=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/19/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html === jono is now known as ubuntu-goldfish [04:25] hey everyone! [06:08] hello [14:39] balloons: hi [14:39] balloons: have you found a new Headset/Mic? :D [14:40] I have quite the setup, but google doesn't like the mic [14:40] so it seems [14:40] how are you amjjawad ? [14:41] Oh, that is not good to know :/ [14:41] Well, I finally slept more than 3 hours at night :D [14:41] So, I guess I am ready for the meeting [14:41] shall we test the voice quality if you wish? === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | QA Community Workflows | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/21981/community-1311-quality-defining-workflows/ [15:00] ok hangout info is up, for whomever wants to be a part [15:00] I'll follow by irc =) [15:02] hello [15:02] Hi [15:02] Hasn't started yet [15:04] cragdor: it should start in 1 minute. [15:05] Starting now............. [15:05] Drat missed [15:05] hello everyone [15:05] balloons: is having tech issues with his internet [15:05] hello amjjawad [15:05] cgoldberg: hi :) [15:06] just a moment my friends, sorry for the delay :-) [15:06] we were testing the hangout and there is a huge delay [15:06] tyt balloons [15:06] NP [15:06] Your hangout is hanging?? [15:07] it hasn't started here. [15:07] there is delay guys [15:07] the voice reach after one min :D [15:07] hopefully we start soon :) [15:08] * chilicuil goes for some milk + cookies [15:11] Can i sit now, i've been standing for a while now?! [15:11] :) [15:11] cragdor: have a seat, please :P [15:12] Let's talk via IRC for the moment while I work on this [15:12] ok [15:12] I'm terribly sorry [15:12] no it is fine [15:12] it happens [15:12] IRC FTW [15:13] ok, so welcome to the session on QA Community roles :- [15:13] check out the pad for the agenda [15:13] basically, let's talk about the new roles that have been created, and go through the ideas and questions.. any feedback is good, etc [15:14] balloons: I will hold my hope high waiting for the Hangout :D [15:14] so will keep my notes for now if that is okay [15:14] the big piece is to get some more work items around expanding the concept of roles and trying to make it easier for everyone to connect with and contribute to ubuntu quality [15:14] while waiting to go live, I'd like to share this with all: [15:14] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntugnome-qa [15:15] are those roles gonna have their own lp groups or it'll be just a local distintion?, to make diferent wiki sections or somethink like that? [15:15] Isn't hangout working? [15:15] AlbertoSN, sadly at the moment no, so we're on IRC [15:15] Ou... [15:15] balloons: has sent an email on the QA Mailing List some months ago and I decided to be the driver for a focus group to find more testers and well, I guess Ubuntu GNOME QA Team has done a successful job :) [15:16] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntugnome-qa [15:16] chilicuil, the roles are going to be local distinction imho [15:16] I don't see a need for different wiki sections [15:16] +1 no need for new Wiki or LP accounts [15:17] this is waste of time and resources IMHO [15:17] launchpad groups are good if the teams need specific access to LP features though [15:18] knome: yes, but everyone can be part of one LP area better than dividing them :) [15:18] amjjawad, i think you are missing my point [15:18] for two years, I guess I have seen the good side and the bad side of having so many sub-teams [15:18] where is the video? [15:19] knome: I'd be very glad to know your point better :D [15:19] for context for anyone who hasn't seen the page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Roles/ [15:19] ali1234: we are having tech issue so hope we go live soon [15:19] * balloons is going live [15:19] reload the page [15:20] working :) [15:20] Ouuu [15:20] Yes [15:20] I didnt see the video window [15:20] only chat [15:20] balloons: nothing here :/ [15:20] live here [15:20] balloons, i can see you. [15:20] :P [15:21] balloons: Waiting for people to join this video call... [15:21] where is the link? [15:21] oh ok, link plz balloons [15:21] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if4Tm5O9-Ws [15:21] http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/21981/community-1311-quality-defining-workflows/ [15:21] if you want to join: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpio1bovoaf61p6gt5i29hps?authuser=0&hl=en [15:23] Sorry, I'm unable to speak at this time; since people is sleeping [15:23] But latter [15:24] did AlbertoSN just bark? ;) [15:24] Nou [15:25] My mic is muted [15:25] i'm just kidding [15:25] :P [15:25] that was my dog, hah [15:25] balloons: can you hear me? [15:25] me neither [15:26] balloons: sorry link again :P [15:26] I think those roles are enough [15:26] I can say I recently read the wiki, and it looks very well to me [15:27] about the mentorship process I'm not sure, that's a good idea, however I've seen a lot of previous attemps not only in the qa community and all of them had failed, so I wonder whether this new attempt will be sucessfully [15:27] balloons: link please :D [15:27] amjjawad, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpio1bovoaf61p6gt5i29hps?authuser=0&hl=en [15:28] +1 for better (video) tutorials [15:28] having to commit to something might scare off some mentors. [15:28] so +1 for informal stuff [15:29] can't hear ali, but can see him opening his mouth [15:30] Yes, video is laggy [15:30] network problem [15:30] yeah [15:30] balloons: [15:30] the internet is so bad :( [15:30] Not mine [15:30] video = unintelligible [15:30] balloons: there is delay [15:31] I'm so sorry to be unable to talk: I'll try now not making so much noise. [15:31] amjjawad, I'm sorry [15:31] video is very skippy for balloons yes [15:31] yes [15:31] heere as well [15:31] balloons: too bad :( [15:31] DO you hear me? [15:31] Video is frozen [15:31] anything can be done at all? [15:31] frozen here too [15:32] here the sma [15:32] same* [15:32] sounds like balloons was inside a metallic tube [15:32] Yesss [15:32] Metalic sound [15:32] freezing, and robotic [15:32] Nou [15:32] something from the Kubuntu side of things, the current test cases for ISO's don't really make sense, so we made https://trello.com/b/sdTmhD0H/14-04-deadlines [15:32] which has regressions we've experienced in the past [15:33] balloons: yep, still choppy [15:33] audio is choppy [15:33] if you're asking "is this any better?": no, it's still awful [15:33] does the audio come through? [15:33] balloons: nop [15:33] balloons, barely [15:33] nothing at all [15:33] i cant understand a word [15:33] elopio: say something [15:33] audio comes through but it is impossible to tell what you are saying, you sound like peanuts [15:33] wow hangouts playing nasty today [15:33] someone other than balloons in the hangout, say something [15:34] yes for what?? :D [15:34] can you hear the other participants in the hangouts? [15:34] whoever just said "yes", sounds ok :) [15:34] let's keep going on IRC then. I'll type [15:34] yes :) [15:34] so, in summary, current roles are fine and seem well documented. No other feedback here? [15:35] AlbertoSN, yep! [15:35] we won't add a new mentorship role, but will encourage it to happen amongst the team informally [15:35] javier liked the idea of doing videos -- anything specific you'd like to see? [15:35] I can't hear anyone :P [15:35] ah [15:35] except Nicholas [15:35] everyone use AlbertoSN's mic to speak [15:36] balloons, i think it would be a good idea to ask around a bit who might be willing to help with mentoring [15:36] So? [15:36] Do you hear me? [15:36] ok, hangout is off [15:36] ugh... hangout is totally gone now [15:36] balloons, I missed some at the start but i like the sound of javier's idea of video's. [15:36] So what shall be done? [15:36] can anyone hear me? [15:36] yeah, more step by step tutorials for everything with subtitles [15:36] Nou [15:37] balloons: you sounded like GLaDOS [15:37] did you just broke the mic? [15:37] nah, glados is intelligible [15:37] balloons: video lagging [15:37] javier == chilicuil ?? (can't remember :-\ ) [15:37] DanChapman, yes [15:37] oh bad [15:37] there is no hangout [15:38] ok, so let's cover the remaining ideas [15:38] balloons, thanks [15:38] I personally will like to see more autopilot, autopkg ones, however it would be good to have more about basically any qa related topic [15:38] dobey-uds: oh, sorry. [15:38] chilicuil, et la, is intro to each role video useful? [15:39] now it's off air, so I can't send my greetings to you. [15:39] yes sorry about the hangout :-) [15:40] i'd prefer simple/low-level ones over more complex subjects on the videos [15:40] balloons: I don't think so, the wiki descriptions seems enough for me, however we could clasify videos and resources depending of the audience