fiat currency doesn't exist in the first place, so it's impossible to rob banks of any significant amount, since it's impossible for them to hold a reserve of something that doesn't exist09:28
MartijnVdSwell it physically exists (as in, paper with numbers on them)09:28
ali1234the idea that banks lend out some fraction of deposits is completely untrue09:28
ali1234the only thing banks have is debt09:28
DJonesshauno: Upto a limit of (I think) £30K if the bank completely crumbles (eg RBS & Lloyds), but a few million here or there is generally kept quiet & covered out of bank profits09:29
BigRedSwell, they often have assets too, but they are a fraction of the debt rather than the other way around09:29
BigRedSbut, yeah, the bigger problem than the perceived transparency is that when bitcoin goes wrong people other than the exchange lose out. When a bank goes wrong they must compensate their customers09:31
BigRedSand since there's no regulation of the exchanges there's not a huge incentive to be any good09:31
ali1234no, actually , that's not true either09:31
ali1234bank despotis are insured by the government09:31
ali1234when a bank crashes, the public pays via taxes09:31
BigRedSyeah, I meant for problems smaller than crashes, which are substantially less frequent in banks than they are in bitcoin exchanges09:32
ali1234bitcoin exchanges regularly pay for smaller mistakes09:32
BigRedSby 'go wrong' I mean 'gets broken into/compromised/robbed'09:32
ali1234if they didn't they would quickly lose all their customers09:33
BigRedSoh, maybe I've not been paying enough attention recently09:33
ali1234you just don't hear about it unless you have an account at the specific exchange09:33
ali1234you should really trust any exchange that hasn't been hacked09:34
shaunothere doesn't seem to be any legal response in these though.  that's the unnerving bit09:34
ali1234it's only a matter of time really09:34
DJonesThe last couple bitcoin thefts that have been publicised appear to be more a case that the entire exchange has been wiped out either by internal/external theft leaving them with nothing, which would be comparable with Barclays having every fund held on deposit transferred out & the bank crashing09:35
shaunoif 1m GBP is taken from a bank, there's a taskforce.  if the equivalence in BTC is hacked, there's a slashdot article09:35
ali1234also you shouldn't treat exchanges like banks in the first place09:35
ali1234DJones: yeah, that's cos you never hear about the small hacks that they recover from09:35
DJonesali1234: Agreed09:36
DJonesThats the same as the major banks, small (to them) thefts don't get reported either09:36
ali1234for example when btc-e were hacked the hacker could only withdraw the hot wallet (which is like robbing only the tills but not the vault)09:37
JamesTaitGood morning all; happy World Kindness Day! :-D09:58
MooDooJamesTait: pah get stuffed ;)09:59
MartijnVdSJamesTait: what kind?09:59
JamesTaitMartijnVdS, what kind of kindness?09:59
MartijnVdSjust the regular kind, I guess?10:00
* JamesTait hands MooDoo a coffee.10:00
popeykindness? http://media.sfx.co.uk/files/2011/09/Doctor-Who-The-Girl-Who-Waited-100911.jpg10:00
MooDooJamesTait: thanks sie!10:00
JamesTaitThank you popey, very kind of you. :)10:00
MartijnVdSMooDoo: "Danken Sie" is (almost?) German :)10:01
TheOpenSourcererAhh - Amy Pond. Can I say "phwaaar"?10:01
BigRedSis he looking through a magnifying glass at her bottom?10:02
JamesTaitLooks that way.10:02
MartijnVdSthat's her husband10:02
MartijnVdSso he's allowed to do that10:02
JamesTaitHe also looks quite astonished at what he sees.10:03
SuperMattI just emailed my MP with this10:09
SuperMattoh goodie, her surgury is open Friday morning, and I happen to have the day off work10:13
SuperMattI know what I shall be doing10:13
BigRedSI forgot the topic had switched from Amy Pond and was a bit confused by those last two lines10:20
MartijnVdSBigRedS: well she WAS the doctor's companion10:20
MartijnVdSspeakign of which.. tomorrow: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03hybnv10:21
BigRedSOh yeah, I want to see that10:22
popeySuperMatt / MooDoo how are the hangouts going?10:26
MooDoopopey: supermatt has done quite a few, I don't have my invite from google yet, so don't have a helpout url.10:26
MooDoothey seem to be going ok, although from what SuperMatt has been saying a lot of helpouts he's done have been a lot more involved that new users10:27
ali1234not surprised really10:27
ali1234ubuntu just isn't that hard to use10:27
SuperMattand it's a little frustrating that large numbers of people keep not turning up10:28
ali1234if you can't figure out how to install it, you probably can't figure out how to use hangouts either10:28
ali1234SuperMatt: do you charge? if so, do you still get pad if people don't show?10:28
SuperMattI don't charge10:28
ali1234well... maybe you should?10:29
SuperMattif they don't show for a paid one, you get 50% of the first 15 minutes of a per minute charge10:29
SuperMattit's a tricky balance10:29
ali1234i would charge at least 25p/minute10:29
SuperMattthat's £15 an hour, and some of the helpouts go on to about that10:30
SuperMattit's way more than I want to charge people10:30
ali1234yes, exactly10:30
SuperMattan alternative I've been thinking about running is changing people a nominal fee, say £5 an hour, and then paying it back to people when theyd o show10:31
popeywhy not charge people?10:31
ali1234and why not charge people a fair amount for the work?10:31
popeyyeah, that's what I'd do10:31
ali1234£15/hour is cheap for "phone" one-on-one support, when you don't have to go through first line10:32
MooDooI think as it's a new idea, we're taking it slow, charging people will probably come when we've ironed out the kinks10:32
