[17:13] <Pwnna> how can i develop xfce-panel on xubuntu?
[17:13] <Pwnna> can i replace my current panels to test?
[18:51] <ali1234> Pwnna: just install it to /usr/local
[18:52] <ali1234> you also need to rebuild any external plugins
[19:30] <knome> Pwnna, what are you trying to do? if you are working with indicators, please note we're planning to include the patch that supports gtk3 indicators for trusty
[19:30] <Pwnna> nothing major
[19:30] <Pwnna> just some stuff with  the window buttons
[19:30] <Pwnna> indicators are still broken.
[19:31] <Pwnna> knome: is there like a roadmap for 14.04?
[19:31] <ali1234> Pwnna: are you the person from the mailing list?
[19:31] <Pwnna> ye
[19:31] <knome> !roadmap
[19:31] <knome> like that?
[19:31] <Pwnna> wait
[19:31] <Pwnna> ali1234: which person?
[19:31] <ali1234> shuhao?
[19:32] <Pwnna> yea
[19:33] <ali1234> ok, it was me that replied
[19:33] <Pwnna> oh
[19:33] <Pwnna> yeah
[19:33] <Pwnna> idk if installing to usr/local is a good iea
[19:33] <ali1234> it's the standard way tog o if you want to work on upstream
[19:34] <Pwnna> i want to maybe spin up a VM
[19:34] <ali1234> you can also patch the package, but it's less useful if you want to send patches
[19:34] <Pwnna> yeah
[19:34] <Pwnna> of course
[19:34] <Pwnna> i just don't like make install
[19:34] <ali1234> yeah that's a fairly good idea
[19:34] <Pwnna> virtualbox or kvm?
[19:34] <ali1234> whichever you prefer
[19:34] <ali1234> i find virtualbox easier
[19:35] <Pwnna> should i work with 14.04?
[19:36] <ali1234> i'm not sure if that is even possible yet
[19:37] <ali1234> if you're going to work on git anyway, it doesn't really matter
[19:37] <Pwnna> yeah
[19:37] <Pwnna> ali1234: what about xfwm4?
[19:37] <Pwnna> like. do i have to keep login logout to see my make install working?
[19:37] <ali1234> no
[19:37] <Pwnna> and how do i restart panels?
[19:37] <ali1234> you just run xfce4-panel -r
[19:37] <ali1234> same for xfdesktop and xfwm4
[19:38] <Pwnna> i have to make install everytime, though?
[19:38] <ali1234> yes
[19:38] <Pwnna> yeah
[19:38] <ali1234> well, xfwm4 you can run from it's source dir
[19:39] <ali1234> not sure about -panel
[19:39] <Pwnna> ali1234: that fails with the configurations
[19:39] <ali1234> sometimes you need to do --replace
[19:39] <Pwnna> xfwm4 just don't detect my configurations.. and then it doesn't even have window borders
[19:39] <Pwnna> or title bars
[19:39] <ali1234> i'm running xfwm4 and xfce4-panel both in /usr/local
[19:39] <Pwnna> if i run xfwm4 in the src dir, that is
[19:39] <ali1234> you might need to build libxfce4ui and install that too
[19:40] <ali1234> this is how we currently build custom panel with gtk3 indicators: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/Gtk3Indicators
[19:41] <Pwnna> yeah
[19:42] <Pwnna> ali1234: is it possible to run everything from xfce from upstream?
[19:42] <ali1234> sure, if you build it all and install it
[19:42] <Pwnna> ali1234: i mean. you guys have to do that for packaging, right?
[19:42] <Pwnna> i just never know how to do it
[19:43] <ali1234> packaging is a totally different mess
[19:43] <Pwnna> i want to help maintain XFCE stuff, but like.. can't get it to run on my machien ..
[19:43] <Pwnna> what do you mean?
[19:43] <ali1234> packaging kinda depends on xfce doing a release tarball
[19:43] <ali1234> packages aren't made directly from git, usually, and it presents some additional problems
[19:43] <Pwnna> ah..
