[09:58] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> Remember.. http://xkcd.com/838/
[10:12] <Myrtti> so now the new Sputnik is official
[10:12] <Myrtti> http://bartongeorge.net/2013/11/15/introducing-sputnik-3-and-its-unofficial-big-brother/
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: WANT.. but I just got an XPS12 (with the rotating screen)
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> well, $employer did, for me.
[10:15] <brobostigon> when you hit more, at the bottom of google now, and it says, not available, what does that meant to mean?
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it doesn't have more cards to show you for your current location/time
[10:16] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, because it isnt entirly clear.
[10:16] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: (like "photo spots", sports statistics for your favorite teams, etc.)
[10:17] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep. it seems to think i am only interested in the weather all the time,
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if you put appointments into your Google calendar, and add locations to them, they'll start showing up
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I get "You need to leave now!" popups even :)
[10:18] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, that they do.
[10:18] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i do aswell, for example before i have a drum lesson.
[11:14] <MartijnVdS> http://www.itchyfeetcomic.com/2013/11/to-fault.html#.UoilG0rujAQ
[11:27] <ali1234> hmm ok so click frameworks = an empty file with whatever framework you want to announce you have
[11:27] <ali1234> that's kind of cheezy, but whatever
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Apache Click?
[11:28] <ali1234> no ubuntu click
[11:31] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:32] <bigcalm> Anybody know how to correctly use the wifi connection of a laptop from Virtual Box?
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> transparently?
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> or NATted?
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> because that second option works out of the box for me
[11:34] <bigcalm> Okay, I'll try it on the 1st adaptor
[11:34] <bigcalm> NAT or NAT network?
[11:37] <bigcalm> Starting an ubuntu server in vbox on a windows host shows "Waiting for network configuration...       Waiting up to 60 more seconds for network configuration..."
[11:38] <bigcalm> That's with NAT as the 1st adaptor
[11:39] <bigcalm> Oh, despite that, the vm is able to connect to the outside world :)
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I've only use virtualbox with vagrant really
[11:58] <bigcalm> Somewhat regretting naming the vm "iain-laptop-ubuntu-server"
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> ilus!
[11:59] <bigcalm> Heh, why didn't I think of that?
[11:59] <MartijnVdS> also, ~/.ssh/config to the rescue
[11:59] <bigcalm> Can one rename a machine easily?
[12:00] <penguin42> yeh
[12:00] <penguin42> bigcalm: Update /etc/hostname and check your /etc/hosts - it's got a reasonable chance
[12:00] <bigcalm> That all? Oh :)
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> well that + a reboot
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> ob
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> v
[12:04] <bigcalm> Eee, that worked :)
[12:05] <bigcalm> ilus sounds quite nice now
[12:05] <MartijnVdS> illustrious, almost
[12:06] <penguin42> bigcalm: Watch out for anything too odd, but that should be fine
[12:07] <MartijnVdS> you could grep for the old hostname in /etc
[12:09] <bigcalm> In the name of ssh keys
[12:09] <MartijnVdS> that's not a problem
[12:12] <bigcalm> Now grepping the whole file system. This may take some time
[12:12] <MartijnVdS> nothing out /etc should break things
[12:12] <MartijnVdS> outside of*
[12:12] <bigcalm> Okay
[12:13] <bigcalm> Loads in my home dir :(
[12:13] <bigcalm> Hopefully just cache files
[12:21] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ~/.bitcoin -> cash files
[12:21] <bigcalm> ;)
[13:41] <Myrtti> aw my gawd, Cooking with Dog on Google+ \o/
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: http://www.recipesource.com/ethnic/asia/filipino/00/rec0001.html ?
[13:42] <Myrtti> obviously not
[13:42] <Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/+cookingwithdog/
[13:43] <Myrtti> love the graphics
[13:44] <MartijnVdS> It's called "Cooking with dog" but it's not about recipes with "dog" as an ingredient?!
[13:52] <DJones> Clicking the link, I was expecting it to something involving "Dog The Bounty Hunter", probably involving BBQ's & beer
[14:04] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: thatsthejoke.mpg
[14:06] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: the joke is unfunny.
[14:19] <dubac0_> anyone here know how to make Swedish buns for Lucia
[14:42] <Myrtti> dubac0_: http://www.food.com/recipe/saint-lucia-buns-lussekatter-saffron-buns-43784 ?
