[04:43] <Mirv> t1mp: zoltan knows better about such plans, but yes we have a branch for it (https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/saucy) if we want to do SRUs
[04:44] <Mirv> and of course the PPA is updating all the time
[09:42] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Loosen Up, Lighten Up Day! :-D
[10:24] <kalikiana> JamesTait: what kind of day is that? sounds like anti-depression day
[10:24] <JamesTait> kalikiana, sounds like the kind of day I could do with more often. :-P
[10:26] <kalikiana> I kinda prefer genuinely positive days… it doesn't help me to be told "stop being depressed" and that's it
[10:27] <kalikiana> you could also tell me "stop eating too much ice cream" that won't stop me either :-D
[10:27] <JamesTait> kalikiana, it sounds like you've got the spirit of this particular day exactly right! :-D
[10:41] <popey> haha
[10:45] <t1mp> popey: ping
[10:45] <popey> t1mp: pong
[10:45] <t1mp> popey: hi! I saw you answered this question - http://askubuntu.com/questions/375839/unity3d-game-packaging-service
[10:46] <popey> so i did
[10:46] <t1mp> popey: I'm trying to figure out what we can do to help developers create/publish games for ubuntu touch
[10:46] <t1mp> popey: do you have more information about that? with Unity3D so far I found that the development tools only work for windows/macosx
[10:46] <popey> well step 1 is going to be "get libraries/toolkits ported"
[10:46] <t1mp> popey: but you can export for linux desktop, which gives you a (mono) executable and libs
[10:46] <popey> yes
[10:46] <popey> correct
[10:47] <popey> but you can't export for Ubuntu Touch (yet)
[10:47] <t1mp> popey: that would require modifications to unity3d, right?
[10:47] <popey> Correct.
[10:48] <popey> I believe we have spoken to them about this at some point in the past.
[10:48] <t1mp> popey: ah, cool. I don't know about that, I'm just collecting information that I can find online
[10:48] <popey> Quite a significant bit of work for them.
[10:48] <popey> Another interesting framework is Kivy, which is open source ☻
[10:48] <popey> They even have an EGL renderer so you can bypass X
[10:49] <t1mp> popey: ah, let me check that out. I don't know it.
[10:49] <t1mp> popey: this one? http://kivy.org/
[10:49] <popey> yup
[10:50] <popey> they have an arm build which works on the Pi, I tried it on my phone (with help in #kivy) and it doesn't work
[10:52] <t1mp> popey: did you try to run a unity3d-exported project on ubuntu touch?
[10:52] <t1mp> I don't have windows or osx now to play with unity3d
[10:53] <t1mp> but we'd need at least mono on the device
[10:53] <t1mp> ..or they need to add a native export which is not mono
[11:02] <popey> t1mp: that won't work, it's an x86 binary
[11:02] <t1mp> oh :(
[11:02] <popey> you don't need mono on the device
[11:03] <t1mp> I thought all mono binaries run in a virtual machine
[11:03] <popey> they build a static binary
[11:03] <t1mp> someone showed briefly what a unity export creates, and it had a bunch of dll files also. How are they used?
[11:03] <t1mp> ok so my assumptions about mono in the export are completely wrong
[11:03]  * ogra_ guesses they are only used under windows
[11:04] <t1mp> then they don't need to write them when you publish to linux desktop
[11:04] <popey> no, they bundle everything they need in
[11:05] <ogra_> or they might be ELF libs and just be named like that ...
[11:05] <popey> that way it works on many distros, they don't use any packages on the machine for that
[11:05] <popey> alan@deep-thought:~/Dropbox/Unity/builds/2dgame_Data/Mono$ file mono.dll
[11:05] <popey> mono.dll: PE32 executable (DLL) (GUI) Intel 80386, for MS Windows
[11:05] <ogra_> (for easier portability)
[11:05] <popey> ^^ see
[11:05] <ogra_> ah
[11:05] <ogra_> yeah
[11:05] <ogra_> so its just for win execution
[11:05] <popey> I play with Unity3D a bit at home
[11:06] <t1mp> popey: those dll's are exported when you create a version for linux desktop?
[11:06] <t1mp> popey: but the dll's are for windows? so useless?
[11:06] <popey> one mo, let me export one for you
[11:07] <t1mp> ok
[11:07] <popey> the long and short is there is nothing we can do
[11:07] <popey> they need to modify their development tools to make it export arm ubuntu versions
[11:09] <t1mp> popey: ok. thanks. I'll add that to my doc
[11:15] <popey> t1mp: http://popey.com/~alan/unity2dtest.zip contains a readme and a Linux build of their sample game.