[19:44] <ali1234> more than that, i don't know... i just submit patches upstream and wait for them to get released and packaged
[19:45] <ali1234> your lack of window borders with xfwm4 might be due to it not finding the theme
[19:46] <ali1234> it should fall back to a default though, i think
[19:46] <Pwnna> yeah
[19:46] <Pwnna> but whatever
[19:46] <Pwnna> i'm gonna do this in a VM
[19:46] <Pwnna> ali1234: my problem is some project just don't take patches
[19:46] <Pwnna> like.. mousepad
[19:46] <ali1234> did you just post the patches on the bugzilla?
[19:46] <ali1234> cos nobody seems to really check that
[19:47] <knome> (also many xfce developers are really busy or unavailable)
[19:47] <ali1234> yes, both of them :)
[19:47] <Pwnna> i posted patches and mailed >_>
[19:47] <Pwnna> my patches has been sitting there for months
[19:47] <Pwnna> i kinda wanna take over maintainance of some projects, like the screenshooter.
[19:47] <Pwnna> but i don't understand the code enough to do it
[19:48] <Pwnna> it's really diffiicult to read code without some sort of mentorship from the original author.. i find.
[19:48] <Pwnna> just takes a long time
[19:48] <ali1234> yes. it takes experience to be able to do that
[19:48] <ali1234> the xfce code is quite simple though, compared with something like gnome or kde
[19:49] <Pwnna> yeah i and i don't usually do C
[19:49] <Pwnna> that's one of the main problems i find
[19:49] <Pwnna> are new programs for xfce written in Vala now?
[19:49] <ali1234> not really. there's a couple
[19:50] <ali1234> but the core stuff is all C
[19:52] <Pwnna> yeah
[19:52] <Pwnna> i wish i knew C better
[19:52] <Pwnna> only wrote simple C programs, and fiddled with mousepad a bit
[19:52] <Pwnna> there's no full time developers on XFCE, right?
[19:52] <ali1234> i don't know
[19:57] <Noskcaj> Pwnna, Not really. Even the project leader lacks time
[19:58] <Pwnna> yeah..
[19:59] <knome> olivier has been away for a long time.
[19:59] <knome> and no, nobody is paid to work on xfce even part-time
[20:02] <Pwnna> ..
[20:04] <Pwnna> yay
[20:04] <Pwnna> installing from the trusty image
[20:05] <Pwnna> has xfce participated in summer of code?
[20:05] <knome> afaik, no
[20:05] <Pwnna> should :3
[20:06] <knome> nobody has time to do the mentoring
[20:06] <ali1234> ...yeah
[20:08] <Pwnna> ...
[21:47] <ochosi> brainwash: ok, bug marked as fix released. thanks
[21:47] <ochosi> pleia2: thanks for following that up!
[21:47] <pleia2> I did something? :D yay me
[21:48] <ochosi> you said you'd follow the ones with missing license up, so i presumed that's good :)
[21:49] <pleia2> oh yes, I emailed the folks who don't have licenses
[21:49] <pleia2> no response :\ but I tried
[21:49] <knome> one of the updated the page
[21:49] <knome> at least...
[21:49] <pleia2> oh good
[21:49] <ochosi> yeah, that's something
[21:49] <ochosi> and it's a weekend, so maybe tomorrow
[21:50] <pleia2> and since updating the page all the images have license defined
[21:50] <knome> just a note to this channel as well, i've been removing uploaded files that haven't been (relatively shortly) listed into the page
[21:57] <pleia2> thanks
[21:58] <knome> no problem
[22:06] <pleia2> thinking we might want to do the flickr route with wallpapres next cycle, this wiki page takes about 5 years to load now
[22:08] <knome> heh
[22:08] <ochosi> pleia2: yeah, we discussed it before and i was kinda doubtful of the wiki
[22:08] <knome> tbh we've had a much better response to this call than we've had on the dA group
[22:08] <ochosi> but so far at least the licenses are mostly there...
[22:08] <ochosi> less messy in a way
[22:08] <ochosi> cause it's more effort
[22:08] <knome> i'm subscribed to Xubuntu/*, i will keep watching the submissions
[22:09] <knome> for now, i don't mind