[04:19] <Private_User> Maaz, what is the best shutdown command for Lubuntu?
[04:19] <Maaz> Private_User: Erk, dunno
[04:19] <Private_User> Maaz, :(
[04:19] <Maaz> Private_User: Excuse me?
[04:19] <Private_User> lol
[04:20] <Private_User> Maaz, coffee
[04:20] <Maaz> Private_User: coffee is liquid code
[04:20] <Private_User> lol
[04:23] <Private_User> I guess everybody is still asleep?
[04:24] <Private_User> Wondering if anybody else has been experiencing an issue with in my case lubuntu not shutting down?
[04:24] <Private_User> When I try to shutdown it reboots the machine
[04:25] <Private_User> even tried the terminal
[04:25] <Private_User> using sudo shutdown -P and -H
[04:25] <Private_User> using sudo shutdown -P now and -H
[04:57] <Private_User> ok cool no worries when you guys get a chance let me know how I can resolve this will ask again later when others have logged on
[04:58] <Private_User> cheers for now
[05:17] <Kilos> morning geek types , lurkers included
[05:28] <nuvolari> o/ morning oom Kilos :)
[05:29] <nuvolari> hello Xethron, Private_User, maaz
[05:29] <Maaz> yo
[05:29] <nuvolari> Maaz: coffee please
[05:29] <Maaz> nuvolari: There isn't a pot on
[05:29] <nuvolari> Maaz: coffee on
[05:29]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[05:29] <nuvolari> Maaz: coffee please
[05:29] <Maaz> nuvolari: Now now, we don't want anyone getting caffeine overdoses
[05:29] <nuvolari> you don't know me
[05:29] <Private_User> morning nuvolari and Kilos 
[05:30] <Kilos> lo nuvolari 
[05:30] <Kilos> hi Private_User 
[05:30] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee please
[05:30] <Maaz> Kilos: Yessir
[05:31] <Kilos> nuvolari, just ask for large or larger
[05:32] <Private_User> yo Kilos, what was that command you told me to shut down ubuntu from terminal again? Sorry I forgot where I wrote it down or if I even wrote it down
[05:32] <Kilos> sudo shutdown -h now
[05:33] <Private_User> I have been having issues with shutting down cause when I try to shutdown it reboots the machine
[05:33] <Private_User> yep try that
[05:33] <Kilos> sudo reboot to reboot
[05:33] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for nuvolari and Kilos!
[05:33] <Kilos> oh my
[05:33] <Kilos> wait
[05:33] <Kilos> there was another thing that sorted that
[05:34] <Kilos> sudo aptitude reinstall upstart
[05:34] <Kilos> Maaz, gracias amigo
[05:34] <Maaz> ¡de nada compadre
[05:34] <Private_User> I even tried this solution http://netgator.blogspot.com/2012/07/ubuntu-lubuntu-1204-shutdown-doesnt.html
[05:34] <Private_User> ok let me try the above quickly, thanks Kilos 
[05:35] <Kilos> yw
[05:36] <Private_User> does Maaz make milo or hot chocolate as well?
[05:36] <Private_User> :D
[05:36] <Kilos> lol no just coffee
[05:36] <Kilos> and half tea
[05:36] <Kilos> Maaz, tea please
[05:36] <Maaz> As soon as the kettle boils Kilos I will pour boiling water into your cup if you have the tea bag in already
[05:38] <Private_User> :( Kilos, it did not resolve the issue still rebooting
[05:39] <Kilos> i have that quiet splash removed evrything between the " "
[05:39] <Kilos> and one more thing , lemme find it
[05:42] <Private_User> you kinow to be honest most people would be frustrated having issues, for me I am actually a little glad cause each time I google I learn something new I can do with Ubuntu
[05:42] <Private_User> :)
[05:43] <Kilos> yeah but i had to ask here because i hate google
[05:43] <Private_User> lol
[05:43] <Kilos> everyone says google is your friend, but not mine
[05:43] <Kilos> sec while i look for that boot splash thingie
[05:43] <Private_User> why not? so which search engine do you use?
[05:43] <Private_User> ok cool thanks
[05:44] <Kilos> google but i hate getting 500 pages to search through
[05:46] <Private_User> well in my case and many others I know Google is what makes them an "expert" at their job LOL
[05:46] <Kilos> sudo nano /etc/default/grub
[05:46] <Kilos>  remove the "quiet splash"
[05:46] <Kilos> sudo update-grub2
[05:46] <Kilos> i have an extra bit somewhere
[05:47] <Kilos> you delete quiet splash there but leave the ""
[05:48] <Private_User> what about acpi=force?
[05:49] <Kilos> http://askubuntu.com/questions/129738/can-i-disable-the-ubuntu-splashscreen
[05:49] <Kilos> i have it saved somewhere but forgot where
[05:50] <Kilos> do you know how to use nano?
[05:50] <Kilos> i think that sudo update-grub2 should be sudo update-grub
[05:50] <Kilos> hi bd
[05:50] <Kilos> ai!
[05:51] <Kilos> bduk1, 
[05:56] <Kilos> whew where did i hide it?sigh
[05:57] <Kilos> im sure there was something to uncomment as well
[05:57] <Kilos> Private_User, can you use nano?
[05:57] <Private_User> oops now it seems worse, not the screen goes off but the machine is still running
[05:57] <Private_User> *now
[05:58] <Kilos> now try sudo shutdown -h now
[05:58] <Private_User> ok that was just for -H
[05:58] <Kilos> small h
[05:58] <Private_User> -P now reboots again
[05:59] <Private_User> ah ok sorry let me try that
[05:59] <Kilos> you reinstalled upstart?
[05:59] <Private_User> ok stil the same it reboots
[05:59] <Kilos> i see one place they say nvidia drivers are interfering
[06:00] <Private_User> yep when you mentioned it earlier
[06:00] <Kilos> do you have nvidia installed?
[06:00] <Private_User> let me check
[06:01] <Kilos> is it a lappy or desktop?
[06:02] <Private_User> yep nvidia-common is ticked under Synaptic Package Manager
[06:02] <Private_User> desktop
[06:03] <Kilos> do you need nvidia?
