[00:29] <GridCube> knome, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GridCube/rationales/new_ram
[00:55] <brainwash> verification needed for bug 1206739
[03:43] <Unit193> Reminder: Next Xubuntu team meeting tomorrow, 1500UTC.
[03:58] <skellat> Unit193: I thought the wiki page was updated to 1600
[03:59] <Unit193> Ah, that.  Dang daylight savings.
[09:15] <knome> congrats pleia2 and elfy on your nomination to the CC!
[09:15] <elfy> ty knome :)
[10:08] <slickymaster> good morning all
[10:09] <elfy> o/
[10:10] <slickymaster> hi elfy. Good morning
[10:11] <elfy> hi - running off now for a while
[11:57] <knome> almost half of the finnish translation of the docs is now done
[11:57] <bluesabre> busy busy!
[11:58] <knome> hhe
[11:58] <bluesabre> I'm taking a personal day to catch back up, so I'll be attending the meeting today :)
[11:58] <knome> cool
[12:11] <elfy> hi bluesabre 
[12:18] <bluesabre> hey elfy
[12:20] <bluesabre> brb
[13:09] <bluesabre> back
[13:09] <bluesabre> my personal day is starting to turn into a sick day :(
[13:10] <GridCube> oh
[13:10] <GridCube> :(
[13:11]  * knome slaps bluesabre 
[13:11] <brainwash> bluesabre: every time I see your nick in the channel it instantly reminds me of "xubuntu-default-settings/b2_fixes" :)
[13:12] <brainwash> make it stop! :D
[13:13] <bluesabre> brainwash: :D
[13:14] <bluesabre> I'll ping micahg about it again
[13:15] <brainwash> I just don't understand, why it takes so long, there has to be reason :(
[13:18] <bluesabre> personal lives, makes a lot of us really busy
[13:18] <bluesabre> this past week I haven't wanted to look at a computer after leaving work
[13:19] <elfy> I'm lucky, but unfortunately for us I don't code, as I don't see a computer at work :)
[13:20] <brainwash> but in this case it's just a simple click on the approve button, or?
[13:20] <brainwash> I don't want to blame anyone, just want to understand why something like this can take so long
[13:21] <brainwash> so maybe I myself can help to speed up things
[13:21] <bluesabre> well, he has to approve it and merge it, but yeah, minimal effort required for that
[15:15] <knome> meeting in 45 mins.
[15:20] <knome> !team | MEETING TIME in 40 minutes!
[15:20] <elfy> yep
[15:20] <knome> look how smart i am, created a useful factoid
[15:21] <elfy> :)
[15:21] <knome> (just don't overuse it...)
[15:21] <elfy> and what a useful factoid that is 
[15:21] <elfy> nope - that would be super annoying
[15:22] <knome> that just works in -devel, so no annoying poking around in #x
[15:22]  * elfy has a quick look at release schedule to count how many times he'll use it between now and april
[15:23] <knome> !meeting
[15:23] <knome> !schedule
[15:23] <knome> though that existed already:)
[15:24] <knome> elfy, btw, i'm quite sure i won't be of much help with alpha 1
[15:24] <knome> (if we're participating anyway)
[15:26] <elfy> well I'd rather participate from the beginning - response get's better as cycle progresses as I nag more 
[15:26] <elfy> so if we leave it - then we'll be up the river
[15:26] <knome> if you're up the river in london, where exactly are you? westend?
[15:27] <knome> (that ain't too bad?)
[15:27] <knome> :P
[15:27] <elfy> :)
[15:28] <bluesabre> look at all the !factoids!
[15:28] <knome> yes!
[15:28] <GridCube> alright
[15:28] <elfy> could be a field in Gloucestershire knome 
[15:29] <knome> if you haven't looked at uds schedule for interesting sessions, now's a good time
[15:29] <knome> elfy, what's wrong with that?
[15:29] <knome> fields of gold
[15:29] <elfy> nothing at all if you come from Glos ... if you don't however ... 
[15:29] <knome> lol
[15:31]  * elfy blames knome for taking the conversation offtopic :p
[15:31] <knome> yep
[15:54] <knome> five minutes to meeting
[15:55] <knome> pleia2, wakey wakey :)
[15:55] <pleia2> mhmm
[15:55] <pleia2> I need to leave soon for name change things though
[15:55] <knome> bluesabre, your head any better?
[15:55] <knome> ochosi, you back home?
[15:55] <knome> oh that
[15:55] <ochosi> yup
[15:55] <knome> meh
[15:55] <knome> pleia2, how soon? 30mins?
[15:55] <bluesabre> I'm around for the meeting
[15:55] <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
[15:55] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Nov 14 15:55:56 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:55] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:56] <ochosi> pleia2: unless you have concerns, i'd publish the blog-article by the end of the meeting
[15:56] <knome> let's go through some of this bureaucracy now...
[15:56] <pleia2> like 15 :)
[15:56] <ochosi> pleia2: (knome and me went over it today)
[15:56] <knome> #topic Items carried on
[15:56] <knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting 
[15:56] <pleia2> ochosi: that's good, I just logged into browse real quick
[15:56] <knome> #action knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week 
[15:56] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
[15:56] <knome> WIP
[15:56] <knome> #action micahg to talk to barry about python2.7/3 situation 
[15:56] <meetingology> ACTION: micahg to talk to barry about python2.7/3 situation
[15:56] <knome> #nick micahg 
[15:56] <knome> #action micahg to upload whiskermenu to xfce PPAs 
[15:56] <meetingology> ACTION: micahg to upload whiskermenu to xfce PPAs
[15:57] <knome> ochosi announced the wallpaper project
[15:57] <knome> done
[15:57] <ochosi> indeed
[15:57] <knome> #subtopic Approve or decline specifications on the Roadmap 
[15:57] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
[15:57] <knome> some of the devel-related items have been approved last sun
[15:58] <knome> #action knome will create the blueprints today and contact assignees on filling in work items
[15:58] <meetingology> ACTION: knome will create the blueprints today and contact assignees on filling in work items
[15:58] <ochosi> nice
[15:58] <knome> #info development (read: new feature drop-in) items have been approved already
[15:58] <knome> i have an idea to save time
[15:59] <knome> let's vote on every item quickly first:
[15:59] <knome> +1 is approve, -1 is decline, +0 is "i want to discuss"
[15:59] <knome> if there is most "abstain" (+0) votes, we'll discuss
[15:59] <knome> sounds good for everybody?
[15:59] <elfy> good job I came back then 
[15:59] <GridCube> ok
[15:59] <bluesabre> sounds good
[15:59] <ochosi> +1
[15:59] <ochosi> :)
[15:59] <jjfrv8> yup
[15:59] <knome> elfy, well i wasn't going to start the votes before :00
[16:00] <knome> micahg, are you around?