SuperMattgoogle are looking in to options for charging for no shows, but still allowing free sessions10:33
SuperMattbut I might start charging a fiver10:34
SuperMattbecause the no shows have really put me off doing it10:34
popeypart of the reason for no-show is not charging10:34
popeyif you charge people are more likely to come10:34
ali1234even if you only charge £1 it will get rid of the timewasters10:35
SuperMattI'm gonna try 10p a minute, we can see how things go10:36
popeywhats the average for existing tech support people?10:37
SuperMattthere's a lot of free stuff going on10:37
SuperMattsome people run two, a sort of free clinic, and a paid version10:38
popey$1/m seems common10:38
SuperMattwhat I might do is have my "free clinic" always run from 6.30-7.30, and after that you have to pay10:39
SuperMattI'll run that as an experiment next week10:42
popeyyou should blog more ☻10:43
SuperMattshould I?10:43
MartijnVdSand yes10:43
SuperMattabout my experiences with helpouts?10:43
SuperMattthere, I've configured a free clinic helpout (waiting for review) and a paid version10:44
popeyyes, there's only one post so far10:47
SuperMattI'll do it later today10:47
SuperMattbusy now writing an internal wiki entry on cgroups10:47
bashrcwhat did people do before wikis?10:49
SuperMattcopious amounts of word documents, which got emailed around so everyone had different versions10:53
BigRedSpeople still do that10:54
SuperMattvery true10:54
davmor2Morning all10:58
MooDoomorning davmor210:58
davmor2Ow do MooDoo10:59
=== joshmyers is now known as bubu
=== bubu is now known as bubu\a
penguin42https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNkDJk5_9eU    someone has been doing odd things to their geekos11:05
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)11:07
MooDoomoring bigcalm11:07
bigcalmHowdy MooDoo11:08
MooDooarsen: what a greeting, but no, MooDoo is fine ;)11:10
arseni'm not sure SuSE should be allowed to do that11:10
davmor2bigcalm: you having steak tonight by any chance?11:11
bigcalmdavmor2: we shall see. No guarantee11:11
bigcalmdavmor2: I see we might have a Mr Evil with us tonight11:11
bigcalmdavmor2: what are the chances that Pete shows up just to taunt him? :)11:12
davmor2bigcalm: I know I nearly fell outta my seat when I saw that :D11:12
davmor2bigcalm: nil Pete is a wuss11:12
MooDooarsen: oh dear, hmmm we could do our own....what does popey say?11:12
popeyI think it's a surprisingly well done spoof11:13
arsenit is, but .. suse? really? :/11:13
bigcalmWhat does the jonno say? Community-community-community-community-community11:13
MooDooczajkowski: goes aloha, bigcam goes....oh I see it now ;)11:13
arsenhaving to suffer SuSE on a daily basis, and having recently interacted with some of their employees - i'm surprised they came up with that.11:13
popeykinda surprised the video hasn't had more views11:14
popeybut yeah, suse11:14
arsenshame it wasn't a tux one inspired one.11:14
bigcalmWhat video are you peeps talking about?11:14
arsenthat makes no sense, but you understand what i tried to type.11:14
MooDoohasn't had more views11:14
MooDoo10:14 < popey> but yeah, suse11:14
BigRedSshouldn't they be fixing yast rather than making silly videos?11:14
MooDoothis one BigRedS11:14
penguin42BigRedS: Perhaps this is what they do in the long dark evenings11:15
popeymission accomplished though, we all saw it ☻11:15
MooDooyou do realise we'll have to do one "what does the tahr say" before next april ;)11:15
ali1234presumably it was made for the conference which is currently happening?11:15
arsenon that note - anyone used an alternative to NIS/YP in an enterprise environment? ideally with ubuntu?11:15
arsenhah i got an invite to that, ali123411:16
bigcalmOh my, that was a bit silly11:16
MooDooliny goes...pangolin goes .... and the ocelot says ow ow ow ;)11:16
MooDoook i'll shut up11:17
popeyMooDoo: no, because by april the meme will be older than it already is11:17
popeyit would be like making spoofs of the "I'm a PC" apple advert11:17
popeyHello Novell!11:17
ali1234that could actually be quite funny11:17
MooDoohehe I know just making me smile :D11:17
popeybeing funny and being current are different things11:18
ali1234yeah, but you could do it ironically, in order to make fun of suse11:18
popeyoh, meta11:19
penguin42arsen: People tend to use ldap these days11:19
arsen"would you like to come to the SuSE conference?"    " .. i'd rather fork my own eyes out."11:20
ali1234one conference is very much like another11:20
arsencrap? :)11:20
ali1234well it beats working11:20
arseni duno, i've been to some...11:20
arsenfree food and booze is nice, and if its somewhere expenses paid in a nice location with travel.. maybe.11:21
BigRedSali1234: the conferency bit, perhaps. But the reason to go is the lunch and that is a variable11:21
davmor2MooDoo: the Tahr bleets it's a goat D'oh.  That or it sings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyixC9NsLI11:21
popeyUDS in Texas had an awesome BBQ11:21
bigcalmpopey: was that the one where you went with a beach ball?11:22
popeyno, that was Oakland11:22
bigcalmThat photo still haunts me11:23
bigcalmOh, photos are slowly emerging from the wedding11:24
arsenI just did the Fujitsu one, it was a great .. event?11:24
bigcalmWho wants a laugh?11:24
arseno/ bigcalm11:24
davmor2bigcalm: go on then11:27
bigcalmpopey: only from the photo booth so far. I note that you didn't use it?11:27
arsenthe suspense...11:27
popeyahh, no11:27
* penguin42 wonders what that domain name is for11:28
bigcalmUnless you know the people in the photos, I guess they won't be that funny11:29
bigcalmpenguin42: maybe I should have registered hayleyandiaingotmarried.com as well11:29
