[15:01] <skellat> o/
[15:04] <dholbach> hey hey
[15:04] <karni> hey guys
[15:04] <karni> I can hear you, waiting for the video
[15:05] <dholbach> who wants to join in?
[15:05] <dpm> hi all!
[15:05] <skellat> dholbach: I'm available
[15:05] <dholbach> skellat, karni: want to join in? https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpjt7f417s88a1r34uiqoni4
[15:05] <karni> Thanks
[15:07] <dholbach> we take notes here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-appdev-1311-app-dev-schools-materials
[15:07] <dholbach> and please speak up if you want to get involved or have questions
[15:14] <karni> +1 on what dpm said
[15:19]  * skellat is running low on tea
[15:21] <skellat> Hello YoBoY
[15:21] <YoBoY> hi skellat
[15:21] <YoBoY> (hi everyone :))
[15:22] <dholbach> YoBoY, want to join in on the hangout?
[15:22] <YoBoY> nop, just login for later ^^" sorry
[15:22] <dholbach> ah ok :)
[15:54] <Vipindev> Hai, Even though there is topic difference, I have doubt, if I am just starting being a C++ programmer, how it be from Ubuntu, No documentation so far I got, help me.
[15:57] <karni> Vipindev: Regarding your question, c++ is a good start. We utilize that for Unity scopes and QML plugins. QML is fairly easy to learn, it's JavaScript'ish
[15:57] <karni> Vipindev: Although you won't be able to write an Ubuntu phone app from scratch in C++, I believe.
[15:58] <karni> We use QMl for the UI
[15:58] <karni> the front end. C++ for fleshing out the more interesting bits.
[16:01] <dpm> hi Vipindev, I think the easiest thing to start writing apps for Ubuntu is to use QML
[16:01] <dpm> Vipindev, you can certainly use C++, but at this point we're still building the documentation for C++ and trying to make it easier to cross-compile
[16:02] <dpm> Vipindev, so if you're just getting started, I'd recommend to look into QML first
[16:02] <dpm> Vipindev, http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/qml/
[16:03] <dholbach> starting in 3m: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22033/appdev-1311-tutorial-videos/
[16:03] <Vipindev> OK. Thank you for your kind information.
[16:05] <dholbach> does anyone want to join in?=
[16:05] <skellat> o/
[16:06] <dholbach> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpintgnk20a0m0mqe6q3llb0
[16:07] <dholbach> popey,  are you going to be in this session?
[16:07] <popey> yes, trying to join
[16:07] <popey> running another session
[16:08] <ali1234> yes we can hear you :)
[16:08] <dholbach> popey, gotcha
[16:09] <dholbach> previous session: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-appdev-1311-app-dev-schools-materials
[16:15] <ali1234> +1 you'll get more downtime hosting the videos yourself
[16:23] <winael> Hi talking about the subtitle module of youtube, it very difficult to use in public mode
[16:23] <winael> it's more easly to export subtitles on po and use launchpad
[16:24] <popey> yes, i think we'd use lp
[16:25] <winael> for What is Maas and What is Juju video I used LP and po2srt srt2po tools and it was just fantastic to use. Just the owner of the video must import subtitlles on youtube
[16:31] <ali1234> popey: use meld, not imagemagick
[16:32] <ali1234> melt sorry, not meld :)
[16:33] <dholbach> :)
[16:50] <ali1234> that's to be expected
[16:50] <ali1234> i'm always saying how writing the app is the easiest part...
[16:50] <popey> ☻
[17:01]  * skellat is out to lunch
[17:02] <j_f-f> thanks @all
[17:04]  * NikTh is away: I'll be back.. later. 
[18:02] <dpm> For anyone wanting to join the session starting in ~3 mins, here's the link to the hangout! -> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpjlftuq26uskpdleqdr5cpo
[18:02] <cprofitt> thanks dpm
[18:02] <dpm> hey cprofitt, yw :)
[18:06] <dpm> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpjlftuq26uskpdleqdr5cpo
[18:06] <YoBoY> I can't stay for this session :(
[18:06] <YoBoY> Hi
[18:06] <skellat> Catch us on the replay
[18:06] <pleia2> o/
[18:06] <PaulW2U> loud and clear !
[18:07] <YoBoY> ha ha :) thanks
[18:16] <cprofitt> so, this is to produce a 'bucket' of projects that loco teams can be involved in? Perhaps different levels of 'technical difficulty' as well?