[11:15] <t1mp> popey: thanks, I'll check it out.
[11:16] <popey> When you start the game, it will ask you for a screen resolution, choose something low, and windowed. I dont know how to exit the game, so doing that allows you to close the windows
[11:17] <popey> I'd love to have Unity 3D the editor working on my Ubuntu machine, but they haven't ported it yet.
[11:17] <popey> Amusingly the editor is MonoDevelop, which we already have ported!
[11:17] <popey> it's the rest of the editor that isn't. It *almost* works in WINE, but that's not ideal of course.
[11:19] <t1mp> popey: you created that game?
[11:19] <t1mp> popey: supercool :) we need that on touch! ;)
[11:19] <popey> no, i loaded it into Unity3D on my Windows box and spat out a build
[11:19] <t1mp> popey: ah I didn't read what you said here. I started fullscreen and it worked
[11:19] <t1mp> popey: alt+f4 quits the game for me
[11:19] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qE8cuHI93c
[11:19] <popey> its their sample game
[11:19] <popey> ah okay
[11:20] <popey> but yes, I agree. It would be *great* to have Unity3D have an "Export to Ubuntu Touch" option. Make it so ☻
[11:22] <t1mp> popey: apparently if you want to create an ios (or osx?) version, it generates a project for xcode, and then you compile in xcode
[11:25] <popey> yes
[11:25] <popey> so you have to build for iOS on a Mac
[11:26] <t1mp> popey: that 2D game can be done with box2d I think, for which there is a qml binding :)
[11:31] <t1mp> but from my quick look, Unity seems to have a cool editor
[11:35] <popey> yeah, and very extensible
[12:06] <daker> in less than 12hours the battery is at 30% :(
[12:07] <popey> daker: adb shell in, run top, see what's running?
[12:08] <daker> popey: running 12.04, is adb available ?
[12:09] <daker> switching the screen off/on switchs "on" the bluetooth
[12:10] <popey> daker: are we talking about the phone battery?
[12:10] <daker> popey: yes
[12:10] <popey> ok, yes, you can get adb for 12.04
[12:10] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~phablet-team/+archive/tools
[12:16] <daker> popey: adb shell brings the root session ?
[12:16] <daker> not the phablet user
[12:21] <popey> yes, correct
[12:21] <popey> if you want to switch to the phablet user, "sudo -u phablet -i"
[12:21] <daker> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6415564/
[12:22] <popey> interesting load avg of 3 over the last 15 mins
[12:22] <popey> ps aux | grep qmlscene
[12:22] <popey> which app is that?
[12:23] <ogra_> is that a mako ?
[12:23] <daker> ogra_: yep
[12:23] <seb128> unity8 has 18min of CPU in that top list, that's qui a lot
[12:23] <ogra_> echo "interactive" >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
[12:24] <ogra_> daker, try that
[12:24] <daker> popey: yep that's terminal
[12:24] <daker> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6415573/
[12:24] <ogra_> it shoudl get the load down quite a bit
[12:26] <daker> ogra_: done
[12:26] <daker> ogra_: what i should expect ?
[12:26] <ogra_> (we'll do some research about whats the best governor for which device this cycle)
[12:26] <ogra_> that the load on idle goes down to something like 0.2 or 0.3 ... instead of 1.x
[12:27] <ogra_> (and the rest of the average load should also stay lower by default)
[12:28] <daker> ogra_: load average: 1.46, 1.56, 2.08
[12:28] <ogra_> on idle ?
[12:28] <ogra_> it should drop over time
[12:29] <ogra_> are you sure it took the setting ? (cat the file again)
[12:31] <ogra_> for me it is at about 1.20 with ondemand ... setting interactive it then drops 0.01 per second until it reaches something like 0.3
[12:31]  * ogra_ just did it again after a fresh boot and it is at .52 after about 30sec
[12:32] <ogra_> load average: 0.15, 0.77, 1.06
[12:33] <ogra_> thats after about a minute
[12:33] <popey> beuno: what does this actually mean? ""lint_md5sums": "found bad checksums: java-7-openjdk-armhf/jre/lib/security/cacerts""
[12:33] <ogra_> tat the files dont match the expected sum ?