[06:03] <Kilos> try sudo aptitude install nvidia-current
[06:04] <Kilos> and see if it sees errors anywhere
[06:04] <Private_User> but I think that solved my screen resolution
[06:04] <Private_User> I now have 1024x768
[06:04] <Kilos> ya it does
[06:04] <Private_User> did not have that option before
[06:04] <Kilos> mine is even bigger
[06:04] <Kilos> dunno how to find it
[06:05] <Kilos> oh in settings you can choose it where it shows  1024x768
[06:05] <bduk1> Morning everyone
[06:07] <Kilos> yo bduk1 mazal siek al weer?
[06:08] <bduk1> Nee net bietjie besig op ons ander site. Sal seker nou nou terug wees
[06:08] <Kilos> a
[06:20] <Kilos> Private_User, when did this start happening?
[06:20] <Private_User> yesterday
[06:21] <Kilos> after an upgrade?
[06:21] <Private_User> man I hate these CRT monitors, thats what I am using for the desktop. you have to adjust the display manually on the actually screen
[06:22] <Private_User> well I think it was after an update but I cannot remember doing an update the day before yesterday
[06:22] <Private_User> I performed one on Sunday
[06:22] <Private_User> and monday it shutdown fine
[06:22] <Private_User> even Tuesday
[06:22] <Kilos> eish
[06:22] <Private_User> so I cannot be 100% sure what may have changed
[06:23] <Kilos> i wish the clever peeps would jump in here
[06:23] <Private_User> lol, thought you were one of them
[06:23] <Kilos> nope im a noob because i forget what they teach me
[06:24] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy 
[06:24] <Kilos> im supposed to be the greater bot here
[06:24] <ThatGraemeGuy> lol
[06:24] <ThatGraemeGuy> morning :)
[06:25] <Private_User> lol
[06:25] <Kilos> Private_User, whats happening?
[06:26] <Private_User> still the same Shudown option just reboots the machine
[06:26] <Kilos> oh and do you have a nvidia graphics card in there
[06:27] <Kilos> type in the dash additional
[06:27] <Kilos> maybe specific drivers will help
[06:28] <Kilos> some guys can find errors if you run tail /var/lod/syslog but i dont understand it
[06:29] <Kilos> ai!
[06:29] <Kilos> tail /var/log/syslog
[06:34] <Kilos> Private_User, how did you start the upgrade?
[06:34] <Private_User> I went to system tools update manager
[06:34] <Private_User> then clicked check
[06:34] <Private_User> then Install updates
[06:35] <Kilos> try running sudo apt-get update
[06:35] <Kilos> then
[06:35] <Kilos> sudo aptitude upgrade
[06:35] <Kilos> aptitude should tell you if something is not lekker
[06:36] <Private_User> ok its running lets see what happens
[06:37] <Kilos> i had this prob when 12.04 just came out but who knows how i cured it
[06:37] <Private_User> ok cool it completed does not seem like any errors are there
[06:37] <Private_User> it says 0 needed to be upgraded or installed
[06:37] <Kilos> and what does additional in dash show you?
[06:38] <Kilos> this is very upsetting, 12.04 is supposed to just work
[06:39] <Private_User> huh?
[06:39] <Kilos> you know dash that top icon
[06:39] <Kilos> type in additional
[06:39] <Kilos> it should show additional drivers available
[06:40] <Kilos> like an auto lookup whats needed in the pc
[06:42] <Private_User> how do I run that?
[06:43] <Kilos> do you know the dash
[06:43] <Kilos> that top button on the launcher on the left
[06:45] <Private_User> ok dude please remeber if you a noobie I am what ever is below a noobie LOL
[06:45] <Private_User> I think you have lost me now
[06:45] <Kilos> lol
[06:45] <Kilos> you on unity hey?
[06:46] <Kilos> with the lancher panel on the left
[06:46] <Kilos> launcher
[06:46] <Kilos> the very top button/icon thingie is called the dash
[06:48] <Private_User> I am using Lubuntu?
[06:50] <Kilos> oh my goodness
[06:50] <Kilos> i forgot sorry
[06:51] <Kilos> lemme see what google says
[06:53] <Kilos> try sudo poweroff
[06:54] <Kilos> ThatGraemeGuy, will tail /var/log/syslog show why pc reboots instead of shutting down
[06:55] <Private_User> nope poweroff does the same reboots
[06:57] <Kilos> ok lets look here
[06:57] <Kilos> Preferences > Additional Drivers.
[06:57] <Kilos> you have preferences hey?
[07:05] <Private_User> I am there now
[07:05] <Private_User> hang on its still busy searching
[07:05] <Kilos> cool
[07:05] <Kilos> i go let sheep out quick
[07:06] <Private_User> ok it states No proprietary drivers are in use on this system
[07:08] <Kilos> and no options of whats needed?
[07:09] <Kilos> grrr
[07:09] <Private_User> nope its blank
[07:09] <Kilos> oh you using onboard graphics?
[07:09] <Kilos> no graphics card in there?
[07:09] <Kilos> hmm...
[07:10] <Private_User> nope no graphics card
[07:10] <Kilos> ok then we gotta find where that error is coming from
[07:11] <Kilos> inetpro, help man
[07:12] <Kilos> oh Private_User i found the boot splash stuff
[07:12] <Private_User> great
[07:12] <Kilos> on other pc
[07:12] <Kilos> sigh
[07:13] <Kilos> sudo nano /etc/default/grub
[07:13] <Kilos> delete  quiet splash in
[07:13] <Kilos> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
[07:13] <Kilos> then uncomment
[07:13] <Kilos> GRUB_TERMINAL=console
[07:14] <Kilos> uncomment means delete the #
[07:14] <Kilos> and do sudo update-grub
[07:21] <Private_User> :( still no cigar
[07:21] <Kilos> wb ThatGraemeGuy peer got you
[07:21] <Private_User> rebooting again
[07:21] <Kilos> ok lets go ask lubuntu Private_User 
[07:21] <Kilos> type in here /j #lubuntu
[07:25] <Kilos> now we wait
[07:25] <Private_User> you know Kilos I did ask them earlier but I think there was nobody around then a guy did try but he left asking another to assist but not sure what happen to him
[07:25] <Kilos> lots of other channels take ages to help
[07:26] <Kilos> this is the friendliest most helpful channel on irc
[07:27] <Private_User> lol , I guess we will have to wait I will continue to google and I now understand what you were complaining about cause many of them are repeat solution from different sites and none of them working for me
[07:27] <Kilos> you can join my channel too Private_User then we wont fill pages here
[07:27] <Kilos> ##kilos
[07:28] <Kilos> morning superfly 
[07:29] <superfly> morning Kilos
[07:58] <inetpro> good mornings
[07:58] <inetpro> Private_User: what did you break?
