[07:02] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:52] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:54] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
[08:54] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[08:54] <popey> Good morning!
[08:56] <brobostigon> morning hrh popey
[08:56] <MooDoo> How is everyone this fine day.
[08:57] <brobostigon> sneezy, and jobcentre signon day.
[08:57] <shauno> 9am and I'm downloading drivers for my amiga.  it's a good day!
[09:09] <diplo> Morning all
[09:16] <BigRedS> Goooooood Morning!
[09:17] <DJones> ali1234: Another bitcoin hack http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/13/bitcashcz_burgled_and_closed/
[09:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
[09:18] <ali1234> never heard of them either
[09:18] <BigRedS> ali1234: I'm beginning to think that's viewed as a feature when it comes to bitcoin exchanges
[09:19] <BigRedS> they seem to all prefer something that was knocked together by some kid after school one day to anything remotely designed
[09:19] <DJones> ali1234: I guess there are a lot of small exchanges
[09:19] <BigRedS> which is partly why I'm remaining distrustful of bitcoin in general - it's not that it's immature per se, it's that nobody particularly involved appears capable of foresight
[09:21] <BigRedS> Is there some form into which I can paste a MySQL bug number and find out which debian packages have patched it? It's not a security vuln
[09:22] <BigRedS> Oh. It's still in 5.6.12 apparently so I don't expect it's been patched anywhere in 5.1...
[09:23] <DJones> I don't think thats a bitcoin problem specifically, even regular banks get hacked & funds siphoned off, but they're normally covered up to protect the banks reputation, bitcoin is probably just gets more publicity at the moment because its comparatively new and the small exchanges don't have the deposits and the influence to keep a hack/theft quiet
[09:24] <ali1234> that and bank deposits are protected
[09:25] <SuperMatt> surely the difference is that banks have reserves and checks and regulation that says if any money goes missing the bank is responsible for ensuring the customer is treated fairly
[09:25] <SuperMatt> bitcoin has none of that
[09:25] <ali1234> banks don't have reserves
[09:26] <SuperMatt> well they should
[09:26] <DJones> SuperMatt: What banks have is influence to be able to hide a hack/theft, to my eyes, bitcoin is a lot more public, so when something goes wrong, it goes wrong in public
[09:27] <DJones> ali1234: Would you say that was a fair assesment
[09:27] <ali1234> not really
[09:27] <shauno> aren't banks insured by the state?  I'd have thought there's some equivalence to the FDIC in the US
[09:28] <ali1234> it's more like: fiat currency doesn't exist in the first place, so it's impossible to rob banks of any significant amount, since it's impossible for them to hold a reserve of something that doesn't exist
[09:28] <MartijnVdS> well it physically exists (as in, paper with numbers on them)
[09:28] <ali1234> the idea that banks lend out some fraction of deposits is completely untrue
[09:28] <ali1234> the only thing banks have is debt
[09:29] <DJones> shauno: Upto a limit of (I think) £30K if the bank completely crumbles (eg RBS & Lloyds), but a few million here or there is generally kept quiet & covered out of bank profits
[09:29] <BigRedS> well, they often have assets too, but they are a fraction of the debt rather than the other way around
[09:31] <BigRedS> but, yeah, the bigger problem than the perceived transparency is that when bitcoin goes wrong people other than the exchange lose out. When a bank goes wrong they must compensate their customers
[09:31] <BigRedS> and since there's no regulation of the exchanges there's not a huge incentive to be any good
[09:31] <ali1234> no, actually , that's not true either
[09:31] <ali1234> bank despotis are insured by the government
[09:31] <ali1234> when a bank crashes, the public pays via taxes
[09:32] <BigRedS> yeah, I meant for problems smaller than crashes, which are substantially less frequent in banks than they are in bitcoin exchanges
[09:32] <ali1234> bitcoin exchanges regularly pay for smaller mistakes
[09:32] <BigRedS> by 'go wrong' I mean 'gets broken into/compromised/robbed'
[09:33] <ali1234> if they didn't they would quickly lose all their customers
[09:33] <BigRedS> oh, maybe I've not been paying enough attention recently
[09:33] <ali1234> you just don't hear about it unless you have an account at the specific exchange
[09:34] <ali1234> you should really trust any exchange that hasn't been hacked
[09:34] <shauno> there doesn't seem to be any legal response in these though.  that's the unnerving bit
[09:34] <ali1234> it's only a matter of time really
[09:35] <DJones> The last couple bitcoin thefts that have been publicised appear to be more a case that the entire exchange has been wiped out either by internal/external theft leaving them with nothing, which would be comparable with Barclays having every fund held on deposit transferred out & the bank crashing
[09:35] <shauno> if 1m GBP is taken from a bank, there's a taskforce.  if the equivalence in BTC is hacked, there's a slashdot article
[09:35] <ali1234> also you shouldn't treat exchanges like banks in the first place
[09:35] <ali1234> DJones: yeah, that's cos you never hear about the small hacks that they recover from
[09:36] <DJones> ali1234: Agreed
[09:36] <DJones> Thats the same as the major banks, small (to them) thefts don't get reported either
[09:37] <ali1234> for example when btc-e were hacked the hacker could only withdraw the hot wallet (which is like robbing only the tills but not the vault)
[09:58] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Kindness Day! :-D
[09:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-*
[09:59] <MooDoo> JamesTait: pah get stuffed ;)
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: what kind?
[09:59] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, what kind of kindness?
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> just the regular kind, I guess?
[10:00]  * JamesTait hands MooDoo a coffee.
[10:00] <popey> kindness? http://media.sfx.co.uk/files/2011/09/Doctor-Who-The-Girl-Who-Waited-100911.jpg
[10:00] <MooDoo> JamesTait: thanks sie!
[10:00] <MooDoo> s/sie/sir
[10:00] <JamesTait> Thank you popey, very kind of you. :)
[10:01] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "Danken Sie" is (almost?) German :)
[10:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - Amy Pond. Can I say "phwaaar"?
[10:02] <BigRedS> is he looking through a magnifying glass at her bottom?
[10:02] <JamesTait> Looks that way.
[10:02] <MartijnVdS> that's her husband
[10:02] <MartijnVdS> so he's allowed to do that
[10:03] <JamesTait> He also looks quite astonished at what he sees.
[10:08] <SuperMatt> http://www.supermatt.net/2013/11/my-response-to-the-government-response/
[10:09] <SuperMatt> I just emailed my MP with this
[10:13] <SuperMatt> oh goodie, her surgury is open Friday morning, and I happen to have the day off work
[10:13] <SuperMatt> I know what I shall be doing
[10:20] <BigRedS> I forgot the topic had switched from Amy Pond and was a bit confused by those last two lines
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: well she WAS the doctor's companion
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> speakign of which.. tomorrow: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03hybnv
[10:22] <BigRedS> Oh yeah, I want to see that
[10:26] <popey> SuperMatt / MooDoo how are the hangouts going?
[10:26] <MooDoo> popey: supermatt has done quite a few, I don't have my invite from google yet, so don't have a helpout url.
