[00:05] I don't suppose anyone has a use for a quad port PCI-X gige card do they - I seem to have bought two off ebay and found they won't actually fit any of my machines (hint: not all PCI-X cards can go into PCI slots) [00:07] do they not have the gap to fit in 32-bit slots, or? [00:10] daftykins: They do! But the cards are 3.3v only, and the PCI slots are keyed for 5v only; apparently some PCI-X cards can be dual [00:12] ah :( [00:13] daftykins: Exactly [00:13] daftykins: I've actually got one machine with PCI-X - but it's 5v only (early PCI-x machine) [00:14] moop [00:14] i had a PCI-X system once [00:15] my mythtv box [00:16] i had a dual PIII setup [00:16] but in my brothers hands its' one PATA channel died [00:16] so i gave up on it - didn't fancy acquiring any SCSI [00:17] hmm, it's an interesting thought - I wonder whether my old dual Athlon board had PCI-X [00:17] penguin42, probably [00:18] today has been productive for my free software work [00:19] directhex: oh? [00:20] daftykins, https://buildd.debian.org/status/logs.php?pkg=mono&arch=mipsel - i am currently building 3.2.3+dfsg-3 for upload, which will have a successful mipsel build [00:21] damn, according to the online manual my dual athlon board is also 5v [00:22] what mipsel stuff do you run? [00:25] penguin42, none, but i want as much arch coverage as possible in debian === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [07:03] morning all [07:54] would a blog post about why it took 10 years for mono to build on debian mips be interesting? worth doing? [07:56] directhex: even if it's not of interest to most, it's an historical record so I think worth doing :) [07:56] Theee Historical Documents! [07:56] lol [08:07] wooohooo think it's time to download all lur radio episodes and give them a listen [08:09] aah, nostalgia :) [08:09] yeah I blame jono :D [08:29] what is the name of that simple benchmark again? the "count to $a_lot" one? [08:31] This is the one! http://hants.lug.org.uk/wiki/HugoRandomBenchmark [08:33] ☻ [08:33] real 0m2.815s [08:33] user 0m2.771s [08:33] sys 0m0.000s [08:33] (i7-4770K @ 4GHz) [08:34] golly [08:34] *zoom* [08:38] oh wow.. Pentium IIs took >2 minutes to finish that test [08:42] we should move that to some wiki that is actually editable [08:42] the hants lug website is broken [08:46] * AlanBell tries it on a pi [08:48] real 2m21.130s [08:48] user 1m30.890s [08:49] so it's like a Pentium II [08:49] yeah, strapped to a big GPU [08:50] but GPUs usually don't run perl [08:51] my AMD system is over twice as fast as the fastest AMD system on that page [08:51] i think this benchmark s not very accurate [08:51] ali1234: or recent [08:52] ali1234: the newest Intel chip on there is 2.5 years old [08:52] so is my AMD [08:52] ali1234: it must be cheating on the benchmark [09:04] http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/545/ === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [09:23] directhex: once a buildd picks it up, how long will it take to actually build? [09:24] popey, i have no idea - it's never been successfully built, so i have no basis for comparison :p [09:24] popey, i estimate around 6 hours [09:25] What do people use Mono for on MIPS? (or for anything, for that matter, besides games which I see from time to time) [09:25] on mips... well, nothing... yet [09:25] heh [09:25] i believe the upstream port exists due to android mips [09:25] Part of me asking is that my team is probably going to get merged with a MS / .NET team and it would be interesting to work out the arguments for keeping our Linux servers (oh, yeah, MIPS no compiley, duh) [09:26] well, the upstream port *is maintained* due to it [09:26] what is it used for generally... desktop apps. games. daemons. same stuff as you use java or python for, really [09:30] Good morning peeps :) [09:30] morning [09:30] hello [09:37] Good evening and welcome [09:37] I'm not sure it's evening [09:37] I could be wrong [09:38] Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy PlayStation 4 Release Day! :-D [09:38] Today I have time off work, and I'm going to use it to finish writing my wiki (wiki.supermatt.net, all done in python/flask), and go see gravity [09:38] good morning everyone. [09:38] JamesTait: why would you say that in ubuntu-uk :( [09:39] Laney, only because I couldn't stand the alternative - Clean Your Fridge Day. :-/ [09:48] Naah, the big gaming news today is the release of X-Rebirth [09:48] Playstation 4 is just Christmas toy news. [09:49] I'm very interested in x-rebirth [09:50] my boss has bought it, so I'm going to see how it looks next week [10:07] good morning [10:07] since it's Friday [10:07] here's a kitty video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTZnutpgOkU [10:09] lol I as expecting some monster to appear. [10:16] Kittah! [10:16] glad it's the weekend tomorrow, had enough already today lol [10:16] Kissa! [10:17] Maybe even a kuukissa === JamesTai1 is now known as JamesTait [10:17] Here endith my knowledge of Finnish [10:18] moy [10:18] skol [10:19] ubuntu stickers in the wild.. http://ubuntuone.com/4fPqWD7ClyQcIkZusigbYg [10:19] !info gtk-theme-config [10:19] Package gtk-theme-config does not exist in quantal [10:22] !info gtk-theme-config saucy [10:22] gtk-theme-config (source: gtk-theme-config): simple interface to change GTK+ themes. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0-1 (saucy), package size 22 kB, installed size 124 kB [10:26] wow thats an old sticker [10:28] Morning all [10:29] morning [10:31] popey: you shouldn't talk about Elderly with walking sticks like that, it's not respectful ;) [10:32] morning davmor2 [10:42] SuperMatt: Saw Gravity last night, was quite good :) [10:42] awesome [10:43] I'm looking forward to seeing it at the imax today [10:43] between fielding calls from recruiters [10:49] SuperMatt: getting a lot of job requests? [10:49] I might be [10:49] facebook turned me down :( [10:49] * SuperMatt looks at canonical next [10:49] how come? [10:49] SuperMatt: well if you will sign up for these things :) [10:49] I was quite experienced enough [10:50] SuperMatt: i'm always on the look out for canonical stuff :) [10:50] SuperMatt: https://tbe.taleo.net/CH03/ats/careers/searchResults.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&act=sort&sortColumn=2&sortColumn=0 [10:50] any that take your fancy? [10:50] SuperMatt: For some reason davmor2 doesn't need a tea boy :) [10:50] why would the tea boy need a tea boy? [10:50] data centre engineer might be up my street [10:51] popey: you mean davmor2 isn't the big boss? he lies ;) [10:51] ooh, systems administrator [10:51] MooDoo: I did say I could do with a foot masseuse but you turned that down [10:52] davmor2: yeah felt i was under qualified for that one. [10:52] popey: I don't know, I have my Dolce Gusto beside me for the cappuccinos /me doesn't even drink tea :D [10:54] popey: there are two there which might be relevant [10:54] thanks ;) [10:54] ig waut [10:54] *oh wait [10:54] one is based in beijing [10:54] so only one then [10:58] SuperMatt: not looking to move to Beijing then? [11:02] I'm just writing my CV for a datacentre job SuperMatt, looks really interesting [11:03] http://ubuntuone.com/4kkdkUIEuq6mbTkIiOAmTd I have an awesome wife :) [11:05] davmor2: Could not access backend storage [11:06] AlanBell: works here [11:06] Could not access backend storage [11:06] AlanBell: maybe it hadn't finished setting up the sync as it's a video [11:06] davmor2, you've been out-breaker'd. [11:07] JamesTait: I blame you anyway it's U1 [11:09] davmor2, I blame the tester equally. :-P [11:09] JamesTait: Right I'll get onto vila and elopio immediately :P [11:10] :D [11:10] ooh, tea, what a great idea :D [11:11] not working here either davmor2 [11:11] davmor2: sack your tester ;) [11:12] MooDoo: we already been through that one :) [11:12] davmor2: rats [11:15] what are income taxes like in norway? [11:15] exquisite [11:17] AlanBell: http://ubuntuone.com/4kkdkUIEuq6mbTkIiOAmTd can you get it now ? [11:17] anyone know what's happened to u1sdtool in 13.10? doesn't seem to be in the repos? [11:18] davmor2: yeah, that is doing something [11:18] !info u1sdtool [11:18] Package u1sdtool does not exist in quantal [11:18] quantal! [11:18] AlanBell: I tarballed the video :) [11:18] yeah I noticed that - so how do you fix buggy crashy U1 then? [11:19] i still get "a file is no longer published" when i try to publish to u1 [11:19] it is in a different package