[12:34]  * ogra_ bets they are generated by a portinst or so ... so their sums are individual on each install
[12:34] <ogra_> *postinst
[12:34] <popey> i see no md5sum in the list that gets printed
[12:34] <daker> ogra_: load average: 0.16, 0.59, 1.45
[12:35] <ogra_> yeah
[12:35] <ogra_> great
[12:35] <ogra_> that should help responsiveness a little
[12:35] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6415631/
[12:36] <popey> lrwxrwxrwx 1 alan alan 27 Nov 11 16:36 cacerts -> /etc/ssl/certs/java/cacerts
[12:36] <popey> thats why
[12:37] <beuno> popey, right  :)
[12:37] <beuno> popey, so we should add symlink detection
[12:37] <popey> yeah
[12:38] <popey> want me to file a bug?
[12:40] <popey> done
[12:40] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/click-reviewers-tools/+bug/1251223
[12:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1251223 in Canonical Click Reviewers tools "Should look for symlinks in the click package" [Undecided,New]
[12:53] <daker> ogra_: what's about switching the screen off/on switchs "on" the bluetooth
[12:54] <ogra_> not my area ... but definitely a bug (and known i think)
[12:54] <daker> ok
[12:54] <ogra_> cyphermox and charles need to work together onn this
[13:06] <daker> interesting ifconfig works on the phonew with the ubuntu terminal but not with adb shell
[13:06] <daker> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ ifconfig
[13:06] <daker> -su: ifconfig: command not found
[13:07] <ogra_> that means your env is messed up ...
[13:07] <ogra_> most likely because you used the wrong way to become pahblet
[13:07] <ogra_> sudo -u phablet -i
[13:07] <ogra_> thats the only way you shoudl use
[13:07] <daker> ogra_: right
[13:08] <ogra_> did you ?
[13:08] <daker> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes
[13:08] <daker> Execute the following command to run as user phablet (required to run apps in an initialized session): su - phablet
[13:09] <ogra_> bah
[13:10] <popey> 12:21:20 < popey> if you want to switch to the phablet user, "sudo -u phablet -i"
[13:10] <popey> ☻
[13:10] <ogra_> popey, well, but the doc recommends su :)
[13:10]  * popey also edits the wiki
[13:10] <popey> well I did say how to over an hour ago when daker asked ☻
[13:10] <daker> popey: ya i was already in :)
[13:11] <daker> so i didn't think they were differentes
[13:11] <popey> everyone has been bitten by that one
[13:19] <dpm_> so, I'm trying to bootstrap the Evernote QML app, using the Evernote JavaScript API, here's a first cut -> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dpm/+junk/authen/files
[13:20] <dpm_> However, the Javascript file gives me an error when I try to load it from QML
[13:20] <dpm_> file:///home/dpm/dev/authen/lib/evernote-sdk.js:833: Error: Invalid write to global property "EDAMErrorCode"
[13:21] <dpm_> I think that's because there is no "var" in front of that variable
[13:21] <dpm_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dpm/+junk/authen/view/head:/lib/evernote-sdk.js#L833
[13:22] <dpm_> but looking at the rest of the file, there are quite a lot of variables not declared with "var", and QML does not seem to like that
[13:23] <dpm_> aquarius, daker, you're experts in JavaScript (and I believe in QML as well ;) - do you have any ideas? Do I need to prepend all variables with "var" to be able to use that file from QML?
[13:23] <dpm_> ^^
[13:23] <aquarius> you need to declare your variables, indeed
[13:23]  * aquarius rtfs
[13:24] <aquarius> yes. Stick var in front of it.
[13:24] <aquarius> That will declare it in the scope of the JS file
[13:25] <dpm_> oh, man, I wonder why the guys upstream didn't do it, there are *a lot* of variables in that file...
[13:25] <aquarius> beware: when you import the JS into QML, you'll do: import "evernote-sdk.js" as SOMETHING, and then to reference JS vars *from* QML you'll need to call them SOMETHING.EDAMErrorCode
[13:25] <aquarius> it's less important in a browser, because you're likely loading that module into the global namespace *anyway*
[13:25] <aquarius> so there's no difference.
[13:26] <aquarius> QML is a lot more picky; it does not allow you to write to the global namespace. Each JS file gets its own namespace.
[13:27]  * aquarius runs the file through jshint
[13:28]  * dpm_ didn't know about jshint, nice!
[13:28] <aquarius> woah. jshint dislikes this code :)
[13:28] <aquarius> Missing semicolons, mainly...