[15:22] <penguin42> AlanBell: Just checking, you do know about CPC don't you?
[15:23] <daftykins> what about CPC :O
[15:25] <penguin42> daftykins: I hate to think how much AlanBell would spend buying all the bits for his Pi from Maplin
[15:26] <daftykins> oic
[15:26] <penguin42> daftykins: and how many Maplins he would have to go to to find 32 of something, probably at least 33
[15:26] <bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
[15:26] <daftykins> hahaha
[15:26] <daftykins> when i was tempted i just went on amazon
[15:30] <AlanBell> penguin42 yes maplin is just good for seeing components in person
[15:34]  * penguin42 is a bit knackered today after walking around Cam and London yesterday
[15:35] <daftykins> :D
[15:35] <daftykins> penguin42: anything special going down there?
[15:35] <penguin42> daftykins: Just met up with a friend and had a look around Cam, not had a chance to look around it before
[15:35] <daftykins> cool - no i've never been
[15:36] <daftykins> i hear it has a lot more character than most places i've been in England
[15:36] <daftykins> Oxford, too
[15:36] <penguin42> yes it's quite nice, leafy and lots of bits of architecture
[15:36] <penguin42> https://plus.google.com/photos/+DavidAlanGilbert/albums/5947203234131498673 are my pics
[15:37] <penguin42> did 3 or 4 of the museums
[15:37] <daftykins> if i lived somewhere like that i'd like to give kiyaking a bit of a go :)
[15:38] <penguin42> haha along the Cam?
[15:39] <penguin42> but it was a bit of a long day; 6:35am train from Manc to London, bounce off London to Cam, then back to London, bit of a walk around that and then back on 6:40pm train, so go out about 5:30am and get back up about 9:30pm - yawn!
[15:41] <daftykins> cor! how long is the London train?
[15:43] <penguin42> 2h10 to London, about 45min to Cambridge, a bit longer in reverse in both directions
[15:43] <daftykins> ah not too bad
[15:43] <penguin42> nod, pity we're not going to see HS2 in any sane timescale
[15:43] <daftykins> i found it quite amusing that Gatwick -> Hastings is 90 mins, whilst the Brighton -> Gatwick express is 35
[15:44] <daftykins> HS2?
[15:44] <penguin42> High Speed 2 - the mythical high speed train network the government wants to build
[15:45] <penguin42> should cut Manc-London to 1hr, which frankly isn't that big an issue - but the fact it cuts Manc-other places where you bounce off London down is much more useful
[15:45] <daftykins> ah, i had not heard of this
[15:46] <penguin42> really? Oh they do keep you isolated there....
[15:46] <ali1234> yeah problem with HS2 is it reduces london-manchester by cutting out everywhere else
[15:47] <penguin42> ali1234: Well it does have Brum
[15:47] <ali1234> london to nottingham is supposedly reduced by half an hour
[15:47] <ali1234> but in reality it goes to a different station in the middle of nowhere which is like an hour from nottingham
[15:47] <penguin42> daftykins: Then I guess you'll also be unaware of the Big Blue Cock in London - https://plus.google.com/photos/118251468822440261663/albums/5385163491826366161/5947211789157882002
[15:47] <penguin42> ali1234: Ah, yeh not as useful
[15:48] <ali1234> london and manchester are the only two places i ever go
[15:48] <ali1234> so HS2 sucks
[15:48] <daftykins> penguin42: it's more me keeping me isolated :) i don't even particularly follow local news, because it's always about Jersey ¬_¬
[15:49] <penguin42> ali1234: Are they going to link that new station to the tram system there?
[15:49] <ali1234> i doubt it
[15:49] <daftykins> penguin42: hrmm hard to get any scale of said blue avian :D
[15:49] <ali1234> it will be a local train service
[15:49] <penguin42> daftykins: oh 10s of ft
[15:50] <penguin42> daftykins: 472cm apparently according to Wikipedia but it doesn't say in which direction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hahn/Cock
[15:51] <daftykins> :D
[15:54] <Myrtti> hmmmmmm ponder www.indiegogo.com/projects/mybells-the-smart-bells/x/5424084
[15:55] <Myrtti> I was just on Friday cursing the ninja post men
[15:56] <daftykins> are they hit-and-running at your place?