[18:16] <skellat> Yes
[18:16] <skellat> "Suggested/Possible Projects for October"
[18:16] <skellat> et cetera
[18:18] <cprofitt> Having been through several seasons of my loco there has been a varying level of technical ability in the members
[18:19] <pleia2> I'd like to see some kind of "packs" for live loco events too, when I did a QA jam I pretty much had to collect and design it myself (with the help of balloons), if I could download something that had tools and info about running such an event it would be great
[18:19] <cprofitt> so having some 'different' types of events to point at or use that fit the level of the people that are currently active would help
[18:19] <cprofitt> for example: bug jams are a bit intimidating to non-technical users
[18:19] <cprofitt> +1 pleia2
[18:20] <chilicuil> and collecting materials for those evens too, +1 to pleia2 idea
[18:20] <dpm> Ah, here's the pad for everyone who wants to contribute: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-community-1311-loco-projects
[18:20] <chilicuil> I actually though it was going to be addressed by  jono community packs (I must admit I had not looked at what materials those packs have if it's that were created)
[18:21] <pleia2> chilicuil: I thought those were more ubuntu promo things (promoting ubuntu, not contributing)
[18:21] <pleia2> but honestly there wasn't much in the pack last I looked
[18:22] <pleia2> bah, disconnecty etherpad
[18:23] <cprofitt> yeah... I lost it too
[18:23] <cprofitt> not reconnecting either
[18:23] <dpm> yeah, same here
[18:24] <cprofitt> that is an issue in all groups -- beginners, familiar, power users, advanced user
[18:24]  * popey pings is
[18:24] <cprofitt> you have an issue with ensuring that you keep them all engaged
[18:24] <skellat> Yes, we do
[18:24] <skellat> This is an opening part to getting people more engaged
[18:25] <cprofitt> I was once asked -- who is your audience:
[18:25] <cprofitt> current users or people not currently using Ubuntu
[18:25] <cprofitt> those are important differences
[18:27] <pleia2> for this session I'd say it's not brand new people, more about keeping current users engaged
[18:27] <cprofitt> some communities are more local or more on-line
[18:28] <popey> IS are looking at etherpad
[18:28] <pleia2> thanks popey
[18:28] <pleia2> yay testing
[18:28] <cprofitt> we have the basics: Bug Jams, App Jams, etc
[18:29] <cprofitt> ISO testing, Alpha/Beta Testing, Language (translations)
[18:29] <eps> *cough* xpdf *cough*
[18:30] <chilicuil> talking about translations, would be really cool to start by translating in community ubuntu.com =)
[18:31] <pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community wiki cleanup/improvements
[18:31] <cprofitt> +1 pleia2 documentation jams
[18:31] <cprofitt> there are global jams, but loco teams can do local jams out of cycle
[18:32] <chilicuil> I think some of the most active groups already are doing local jams, are you suggesting to run multiple global jams? or to encourage more jams outside of the formal ones?
[18:33] <popey> pad is back
[18:33] <cprofitt> no, not running more global jams... but the recipe for a jam should be relatively the same for global and local jams
[18:34] <cprofitt> if we make a 'package' it does not have to be isolated to a global event
[18:34] <pleia2> some what of a side note, more notice for when global jams are happening would be good, last couple cycles we had only a month or so notice and that's not enough time to plan and schedule something
[18:35] <pleia2> need to find space, get materials and volunteers, announce and advertise event
[18:35] <toddcnb> +1
[18:35] <cprofitt> loco 'leaders' should not be the ONLY organizers
[18:35] <cprofitt> they are contacts
[18:36] <rickspencer3> o/
[18:37] <toddcnb> we have several team leaders to share the load
[18:37] <pleia2> rickspencer3: you're in the right place
[18:37] <rickspencer3> thanks pleia2
[18:37] <cprofitt> no you are in the right place
[18:37]  * rickspencer3 not sure if pleia2 means irc or Washington DC ;)
[18:38] <pleia2> hehe
[18:38] <pleia2> California 4ever
[18:40] <pleia2> we've mostly been playing with phones+tablets just on wifi
[18:40] <pleia2> cool re: emulator
[18:47] <cprofitt> is there a way for locos to be able to get 'demo' machines from vendors -- I did it myself by contacting System76, but not sure if there is a way to make it something pre-defined
[18:47] <cprofitt> or perhaps just put up contacts for people to use to get demo devices
[18:48] <cprofitt> other than the wiki -- should loco.ubuntu.com get a section for this?
