[07:23] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:01] <popey> Pip pip
[08:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning.
[08:03] <diplo> Morning all
[08:27] <Myrtti> möh
[08:28] <MooDoo> Myrtti: was that supposed to be meh! ;)
[08:28] <Myrtti> I've regressed
[08:29] <dvrr> hiii  good morning  all
[08:29] <MooDoo> Myrtti: in that case you should understand this ... iwc hfdhdsf ;)
[08:29] <MooDoo> morning dvrr
[08:53] <dvrr> vnc server too many security failures  i facesd this problam fast 2 hours how to resolve  please help me
[08:59]  * dwatkins ponders how to send ctrl+alt+delete to an rdesktop session inside an open NX session on his Mac
[08:59] <mgdm> taxi?
[08:59] <dwatkins> is there an on-screen keyboard installed by default in Ubuntu?
[09:00] <SuperMatt> if amazon is starting to offer windows desktops, how long before they offer linux desktops?
[09:01] <tripleclones> dwatkins Start | Windows Security if it's a newer version of windows
[09:02] <dwatkins> tripleclones: urrm, I'm not sure where I'd do that, I can't log in to the virtual machine that's 4.5 miles away ;)
[09:02] <dwatkins> and I'm controlling it via an Ubuntu server with fluxbox as the window manager
[09:03] <tripleclones> using rdesktop?
[09:03] <dwatkins> tripleclones: yeah
[09:03] <tripleclones> dwatkins - what version of windows
[09:03] <dwatkins> Server 2k3 R2
[09:03] <dwatkins> it's at the "press ctrl+alt+del to login" login screen
[09:03] <tripleclones> dwatkins - ah
[09:04] <dwatkins> yeah ;)
[09:04] <tripleclones> I think Ctrl Alt End does it
[09:04] <dwatkins> after logging in, I have the problem that its updates fail to actually update, but that's a separate issue, and nothing whatsoever to do with Ubuntu (unless it's because I'm running it as a virtual machine on Ubuntu x64 or something)
[09:05] <dwatkins> hmm, not sure I have a real "end" key hahaha
[09:05] <tripleclones> dwatkins - ah ;)
[09:06] <dwatkins> no worries, I'll find a way or wait until I get home
[09:07] <diddledan> dwatkins: rdesktop on ubuntu uses ctrl+alt+del as the default ctrl+alt+del key sequence I thought?
[09:07] <diddledan> dwatkins: and on mac the same applies
[09:07] <dwatkins> hmm, interesting
[09:07] <dwatkins> perhaps open NX is stopping it from being passed, I'll try sshing directly to the server to run rdesktop
[09:07] <dwatkins> well, via the machine which I can access...
[09:07] <dwatkins> tunnelling fun!
[09:08] <diddledan> if you're on a mac without a delete key tho I'm not sure what the fn+smth key is to get the same functionality
[09:09] <mgdm> fn+backspace
[09:09] <diddledan> there ya go
[09:09] <diddledan> so ctrl+alt+fn+backspace
[09:13] <dwatkins> bingo, ssh port redirection saves the day :D
[09:14] <dwatkins> haha, it tries to upgrade the browser, downloads IE8, then tells me it's not supported on this OS *facepalm*
[09:14] <dwatkins> I'm really glad I don't rely on this OS (although in fairness, I'm using an old version)
[09:15] <diddledan> wait, ie8 isn't supported on 2k3?
[09:15] <diddledan> wow
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> 2k3 is like XP right
[09:19] <dvrr> popey:
[09:21] <diddledan> it was a superset of xp with servery stuffs
[09:21] <diddledan> I think R2 was even vista under the hood
[09:22] <MartijnVdS> 2008 was vista
[09:22] <MartijnVdS> I think
[09:22] <popey> dvrr:
[09:22] <diddledan> aah yeah, I think you're right - vista came out in 2k7
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: and 2k8r2 was Win7-based
[09:23] <dvrr> vnc server problem ubuntu12.10
[09:24] <dvrr> popery: vnc server too many security failures
[09:24] <diddledan> I think vnc servers have been broken in ubuntu for ages
[09:24] <dwatkins> Well, it's sitting there using 25% of the CPU to do nothing, so thus far, Windows Server 2003 is pretty useless to me, as it won't even install the security updates.
[09:24] <diddledan> due to compositing
[09:24] <AlanBell> why does this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/pics/toolbar-bg.png render differently in firefox to chromium?
[09:25] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: maybe it has a color profile attached/included in the file
[09:25] <diddledan> looks green in chrome and safari here
[09:26] <dvrr> how  to fix  this problem
[09:26] <diddledan> and it looks similar in firefox on osx
[09:26] <diddledan> so chrome safari and firefox all seem the same on osx
[09:27] <popey> AlanBell: blamefirefox
[09:27] <AlanBell> diddledan: it is green, but firefox is rather brighter
[09:28] <popey> i think its an optical illusion
[09:28] <AlanBell> it probably is the colour profile in the file, not sure why one of them isn't applying it
[09:28] <popey> due to the dark background in ff
[09:28] <AlanBell> nope, however on TheOpenSourcerer's machine I think they are the same
[09:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> On mine it looks the same in G & FF
[09:28] <dwatkins> it shows the image in the centre on Firefox on my Mac, whereas Chrome shows it at the top left corner, but the images look the same.
[09:29] <popey> same here
[09:29] <popey> but I guess AlanBell is using it on a site, not just on its own
[09:31] <AlanBell> yeah, it is on a white background in the site
[09:31] <mungbean> i wonder if school caretakers actually have interviews where they talk, or its just an audition where they walk through carry a bunch of keys and a table. oh, there's a large bulky man with a mullet, he's perfect for the job
[09:32] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/pics/firefoxchromium.png
[09:32] <AlanBell> that is a screenshot of the two browsers next to each other, and the difference I see
[09:33] <AlanBell> firefox is brighter
[09:33] <MooDoo> mungbean: to be honest, it's pretty impressive what school caretakers have to go through although it's now known as facilities management.
[09:33] <mungbean> they get a house though
[09:34] <MooDoo> depends if they outsource it out....my sister and brother in law do it all
[09:34] <mungbean> our local one looks like he could wrestle a bear and win
[09:35] <popey> our school caretaker does loads and doesn't get a house
[09:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> My youngest son's school just "had to let go" its caretaker... He clipped a kid round the ear for being lippy. he was a lovely bloke and had been there for years. All the kids really liked him. One mistake, a bloody stroppy parent and a weak head meant he lost his job.
[09:35] <MooDoo> no offence TheOpenSourcerer no sympathy, you don't hit kids
[09:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bollocks
[09:36] <mungbean> on or off duty?
[09:36] <MooDoo> if someone hit my kids i'd go mental
[09:36] <popey> moment of weakness no doubt
[09:36] <mungbean> MooDoo: even if he was giving the guy lip?