[10:27] <MooDoo> they seem to be going ok, although from what SuperMatt has been saying a lot of helpouts he's done have been a lot more involved that new users
[10:27] <MooDoo> s/than
[10:27] <SuperMatt> indeed
[10:27] <ali1234> not surprised really
[10:27] <ali1234> ubuntu just isn't that hard to use
[10:28] <SuperMatt> and it's a little frustrating that large numbers of people keep not turning up
[10:28] <ali1234> if you can't figure out how to install it, you probably can't figure out how to use hangouts either
[10:28] <ali1234> SuperMatt: do you charge? if so, do you still get pad if people don't show?
[10:28] <SuperMatt> I don't charge
[10:29] <ali1234> well... maybe you should?
[10:29] <SuperMatt> if they don't show for a paid one, you get 50% of the first 15 minutes of a per minute charge
[10:29] <SuperMatt> it's a tricky balance
[10:29] <ali1234> i would charge at least 25p/minute
[10:30] <SuperMatt> that's £15 an hour, and some of the helpouts go on to about that
[10:30] <SuperMatt> it's way more than I want to charge people
[10:30] <ali1234> yes, exactly
[10:31] <SuperMatt> an alternative I've been thinking about running is changing people a nominal fee, say £5 an hour, and then paying it back to people when theyd o show
[10:31] <popey> why not charge people?
[10:31] <ali1234> and why not charge people a fair amount for the work?
[10:31] <popey> yeah, that's what I'd do
[10:32] <ali1234> £15/hour is cheap for "phone" one-on-one support, when you don't have to go through first line
[10:32] <MooDoo> I think as it's a new idea, we're taking it slow, charging people will probably come when we've ironed out the kinks
[10:33] <SuperMatt> google are looking in to options for charging for no shows, but still allowing free sessions
[10:34] <SuperMatt> but I might start charging a fiver
[10:34] <SuperMatt> because the no shows have really put me off doing it
[10:34] <popey> well
[10:34] <popey> part of the reason for no-show is not charging
[10:34] <SuperMatt> sure
[10:34] <popey> if you charge people are more likely to come
[10:35] <SuperMatt> indeed
[10:35] <ali1234> even if you only charge £1 it will get rid of the timewasters
[10:35] <SuperMatt> true
[10:36] <SuperMatt> I'm gonna try 10p a minute, we can see how things go
[10:37] <popey> whats the average for existing tech support people?
[10:37] <SuperMatt> there's a lot of free stuff going on
[10:38] <SuperMatt> some people run two, a sort of free clinic, and a paid version
[10:38] <popey> $1/m seems common
[10:39] <SuperMatt> what I might do is have my "free clinic" always run from 6.30-7.30, and after that you have to pay
[10:42] <SuperMatt> I'll run that as an experiment next week
[10:43] <popey> you should blog more ☻
[10:43] <SuperMatt> should I?
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> yes
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> and yes
[10:43] <SuperMatt> about my experiences with helpouts?
[10:44] <SuperMatt> there, I've configured a free clinic helpout (waiting for review) and a paid version
[10:47] <popey> yes, there's only one post so far
[10:47] <SuperMatt> righto
[10:47] <SuperMatt> I'll do it later today
[10:47] <SuperMatt> busy now writing an internal wiki entry on cgroups
[10:49] <bashrc> what did people do before wikis?
[10:53] <SuperMatt> copious amounts of word documents, which got emailed around so everyone had different versions
[10:54] <BigRedS> people still do that
[10:54] <SuperMatt> very true
[10:58] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:58] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:59] <davmor2> Ow do MooDoo
[11:05] <penguin42> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNkDJk5_9eU    someone has been doing odd things to their geekos
[11:07] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:07] <MooDoo> moring bigcalm
[11:08] <bigcalm> Howdy MooDoo
[11:10] <MooDoo> :D
[11:10] <arsen> christ
[11:10] <MooDoo> arsen: what a greeting, but no, MooDoo is fine ;)
[11:10] <arsen> :D
[11:10] <arsen> i'm not sure SuSE should be allowed to do that
[11:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: you having steak tonight by any chance?
[11:11] <bigcalm> davmor2: we shall see. No guarantee
[11:11] <bigcalm> davmor2: I see we might have a Mr Evil with us tonight
[11:12] <bigcalm> davmor2: what are the chances that Pete shows up just to taunt him? :)
[11:12] <davmor2> bigcalm: I know I nearly fell outta my seat when I saw that :D
[11:12] <davmor2> bigcalm: nil Pete is a wuss
[11:12] <MooDoo> arsen: oh dear, hmmm we could do our own....what does popey say?
[11:12] <bigcalm> Hehe
[11:13] <popey> I think it's a surprisingly well done spoof
[11:13] <arsen> it is, but .. suse? really? :/
[11:13] <bigcalm> What does the jonno say? Community-community-community-community-community
[11:13] <MooDoo> czajkowski: goes aloha, bigcam goes....oh I see it now ;)
[11:13] <arsen> having to suffer SuSE on a daily basis, and having recently interacted with some of their employees - i'm surprised they came up with that.
[11:14] <popey> kinda surprised the video hasn't had more views
[11:14] <popey> but yeah, suse
[11:14] <arsen> shame it wasn't a tux one inspired one.
[11:14] <bigcalm> What video are you peeps talking about?
[11:14] <arsen> that makes no sense, but you understand what i tried to type.
[11:14] <MooDoo> hasn't had more views
[11:14] <MooDoo> 10:14 < popey> but yeah, suse
[11:14] <MooDoo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNkDJk5_9eU
[11:14] <BigRedS> shouldn't they be fixing yast rather than making silly videos?
[11:14] <MooDoo> this one BigRedS
[11:14] <arsen> ^
[11:15] <penguin42> BigRedS: Perhaps this is what they do in the long dark evenings
[11:15] <popey> mission accomplished though, we all saw it ☻
[11:15] <MooDoo> you do realise we'll have to do one "what does the tahr say" before next april ;)
[11:15] <ali1234> presumably it was made for the conference which is currently happening?
[11:15] <arsen> on that note - anyone used an alternative to NIS/YP in an enterprise environment? ideally with ubuntu?
[11:16] <arsen> hah i got an invite to that, ali1234
[11:16] <bigcalm> Oh my, that was a bit silly
[11:16] <MooDoo> liny goes...pangolin goes .... and the ocelot says ow ow ow ;)
[11:17] <MooDoo> ok i'll shut up
[11:17] <popey> MooDoo: no, because by april the meme will be older than it already is
[11:17] <popey> it would be like making spoofs of the "I'm a PC" apple advert
[11:17] <popey> Hello Novell!
[11:17] <ali1234> that could actually be quite funny
[11:17] <MooDoo> hehe I know just making me smile :D
[11:18] <popey> being funny and being current are different things
[11:18] <MooDoo> pah!
[11:18] <ali1234> yeah, but you could do it ironically, in order to make fun of suse
[11:19] <popey> oh, meta
[11:19] <penguin42> arsen: People tend to use ldap these days
[11:20] <arsen> "would you like to come to the SuSE conference?"    " .. i'd rather fork my own eyes out."