[07:58] <Kilos> hi inetpro lubuntu 12.04 dont shutdown keeps rebooting
[07:59] <Kilos> tried lotsa stuffs
[07:59] <inetpro> is it not a hardware problem?
[07:59] <Kilos> sudo shutdown -h now reboots as well
[07:59] <Kilos> we asking you man 
[07:59] <Kilos> if we knew we wouldnt ask
[08:00] <Private_User> lol inetpro, yeah Kilos and I have been trying many options to try and resolve
[08:00] <Kilos> we carrying on on my channel to save you scroll backs 
[08:00] <inetpro> doesn't sound like a software problem to me
[08:01] <inetpro> so anything you install or re-install won't help 
[08:01] <Private_User> nope
[08:01] <inetpro> but obviously you need to verify what I say
[08:01] <inetpro> boot from life CD
[08:02] <Private_User> ok
[08:02] <inetpro> or usb
[08:03]  * Kilos looks on to see the master at work
[08:03] <inetpro> uh
[08:03] <Private_User> booted from USB
[08:04] <inetpro> and what happens when you shutdown now?
[08:04] <inetpro> probably still going to just reboot
[08:05] <Private_User> ok let me check though I needed to do something else so I was still on the menu LOL another ID-10-T issue
[08:05] <Private_User> LOL
[08:05] <Private_User> ok waiting for it to boot from USB
[08:08] <Kilos> you think its hardware inetpro ?
[08:08] <Kilos> sjoe
[08:08] <inetpro> Kilos: yep
[08:09] <Kilos> but it worked till yesterday
[08:10] <inetpro> the shutdown command is very simple, not much that can go wrong with that
[08:10] <Kilos> ah i see the reasoning
[08:10] <Private_User> yep inetpro does the same
[08:11] <inetpro> and it's most likely exactly the same shutdown code/executable for every linux system out there
[08:11] <inetpro> you see
[08:11] <Private_User> but why would it suddenly stop working when it worked previously
[08:11]  * Kilos krap kop
[08:11] <Kilos> hi SmilyBorg wb
[08:11] <SmilyBorg> Hey there
[08:12] <inetpro> try this, as much as it sounds weird... disconnect your screen as it shuts down
[08:12] <Private_User> ok let me try
[08:13] <inetpro> do you have any other special peripherals connected to the PC?
[08:14] <inetpro> SmilyBorg: hello and wb
[08:15] <SmilyBorg> Thanks guys. Been a bit bored and lonely so figured IRC would be a good place to hang out while I have time on my hands
[08:16] <Private_User> nope that did not work inetpro 
[08:16] <Kilos> sorry to hear about the job issue SmilyBorg 
[08:16] <inetpro> Private_User: hmm... 
[08:16] <SmilyBorg> yeah, being retrenched sucks
[08:17] <Private_User> ok that just reminded me I plugged in a apple iPod to recharge on that machine could that have changed any settings?
[08:17] <Private_User> but that has been unplugged
[08:17] <SmilyBorg> oh well, I have a 3rd round interview at a place on Friday. hopefully that will be fruitfull
[08:17] <inetpro> Private_User: I doubt it's any settings
[08:18] <Private_User> ok
[08:18] <inetpro> but if it is settings then it would be in the BIOS
[08:18] <Private_User> because it did work previously
[08:18] <Private_User> ok let me have a look at the BIOS settings
[08:19] <Kilos> good luck SmilyBorg 
[08:19] <Kilos> hmm.. power and battery out for 10 mins inetpro ?
[08:21] <SmilyBorg> thanks Kilos
[08:21] <Kilos> any bios can be corrupt if there was win on there before
[08:22] <inetpro> SmilyBorg: with Kilos in here you'll never be lonely :-)
[08:22] <Kilos> cheeky
[08:24] <SmilyBorg> :-)
[08:24] <inetpro> SmilyBorg: more serious, I hope you find something soon... just keep trying
[08:26] <Private_User> ok reset BIOS to default settings no difference
[08:26] <inetpro> Private_User: what happens when you press the power button for a few seconds, does it shutdown?
[08:26] <Private_User> yep it does
[08:26] <SmilyBorg> thanks inetpro. I'm keeping a look out but not much happening in Durban. gonna have to start applying for things in JHbn and CPT, though I'm not particularly keen to move
[08:28] <Private_User> SmilyBorg, you should maybe try some freelancing while you wait that could help, also PNET, CareerJunction, Jobmail, etc you can upload you CV there and apply online and I recently found that LinkedIn helps as well you just need to update you profile
[08:28] <Kilos> Private_User, what bios you got?
[08:28] <Kilos> award hopefully
[08:29] <Private_User> Kilos, that is correct
[08:29] <Vince-0> Sup SmilyBorg!
[08:30] <SmilyBorg> Private_User: Yeah, gonna look at the freelancing. already had a few hits off of PNET
[08:30] <SmilyBorg> Hey Vince-0
[08:30] <inetpro> Kilos: I don't think it's the bios, must be hardware
[08:30] <Vince-0> Coffee tonight? There's something going on at the Factory
[08:30] <Kilos> whew
[08:30] <inetpro> SmilyBorg: maybe you have ideas for SmilyBorg
[08:30] <inetpro> oops for Private_User
[08:30] <Kilos> lol
[08:31] <SmilyBorg> Vince-0: maybe for a short while. Need to help Andrea pack for a trip to JHB
[08:31] <Private_User> what I don't understand is, it was working then yesterday I noticed it was not and I cannot be 100% sure of what changed
[08:31] <SmilyBorg> inetpro: maybe, what's wrong?