[09:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> "hit" and a clip round the ear are not the same thing.
[09:37] <mungbean> lots of kids don't have fathers in their lives at all and need a bit of male correction
[09:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> lots of kids I know need a good kicking if you ask me. Might teach them some manners and respect
[09:37] <diplo> MooDoo: I'm with TheOpenSourcerer, if he punched him I understood.. if he was putting him in line for being lippy i'd be fine
[09:37] <MooDoo> well we can't all agree all the time :)
[09:38] <diplo> It used to happen at school all the time, kids were much better then as they knew they'd get a clip around the ear for being cheeky
[09:38] <MooDoo> nowadays it's classed as assult.
[09:38] <diplo> Yeah and it's stupid
[09:39] <mungbean> then they wonder why 15yr olds are getting stabbed l/r/centre
[09:39] <popey> they are?
[09:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> not in Farnham I think.
[09:40] <dwatkins> this is my favourite video of someone being punched: Buzz Aldrin getting fed-up with a reporter for saying he didn't go to the moon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRBesDx1WQc
[09:40] <jussi> so, have we all seen the news about Jolla? any thoughts on the phone as a competitor for Ubuntu phone?
[09:42] <MooDoo> in nottingham they are getting shot ;)
[09:42] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Loosen Up, Lighten Up Day! :-D
[09:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> How pertinent.
[09:42] <MooDoo> JamesTait: FO! ;)
[09:42] <SuperMatt> I shall loosen up tonight by hitting the gym
[09:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'll be mostly drinking and eating this evening :-)
[09:43] <MooDoo> I'm going to purchase some more ghost chilly chutny :D
[09:43] <JamesTait> I'll be... a monkey's uncle! )
[09:43] <diplo> I'm going to the cinema
[09:43]  * JamesTait lets the missing ':' slide.
[09:43] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: do you grow bhut jolkia ?
[09:43] <mungbean> edmonton has stabbings all the time
[09:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: I grow most things :-)
[09:44] <popey> jussi: yeah, interesting plan they have
[09:44] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: you need a summer chilli bbq, ;)
[09:44] <popey> I'm sure they dont consider ubuntu phone as competition, but they probably see ios, android and wp as competition
[09:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: here's my grow list for next year: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+AlanLord/posts/EjawsX1ybzA
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: "bubblegum" chilli?
[09:45] <jussi> popey: yes, I agree, except, amended...  "I'm sure they dont consider ubuntu phone as competition, yet"
[09:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> I need to trim it a bit, but there are others I want to add too!!!
[09:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> The 7 Pot BG is rather unique.
[09:45] <popey> Wonder how they'll convince people to make Sailfish apps when they're doing Android emulation
[09:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Its stemcap ripens with the pod...
[09:46] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: well if you get a decent batch of Naga Bhut Jolokia which is my fave, i'll purchase a few from you :D
[09:46] <popey> I hear the engine they are using for android emulation isn't that great, and some apps wont work in it
[09:46] <popey> useful stop-gap though
[09:46] <jussi> popey: good question, I assume the sailfish apps might be slightly faster, being QML instead of Java
[09:46] <popey> i wouldn't think so
[09:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Did you see the Dorset Naga that Sea Spring Seeds grew this year for a competition to see how many pods they could get from one plant?
[09:46] <popey> with ART, the android java apps compile down to native code now
[09:47] <popey> so potentially much faster than dalvik
[09:47] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: can't say that I did
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Have a guess at how many pods they managed...
[09:47] <jussi> aah, yes, a good point
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> dalvik also did that, but less efficiently
[09:47] <MooDoo> lots
[09:47] <popey> true
[09:47] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: go on, i've no idea
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.seaspringseeds.co.uk/news-and-events/competition
[09:49] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: wow how many
[09:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> 2407
[09:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ripe ones
[09:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> One plant
[09:49] <MooDoo> yes wow that's amazing
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> did they taste good as well
[09:49] <jussi> popey: i think you are correct though, this is a stopgap until they fill their own app store. Guess some of the integration thigns will make the desire for salfish apps, as the android ones wont be at all integrated
[09:49] <popey> yeah, obviously we have the same problem ☻
[09:49] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: my pathetic attempt got me about 2/3 on a plant i did last year, i've a lot to learn my master ;)
[09:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> The Dorset Naga is a selectively bred Naga Morich.
[09:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: They taste lovely but are very hot. ~1m - 1.2m shu
[09:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> I didn't do very well with the superhots this year either MooDoo. I had about a dozen Trinidad Scorpion Butch Ts though.
[09:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> But the Rocoto grew very well
[09:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Got lots of big pods from those.
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I think plain pepper from the supermarket is "too hot" sometimes
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: so... :)
[09:57] <SuperMatt> with upstart, can I create "ephemeral" services? that is, I want a daemon which I can stop and start, and maybe have auto-restart if it dies, but only for this session?
[09:59] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:59] <SuperMatt> morning brobostigon
[09:59] <brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
[09:59] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: put it on a tmpfs, and overlay-mount that to /etc/init/? ;)
[10:00] <SuperMatt> sounds a bit over the top :/
[10:00] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[10:00] <SuperMatt> but it might be the answer I'm looking for
[10:02] <SuperMatt> either that or I write the upstart script in such a way that it deletes itself when powering down ;)
[10:04] <SuperMatt> nope nope nope, overlaying mounts is not the answer
[10:06] <ali12341> why do you want this?
[10:08] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: writing a virus eh>?
[10:08] <SuperMatt> for some horizontal scaling. Say I've created an upstart service for a nodejs daemon, and I want to add another nodejs daemon to cope with the load. I figure I'd probably want to create an upstart job on the fly, and have it disappear on restart
[10:09] <SuperMatt> using upstart, I can control what happens when a daemon dies, such as automatically restarting it
[10:09] <MartijnVdS> how is running >1 nodejs on the same machine going to help though
[10:09] <SuperMatt> nginx working as a load balancer
[10:09] <SuperMatt> it's just a theoretical
[10:09] <MartijnVdS> can't you just tell the existing nodejs to use all available CPUs?
[10:10] <SuperMatt> sure
[10:10] <SuperMatt> but it could be any application, not just node
[10:11] <SuperMatt> I'm also using cgroups to constrain node anyway, so that if one of the nodes dies, the others pick up the slack, rather than have the whole server fall down
[10:11] <SuperMatt> that's the downside to just using one nodejs server ;)
[10:12] <SuperMatt> horizonal scaling > vertical scaling
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> isn't that what juju and EC2 are for though
[10:14] <SuperMatt> not if you're not using ec2 ;)
[10:14] <SuperMatt> though juju might be the answer
[10:14] <SuperMatt> I guess I could write a charm which adds additional nodes to the machine
[10:15] <mgdm> I thought Node was single-threaded, so in order to use more than one CPU you had to run more than one process?