[11:20] <ali1234> one conference is very much like another
[11:20] <arsen> crap? :)
[11:20] <ali1234> well it beats working
[11:20] <arsen> i duno, i've been to some...
[11:21] <arsen> free food and booze is nice, and if its somewhere expenses paid in a nice location with travel.. maybe.
[11:21] <BigRedS> ali1234: the conferency bit, perhaps. But the reason to go is the lunch and that is a variable
[11:21] <davmor2> MooDoo: the Tahr bleets it's a goat D'oh.  That or it sings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyixC9NsLI
[11:21] <popey> UDS in Texas had an awesome BBQ
[11:22] <bigcalm> popey: was that the one where you went with a beach ball?
[11:22] <popey> no, that was Oakland
[11:23] <bigcalm> That photo still haunts me
[11:23] <popey> hah
[11:23] <bigcalm> ;)
[11:24] <bigcalm> Oh, photos are slowly emerging from the wedding
[11:24] <arsen> I just did the Fujitsu one, it was a great .. event?
[11:24] <bigcalm> Who wants a laugh?
[11:24] <arsen> o/ bigcalm
[11:25] <popey> uhoh
[11:26] <BigRedS> haha
[11:27] <davmor2> bigcalm: go on then
[11:27] <bigcalm> popey: only from the photo booth so far. I note that you didn't use it?
[11:27] <arsen> the suspense...
[11:27] <bigcalm> http://hayleyandiainaregettingmarried.com/photos/nggallery/photos/photo-booth/
[11:27] <popey> ahh, no
[11:28]  * penguin42 wonders what that domain name is for
[11:29] <bigcalm> Unless you know the people in the photos, I guess they won't be that funny
[11:29] <bigcalm> penguin42: maybe I should have registered hayleyandiaingotmarried.com as well
[11:30] <davmor2> bigcalm: why does the bottom one of sweets actually suit him
[11:30] <bigcalm> popey: AlanBell: if either of you took photos and fancy sending them to me, we'd really appreciate it :)
[11:31] <bigcalm> davmor2: Ad was determined to keep a sullen expression the entire time. I made him laugh for the last one though :D
[11:33] <popey> http://www.ekoore.com/web/it/prodotti/go-watch/go-watch-2/panoramica-22.html
[11:34] <bigcalm> €130 nice
[11:35] <bigcalm> Bluetooth is a drain though
[11:37] <arsen> looks cool popey, i'm still not convinced there's a proper market for those though, unless it totally replaces the phone itself.
[11:39] <ali1234> i would buy a nice looking watch with a nice oled screen even if it wasn't a "smart" watch as long as it wasn't stupidly expensive
[11:46] <dwatkins> My watch buzzed and told me my SD card would be delivered shortly.
[11:46] <DJones> dwatkins: And then the watch ejected the SD card?
[11:50] <dwatkins> haha
[12:00] <ali1234> why doesn't autossh actually work?
[12:56] <mungbean> https://medium.com/thoughts-on-creativity/6f4cb1886d41
[12:56] <mungbean> it'll all end in tears when the house burns down and the dinos steal the car
[13:07] <Laney> my chair is now listing heavily
[13:07] <Laney> distressing creaks with every movement
[13:07] <Laney> might need to replace it ...
[13:19] <dwatkins> ali1234: I find you have to provide a numer with the -M option which isn't in use by another process, so I have an alias that uses -M $RANDOM in the line
[13:19] <dwatkins> *number
[13:26] <dwatkins> is there an easy way to get Flash to work from a USB stick having booted raring?
[13:26] <dwatkins> I don't see a flashplayer entry in the apt-cache search output
[13:28] <SuperMatt> you need to enable to extra sources
[13:28] <SuperMatt> only main is enabled in the iso
[13:28] <dwatkins> ah yes, I'm not installing so it never asked me the question
[13:29] <SuperMatt> flash is in multiverse
[13:29] <dwatkins> where does the .so file live inside the mozille installation directory, then? I can't see a plugins dir in /usr/share/mozilla
[13:29] <SuperMatt> /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
[13:29] <dwatkins> ah cool, I'll just create the directory, thanks SuperMatt
[13:30] <SuperMatt> you're welcome
[13:31] <dwatkins> sadly that appears not to be enough, perhaps it'll go into my homedirectory ok
[13:32] <SuperMatt> maybe
[13:32] <SuperMatt> fingers crossed
[13:32] <dwatkins> I could just install chromium, but I'm determined now ;)
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> XPS 12 - works fine with Ubuntu, except for one bug (if you keep the touch screen enabled, the trackpad doesn't do more than "basic mouse" features)
[13:33] <popey> heh https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/editions/2012-editions/express.aspx
[13:33] <popey> (scroll down)
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> (the rotating screen Dell laptop)
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> popey: nice community logo ;)
[13:34] <dwatkins> bingo
[13:34] <SuperMatt> they almost look like a group of friends in a circle
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: *um bongo?
[13:34] <dwatkins> it needed me to copy libflashplayer.so to ~/.mozilla/firefox/[$RANDOM_REFERENCE].default/plugins/
[13:34] <dwatkins> hehe
[13:35] <SuperMatt> dwatkins: yeah, that would deffo work :)
[13:35] <SuperMatt> any reason why you didn't just want to install from multiverse?
[13:35] <dwatkins> SuperMatt: not sure how I'd enable that after booting from USB
[13:36] <SuperMatt> edit /etc/apt/sources.list.d
[13:36] <SuperMatt> no
[13:36] <dwatkins> ah yes
[13:36] <dwatkins> done it before, come to think of it
[13:36] <SuperMatt> edit /etc/apt/sources.list
[13:36] <dwatkins> so long ago, when I installed 8.04, probably
[13:36] <SuperMatt> that was my first ubuntu
[13:36] <SuperMatt> haven't looked back since
[13:40] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: You've reported that you've now got Android 4.3 on your SGS3. Are you running stock? I'm still stuck on 4.1.2
[13:42] <dwatkins> SuperMatt: neither had I until the recent political fun with Mir vs Weyland, not sure how things might pan-out.
[13:54] <popey> Hmm, 4.4 is supposed to hit the N7 today
[13:56] <DJones> It hasn't hit mine or my wifes yet
[13:56] <popey> ditto
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> popey: old or new? or both>?
[13:56] <popey> both
[13:56] <popey> n10 too
[13:57] <DJones> Ours are new models
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> popey: OK, I'll probably get a call from my mother then :)
[13:58] <MooDoo> bigcalm: are you running stock as it's not been upgraded from 4.1.2 yet
[13:58] <bigcalm> MooDoo: I'm running whatever came with the phone from T-Mobile
[13:59] <MooDoo> bigcalm: i'm only running 4.3 as i'm using cyanogenmod
[13:59] <bigcalm> MooDoo: so Samsung's own fun
[13:59] <MooDoo> bigcalm: yeah basically updates from samsung are pants
[13:59] <directhex> android sucks for updates
[14:00] <DJones> For a 65 year old looking to buy a new desktop machine, for use with email/internet/word processing etc, can you think of a reason not to buy a cheapish machine with a celeron processor, he's not going to be a power user
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> directhex: not on Nexuses
[14:00] <MooDoo> carrier based android sucks, if you have a nexus it doesn't
[14:00] <directhex> no, it sucks on nexuses too, compared to iphone
[14:00] <directhex> it's just far far worse on not-nexus
[14:01] <MooDoo> ios7 nuff said lol ha ha ha ha haha ha ha
[14:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Yep - stock SGS3 not rooted. Got a note to update yesterday afternoon...