[15:57] <Myrtti> we got a tesco delivery and while I was packing the food away and popped the kettle on the ninjas had been and left a note with "neenerneener, we've got your parcel"
[15:57] <daftykins> =/
[15:57] <daftykins> i used to phone in and complain when they did that to me over here
[15:58] <daftykins> they seem to give you 15 seconds from knocking on the door
[15:58] <Myrtti> well our kettle is loud
[15:58] <daftykins> then the postie should've heard it :D
[15:58] <Myrtti> it's not the first time it happens, but I like the postie so I'm not grumbling too much
[15:58] <Myrtti> but a proper doorbell would help
[15:58] <daftykins> ah yes
[16:00] <Myrtti> indiegogo will be the death of me some day
[16:00] <Myrtti> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bond-a-modular-revolution-for-you-to-wear/x/5424084
[16:01] <daftykins> that's interesting
[16:01] <Myrtti> I've had moments I've wished something like that would exist so bad
[16:07] <penguin42> daftykins: So hmm, given that there are android watches, and the Samsung watch-add on thing, what's the point?
[16:09] <daftykins> not sure, i tend to have a bit of a dim view of these back-us-to-make-x websites - they must be churning so many more things directly into landfill :(
[16:09] <Myrtti> what I'm most eager to get in my hands is Beddit which dsample backed
[16:09] <penguin42> beddit?
[16:10] <Myrtti> sleep tracker
[16:10] <Myrtti> goes underneath the bedsheets instead of relying on a sensor on wrist or such
[16:10] <penguin42> oh ok, that is interesting, since I don't like anything touching my skin
[16:12] <daftykins> i installed one of those sleep monitor programs on my android phone but i've yet to try it out
[16:12] <daftykins> you leave the phone beside you so it can use the sensors to record your movement and so on
[16:12] <Myrtti> yeah, I had one like that for a long time
[16:13] <Myrtti> I always forgot to put it on
[16:13] <daftykins> :D
[16:14] <Myrtti> besides I often play podcasts with my phone and have a sleep timer that I can extend by shaking the phone
[16:14] <Myrtti> doing that messes with the sleep monitor programs
[16:15] <daftykins> ah
[16:15] <daftykins> my friends family are all into sleeping to music/something
[16:15] <daftykins> i can't deal with it personally - silence \o/
[16:16] <Myrtti> I've learnt to listen to stuff to cover the noises of a highrise apartment block plumbing and snoring ;-)
[16:17] <Myrtti> besides bed is the only place I have patience to listen to stuff
[16:18] <daftykins> yeah i struggle with that medium
[16:18] <daftykins> audio only - i can't just sit and focus :D
[16:18] <daftykins> but then trying to do other things at once invariably leads to missing something
[16:19] <daftykins> heh some people just went past and tried my door... "oops wrong one"
[16:20] <Myrtti> oh I should get ready for tonights thai buffet
[16:20] <daftykins> mmm thai food
[16:52]  * DJones Decides never to support anybody who's using a Win 8 machine, it takes 8 hours from 1st switch on to get it up-to-date and thats before installing useful software like LibreOffice, Pidgin, Thunderbird, Dropbox etc
[16:55] <ali1234> how is that different to any version of windows?
[16:56] <DJones> Its not, but its the 1st time I've come across Win 8, that just seems longer
[16:56] <dogmatic69> got a couple chickens today \o/
[16:57] <penguin42> this isn't AlanBell's fault is it?
[16:57] <dogmatic69> nope :D
[16:57] <dogmatic69> just want some fresh eggs
[16:59] <dogmatic69> penguin42: getting a 'chicken cam' might be though...
[18:04] <isleofmandan> Can anyone tell me where Unity launcher items are kept? I'm trying to find out what command is run when I click on a certain launcher.
[18:18] <isleofmandan> Found what I was after in /usr/share/applications
[18:54] <GentileBen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQekFkgpFJs lmfao
[18:55] <GentileBen> "UPDATE: Ubuntu Causes Girl To Drop Out of College "
[18:57] <GentileBen> "She says Linux fans started harassing her on Facebook"
[18:57] <GentileBen> Shame on you all!