[10:15] <SuperMatt> it is indeed
[10:16] <SuperMatt> and like I said, if that one node instance falls down, your entire app is down
[10:16] <mgdm> I was replying mostly to MartijnVdS there :-)
[10:19] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: wow, backwards
[10:20] <SuperMatt> I think it's kinda deliberate
[10:20] <SuperMatt> it's supposed to be fast
[10:21] <ali12341> if you want fast, program in C not javascript
[10:21] <ali12341> also try to keep your code below 100,000 lines
[10:21] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: it's eventy and everything is supposed to be non-blocking so it spins threads off left right and centre to handle other things
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> also, do as little as possible during the request, pre-cache or pre-generate everything you can
[10:22] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: but that means you need loads of processes and a load balancer or reverse proxy to use all your hardware
[10:24] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: that works for pretty much any language/platform :-)
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: yeah, do less -> stuff gets faster
[10:28] <GentileBen> MartijnVdS, you must be disappointed rVDS is out of the internationals with a toe injury.
[10:28] <GentileBen> Er, RVP.
[10:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> <proud dad>Was talking to my youngest son last night about what he'd been up to at school. Says he was helping his teacher with Scratch ;-) Told me he'd written a version of "Pong" in it. Said it was quite hard getting the "bounce" quite right. He's 9 :-D </proud dad>
[10:28] <GentileBen> We need VDS to be a gk coach to DdG.
[10:28] <MartijnVdS> cool :)
[10:29] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I wrote my first code around that age (in GW-BASIC on some PC/XT clone)
[10:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> I think I was hacking around on our first machine (a compukit 101) when I was that age, but just checked and it didn't come out until 1979! I was 14 then...
[10:31] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I still have my .bas files somewhere :)
[10:32] <MartijnVdS> spent a few days rescuing them from an old 5.25" floppy a few years ago
[10:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have a 5.25" floppy. As my wife likes to call it ;-)
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: And when it becomes inflexible, it's 3.5"?
[10:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> "It's COLD out here!"
[10:35] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: thats awesome!
[10:35] <mgdm> what, his 5.25*ahem*
[10:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> What my 5.25" ;-)
[10:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> gah beat me to it mgdm
[10:35] <MartijnVdS> stop beating your 5.25" here in the channel please
[10:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I was telling him about your kid coding thing.
[10:41] <popey> i have another starting in a couple of weeks
[10:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> What was the programme called again?
[10:46] <GentileBen> MartijnVdS it's more like a 1.8"
[10:46] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: code club?
[10:46] <GentileBen> A 1.8" micro-SATA device
[10:46] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: https://www.codeclub.org.uk/
[10:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> That was it. Thanks MooDoo
[10:53] <DJones> For a 65 year old looking to buy a new desktop machine, for use with email/internet/word processing etc, can you think of a reason not to buy a cheapish machine with a celeron processor, he's not going to be a power user, just wondered if anybody would suggest against it
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> DJones: chromebook?
[10:54] <DJones> MartijnVdS: He wants a desktop machine and Windows because thats what he's used to
[10:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Get one of those ebuyer Zoom things then?
[10:55] <DJones> The zoostorm ones?
[10:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's it.
[10:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Or similar of course.
[10:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Probably make little difference.
[10:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Do he have a case and PSU, monitor etc?
[10:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> You could probably get a mobo, cpu and ram for less.
[10:56] <DJones> Yeah, but very old
[10:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> ATX power harness?
[10:57] <ali12341> if you want windows that pretty much means you will need windows 7
[10:57] <ali12341> and that means a celeron will not be fast enough
[10:58] <ali12341> you should get dual core i5 as a minimum
[10:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Get him an RPi instead ;-)
[10:58] <DJones> No idea, its a very old Dell desktop so would think it'll be fairly standard, machine is probably about 10 years old running XP, although I think one HDD's in it has just failed
[10:59] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: apparently there is this effort to purchase a number of pi's and make a cluster out of them ;)
[10:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh Dell, doubt it. They used to use proprietary power - I had that problem.
[10:59] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> And RAMBUS :-(
[10:59] <ali12341> yeah you won't be able to reuse anything from a 10 year old dell
[10:59] <MooDoo> mornign davmor2
[11:00] <DJones> To be honest, I wasn't planning on reusing anything, I'd rather he bought something off the shelf so I don't have to fart around with it
[11:02] <ali12341> optiplex 9020 small form factor 4th generation i5, 8GB, windows 7, £641 + VAT and shipping
[11:03] <DJones> Thats about twice what he planning on paying, TheOpenSourcerer's suggestion of the zoostorm machines is a good one
[11:03] <ali12341> well that's the cost of running windows for you
[11:03] <ali12341> if you buy a cheap ass computer, don't act surprised when it takes 10 minutes to load up
[11:04] <mgdm> cheap ass-computer
[11:05] <ali12341> yes
[11:06] <ali12341> http://www.asscomputer.de/
[11:06] <DJones> I've never had that problem, the £300 machines I use at work boot win 7 in under a minute, they're 4Gb Pentium R machines at 2.7Ghz
[11:07] <MooDoo> my laptop is only 4gb 2.1 and that boots winows fine....windows 81 too
[11:08] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:10] <MooDoo> morning bigcalm
[11:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: how do
[11:12] <davmor2> MooDoo: 'Ow do
[11:12] <MooDoo> davmor2: ayup youth
[11:12] <bigcalm> Howdy doody
[11:13] <davmor2> MooDoo: Youth I'm only a year younger than you you owld coot
[11:13] <MooDoo> davmor2: i'm in a good mood mate so you get compliments, just for today like.
[11:14] <davmor2> MooDoo: Hahaha did you get the day off work?
[11:14] <MooDoo> davmor2: nope, 5 hours sleep and lots of coffee ;)
[11:16]  * davmor2 pictures MooDoo shouting Minion Get ME COFFEE, and minion replying get it yourself 
[11:16] <MooDoo> davmor2: seems to work when i sudo get me a coffee ;)
[11:17] <davmor2> MooDoo: haha :)
[11:38] <jussi> so, jolla device will be out on 27th of this month
[11:38] <popey> in finland only?
[11:38] <jussi> yeah, in december elsewhere I think
[11:39] <jussi> popey: https://twitter.com/JollaHQ
[12:43] <awilkins> Snapchat guy should have taken the money and RUN, giggling like a schoolgirl on the way
[12:45] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: then bought it back for $3 in a year or two
[12:46] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Hah, yes. To me the whole thing feels like some guy who made an app because he realised that ladies were not as inclined to send gentlemen compromising pictures any more because of news events that underlined the inadvisability of doing so
[12:46] <awilkins> Maybe even just as a jolly jape for the boys at Stanford
[13:27] <MooDoo> lol i didn't realise 3 out of 5 people have claimed the pi and a pint :) awesome
[13:29] <MartijnVdS> they just want to meet the legendary Alans
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> (I'm on 2/3, afaik)
[13:31] <AlanBell> MooDoo: yup, the third one was claimed today, by someone from Belgium!