[16:00] <elfy> but I'm +1 to doing that 
[16:00] <skellat> Good thing I was already logged in so that I caught the early start
[16:00] <knome> skellat, hello! :)
[16:00] <knome> skellat, heh, again, just did the bureaucracy
[16:01] <knome> #voters bluesabre elfy GridCube jjfrv8 knome micahg mr_pouit ochosi pleia2 skellat ubottu 
[16:01] <meetingology> Current voters: GridCube bluesabre elfy jjfrv8 knome micahg mr_pouit ochosi pleia2 skellat ubottu
[16:01] <skellat> #undo
[16:01] <knome> huh? :)
[16:01] <knome> oh, heh
[16:01] <knome> #undo
[16:01] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x17c9cd0>
[16:01] <knome> hmm no...
[16:01] <skellat> knome: We don't want ubottu voting
[16:02] <knome> #info development (read: new feature drop-in) items have been approved already
[16:02] <knome> #voters bluesabre elfy GridCube jjfrv8 knome micahg mr_pouit ochosi pleia2 skellat Unit193 
[16:02] <meetingology> Current voters: GridCube Unit193 bluesabre elfy jjfrv8 knome micahg mr_pouit ochosi pleia2 skellat ubottu
[16:02] <GridCube> i dont think he will vote skellat 
[16:02] <ochosi> who knows... :)
[16:02] <knome> don't know how to remove a voter...
[16:02] <skellat> :-)
[16:02] <skellat> Lets roll with it then
[16:02] <knome> anywa, let's go
[16:02] <knome> #vote approve knome's voting mechanism?
[16:02] <meetingology> Please vote on: approve knome's voting mechanism?
[16:02] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[16:02] <knome> +1
[16:02] <meetingology> +1 received from knome
[16:02] <elfy> +1
[16:02] <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
[16:02] <pleia2> +1
[16:02] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[16:02] <bluesabre> +1
[16:02] <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
[16:02] <jjfrv8> +1
[16:02] <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
[16:02] <ochosi> +1
[16:02] <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
[16:03] <ochosi> vote ubottu vote!
[16:03] <knome> that's enough +1's
[16:03] <knome> #endvote
[16:03] <meetingology> Voting ended on: approve knome's voting mechanism?
[16:03] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[16:03] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:03] <knome> #voters bluesabre elfy GridCube jjfrv8 knome micahg mr_pouit ochosi pleia2 skellat Unit193 
[16:03] <meetingology> Current voters: GridCube Unit193 bluesabre elfy jjfrv8 knome micahg mr_pouit ochosi pleia2 skellat ubottu
[16:03] <knome> ah, that sticks
[16:03] <knome> good!
[16:03] <knome> #vote Increase the amount of developers/uploaders 
[16:03] <meetingology> Please vote on: Increase the amount of developers/uploaders
[16:03] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[16:03] <knome> +1
[16:03] <meetingology> +1 received from knome
[16:03] <skellat> +1
[16:03] <meetingology> +1 received from skellat
[16:03] <elfy> +1
[16:03] <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
[16:03] <ochosi> +1
[16:03] <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
[16:03] <jjfrv8> +1
[16:03] <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
[16:03] <bluesabre> +1
[16:03] <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
[16:03] <pleia2> +1
[16:03] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[16:03] <GridCube> +1
[16:03] <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
[16:04] <knome> (namely, bluesabre, skellat, ochosi, Noskcaj...)
[16:04] <knome> #endvote
[16:04] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Increase the amount of developers/uploaders
[16:04] <meetingology> Votes for:8 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[16:04] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:04] <knome> #vote Create a new installable "xubuntu-core" metapackage
[16:04] <meetingology> Please vote on: Create a new installable "xubuntu-core" metapackage
[16:04] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[16:04] <knome> +1
[16:04] <meetingology> +1 received from knome
[16:04] <ochosi> +1
[16:04] <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
[16:04] <elfy> +1
[16:04] <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
[16:04] <bluesabre> +1
[16:04] <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
[16:04] <pleia2> +1
[16:04] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[16:04] <jjfrv8> +1
[16:04] <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
[16:04] <skellat> +1
[16:04] <meetingology> +1 received from skellat
[16:04] <GridCube> +1
[16:04] <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
[16:04] <knome> #endvote
[16:04] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Create a new installable "xubuntu-core" metapackage
[16:04] <meetingology> Votes for:8 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[16:04] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:05] <knome> #vote *INCLUDE* xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin?
[16:05]  * knome kicks meetingology 
[16:05] <meetingology> Please vote on: *INCLUDE* xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin?
[16:05] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[16:05] <knome> +0
[16:05] <meetingology> +0 received from knome
[16:05] <ochosi> +1
[16:05] <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
[16:05] <jjfrv8> +1
[16:05] <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
[16:05] <bluesabre> +1
[16:05] <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
[16:05] <elfy> +1
[16:05] <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
[16:05] <pleia2> +0
[16:05] <meetingology> +0 received from pleia2
[16:05] <skellat> -1
[16:05] <meetingology> -1 received from skellat
[16:06] <GridCube> +1
[16:06] <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
[16:06] <bluesabre> include == set as default?
[16:06] <knome> i guess i should have been more verbose
[16:06] <ochosi> i presumed so
[16:06] <knome> i guess that's a yes, otherwise that wording didn't make sense
[16:07] <ochosi> yeah, it'll probably end up in the archive anyway
[16:07] <knome> #endvote
[16:07] <meetingology> Voting ended on: *INCLUDE* xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin?
[16:07] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:1 Abstentions:2
[16:07] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:07] <GridCube> do we need to create rationales for this?
[16:07] <knome> #info since the voting wasn't all-clear, the team should follow on the progress and proposal by ochosi, but basically approved if it's a sane proposal
[16:08] <knome> i expect some rationale in the proposal, yeah
[16:08] <knome> i've asked for a specific proposal from ochosi already
[16:08] <ochosi> well the proposal is there already
[16:08] <GridCube> alright
[16:08] <skellat> As long as we don't look like openSUSE we
[16:08] <skellat> will be fine
[16:08] <ochosi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Whiskermenu
[16:08] <skellat> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Whiskermenu
[16:09] <knome> skellat, urls will be linkified automatically
[16:09] <skellat> Okay
[16:09] <knome> (or at least they used to do that)
[16:09] <elfy> ochosi: can you talk to me when you've time for testing that 
[16:10] <knome> ochosi, you're not proposing how to integrate it into the xubuntu deskop, and what you'd like to drop from the default desktop (eg. how you'd like to change the panel layout)
[16:10] <ochosi> elfy: sure
[16:10] <knome> ochosi, that's pretty much the only reason why i'm not unconditionally +1
[16:10] <knome> anyway, forward!