davmor2bigcalm: why does the bottom one of sweets actually suit him11:30
bigcalmpopey: AlanBell: if either of you took photos and fancy sending them to me, we'd really appreciate it :)11:30
bigcalmdavmor2: Ad was determined to keep a sullen expression the entire time. I made him laugh for the last one though :D11:31
bigcalm€130 nice11:34
bigcalmBluetooth is a drain though11:35
arsenlooks cool popey, i'm still not convinced there's a proper market for those though, unless it totally replaces the phone itself.11:37
ali1234i would buy a nice looking watch with a nice oled screen even if it wasn't a "smart" watch as long as it wasn't stupidly expensive11:39
dwatkinsMy watch buzzed and told me my SD card would be delivered shortly.11:46
DJonesdwatkins: And then the watch ejected the SD card?11:46
ali1234why doesn't autossh actually work?12:00
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|afk
=== alan_g|afk is now known as alan_g
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch
mungbeanit'll all end in tears when the house burns down and the dinos steal the car12:56
Laneymy chair is now listing heavily13:07
Laneydistressing creaks with every movement13:07
Laneymight need to replace it ...13:07
dwatkinsali1234: I find you have to provide a numer with the -M option which isn't in use by another process, so I have an alias that uses -M $RANDOM in the line13:19
dwatkinsis there an easy way to get Flash to work from a USB stick having booted raring?13:26
dwatkinsI don't see a flashplayer entry in the apt-cache search output13:26
SuperMattyou need to enable to extra sources13:28
SuperMattonly main is enabled in the iso13:28
dwatkinsah yes, I'm not installing so it never asked me the question13:28
SuperMattflash is in multiverse13:29
dwatkinswhere does the .so file live inside the mozille installation directory, then? I can't see a plugins dir in /usr/share/mozilla13:29
dwatkinsah cool, I'll just create the directory, thanks SuperMatt13:29
SuperMattyou're welcome13:30
dwatkinssadly that appears not to be enough, perhaps it'll go into my homedirectory ok13:31
SuperMattfingers crossed13:32
dwatkinsI could just install chromium, but I'm determined now ;)13:32
MartijnVdSXPS 12 - works fine with Ubuntu, except for one bug (if you keep the touch screen enabled, the trackpad doesn't do more than "basic mouse" features)13:33
popeyheh https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/editions/2012-editions/express.aspx13:33
popey(scroll down)13:33
MartijnVdS(the rotating screen Dell laptop)13:33
MartijnVdSpopey: nice community logo ;)13:33
SuperMattthey almost look like a group of friends in a circle13:34
MartijnVdSdwatkins: *um bongo?13:34
dwatkinsit needed me to copy libflashplayer.so to ~/.mozilla/firefox/[$RANDOM_REFERENCE].default/plugins/13:34
SuperMattdwatkins: yeah, that would deffo work :)13:35
SuperMattany reason why you didn't just want to install from multiverse?13:35
dwatkinsSuperMatt: not sure how I'd enable that after booting from USB13:35
SuperMattedit /etc/apt/sources.list.d13:36
dwatkinsah yes13:36
dwatkinsdone it before, come to think of it13:36
SuperMattedit /etc/apt/sources.list13:36
dwatkinsso long ago, when I installed 8.04, probably13:36
SuperMattthat was my first ubuntu13:36
SuperMatthaven't looked back since13:36
bigcalmTheOpenSourcerer: You've reported that you've now got Android 4.3 on your SGS3. Are you running stock? I'm still stuck on 4.1.213:40
=== alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g
dwatkinsSuperMatt: neither had I until the recent political fun with Mir vs Weyland, not sure how things might pan-out.13:42
popeyHmm, 4.4 is supposed to hit the N7 today13:54
DJonesIt hasn't hit mine or my wifes yet13:56
MartijnVdSpopey: old or new? or both>?13:56
popeyn10 too13:56
DJonesOurs are new models13:57
MartijnVdSpopey: OK, I'll probably get a call from my mother then :)13:57
MooDoobigcalm: are you running stock as it's not been upgraded from 4.1.2 yet13:58
bigcalmMooDoo: I'm running whatever came with the phone from T-Mobile13:58
MooDoobigcalm: i'm only running 4.3 as i'm using cyanogenmod13:59
bigcalmMooDoo: so Samsung's own fun13:59
MooDoobigcalm: yeah basically updates from samsung are pants13:59
directhexandroid sucks for updates13:59
DJonesFor a 65 year old looking to buy a new desktop machine, for use with email/internet/word processing etc, can you think of a reason not to buy a cheapish machine with a celeron processor, he's not going to be a power user14:00
MartijnVdSdirecthex: not on Nexuses14:00
MooDoocarrier based android sucks, if you have a nexus it doesn't14:00
directhexno, it sucks on nexuses too, compared to iphone14:00
directhexit's just far far worse on not-nexus14:00
MooDooios7 nuff said lol ha ha ha ha haha ha ha14:01
TheOpenSourcererbigcalm: Yep - stock SGS3 not rooted. Got a note to update yesterday afternoon...14:01
bigcalmTheOpenSourcerer: which network?14:01
bigcalmOkay, ta14:01
directhexMooDoo, yes, ios 7. which runs on iphone 4 (june 2010), i.e. iphones have >3 years of OS updates14:03
directhexMooDoo, that's older than the nexus S, which received its last OS update in October 201214:04
MooDoodirecthex: i was having a bit of fun sorry :D14:04
davmor2bigcalm: mine has the update available and I have no sim in it :)14:06
bigcalmAh, I see14:07
bigcalmI bet it's because I have an early release of the hardware14:07
davmor2bigcalm: just go into setting and click on the update option14:08
davmor2bigcalm: I thought that got changed didn't you send it back?14:08
bigcalmdavmor2: I did, but they sent the same device back14:09
bigcalmI've gone to software update many times. It always says I have the latest version installed14:09
davmor2bigcalm: Settings → About Device → Check for updates14:09