[13:32] <AlanBell> still 2 left though if you hurry :)
[13:33] <MooDoo> hehe :)
[13:33] <AlanBell> very very close to the halfway mark
[13:34] <MooDoo> yes and 41 days left, very impressed
[13:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah come on you lot... £17 to get to 50%...
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> and how much for a pint?
[13:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> £150 :-)
[13:35] <MooDoo> 150
[13:39] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: why don't you do another one, £200 all the stuff + a guest spot on the ubuntu uk podcast ;)
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> that would be popey
[13:40] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: isn't popey part of this initiative as well?
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: sure, but you're asking TheOpenSourcerer, who isn't a podcast person :)
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> well not a regular presenter, anyway
[13:40] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I know i was thinking out loud :D
[13:41] <popey> I'm not really part of it.
[13:41] <popey> They just needed more Alans
[13:41] <MooDoo> ah
[13:41] <popey> I will happily help out if they need it though, of course.
[13:41] <MartijnVdS> The Alan Singularity!
[13:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Well, actually Alan needed moar Alans ;-)
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> Alanis?
[13:44] <mgdm> More Alans? Morissette Alanis? I can see how you got confused
[13:44] <MartijnVdS> More Alans, is it?
[13:47] <MooDoo> https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4653472512/h1FF39D6F/
[13:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> One can never haz more Alan
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> Ellen then?
[13:49] <MooDoo> or helen?
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> Alien?
[13:49] <mgdm> Alanien
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> though "Bell", "Lord" and "Pope" all have religious meanings
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> and three -> holy trinity of Alans?
[13:52] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: we three kings of ubuntu-uk are....
[13:52] <MooDoo> carrying pi's and clusters a far
[13:53] <MooDoo> oooooo alan of wonder alan of might, alan a star that's shining so bright ;)
[13:53] <MooDoo> ok i'll shut up now
[13:53] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: this is almost turning into an Alan Davies introduction on QI 8-)
[13:54] <MooDoo> well that's numberwang ;)
[13:54] <MartijnVdS> let's rotate the board!
[14:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> I used to work with a bloke called Tony King. When we arrived at hotels in foreign places we used to get some odd looks at times... "Lord" & "King" checking in please.
[14:05] <daftykins> TheOpenSourcerer: did you ever carry his bags as recognition of his higher rank? :)
[14:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> Pah.
[14:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> In many countries Lord trumps a king.
[14:08] <daftykins> really 0o
[14:11] <MooDoo> hehe you said trump
[14:12] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: what "the" Lord or "a" lord?
[14:13] <popey> hm, thought nexus 7 was supposed to get 4.4 yesterday?
[14:14] <MartijnVdS> popey: they started rollout, I think.
[14:14] <MartijnVdS> popey: when Google say that, you'll usually get it within a week or 2
[14:14] <MartijnVdS> at least, on Nexus phones
[14:14] <popey> blimey
[14:23] <selinuxium> hello all    o/
[14:23] <MartijnVdS> \o selinuxium
[14:23] <MooDoo> selinuxium: afternoon
[14:24] <MartijnVdS> \o/ new Doctor Who "prequel" "mini-episode"
[14:24]  * MartijnVdS won't spoil
[14:24] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: where you seend that?
[14:24] <MartijnVdS> but it's on iplayer and youtube if you want to watch :)
[14:25] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: what's it called?
[14:25] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Robert Webb's twitter :)
[14:25] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: see pm :)
[14:26] <MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/arobertwebb/status/400985118971404289
[14:26]  * popey has watched it twice already :D
[14:27]  * MartijnVdS can't wait now :)
[14:27] <MooDoo> ta will watch it later :)
[14:27] <popey> its great ☻

[14:28] <daftykins> can't believe the tablets get kitkat before the Nexus 4
[14:28] <daftykins> :<
[14:28]  * MartijnVdS strokes his Nexus 5
[14:28] <daftykins> but anyway these updates are never even that worth it
[14:28] <daftykins> they won't change anything for me
[14:28]  * popey looks forward to ubuntu touch on a nexus 10 ☻
[14:28] <MooDoo> HOLY C**P MartijnVdS  :D
[14:28] <popey> that new asus transformer looks interesting
[14:28] <popey> pretty cheap device
[14:29] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: hm>
[14:29] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taJ_KPJnwmM
[14:37] <daftykins> heh just ran crystaldiskinfo on this laptop i have in of someones
[14:37] <davmor2> Yay isp technician has been I has interwebz again that doesn't knock me off every hour to get a new dhcp lease
[14:37] <daftykins> it claims this 250GB HDD has performed 14TB of reads and 86 *PB* of writes
[14:37] <popey> new router?
[14:38] <popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/11/ubuntu-tablet-will-key-focus-ubuntu-14-04-lts-cycle
[14:38] <popey> \o/
[14:40] <MooDoo> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/11/ubuntu-tablet-will-key-focus-ubuntu-14-04-lts-cycle
[14:40] <MooDoo> oops
[14:43] <davmor2> popey: whole bunch of attenuation tests, signal test, new booster, power and noise tests, flash from the office and a new modem to be doubly sure
[14:43] <popey> haha
[14:43] <popey> so yeah, new modem ☻
[14:44] <davmor2> popey: basically  I get a 1 week lease time now
[14:46] <davmor2> popey: I showed the bloke the issue and he went, well I've never seen that before hmmm
[14:48] <ali1234> oh good, so the desktop will continue to be neglected through until 2016... great
[14:48] <ali1234> just what i wanted to hear
[14:48] <bashrc> the desktop is where it's at
[14:48] <davmor2> ali1234: what are you on about.  The question that was ask was so the first LTS that will be unity 8 will be 2016
[14:49] <ali1234> davmor2: i'm "on about" the lack of any focus at all on the desktop software you ship
[14:50] <davmor2> ali1234: the unity 7 desktop will get some improvements and security fixes. Which is how it should be for an LTS
[14:50] <ali1234> like the improvements it got in 13.10?
[14:50] <ali1234> or 13.04?
[14:50] <ali1234> oh wait, there weren't any
[14:50] <ali1234> it's practically abandoned software at this point
[14:52] <bashrc> abandonware
[14:52] <bashrc> are there no non-Canonical Unity developers?
