| Kilos | morning superfly and others | 05:04 |
|---|---|---|
| Kilos | hi mazal | 05:08 |
| mazal | More oom | 05:08 |
| Squirm | morning | 05:29 |
| Kilos | hi Squirm | 05:29 |
| Kilos | hi bduk1 | 05:54 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | morning | 06:06 |
| Kilos | hi ThatGraemeGuy | 06:13 |
| bduk1 | More Kilos and all others | 06:25 |
| Kilos | tecnology is wonderful. got a small plastic half box thing with 3x 1.5v batteries in and a led. led changes colours from reg to blue to white but i cant find what is changing the colours | 06:27 |
| Kilos | must be something in the led itself. there is nothing else | 06:28 |
| Kilos | magic smagic | 06:29 |
| Kilos | technology | 06:36 |
| === ThatGrae- is now known as ThatGraemeGuy | ||
| Kilos | hi Vince-0 ! | 07:26 |
| Vince-0 | ! | 07:32 |
| mazal | How can I set a folder's permissions to be sticky so that all files and folders created in that folder automatically get's those specified permissions of the sub folder | 07:50 |
| mazal | I tried investigating the option of chmod , but I fail to get it right | 07:50 |
| Kilos | just one folder mazal ? | 08:15 |
| Kilos | have you tried chowning it | 08:15 |
| mazal | Kilos, my problem is , I have a folder that is shared for 2 users | 08:22 |
| mazal | So I put them both in the same group ne | 08:22 |
| mazal | And I give the folder permissions for that group | 08:22 |
| mazal | BUT | 08:22 |
| Kilos | hi nlsthzn | 08:23 |
| mazal | When user A creates a doc or folder inside that , only he has permissions to the file or folder | 08:23 |
| mazal | By default everything a user creates is set for permissions to only him , even inside a shared folder | 08:23 |
| mazal | So now user B can't do anything on user A's docs and visa versa | 08:23 |
| Kilos | has user be no admin rights | 08:24 |
| mazal | And one can't go and manually run a chmod every 10 minutes on everything inside there | 08:24 |
| Kilos | who is user B | 08:24 |
| mazal | Doesn't matter who he is | 08:25 |
| Vince-0 | I think you need umask settings | 08:25 |
| nlsthzn | morning all | 08:25 |
| mazal | Ag what is wrong with this ubuntu now again today | 08:26 |
| mazal | can't minimize any windows **sigh** | 08:26 |
| Kilos | hehe make lotsa workspaces | 08:27 |
| mazal | And the launcher went bonkers as well | 08:29 |
| mazal | Mind of its own | 08:29 |
| Kilos | eish | 08:31 |
| mazal | Is this syntex correct: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade ? | 09:02 |
| confluency | No. There's a separate command for doing a distribution upgrade. | 09:04 |
| confluency | I'm pretty sure it's do-release-upgrade | 09:04 |
| mazal | No that's not what I'm looking for | 09:04 |
| confluency | What are you trying to do? | 09:05 |
| mazal | It's the one that is "better" than just sudo apt-get upgrade , the one that does the kernels as well | 09:05 |
| Kilos | aptitude upgrade | 09:05 |
| mazal | The apt-get one is dist-upgrade ne oom Kilos ? | 09:05 |
| Kilos | the fly told me not to use dist-upgrade | 09:06 |
| Kilos | aptitude does what you need | 09:06 |
| confluency | Apparently dist-upgrade will install new kernels. It does other things as well, though, which may not be desirable. | 09:06 |
| confluency | Why not just install the kernels separately? | 09:06 |
| mazal | I usually do it with update manager , but I also use apt-get upgrade a lot , but that always skip the kernels | 09:09 |
| confluency | You can do it on the commandline too. Just apt-get install [whatever kernel packages upgrade told you it held back]. | 09:09 |