[16:10] <ochosi> knome: well it does say "advantages over current menu"
[16:10] <ochosi> but well, i can include more info there
[16:11] <ochosi> didn't have too much time before
[16:11] <knome> i'm skipping the "investigate" and "see if we can" -items
[16:11] <knome> those are relatively minor anyway
[16:11] <knome> #vote Community wallpapers package 
[16:11] <meetingology> Please vote on: Community wallpapers package
[16:11] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[16:11] <knome> +1
[16:11] <meetingology> +1 received from knome
[16:11] <skellat> +1
[16:11] <meetingology> +1 received from skellat
[16:11] <GridCube> +1
[16:11] <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
[16:11] <jjfrv8> +1
[16:11] <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
[16:12] <bluesabre> +1
[16:12] <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
[16:12] <ochosi> +1
[16:12] <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
[16:12] <elfy> +1
[16:12] <pleia2> +1
[16:12] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[16:12] <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
[16:12] <GridCube> thats the 8 of us
[16:12] <knome> :)
[16:12] <ochosi> good
[16:12] <knome> #endvote
[16:12] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Community wallpapers package
[16:12] <meetingology> Votes for:8 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[16:12] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:13] <knome> #vote Improve reporting (weekly reports) (voting +1 means you're committed to work gathering the reports as well!)
[16:13] <meetingology> Please vote on: Improve reporting (weekly reports) (voting +1 means you're committed to work gathering the reports as well!)
[16:13] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[16:13] <knome> +1
[16:13] <meetingology> +1 received from knome
[16:13] <pleia2> +1
[16:13] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[16:13] <jjfrv8> +1
[16:13] <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
[16:13] <skellat> +1
[16:13] <meetingology> +1 received from skellat
[16:13] <elfy> +0
[16:13] <meetingology> +0 received from elfy
[16:13] <bluesabre> +1, maybe we can find a place to easily track that?
[16:13] <meetingology> +1, maybe we can find a place to easily track that? received from bluesabre
[16:13] <pleia2> bluesabre: I assumed we'd put them on the monthly team report
[16:14] <GridCube> +1
[16:14] <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
[16:14] <knome> bluesabre, i've been talking with lderan about some fixes/extends to meetingology to be able gather those with #done's or so...
[16:14]  * bluesabre doesn't know about any of our reports :)
[16:14] <ochosi> +0
[16:14] <meetingology> +0 received from ochosi
[16:14] <knome> bluesabre, there isn't such things as "reports" currently :P
[16:14] <knome> and by weekly i meant
[16:14] <skellat> bluesabre: See, for example: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/TeamReports/
[16:14] <knome> monthly reports and weekly reports to -release :)
[16:14] <ochosi> yeah, so "improve" as in: start to write them
[16:14] <knome> but yeah, +1'd with weekly, so...
[16:14] <bluesabre> aha
[16:15] <knome> ochosi, they are basically "written"
[16:15] <knome> just not sent/gathered anywhere
[16:15] <GridCube> #endvote
[16:15] <knome> and no reporting with -release-specific things is done
[16:15] <knome> #endvote
[16:15] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Improve reporting (weekly reports) (voting +1 means you're committed to work gathering the reports as well!)
[16:15] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
[16:15] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:15] <elfy> my +0 is based on the fact that no-one bothers to even reply to mails from me
[16:16] <elfy> so I wonder if anyone will do this 
[16:16] <knome> elfy, let's talk about that after votes
[16:16] <knome> because i +1 that discussion :P
[16:16] <pleia2> elfy: I appreciate your emails :)
[16:16]  * pleia2 sometimes even tweets them herself!
[16:16] <elfy> lol - I assume everyone does, but thanks 
[16:16] <knome> looking if there is something to vote one
[16:16] <elfy> let's do the voting 
[16:16] <knome> *on
[16:17] <knome> #vote Investigate xfce4-power-manager-plugins for inclusion
[16:17] <meetingology> Please vote on: Investigate xfce4-power-manager-plugins for inclusion
[16:17] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[16:17] <knome> +0
[16:17] <meetingology> +0 received from knome
[16:17] <bluesabre> ?
[16:17] <ochosi> frankly, i have no clue what does should do
[16:17] <skellat> -1 after reading discussion earlier today in xfce-dev where this seems to be an open issue upstream
[16:17] <meetingology> -1 after reading discussion earlier today in xfce-dev where this seems to be an open issue upstream received from skellat
[16:17] <knome> that's an item in the roadmap
[16:17] <GridCube> i have no idea of what it is
[16:17] <GridCube> +0
[16:17] <meetingology> +0 received from GridCube
[16:17] <jjfrv8> +0
[16:17] <meetingology> +0 received from jjfrv8
[16:18] <bluesabre> +0
[16:18] <meetingology> +0 received from bluesabre
[16:18] <knome> i don't know what those are either
[16:18] <ochosi> +0
[16:18] <meetingology> +0 received from ochosi
[16:18] <pleia2> +0
[16:18] <meetingology> +0 received from pleia2
[16:18] <elfy> +0
[16:18] <meetingology> +0 received from elfy
[16:18] <ochosi> ok, i'll quickly check...
[16:18] <GridCube> oh right 
[16:18] <knome> i'm just giving it a chance if everybody else was "hell yeah let's put those on the ISO"
[16:18] <GridCube> i remember
[16:18] <knome> #endvote
[16:18] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Investigate xfce4-power-manager-plugins for inclusion
[16:18] <meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:1 Abstentions:7
[16:18] <meetingology> Motion denied
[16:18] <knome> (postponed, at least until somebody sheds light into it)
[16:18] <GridCube> it has a plugin to add brightness controls to the panel
[16:18] <knome> #vote Investigate qpaeq a system wide pulseaudio equalizer
[16:19] <meetingology> Please vote on: Investigate qpaeq a system wide pulseaudio equalizer
[16:19] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[16:19] <knome> -1
[16:19] <meetingology> -1 received from knome
[16:19] <GridCube> +1
[16:19] <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
[16:19] <skellat> +0
[16:19] <meetingology> +0 received from skellat
[16:19] <jjfrv8> +0
[16:19] <meetingology> +0 received from jjfrv8
[16:19] <pleia2> +0
[16:19] <meetingology> +0 received from pleia2
[16:19] <knome> (i don't think xubuntu needs an equalizer, but feel free to prove me wrong)
[16:19] <bluesabre> -1
[16:19] <meetingology> -1 received from bluesabre
[16:19] <bluesabre> same here
[16:19] <elfy> -1
[16:19] <meetingology> -1 received from elfy
[16:19] <ochosi> +0
[16:19] <meetingology> +0 received from ochosi
[16:20] <bluesabre> also, 
[16:20] <ochosi> (last time i checked it wasn't very stable)
[16:20] <knome> GridCube, i'll handle your item on the RAM after the roadmap-voting, because it's a one-off decision rather than putting our time into it
[16:20] <bluesabre> import PyQt4
[16:20] <ochosi> (but i generally wouldn't mind)
[16:20] <bluesabre> that is not gtk :)
[16:20] <knome> oki
[16:20] <GridCube> knome, ok
[16:20] <skellat> -1
[16:20] <knome> #endvote
[16:20] <meetingology> -1 received from skellat
[16:20] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Investigate qpaeq a system wide pulseaudio equalizer
[16:20] <meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:4 Abstentions:3
[16:20] <meetingology> Motion denied
[16:20] <knome> skellat, stealth!