[08:32] <inetpro> Private_User: tell SmilyBorg
[08:32]  * inetpro has some work to be done
[08:32] <Private_User> when ever I try to shut down in Lubuntu it reboots the machine
[08:32] <Vince-0> SmilyBorg, I'm checkin the event now. May be a yawn
[08:32] <Private_User> tried both on the terminal and using the GUI
[08:33] <SmilyBorg> Private_User: so the system reboots rather than turning off?
[08:34] <Private_User> SmilyBorg, btw LinkedIn, this one friend of mine got an offer for a job in Australia that is how I know it works as well and my friend did not even apply they recruited
[08:34] <Private_User> SmilyBorg, that is correct
[08:34] <SmilyBorg> Private_User: interesting, I've update my details there so will see what happens.
[08:35] <SmilyBorg> Private_User: that is an odd one. never come across that happening before
[08:36] <SmilyBorg> brb
[08:45] <Private_User> yeah, is there any log file where I can check what may have changed on the system including any hardware changes?
[08:45] <inetpro> Private_User: could even be dust, I suggest opening the inside and re-seating components
[08:45] <Vince-0> SmilyBorg, http://www.pechakucha.org/cities/durban
[08:45] <Private_User> inetpro, interesting I think I will try that as well
[08:45] <Kilos> and blow the dust out if you can
[08:45] <Kilos> garage airline
[08:45] <Private_User> SmilyBorg: another thing I have learnt cause I was there where you are is that it can sometimes take up to 6 months before you can find something another option is to just hand you CV over to recruitment agencies
[08:45] <Private_User> sometimes more
[08:45] <Private_User> ok let me try cleaning the inside of the machine
[08:45] <Kilos> Private_User, remove the battery as well
[08:47] <Vince-0> jeeps this connection drops 
[08:50] <Kilos> ohi deegee__ long time no see with this nick
[08:57] <Kilos> wb drussell 
[08:59] <Private_User> hooray!!!
[08:59] <Private_User> success
[08:59] <Kilos> rofl fixed?
[08:59] <Kilos> \what a business
[08:59] <Private_User> removing the CMOS battery and re-inserting resolved the issue
[08:59] <Private_User> :D
[09:00] <Kilos> Maaz, inetpro ++
[09:00] <Kilos> who woulda thought it was hardware but the pro
[09:00] <inetpro> nee man Kilos, dit was jy wat dit genoem het
[09:00] <Kilos> nee man
[09:01] <Kilos> i havent had to battery out for a long time
[09:01] <inetpro> ek meen die battery storie
[09:01] <Private_User> but I also did remove some of the dust or what ever I could remove
[09:01] <Private_User> :)
[09:01] <inetpro> Private_User: well done!
[09:01] <Kilos> that was just an addon to your cleaning and reseating advice
[09:02] <Private_User> yep shutdown now works perfectly via terminal and GUI options
[09:02] <Kilos> Private_User, best way is with airline at garages with an old valve in the end of the wheel pumping pipe
[09:02] <nlsthzn> yeah the net split is over... alo uncle Kilos and all :)
[09:02] <Private_User> thanks inetpro and Kilos  for all the help much appreciated
[09:03] <Kilos> thats why we are here Private_User 
[09:03] <inetpro> Private_User: you're welcome
[09:03] <Kilos> sorry it took so long
[09:03] <Kilos> and as i said the most helpful irc channel
[09:03] <Kilos> we a good team here
[09:03] <Private_User> now I wondering what in the BIOS changed and how? (*scratches head*)
[09:04] <Kilos> i used to have it often with old pc
[09:04] <Kilos> many battery outs
[09:04] <Kilos> what mobo is it?
[09:05] <Kilos> hi psyatw 
[09:05] <Kilos> gigabyte has lekker bios upgrade from xp
[09:05] <psyatw> hi Kilos
[09:06] <Kilos> at least it wasnt ubuntu hey Private_User 
[09:06] <Kilos> makes me happy
[09:06] <Private_User> yep same here
[09:07] <SmilyBorg> back
[09:08] <Private_User> I looked into the setting of the BIOS again I cannot see anything very different and I even changed some setting back to what I saw it was before and it still shuts down
[09:08] <Private_User> so it could just be another setting that I cannot see
[09:09] <Kilos> ya somehow at times bios gets a bit corrupt and only battery out helps. the default settings keeps the bug there
[09:09] <Kilos> you got dual core cpu?
[09:10] <Kilos> then you can enable the threading thing for more speed
[09:10] <Private_User> not sure hey
[09:10] <Kilos> hmm...
[09:10] <Kilos> ok hang i got commands somewhere to check
[09:11] <Private_User> thanks
[09:14] <Kilos> cat /proc/cpuinfo
[09:14] <Private_User> thanks
[09:15] <Kilos> yw
[09:15] <Kilos> To count processor (including cores), enter:
[09:15] <Kilos> grep -c processor /proc/cpuinfo
[09:16] <Kilos> once google was quicker than hunting for where i saved the info
[09:16] <Private_User> CPU Cores: 1
[09:17] <Kilos> ok then no threading needed
[09:18] <Private_User> cool
[09:18] <Private_User> so we know its a GenuineIntel, Pentium 4 CPU 3.00GHz
[09:20] <Kilos> thats a good cpu that , i have it in other pc
[09:21] <Kilos> will fly with 2g ram
[09:21] <Private_User> yeah good CPU only issue I have is my RAM
[09:21] <Private_User> only 512MB
[09:22] <Private_User> and it has only 2 slots both with 256 each
[09:22] <Kilos> ddr ram?
[09:22] <Kilos> not ddr1 or 2
[09:23] <Kilos> thats scarce as rocking horse droppings
[09:25] <Kilos> hi gwood 
[09:30] <Private_User> @ Kilos, LOL,  its DDR I think
[09:30] <Kilos> eina i hunted everywhere
[09:30] <Kilos> got 2 ig cards but they clash so got one in each pc
[09:31] <Kilos> 1g
[09:32] <Kilos> and when you find they want more for secondhand cards than 2g ddr3
[09:32] <Kilos> swines
[09:34] <Private_User> yeah I guess they know that it is rare
[10:23] <Squirm> afternoon
[10:46] <Kilos> hi Squirm 
[10:48] <adeebnqo> I have a memory card protected by a password, anyone know  how to reset it using ubuntu?