bigcalmYes, I know14:09
popeydirecthex: what's the apple policy? last 3 supported devices get updates or something?14:11
directhexpopey, no hard & fast policy afaik. just "3 years ish" seems to apply14:12
directhexno ios 7 for 3gs, but ios 6 was on there14:12
awilkinsif( steve_needs_new_yacht() ) {14:12
MartijnVdSawilkins: tim*14:13
awilkins        dont_update();14:13
awilkins} else {14:13
awilkins    do_update();14:13
shaunosteve got a new yacht, and it's hideous :/14:13
davmor2bigcalm: switch of mobile data and then try on just wifi14:13
MartijnVdSshauno: yeah it came through my town14:13
MartijnVdSshauno: http://www.alphens.nl/nieuws/overig/6428,iboat-van-steve-jobs-door-alphen.html14:14
awilkinsMartijnVdS, The code hasn't been updated yet14:14
bigcalmdavmor2: no change14:14
MartijnVdSawilkins: lesson: use titles/roles, not individual names ;)14:14
shaunolol, 'jacht' just loks wrong14:14
awilkinsMartijnVdS, But yachts are such a personal preference...14:14
MartijnVdSshauno: it's pronounced the same, almost :)14:15
davmor2bigcalm: sucks to be you dude :D14:15
popeymy ipad is still rocking ios 514:18
popeystill gets used very often, more so than the newer/faster android tablets14:18
MartijnVdSI almost never use my Xoom, but I do use my Chromebook a lot14:19
bigcalmI use my Xoom quite a bit. It took a star role at my wedding14:20
MartijnVdSbigcalm: so you could remember your vows/14:20
shaunoI thought the star roles was meant to be hers :p14:20
bigcalmI said 'a', not 'the'14:21
bigcalmIt was used as the photobooth14:21
MartijnVdSoh that's a cute idea :)14:21
TheOpenSourcererbigcalm: Think I might have been one of the (un)lucky ones then... http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/521732/20131113/samsung-galaxy-s3-4-3-jelly-bean.htm14:21
MartijnVdSmy sister is marrying next summer, suggesting that now :)14:21
awilkinsAre we discussing kitkat updates?14:22
MooDooawilkins: any android updates :)14:22
dwatkinsTalking about this version of Android is going to amuse me all the time.14:22
TheOpenSourcererMine went to 4.3 yesterday evening.14:22
dwatkinsI'm still on Gingerbread ;)14:22
MooDooI'm on cyanogenmod, just waiting for 4.4 nightlies14:22
dwatkinsI'm on CM 7.2, but my phone's so old they stopped updating it with new builds.14:23
TheOpenSourcererI read with interest the new CM installer is now on Google Play.14:23
bigcalmTheOpenSourcerer: ah. I wonder if the SGS3 will see any more updates or if that's it14:23
awilkinsNexii 4 and 7.0, quite OK with where they are right now14:23
MartijnVdSdwatkins: they've even stopped updating the xoom now (cyanogen)14:23
dwatkinsheh, we have a Xoom in the office, it's a beast14:25
bigcalmMy wife loves the Tesco Hudl I gave her14:27
dwatkinsThey're selling those at the Tesco near here, looks like a fairly good and recent Android version.14:27
awilkinsMy mother-in-law just got one on her Clubcard points14:28
MartijnVdS"Hudl"? A web 2.0 name!14:28
awilkinsFor my daughter for Christmas14:28
awilkinsdwatkins, All but a tenner14:28
bigcalmI prefer to use clubcard points on meals out. Get 4 times the face value that way14:30
awilkinsI actually don't have one14:31
bigcalmHave one what?14:31
awilkinsPossibly I am a stupid tinfoil hat wearing gimp, since they no doubt tie my purchase history to my CC hashes anyway14:31
mgdmhas anyone used the Hudl? What Android version is it on, and what's the UI like?14:32
bigcalmI quite like the offers they send to us14:32
directhexawilkins, they can't legally tie purchase history to credit card numbers14:32
directhexawilkins, which is the only reason to create clubcard14:32
awilkinsHas anyone ROOTED the Hudl and can I nuke it with KitKat as soon as my daughter gets it14:32
awilkinsdirecthex, What about hashes?14:32
bigcalmmgdm: wonderful screen. quick and smooth. I think it's running 4.2, but might be 4.314:33
directhexmgdm, it's stock android, except with a "T" button on the home/back/switch row to launch tesco apps14:33
directhexmgdm, and it's on ICS14:33
mgdmah ha, thanks14:33
directhexawilkins, you can't use data for purposes other than which they were provided for. data protection act basics. so hashes no different. they can't track you by credit card as they didn't gather your credit card number for that purpose14:34
* mgdm will probably stick to acquiring a Nexus 7 some time soonish14:34
directhexthe hudl is excellent for £914:34
bigcalmmgdm: 4.2.2 (just checked)14:34
mgdmdirecthex: CC points?14:34
mgdmbigcalm: ta14:34
directhexmgdm, exactly14:34
directhexmgdm, it's £119, and you can get £10 hudl/accessory vouchers, for £5 in CC points14:35
directhexit's archos underneath, fwiw14:35
directhexrockchip soc, iirc14:35
mgdmdirecthex: Hmm, might look into that then14:36
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
mungbeanwhats the deal with hudl?14:49
MartijnVdSBig Tesco is Watching You ?14:50
mungbeandirecthex: how many clubcard ££ did you spend on it?14:50
directhexmungbean, £5514:50
mungbeani spent mine on RAC :(14:51
mungbeanso u ditched ur touchpad?14:51
AzelphurAnyone know how to wipe the cache/cookies/... for a specific site in chromium?14:53
dwatkinsAzelphur: this plugin might work in Chromium, I use it in Chrome for this https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/clear-cache/cppjkneekbjaeellbfkmgnhonkkjfpdn?hl=en14:54
Azelphurlooks handy14:55
directhexmungbean, yes14:56
mungbeanmine is limping along, slow and battered14:57
Azelphurlol found a "solution" just launch the page I'm trying to look at in incognito mode! \o/14:57
ali1234AlanBell: wifi isn't just shared with other wifi devices, it's shared with everything that generates RFI14:58
* MartijnVdS has a Wi-Spy, which shows this nicely14:59
ali1234it's also half-duplex by nature14:59