[14:52] <diddledan> stick it on homeoftheunderdogs.net
[14:53] <ali1234> bashrc: there aren't nearly enough to fix all the bugs
[14:53] <AlanBell> bashrc: depends what you call a unity developer
[14:54] <bashrc> someone who has enough knowledge of it to add features or fix bugs
[14:54] <AlanBell> there are non-canonical people doing a few things like lenses or integrating with the Unity API
[14:54] <AlanBell> doing core stuff, probably just Canonical folk
[14:55] <bashrc> sounds like it has a high bus factors
[14:55] <MartijnVdS> low*
[14:55] <bashrc> maybe low
[14:55] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: "The bus factor is the total number of key developers who would need to be incapacitated, for example, by getting hit by a bus/truck) to send the project into such disarray that it would not be able to proceed.", to quote Wikipedia :)
[14:56] <bashrc> low then
[14:56] <ali1234> that basically already happened when the compiz maintainer left
[14:56] <ali1234> nobody else has a clue how that code works
[14:56] <bashrc> eesh
[14:56] <MartijnVdS> bus factor: 0
[14:57] <MartijnVdS> now that's a podcast title 8-)
[14:57] <bashrc> does that mean that Unity is effectively a dead project now?
[14:57] <ali1234> unity 7 is, yes
[14:57] <AlanBell> unity 7
[14:57] <daftykins> says a lot about bus drivers
[14:57] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: Old (current on desktop) unity, yes
[14:57] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: dbus drivers?
[14:57] <ali1234> unfortunately this dead project will be the default desktop for ubuntu until 2016
[14:58] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: and be supported until 2019!
[14:58] <MartijnVdS> or is it 2017
[14:58] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: you should have a drink with diddledan sometime - and record the convo
[14:58] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: Why? :)
[14:58] <davmor2> ali1234: how will it be?  in 14.10 you get unity8 on the desktop
[14:58] <bashrc> maybe I should become a Unity developer then :)
[14:58] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: podcast titles/band names/etc.?
[14:58] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: you two and your humour :P
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: apparently, we should make a sketch show.
[14:59] <popey> davmor2: 2014 + 5 (lts)
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> popey: except + 3 (desktop)
[14:59] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: do it do it
[15:00] <ali1234> bashrc: unity 7 or unity 8?
[15:00] <diddledan> :-)
[15:00] <popey> 5
[15:00] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: +5 on desktop too
[15:00] <bashrc> I don't know the difference betwee 7 and 8
[15:00] <diddledan> +1 on google
[15:00] <diddledan> what are we +ing, anyway?
[15:01] <ali1234> bashrc: unity 7 is what the desktop uses and unity 8 is what the phone and tablet uses
[15:01] <popey> unity7 is a compiz plugin
[15:01] <popey> unity8 is qml
[15:01] <ali1234> bashrc: unity 7 is abandoned at this point and does not receive bug fixes (it does receive backported shiny new features however, which introduce even more bugs)
[15:01] <diddledan> so unity 8 is a complete rewrite
[15:01] <popey> not true ali1234
[15:02] <bashrc> what's the current unity version?
[15:02] <popey> 7
[15:02] <popey> (on desktop, 8 on phone)
[15:02] <diddledan> confusing much?
[15:02] <bashrc> will 8 also be on the desktop?
[15:02] <popey> yes
[15:02] <ali1234> popey: can you name a bug in unity 7 which was fixed this cycle?
[15:02] <diddledan> why couldn't we use 8 on both?
[15:02] <popey> by 14.10 or 15.04
[15:02] <davmor2> ali1234: unity7 is in maintenance  which means it gets bug fixes and security updates.
[15:02] <popey> not off the top of my head because I don't work on that, but if forced to go and look for one, sure
[15:03] <bashrc> so if I were to become a Unity develope I'd go for 8, rather than trying to revive the abandonware
[15:03] <diddledan> I think unity7 should be renamed commander keen
[15:04] <diddledan> that way we'd know it's abandoned :-p
[15:04] <popey> bug 1153350
[15:04] <popey> bug 1064155
[15:04] <popey> bug 1181367
[15:04] <popey> bug 1074038
[15:04] <diddledan> plus. commander keen was awesome
[15:04] <popey> etc
[15:05] <popey> it's not "abandonware"
[15:05] <diddledan> I'm just being silly, popey
[15:05] <MartijnVdS> just "maintenance mode"-ware
[15:05] <diddledan> "jumping on the band-wagon"
[15:05] <AlanBell> Unity is quite a lot better in 13.10 than 13.04 long term it is a dead end, but it isn't dead yet
[15:06] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's pining for the fjords
[15:06] <AlanBell> nailed to the desktop
[15:06] <ali1234> that last one was fixed by the same person who reported it :/
[15:06] <daftykins> lol
[15:06] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: an ex-desktop environment
[15:06] <AlanBell> pushing up the pixels
[15:07] <diddledan> ex = used to be, desk = lump of wood, top = close to bottom: used to be a wooden bum
[15:07] <bashrc> it's not dead yet!
[15:07] <diddledan> AlanBell: derezzing :-p
[15:20] <diplo> My shared web host
[15:20] <diplo> top - 15:20:19 up 42 days, 10:03,  6 users,  load average: 17.37, 12.23, 11.69
[15:20] <diplo> !!!!!!!
[15:21] <davmor2> ali1234: what does that have to do with anything?  I see devs report bugs all the time then latter on in the release have the time to fix them so do
[15:21] <MartijnVdS> diplo: what's up with that?
[15:21] <diplo> :)
[15:21] <diplo> Up to 19 now, going to crash soon
[15:21] <MartijnVdS> ah, load spike
[15:22] <diplo> For 10 mins
[15:22] <diplo> Sites are all down ( customers )
[15:22] <MartijnVdS> ewps
[15:24] <andyc> #ubuntu
[15:24] <davmor2> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3100694470  yay reliable speed too woohoo!
[15:24] <popey>  15:24:54 up 444 days, 16:05,  1 user,  load average: 0.16, 0.06, 0.01
[15:25] <popey> ☻
[15:25] <popey>    %up              100.000 | since                     Sun Aug 26 23:19:02 2012
[15:25] <popey> \o/100% uptime
[15:25] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[15:25] <diplo> Really need to sort out a dedicated server, i just need more time!
[15:26] <MartijnVdS> diplo: get a vps :)
[15:26] <diplo> yeah it's just making sure we can administer it properly. That's the benefit of other hosts
[15:26] <diplo> They don't give me time
[15:27] <bigcalm>    %up               99.987 | since                     Tue Feb 19 08:27:23 2013
[15:34] <diplo> It's dropped to around 15 now :/
[15:34] <diplo> Maybe more priority is needed on a new server host :)
[15:36]  * daftykins pats BigV
[15:36] <popey> https://www.ovh.co.uk/dedicated_servers/ are super cheap
[15:36] <popey> and all sold out ☻
[15:36] <diplo> http://www.bigv.io/
[15:36] <diplo> I was looking at the ones the Alans use with hetzner
[15:36] <daftykins> i have one ^
[15:37] <diplo> I'll look at both, it's getting ridiculous now with this host
[15:37] <daftykins> £282.50 for the 32GB Nexus 5 if they were to remove VAT
[15:37] <daftykins> at least us Channel Islanders can even *view* them this time
[15:41] <Azelphur> I wish I could get it minus VAT :(
[15:41] <daftykins> ;)
[15:42] <Azelphur> there again, I could probably pay 1 bitcoin and get one.