[10:49] <Kilos> hi adeebnqo 
[10:49] <Kilos> what memory card?
[10:50] <adeebnqo> hello Kilos, its a micro sd card. I have an adapter so I can connect it directly to my pc --- I need way to mount it or smthng and reset the password
[10:50] <Kilos> whew
[10:51] <Kilos> i didnt know they put passwords om memory cards
[10:51] <Kilos> does you system see it?
[10:51] <Kilos> and the adapter is sd to what
[10:52] <adeebnqo> Nope. However, when I insert it on a phone--it wants a password
[10:52] <Kilos> what adapter
[10:52] <Kilos> to usb?
[10:53] <adeebnqo> the one that looks like a huge sd card but has a micro sd card slot
[10:57]  * Kilos has no idea what a sd card looks like huge or micro
[12:31] <DarkSurferZA> hi guys
[12:31] <DarkSurferZA> epic damage last night
[12:31] <Kilos> sjoe did you have to chop up the tree?
[12:31] <DarkSurferZA> tree dead
[12:32] <DarkSurferZA> dstv dead
[12:32] <Kilos> house the house
[12:32] <DarkSurferZA> xbox, just the power brick
[12:32] <Kilos> how is the house
[12:32] <DarkSurferZA> 2 tv's dead
[12:32] <Kilos> thats bad news hey
[12:33] <DarkSurferZA> lightning hit the tree, split it in half, and hit the ground next to the tree
[12:33] <Kilos> what do insurance peeps say
[12:33] <charl> good afternoon
[12:33] <DarkSurferZA> the ground sploded spraying mud on my walls, and rupturing a water pip from the municipal mains
[12:33] <charl> Maaz: coffee on
[12:33]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[12:33] <charl> hi DarkSurferZA 
[12:33] <charl> hi Kilos 
[12:33] <Kilos> hi charl 
[12:34] <DarkSurferZA> insurance will pay (with hefty excess)
[12:34] <Kilos> oh the tree didnt damage the roof?
[12:34] <Kilos> ai1 them and their excesses
[12:34] <DarkSurferZA> but could take up to 2 weeks to sort out the claim for electronics
[12:34] <DarkSurferZA> yo charl 
[12:34] <Kilos> why 
[12:34] <DarkSurferZA> roof fine
[12:35] <DarkSurferZA> assessor will come out in 2 days
[12:35] <DarkSurferZA> 4 days to assess root cause of damage to electronics
[12:35] <DarkSurferZA> insurance process claim and valuate goods
[12:35] <DarkSurferZA> FUUUUUuu!!!!!!!
[12:35] <Kilos> most likely no earth spike
[12:36] <DarkSurferZA> anyway, hope these guys sort out plumbing today still
[12:36] <Kilos> yeah
[12:36] <charl> sounds terrible DarkSurferZA 
[12:36] <DarkSurferZA> how u guys doing?
[12:36] <charl> http://i.imgur.com/cPJEgDt.jpg
[12:37] <charl> much better than you, apparently :(
[12:37] <charl> sorry to hear about your troubles
[12:37] <DarkSurferZA> meh, such is life man. have days, and then have DAYS
[12:37] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl!
[12:37] <charl> Maaz: thanks
[12:37] <Maaz> charl: Okay :-)
[12:38] <Kilos> we fine. only got half a mil of rain though
[12:38] <DarkSurferZA> but thanks for the concern. dunno where i am gonna play xbox for a while, but again, life right?
[12:38] <Kilos> you play xbox lots?
[12:38] <charl> eating japanese mochi now
[12:38] <charl> with red bean paste inside
[12:38] <DarkSurferZA> of all the problems i could have, these are good ones.
[12:39] <DarkSurferZA> Kilos: love xbox man. playing tons of GTA V
[12:39] <Kilos> eeek you have worse ones?
[12:39] <DarkSurferZA> was playing tons of GTA V
[12:39] <Trixar_za> GTA isn't so bad
[12:39] <Kilos> ive never seen one
[12:39] <DarkSurferZA> no, dont have worse problems, just think they could be worse. 
[12:40] <Trixar_za> Just gets a bad rep - kind of like Doom and funny enough, Night Trap
[12:40] <DarkSurferZA> ie, no internet.
[12:40] <Trixar_za> Night Trap is why games have a rating and age restrictions
[12:40] <DarkSurferZA> or no electricity.
[12:40] <charl> internet goes down, life stops
[12:40] <DarkSurferZA> scary  right?
[12:40] <charl> "why live" and jump off a building
[12:40] <Trixar_za> The funny part is that it doesn't feature anything of what it was accused
[12:40] <charl> " i can't take it anymore "
[12:41] <Trixar_za> None of the politicians or Media people actually played it to see
[12:41] <DarkSurferZA> Trixar_za: agree, but it is just the themes i guess
[12:41] <Trixar_za> Yeah, but you get worse things in real life
[12:41] <Trixar_za> Hell, in SA we tend to LIVE GTA
[12:41] <Trixar_za> :P
[12:42] <DarkSurferZA> if ur kids are crap at life, blame music, games, internet, porn, government, schools, and just about everyone else
[12:42] <Trixar_za> Except the parents, hey? :P
[12:42] <charl> whhaaha, live gta
[12:42] <Trixar_za> I heard the funniest warning yesterday
[12:42] <Trixar_za> It was for an adult podcast on CCMixter
[12:43] <DarkSurferZA> well, i havent seen anyone fly a crop duster in to the back of a bomber before
[12:43] <DarkSurferZA> Trixar_za: yeah, what was it?
[12:43] <Trixar_za> "This Podcast is indented for persons 18 years and older. If that is not you, then turn this off immediately, go find your parents and tell them they're doing a bad job parenting you."
[12:44] <Trixar_za> Intended*
[12:44] <charl> lol
[12:44] <Kilos> sjoe
[12:44] <DarkSurferZA> lol
[12:44] <DarkSurferZA> so much lol
[12:44] <DarkSurferZA> but the truth though.