target, this for testers, those for writers, those for developers [15:40] elopio: no, it's jut that only balloons was talking and i wanted other people to talk to see if the problem was google, or balloons :) [15:41] chilicuil, knome noted, thank you [15:41] Go http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/21981/community-1311-quality-defining-workflows/ again and see a surprise [15:41] anyone else any comments on videos? [15:41] slow pace! [15:41] The video was uploaded, incompleted [15:42] balloons: how about one last try? [15:42] don't rush with it; if you're taking the time to do a video, make sure it's slow enough so everybody can follow it [15:42] you reboot everything and let's try one last time? [15:42] knome, noted :-) [15:42] (and subtitles in the video help) [15:42] knome, subtitles in english? [15:42] i could possibly help with some editing if we want some fancy intro sections (or do we have such already) [15:42] yep, subtitles in english [15:43] what areas are we wanting to do videos on? [15:43] DanChapman: basic tasks [15:43] like? [15:43] to attract newcomers [15:43] is there videos for the most basic iso/package testing? [15:43] "how to report a bug" [15:43] knome: yes [15:43] "how to report a test" [15:43] "how to pick a test you want to run" [15:43] "how to help debug/triage bugs" [15:43] the very basic tasks [15:43] knome, ack thanks [15:43] I'd also like to see more conection between the ubuntu qa community and the ubuntu +1 forums, I think we could grab fast some more collaborators if we could post specifically there more often [15:43] the idea was to make sure everything in the expanded roles section has a video [15:44] so that anyone with no previous experience can watch and learn :) [15:44] so knome specifically, not everything you mentioned exists atm [15:44] i don't think too many developers need videos [15:45] knome, noted.. short, simple, basic stuff [15:45] agree [15:45] I noted you offered to help :-) [15:45] something like "how to build testing tools for development" could work [15:45] but not complex issues like stuff on autopilot [15:46] text-based documentation is much more accessible on such things [15:46] ok, I also wanted to go over exploratory testing a bit [15:47] one of the goals this cycle is to have the community take ownership over what and how we test. We're encouraging everyone to do exploratory testing all the time.. is this clear to everyone? [15:47] no [15:48] so we need to clear that up then.. how can we communicate and clarify this? [15:48] what exactly do you mean by "the community"? [15:48] bye AlbertoSN.. sorry for the troubles :-) [15:48] Bye bya [15:49] sound is goof [15:49] *good [15:49] ali1234, I mean the qa community team [15:49] everyone here and everyone who's not here but helps test :-) [15:49] balloons, i would imagine people do exploratory testing already, but i'm not sure if people report bugs/issues as we want [15:50] knome, I agree. I would like to see people own bugs better and report them [15:50] to some extent I hope invoving the bugsquad helps with this [15:50] at least we have several people in a cycle send emails to our -devel mailing list telling they "tested xubuntu" and had played around with it; but can't see them having sent error or bug reports [15:50] there is a lot of ad hoc testing by people-at-large, but we do not currently have an easy way for the casual tester to report results [15:50] as a person who reports bugs as and when i find them during normal use, i find that i am being asked to do it a totally different way every 6 months and it is becoming a burden [15:51] for example 2 years ago it was enough to do an apport bug. now i'm being asked "oh, also do an iso test" or "oh, also write a test case" [15:51] ali1234, I'd like it to be enough to report a bug. I want to informalize how you find it [15:52] balloons, it is clear to me. But what about aswell as just saying 'all the time do a weekly call for testing' on the mailing list with an area to 'explore' for that week which will break some newcomers into what areas they should be exploring and an get an idea of how to get involved? === LordOfTime is now known as TheLordOfTime [15:54] DanChapman, it's an idea.. I assume over the course of a week people can accomplish something [15:54] it was my intent when we did cadence testing [15:54] we're at the end of the session. I think I'd like to talk about this again, so let's plan to do it. And continue