[16:20] <knome> 18:20  knome: #endvote
[16:20] <knome> 18:20  skellat: -1
[16:20] <bluesabre> lol
[16:20] <GridCube> boo :( oh well
[16:20] <skellat> I saw bluesabre mention Qt4 at the last minute
[16:20] <skellat> That's a major blocker!
[16:21] <bluesabre> :)
[16:21] <knome> true
[16:21] <GridCube> true
[16:21] <knome> let's see...
[16:21] <GridCube> wont argue against that
[16:21] <bluesabre> though I could always do the port, but no :)
[16:21] <knome> #vote (Do we want to:) See/ask if we can apply GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=Xubuntu ?
[16:21] <meetingology> Please vote on: (Do we want to:) See/ask if we can apply GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=Xubuntu ?
[16:21] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[16:21] <skellat> -1 breaks UEFI compatability
[16:21] <ochosi> +1
[16:21] <meetingology> -1 breaks UEFI compatability received from skellat
[16:21] <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
[16:21] <pleia2> +1
[16:21] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[16:21] <knome> +0
[16:21] <meetingology> +0 received from knome
[16:21] <jjfrv8> +0
[16:21] <meetingology> +0 received from jjfrv8
[16:21] <knome> skellat, well obviously we would see if we could work around that
[16:21] <ochosi> skellat: really? could you quickly elaborate?
[16:22] <GridCube> +1
[16:22] <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
[16:22] <bluesabre> +0
[16:22] <meetingology> +0 received from bluesabre
[16:22] <knome> ochosi, studio and kubuntu had != ubuntu, and they had broken images for UEFI
[16:22] <skellat> ochosi: Kubuntu had an open bug with 13.10 about that matter that they had to fix
[16:22] <knome> ochosi, some hardcoded string stuff i think
[16:22] <elfy> +0
[16:22] <meetingology> +0 received from elfy
[16:22] <ochosi> well if other distros have the same issue, i'd say we can fix it together
[16:22] <ochosi> skellat: or do you generally dislike the idea?
[16:22] <knome> unless it's and UEFI-UEFI bug/"feature"
[16:23] <knome> *a
[16:23] <elfy> couldn't we postpone that for more information? 
[16:23] <ali1234> bug 1242417
[16:23] <knome> elfy, we shall do that :)
[16:23] <ochosi> i mean the whole vote is only about "whether we want to ask/investigate about it"
[16:23] <pleia2> ochosi: yeah
[16:23] <elfy> oh 
[16:23] <elfy> then +1
[16:23] <knome> if you want to change votes... you can do it
[16:23] <elfy> +1
[16:23] <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
[16:23] <ochosi> don't see much reason against that tbh, unless ppl think it's a waste of time
[16:23] <elfy> :)
[16:24] <skellat> ochosi: Unless LP Bug 1242417 can be fixed soon, we have other things to worry about
[16:24] <bluesabre> bug 1242417
[16:24] <pleia2> it is terribly annoying on laptops where I multi-boot to change grub myself ;)
[16:24] <knome> skellat, are you generally against it (-1) or not (+1), or want to know more about it generally (not about when bugs are fixed, +0)?
[16:24] <bluesabre> oh that one, not too observant, am I?
[16:24]  * pleia2 departs
[16:24] <elfy> cya
[16:24] <knome> pleia2, have fun!
[16:24] <GridCube> bye
[16:24] <skellat> +0
[16:24] <meetingology> +0 received from skellat
[16:25] <knome> #endvote
[16:25] <bluesabre> have fun pleia2!
[16:25] <meetingology> Voting ended on: (Do we want to:) See/ask if we can apply GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=Xubuntu ?
[16:25] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:4
[16:25] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:25] <knome> let's investigate investigating more.
[16:25] <knome> i think the rest are not really specification stuff
[16:25] <knome> look more like one-off decisions
[16:25] <knome> so,
[16:26] <knome> #action knome to tweak the roadmap after the meeting
[16:26] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to tweak the roadmap after the meeting
[16:26] <knome> #subtopic Strategy Document reviewing
[16:26] <knome> #info postpone
[16:26] <knome> #topic Announcements
[16:27] <knome> #info Ubuntu Developer Summit will run November 19-21, agenda at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/
[16:27] <knome> #action team to see the uds schedule and see if they want to participate in sessions
[16:27] <meetingology> ACTION: team to see the uds schedule and see if they want to participate in sessions
[16:27] <knome> #nick team
[16:27] <knome> #info Community: Elizabeth and Elfy are elected as members of the Community Council
[16:27] <knome> CONGRATS!
[16:28] <skellat> Congratulations!
[16:28] <ochosi> +1
[16:28] <GridCube> :D
[16:28] <bluesabre> way to go!
[16:28] <jjfrv8> +1
[16:28] <skellat> The March of Xubuntu Through The Institutions!
[16:28] <elfy> thanks :)
[16:28] <knome> alias TMXTI
[16:29] <knome> #subtopic Development: screen-locking update for 14.04 
[16:29] <knome> ochosi?
[16:29] <ochosi> yup, thanks for the reminder
[16:29] <knome> well it was on the agenda! :)
[16:29] <slickymaster> sorry for being late guys
[16:29] <ochosi> i've worked with peter to improve light-locker feature-wise so it'll be a real replacement for xscreensaver
[16:29] <knome> skellat, no problem :)
[16:29] <knome> \o/
[16:29] <knome> awesome
[16:29] <knome> slickymaster, ^
[16:30] <ochosi> #info version 1.1.0 of light-locker features time-based locking
[16:30] <elfy> brb door
[16:30] <ted__> oh, i forgot to say hi.
[16:30] <knome> hey ted__, welcome!
[16:30] <ted__> hi, eveyone.