[14:01] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: which network?
[14:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Vodafone
[14:01] <bigcalm> Okay, ta
[14:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> np
[14:03] <directhex> MooDoo, yes, ios 7. which runs on iphone 4 (june 2010), i.e. iphones have >3 years of OS updates
[14:04] <directhex> MooDoo, that's older than the nexus S, which received its last OS update in October 2012
[14:04] <MooDoo> directhex: i was having a bit of fun sorry :D
[14:06] <davmor2> bigcalm: mine has the update available and I have no sim in it :)
[14:07] <bigcalm> Ah, I see
[14:07] <bigcalm> I bet it's because I have an early release of the hardware
[14:08] <davmor2> bigcalm: just go into setting and click on the update option
[14:08] <davmor2> bigcalm: I thought that got changed didn't you send it back?
[14:09] <bigcalm> davmor2: I did, but they sent the same device back
[14:09] <bigcalm> I've gone to software update many times. It always says I have the latest version installed
[14:09] <davmor2> bigcalm: Settings → About Device → Check for updates
[14:09] <bigcalm> Yes, I know
[14:11] <popey> directhex: what's the apple policy? last 3 supported devices get updates or something?
[14:12] <directhex> popey, no hard & fast policy afaik. just "3 years ish" seems to apply
[14:12] <directhex> no ios 7 for 3gs, but ios 6 was on there
[14:12] <awilkins> if( steve_needs_new_yacht() ) {
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: tim*
[14:13] <awilkins>         dont_update();
[14:13] <awilkins> } else {
[14:13] <awilkins>     do_update();
[14:13] <awilkins> }{
[14:13] <shauno> steve got a new yacht, and it's hideous :/
[14:13] <davmor2> bigcalm: switch of mobile data and then try on just wifi
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> shauno: yeah it came through my town
[14:14] <MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.alphens.nl/nieuws/overig/6428,iboat-van-steve-jobs-door-alphen.html
[14:14] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, The code hasn't been updated yet
[14:14] <bigcalm> davmor2: no change
[14:14] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: lesson: use titles/roles, not individual names ;)
[14:14] <shauno> lol, 'jacht' just loks wrong
[14:14] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, But yachts are such a personal preference...
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> shauno: it's pronounced the same, almost :)
[14:15] <davmor2> bigcalm: sucks to be you dude :D
[14:15] <bigcalm> :P
[14:18] <popey> my ipad is still rocking ios 5
[14:18] <popey> still gets used very often, more so than the newer/faster android tablets
[14:19] <MartijnVdS> I almost never use my Xoom, but I do use my Chromebook a lot
[14:19] <MartijnVdS> keyboard++
[14:20] <bigcalm> I use my Xoom quite a bit. It took a star role at my wedding
[14:20] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so you could remember your vows/
[14:20] <bigcalm> :P
[14:20] <shauno> I thought the star roles was meant to be hers :p
[14:21] <bigcalm> I said 'a', not 'the'
[14:21] <bigcalm> It was used as the photobooth
[14:21] <MartijnVdS> oh that's a cute idea :)
[14:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Think I might have been one of the (un)lucky ones then... http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/521732/20131113/samsung-galaxy-s3-4-3-jelly-bean.htm
[14:21] <MartijnVdS> my sister is marrying next summer, suggesting that now :)
[14:22] <awilkins> Are we discussing kitkat updates?
[14:22] <MooDoo> awilkins: any android updates :)
[14:22] <dwatkins> Talking about this version of Android is going to amuse me all the time.
[14:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Mine went to 4.3 yesterday evening.
[14:22] <dwatkins> I'm still on Gingerbread ;)
[14:22] <MooDoo> I'm on cyanogenmod, just waiting for 4.4 nightlies
[14:23] <dwatkins> I'm on CM 7.2, but my phone's so old they stopped updating it with new builds.
[14:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> I read with interest the new CM installer is now on Google Play.
[14:23] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: ah. I wonder if the SGS3 will see any more updates or if that's it
[14:23] <awilkins> Nexii 4 and 7.0, quite OK with where they are right now
[14:23] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: they've even stopped updating the xoom now (cyanogen)
[14:25] <dwatkins> heh, we have a Xoom in the office, it's a beast
[14:27] <bigcalm> My wife loves the Tesco Hudl I gave her
[14:27] <dwatkins> They're selling those at the Tesco near here, looks like a fairly good and recent Android version.
[14:28] <awilkins> My mother-in-law just got one on her Clubcard points
[14:28] <MartijnVdS> "Hudl"? A web 2.0 name!
[14:28] <dwatkins> free?
[14:28] <awilkins> For my daughter for Christmas
[14:28] <awilkins> dwatkins, All but a tenner
[14:30] <dwatkins> nice
[14:30] <bigcalm> I prefer to use clubcard points on meals out. Get 4 times the face value that way
[14:31] <awilkins> I actually don't have one
[14:31] <bigcalm> Have one what?
[14:31] <awilkins> Possibly I am a stupid tinfoil hat wearing gimp, since they no doubt tie my purchase history to my CC hashes anyway
[14:32] <awilkins> Clubcard
[14:32] <bigcalm> Ah
[14:32] <mgdm> has anyone used the Hudl? What Android version is it on, and what's the UI like?
[14:32] <bigcalm> I quite like the offers they send to us
[14:32] <directhex> awilkins, they can't legally tie purchase history to credit card numbers
[14:32] <directhex> awilkins, which is the only reason to create clubcard
[14:32] <awilkins> Has anyone ROOTED the Hudl and can I nuke it with KitKat as soon as my daughter gets it
[14:32] <awilkins> directhex, What about hashes?
[14:33] <bigcalm> mgdm: wonderful screen. quick and smooth. I think it's running 4.2, but might be 4.3
[14:33] <directhex> mgdm, it's stock android, except with a "T" button on the home/back/switch row to launch tesco apps
[14:33] <directhex> mgdm, and it's on ICS
[14:33] <mgdm> ah ha, thanks
[14:34] <directhex> awilkins, you can't use data for purposes other than which they were provided for. data protection act basics. so hashes no different. they can't track you by credit card as they didn't gather your credit card number for that purpose
[14:34]  * mgdm will probably stick to acquiring a Nexus 7 some time soonish
[14:34] <directhex> the hudl is excellent for £9
[14:34] <bigcalm> mgdm: 4.2.2 (just checked)
[14:34] <mgdm> directhex: CC points?