[12:45] <charl> you can't blame everything on the parents either though
[12:45] <Trixar_za> It's even funnier if you hear how she says it
[12:45] <Kilos> nope not everything
[12:45] <Kilos> when kids get to school then parents know nothing and teach knows all
[12:46] <DarkSurferZA> what? if they can blame everyone else, then everyone else should be able to blame them.
[12:46] <charl> lol
[12:46] <DarkSurferZA> Just kidding,
[12:46] <Trixar_za> In what universe? Generally they disregard the teachers
[12:46] <charl> DarkSurferZA: i was meaning to speak to you about something... you do pen testing right?
[12:46] <Kilos> oh ya times have changed some hey
[12:47] <DarkSurferZA> charl:  maybe..... it depends
[12:47] <charl> DarkSurferZA: i am busy designing a protocol for instant messaging / voip / file sharing with encryption as a base
[12:47] <DarkSurferZA> Ok, sounds cool
[12:48] <charl> DarkSurferZA: i use xmpp right now but the main two problems are that a) there must be some data retention on the server (e.g. user accounts) and there is no built-in redundancy
[12:48] <charl> the second should be b) of course :)
[12:48] <charl> what i have so far is: http://charl.eu/e2ee/
[12:48] <DarkSurferZA> Lemme have a look
[12:48] <charl> if you happen to have some time to look it over and give me your thoughts, please do
[12:48] <charl> thanks !
[12:49] <Trixar_za> http://ccmixter.org/files/RoseCaraway/36017
[12:49] <Trixar_za> That's the one with the warning
[12:54] <DarkSurferZA> charl: only had a brief look, havent had time to process yet, but itsounds like an IM protocol built on tor and perspectives
[12:54] <charl> no definitely nothing to do with tor
[12:55] <charl> i want to stay the heck away from it
[12:55] <DarkSurferZA> Yeah, i mean from a framework perspective.
[12:55] <DarkSurferZA> Also have you seen the perspectives project?
[12:55] <charl> it takes end-to-end encryption seriously though
[12:55] <charl> can't say i have, although it does sound vaguely familiar
[12:56] <charl> this one? http://perspectives-project.org/
[12:57] <DarkSurferZA> Couple of issuesmay arise with identity theft, and NSA snooping but it could work given some tinkering
[12:58] <DarkSurferZA> Also doesnt allow for users to recover their identities because they own their identities. That is a problem for the typical end user
[12:58] <DarkSurferZA> Let me apply my brain here properly and we can chat in a different forum
[12:58] <DarkSurferZA> Sure other people here dont want to be bored by my ramblings.
[12:58] <charl> identity theft? sorry i don't get it
[12:59] <charl> and it's supposed to circumvent nsa snooping by keeping all the keys on the client only
[12:59] <Kilos> no man
[12:59] <charl> so even the server operators have the absolute minimum access to information
[12:59] <Kilos> we all wanna see how clever you are
[13:01] <DarkSurferZA> The problem with certificates, especially asmetric certs is that the public keysare 
[13:01] <DarkSurferZA> Crap
[13:01] <DarkSurferZA> Keys a 
[13:01] <DarkSurferZA> Urgh!!!  Gimme a sec. Keyboard fail
[13:01] <charl> np :)
[13:02] <DarkSurferZA> Try again
[13:03] <DarkSurferZA> Public keys crypt messages in a static manner, right? So if you crypt "hi" 7 times with the same pub key
[13:03] <DarkSurferZA> You get the same cipher text
[13:03] <DarkSurferZA> Right?
[13:04] <Kilos> charl, question
[13:04] <DarkSurferZA> If the public key, is derived from the private key, and you have the cipher text as well as plain text, it is about filling in the blanks to get the private key
[13:04] <DarkSurferZA> Right?
[13:04] <Kilos> cant you build otr into it
[13:04] <Kilos> so pcs encrypt to each other
[13:04] <DarkSurferZA> Kilos: tor is a bad idea, but charl has a workable idea in here.just needs tweaking
[13:05] <Kilos> oh is otr tor?
[13:05] <DarkSurferZA> Most end users dont like tor. Except if ur buying on the silk road that is
[13:05] <DarkSurferZA> Tor
[13:05] <DarkSurferZA> The onion router
[13:05] <Kilos> i dunno what that is
[13:05] <charl> yeah tor is slow and it's very often abused
[13:06] <Kilos> pidgin otr works well
[13:06] <Kilos> is that also tor?
[13:06] <charl> i was looking at having maximum two "servers" between the clients
[13:06] <charl> also so that you can transfer for example large files
[13:06] <charl> at a usable speed
[13:07] <DarkSurferZA> Anyway, charl, there are some cool ideas here man. I aint putting it down.
[13:07] <charl> Kilos: otr is another encryption technique, i didn't know about it at the time, but that is worth looking into
[13:07] <charl> Kilos: i drafted this spec based on openpgp instead but otr seems to have some advantages above openpgp
[13:08] <DarkSurferZA> But, if it were to work in a useable fashion, the client and the server would agree on a session key to be used in conjunction with the pgp keys
[13:08] <Kilos> the otr function used on xchat is a setup pain but pidgin is very simple
[13:08] <charl> the main advantage seems to be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_secrecy
[13:09] <charl> "In cryptography, forward secrecy (also known as perfect forward secrecy or PFS[1]) is a property of key-agreement protocols that ensures that a session key derived from a set of long-term keys will not be compromised if one of the long-term keys is compromised in the future."
[13:09] <charl> DarkSurferZA: yes the connections between the client and server and between servers are all tls
[13:09] <charl> DarkSurferZA: and then openpgp as an extra layer on top of tls for end-to-end encryption
[13:09] <DarkSurferZA> Also, the client would determin a circuit for sending messages, and the server could use a different one for their responses. 
[13:09] <DarkSurferZA> Circuit = servers hops routing etc
[13:10] <charl> DarkSurferZA: exactly!