[16:30] <GridCube> :) hi
[16:30] <ochosi> #info ochosi also patched lightdm-gtk-greeter to blank the screen when light-locker locks the session
[16:30] <slickymaster> ted__: hi, welcome
[16:31] <ochosi> so that basically means what we'll have in 14.04 is light-locker, which blanks the screen after the timeout set by X11's screensaver extension (that's installed anyway)
[16:31] <ochosi> hopefully we can provide some simple UI to control that
[16:31] <elfy> back
[16:31] <ochosi> or even better: integrate it into the power-manager UI
[16:31] <knome> ochosi, let elfy know what kind of testing you need for it
[16:31] <ochosi> #info for people who want to test this: use the daily PPAs of light-locker and lightdm-gtk-greeter
[16:32] <ochosi> https://launchpad.net/~light-locker/+archive/daily
[16:32] <elfy> #info everyone - please give enough time to plan testing
[16:32] <ochosi> https://launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/+archive/daily
[16:32] <knome> ochosi, that's "how", also remember to tell "what" :)
[16:33] <ochosi> #info after upgrading these two components, the screen will automatically be locked after the timeout set in X11 (can be controlled via "xset s $timeout")
[16:33] <ochosi> #info if you need help or run into problems, feel free to ping ochosi
[16:33] <bluesabre> (be sure to remove xscreensaver first)
[16:33] <ochosi> #info uninstall xscreensaver in case you want to test this
[16:33] <ochosi> thanks bluesabre, might've forgotten to mention that :)
[16:34] <knome> ok, cool
[16:34] <ochosi> knome: ok, that's it
[16:34] <knome> #topic Team updates
[16:34] <ochosi> questions?
[16:34] <ochosi> ok
[16:34] <ochosi> :)
[16:34] <knome> (please use #info and #action)
[16:34] <knome> (direct questions at ochosi after the meeting)
[16:35] <knome> no team updates?
[16:35] <knome> yay.
[16:35] <bluesabre> #info Noskcaj has been helping to whip catfish into shape, cleaning up the packaging, the code, and even adding a manpage
[16:35] <ochosi> not really, i mean artwork is gradually improving, but that's always the case :)
[16:35] <knome> #info knome and Unit193 have been looking at translating the docs
[16:35] <skellat> #info File a bug against xubuntu-docs to suggest documentation enhancements for the Trusty Tahr cycle
[16:36] <elfy> #info QA is mostly planned for the cycle - should be plenty of room for manoeuvre for new things
[16:36] <bluesabre> #info ochosi and bluesabre have been working on upgrading parole, new plugin coming soon for mpris :)
[16:36] <ochosi> bluesabre: let's hope 0.6 can go into 14.04 (looking at you, libxfce4ui...)
[16:36] <elfy> #info QA mailings have started
[16:36] <bluesabre> #info and hopefully fixed packaging for parole's plugins :)
[16:36] <elfy> #info QA blogs waiting for the website
[16:37] <knome> #action knome to look at the QA articles drafted in xubuntu.org
[16:37] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to look at the QA articles drafted in xubuntu.org
[16:37] <knome> #undo
[16:37] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x18e2890>
[16:37] <knome> #nick xubuntu-website
[16:37] <knome> #action xubuntu-website and knome to look at the QA articles drafted in xubuntu.org
[16:37] <meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-website and knome to look at the QA articles drafted in xubuntu.org
[16:38] <knome> #topic New and emerging items
[16:38] <knome> #subtopic QA mailings
[16:38] <knome> elfy, so, you've send mails about ISO/package testing
[16:38] <elfy> yep 
[16:38] <knome> elfy, what kind of replies did you expect to get?
[16:38] <elfy> none to those :)
[16:39] <knome> okay
[16:39] <knome> (good)
[16:39]  * skellat has to go as dog ran away
[16:39] <knome> the "what to test" -replies have been penging on today's voting (we should've done that last week)
[16:39] <elfy> the ones about planning though specifically asked for team to comment, 
[16:39] <elfy> yea I guess
[16:40] <knome> i'm sorry if i haven't replied to some of the planning mails; everything i've seen has been good :)
[16:40]  * bluesabre will try to improve his responsiveness with responding to the ML
[16:40] <knome> i hope to get more organized once i get the blueprints and work items se tout
[16:40] <knome> *set ou
[16:40] <knome> *set out
[16:40] <knome> :|
[16:41] <elfy> knome: even if the 'what to test' was pending - the general parts of the mail could have been commented on 
[16:41] <knome> #action team to be more responsive on mails on -devel
[16:41] <meetingology> ACTION: team to be more responsive on mails on -devel
[16:41] <knome> for me it has looked like everybody has been really busy though :/
[16:42] <knome> me included
[16:42] <elfy> yea - I understand that, I am as well 
[16:43] <knome> i will be in touch with all people individually on blueprints/efforts they are leading to set up the blueprints and work items
[16:43] <elfy> ok
[16:43] <knome> if you have any doubts or worries, tell me about those when i get to you :)
[16:43] <knome> and i will try to reflect on that in any way that might help
[16:44] <knome> elfy, and again, i'm sorry if i haven't replied to something; i've noticed a reminder-mail works wonders, even on mailing lists; don't be afraid to send such :)
[16:45] <elfy> I'm not blaming anyone :)
[16:45]  * skellat has retrieved and disciplined dog
[16:45] <knome> #subtopic Review minimum system requirements
[16:46] <knome> GridCube, poke
[16:46] <GridCube> alright
[16:46] <GridCube> i made a simple rationale if you could read it
[16:46] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GridCube/rationales/new_ram
[16:46] <elfy> read it 
[16:46] <knome> me too
[16:46] <knome> my first thoughts:
[16:46] <knome> i agree that a browser is an integral part of operating system
[16:47] <knome> but isn't it silly to set the system requirements based on what its usage needs?
[16:47] <GridCube> i don't believe so.
[16:47] <GridCube> also, thats just an example, other areas also lag very much on low ram settings
[16:47] <ali1234> by that reasoning xubuntu ram requirement should be like 256MB still
[16:47] <knome> if a user is able to run several other applications (like abiword+gnumeric) well with 512MB, isn't it a fair thing that minimum required is 512
[16:48] <GridCube> yes, they could, but it should not be the minimum recommended
[16:48] <elfy> my thinking is we should set our's using the same rationale for setting it as other's do - or we'll end up looking like we need more than Ubuntu
[16:48] <ochosi> i think this discussion revolves more about what "minimum requirement" means to us...