MartijnVdSali1234: sure, but a network with 20 devices on it shouldn't have a max speed of (max speed of AP)/2015:00
penguin42MartijnVdS: No, it's much worse than that15:02
MartijnVdSpenguin42: not on 802.11n at least15:02
AlanBellyeah, wifi is slow, but it shouldn't be as slow as I am measuring15:03
penguin42really? I'd expected to have a lot of collision overhead15:03
ali1234wireless max speeds are only achievable with the devices right next to each other inside a faraday cage15:03
MartijnVdSpenguin42: oh sure, but it's not a timeslot thing -- when 20 devices are connected to a wifi network, and only 1 device (and the AP) are actively active, speed should be near-optimal15:03
AlanBellyup, but I can't see any evidence of N existing15:04
ali1234maybe your driver doesn't support it15:04
MartijnVdSAlanBell: iw wlan0 link15:04
AlanBelland nowhere near the 54Gb/sec that G should do15:04
MartijnVdSAlanBell: do you have an (older) intel chip?15:04
ali1234i have never seen 54G do better than 10mbit15:05
ali1234and usually it's more like 5mbit15:05
AlanBelliw dev wlan0 link15:06
AlanBellwlan1 in my case15:06
MartijnVdSAlanBell: 135 megabits link, on a 40MHz wide channel15:07
MartijnVdSAlanBell: what kind of speeds are you getting (Wifi -> wired and wifi->wifi)15:07
MartijnVdS-58dBm isn't bad either15:07
MartijnVdSAlanBell: you could look for interference with something like this: http://www.ebay.it/itm/Wi-spy-2-4i-analizzatore-di-spettro-a-2-4GHz-WI-FI-/15076496347615:11
MartijnVdS(it's the old model but it works fine -- it's a 2.4GHz receiver, you can use the "spectools" package to use it in Ubuntu)15:12
AlanBellsomething has changed, this is looking OK http://paste.ubuntu.com/6411123/15:13
AlanBellthat was wired to wifi, both proper computers15:13
MartijnVdSAlanBell: the microwave is off? neighbors on same channel stopped downloading?15:13
penguin42slightly drier air? It chose a different channel?15:14
MartijnVdSAlanBell: 5GHz vs 2.4?15:14
MartijnVdSali1234: those seem quite wired15:15
MartijnVdSali1234: but my new laptop doesn't even come with an ethernet port!15:15
MartijnVdSsignal: -36 dBm15:16
MartijnVdStx bitrate: 300.0 MBit/s MCS 15 40Mhz short GI15:16
MartijnVdSso I'm not complaining or anything..15:16
AlanBellhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-SG1024D-24-Port-Gigabit-Rackmount/dp/B003UWXFM0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384355768&sr=8-1&keywords=tp+link+24+port+switch is what I was thinking of15:16
ali1234it's only 24 port...15:16
MartijnVdSit's tp-link15:16
MartijnVdS(which tends to be fine for wifi, but I don't know if they know >8 port switches very well)15:17
AlanBellit is also gigabit, which might be handy for other things one day15:17
MartijnVdSAlanBell: yeah, my home network is gigabit :)15:17
ali1234you want gigabit for this15:17
MartijnVdSAlanBell: in preparation of the 500/500 uplink I'm getting :)15:18
popey\o/ GbE15:18
popey[  3]  0.0-10.0 sec  1.09 GBytes   934 Mbits/sec15:18
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|tea
bigcalmHumm, this isn't my terminal15:27
bigcalmAs you were15:27
davmor2bigcalm: this isn't the terminal you are looking for15:28
AlanBellits tail is too fluffy15:29
* bigcalm clutches his head15:29
bigcalmDamn pains15:29
AlanBellBus 001 Device 004: ID 0bda:8176 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8188CUS 802.11n WLAN Adapter15:29
AlanBellthat is really slow15:29
bigcalmAlanBell: fluffy?15:29
=== alan_g|tea is now known as alan_g
* penguin42 finds a load of computer catalogues from ~9115:31
=== webpigeon is now known as Guest92394
DJonesok, for all the dog haters/cat lovers out there, this is a picture specially for you https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/q71/1470363_598597980225237_945445698_n.jpg15:36
penguin42Acorn R260 8MB for only #491315:36
DJonespenguin42: What are front covers advertising as the latest and greatest15:39
mungbeanimagine if you invested that money into acorn shares instead15:41
mungbeanin 9115:41
mungbeanyou could retire now15:42
penguin42DJones: Well, a catalogue with A Sparcstation 2 (#12400 !)15:44
penguin42or an HP Apollo 9000/425t15:45
penguin42FX-850 printer15:45
SuperMatt*grumble* I've just compiled nginx from source on two different machines, but with the packages, and one it working and the other isn't :(15:46
DJonesI can remember the printer (or at least very similar), it was almost as good as a shredder15:46
penguin42SuperMatt: I think there is an nginx dev that hangs out in -bugs or +115:47
SuperMattI'm just having a bit of a moan15:47
LaneyAlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer: saw this and thought of you http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/debian-uk/2013-November/000234.html15:47
TheOpenSourcererLaney: Thanks but Lancashire! Ewww. That's 'tup North.15:48
Laneynice scenery, nice beer15:49
Laneyit'd be rate grate15:49
DJonesHome of the Black Pudding15:49
mgdmNaaa. Stornoway is the home of the black pudding. ;-)15:50
penguin42Laney: Hmm they should try a ManLUG list15:50
Laneymight have done too15:50
DJonesmgdm: Didn't realise it was traditional there as well, just reading up, also says its traditional in the west midlands as well15:51
TheOpenSourcererThere are a couple of OpenERP partners up that way too.15:52
TheOpenSourcererThank "What Giants" are in Leeds15:53
TheOpenSourcererOpus & Credativ are in the midlands.15:54
BigRedSSuperMatt: I thought I read this morning that you'd abandoned nginx? :)15:56
SuperMatton my blog?15:57
SuperMattthat's just personal use stuff15:57
SuperMattI still have a requirement for it as a reverse proxy on company web servers15:58
penguin42TheOpenSourcerer: Excuse me, Leeds is on the other side of the pennines!15:58