[18:58] <ali1234> hah
[18:58] <ali1234> is that for real?
[19:04] <directhex> sounds like the linux community to me
[19:04] <ali1234> yeah
[19:04] <ali1234> well
[19:05] <ali1234> The fact that the woman quit "not one but two semesters of college  because things didn't 'just work' tells me that there is more to this  story than just Ubuntu," Slashdot blogger Mhall119 added. "Others will  no doubt go on about how all of her 'problems' weren't actually problems  with Ubuntu, but a lack of understanding on her part," Mhall119 told  LinuxInsider.
[19:07] <ali1234> i just can't understand why i never heard about this back when it happened
[19:07] <directhex> i heard it & was unsurprised by it
[19:08] <ali1234> i'm guessing the usual suspects tried to spin it as "look at how the linux community hates women"
[19:09] <ali1234> rather than the far more accurate "look at how the linux community hates idiots"
[19:11] <GentileBen> lol ali1234
[19:11] <GentileBen> She's an idiot for not knowing Ubuntu is terrible compared to Windows.
[19:11] <GentileBen> I'm guessing she needed MS Office and didn't want to waste her time with Wine.
[19:12] <ali1234> back in 2009 it actually was
[19:12] <GentileBen> It's not that the Linux and wider FOSS community hate women - it's just that almost all the educated female programmers go into, you know, well-paying jobs...
[19:13] <GentileBen> ali1234, nobody admitted that in 2009.
[19:13] <GentileBen> In 2017 you'll be saying, "Back in 2013 it actually was."
[19:13] <ali1234> i did
[19:13] <ali1234> horses for courses man
[19:14] <GentileBen> You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him play checkers.
[19:14] <ali1234> anything which i would recognise as linux will never be suitable for the average consumer
[19:14] <GentileBen> You don't recognise Android as Linux?
[19:14] <ali1234> depends on context
[19:14] <GentileBen> Linux's best bet to make some progress on the desktop is x86 Android.
[19:15] <GentileBen> And all it took was a corporate behemoth like Google....that's the story of FOSS right there.
[19:15] <ali1234> the bottom line is i don't care if linux ever becomes popular. actually, i would rather it didn't
[19:15] <GentileBen> It's almost always terrible unless it has a giant corporate benefactor.
[19:15] <GentileBen> The likes of Intel and IBM are what make Linux strong, not the coder in the basement.
[19:16] <GentileBen> ali1234, Android is already the world's most popular user-facing operating system.
[19:16] <ali1234> so?
[19:16] <GentileBen> So? The Linux Foundation should pour all their resources into Android x86.
[19:16] <ali1234> yeah i really couldn't care less about the LF either
[19:17] <GentileBen> Wow, you really aren't a Linux fan at all.
[19:17] <ali1234> they can do whatever they like, it's their money
[19:17] <ali1234> as can canonical and google
[19:17] <GentileBen> Would you go hunting with Mark Shuttleworth?
[19:17] <GentileBen> Let's say he joins this channel and personally asks you to hunt elephants with him. Would you?
[19:17] <ali1234> do we eat the elephants after?
[19:18] <GentileBen> Yes, but there's too much meat so you parcel it up and send it to one of Oprah's schools.
[19:18] <ali1234> then yes
[19:19] <GentileBen> You're forgetting the real reason behind the hunt: so Shuttleworth can commission a solid ivory Ubuntu phone just for him.
[19:19] <ali1234> what's wrong with that?
[19:19] <GentileBen> If a style icon like Mark Shuttleworth is seen with a solid ivory phone, every African child will want one.
[19:19] <ali1234> i doubt that
[19:19] <GentileBen> The elephant population would dwindle as a result.
[19:25] <ali1234> but on the other hand, when am i ever going to get an opportunity like that again?
[19:45] <GentileBen> True.
[19:46] <GentileBen> Ok, but what if you had to choose between an elephant hunting tour with Mark Shuttleworth, a lion hunting tour with Andy Rubin, or a tiger hunting tour with RMS?
[19:47]  * penguin42 is sure Eric Raymond would be in there somewhere
[19:47] <GentileBen> I think I'd prefer Andy Rubin's company, but I suspect RMS would knock the tigers out with his feet smell.