[18:49] <cprofitt> gotta run to a meeting folks... good session thanks
[18:50] <dpm> thanks cprofitt!
[18:50] <pleia2> later cprofitt
[18:51] <toddc> need to keep arch users in loco's
[18:51] <skellat> toddc: We also need to give them a reason to stick around
[18:51] <cprofitt> +1 popey -- I think it is less issues and it is easier to use Linux
[18:51] <toddc> loco's should welcome all distro users
[18:52] <cprofitt> in our LUG we have moved more to FOSS apps running on Linux over distro specific stuff
[18:53] <cprofitt> now I really need to go :)
[18:53] <skellat> Bye cprofitt
[18:53] <pleia2> yeah, we have LUGs here for other distros, but I live in a tech-heavy place so we can easily sustain distro-specific groups
[18:54] <toddc> azloco works with lots of local LUG's as co-events so muti distro are supported
[18:55] <pleia2> toddc: yeah, we do too
[18:55] <pleia2> and lugs will email us when they need "what's new in ubuntu" speakers :)
[18:56] <toddc> 90% are new linux users so people with skills are hard to retain and hard to do more than installfests that we currently not have manpower to keep the requests for events
[18:58] <pleia2> #ubuntu-locoteams
[18:58] <pleia2> ?
[18:58] <rickspencer3> what was the announcement?
[18:59] <rickspencer3> aaaaah
[18:59] <rickspencer3> gotcha
[18:59] <rickspencer3> :)
[19:00] <high_fiver> thanks guys
[19:00] <skellat> The upcoming summit, once LoCo Council announces it, will in fact take place on summit.ubuntu.com.  Consider my words as a leak as a formal announcement is yet to be made.
[19:01]  * skellat disappears to prepare for LoCo Council's 2000 UTC meeting on #ubuntu-meeting
[19:02] <jono> ballock_, hey
[19:03] <jono> are you running the enterprise roundtable?
[19:03] <ballock_> guess not, same story as last time
[19:03] <jono> ballock_, who is?
[19:03] <jono> I can't set up the hangout, so I want whoever registered it to do it
[19:04] <ballock_> Not sure, Ove settled it with Daniel I guess.
[19:04] <ballock_> Can't see Ove either.
[19:04] <jono> ballock_, I don' think he did, Daniel can't set it up
[19:04] <jono> I tried msging him
[19:04] <jono> ok, well if he shows, I will set the link in summit so it is visible
[19:04] <jono> ballock_, do you want to set up a hangout on air and get it started?
[19:05] <ballock_> Can't, my corporate gmail doesn't have google on air.
[19:05] <ballock_> Unless... IRC is good enough?
[19:06] <stgraber> can I get the hangout URL? (not sure who's running that one)
[19:06] <jono> stgraber, we need someone to run it
[19:06] <jono> I can't run it
[19:06] <stgraber> jono: ah, I guess I could, let me see if my Canonical account was setup for OnAir stuff yet
[19:06] <jono> thanks stgraber
[19:07] <jono> dpm, ^
[19:07] <dpm> jono, stgraber, ack
[19:08] <stgraber> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpilcc71kqmqk3ilink45toc
[19:08] <stgraber> dpm: I don't have edit rights for that meeting on summit so can't add the URL
[19:08] <jono> stgraber, what is the broadcast URL?
[19:08] <jono> stgraber, I will set it for you
[19:08] <stgraber> jono: http://youtu.be/jwhaQik222k
[19:09] <jono> stgraber, done
[19:13] <gQuigs> Thursday Active Directory: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22055/client-1311-activedirectory/
[19:27] <pmatulis> stgraber: is there anything to do regarding AD integration beyond authentication?  i.e. can a linux system be integrated more than that?
[19:30] <geofft> what sort of configurations do you guys do?
[19:30] <geofft> and is this the sort of thing that Ubuntu ought to patch packages for to add some hooks for, in a stable fashion?
[19:30] <geofft> if a lot of people are trying to configure the same thing?
[19:30] <stgraber> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpilcc71kqmqk3ilink45toc if anyone else wants to join
[19:45] <welbourne> What was the XMPP client Stephane said Ubuntu prefers over Pidgin ?
[19:45] <geofft> Empathy
[19:47] <welbourne> Thanks geofft :-)
[19:47]  * welbourne has poor hearing ...
[19:48] <nandersson> Hi, what is the future for IM in Ubuntu Touch/Ubuntu 14.04. Will "Friends" be the default IM-client?