BigRedSSuperMatt: yeah15:59
BigRedSwe used it briefly for reverse proxying before deciding it was an arse. we generally use varnish now15:59
SuperMattI don't blame you16:00
BigRedSmost of the time we want a reverse proxy we want an accelerator16:00
SuperMattactually, it's mroe being used as a load balancer16:00
TheOpenSourcererHave mailed Sam. Thanks Laney16:00
BigRedSyeah; I'd decided it was an arse before we started using it :)16:00
TheOpenSourcererpenguin42: North is simply north to me.16:00
Laneycool, ta for following up16:00
BigRedSvarnish can do that, too :)16:00
SuperMattthe one thing I want is for it to continue to use the same backend despite config reloads16:01
TheOpenSourcererI did a "North-o-meter" test on Facebook the other day and was very proud to have scored 0% Northishness.16:01
SuperMattso I can add extra backends and it continue using the same one16:01
SuperMattfor ws:// connections16:01
mgdmI doubt I'd run ws:// through Varnish16:02
LaneyI got a few percent I think16:02
Laneywas in Bournemouth16:02
mungbeani'm considering blocking anyone who does the northometer on my facebook16:02
BigRedSI got "20%; around London" which was exactly correct16:02
SuperMattyou're just jealous of my 0%16:02
SuperMattmgdm: what would you use then?16:02
TheOpenSourcererMine said 0% and somewhere near Jersey ;-)16:02
arsen60% ftw.16:02
BigRedSSuperMatt: yeah, not sure if it can do that. I interact with it very little and keep getting mailservers to deal with instead :(16:03
mgdmSuperMatt: probably something lower-level. Running WS stuff through a pipe in Varnish ties up a connection16:03
Laneyarsen: what is a barm cake?16:03
SuperMattmailservers are the worst16:03
SuperMattmgdm: fair enough16:03
BigRedSI like to think I'm on a journey towards a zen-like understanding of them16:03
arsencrappy bun iirc, Laney16:03
ali1234Laney: it's what is called a cob in nottingham16:03
arseni live in SW London, i'd not say the north-o-meter is very accurate.16:03
SuperMattI wonder if maybe I should just stick ha proxy at the front of my webserver and direct the traffic that way16:03
SuperMattbut I have no experience of haproxy16:04
ali1234londoners would probably call it a bread roll16:04
SuperMattdepends on the type of roll16:04
SuperMattcould be a baguette16:04
arsenanyone who knows what i mean when i say "stop being a mardy and eat a cob" is living on a higher plane of existence. welcome.16:04
SuperMattI never hear anyone saying cob16:04
arsenthen you are a lowbie.16:04
SuperMattI am16:04
SuperMattI very rarely spend time beyond zone 2 in north london16:05
SuperMattsorry, make that zone 316:05
arseni try to avoid north london altogether.16:05
SuperMattI love it16:05
arsencob is a nottingham thing.16:06
BigRedSnorth london's the best bit of london16:06
BigRedSwell, the southerly bit of north london16:06
Laneyyeah I hear cob16:06
Laneythere's a sandwich shop down the road called 'the cob stop'16:07
arsenwhere are you, Laney ?:)16:07
Laneythe place to be16:09
arsendidn't know anyone in NG knew what Linux was :D16:12
arsenOne day i'll consider moving back to notts, i miss chips n gravy.16:12
SuperMattyou know you can just add your own gravy, right?16:13
SuperMattcheese and cheese is supposed to be the thing down here, but I'm finding fewer and fewer places doing it16:13
BigRedScheese and cheese? Sounds ideal16:13
arsencheesey chips is a national thing16:14
arsenbut down south they either never sell gravy, or offer some godawful "Curry" sauce.16:14
BigRedSyeah, I've seen that all over the place. Though I don't recall seeing it in London16:14
TheOpenSourcererI though Chips and cheese was a welsh thing.16:15
SuperMattput simply, I want chips and cheese!16:15
SuperMattsomeone please give it to me16:15
ali1234move to canada16:15
TheOpenSourcererWhen we play golf in Swansea that's what they sell in the after drinking chip/kebab shops16:15
Laneythere's NLUG but apparently they're quite 'boozy'16:15
TheOpenSourcererNever heard of it until going there.16:15
Laneyif you like that kind of thing16:16
davmor2popey: bigcalm: VM have they changed their lease time my router is only staying on for an hour at a time before a release and renew happens16:16
popeywhich modem?16:16
bigcalmdavmor2: I haven't been notified of such. And my IP address doesn't appear to have changed for a long time16:16
davmor2bigcalm: Remaining Lease Time16:17
davmor20 days 00:45:2416:17
bigcalmdavmor2: I'd say there was a problem in your area16:17
davmor2popey: TP-link  plugged into the super hub16:17
bigcalmExpires: 1d 17h 37m 18s16:18
bigcalmConnected: 40d 6h 20m 36s16:18
davmor2popey: I noticed it since Monday evening every hour irc stopped and restarted16:18
* bigcalm hugs his router16:18
* penguin42 had seen a couple of odd drops in the alst few days16:18
popeynot seen that here16:19
popeyI have the same IP I have had for ages16:19
bigcalmUptime of router itself: 126d 2h 42m 12s16:19
bigcalmQuite pleasing to have stable hardware for a change16:19
davmor2popey: my ip isn't changing that's the annoying thing16:20
davmor2I'll give VM a ring I think16:20
bigcalmHave fun with their menu system16:23
penguin42davmor2: You're going to try and phone VM about something that isn't actually completely dead?16:25
shaunois there anywhere else I should be looking for usb messages, other than kern.log ?16:28
penguin42shauno: What USB issues do you have?16:29
shaunoSD cards aren't showing up when I stick them in my cardreader16:30
penguin42shauno: Even after a cold boot?16:31
penguin42shauno: And is it an external reader or internal?16:31
shaunothe reader is showing up itself as sdb through sde, but no sign of anything attached to them when I put a card in  (external)16:31