[19:47] <GentileBen> Eric Raymond would be on the crocodile hunting tour, penguin42.
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> He's still online?!
[19:52] <directhex> android development is not open, and that's not healthy for linux
[19:54] <GentileBen> True. People don't seem to be able to differentiate between open source and open development.
[19:54] <ali1234> yeah that's something i have often complained about too
[19:54] <GentileBen> Why? Android is easily the best consumer Linux implementation.
[19:54] <GentileBen> Chrome OS does suck, however.
[19:54] <ali1234> sure
[19:55] <GentileBen> I'm still not sure why they didn't just put Android on their "Chromebooks".
[19:55] <directhex> different internal teams
[19:55] <ali1234> but a) i personally have no use for consumer linux and b) i think open source is more important than open development
[19:55] <directhex> android is already bad for linux
[19:55] <GentileBen> ali1234, I agree with the latter.
[19:55] <directhex> e.g. many devices have android drivers, not linux drivers
[19:56] <directhex> which is why many non-android mobile platforms use an android kernel, not a linux kernel
[19:56] <GentileBen> directhex, because it shows how stable, fully-featured and popular Linux can be when it isn't managed by a bunch of warring nerds who can't manage a project to save their lives?
[19:56] <penguin42> ali1234: I'm not sure - non-open development causes some problems; it doesn't trap a lot of the screw ups before they happen, and it seems to make me have less choice about what I get
[19:56] <penguin42> ali1234: But yes in principal if it's open source there is a chance to fix it
[19:56] <GentileBen> penguin42, the most important thing is that the code can be audited by anybody.
[19:56] <ali1234> consumer linux is rarely what i would describe as "fully-featured"
[19:56] <GentileBen> That's all that matters...not that some dumbass who thinks he's king can contribute to the project.
[19:56] <penguin42> GentileBen: But only when it's too late if it's not openly developed
[19:56] <directhex> GentileBen, nothing to do with those factors, everything to do with silicon vendors only caring about paying customers - if htc or samsung or sony are paying for support for their phones, they support the phone's kernel
[19:57] <ali1234> in fact selling anything to consumers usually means removing features so as not to confuse them
[19:57] <directhex> which is needlessly not linux compatible
[19:57] <GentileBen> ali1234, Android is fully-featured to the point where Apple are actively stealing features.
[19:57] <GentileBen> Actually Microsoft make more money from Android than Google do (directly, anyway).
[19:57] <GentileBen> MS convinced the handset makers that they need to pay a fee per handset sold, due to invisible patents.
[19:57] <ali1234> that's nice for consumers but i am not a consumer
[19:58] <GentileBen> directhex, Google have begun to address that issue anyway.
[19:58] <GentileBen> What can be recognised as "Android" is being forked and put into proprietary Google apps on the Play Store.
[19:59] <daftykins> crikey, Foxconn employees sabotaging Playstation 4's in protest, hundreds of consoles received DOA
[19:59] <ali1234> as long as these companies follow the licenses i don't care what they do
[19:59] <GentileBen> Next up: the gallery is being moved into Play, the keyboard has already, and so has Search and the new Launcher (though it's inactive in non-N5 devices).
[19:59] <GentileBen> daftykins, hundreds...haven't they shipped millions?
[20:00] <GentileBen> Every console can be traced back to the production line. Correlate shifts and you can start sacking people!! ^_^
[20:00] <ali1234> i love android, and i do recognise it as linux, but i would never consider replacing my desktop with an android system because it has literally none of the features that i need from a desktop OS
[20:00] <directhex> "sacking"
[20:00] <directhex> via the exit on the roof
[20:00] <brobostigon> dr who, sounds of the drums, bbc3, :)
[20:00] <GentileBen> ali1234, I guess that means you use Windows?
[20:00] <ali1234> why would i use a consumer OS like windows?
[20:00] <directhex> OS hipsters
[20:00] <directhex> we all use plan9, yes?
[20:00] <GentileBen> I guess that means you use Solaris?
[20:01] <ali1234> i have used solaris in the past
[20:01] <directhex> i'm an experienced solaris sysadmin
[20:01] <ali1234> i would take it over windows or apple
[20:01] <directhex> solaris is garbage by idiots
[20:01] <daftykins> GentileBen: ok so i'm unaware on exact numbers, so ignore that part.