[15:42] <Azelphur> xD
[15:42] <daftykins> they never did refund my Nexus 4's VAT
[15:42] <daftykins> the support rep refused to continue with my emails eventually - after continually changing tack within the correspondance
[15:42] <daftykins> it was clear they were making it up as they went along
[15:43] <Azelphur> I thought you're supposed to claim vat back via the government ?
[15:43] <daftykins> depends on the circumstance
[15:46] <davmor2> If anyone hasn't seen it, now you see me is a cracking film with a nice little twist :)
[15:47] <diddledan> davmor2: I thought it was awesome
[15:48] <davmor2> diddledan: and the twist is funky as hell right :)
[15:48] <diddledan> yup, I didn't see it coming
[15:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> That ovh stuff does look cheap. Shame it's all sold out. Never seen that at Hetzner ;-)
[15:53] <shauno> I still don't get the VAT stuff.  don't you pay that at point of purchase?  eg, if I order stuff from the UK, I pay the UK's VAT on it
[15:53] <daftykins> shauno: nah all decent etailers deduct it at point of sale
[15:54] <daftykins> however some are really terrible at it, for example ebuyer.com i have to pay the VAT first, then ask for a refund afterwards
[15:54] <shauno> is it just for the UK? how does that work with the rest of the EU?
[15:54] <penguin42> shauno: I've seen signs on shops near touristy sites saying they can pay without vat
[15:55]  * penguin42 doesn't know how you prove you're not local
[15:55] <daftykins> well i'm not in the EU
[15:55] <shauno> ah
[15:55] <daftykins> presumably if you're travelling you have a passport on you
[15:55] <penguin42> true
[15:55] <daftykins> kinda funny seeing the French off the cruise ships all asking to pay in Euros in my local shops
[15:55] <daftykins> i didn't even know they could
[15:56] <penguin42> daftykins: do you need a passport?
[15:56] <daftykins> not to get to England
[15:56] <shauno> that's always been the case penguin42, they've just made schemes to streamline it now. otherwise they can claim tax back (with a fist-full of receipts) at the airport
[15:57] <daftykins> there's supposed to be a customs desk in Gatwick where you can submit a refund request, as a client of mine often buys electronics from Dixons travel in the departure bit, then goes to request the refund immediately :D
[15:57] <shauno> doesn't do much for us because we're EU, we're stil liable for VAT.  more for americans & such
[15:57] <diddledan> I've always had to pay vat on purchases from europe
[15:58] <shauno> but I didn't realise the islands weren't in the EU .. that's what confuses everything
[15:59] <diddledan> I don't get the channel island tax haven bit - you import from us to channel is. and don't pay import tax. then you import from channel is. to britain and still don't pay import tax because it's from britain
[16:00] <shauno> so far I've found it easier to just believe them when they tell me they're "a bit different"
[16:01] <diddledan> and then if you accept that you don't pay tax at all on imports through the channel islands, wth isn't _EVERYTHING_ imported through them?
[16:02] <diplo> popey: Do you know anyone who has used OVH?
[16:03] <shauno> probably because companies big enough to start worrying about fudging such things, have 100 easier loopholes to play with
[16:04] <popey> diplo: no
[16:04] <daftykins> thing is they all left since Low Value Consignment Relief got canned by the British gov. (LVCR)
[16:04] <daftykins> HMV gutted their warehouse
[16:04] <daftykins> 7dayshop as well i believe
[16:04] <AlanBell> shauno: just small companies like tesco
[16:05] <diplo> OK ta
[16:05] <shauno> well, I mean why bother bouncing physical goods around when you can just route the funds instead
[16:08] <shauno> most of it just boggles my mind though.  finances at that scale always sound like they were written by Douglas Adams
[16:09] <daftykins> :D
[16:11] <shauno> I mean, on paper I don't actually work for the same company as my boss
[16:13] <daftykins> seems legit
[16:15] <popey> same here ☻
[16:18] <penguin42> daftykins: So what's left there other than cows?
[16:18] <daftykins> err
[16:18] <daftykins> lots of finance, lots of pubs
[16:19] <daftykins> lots of beaches and sea :D
[16:20] <shauno> I was transferred to the parent company a couple of years back.  so now I work for a french company, and he works for the irish arm of an american subsidiary
[16:20] <daftykins> hehe
[16:21] <penguin42> daftykins: And what do you do with a bunch of large empty warehouses - sounds like an opportunity for *something*
[16:22] <davmor2> penguin42: you fill them with rocket launchers and take over the world muhahahahahaha......or something like that :)
[16:22] <daftykins> actually the one that HMV pulled out of was our old post office, the local gov. guy behind commerce is recommending turning it into a technology startups place
[16:24] <penguin42> are their local tech startups ?
[16:25] <daftykins> don't think so XD
[16:25] <daftykins> he may've said just small business come to think of it
[16:25] <daftykins> i didn't pay too much attention
[16:25] <penguin42> too pricey for them I guess - except maybe as spinouts from finance companies
[16:25] <daftykins> the guy used to be a radio DJ ¬_¬
[16:25] <penguin42> riiiight
[16:26] <daftykins> just applied for my appointment to request whether i'm allowed to insulate my house!
[16:26] <daftykins> woop woop
[16:26] <penguin42> inside or out?
[16:27] <daftykins> inside the roof
[16:27] <penguin42> wth would you need to ask to do that?