penguin42does /proc/partitions show anything on the sdb/sde sizes?16:32
shaunoit doesn't mention them at all, just sda (the fixed disk)16:33
penguin42if it's external, what happens if you plug it in with the SD card already in?16:33
shaunoexactly the same message as without16:33
penguin42how big an SD?16:34
shaunotwo cards, both 4gig, both sdhc16:35
shaunohm that's a point actually.  I wonder if this reader's too old for those16:35
Myrttioh my gawd, there's a giant meerkat in my living room16:39
AlanBelldo you have a normal sized one to compare it to?16:40
MyrttiAlanBell: do you mean that I should.... compare the meerkats?16:40
davmor2hahaha so they are sending out and engineer who won't be able to do anything I imagine as it is likely a issue on their end genius thank you india16:42
davmor2Myrtti: man you need to stop eating those mushrooms16:43
penguin42shauno: Yeh that's what I was thinking, I've got an external reader that won't manage more than 116:43
shaunogoing nuts trying to dd an image to a card.  osx keeps giving up with a variety of errors, and I can't find anything else to test them on16:44
MyrttiAlanBell, davmor2: http://flickr.com/gp/myrtti/b0o5b116:48
SuperMattshauno: if dd is giving you errors, I would assume a disk somewhere is properly fubared16:48
penguin42shauno: You do realise SD cards are made of cheese?16:48
davmor2Myrtti: that's one big sergey :D16:49
shaunotrying to rule out that osx is drunk first, because a) it usually is, and b) I'm too lazy to go find more 4GB cards16:50
SuperMattmaybe boot ubuntu from a memory stick16:53
penguin42shauno: Do you have something like a camera that exposes it's SD via usb?16:54
shaunonope, still compactflash16:55
* penguin42 blinks16:56
penguin42shauno: Is that very old compactflash or very highend compact flash ?16:56
shaunoit's 2005 I guess16:56
shaunoI mean, it was an $800 camera.  but it's also quite old now.16:57
penguin42hmm, only his 1st cheap cam was CF - I think that was more 2000 ish16:57
penguin42ah ok, higher end16:57
* penguin42 finds some code he wrote in 2002 to download from it :-)16:57
penguin42cheap early digi16:58
shaunoman, if amazon keep it up like this, it's going to be easier to go into town to shop17:09
directhexThe following packages have unmet dependencies:17:09
directhex linux-image-3.2.0-56-virtual : Conflicts: linux-image-3.2.0-56-virtual:i386 but 3.2.0-56.86 is to be installed.17:09
directhex linux-image-3.2.0-56-virtual:i386 : Conflicts: linux-image-3.2.0-56-virtual but 3.2.0-56.86 is installed.17:09
shaunohah, okay. Amazon won't ship SD cards to Ireland.17:11
directhexspecial anti-piracy tax?17:12
SuperMatthave you tried going to amazon.ie?17:13
shaunoit just redirects you to .co.uk17:14
shaunoah, there we are .. right at the bottom of http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201337930  .. items that can be delivered to the UK only includes "Blank media items, such as blank CDs and DVDs ."17:15
directhexspecial anti-piracy tax.17:15
SuperMattblank media tax, what a con. It's not like they can prove you're going to use the blank media for piracy17:20
SuperMattactually, let me summarise that last sentence17:21
SuperMatttax, what a con.17:21
shaunonot sure why that's an issue, can't they just charge me it?17:24
shaunooh well.  got them from .de instead.  the shipping is still cheaper than a bus into town17:25
shaunoreally though, what a silly tax. especially on SD cards, whose primary use is probably cameras  (and smuggling movies into prisons)17:31
shaunounrelated topic, when did PCs start combining esata & usb2 into the same port?17:39
penguin42oh there's some pseudo standard for that17:43
penguin42I think it technically violates both standards but works well17:44
shaunoI've got one on a hp probook here, took me a while to figure out what it is.  still haven't figured out what the port next to it is17:44
penguin42http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESATAp - huh hadn't realised there was a variation with 12v17:46
shaunohttp://cl.ly/image/2X2a3H0k382h   I see usb+esata, usb, and then ..17:52
penguin42display port?17:52
penguin42http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort  yep17:52
mgdmI have one on a ThinkPad17:53
shaunointeresting.  I've only ever seen mini-dp in the wild17:53
mgdmit's electrically not unlike HDMI, but about one-eighth as useful, as you have to get an adapter to plug it into anything17:54
penguin42theoretically you can do funky things with them - like chain multiple DP monitors off them17:54
mgdmand unlike mini-DP adapters they'renot common17:54
penguin42some monitors do DP - bit rare though17:54
shaunoyeah I'm used to that on mine.  I never actually use mini-dp.  I have mini-dp to dvi-d, mini-dp to hdmi, mini-dp to ethernet .. but nothing that uses mini-dp itself17:55
penguin42the multiple independent displays is the most interesting feature17:56
shaunoodd to stick it with the usb connectors though, instead of with the vga on the back.  oh well.  maybe I'll find a use for it one day17:56
penguin42shauno: The VGA connector is probably where it is just because it's bigger17:57
shaunoI think it makes some sense to have it on the back though.  same with the network connector.  things you don't reach for on a regular basis17:57
penguin42depends on your use, if you pick it up every day or a few times a day to go to meeting rooms it's a pain17:58
popeygolly http://blog.xamarin.com/microsoft-and-xamarin-partner-globally/17:58
shaunobut meeting rooms all use vga :)17:58
shaunovga's already on the back with phone & network.  I plug two of the three in pretty much everywhere I go17:59
penguin42popey: Oh interesting, they were the guys who got the SuSE/MS partnership weren't they?18:00