[20:01] <directhex> it's moronic by default. every potentially stupid choice is there and stupid and default
[20:01] <daftykins> GentileBen: "nths arriving DOA" :D
[20:02] <directhex> e.g. /bin/sh as default interactive shell
[20:02] <ali1234> wait, my bad, i was thinking of irix
[20:02] <penguin42> directhex: talking of Solaris....
[20:02] <ali1234> though i'd still probaby take solaris over windows
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: at least it's not aix
[20:02] <penguin42> directhex: In Manc Picadilly I saw a PC running exceed showing train track info, whatever it was running was Openlook widgetry
[20:03] <directhex> i think this channel appears to be growing an excess of miserable gits, beyond our usual pet miserable git ali1234
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: the train track info screens in .nl all run some embedded Windows.. which crashes several times/year
[20:03] <ali1234> directhex: ha! pot is calling the kettle black...
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> (every time the XML they receive over GPRS over GSM-R is corrupt/times out)
[20:03] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: These aren't ones that users normally see, I was just there very early and the central info booth was closed, but they'd turned their screens around for other staff to see
[20:03] <directhex> i'm more of a dark grey
[20:04] <brobostigon> oh yes, i have seen several good pictures of such fails MartijnVdS
[20:05] <daftykins> a presentation PC in my supermarket always has a dialogue up saying there's a logmein update available
[20:06] <brobostigon> lol
[20:15] <GentileBen> MartijnVdS is just miserable because Holland drew with Japan, directhex.
[20:15] <GentileBen> 2-0 up but ended 2-2.
[20:16] <GentileBen> Almost as gutted as bashrc was when Alexis Sanchez scored his second.
[20:28] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: I came into an electronics store once at opening time, and they couldn't help me, because their system was running an update, for >1 hour. On a week day.
[20:30] <daftykins> =]
[20:30] <penguin42> was it a Tuesday......
[20:30] <daftykins> their "POS" system tee-hee
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: they never could get the hang of tuesdays?
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: in the end, they placed an order in their web shop, paid using the company card, and gave me the camera + lens 8-)
[20:31] <brobostigon> lol
[20:31] <penguin42> haha
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> (and they did the card stuff manually for me)
[20:32] <brobostigon> HHGTTG :) , i could neve rget a hang of *
[20:32]  * penguin42 is fairly sure that was a Thursday
[20:33] <brobostigon> :)
[20:33] <brobostigon> someone has read.
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> t-day
[20:34] <penguin42> brobostigon: Heard the radio series actually (multiple times) - I never read fiction (I did once start reading it, didn't get far)
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> any bakers here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGsrHe7HFAo
[20:35] <brobostigon> penguin42: i have several copies of the radio series, and several copies of the trilogy in 5 parts.
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> I have a full CD box set, and the big blue book
[20:36] <brobostigon> :)
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> and netflix (which has the 2000s film ;))
[20:36] <brobostigon> which isnt bad, but could have been better.
[20:37] <brobostigon> like trisha and arthur getting it on.
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> Alan Rickman! Martin Freeman! Mos Def! Zooey Deschanel! Stephen Fry!
[20:37] <brobostigon> werent meant to be there.
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> Bill Nighy! Sam Rockwell!
[20:37] <ali1234> i thought the movie was good
[20:38] <ali1234> you can't really complain that they changed the story when every version is different anyway
[20:38] <brobostigon> the best was marvin :)
[20:39] <ali1234> marvin was alan rickman right?
[20:39] <penguin42> brobostigon: I only have the CDs for the original two series, I have heard the later ones but didn't think as much of them
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: voice, yes.
[20:39]  * popey went to see the live radio show last year
[20:39] <ali1234> of course
[20:39] <brobostigon> ali1234: read douglas's adams's brief of it, it was only meant as he saw it, on the first book.
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: body was Warwick Davis
[20:39] <popey> oof http://www.hitchhikerslive.com/
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> Last-Modified: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 13:27:50 GMT
[20:40] <penguin42> brobostigon: One odd thing was that I never heard the 'christmas special' that linked the two series for many many years after hearing the original radio series - that did confuse things a little
[20:41] <brobostigon> penguin42: agreed, alittle.