[13:30] <dpm_> aquarius, they only release minified code,  so I unminified it, but I doubt that modified the semicolons. https://github.com/evernote/evernote-sdk-js
[13:31] <aquarius> right. Minified code leaves out semicolons where they'd be clearer but aren't strictly necessary, because that's what minification *is* ;)
[13:31] <aquarius> might be worth asking them for the unminified version.
[13:31] <daker> https://github.com/evernote/evernote-sdk-js/blob/master/evernote-sdk-js/thrift/lib/thrift.js
[13:32] <dpm_> Yeah, there might be a way of building the .js file, but I didn't see anything obvious and there's no documentation on how to build it
[13:32] <dpm_> at least I could not find it
[13:32] <dpm_> sorry, I meant building the _unminified_ file
[13:32] <daker> unminifed js https://github.com/evernote/evernote-sdk-js/blob/master/evernote-sdk-js/thrift/lib/thrift.js
[13:33] <daker> only the first part
[13:35] <dpm_> yeah, other bits seem to be in https://github.com/evernote/evernote-sdk-js/tree/master/evernote-sdk-js/generated - but it seems these are generated by something else
[13:35] <dpm_> and I don't know how they put everything together
[14:16] <dpm_> daker, aquarius, ok, a new JS question if you guys have got a minute: after having prepended all variables with "var", I'm now getting "ReferenceError: ArrayBuffer is not defined" on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dpm/+junk/authen/view/head:/lib/evernote-sdk.js#L458 - is this ArrayBuffer supposed to be a built-in object that the QML implementation of JS does not support?
[14:16] <aquarius> oooh
[14:16] <aquarius> yes, it is
[14:17] <dpm_> shit
[14:17] <aquarius> an ArrayBuffer is a block of memory used to store binary data
[14:17] <dpm_> that rules out using the Evernote JS API, then :(
[14:17] <aquarius> that sucks :(
[14:17] <daker> :(
[14:17] <aquarius> you may be able to work around it, or may not.
[14:17] <aquarius> if I were to guess, I'd say that they're using it to XHR binary data (images, for example) off the server
[14:18] <aquarius> QML's JS engine doesn't support binary XHRs, which sucks.
[14:18]  * aquarius rtfs
[14:18] <aquarius> right; it's in a thing called BinaryParser.
[14:19] <aquarius> maybe just stub that out and see what happens...? That is: make it so calling BinaryParser works but doesn't return anything, and so you don't support binary data
[14:19] <aquarius> *hopefully* that'll mean that you just don't display binary data in notes
[14:19] <aquarius> if the whole API depends on it, though, then you have a problem :(
[14:25] <dpm_> I'll give it a go, thanks a lot aquarius
[14:30] <dpm_> ah bummer, I guess DataView is not supported, either...
[14:44] <dpm_> hi mzanetti, we're looking at ways to access the Evernote API for the Evernote app. It seems the JS library they provide won't work, and the next one to try is their C++ library. Looking at it here https://github.com/evernote/evernote-sdk-cpp, do you think it might make sense to wrap it as a C++ QML extension?
[14:45] <dpm_> or perhaps t1mp or kalikiana, what do you think? ^^
[14:46]  * mzanetti is looking
[14:46] <dpm_> thanks :)
[14:47] <mzanetti> dpm_: yeah. I'd say that's way to go
[14:47] <mzanetti> dpm_: who is "we"?
[14:47] <mzanetti> ah ok. I see
[14:48] <mzanetti> let me know if you need help
[14:48] <dpm_> mzanetti, "we" is myself, popey and the Evernote community developers :)
[14:48] <dpm_> thanks :)
[14:49] <mzanetti> ok. yeah, I can help you getting started if you're all new to Qt plugins
[14:49]  * popey hugs mzanetti 
[14:49]  * dpm_ flash hugs too
[14:50]  * mzanetti -> food. I'll have a look later
[14:50] <dpm_> mzanetti, it'd be awesome if you could bootstrap us on wrapping that library as a QML plugin, thanks!
[15:20] <mzanetti> dpm_: is there already some code or should I start from scratch?