[14:34] <mgdm> bigcalm: ta
[14:34] <directhex> mgdm, exactly
[14:35] <directhex> mgdm, it's £119, and you can get £10 hudl/accessory vouchers, for £5 in CC points
[14:35] <directhex> it's archos underneath, fwiw
[14:35] <directhex> rockchip soc, iirc
[14:36] <mgdm> directhex: Hmm, might look into that then
[14:49] <mungbean> whats the deal with hudl?
[14:50] <MartijnVdS> Big Tesco is Watching You ?
[14:50] <mungbean> directhex: how many clubcard ££ did you spend on it?
[14:50] <directhex> mungbean, £55
[14:51] <mungbean> i spent mine on RAC :(
[14:51] <mungbean> so u ditched ur touchpad?
[14:53] <Azelphur> Anyone know how to wipe the cache/cookies/... for a specific site in chromium?
[14:54] <dwatkins> Azelphur: this plugin might work in Chromium, I use it in Chrome for this https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/clear-cache/cppjkneekbjaeellbfkmgnhonkkjfpdn?hl=en
[14:55] <Azelphur> looks handy
[14:56] <directhex> mungbean, yes
[14:57] <mungbean> mine is limping along, slow and battered
[14:57] <Azelphur> lol found a "solution" just launch the page I'm trying to look at in incognito mode! \o/
[14:58] <ali1234> AlanBell: wifi isn't just shared with other wifi devices, it's shared with everything that generates RFI
[14:59]  * MartijnVdS has a Wi-Spy, which shows this nicely
[14:59] <ali1234> it's also half-duplex by nature
[15:00] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: sure, but a network with 20 devices on it shouldn't have a max speed of (max speed of AP)/20
[15:02] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: No, it's much worse than that
[15:02] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: not on 802.11n at least
[15:03] <AlanBell> yeah, wifi is slow, but it shouldn't be as slow as I am measuring
[15:03] <penguin42> really? I'd expected to have a lot of collision overhead
[15:03] <ali1234> wireless max speeds are only achievable with the devices right next to each other inside a faraday cage
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: oh sure, but it's not a timeslot thing -- when 20 devices are connected to a wifi network, and only 1 device (and the AP) are actively active, speed should be near-optimal
[15:04] <AlanBell> yup, but I can't see any evidence of N existing
[15:04] <ali1234> maybe your driver doesn't support it
[15:04] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: iw wlan0 link
[15:04] <AlanBell> and nowhere near the 54Gb/sec that G should do
[15:04] <penguin42> M
[15:04] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: do you have an (older) intel chip?
[15:05] <ali1234> i have never seen 54G do better than 10mbit
[15:05] <ali1234> and usually it's more like 5mbit
[15:06] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6411084/
[15:06] <AlanBell> iw dev wlan0 link
[15:06] <AlanBell> wlan1 in my case
[15:07] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: 135 megabits link, on a 40MHz wide channel
[15:07] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: what kind of speeds are you getting (Wifi -> wired and wifi->wifi)
[15:07] <MartijnVdS> -58dBm isn't bad either
[15:11] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you could look for interference with something like this: http://www.ebay.it/itm/Wi-spy-2-4i-analizzatore-di-spettro-a-2-4GHz-WI-FI-/150764963476
[15:12] <MartijnVdS> (it's the old model but it works fine -- it's a 2.4GHz receiver, you can use the "spectools" package to use it in Ubuntu)
[15:13] <AlanBell> something has changed, this is looking OK http://paste.ubuntu.com/6411123/
[15:13] <AlanBell> that was wired to wifi, both proper computers
[15:13] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: the microwave is off? neighbors on same channel stopped downloading?
[15:14] <penguin42> slightly drier air? It chose a different channel?
[15:14] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: 5GHz vs 2.4?
[15:15] <ali1234> http://www.ebuyer.com/497518-d-link-48-10-100-1000-base-t-port-with-4-x-1000base-t-sfp-ports-dgs-1210-52
[15:15] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: those seem quite wired
[15:15] <ali1234> exactly
[15:15] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: but my new laptop doesn't even come with an ethernet port!
[15:16] <MartijnVdS> 	signal: -36 dBm
[15:16] <MartijnVdS> 	tx bitrate: 300.0 MBit/s MCS 15 40Mhz short GI
[15:16] <MartijnVdS> so I'm not complaining or anything..
[15:16] <AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-SG1024D-24-Port-Gigabit-Rackmount/dp/B003UWXFM0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384355768&sr=8-1&keywords=tp+link+24+port+switch is what I was thinking of
[15:16] <ali1234> it's only 24 port...
[15:16] <MartijnVdS> it's tp-link
[15:17] <MartijnVdS> (which tends to be fine for wifi, but I don't know if they know >8 port switches very well)
[15:17] <AlanBell> it is also gigabit, which might be handy for other things one day
[15:17] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yeah, my home network is gigabit :)
[15:17] <ali1234> you want gigabit for this
[15:18] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: in preparation of the 500/500 uplink I'm getting :)
[15:18] <popey> \o/ GbE
[15:18] <popey> [  3]  0.0-10.0 sec  1.09 GBytes   934 Mbits/sec
[15:18] <popey> \o/
[15:27] <bigcalm> r|~N^"vOp;)-ws60
[15:27] <bigcalm> Humm, this isn't my terminal
[15:27] <bigcalm> As you were
[15:28] <davmor2> bigcalm: this isn't the terminal you are looking for
[15:29] <AlanBell> its tail is too fluffy
[15:29]  * bigcalm clutches his head
[15:29] <bigcalm> Damn pains
[15:29] <AlanBell> Bus 001 Device 004: ID 0bda:8176 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8188CUS 802.11n WLAN Adapter
[15:29] <AlanBell> that is really slow
[15:29] <bigcalm> AlanBell: fluffy?
[15:30] <AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thats-Puppy-Usborne-Touchy-Feely/dp/0746037783
[15:30] <bigcalm> Ah
[15:31]  * penguin42 finds a load of computer catalogues from ~91
[15:36] <DJones> ok, for all the dog haters/cat lovers out there, this is a picture specially for you https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/q71/1470363_598597980225237_945445698_n.jpg
[15:36] <penguin42> Acorn R260 8MB for only #4913
[15:39] <DJones> penguin42: What are front covers advertising as the latest and greatest
[15:41] <mungbean> imagine if you invested that money into acorn shares instead
[15:41] <mungbean> in 91
[15:42] <mungbean> you could retire now
[15:44] <penguin42> DJones: Well, a catalogue with A Sparcstation 2 (#12400 !)
[15:45] <penguin42> or an HP Apollo 9000/425t
[15:45] <penguin42> FX-850 printer
[15:46] <SuperMatt> *grumble* I've just compiled nginx from source on two different machines, but with the packages, and one it working and the other isn't :(
[15:46] <DJones> I can remember the printer (or at least very similar), it was almost as good as a shredder
[15:47] <penguin42> SuperMatt: I think there is an nginx dev that hangs out in -bugs or +1
[15:47] <SuperMatt> I'm just having a bit of a moan
[15:47] <Laney> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer: saw this and thought of you http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/debian-uk/2013-November/000234.html
[15:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> Laney: Thanks but Lancashire! Ewww. That's 'tup North.