[13:10] <charl> so even if you can intercept a particuar path then you don't get the full communication
[13:10] <charl> you only have part of it
[13:10] <charl> so you could for example alternate between servers in different parts of the world
[13:10] <charl> so even if the encryption can be broken that adds an extra layer of difficulty
[13:11] <charl> you could even split up a single message and route parts of it through different servers
[13:11] <DarkSurferZA> This requires each server to be able to route traffic on a session bassis, as well as for the client to open multiple circuits to a host
[13:11] <charl> if you want to go full paranoia mode
[13:11] <charl> yeah my idea is that the clients determine the route
[13:11] <charl> and the client can do that in an ad-hoc fashion
[13:11] <charl> the idea is that the server needs to know the absolute minimum
[13:12] <charl> trust the client, not the server
[13:12] <DarkSurferZA> The problem is that the redundancy componant has a fail aspect that the NSA would abuse to harvest messages
[13:12] <DarkSurferZA> I.e. if the NSA controls1 host in a circuit, they could see the whole message.
[13:12] <charl> if you *could* take certain servers down
[13:13] <charl> hmmm not sure i understand
[13:13] <charl> in a circuit yes but the idea would be to use different circuits
[13:13] <DarkSurferZA> You dont need to take them down. Think water through some channels. 
[13:13] <DarkSurferZA> If i want more water to go through 1 channel, i just make the other channel appear more full. Get it?
[13:14] <charl> yeah... but explain "more full"
[13:14] <Kilos> tap half closed
[13:15] <DarkSurferZA> Send it lots of work, so your client talks to other hosts
[13:15] <DarkSurferZA> Kilos: exactly
[13:15] <Kilos> decreasing flow in one pipe increases flow in other pipe
[13:15] <charl> that is possible yesah
[13:15] <charl> *yeah
[13:15] <charl> that could indeed be used as one avenue of attack
[13:15] <charl> however, the clients could also be "smart" about it
[13:15] <charl> for example, if sending messages through certain servers persistently fails, warn the user for example
[13:16] <charl> i don't think this is an issue you would very easily be able to work around actually, tough one
[13:16] <DarkSurferZA> No, because it wouldnt fail
[13:16] <DarkSurferZA> It would just process (successfully) fewer messages
[13:16] <DarkSurferZA> And the wider channel gets more of your messages
[13:16] <charl> but how would the client know the server is too "full" if no messages fail
[13:17] <charl> unless the server tells the client "sorry i'm being overloaded right now"
[13:17] <DarkSurferZA> The recipient acknowledges the message id right?
[13:17] <charl> but in that case the client could once again warn the user "be careful"
[13:17] <charl> yeah correct
[13:17] <charl> after it's been decrypted as part of the message
[13:17] <DarkSurferZA> So if i send 100 messages, and the first 10 go out
[13:18] <DarkSurferZA> 5 through channel 1, and 5 through channel 2
[13:18] <DarkSurferZA> 5 responses arive from channel 1, and so far, 0 from channel 2
[13:18] <DarkSurferZA> Client sends another 5 to channel 1, still waiting for responses from channel 2
[13:19] <DarkSurferZA> 40 messages into channel 1 later, 5 responses are received from channel 2
[13:19] <charl> ah i see, so this is how you funnel
[13:19] <DarkSurferZA> 90% of traffic is forces through a potentially bad gateway
[13:19] <charl> yeah makes sense
[13:20] <charl> but in a case like this, the client once again needs to be intelligent
[13:20] <charl> to split messages up and where it can't be, warn the user
[13:20] <charl> add more servers to create more paths
[13:20] <charl> but this could also happen on the receiving end
[13:20] <DarkSurferZA> Again, it is complicated.
[13:20] <charl> so the client needs to know the exact path to the other client, and once again would need to be intelligent about it and warn the user
[13:20] <DarkSurferZA> Because using this method, the NSA would "blacklist" all good servers
[13:21] <charl> "something's up be careful the network is under attack"
[13:21] <charl> yeah it's possible, you have a very good point, that definitely needs to be addressed
[13:22] <charl> you are like the first person that i speak to about this that actually has some good feedback, this is what i'm looking for, thanks :)
[13:22] <DarkSurferZA> Also, the client should never know the path of the message, as that requires a known circuit, somewhere in a readable message body
[13:22] <DarkSurferZA> Np
[13:22] <DarkSurferZA> I.e. meta data has more use to me on a large scale than data
[13:23] <DarkSurferZA> So if i know who talks to who the most, and i can fingerprint messages by the circuit they travel on, then i can id users
[13:23] <charl> i was thinking, the client selects a particular server it is connected to, and selects one of the servers the receiving end is connected to, and tells its server "here is the message, route it to this user on this server"
[13:23] <DarkSurferZA> The best defense i can come up with is 2 fold
[13:24] <DarkSurferZA> Ok, wait, let me hear more
[13:24] <charl> but that is in plaintext (well, not plaintext, it's over tls of course) and then sends the end-to-end encrypted part of the message after that
[13:24] <charl> so the most the servers could know is, this user is talking to that user
[13:25] <charl> absolutely nothing more
[13:25] <DarkSurferZA> So if a server can read the source, and destination, as well as the users desired next hop (to form a circuit), that must be clear text
[13:25] <DarkSurferZA> Right?
[13:25] <charl> the idea of course is that servers retain absolutely no data, but of course you can't force that down
[13:25] <charl> yes that first part yes
[13:25] <charl> it's almost like a packet with source and destination, but the data inside the packet is encrypted
[13:26] <charl> so the only data you could read if you are sitting on one of the servers is who is talking to who, but you don't know what they are saying (unless you can crack the crypto of course)
[13:26] <charl> and the end-to-end crypto is a transaction that is made between two clients, you could have the possiblity for multiple types of crypto, layered within each other
[13:26] <charl> you could also negotiate session keys etc
[13:27] <DarkSurferZA> Right. So the data inside is the message, but the metadata outside (user 1, talking to user 2, wants traffic to hop from me to server x to end user)  is in a publicly readable format
[13:27] <DarkSurferZA> Otherwise the serverr couldnt route the message, right
[13:27] <charl> yes, well not publicly readable, but readable by both servers yes
[13:27] <charl> exactly
[13:28] <charl> that is unfortunately necessary at this point, i haven't managed to figure out anything better
[13:28] <DarkSurferZA> Cool,so thats what i meant. The meta data, is of more value on a large scale, than the data.