the conversation [15:54] i think the area which needs clarifying is the priority an proportion of exploratory/general testing [15:54] i'll add it to another session or we'll talk on the list [15:54] knome, I agree.. I want to see this be clarified, easy to understand, and doable [15:54] eg. should one rather get a test done one or twice than do some exploratory testing [15:55] Well I'd like to see the general tests run, then exploratory testing [15:55] exploratory testing happens all the time whenever anyone is doing anything [15:55] so run the outlined tests at least once :-) but then go wild [15:55] half the bugs i find, i find them while investigating (or even attempting to report) another bug [15:55] and possibly write down some examples what exploratory testing can be and specify the goals (eg. report bugs that you wouldn't find with the regular testing) [15:55] balloons, for me, that clarifies it a lot [15:55] all good stuff.. I hate to cut this off. We'll chat again on this soon [15:56] * balloons copies out the conversation bits [15:56] balloons, another session sounds good [15:56] thanks everyone! [15:56] balloons, one last thing is that i think package testing helps a bit with exploratory testing [15:56] they are kind of directed to the same direction, fulfilling the same need [15:58] pleia2, o/ [15:59] brb to start the docs sessoin [15:59] yep === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Ubuntu Documentation Team Roundtable | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/21980/community-1311-docteam-roundtable/ [16:02] hey jjfrv8 :) [16:03] hi, knome [16:03] hi [16:03] is there supposed to be video? [16:03] starts at :05 :) [16:03] pmatulis: two minutes out ;) [16:03] gah [16:03] lets hope so... there were quite some problems with the hangouts during the last session [16:04] lemme send microwaves through my café [16:10] * knome pokes balloons [16:10] oh good, it's not just me :) [16:10] we're already 5 minutes in :( [16:10] sry' [16:12] fortunately it's the lunch break after this session so we're not that tight on time [16:12] so no vid [16:12] I have to get to work :\ [16:12] not yet at least [16:13] pleia2, have fun. i'll volunteer you for all the things nobody else wants to do as we agreed [16:13] haha [16:13] nah, I'm around for this session [16:13] bah ;) [16:13] just not hours into lunch ;) [16:13] lol [16:13] * knome prods balloons [16:13] maybe we just start this here in IRC? [16:14] fair [16:14] +1 [16:14] Yes, lets start [16:14] pleia2: Sounds good to me. [16:14] +1 [16:14] ok, topic 1: How we can improve the "getting started contributing" process [16:14] know which tasks need to be done. [16:14] sorry, can everyone see the session? [16:14] is anyone going to join? [16:14] we made improvements this cycle on at least getting some of our desktop contributor docs, so that's good [16:14] balloons, says "stand by" [16:15] balloons: we gave up :) [16:15] maybe someone has to join the session? [16:15] maybe balloons should share the link where people can try to join [16:16] why is there no vid? [16:16] the link is above the video window [16:16] hello? [16:16] I feel like no one is hearing my irc pings :-) [16:16] balloons, pong [16:16] bregma: I don't see a join link [16:17] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpjd70fft3117g2ln06viv8s?authuser=0&hl=en [16:17] join up: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpjd70fft3117g2ln06viv8s?authuser=0&hl=en [16:17] I see Please stand by. Starting soon.... [16:17] "Join the Hangout on Air" right above the video box ... you probably need to be logged in [16:17] i think you do [16:17] join the hangout and we'll start [16:17] the page doesn't show the link unless you've logged in apparently [16:17] ugh [16:17] * TheLordOfTime tested on chrome (logged in) and firefox (not logged in) [16:18] you need to join to see the video? wtf? [16:18] pmatulis, to see the "join the hangout" link. [16:18] k should be live [16:18] yep [16:18] just refresh the page if you still see "standby starting soon" [16:19] * gQuigs it's live for me [16:19] it's live now [16:19] pleia2, say something [16:19] there [16:19] ok, I can't run the session very well as it's quite noisy here [16:19] the main screen has a blue avatar thingy [16:20] I said I'd help with the session, specifically not run it :P [16:20] if someone else can walk through the agenda, we should be ready to roll [16:20] pleia2, just to test the voice