I think, on sec [11:19] bastubis: it's in the install [11:19] huh? [11:20] bastubis: I typed u1s and hit tab [11:20] !info ubuntuone-client raring [11:20] ubuntuone-client (source: ubuntuone-client): Ubuntu One client. In component main, is optional. Version 4.2.0-0ubuntu1 (raring), package size 11 kB, installed size 156 kB [11:20] bastubis: ubuntuone-client provides it [11:20] so I should just download the tarball and install it with dpkg? [11:20] really? where? [11:20] no, it is in the package [11:20] how do I launch it? [11:20] why is the bot returning package results from quantal? [11:21] bastubis: open the terminal and type u1s and hit tab [11:21] ahhh ok it's preinstalled [11:21] * bastubis has found the manual [11:21] ta! [11:24] click packages - is there any progress on that? [11:24] bashrc: yeah, they work on the phone [11:25] what's the format for them? [11:26] bashrc: http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/apps/packaging-click-apps/ [11:26] roughly speaking, as I understand it, they are a cut down .deb format with added apparmor [11:26] bashrc: click is the format ;) But AlanBell 's link is better. [11:27] and they are designed to work with a read-only root filesystem [11:28] what is a mildly sensible file format for some preference variables that I will need to read from bash and python? [11:29] I wasn't thinking of the web interface. If I wanted to create a click package, supposing that I have a binary and I know some dependencies, could I make a script or something) which builds the package? [11:29] click build ./foo [11:29] it doesn't really make sense to call click a cut down .deb - .deb is just two tar files joined together it doesn't get much simpler than that [11:29] where ./foo contains your application [11:29] ali1234: it doesn't have scripts [11:29] you can look at it from either end [11:30] bashrc: click packages have no concept of dependencies [11:30] well, they have a simple one.. you depend on the sdk revision, which assumes some dependencies [11:31] so an app could be written for ubuntu-14.04 and wouldn't be installable on ubuntu-13.10 for example [11:31] Lets try this again google plus just caught up with u1 :) https://plus.google.com/u/1/104244164525559506101/posts/dVcyXFQCMwJ I have an awesome wife [11:32] I'm still no wiser about the format of click packages [11:32] so basically a click package is just an archive with some files in it [11:33] ok, like a deb [11:33] no, not like a deb [11:33] a deb has dependencies a pre/post-install scripts [11:33] it's more like a tar.gz [11:34] ali1234: Did you not just point out that a deb is a couple of tarballs? In that case it's like a deb then right :D [11:35] it's an ar file containing a data.tgz and a control.tgz [11:35] bashrc: but you just use "click build ./foo" to build it [11:35] click: error: directory "./foo" does not contain manifest file "manifest.json" [11:35] bashrc: more infos https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-May/037074.html [11:35] yeah, there's some documented bits you need [11:37] not massively well documented [11:37] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement/Manifest [11:37] ah [11:40] !info bash [11:40] bash (source: bash): GNU Bourne Again SHell. In component main, is required. Version 4.2-5ubuntu3 (saucy), package size 603 kB, installed size 1388 kB [11:40] ^^ ali1234 [11:40] bashrc: this might be a better example of how to manual build a click package rather than the sdk way. http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/webapp/packaging-web-apps/ [11:40] fixed? [11:40] what's a good way to get in contact with Jorge Castro? [11:41] SuperMatt: irc [11:41] any channel? [11:41] SuperMatt: jcastro on IRC, normally in #ubuntu-community-team and other places [11:41] cool, thanks [11:41] SuperMatt: lurk in #ubuntu-community-team or email him https://launchpad.net/~jorge [11:41] davmor2: that's a much better description [11:41] so how do i make a manifest file for a new click package? [11:44] see http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/webapp/packaging-web-apps/ and http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/apps/security-policy-for-click-packages/ [11:48] if there's bits