[16:48] <bluesabre> minimum should be whatever is required to boot the live cd
[16:48] <ochosi> yeah, i somewhat agree with bluesabre on that one
[16:48] <bluesabre> everything else can go to swap once installed :)
[16:48] <knome> you *can* use xubuntu with 512MB
[16:48] <ochosi> ppl can always launch crazy huge slow java apps
[16:49] <GridCube> yes, you can. that is true. but as i propose it the "recommended to have a pleasant experience"
[16:49] <knome> or do heavy graphics editing with GIMP
[16:49] <knome> (which is installed by default)
[16:49] <GridCube> you can use the apps, if you have patience
[16:50]  * knome checks the wording on the website
[16:50] <elfy> how about a minimum and a better guide for 'this is more pleasant' type thing
[16:50] <knome> ok, the website says
[16:50] <knome> "Minimum system requirements"
[16:50] <knome> in addition, we could have "Recommended system resources"
[16:50] <GridCube> yes :)
[16:50] <knome> for that, 1GB sounds like a good fit
[16:51] <elfy> I'd go for that 
[16:51] <GridCube> i agree
[16:51] <knome> #action team to set "recommended system resources" in stone
[16:51] <meetingology> ACTION: team to set "recommended system resources" in stone
[16:51] <GridCube> haha
[16:52] <knome> #action xubuntu-website to update website with "recommended system resources"
[16:52] <meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-website to update website with "recommended system resources"
[16:52] <knome> GridCube, well, we need to consider disk space as well
[16:52] <knome> GridCube, would you like to send an email on that to the ML?
[16:52] <GridCube> sure
[16:52] <elfy> I promise to reply to it ;)
[16:52] <knome> GridCube, just a quick one would do, to gather comments and then vote on the next meeting
[16:52] <GridCube> P:
[16:52] <GridCube> alright
[16:52] <knome> (and if no comments have been sent... then just vote)
[16:53] <knome> #nick Unit193 
[16:53] <knome> #info Unit193 is hiding
[16:53] <knome> #action Unit193 to stop hiding
[16:53] <meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to stop hiding
[16:53] <Unit193> Nothin' to say.
[16:53] <elfy> lol
[16:53] <ochosi> well what about the -core thingy?
[16:53] <bluesabre> then use #lurk, right?
[16:53] <knome> bluesabre, that's for the bot
[16:54] <knome> bluesabre, ...oh wait, Unit193 is a bot
[16:54] <knome> :|
[16:54] <bluesabre> see!
[16:54] <knome> Unit193, want to discuss that already?
[16:54] <knome> ochosi, i was trying to test it earlier today, but it was broken but he just PM'd me he fixed it.
[16:54] <Unit193> I wanted coffee, but fine.
[16:54] <knome> #subtopic xubuntu-core discussion
[16:54] <Unit193> knome: Should be fixed for amd64, but let me try it.
[16:56] <knome> Unit193, works noe
[16:56] <knome> *now too
[16:56] <knome> gets 94.6MB, installed size 290MB
[16:56] <knome> (with --no-install-recommends)
[16:56] <Unit193> Heh, sorry 'bout that.  That was elfy's problem too, then.
[16:56] <knome> installing
[16:57] <ochosi> so what'd be the total iso size for xubuntu-core?
[16:57] <knome> iso size?
[16:57] <Unit193> Alright, so it's made to be installed via apt-get install --no-install-recommends, though could be done with tasksel which would then bring in recommends of the meta without (or hopefully without) all the crazy extras.
[16:58] <elfy> I know a couple of forum people that would be interested in testing it, if and when it's needed.
[16:58] <knome> Unit193, what's pending to get it to tasksel?
[16:58] <ochosi> knome: well i know that we kinda ruled out a separate iso for -core for 14.04, but in general it'd be interesting to know
[16:58] <Unit193> knome: Well, another review of the seed and the recommends, it can't be tested without actually being merged though.
[16:59] <ochosi> or: complete installed size
[16:59] <skellat> Right now a merge proposal would probably be needed against the seed to add the separate seed file
[16:59] <knome> Unit193, oki
[16:59] <knome> skellat, ack
[16:59] <Unit193> I'd like to try and keep things in deps, so it can be installed either way.
[16:59] <knome> Unit193, since the team showed green light to it... can we progress with that stuff? :)
[17:00] <Unit193> But, you could put the fonts (liberation) in recommends and/or indicators too.
[17:00] <Unit193> knome: I suppose?
[17:00] <knome> ok, cool
[17:01] <knome> #action team to work with Unit193 to progress with the -core meta
[17:01] <meetingology> ACTION: team to work with Unit193 to progress with the -core meta
[17:01] <knome> more subjects to discuss?
[17:02] <jjfrv8> skellat, what are the next steps on the SRU docs problem?
[17:02] <knome> #action knome to look into the docs SRU problem
[17:02] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to look into the docs SRU problem
[17:02] <GridCube> will the gtk3 indicators issue be fixed for 14.04?
[17:02] <knome> looks like what ochosi said is true
[17:02] <ochosi> GridCube: it's on the roadmap
[17:02] <knome> GridCube, that's the plan
[17:02] <GridCube> alright
[17:02] <GridCube> i can't remember anything else now
[17:03] <ochosi> ok folks, gotta take off, feel free to ping me if there are any more questions
[17:03] <ochosi> elfy: ah right, you wanted to talk something over before?
[17:04] <elfy> ochosi: it can wait - no hurry
[17:04] <elfy> well not much of a hurry anyway :)
[17:04] <ochosi> what did you want to know, thoguh?
[17:04] <ochosi> though
[17:04] <knome> Unit193, we will need different menu/panel stuff for -core
[17:04] <Unit193> knome: Oh?
[17:05] <elfy> ochosi: was just - what things will you want testing, what install info is there - if I have that then I can push the testing
[17:05] <ochosi> knome: can't it use the stuff from the xfce session?
[17:05] <Unit193> knome: Ah, you mean the missing icons, not really a huge deal to me.
[17:05] <elfy> ochosi: the ppa links earlier
[17:05] <ochosi> elfy: well for light-locker i think i mentioned most
[17:05] <elfy> ok 
[17:05] <knome> Unit193, that, and the apps menu is a bit off (two separators on top of each other)
[17:05] <Unit193> knome: USC.
[17:06] <knome> Unit193, i know
[17:06] <ochosi> elfy: if you have more questions there, lemme know
[17:06] <ochosi> elfy: in fact, light-locker is easy to use, but it doesn't autostart until you restarted your session
[17:06] <knome> okay, so
[17:06] <knome> #endmeeting
[17:06] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Nov 14 17:06:48 2013 UTC.  
[17:06] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-11-14-15.55.moin.txt
[17:06] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-11-14-15.55.html
[17:06] <Unit193> knome: Kind of made sense to me to leave them as it'd add more work and in the long run more things to maintain, and pretty simple fix after the install.