| Kilos | yes thats right but aptitude upgrade does the kernels | 09:09 |
| Kilos | hi psyatw | 09:09 |
| * Kilos greets confluency | 09:10 | |
| confluency | Hello | 09:10 |
| Kilos | you not an aptitude fan confluency | 09:10 |
| confluency | I've never had a compelling reason to use it. | 09:10 |
| psyatw | hi Kilos | 09:10 |
| psyatw | hi confluency | 09:10 |
| mazal | Kilos, only thing I don't like about aptitude is the stuff it automatically removes. Makes me nervous | 09:11 |
| Kilos | only thing i find with aptitude is that it doesnt care about locked versions | 09:11 |
| Kilos | just read it mazal it gives solutions and all for probs | 09:11 |
| Kilos | it wont remove stuff unless you accept it | 09:12 |
| Kilos | so you have the choice to first see what it wants to remove | 09:13 |
| Kilos | maybe its some of that stuff thats causing all your probs\ | 09:13 |
| mazal | sudo aptitude upgrade now suddenly gives nothing | 09:14 |
| mazal | Nothing it wants to remove I mean | 09:14 |
| Kilos | lol | 09:15 |
| Kilos | it normally only removes unneccesary stuff | 09:15 |
| mazal | Looks like Ubuntu decided it's test mazal week again | 09:15 |
| Kilos | lol | 09:15 |
| Kilos | you made it sick now it want revenge | 09:16 |
| mazal | Last time I ran it it wanted to remove a ton of stuff and I canceled and didn't let it | 09:16 |
| mazal | It wasn't me , I didn't do anything | 09:16 |
| Kilos | ja ja | 09:16 |
| Kilos | normally the stuff it wants to remove are unused dependancies and so on that arent needed anymore | 09:18 |
| Kilos | just always read what it wants to remove, as long as it doesnt show ubuntu-desktop you are safe | 09:19 |
| mazal | I wonder what happened to all the ones it wanted to remove the last time | 09:21 |
| Kilos | they are being used for something or apt-get removed them for you | 09:21 |
| Kilos | or the update manager | 09:21 |
| mazal | grrrrrrrrr | 09:29 |
| Kilos | wat nou | 09:29 |
| mazal | You see , I can't minimize or close windows. Now I went and right-click on the active chrome on the launcher to close it from there , choose quit , and it closes my xchat | 09:30 |
| mazal | Instead of chrome | 09:30 |
| Kilos | lol | 09:30 |
| * mazal munbels some crude words | 09:30 | |
| Kilos | wait | 09:31 |
| Kilos | you can set it in settings somewhere what xchat uses to get online with | 09:31 |
| Kilos | yours is most likely using chrome | 09:31 |
| superfly | ohai, before I leave my PC again | 09:33 |
| Kilos | mhi my fly | 09:34 |
| Kilos | you too busy man | 09:34 |
| mazal | Now I closed nautilus and it closed xchat again | 09:51 |
| mazal | Die ding is mal | 09:51 |
| Kilos | ai | 09:51 |
| Kilos | you got some bug there | 09:51 |
| Kilos | you need clever peeps to help find that prob | 10:01 |
| confluency | mazal: is this a continuing problem, or did it just start now? | 10:24 |
| theblazehen | ThatGraemeGuy_: hi. You busy right now? Saw you in #reddit-sysadmin, wanted to chat a bit to a sysadmin as I am thinking of choosing that as a career path | 10:39 |
| Vince-0 | ! | 10:46 |
| theblazehen | Vince-0: ? | 10:47 |
| Vince-0 | sysadmins not what it used to be | 10:47 |
| Vince-0 | read up on devops | 10:47 |
| theblazehen | ah ok? | 10:47 |
| theblazehen | thanks | 10:47 |
| theblazehen | sysadmin bad now? | 10:48 |
| Vince-0 | no its all sysadmin | 10:49 |
| Vince-0 | but you need to look at the way its changing | 10:50 |
| theblazehen | ah ok | 10:50 |