missing or unclear, let me know and we can get it fixed [11:50] bashrc: it is only effectively a desktop file and a manifest and a permissions file as it is a webapp but it gives you a good idea. [11:50] it would be nice if it wasn't necessary to keep the manifest.json in the same directory as all the files [11:50] i don't want it in the .zip or .tar.gz or .deb versions [11:51] you can [11:51] you can put the manifest file somewhere else, and specify click build -m PATH ./foo [11:51] can i make a click package with no dependency? [11:52] not tried that [11:52] I get "Framework "ubuntu-sdk-13.10" not present on system (use --force-missing-framework option to override)" when i try to install it [11:52] probably [11:52] yes [11:52] we don't currently support click package installs on desktop [11:52] it's for phone/tablet at the moment [11:52] but you can do as it says and --force-missing-framework [11:53] and see if it works, and you get to keep the pieces if it doesn't [11:53] click: error: no such option: --force-missing-framework [11:53] during install? [11:53] no, during package build [11:53] not during build [11:53] no, you specify during install [11:53] that's not much use [11:54] i want to make a click package that doesn't depend on any framework [11:54] I was really getting ahead of myself. Probably I'll only really be interested in implementing click packages once that system is available on the desktop [11:54] oh, sorry, you're building a click package? [11:54] yes [11:54] I haven't used that parameter when building [11:54] also -m path doesn't work [11:55] this topic should be discussed in #ubuntu-touch where the devs are btw ☻ [11:55] or indeed #ubuntu-app-devel [11:55] manifest.json is in current directory. click build -m manifest.json foo/ -> "click: error: directory "foo/" does not contain manifest file "manifest.json"" [11:56] looks like a bug [11:56] hmm wait [11:56] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click/+bugs [11:56] click build -m . foo/ -> works, kind of (actually it crashes) [12:05] reported [12:05] thanks [12:05] click needs a framework that defined only glibc, x11, and alsa [12:07] ali1234: why would it define x11, it's built to build against mir [12:07] davmor2: uh, because my app requires x11 [12:08] and glibc, x11, alsa is the minimum you can expect to find on any linux distribution [12:08] this would make click packages actually cross platform [12:08] though i can understand why you wouldn't want that to happen [12:12] ali1234: are you just missing the point of mir and wayland in that x goes away at which point why would you target x11 again? Don't forget this is a future package that just happens to be available currently on Phones and tablets because they have all the confined elements [12:12] as for alsa I think you just add audio iirc [12:13] you can't "just add audio" [12:13] and X11 is not going away any time soon [12:13] indeed, next LTS will ship with X11. [12:13] currently with click you make make up any framework name you want [12:14] however the only ones that anyone will ever actually have is the ubuntu-sdk ones [12:14] not sure when click is planned to be in desktop [12:14] i set framework to "none-require-please-force-install" [12:14] this is a fairly poor workaround [12:14] yeah, you're using click packages outside the current use cases. it's not been worked on for desktop use cases yet [12:17] ali1234: this is my point, click is designed to run on mir with unity8 inside appamour confinement, That is not currently available on the desktop until it is you won't have click by default and it would work as expected until those parts are meet [12:18] yeah here's the problem with that: i will not support mir in my app [12:18] so either you make a framework for x11 apps, or my app doesn't go in a click package [12:18] i don't see why you have such a hard time understanding this [12:19] popey, 12.04 is x11? [12:19] er, 14.04 [12:19] ali1234: bingo so you package it as a deb the end [12:19] no, i will not package it as a deb either [12:20] i will ship it as a tar.gz, the way all linux game developers currently do anyway [12:20] the tgz will contain all the dependencies, and they'll be built against x11, again exactly