[16:27] <daftykins> my property is a 17th century fully listed townhouse :)
[16:27] <daftykins> it's part of the island's heritage \o/
[16:28] <penguin42> ah
[16:31] <daftykins> also most of my windows are a couple of mm thick glass in wooden frames
[16:31] <daftykins> the windows don't even close flush in the frame so my place is very cold in winter
[16:32] <daftykins> i need to spend a fair bit to beef things up
[17:35] <diddledan> and now I've done that job I'm going to get told that a service has gone critical :-/ GLSA (security) alerting - I know the server is way out of date, but I've only just put the notifier on there
[17:59] <daftykins> some geek porn for you, gentlemen
[17:59] <daftykins> from the dafty in dust bunny horror archives
[17:59] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bbma398znt8hl7x/IMG_20131114_174809.jpg
[17:59] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ugyz886qmrs8m95/IMG_20131114_174831.jpg
[18:00] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/co5li9btogk00gs/IMG_20131114_175752.jpg
[18:01] <popey> heh
[18:03] <diddledan> oh my, it's furry
[18:03] <daftykins> =]
[18:03] <Azelphur> hehe
[18:03] <daftykins> can't even take the fan shroud out =/
[18:04] <daftykins> quick toothbrush application to the heatsink made it all perfect, they're always in this state i find - peoples laptops
[18:05] <daftykins> thermal paste is not even on the flat of the processor die >_<
[18:05] <daftykins> 2GHz Pentium DC ;)
[18:13] <daftykins> i haven't even touched the thermal paste, as i was told not to spend too much time on this one - temps have gone from 40-60 idling to 28-30 deg C
[18:13] <daftykins> :>
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> nice
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: much better than my uncle's milk machine controlling P3 :)
[18:22] <daftykins> :D
[18:22] <daftykins> 80 deg under load from prime95 though
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: one of its heat sink retainers had broken off
[18:22] <daftykins> that'll be the poor thermal paste
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: so its thermal paste went away.. and the CPU burned
[18:23] <daftykins> aww
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> It was still running *DOS* (the one that comes with Win98) to control the milking machine/feeding machine over a serial cable
[18:24] <daftykins> \o/
[18:24] <daftykins> a nice reliable PIII sounds ideal
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> he had another he'd almost never used
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> just cleaned out the dust and *purr*
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> I dd'ed the hard disk contents over, because old hard disk = scary
[18:25] <daftykins> *nod* :)
[18:33] <diddledan> old hard disc = decorations
[18:33] <diddledan> :-D
[18:34] <daftykins> supplies of shiny mirrors and magnets alone ;)
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> shiny magnets!
[18:41] <daftykins> \o/
[18:41] <daftykins> now to convince the people in question to pick new hard disks for these two systems
[18:42] <daftykins> will they go mechanical? hybrid? SSD? ;)
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> PATA SSDs?
[18:42] <daftykins> nah both systems are SATA
[18:42] <daftykins> one is an i3 samsung, this Dell is a Pentium DC
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> http://sugru.com/blog/4-for-3-christmas-offer-on-all-sugru-packs
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> ^ in case anyone needs some
[18:44]  * daftykins wonders what they are
[18:50] <GentileBen> Japanese sugar?
[18:57] <DJones> Yay, finally found out what was using all my space on the server, stupid backup backing up to the wrong partition
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> DJones: ouch
[18:58] <daftykins> doh!
[18:58] <DJones> Yep, DOH!
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> ooh, The Science of Doctor Who will be followed by the (few years old now) Doctor Who edition of NMtB
[19:03] <diddledan> nmtp. now my toes burst?
[19:04] <shauno> never mind the buzzcocks?
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> shauno: ding!
[19:04] <diddledan> aah
[19:05] <shauno> and we don't even live there!  come on dan!
[19:05] <diddledan> I'd have put a C on for the bit beginning with c
[19:06] <diddledan> I'm bound to get into trouble for saying it standalone
[19:20] <shauno> next step in my SD card saga, it seems the problem is my mac, not the cards, surprisingly.  work laptop is writing to them at over 8MB/s
[19:41] <penguin42> shauno: Which mac - running Mac OS?
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: SHA256 8-)
[19:41] <shauno> 2011 mbp running current 10.9
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: HMAC-
[19:42] <shauno> writing the same image to the same card, xp on my work laptop took 7-8 minutes, my mac took about 100
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> sequentially or random-access?
[19:42] <shauno> sequentially, this is still my dd woes :)
[19:43] <penguin42> ok, so you've tried two completely different machines with two completely different OSs
[19:43] <penguin42> shauno: Boot an Ubuntu live image on the Mac and see if that can write the SD sanely?
[19:44] <shauno> I've yet to find an ubuntu image that'll boot sensibly on this :/
[19:44] <ali1234> i wouldn't bet on ubuntu actually working either
[19:44] <ali1234> dd to usb has some real bad problems on linux
[19:45] <penguin42> shauno: OK, try fedora - they have a multiboot thing which I know has some magic for Macs
[19:46] <shauno> downloading that now
[19:46] <davmor2> shauno: what is it you are trying to do?
[19:48] <shauno> originally, I was trying to write a disk image to an sd card that another machine boots off.  that's working, now I'm just trying to figure out why my laptop writes to SD *significantly* slower than anything else
[19:48] <roht> buona sera
[19:49] <shauno> eg, my amiga writes to it at 1.6MB/sec.  my laptop gets about 0.6MB/sec
[19:49] <roht> come faccio a riportare in lingua italiana ubuntu 13.10 che ho installato in inglese?
[19:49] <davmor2> shauno: it hates you :)
[19:49] <AlanBell> !it
[19:49] <roht> sorry
[19:49] <roht> have done a mistake
[19:52] <ali1234> shauno: what you doing anyway?
[19:53] <ali1234> you might find this useful: https://github.com/ali1234/wbrecovery
[19:53] <ali1234> or this: https://github.com/ali1234/pyadt
[19:53] <shauno> just smuggling drivers onto my amiga.  read the image off the card, open it in an emulator, copy things in/out as needed, and then write it back again
[19:53] <penguin42> shauno: Sorry, did you just say you'd try writing an SD card with your amiga?!
[19:54] <shauno> penguin42: yes, the card lives in an SD->IDE adaptor, and functions as the harddrive for my amiga :)
[19:54] <ali1234> pyadt probably would be useful for you. you can download anything from aminet, just needs a getty on the serial port
[19:55] <shauno> yeah, ppp.device and amitcp are some of the things I'm trying to copy across
[19:55] <ali1234> i wouldn't bother, it's a pain
[19:55] <shauno> since this is obviously a less-than-ideal workflow
[19:55] <ali1234> just use sz and ncomm
[19:55] <penguin42> shauno: Oh well, easy - just wire it to an IDE-USB bridge and write it from something else :-)
[19:56] <shauno> well, once I get compactflash.device and fat95 installed, I won't need to do this dance, I can just use the pcmcia slot
[19:56] <shauno> it has removable storage, just no drivers for it
[19:56] <ali1234> also this: https://github.com/ali1234/avr-amiga-controller
[19:57] <davmor2> shauno: does mac have a tool like file roller that might extract an iso/image file if so what happen if you just use real mac tools to extract to the sd card
[19:57] <ali1234> lets you control the amiga using synergy but needs special hardware
[19:57] <ali1234> (ie an arduino or similar)
[19:58] <ali1234> davmor2: it's amiga fast file system. i doubt it was ported to mac
[19:58] <ali1234> ubuntu can read it... kind of... but not properly
[19:59] <shauno> if I understood him correctly, he's actually got a good point; writing to the card with something other than dd
[20:00] <davmor2> shauno: Yeap basically try a dedicated mac tool and see if it is some restriction on hardware for using non mac shiny stuff
[20:01] <ali1234> should've got a CF card instead...