[15:49] <Laney> nice scenery, nice beer
[15:49] <Laney> it'd be rate grate
[15:49] <DJones> Home of the Black Pudding
[15:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm...
[15:50] <mgdm> Naaa. Stornoway is the home of the black pudding. ;-)
[15:50] <penguin42> Laney: Hmm they should try a ManLUG list
[15:50] <Laney> might have done too
[15:51] <DJones> mgdm: Didn't realise it was traditional there as well, just reading up, also says its traditional in the west midlands as well
[15:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> There are a couple of OpenERP partners up that way too.
[15:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> https://www.openerp.com/partners/directory/GB/United+Kingdom
[15:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thank "What Giants" are in Leeds
[15:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> Opus & Credativ are in the midlands.
[15:56] <BigRedS> SuperMatt: I thought I read this morning that you'd abandoned nginx? :)
[15:57] <SuperMatt> on my blog?
[15:57] <SuperMatt> that's just personal use stuff
[15:58] <SuperMatt> I still have a requirement for it as a reverse proxy on company web servers
[15:58] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Excuse me, Leeds is on the other side of the pennines!
[15:59] <BigRedS> SuperMatt: yeah
[15:59] <BigRedS> we used it briefly for reverse proxying before deciding it was an arse. we generally use varnish now
[16:00] <SuperMatt> I don't blame you
[16:00] <BigRedS> most of the time we want a reverse proxy we want an accelerator
[16:00] <SuperMatt> actually, it's mroe being used as a load balancer
[16:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Have mailed Sam. Thanks Laney
[16:00] <BigRedS> yeah; I'd decided it was an arse before we started using it :)
[16:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> penguin42: North is simply north to me.
[16:00] <Laney> cool, ta for following up
[16:00] <BigRedS> varnish can do that, too :)
[16:01] <SuperMatt> the one thing I want is for it to continue to use the same backend despite config reloads
[16:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> I did a "North-o-meter" test on Facebook the other day and was very proud to have scored 0% Northishness.
[16:01] <SuperMatt> so I can add extra backends and it continue using the same one
[16:01] <SuperMatt> for ws:// connections
[16:02] <mgdm> Hmm
[16:02] <mgdm> I doubt I'd run ws:// through Varnish
[16:02] <Laney> I got a few percent I think
[16:02] <Laney> was in Bournemouth
[16:02] <mungbean> i'm considering blocking anyone who does the northometer on my facebook
[16:02] <BigRedS> I got "20%; around London" which was exactly correct
[16:02] <SuperMatt> you're just jealous of my 0%
[16:02] <SuperMatt> mgdm: what would you use then?
[16:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Mine said 0% and somewhere near Jersey ;-)
[16:02] <arsen> 60% ftw.
[16:03] <BigRedS> SuperMatt: yeah, not sure if it can do that. I interact with it very little and keep getting mailservers to deal with instead :(
[16:03] <mgdm> SuperMatt: probably something lower-level. Running WS stuff through a pipe in Varnish ties up a connection
[16:03] <Laney> arsen: what is a barm cake?
[16:03] <SuperMatt> booo
[16:03] <SuperMatt> mailservers are the worst
[16:03] <SuperMatt> mgdm: fair enough
[16:03] <BigRedS> I like to think I'm on a journey towards a zen-like understanding of them
[16:03] <arsen> crappy bun iirc, Laney
[16:03] <ali1234> Laney: it's what is called a cob in nottingham
[16:03] <arsen> i live in SW London, i'd not say the north-o-meter is very accurate.
[16:03] <SuperMatt> I wonder if maybe I should just stick ha proxy at the front of my webserver and direct the traffic that way
[16:04] <SuperMatt> but I have no experience of haproxy
[16:04] <ali1234> londoners would probably call it a bread roll
[16:04] <SuperMatt> depends on the type of roll
[16:04] <SuperMatt> could be a baguette
[16:04] <arsen> anyone who knows what i mean when i say "stop being a mardy and eat a cob" is living on a higher plane of existence. welcome.
[16:04] <SuperMatt> bap
[16:04] <SuperMatt> I never hear anyone saying cob
[16:04] <arsen> then you are a lowbie.
[16:04] <SuperMatt> I am
[16:05] <SuperMatt> I very rarely spend time beyond zone 2 in north london
[16:05] <SuperMatt> sorry, make that zone 3
[16:05] <arsen> i try to avoid north london altogether.
[16:05] <SuperMatt> I love it
[16:06] <arsen> cob is a nottingham thing.
[16:06] <BigRedS> north london's the best bit of london
[16:06] <BigRedS> well, the southerly bit of north london
[16:06] <Laney> yeah I hear cob
[16:07] <Laney> there's a sandwich shop down the road called 'the cob stop'
[16:07] <arsen> where are you, Laney ?:)
[16:07] <Laney> NG
[16:08] <arsen> gotcha
[16:09] <Laney> the place to be
[16:12] <arsen> didn't know anyone in NG knew what Linux was :D
[16:12] <arsen> One day i'll consider moving back to notts, i miss chips n gravy.
[16:13] <SuperMatt> you know you can just add your own gravy, right?
[16:13] <SuperMatt> cheese and cheese is supposed to be the thing down here, but I'm finding fewer and fewer places doing it
[16:13] <BigRedS> cheese and cheese? Sounds ideal
[16:13] <SuperMatt> *chips
[16:14] <arsen> cheesey chips is a national thing
[16:14] <arsen> but down south they either never sell gravy, or offer some godawful "Curry" sauce.
[16:14] <BigRedS> yeah, I've seen that all over the place. Though I don't recall seeing it in London
[16:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> I though Chips and cheese was a welsh thing.
[16:15] <SuperMatt> put simply, I want chips and cheese!
[16:15] <SuperMatt> someone please give it to me
[16:15] <ali1234> move to canada
[16:15] <SuperMatt> NOW
[16:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> When we play golf in Swansea that's what they sell in the after drinking chip/kebab shops
[16:15] <Laney> there's NLUG but apparently they're quite 'boozy'
[16:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Never heard of it until going there.
[16:16] <Laney> if you like that kind of thing
[16:16] <davmor2> popey: bigcalm: VM have they changed their lease time my router is only staying on for an hour at a time before a release and renew happens
[16:16] <popey> which modem?
[16:16] <bigcalm> davmor2: I haven't been notified of such. And my IP address doesn't appear to have changed for a long time
[16:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: Remaining Lease Time
[16:17] <davmor2> 0 days 00:45:24
[16:17] <bigcalm> davmor2: I'd say there was a problem in your area
[16:17] <davmor2> popey: TP-link  plugged into the super hub
[16:18] <bigcalm> Expires: 1d 17h 37m 18s
[16:18] <bigcalm> Connected: 40d 6h 20m 36s
[16:18] <davmor2> popey: I noticed it since Monday evening every hour irc stopped and restarted
[16:18]  * bigcalm hugs his router
[16:18]  * penguin42 had seen a couple of odd drops in the alst few days
[16:19] <popey> not seen that here
[16:19] <popey> I have the same IP I have had for ages
[16:19] <bigcalm> Uptime of router itself: 126d 2h 42m 12s
[16:19] <bigcalm> Quite pleasing to have stable hardware for a change
[16:20] <davmor2> popey: my ip isn't changing that's the annoying thing
[16:20] <davmor2> I'll give VM a ring I think
[16:23] <bigcalm> Have fun with their menu system
[16:25] <penguin42> davmor2: You're going to try and phone VM about something that isn't actually completely dead?