[19:48] <rickspencer3> o/
[19:50] <stgraber> hey rickspencer3
[19:50] <rickspencer3> hi stgraber
[19:50] <rickspencer3> :)
[19:52] <pmatulis> stgraber: thank you for your answer
[19:52] <stgraber> rickspencer3: do you know what the plan is wrt to IM in 14.04, will generic IM still be empathy or is that something Friends would take over?
[19:53] <xnox> friends is not for IM, but rather for facebook/twitter/g+
[19:54] <xnox> empathy is default at the moment, and it can use protocols from pidgin via libpurple.
[19:55] <xnox> stgraber: telephany can reuse _all_ protocols from pidgin via libpurple.
[19:56] <xnox> (needs UI et/al)
[19:56] <xnox> stgraber: it may be more sense to add pidgin UI on ubuntu-touch.
[19:58] <xnox> stgraber: friends is evolution of gwibber.
[20:00] <xnox> ..
[20:01] <xnox> so it will not be rename / downgradable ? e.g. the way HWE are optional.
[20:01] <xnox> stgraber: new libreoffice has often new dependencies.
[20:01] <gQuigs> xnox: LibreOffice?
[20:01] <xnox> gQuigs: yeah.
[20:01] <xnox> gQuigs: e.g. libreoffice-X.Y, etc.
[20:01] <gQuigs> xnox: that was the plan as I understood it; but again it hasn't been approved by the tech board
[20:02] <xnox> gQuigs: similar to how we have boost1.53, and boost1.54 etc.
[20:02] <stgraber> xnox: yeah, I'm mostly waiting on a formal proposal to the TB so we can review this. TBH if I'm on the board at that point, I doubt I'd support much more than a regular MRE + backport for new major releases.
[20:02] <xnox> gQuigs: in that case it's better, as users will be able to stay on previous one if they want to.
[20:02] <gQuigs> xnox: I'm not totally sure
[20:02] <geofft> stgraber, others: I'm kind of curious what sorts of things you customize in academic and other deployments
[20:02] <xnox> stgraber: don't wave imaginary sticks =)
[20:03] <geofft> and preferably if your cfengine / bcfg2 repos are public :)
[20:03] <xnox> ..
[20:03] <xnox> well if anyones existing templates "break", because a bug was "fixed" in libreoffice, it's a no-go.
[20:03] <gQuigs> xnox: then we would need to security updates for all the old versions...
[20:03] <gQuigs> xnox: the proposal was more like with Firefox
[20:04] <stgraber> geofft: I have a public bcfg2 repository but it's not education targeted, it's my own personal network (which is still rather massive ;)). For education, the standard need is authentication, centralized storage and printing configurations, default user session parameters (firefox, dconf, ...), package lists and extra certificates
[20:05] <stgraber> I was mostly working with K12 with mostly two kind of customers, those that to one-to-one (one laptop per student) and those that did shared desktops
[20:05] <gQuigs> work items at the end: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1308-rolling-libreoffice
[20:05] <stgraber> those doing one-to-one would typically not restrict the session very much and usually give admin rights to the users
[20:06] <stgraber> the other case is the complete opposite, where rights are extremely limited and with requests going as far as locking the background and the icons on the desktop :)
[20:06] <gQuigs> xnox: LO new versions is stabilized through a full Regular Release;  it's then brought "Firefox style" to the LTS
[20:06] <ballock_> geofft: Tieto currently customizes authentication, firewall (with network detection), antivirus, SSL CA certificates, central HDD encryption storage, ntp, package repositories, printers,
[20:07] <geofft> authentication is Kerberos+LDAP?