[17:06] <elfy> ochosi: I'll look through the meeting logs and see what I need and get to you 
[17:06] <knome> Unit193, yep, but we probably should polish it
[17:07] <GridCube> we didnt choose a next meeting day
[17:07] <ochosi> elfy: if you wanna test locking and the process is already running (if it's not, just do alt+f2 "light-locker"), you can lock manually with "light-locker-command -l"
[17:07] <Unit193> Heh, I know I do. :P
[17:07] <knome> GridCube, oh bleh
[17:07] <slickymaster> knome: I've just found another bug in xubuntu-docs https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bug/1251332 I've assigned myself to it, but a decision has to be made on what approach will be used as a replacement for gksudo
[17:07] <knome> next meeting in a week. :)
[17:07] <GridCube> :)
[17:07] <ochosi> ok folks, bbl
[17:08] <knome> i'll go and put up the minutes now
[17:08] <knome> then the roadmap
[17:08] <knome> then i'll probably take a break
[17:08] <knome> and after that, create the blueprints and such
[17:08] <bluesabre> then take another break
[17:08] <knome> heh
[17:08] <knome> probably...
[17:08] <slickymaster> knome: ^^^ did you saw what I said?
[17:09] <knome> slickymaster, yep, ack
[17:09] <Unit193> (Yep, core worked for me now as well.)
[17:09] <knome> slickymaster, commented
[17:09] <slickymaster> knome: I?ll fix it but there's the need for that decision
[17:10] <slickymaster> ok
[17:11] <slickymaster> knome: ok, I'm on it
[17:11] <knome> lderan, btw, the voting results seem to appear in reverse order :)
[17:37] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/ is updated
[17:38] <elfy> thanks knome 
[17:50] <slickymaster> elfy: I haven't done it yet, so I'm doing it now, congrats on elections to the CC
[17:51] <elfy> thanks slickymaster :)
[17:56] <Unit193> Thu Nov 21 16:00:00 UTC 2013  Should be the next meeting.
[17:57] <Unit193> New event added: http://goo.gl/7cBEpa
[18:01] <Unit193> knome: Here's a thought, mini.iso doesn't do EFI does it?
[18:07] <Unit193> Oh, it does secure boot, I'll shutup.
[18:08] <GridCube> knome, ping
[18:08] <knome> GridCube, pong
[18:08] <knome> Unit193, have no idea
[18:08] <GridCube> ​​
[18:08] <GridCube> It has come to our attention that the current recommende amount of ram in our website might not be up to date.[1] Even if its true that Xubuntu *will* run with this specfications the user experience will not conform to the expected standard.
[18:08] <GridCube> Many users move to Xubuntu from older computers to try to "revitalize" them. We from Xubuntu should warn them that yes, the system will work, that they will be able to use the programs that we provide on our default installation, however this wont be the most seamless of experiences. As Xubuntu is not targeted toward this older systems some of us believe that is important to warn our prospected users about this reality.
[18:08] <GridCube> As we know that many of you deploy xubuntu in regular basis we ask for you to provide us a realistic Minimum and Recommended setup.
[18:08] <GridCube> This means, how much RAM and Hard Disk space you would recommend to new users? If someone came asking if their computer would support Xubuntu, whats the setting you would tell them, that "no, a different distribution will better suit you"?
[18:08] <GridCube> ​[1] http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/​
[18:08] <GridCube> -- 
[18:08] <GridCube> Bruno.- 
[18:08] <GridCube> noooo
[18:08] <GridCube> well
[18:08] <Unit193> :D
[18:08]  * GridCube is ashamed
[18:09] <GridCube> i wanted that to a private message
[18:09] <elfy> I can't see a thing
[18:10] <Unit193> "that they will be able to use the programs that we provide on our default installation"  Firefox and USC?  I'd question those for less than 1G. :)
[18:10] <brainwash> wait what, xubuntu does not work with 512mb ram anymore?
[18:10] <GridCube> yes it does
[18:10] <knome> >___<
[18:10] <GridCube> frell 
[18:11] <knome> ok, i can't think straight any more
[18:11] <knome> i need a break
[18:11] <knome> bbl
[18:11] <knome> GridCube, will get to that then.
[18:12] <GridCube> sorry, :( 
[18:12] <GridCube> http://pad.ubuntu.com/ciuVqx8257
[18:12] <GridCube> here, better
[18:12] <GridCube> someone review it so i dont make a fool of myself
[18:13] <Unit193> knome: And yes, I asked too soon.
[18:13] <brainwash> ochosi: yeah, I did add the comment to the greybird report so you get pinged via email and comment on the report as well :P
[18:14] <elfy> GridCube: is this the mail to the dev list? 
[18:14] <GridCube> yes
[18:14] <brainwash> ochosi: now that the fix has been committed (git)
[18:14] <GridCube> i dont want to send it before someone review it, because i usually missword things
[18:14] <elfy> GridCube: I'll have a look - but I doubt you'll be making a foo of yourself :)
[18:15] <slickymaster> bbl
[18:15] <elfy> cya 
[18:32] <elfy> GridCube: how does that look? does it say what you mean it to say?
[18:35] <GridCube> elfy, :) i added a few things but it seems pretty well
[18:36] <elfy> cool - just did a little thing to it :)
[18:37] <elfy> scans ok to me 
[18:37] <ali1234> uh... not trying to be mean but do either of you guys have english as a first language?
[18:37] <GridCube> not me
[18:37] <elfy> I do - but I have a headache as well :)
[18:38] <GridCube> thats why i ask before sending
[18:40] <elfy> ali1234: change things - that's what a pad's for :)
[18:40] <ali1234> i.. i don't know where to start
[18:40] <elfy> ali1234: you know what this is for? 
[18:40] <ali1234> you just want to ask people how much memory tey think xubuntu needs?
[18:41] <ali1234> i was here for the meeting
[18:41] <elfy> basically
[18:41] <elfy> oh ok - didn't see you :)
[18:42] <Unit193> elfy: He wasn't called out.
[18:42] <ali1234> this is a little bit... wordy
[18:42] <GridCube> ali1234, if you feel it needs to be completely rewriten im ok with that
[18:43] <ali1234> run-on sentences, and so on
[18:49] <ali1234> i think you're largely going to get two kinds of answers to this
[18:49] <ali1234> 1: "i don't recommend anything less than 64-bit/4GB" and
[18:49] <ali1234> 2: "it runs fine for me in 8MB on my 386"
[18:58] <GridCube> ali1234, yeah, well we have to live with that
[18:59] <GridCube> thats why i added the "realistic" point
[19:02] <Unit193> 1G min usable min, IMO. :P
[19:03] <ali1234> i don't like this phrase "seamless experience"
[19:11] <GridCube> yes
[19:11] <GridCube> change it
[19:12] <brainwash> did anything change since.. uhm, ubuntu 11.10? why is more RAM needed now?