penguin42popey: Thing is a lot of people like C#18:00
popeynot surprising really18:00
popeyyeah, and it's cross platform18:00
penguin42there's perhaps nothing else as cross platform and that's not Java18:01
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD
penguin42popey: Hmm interesting timing: http://ceylon-lang.org/blog/2013/11/12/ceylon-1/18:37
popeyso many new things18:48
bigcalmOops, gonna be late for the LUG19:02
* bigcalm slithers away19:02
popeyooh http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03hybnv19:16
MartijnVdSpopey: tomorrow! :)19:17
MartijnVdSpopey: did you see http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01lg91q as well?19:18
=== ali12341 is now known as ali1234
MartijnVdSscreenshotting while youtubing = fun19:50
shaunoah.  sigsur1 doesn't get bsd's dd to print stats.  it just exits.  awkward.20:01
MartijnVdSyay GNU extensions20:01
shaunoapparently it's siginfo on bsd20:02
MartijnVdSsure, invent a new signal20:02
shaunoI'm used to them being a bit weird at times, but why die on usr1?  argh20:02
MartijnVdSbecause that's the default action20:03
MartijnVdSshauno: Other things I dislike about BSD: ls -ls foo* vs ls foo* -la20:03
MartijnVdSshauno: and "find -name foo" vs "find . -name foo"20:03
shaunooh my favourite gripe is that gnu's dd takes bs=1M, bsd's takes bs=1m.  neither will accept the 'wrong' case20:04
shaunoit's just so petty, yet I still get it wrong most the time20:05
MartijnVdSMy old old job used to be a BSD shop, but every sysadmin now prefers Debian (so they're almost done converting)20:06
MartijnVdSMy old job was a FreeBSD shop20:07
MartijnVdSMy current job is an Ubuntu shop \o/20:07
penguin42It's like ssh and scp - wth does one take -p and the other -P20:08
MartijnVdSisn't that another BSD project?20:08
shaunoso this seems to be where I'm going wrong .. 135004160 bytes transferred in 189.261896 secs (713319 bytes/sec)20:09
shaunothat's terribly, terribly slow.  makes my transfer 5558 seconds (for 4gig)20:10
MartijnVdSwhat kind of underlying device/fs/etc?20:10
shaunosd card from my ssd20:10
MartijnVdSSD cards *are* slow20:11
penguin42and made from cheese20:12
penguin42shauno: What block size, what vendors SD card ?20:12
shaunotranscend card, sdhc class 6 (so should be 6MB/s)20:14
penguin42and how are you writing?20:15
shaunodefault blocksize, so 51220:15
penguin42oh god right20:15
shaunonot sure if it's wise to change it, since the image was pulled at the same?20:16
penguin42shauno: Yeh, bad idea - the SD cards tend to have BIG blocks, so writing small things mean reading the big block, making a change, and then writing again and then doing the next bit20:16
AlanBellyou can change it, that is fine20:16
penguin42shauno: You just dd ing onto it? just use bs=1M20:16
ali1234make sure you're not running it on USB1 as well20:18
shaunoit's not on usb.  tis a weird one20:19
ali1234some laptops have pci attached readers20:19
ali1234they are pretty rare though20:19
ali1234and really buggy on linux :/20:19
shaunoyeah, mac has it pcie-attached.  which is annoying, because it means vmware can't find it20:20
MartijnVdScan't vmware forward pci(e) devices as well as usb?20:27
shaunofusion doesn't.  they've simplified a whole lot on the mac one.  we don't get the regular Workstation20:29
shaunothey give me a key for WS, just not an osx build of it :(20:29
shaunoit's a shame it's the OS that I'm trying to write to this, else it'd be faster to push it across the network20:31
shauno(yes that sounds obvious, but the machine only has 128k serial)20:38
Azelphurhttp://bitcoinity.org/markets bitcoin looks set to hit $400 sometime nowish :)21:16
diddledanAzelphur: it's now 440?!22:28
Azelphurdiddledan: mtgox is artificially inflated, use the bitstamp rate.22:28
Azelphurits hovering around $399 to wind me up :P22:29
Azelphurbig wall at 400 \o/22:29
diddledanhow's it got so expensive?22:30
diddledanexpensive - worth so much22:30
Azelphurdo you mean how is bitcoin so expensive in general, or how mtgox is artificially inflated?22:30
diddledanbitcoin in general22:30
Azelphursimple answer :)22:31
diddledanI know it is based on exactly the same principles as standard currency but I just can't seem to wrap my head around it22:32
Azelphurdiddledan: I think a lot of people seem to be confused by it22:32
diddledanI guess I'm turning into a fuddy duddy :-p22:32
AzelphurI guess the reason I understand it is because from a very young age I learned that virtual currency was valuable22:32
Azelphureven game money22:32
diddledanAzelphur: the point that the british banks refuse to have anything to do with anyone who mentions they're backed by bitcoins proves that22:33
mgdmI remember stories about WoW gold having a comparable exchange rate to some small countries22:33
diddledanI think the banking issue is partly because they have no control over it22:33
mgdmdiddledan: that's absolutely it. they can't tax it22:34
mgdmor trace it22:34
Azelphurit's a money laundering nightmare22:34
Azelphurbut then, the entire concept of money laundering is fairly ludicrous anyway.22:34
Azelphur"Oh someone robbed someone else and then spent the money at your shop? That's your fault!"22:35
Myrttidwatkins: https://github.com/thiderman/doge/23:21
dwatkinsMyrtti: oh my23:30
dwatkinsdid you see the MLP terminal application?23:31
Myrttipft mlp23:31
shaunoI wonder if you can include that crazy ansi stuff in .cow files23:33
shaunoseems not; cowsay: Unrecognized character \x1B in column 98 at /usr/share/cowsay/cows/test.cow line 2.23:38
penguin42an escaped escape23:38
lubotu3Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience23:41
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away

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