[16:28] <shauno> is there anywhere else I should be looking for usb messages, other than kern.log ?
[16:29] <bigcalm> dmesg
[16:29] <penguin42> shauno: What USB issues do you have?
[16:30] <shauno> SD cards aren't showing up when I stick them in my cardreader
[16:31] <penguin42> shauno: Even after a cold boot?
[16:31] <penguin42> shauno: And is it an external reader or internal?
[16:31] <shauno> the reader is showing up itself as sdb through sde, but no sign of anything attached to them when I put a card in  (external)
[16:32] <penguin42> does /proc/partitions show anything on the sdb/sde sizes?
[16:33] <shauno> it doesn't mention them at all, just sda (the fixed disk)
[16:33] <penguin42> if it's external, what happens if you plug it in with the SD card already in?
[16:33] <shauno> exactly the same message as without
[16:34] <penguin42> how big an SD?
[16:35] <shauno> two cards, both 4gig, both sdhc
[16:35] <shauno> hm that's a point actually.  I wonder if this reader's too old for those
[16:39] <Myrtti> oh my gawd, there's a giant meerkat in my living room
[16:40] <AlanBell> do you have a normal sized one to compare it to?
[16:40] <Myrtti> AlanBell: do you mean that I should.... compare the meerkats?
[16:42] <davmor2> hahaha so they are sending out and engineer who won't be able to do anything I imagine as it is likely a issue on their end genius thank you india
[16:43] <davmor2> Myrtti: man you need to stop eating those mushrooms
[16:43] <penguin42> shauno: Yeh that's what I was thinking, I've got an external reader that won't manage more than 1
[16:44] <shauno> going nuts trying to dd an image to a card.  osx keeps giving up with a variety of errors, and I can't find anything else to test them on
[16:48] <Myrtti> AlanBell, davmor2: http://flickr.com/gp/myrtti/b0o5b1
[16:48] <SuperMatt> shauno: if dd is giving you errors, I would assume a disk somewhere is properly fubared
[16:48] <penguin42> shauno: You do realise SD cards are made of cheese?
[16:49] <davmor2> Myrtti: that's one big sergey :D
[16:50] <shauno> trying to rule out that osx is drunk first, because a) it usually is, and b) I'm too lazy to go find more 4GB cards
[16:53] <SuperMatt> maybe boot ubuntu from a memory stick
[16:54] <penguin42> shauno: Do you have something like a camera that exposes it's SD via usb?
[16:55] <shauno> nope, still compactflash
[16:56]  * penguin42 blinks
[16:56] <penguin42> shauno: Is that very old compactflash or very highend compact flash ?
[16:56] <shauno> it's 2005 I guess
[16:57] <shauno> I mean, it was an $800 camera.  but it's also quite old now.
[16:57] <penguin42> hmm, only his 1st cheap cam was CF - I think that was more 2000 ish
[16:57] <penguin42> ah ok, higher end
[16:57]  * penguin42 finds some code he wrote in 2002 to download from it :-)
[16:58] <penguin42> cheap early digi
[16:59] <penguin42> 2.3MPixel!
[17:09] <shauno> man, if amazon keep it up like this, it's going to be easier to go into town to shop
[17:09] <directhex> argh
[17:09] <directhex> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[17:09] <directhex>  linux-image-3.2.0-56-virtual : Conflicts: linux-image-3.2.0-56-virtual:i386 but 3.2.0-56.86 is to be installed.
[17:09] <directhex>  linux-image-3.2.0-56-virtual:i386 : Conflicts: linux-image-3.2.0-56-virtual but 3.2.0-56.86 is installed.
[17:11] <shauno> hah, okay. Amazon won't ship SD cards to Ireland.
[17:12] <SuperMatt> huh?
[17:12] <SuperMatt> bizarre
[17:12] <directhex> special anti-piracy tax?
[17:13] <SuperMatt> have you tried going to amazon.ie?
[17:14] <shauno> it just redirects you to .co.uk
[17:15] <shauno> ah, there we are .. right at the bottom of http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201337930  .. items that can be delivered to the UK only includes "Blank media items, such as blank CDs and DVDs ."
[17:15] <directhex> special anti-piracy tax.
[17:20] <SuperMatt> blank media tax, what a con. It's not like they can prove you're going to use the blank media for piracy
[17:21] <SuperMatt> actually, let me summarise that last sentence
[17:21] <SuperMatt> tax, what a con.
[17:24] <shauno> not sure why that's an issue, can't they just charge me it?
[17:25] <shauno> oh well.  got them from .de instead.  the shipping is still cheaper than a bus into town
[17:25] <SuperMatt> lols
[17:31] <shauno> really though, what a silly tax. especially on SD cards, whose primary use is probably cameras  (and smuggling movies into prisons)
[17:39] <shauno> unrelated topic, when did PCs start combining esata & usb2 into the same port?
[17:43] <penguin42> oh there's some pseudo standard for that
[17:44] <penguin42> I think it technically violates both standards but works well
[17:44] <shauno> I've got one on a hp probook here, took me a while to figure out what it is.  still haven't figured out what the port next to it is
[17:44] <penguin42> picture?
[17:46] <penguin42> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESATAp - huh hadn't realised there was a variation with 12v
[17:52] <shauno> http://cl.ly/image/2X2a3H0k382h   I see usb+esata, usb, and then ..
[17:52] <penguin42> display port?
[17:52] <penguin42> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort  yep
[17:52] <shauno> really?
[17:53] <mgdm> yep
[17:53] <mgdm> I have one on a ThinkPad
[17:53] <shauno> interesting.  I've only ever seen mini-dp in the wild
[17:54] <mgdm> it's electrically not unlike HDMI, but about one-eighth as useful, as you have to get an adapter to plug it into anything
[17:54] <penguin42> theoretically you can do funky things with them - like chain multiple DP monitors off them
[17:54] <mgdm> and unlike mini-DP adapters they'renot common
[17:54] <penguin42> some monitors do DP - bit rare though
[17:55] <shauno> yeah I'm used to that on mine.  I never actually use mini-dp.  I have mini-dp to dvi-d, mini-dp to hdmi, mini-dp to ethernet .. but nothing that uses mini-dp itself
[17:56] <penguin42> the multiple independent displays is the most interesting feature
[17:56] <shauno> odd to stick it with the usb connectors though, instead of with the vga on the back.  oh well.  maybe I'll find a use for it one day
[17:57] <penguin42> shauno: The VGA connector is probably where it is just because it's bigger
[17:57] <shauno> I think it makes some sense to have it on the back though.  same with the network connector.  things you don't reach for on a regular basis
[17:58] <penguin42> depends on your use, if you pick it up every day or a few times a day to go to meeting rooms it's a pain
[17:58] <popey> golly http://blog.xamarin.com/microsoft-and-xamarin-partner-globally/
[17:58] <shauno> but meeting rooms all use vga :)
[17:59] <shauno> vga's already on the back with phone & network.  I plug two of the three in pretty much everywhere I go
[18:00] <penguin42> popey: Oh interesting, they were the guys who got the SuSE/MS partnership weren't they?