like all linux games currently are [12:21] directhex: yup [12:21] popey, thank fuck. that simplifies my deployments no end [12:21] ali1234: out of interest, what framework do you use? sdl? [12:21] i use ogre3d [12:21] ah yes [12:21] i use SDL for input and sound [12:22] but SDL2, because SDL1 is horrible [12:23] "click list" is broken btw [12:23] on desktop? [12:23] yes [12:24] yeah, as I said, out of scope [12:28] argh [12:28] distressing snapping / pinging sound when I leaned a bit on $brokenchair just now [12:28] * Laney bumps the urgency of acquiring a replacement [12:33] Laney: I can recommend the Markus from ikea [12:33] just called to have this one taken away [12:33] so there is a deadline of next thursday by which I need to have replaced it :P [12:36] * awilkins seconds the Markus [12:36] cheers for the recommendation [12:36] Mesh back, leather seat cover, floating pivot [12:37] Good price for what it is [12:37] awilkins: and don't forget the padded lower back support too :) [12:38] The chair I have in the office is probably nicer, but it also probably cost a bazillion quid because Government Procurement + Trained Ergonomic Person to help set it up [12:39] Has an inflatable padded lower back support for super-awesome controllability [12:39] awilkins: that just takes the p [12:39] * popey needs to fix his aeron [12:40] davmor2, I know, could probably have got a much nicer one if I'd just expensed it / was allowed to [12:40] Shoot all the damn lawyers and return to a common-sense system [12:41] awilkins: why did you not just get a lazyboy 9000 and be done :D [12:41] davmor2, I'm not sure it would actually be a good coding chair [12:41] Some kind of reclining workstation with the screen built in would be good [12:42] awilkins: only cause the bosses would see you alseep on the job ;) [12:42] There was some news about VRDs that sounded positive [12:42] The main concern I have with an Oculus is the weight - a VRD rig will be lighter [12:42] Wonder how useful they'll be for programming / workstation purposes [12:43] awilkins: VRDs just makes it sound like something you would catch and not talk about except to a Doctor [12:43] And the plus side to a head mounted display is noone can shoulder surf you.. [12:44] mmmm ergonomics http://i.imgur.com/3Gr4mr8.jpg [12:46] awilkins: you have a head mounted to your display I'm not surprised any one want to shoulder surf you :D [12:46] If I could actually repel certain users with a shrunken head talisman I might consider getting one [12:47] shauno: That looks like it would be really uncomfortable [12:49] not mine thankfully, just the first la-z-boy shot I found that didn't look like it should be burnt by guys in yellow rubber suits [12:50] :) [12:50] A 135 degree angle is optimal for your health though :-) [12:51] Relieves disc pressure [12:51] I'm either at a desk in an upright position using a desktop, or my laptop is on the arm of a reclining sofa while I recline [12:51] \o/ aeron working [12:51] awilkins: I think the reclining would give me the 135 degree angle [12:52] MartijnVdS: https://twitter.com/amx109/status/401331105757794305 [12:52] we had one of those ergonomics voodoo chaps visit at work. they seemed me worried about the stuff all over my desk, than the chair [12:53] Really, I could totally go for the Matrix style pink goo floatation pod once they get the technical details sorted [13:00] shauno: have you seen that battlestation hidden inside a wardrobe photo? [13:01] I've seen all manner of sins on /r/battlestations [13:02] this one is the worst [13:03] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24939133 wat [13:08] hah http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/actress-in-andy-kaufman-hoax-675432 [13:12] Myrtti: https://twitter.com/Geeky_Knit/ [13:12] cool, but that's twitter. I go there once in a blue moon nowadays [13:13] My gf is currently learning crochet and knitting, so I've commissioned her to make a Marvin along the lines of the one from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QIk_qWLx2s [13:13] hah [13:13] Oh, that's in French. My point stands though [13:13] davmor2: you have a nice wofe :) [13:13] Anyone else having a problem with firefox today? i did an upgrade and now firefox thinks im arabic?? [13:13] wife even [13:15] everything is right->left and the searches are all in what im guessing is arabic. help? === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [13:16] You've been targetted for Islamification. The Iman will be with you shortly. [13:17] sweet [13:18] He doesn't feel pity. Or remorse. Or fear. Except of bacon. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are.. well, Muslim. [13:20] Well Praise Mohammed!!!! i would usually use google to fix my problem but i cant speak Arabic. Has anyone else got any ideas? [13:20] Delete your profile folder? [13:20] mbs_: there's a switch to start Firefox with a new profile [13:20] Or that [13:20] or at least with the profile manager [13:21] 'firefox-bin -p' perhaps? [13:22] ok i stopped panicing and deleted my .mozilla folder and its all fixed, thanks all. Why do you think it went wacky in the first place? [13:23] Maybe some clown reset your language settings... maybe you accidentally hit it with a Unity HUD search [13:24] oh, is there new firefox? === schwuk is now known as schwuk_away [13:24] oddly I just udpated and got a new google chrome ☻ [13:25] yes and made me sad and arabic [13:25] chrome made your firefox sad and arabic? [13:26] well it made firefox arabic and me sad [13:26] I have not observed this behaviour but will be on the look out for it [13:27] might of been something stupid i did, but i cant imge how i did it [13:27] I wouldn't venture to suggest you did something stupid [13:28] theres a long history of me effing up ubuntu installs [13:28] jussi: did you find another / better HDMI splitter? [13:28] oh. well done [13:28] popey: nope [13:32] so ive decided to sack off Firefox and use Chrome for a bit [13:33] i switched to chromium [13:33] firefox is dead to me [13:33] why, did it kick your cat? [13:34] it doesn't work as well as chromium for my use case [13:34] i keep deciding to use firefox and forgetting [13:35] mozilla needs serious reforming as the waste is colossal [13:35] richest OSS project i know , with not much to show for it [13:37] im getting anoyed with it for stuff like today and the way it peggs my gpu, and the tab bar corrupts if you open more then 5 gif images [13:37] firefox -ProfileManager will let you have as many profiles as you like and choose a default... [13:37] firefox -p profilename will start it using the profile [13:38] I use Firefox mostly and chrome too. [13:38] how does i wonder which is better , nexus4 or moto g [13:38] Firefox is very fat now and seems to use less memory than chrom [13:38] or whether nexus4 is even buyable anywhere [13:38] s\fat\fast [13:38] lol [13:38] TheOpenSourcerer: every release i'm told that, but the fact is they are both bloaty RAM munchers [13:39] Hardly surprising when we *all* end up with 50 tabs open at any one time, most with hugely complex JQuery/Javascript stuff running in the background [13:40] It amazes me they work as well as they do ;-) [13:40] Lynx they ain't [13:43] is that the command line one? === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [13:43] mbs_: http://lynx.browser.org/ [13:44] yeaaahhhh thats the open i used in college when we had a terminal access and some really shoddy security on the server [13:49] suddenly horse looks more appetising when viewed like this http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71134000/gif/_71134314_newhorsecut.gif [13:50] I never though horse unappetising to be honest. I've eaten it in Spain and Belgium before. [13:51] had it in russia [13:51] tasted like braised beef [13:52] pate on toast for lunch [13:52] last two slices of bread in the house. nicely burned.. oops [13:52] * TheOpenSourcerer just had a chicken jalfrezy [13:53] Had a Chicken Naga last night, and a chicken Madras for lunch yesterday. [13:54] Was at a curry house the other night that had a Chicken Naga [13:54] I didn't have it. [13:55] The one I had last night (http://themahaan.co.uk/) was "OK". Not that great TBH. [14:00] went to wetherspoons for lunch. 40 minute wait for food, went elsewhere === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [14:25] We have a 'spoons outside at the station. The venue of choice for all the 0800 lager drinkers. [14:27]