[17:09] <OvenWerks> Just some thoughts... I know there are not that any people here right now, but, what things about the way the desktop is do you find anoying/confusing?
[17:09] <OvenWerks> I think I will be more vocal about this in the ML
[17:10] <holstein> i think JACK is a mess, still
[17:10] <holstein> just clicking on something like ardour will not typically make audio start to work
[17:11] <holstein> it basically either crashes something, or starts JACK in the background, potentially making audio not work
[17:11] <holstein> not sure what to do about this
[17:12] <holstein> i think we might still have an identity issue as well.. is the desktop for audio? video? graphics?
[17:12] <holstein> if its for video, "why doesnt it include my favorite editor, which is the best option in linux".. they say
[17:13] <holstein> i *really* like the idea of adding the studio workflows to any DE
[17:14] <holstein> it gets back to a sort of idea that cory came in with.. basically not having a particular "release" of an official kind, but maintaining packages and meta packages
[17:14] <holstein> OvenWerks: what do you find "annoying"?
[17:50] <holstein> OvenWerks: that mute bug is a drag.. and the screensaver/locker looks *bad*
[20:17] <zequence> holstein: That is one thing I've been planning to work on this cycle
[20:17] <zequence> might require a wrapper script for each application that can use jack
[20:17] <zequence> or, upstream changes. Trying to create some sort of standard
[20:18] <holstein> its tough
[20:18] <holstein> i think falk is looking at that as well
[20:19] <zequence> really? I should talk with him about that then
[20:19] <holstein> wont hurt
[20:19] <holstein> im sure he'd share
[20:27] <zequence> Just makes sense we don't do more than one solution to that problem
[20:27] <holstein> why break tradition ;)
[20:29] <zequence> hehe
[20:29] <holstein> seems like we could talk everyone upstream into leaving that lock screen
[20:38] <OvenWerks> holstein: I was talking about desktop stuff itself
[20:38] <OvenWerks> Take a quick look at the email I sent to the list
[20:40] <OvenWerks> I agree the way Jack works is not the best either though.
[20:41] <zequence> OvenWerks: We haven't really discussed changing the desktop at all. I know some people are wanting to do that, but that would be in contrast with the idea that we base our DE and settings entirely on existing packages
[20:41] <zequence> In which case, we would do no customization at all
[20:41] <zequence> The whole idea with Ubuntu Studio is after all to work on anything, not just our own setup
[20:41] <OvenWerks> Ok. I can live wit5h that
[20:42] <zequence> I'm not against us having a default DE setup though. 
[20:43] <OvenWerks> If we do I would like to make sure there is nothing that slows down productivity
[20:43] <zequence> That sort of stuff is so personalö
[20:44] <zequence> I think the menu is already doing the biggest job in enhancing productivity
[20:44] <zequence> would be nice to have better controls for audio, and that is a goal for ubuntustudio-controls
[20:44] <OvenWerks> Some of it is... and those thing should be left alone in some sort of sane "everyone does it this way" default
[20:46] <OvenWerks> There are two things that right now I feel can get in the way. In particular of new users
[20:46] <OvenWerks> Having the scroll wheel skip through desktops is one.
[20:47] <OvenWerks> To someone coming from the normal world where extra desktops don't exist... It can be disturbing to ones workflow
[20:48] <zequence> Today having multiple workspaces is becoming standard
[20:48] <zequence> on IOS and android, so I don't fully agree there
[20:48] <zequence> Even OSX does it these days
[20:49] <zequence> I can agree on that the expected behaviour of double clicking the top panel of a window is to make it maximized, and so it is on many DEs
[20:49] <OvenWerks> The person not used to it, scrolling on the focused window, all of a sudden finds themselves transported to a blank screen.
[20:51] <zequence> It's a nice feature I think. Would be better in that case to prepare a short introduction to the desktop, when first logging in
[20:51] <OvenWerks> Ok we can make a title bar double click do that...  it was doing a "rollup".
[20:52] <zequence> On XFCE, the rollup is traditional, is it not?
[20:52] <OvenWerks> I'll check what the current default is
[20:52] <OvenWerks> OK, but what do we want?
[20:53] <zequence> Let's add those suggestions to the -desktop blueprint
[20:53] <zequence> or, -default-settings
[20:54] <OvenWerks> Someone coming from a windows audio environment already has to learn linux audio and apps, do they need to learn a totally new DE as well?
[20:54] <zequence> madeinkobaia has some rather radical ideas for a Ubuntu Studio theme, and he's probably also intrested in looking at changing the DE
[20:55] <OvenWerks> Ok, maybe he is the better one to do it then
[20:55] <OvenWerks> Should we include Writer by default?
[20:55] <zequence> I don't think one person should decide everything. It's best to have some discussion about the whole direction we want to go towards
[20:56] <OvenWerks> right now we just have an installer and it installes all of libreoffice
[20:56] <zequence> Yes, I think it would make sense to include LibreOffice, but let's not decide that now. 
[20:57] <zequence> The proper way would be for someone to pick up the entire publishing workflow, and do research, list applications, and make decisions based on that
[20:57] <OvenWerks> Kubuntu include Loffice, but it is not on the iso, it is downloaded/installed on install to disk.
[20:58] <OvenWerks> Do we have people to do that?
[21:30] <zequence> OvenWerks: Sure. Us :)
[21:30] <zequence> I personally have other priorities before I would get to that