[13:28] <DarkSurferZA> Data forms part of a targeted attack,meta data falls at the drag net
[13:29] <charl> yes, unfortunately
[13:29] <charl> the idea is however that each client has a list of trusted servers
[13:29] <DarkSurferZA> So, if i were looking for a terrorist for example (#noNSA)
[13:29] <DarkSurferZA> And i busted 1 user
[13:29] <charl> by trusted i mean only trust any server as far as absolutely necessary, no more
[13:30] <charl> but the server also, by necessity again, has to know the client's ip address for example, no way around it
[13:30] <DarkSurferZA> And my metadata said he spoke to 17 people.
[13:30] <DarkSurferZA> 17 people are suspects
[13:31] <DarkSurferZA> I can fingerprint those people based on the way they speak, even if they change ip addresses
[13:32] <DarkSurferZA> I can then read how much they speak to each other
[13:32] <DarkSurferZA> Then build a profile
[13:32] <DarkSurferZA> Then follow ip addresses as their fingerprints come online.
[13:32] <DarkSurferZA> Then have target attacks launched against each host
[13:33] <DarkSurferZA> For example, i have disclosed a 0 day to MSFT last week which allows me to access any network / service using NTLM
[13:34] <DarkSurferZA> Users always fail targeted attacks, so the idea is for a client to be anonymous, private, and untraceable.
[13:35] <DarkSurferZA> If for whatever reason they are compromised, they client must be amneasiac
[13:35] <DarkSurferZA> The only way this is possible is to design the solution from the ground up assumng that each server is compromised
[13:36] <DarkSurferZA> I have some brain farts at the moment on how to mitigate most of what we mentioned, but i need to organise them into meaningful thoughts
[13:38] <DarkSurferZA> I.e. broadcast your message with a random number of hops in the circuit (1-5), and use a raid 5 type arrangement where each message is broadcast to a random % of your server list
[13:38] <DarkSurferZA> But never a meaningfull % to any 1 host
[13:39] <DarkSurferZA> Also would need a notary principal, because signatures can be forged
[13:40] <DarkSurferZA> charl: i lose you man?
[13:42] <Kilos> he just changing gears
[13:46] <charl> hi sorry
[13:46] <charl> got interrupted
[13:48] <charl> DarkSurferZA: sounds really interesting
[13:48] <charl> i'm not trying to create another tor though, i'm trying to keep this relatively simple
[13:48] <charl> but you have some very interesting ideas here above
[13:58] <charl> DarkSurferZA: sorry i gotta get some work done on this end, shall we go off and do some more thinking, let it sink in and catch up in a couple of days? i really like your thinking
[14:04] <Xethron> Afternoon everyone
[14:05] <Xethron> Maaz: coffee on
[14:05]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[14:05] <Xethron> Maaz: coffee please
[14:05] <Maaz> Xethron: Now now, we don't want anyone getting caffeine overdoses
[14:06] <Xethron> :(
[14:06] <Xethron> But I haven't had one yet
[14:06] <Xethron> Fine, I'll go make it myself
[14:08] <Kilos> hi Xethron 
[14:08] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee please
[14:08] <Maaz> Kilos: Alrighty
[14:08] <Kilos> Maaz, large
[14:08] <Maaz> In a beer mug just for you Kilos
[14:08] <superfly> DarkSurferZA: I'm trying to figure out the URL that a device is making a connection to over HTTPS - any ideas? (I'm playing around)
[14:09] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Xethron and Kilos!
[14:09] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[14:09] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[14:12] <Xethron> Maaz: ty
[14:12] <Maaz> You are welcome Xethron
[14:13] <Kilos> all good Xethron ?
[14:13] <Xethron> mostly yes
[14:13] <Xethron> Just busy :)
[14:13] <Kilos> good
[14:14]  * Kilos waits for next storm. saw a pic sis got from youtube of the lightening in sandton last night
[14:14] <Kilos> sjoe
[14:21] <DarkSurferZA> Yo superfly
[14:21] <DarkSurferZA> Soz man, missed that
[14:21] <superfly> hey DarkSurferZA
[14:21] <DarkSurferZA> What kind of device
[14:21] <superfly> no worries
[14:22] <superfly> an iPod
[14:22] <DarkSurferZA> Download the free version of burp proxy online, then setup your proxy settings on the ipod
[14:23] <DarkSurferZA> Make it point to your running version of burp proxy
[14:24] <DarkSurferZA> Otherwise, if you want to catch alltraffic from your ipod, use a combination of wireshark, and an arp poison on the network
[14:58] <Vince-0> !
[15:51] <kbmonkey> hello
[16:50] <Kilos> hello kbmonkey 
[16:56] <kbmonkey> hi. I go eat dinner - got black beans and brown rice. yum.
[16:56] <kbmonkey> and hear thunder again. ai!
[16:56] <Kilos> haha ok
[17:13] <Kilos> how is this for lightening  http://imageshack.com/i/2oqvdnj
[17:13] <Kilos> ask DarkSurfer he felt the after effects and is still feeling it
[17:58] <Private_User> thunder storm, gonna have to log off and shutdown cheers people
[17:58] <Private_User> later
[18:04] <kbmonkey> ja its hitting here now
[18:04] <kbmonkey> lots of lightning
[18:09] <Kilos> the heavens are angry with us
[18:32] <Kilos> hi nlsthzn wb
[18:32] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[18:32] <Kilos> more is nog n dag
[18:32] <nlsthzn> good night
[19:21] <inetpro> good evening
[19:30] <charl> hi inetpro 
[19:30] <charl> hi psychicist 
[19:31] <inetpro> hi charl
[19:33] <psychicist> hi charl 
[19:33] <psychicist> hi inetpro 
[19:33] <inetpro> hello psychicist
[19:52] <kbmonkey> evening. how goes alll?
[19:54] <kbmonkey> looking at the cone mua, it seems nice so far.
[20:03] <charl> hi kbmonkey 
[20:03] <kbmonkey> hello 0/