[15:23] <dpm_> mzanetti, there is no code for it. We were intending to use the JavaScript library Evernote provides, but that has proved to not be feasible, as Qt's implementation of JS does not support things such as ArrayBuffer, which the Evernote JS library uses. So I've started looking at the C++ library and how to wrap it as a QML plugin just when I asked you earlier on. For the app itself, we do have some code for the app's UI in QML, but that's pretty much
[15:23] <dpm_>  pre-alpha. For the Evernote API backend, as I say, the intention was just to use their JS code
[15:24] <mzanetti> dpm_: ok. So I start a new project with a dummy main.qml
[15:25] <dpm_> mzanetti, if you are going to modify the UI as well, then I'd suggest using the code from the existing project, give me a sec and I can give you the link
[15:26] <dpm_> mzanetti, https://launchpad.net/reminders-app
[15:27] <dpm_> it's pretty much a dummy  reminders-app.qml file right now
[16:28] <daker> oSoMoN: and we need to make start.ubuntu.com mobile friendly
[16:30] <oSoMoN> daker, agreed
[16:37] <mhall119> kenvandine: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/Ubuntu.Content/ look better now with the page on top?
[16:42] <kenvandine> mhall119, yes.. that makes more sense imo
[16:52] <mzanetti> dpm: I never used Evernote so far
[16:52] <mzanetti> dpm_: what's the most basic thing such an app would do?
[16:53] <dpm> mzanetti, fetch a list of notes
[16:53] <mzanetti> dpm: is this only public stuff? or how does authentication happen?
[16:54] <dpm> mzanetti, so we've got an Online Accounts plugin in the works that takes care of all the authentication
[16:56] <dpm> with OA doing the authentication, you get the token you can pass to the API to do any operation with the notes
[16:56] <mzanetti> mhm. I see
[16:58] <dpm> "in the works" means that we've got a package with the Evernote OA provider building in a PPA, and an updated version of signond pending Jenkins review and landing
[16:59] <dpm> but I've got local packages to test that I can send (or you can build the packages directly from LP's code)
[17:20] <daker> popey: the wikipedia app doesn't work
[18:01] <popey> daker: if you look in /home/phablet/.cache/ there may be a recently written log file, maybe under ./upstart ?
[18:02] <daker> popey: i mean it start but nothing in it
[18:02] <daker> just a tab with empty content
[18:06] <popey> yes, so check the logs
[18:10] <daker> popey: where apps are installed ?
[19:16] <popey> daker: /opt
[20:14] <daker> popey: ouch! the developer is trying to embed http://m.wikipedia.org inside an iframe using the HTML5 SDK
[20:24] <kenvandine> aquarius, i hate you again... i have a working phone again, so now I have to start thinking about "El Paso" again
[20:25] <kenvandine> popey, how far are you in riddling now?
[20:26] <kenvandine> seb128, have you come up with any guesses for #24?
[20:26] <seb128> kenvandine, no, I googled a bit for it but didn't find anything useful
[20:27] <seb128> you should ask David ;-)
[20:27] <kenvandine> i think tonight might be a long night again :)
[20:27] <seb128> hehe
[20:27] <kenvandine> having a busted phone helped me get some sleep
[20:32] <popey> er, kenvandine 16 ☻
[20:41] <AskUbuntu> gsettings-qt bug? | http://askubuntu.com/q/377114
[21:34] <mhall119> kenvandine: got any hints for #16?
[21:35] <kenvandine> mhall119, in PM to not spoil it for others
[21:36] <popey> pm me too ☻
[21:36] <kenvandine> mhall119, oh... and anther hint
[21:36] <kenvandine> if you have any of the non-default features enabled on the OSK, it won't take your answer
[21:36] <kenvandine> that annoyed the hell out of me...
[21:37] <popey> it will if you press enter
[21:37] <popey> instead of "Next" button
[21:37] <kenvandine> ah!
[21:37] <kenvandine> that was annoying
[21:37] <kenvandine> i was typing the answer right... and it wouldn't take it
[21:37] <kenvandine> i was confident i had it right...
[21:41] <mhall119> say what? what non-default features?
[21:42] <kenvandine> predictive text and auto capitalization?
[21:42] <kenvandine> i think
[21:42] <kenvandine> they aren't exposed in system settings yet
[21:42] <kenvandine> because they are buggy
[21:42] <kenvandine> i had enabled them during the sprint
[21:42] <kenvandine> which made riddling just that much more frustrating
[21:43] <mhall119> auto-cap is on by default now, no?
[21:44] <kenvandine> maybe
[21:46] <kenvandine> Auto completion and Word suggestions
[21:46] <kenvandine> those are the ones i had
[21:46] <kenvandine> i assume auto completion is what was shooting me in the foot
[22:29] <mhall119> I just got the same SMS from my brother like 4 times, and he swears he only sent it once, has anybody else experienced this?
[22:54] <popey> mhall119: not recently
[22:55] <mhall119> well he just got 4 repeat replies from me on his Android phone, so maybe it was the network's fault