[18:00] <popey> yeah
[18:00] <penguin42> popey: Thing is a lot of people like C#
[18:00] <popey> not surprising really
[18:00] <popey> yeah, and it's cross platform
[18:01] <penguin42> there's perhaps nothing else as cross platform and that's not Java
[18:37] <penguin42> popey: Hmm interesting timing: http://ceylon-lang.org/blog/2013/11/12/ceylon-1/
[18:48] <popey> so many new things
[18:49] <penguin42> nod
[19:02] <bigcalm> Oops, gonna be late for the LUG
[19:02]  * bigcalm slithers away
[19:16] <popey> ooh http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03hybnv
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> popey: tomorrow! :)
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: did you see http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01lg91q as well?
[19:48] <popey> ooh
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> screenshotting while youtubing = fun
[20:01] <shauno> ah.  sigsur1 doesn't get bsd's dd to print stats.  it just exits.  awkward.
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> yay GNU extensions
[20:02] <shauno> apparently it's siginfo on bsd
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> sure, invent a new signal
[20:02] <shauno> I'm used to them being a bit weird at times, but why die on usr1?  argh
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> because that's the default action
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Other things I dislike about BSD: ls -ls foo* vs ls foo* -la
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> shauno: and "find -name foo" vs "find . -name foo"
[20:04] <shauno> oh my favourite gripe is that gnu's dd takes bs=1M, bsd's takes bs=1m.  neither will accept the 'wrong' case
[20:05] <MartijnVdS> argh!
[20:05] <shauno> it's just so petty, yet I still get it wrong most the time
[20:06] <MartijnVdS> My old old job used to be a BSD shop, but every sysadmin now prefers Debian (so they're almost done converting)
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> My old job was a FreeBSD shop
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> My current job is an Ubuntu shop \o/
[20:08] <penguin42> It's like ssh and scp - wth does one take -p and the other -P
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> isn't that another BSD project?
[20:09] <shauno> so this seems to be where I'm going wrong .. 135004160 bytes transferred in 189.261896 secs (713319 bytes/sec)
[20:10] <shauno> that's terribly, terribly slow.  makes my transfer 5558 seconds (for 4gig)
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> what kind of underlying device/fs/etc?
[20:10] <shauno> sd card from my ssd
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> SD cards *are* slow
[20:12] <penguin42> and made from cheese
[20:12] <penguin42> shauno: What block size, what vendors SD card ?
[20:14] <shauno> transcend card, sdhc class 6 (so should be 6MB/s)
[20:15] <penguin42> and how are you writing?
[20:15] <shauno> default blocksize, so 512
[20:15] <penguin42> oh god right
[20:16] <shauno> not sure if it's wise to change it, since the image was pulled at the same?
[20:16] <penguin42> shauno: Yeh, bad idea - the SD cards tend to have BIG blocks, so writing small things mean reading the big block, making a change, and then writing again and then doing the next bit
[20:16] <AlanBell> you can change it, that is fine
[20:16] <penguin42> shauno: You just dd ing onto it? just use bs=1M
[20:18] <ali1234> make sure you're not running it on USB1 as well
[20:19] <shauno> it's not on usb.  tis a weird one
[20:19] <ali1234> some laptops have pci attached readers
[20:19] <ali1234> they are pretty rare though
[20:19] <ali1234> and really buggy on linux :/
[20:20] <shauno> yeah, mac has it pcie-attached.  which is annoying, because it means vmware can't find it
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> can't vmware forward pci(e) devices as well as usb?
[20:29] <shauno> fusion doesn't.  they've simplified a whole lot on the mac one.  we don't get the regular Workstation
[20:29] <shauno> they give me a key for WS, just not an osx build of it :(
[20:31] <shauno> it's a shame it's the OS that I'm trying to write to this, else it'd be faster to push it across the network
[20:38] <shauno> (yes that sounds obvious, but the machine only has 128k serial)
[21:16] <Azelphur> http://bitcoinity.org/markets bitcoin looks set to hit $400 sometime nowish :)
[22:28] <diddledan> Azelphur: it's now 440?!
[22:28] <diddledan> wowz
[22:28] <Azelphur> diddledan: mtgox is artificially inflated, use the bitstamp rate.
[22:29] <Azelphur> its hovering around $399 to wind me up :P
[22:29] <Azelphur> big wall at 400 \o/
[22:30] <diddledan> how's it got so expensive?
[22:30] <diddledan> expensive - worth so much
[22:30] <Azelphur> do you mean how is bitcoin so expensive in general, or how mtgox is artificially inflated?
[22:30] <diddledan> bitcoin in general
[22:30] <Azelphur> demand.
[22:31] <Azelphur> simple answer :)
[22:32] <diddledan> I know it is based on exactly the same principles as standard currency but I just can't seem to wrap my head around it
[22:32] <Azelphur> diddledan: I think a lot of people seem to be confused by it
[22:32] <diddledan> I guess I'm turning into a fuddy duddy :-p
[22:32] <Azelphur> I guess the reason I understand it is because from a very young age I learned that virtual currency was valuable
[22:32] <Azelphur> even game money
[22:33] <diddledan> Azelphur: the point that the british banks refuse to have anything to do with anyone who mentions they're backed by bitcoins proves that
[22:33] <Azelphur> indeed
[22:33] <mgdm> I remember stories about WoW gold having a comparable exchange rate to some small countries
[22:33] <diddledan> I think the banking issue is partly because they have no control over it
[22:34] <mgdm> diddledan: that's absolutely it. they can't tax it
[22:34] <mgdm> or trace it
[22:34] <Azelphur> it's a money laundering nightmare
[22:34] <Azelphur> but then, the entire concept of money laundering is fairly ludicrous anyway.
[22:35] <Azelphur> "Oh someone robbed someone else and then spent the money at your shop? That's your fault!"
[23:21] <Myrtti> dwatkins: https://github.com/thiderman/doge/
[23:30] <dwatkins> Myrtti: oh my
[23:31] <dwatkins> did you see the MLP terminal application?
[23:31] <Myrtti> pft mlp
[23:31] <dwatkins> https://github.com/erkin/ponysay
[23:33] <shauno> I wonder if you can include that crazy ansi stuff in .cow files
[23:38] <shauno> seems not; cowsay: Unrecognized character \x1B in column 98 at /usr/share/cowsay/cows/test.cow line 2.
[23:38] <dwatkins> bah
[23:38] <penguin42> an escaped escape
[23:39] <dubaco_> hi
[23:41] <dubaco_> !help