[20:41] <popey> missed that
[20:41] <penguin42> popey: The one with the lift ?
[20:52] <ali1234> i think i cracked the problem of packaging raceworld: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6434137/
[20:54] <ali1234> Depends:libstdc++6,libfreetype6,libx11-6,libxt6,libxaw7,libxcb1,libsm6,libice6,libxext6,libxmu6,libxpm4,libxau6,libxdmcp6
[20:56] <penguin42> ali1234: Maybe try dpkg-depcheck
[20:57] <ali1234> isn;t that only useful for build dependencies?
[20:58] <ali1234> it lies anyway
[20:58] <penguin42> it does?
[20:58] <ali1234> lists packages that i'm shipping a local version of
[20:58] <ali1234> like zlib, which is compiled in
[20:59] <penguin42> you sure it's using the compiled in version?
[20:59] <ali1234> maybe not
[21:00] <ali1234> freetype is meant to be built in too
[21:00] <ali1234> hmm... it has the wrong so name
[21:06] <directhex> um... i am confuse
[21:06] <directhex> dh_shlibdeps generates the list of linked libraries, you Depends: ${shlib:Depends} in debian/control to use it
[21:06] <directhex> pointless binary dependencies are due to the lack of --as-needed flag to ld
[21:06] <directhex> unlike with .net assemblies, .so libraries will include everything you link to, whether a symbol is really used/needed or not
[21:07] <directhex> using ldd for this will not account for private versions
[21:07] <directhex> since it's a really really dumb way to do it
[21:08] <ali1234> `Depends' field, invalid package name `${shlib': must start with an alphanumeric character
[21:08] <directhex> ok, what the $expletive are you *doing* here?
[21:10] <ali1234> making a binary deb
[21:11] <ali1234> the 'grep usr' accounts for private libraries, since they aren't in usr, they're in ./lib which is set in RPATH
[21:11] <directhex> why are you badly reinventing a hundredth of debhelper?
[21:11] <ali1234> because literally none of the debian package tools have proper documentation
[21:12] <ali1234> as a result it's impossible to know what they do, or what they are supposed to do
[21:12] <directhex> christ
[21:12] <directhex> ok, just...
[21:13] <directhex> read https://wiki.debian.org/IntroDebianPackaging
[21:14] <ali1234> i have done
[21:14] <ali1234> it's not relevant to binary debs
[21:15] <directhex> it really is
[21:15] <ali1234> no it isn't. there is no upstream source.
[21:15] <directhex> the only difference when your source is binaries is you have an empty override_dh_make: rule
[21:15] <directhex> that's the ONLY difference. you skip the build step.
[21:16] <ali1234> this simply produces a lot of files which need to be maintained, but do nothing
[21:17] <directhex> ... quite
[21:20] <directhex> are you calling "ar" by hand to generate the .deb too?
[21:21] <ali1234> no, i just dpkg-deb -b
[21:23] <directhex> the most glaring technical issue with the 9 lines of "packaging" you've shared is it doesn't account for versioning
[21:24] <directhex> for example, your package will not work with libfreetype 6 <2.4.0, but your dependencies would be satisfied
[21:24] <directhex> these details are encoded in .shlibs files in /var/lib/dpkg/info
[21:24] <directhex> which are parsed when dh_shlibdeps generates the dependencies of the packaged binaries
[21:25] <directhex> or libx11-6 < 2:1.6.0
[21:26] <ali1234> how do you know it wouldn't work?
[21:28] <directhex> you can add symbols between versions of a library without changing the soname. you aren't scanning for symbol use to determine *precise* requirements, and you aren't using shlibs to determine presumed package-maintainer-says-abi-is-bumped requirements
[21:28] <directhex> you're just saying "herp derp these libs have the same filename! :D"
[21:28] <ali1234> package name, but yes
[21:36] <mindlesstaboo> Can someone help me please? i am experiencing some problems with ubuntu
[21:37] <mindlesstaboo> Basically a few of my Fn keys wont release, after i press this key for example it is the volume with Fn key, it goes all the way up or down and the keyboard locks.
[21:39] <mindlesstaboo> I think this may be linked to the file 60-keyboard.hwdm
[21:39] <mindlesstaboo> 60-keyboard.hwdb*
[21:44] <mindlesstaboo> Anyone at all?