[20:08] <ballock_> SSSD against AD
[20:08] <stgraber> it'd vary, some districts were using AD, so I'd just use sssd, some were using the Apple directory (openldap) and some were using eDirectory or some other random LDAP solution
[20:08] <stgraber> in most cases, sssd was the best choice anyway as it supports all of those and is the only client that does proper creds caching in my experience
[20:09] <stgraber> geofft: https://github.com/stgraber/bcfg2-memento is the public (no machine information and config) part of my repository
[20:10] <stgraber> geofft: I then derive from that one for 3 deployments with some specific configs per deployment
[20:10] <geofft> I'm wondering what sorts of things it'd be most useful to add support in upstream packages. That stuff plus defaults for mail clients is most of what Debathena configures
[20:11] <geofft> IIRC our pain points on upgrades have been mostly things like Firefox config, branding changes over transitions like gdm -> gdm3, and custom printers
[20:11] <geofft> http://debathena.mit.edu/package-list/#component-debathena-config is basically a list of what we configure
[20:11] <geofft> source is all at https://github.com/mit-athena/
[20:12] <stgraber> geofft: I've seen the proliferation of .d directories as something extremely benefitial, the least files I have to fully override the better
[20:12] <stgraber> geofft: I suspect a lot of software support includes in their config but the Debian package just doesn't ship with a .d + include rule by default
[20:12] <stgraber> trying to generalize that would make people's life much easier
[20:12] <ballock_> stgraber: totally agree
[20:12] <geofft> yeah, .d rules would help us a ton
[20:13] <geofft> /etc/services.d is something I'd really want but Debian's netbase maintainer doesn't want it :(
[20:13] <geofft> ... which reminds me, I think a guy I know at CMU wrote a separate NSS module for that. maybe that's worth packaging.
[20:16] <ballock_> fyi: there's a launchpad group and mailing list for the interested ones:
[20:16] <ballock_> https://launchpad.net/~enterprise-ubuntu
[20:16] <geofft> right! I was going to join that, thanks
[20:17] <ballock_> There's a number people representing enterprise deployments.
[20:18] <ballock_> It doesn't seem to have a coordinator, though
[20:18] <ballock_> so it is mostly active around UDSes
[20:28] <pmatulis> anyone can promote an unofficial ubuntu enterprise task force or make more specific ubuntu enterprise blueprints
[20:29] <ballock_> pmatulis: I vote for. The question is who/how?
[20:30] <ballock_> With my limited engineer capabilities I guess I did the best I could
[20:30] <ballock_> by joining a couple of UDSes, making some roundtable-like discussions and blueprints
[20:31] <ballock_> For now I guess the launchpad group I mentioned is the best of those achievements
[20:31] <pmatulis> ballock_: you don't need to be an engineer to do the things i mention.  obviously you would acquaint yourself as much as possible with the subject but you don't need to be a superhero
[20:32] <ballock_> Well, I actually meant I'm more an engineer than a manager or evangelist.
[20:32] <pmatulis> the important thing is to galvanize the topic at hand
[20:32] <ballock_> (still I'm not a developer)
[20:32] <ballock_> I believe there's interest.
[20:32] <ballock_> There's people from a good number of companies,
[20:33] <ballock_> there's French gendarmerie, which I believe to be running the biggest Ubuntu deployment
[20:33] <ballock_> We do have a communication channel
[20:34] <ballock_> but I don't know if we totally share the same goals or can consent on the same goals
[20:34] <ballock_> I can't even say how much potential the groups has
[20:34] <ballock_> nor how to get more people interested in this
[20:34] <ballock_> I guess that to gain more attention we need to have "something" that we can offer to potential members
[20:35] <ballock_> but "advice" might not be good enough
[20:35] <ballock_> there's plenty of forums, google and stuff
[20:35] <ballock_> they are answering more specific questions
[20:36] <ballock_> pmatulis: What's your vision on this?
[20:36] <geofft> I'm leaving for lunch now, but I'll definitely look through the list archive and the wiki pages. It looks like there are quite a few people there!
[20:37] <ballock_> geofft: yup, and I guess we will yet meet on the authentication session
[20:38] <pmatulis> you can't force people or promise them anything.  idea: send to mailing list that you (!) are interested in forming a focus group consisting of people who are espcially motivated/interested and maybe having the occasional google hangout.  but creating a "web" of blueprints under the ubuntu-enterprise umbrella is a necessity.  otherwise things remain vague
[20:39] <ballock_> I guess last UDS Jono mentioned we could get somebody from... the Leadership board? to join
[20:39] <jono> ballock_, join what?
[20:40] <ballock_> oh, speaking of the devil :)
[20:40] <ballock_> I mean, can we have somebody that would "spark" the actions
[20:41] <ballock_> The group is there, the interest is there
[20:41] <ballock_> It's just the question of 'what do we do now'
[20:41] <ballock_> (and how)
[20:42] <ballock_> pmatulis: I like the blueprints idea
[20:43]  * dm8tbr seconds
[20:43] <ballock_> but I didn't work with blueprints workflow
[20:47] <ballock_> ok, leaving for now, but I guess we'll keep in touch
[20:48] <ballock_> thanks for the nice chat and your thoughts on this
[20:48] <ballock_> talk to you later