[20:03] <diddledan> shauno: you're using /dev/rdiskx, right?
[20:03] <diddledan> rather than /dev/diskx
[20:05] <shauno> tried both with no noticable difference
[20:05] <diddledan> weird
[20:06] <diddledan> usually rdisk is much faster than disk
[20:06] <shauno> hm, disk utility will rip an image off significantly faster than dd has, but won't write it back because it wants to 'validate' it first
[20:09] <penguin42> shauno: And you're using a decent blocksize now to dd?
[20:12] <shauno> yeah, 4m seems to the fastest
[20:12] <shauno> been toying with that one too.  it gets faster & faster as they get larger, but when I go past 4m it gets significantly slower.  so I assume that's somewhere close to what the card's using internally
[20:14] <diddledan> shauno: you could try with a binary number like 4194304
[20:14] <diddledan> I donno whether that's the same as 4m or not
[20:14] <ali1234> on linux 4m and 4M are different
[20:14] <diddledan> ali1234: that's what I thought
[20:14] <ali1234> one of them is power-of-two
[20:14] <ali1234> i don't remember which
[20:15] <diddledan> upper case M is the power of two iirc
[20:15] <directhex> depends on the app
[20:15] <ali1234> yeah
[20:15] <ali1234> i think this was truncate
[20:15] <diddledan> directhex: dd
[20:15] <directhex> df uses "M" for ^2 and MB for ^10
[20:16]  * penguin42 notes it's hopelessly inconsistent so I wouldn't bet on what any one program does
[20:16] <directhex> dd does the same
[20:16] <directhex>        N and BYTES may be followed by the following multiplicative suffixes: c =1, w =2, b =512, kB =1000, K =1024, MB =1000*1000, M =1024*1024, xM =M GB =1000*1000*1000,
[20:16] <directhex>        G =1024*1024*1024, and so on for T, P, E, Z, Y.
[20:17] <shauno> bsd's does that differently; If the number ends with a ``b'', ``k'', ``m'', ``g'', or ``w'', the number is multiplied by  512, 1024 (1K), 1048576 (1M), 1073741824 (1G) or the number of bytes in an integer, respectively
[20:17] <diddledan> looks like bsd dd is weird as usual
[20:18] <shauno> it doesn't accept M, even though the manual uses M to describe what m does
[20:18] <shauno> although specifying blocksizes in millibytes would explain a lot
[20:19] <diddledan> shauno: what about using a different method - cat file.img > /dev/disk56s2 ?
[20:19] <diddledan> rdisk**
[20:19] <diddledan> meh
[20:19] <directhex> only kibinibbles makes sense
[20:19] <diddledan> I want to know what a milibit is
[20:20] <shauno> kibinibbles sound edible :D
[20:20] <diddledan> the number of people I see talking about their mb (milibit)
[20:20] <ali1234> fractions of a bit only mak sense in terms of number theory
[20:20] <diddledan> ali1234: exactly my point
[20:20] <ali1234> for example "how many bits does it take to represent a number between 0 and 5 inclusive?"
[20:21] <diddledan> "I've got a 50 mb internet connexion! OMGZORS" (milibit)
[20:21] <ali1234> yes i suppose that could make sense too
[20:21] <shauno> hm, writing this fedora iso to usb is also going entertaingly slow (13,284 bytes/sec).  I wonder if 10.9 has done something silly to dd
[20:21] <directhex> shauno, what block size did you specify?
[20:22] <shauno> 4 just because I'd been using it before
[20:22] <directhex> 4M?
[20:22] <shauno> right
[20:26] <shauno> interesting.  cat took 1min42 for a 950Mb ISO
[20:27] <ali1234> do you have gnudd?
[20:27] <ali1234> i know you have gnutar (still an old version, but less braindead than the OS X tar)
[20:32] <shauno> And fedora boots a whole lot more convincingly. That's handy to know :)
[20:36] <diddledan> I've never had a problem booting ubuntu on any of my macs
[20:37] <mgdm> I remember running the very first Ubuntu on an iBook G4 back in ~2004ish
[20:37] <shauno> It's fine if you have internal optical. If you have to use USB, you have to use efi; and then you're in for a world of pain
[20:37] <mgdm> or 2005
[20:38] <diddledan> again, I've always done EFI
[20:38] <shauno> eg, when booted with efi mine sees my gpu, and uses it. But doesn't do the gpu switching stuff, so doesn't switch the screen to use the gpu
[20:39] <diddledan> aah, I don't have one of those fancy switchables
[20:39] <shauno> Result is that the last thing you'll see during boot is the kernel saying it's using the. Radeonfb driver.
[20:40] <shauno> If you use bios-emulation, gpu switching isn't available so this doesn't come up
[20:44] <shauno> I spent a while trying to blacklist the Radeon drivers, force it to use efifb, etc. gave up in the end
[20:45] <shauno> This is spewing kernel errors writing to sd
[20:46] <shauno> Timed out sending r/w command, dma: out of space for 65535 bytes at device ..
[21:01] <daubers> evening
[21:01] <shauno> ah well, that's enough OT for tonight.  I have some ideas to play with now, thanks
[21:01] <shauno> think I'll take a break and see what other crazy things live in ali1234's github ;)
[21:02] <mgdm> 'lo daubers
[21:02]  * mgdm finds the monitor he has had for 3 years has audio out, for use with HDMI...
[21:02] <mgdm> need to find my speakers now
[21:04] <Myrtti> BBC2 now btw
[21:08] <Azelphur> I have officially managed to escape a 2 year contract with talktalk with no exit fee, woo \o/
[21:08] <Myrtti> where to?
[21:09] <Azelphur> Myrtti: Entanet in theory, hopefully greener pastures :)
[21:10] <Azelphur> managed to get out on the basis they were in breach of contract as they physically disconnected my phone line...twice
[21:10] <Azelphur> (amongst tonnes of other terrible)
[21:10] <penguin42> Azelphur: Celebrate when you get the MAC code and it all hands over properly?
[21:11] <Azelphur> penguin42: good point :)
[21:30] <shauno> digging around looking for a floppy drive, just found the shipit disks for 6.06 :)
[21:31] <Myrtti> good stuff
[21:40]  * penguin42 passes shauno a 5.25"
[21:47] <shauno> the drawer of stuff appears to contain everything but the cable.  bother.
[21:54] <diddledan> dammit, it's 2200 already
[21:58] <penguin42> no it's not
[22:00] <penguin42> now it is
[23:58] <daftykins> aah, picked up 2 x 500GB HDDs to fix these two laptops i have in for £33 each
[23:58] <daftykins> i did think about hybrid/SSD but the clients in question would rather save money as these laptops aren't even their main ones anymore