works... [16:20] voice works [16:21] somebody pick up running the session [16:21] :) [16:22] thanks godbyk! [16:23] yeah, *we* should know what needs done first [16:23] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam [16:25] arghh, crosstalk [16:25] I hear every sentence twice. [16:25] I cann't seem to get onto the hangout. will continue... [16:26] a lot of echo, noise [16:26] Parbo: do you have the window open twice? [16:26] yes :( [16:26] ok now [16:27] we should look if we can merge some of the content across the different platforms [16:28] wow [16:28] this is not workable from my side [16:28] anyone else hearing everything twice? [16:29] pmatulis: Pause the YouTube video on the summit.ubuntu.com page. [16:29] godbyk: ha ha, gotcha [16:30] yeah, but there are also help.ubuntu.com and help.ubuntu.com/community [16:30] is help.ubuntu.com what's essentially installed/shipped in ubuntu? [16:30] oh, the pad answers that. [16:31] pad++ [16:31] so what's the primary documentation new contributors should start working with? [16:32] "nice long" ? [16:32] :P [16:32] I think it very inconvenient to work using bug reports [16:34] but the wiki is scarce and outdated. [16:34] peterm-ubuntu, exactly! [16:35] +1 for housekeeping [16:36] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag [16:36] tagging is okay, but the most important thing would be to have a good structure that's at all times visible on the wiki/pages [16:37] and take care of linking orphans or deleting them. [16:38] the community wiki could do with a similar navigation than xubuntu has in the main wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/ [16:41] Can you make the wiki a sandbox for new system doc content? [16:41] yep, either it's not documentation or it should be maintained by the doc team [16:41] the community wiki says: This is a reference for Ubuntu-related "Howtos, Tips, Tricks, and Hacks." [16:41] "community help wiki" I like that! [16:42] that's what it's called now :) [16:42] But it has the note : "Note that this is not the official documentation. " [16:42] nonetheless i think we need to clean it up and try to make it even a bit structured [16:42] Maybe we can make it bold or a header or something. [16:43] if something hasn't been updated in years (heck, pre-Unity), label it 'expired'? [16:44] if something is expired, delete it [16:45] delete.old.wiki.pages++ [16:46] OR [16:46] Ever heard of this team https://launchpad.net/~ubforums2ubwiki [16:46] yes, people need to use it and submit merge proposals [16:46] an update that the page *will be deleted* soon [16:48] We need to fix some GNOME issues [16:48] ... with the tools [16:49] see my notes in the blueprint page. Re developers don't help [16:49] have a link to the blueprint handy? if I open the summit page again it causes youtube chaos [16:50] Pleia2: See Links at bottom of screen [16:50] pleia2, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-1311-docteam-roundtable [16:51] knome: thanks [16:52] Newbie Q: Can blueprints that are scheduled for a release be shared with DocTeam? [16:53] workingwriter, what do you mean? === cyphermox_ is now known as cyphermox [16:55] So, if a particular feature is going to be included in a release (as opposed to something to be fixed down the line), can Docs be notified? [16:56] I'm sorry that I never figured out how to join the hangout... I tried the whole hour [16:57] dsmythies: login to the summit page first. then the link will show up for joining the specific hangout [16:57] I did [16:57] dsmythies: anything else to add? [16:57] (sorry you couldn't join :\) [16:57] workingwriter, yes that is what we hope to fix, but it's not so simple [16:57] My notes are all on the blueprint page, most of which we didn't get to [16:57] the devs aren't going to notify you directly :-) [16:58] any possibilities to turn desktop ans [16:58] server guide into latex guide [16:58] s [16:58] Start planning for Touch now! [16:58] Will this log be sent to the list? [16:58] printed like ubuntu manual ? [17:00] teolemon: we use mallard because that's what upstream gnome uses, I don't see us converting it all to latex [17:00] might be able to produce PDFs from mallard === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/community-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/19/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1.html [17:01] pleia2, everyone, sorry for the troubles at the start. Thanks for the session ;-) [17:01]