[19:13] <ali1234> i can't think of anything better unfortunately
[19:13] <ali1234> brainwash: the problem is mainly internet stuff
[19:14] <ali1234> webpages got fatter in the last two years
[19:14] <Unit193> And kernel/Ubuntu core.
[19:16] <brainwash> yea, maybe
[19:21] <GridCube> brainwash, web browsers
[19:21] <GridCube> they changed a whole freaking lot
[19:22] <brainwash> firefox was always bloated
[19:23] <Unit193> Used to be less.s
[19:23] <brainwash> didn't the mozilla reduce the memory usage?
[19:23] <GridCube> not that i've noticed
[19:23] <Unit193> Yep.
[19:23] <ali1234> they did, but webpages got more complicated too, it balanced out
[19:23] <GridCube> yesterday just two tabs of the ubuntu wiki used 360MiB
[19:23] <Unit193> Flash all the things! :P
[19:23] <brainwash> I guess the main issue is, that most people open several tabs
[19:24] <ali1234> i have 1.3GB in use and i only rebooted today
[19:24] <ali1234> it will be up to 6-7GB in a couple of days when i start opening things
[19:25] <elfy> -/+ buffers/cache:  1312 after 6 hours 
[19:25] <ali1234> cache goes a long way to making the system usable too
[19:26] <elfy> yep
[19:26] <ali1234> especially if you don't have a SSD
[19:27] <GridCube> and if you open a video in youtube you are lost
[19:29] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/feather_beta helps a lot
[20:15] <ochosi> knome: could you check the wallpaper-call one last time?
[20:16] <ochosi> i just added small details about the license
[20:16] <ochosi> or if you were content with it before, then i guess you'll still be happy with it (i didn't add any extra dashes ;))
[20:16] <ochosi> i'd just like to send this out before i leave for the weekend
[20:16] <knome> just do it, it'll be okay
[20:30] <ochosi> knome: i think it'd be cool if there were a blog post summarizing our plans for 14.04
[20:31] <knome> ochosi, i know
[20:31] <knome> it would also be cool if i had the blueprints already organized ;)
[20:32] <Unit193> ochosi: So that everyone can see what fell through? ;)
[20:33] <knome> ochosi, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-artwork
[20:33] <knome> pleia2, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-community
[20:33] <knome> jjfrv8, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-docs
[20:33] <knome> bluesabre, ochosi, mr_pouit, micahg: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-features
[20:33] <knome> pleia2, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-marketing
[20:34] <knome> elfy, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-qa
[20:35] <bluesabre> over here instead
[20:35] <bluesabre> busy cycle
[20:35] <bluesabre> better get started :)
[20:35] <ochosi> knome: thanks for doing all the boring blueprint work!
[20:36] <ochosi> it's much appreciated
[20:36]  * ochosi will try to keep his up-to-date better this cycle
[20:36] <bluesabre> btw knome, I noticed that we have some outdated, and perhaps unofficial, mugs: http://www.zazzle.com/xubuntu_coffee_mugs-168821292867452141
[20:36] <bluesabre> I'd like a fancy new mug :)
[20:36] <bluesabre> pleia2 ^
[20:37] <ochosi> that'd be nice
[20:38] <Unit193> bluesabre: Too small. :P}
[20:41] <bluesabre> I have to admit that I love all the sticker/button options on unixstickers, that was an awesome choice
[20:45] <knome> :)
[20:47] <knome> ochosi, no problem, but please extend as needed, the works items are hardly final
[20:49] <ochosi> knome: ok, hit the publish-button
[20:51] <knome> tweeted
[20:51] <knome> also, https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/401089760774467585
[20:53] <ochosi> nice, thanks
[20:53] <ochosi> i g+'d it
[20:53] <ochosi> maybe someone will fb it
[20:54] <bluesabre> fb the wallpaper stuff?
[20:54] <ochosi> yeah
[20:54] <ochosi> knome: well done! (also the roadmap page)
[20:54] <bluesabre> I'm going to plagiarize you ;)
[20:56] <ochosi> hehe
[20:56] <ochosi> good good
[20:56] <ochosi> i also dropped a hint to webupd8
[20:56] <ochosi> because they had a "what to expect of 14.04" feature today
[20:56] <ochosi> and mentioned that there's no news from us yet
[20:57] <bluesabre> oh, maybe I should just let pleia2 do it
[20:58] <knome> bluesabre, bah!
[20:58] <knome> bluesabre, just do it. we want to spread the burden
[20:58] <knome> it doesn't need to be exactly like the same every time
[20:58] <bluesabre> done
[20:59] <elfy> knome: thanks 
[20:59] <knome> btw, anyone know about linking stuff to facebook a lot?
[20:59] <knome> i could use some insight on that
[21:00] <bluesabre> such as ..?
[21:00] <knome> i'll pm you quickly
[21:10] <brainwash> bluesabre: bug 1251431
[21:11] <brainwash> ^ part of my vision of the flickerfree "greeter -> desktop" transition
[21:18] <bluesabre> :)
[21:19] <brainwash> still working on bug 1232804
[21:21] <ochosi> brainwash: hopefully we can improve this for 14.04
[21:22] <ochosi> did you get a chance yet to test the greeter's blanking on another machine?
[21:23] <brainwash> let me test it on this one here, just need to grab the latest versions of greeter + locker
[21:24] <brainwash> this one is intel based
[21:26] <ochosi> cool
[21:26] <ochosi> anyway, i gotta read the backlog cause i'm off til monday
[21:26] <ochosi> seeya!
[21:29] <brainwash> ochosi: bye
[21:30] <brainwash> ochosi: switching looks ok without the latest greeter version (your commits)
[21:33] <brainwash> ochosi: bad news, it got worse
[21:34] <brainwash> it was ok before
[21:36] <ochosi> brainwash: ?
[21:36] <brainwash> ochosi: it blanks the screen completely (black) before displaying the greeter
[21:36] <ochosi> yeah
[21:36] <ochosi> that's the idea
[21:37] <brainwash> it does not look like an improvement
[21:37] <brainwash> :(
[21:37] <ochosi> it blanks the screen so to act more like a screensaver
[21:37] <brainwash> and why do I lose my kb shortcuts after switching back to my desktop?
[21:38] <ochosi> no clue
[21:38] <brainwash> regardless of the greeter version
[21:38] <ochosi> sounds unrelated though
[21:38] <ochosi> anyway, i'm really off now
[21:38] <brainwash> really? :P
[21:38] <brainwash> ochosi: bye bye
[21:41] <brainwash> ochosi: my result: the black screen adds another "layer" and switching seems to be slightly slower
[23:18] <GridCube> i'm ok with the etherpad at the moment
[23:18] <GridCube> is ok for me to send it to the mailing list?