| Vince-0 | at least in the first world countries, servers aren't single instance items you baby their whole existence. They become disposable | 10:50 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 10:51 |
| Vince-0 | the best thing to do is get some job feeds and see what the requirements are like. South Africa is pretty dismal on the Linux front - we're 5 years behind and there exists 'not so open' people networks | 10:51 |
| theblazehen | ah ok | 10:52 |
| Vince-0 | take this one for instance: http://www.careerweb.co.za/Common/ViewJob.asp?JobID=058059062049048048008 | 10:52 |
| Vince-0 | pretty legacy stuff | 10:52 |
| theblazehen | ok | 10:52 |
| theblazehen | yeah :/ | 10:53 |
| Vince-0 | vs this: http://rocketrecruit.co.za/site/?page_id=145 | 10:54 |
| Vince-0 | same one here : http://www.pnet.co.za/index.php?s=advert_view&g=6224&i=1 | 10:54 |
| Vince-0 | in any case, first steps are Linux+, LPIC1,2,3 or RHCE | 10:55 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 10:55 |
| theblazehen | So you would recommend devops? | 10:55 |
| Vince-0 | I think a guy from this or another channel actually went for that Amazon interview | 10:56 |
| Vince-0 | not easy | 10:56 |
| Vince-0 | devops is like sysadmin on steriods 'cos you fit into SDLC and dev environment as well | 10:56 |
| theblazehen | ah ok | 10:56 |
| Vince-0 | still need to know the fundamentals | 10:56 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 10:56 |
| Vince-0 | in fact I'm getting a job spec for just such a position in Durban today | 10:57 |
| theblazehen | ah nice | 10:57 |
| Vince-0 | some points from other job specs: | 10:58 |
| Vince-0 | DNS+SPF+MX, MTAs like Postfix etc, Anti spam, SMTP etc | 10:58 |
| Vince-0 | networking concepts (NAT, Routing, etc). Cisco | 10:58 |
| Vince-0 | netstat, ps, strace, postfix, tomcat, apache2, iptables, scripting | 10:58 |
| Vince-0 | Novell product experience | 10:59 |
| theblazehen | whoah, ok | 10:59 |
| Vince-0 | why sysadmins can't code: http://cuddletech.com/blog/?p=817 | 11:02 |
| Vince-0 | here's webafrica's job bounty: http://www.hiringbounty.com/job/view/299/linux-systems-administrator | 11:04 |
| theblazehen | ty | 11:04 |
| Vince-0 | so rather than be a 'sysadmin' you need to master every aspect of the system and the Linux kernel and distro's are the tools to implement said solution. | 11:04 |
| theblazehen | yeah. And for devops ? | 11:05 |
| Vince-0 | that's why there's always "Linxux" and security/database/network/software admin positions | 11:05 |
| Vince-0 | devops is literally development + operations so it has more coding angle | 11:06 |
| theblazehen | ah ok | 11:06 |
| Vince-0 | for distributed systems | 11:06 |
| theblazehen | I don't like the dev angle THAT much though | 11:06 |
| Vince-0 | one wouldn't use devops methods on a solution of 5 machines but on 100+ maybe | 11:07 |
| theblazehen | ah ok | 11:07 |
| Vince-0 | well, sysadmin becomes more like dev eventually. After 5 years of admin work you will want to move up | 11:07 |
| theblazehen | ah ok | 11:07 |
| Vince-0 | so far I haven't even go there | 11:07 |
| Vince-0 | got* | 11:08 |
| theblazehen | ok | 11:08 |
| Vince-0 | here's a good post from Puppet Labs: they make solutions for distributed systems: | 11:08 |
| Vince-0 | http://puppetlabs.com/blog/what-is-a-devops-engineer | 11:08 |
| theblazehen | ty | 11:08 |
| Vince-0 | since SA is a bit behind, there will be lots of room for growth | 11:08 |
| Vince-0 | np | 11:09 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 11:09 |
| inetpro | good evening | 11:11 |
| inetpro | oh and hi Kilos | 11:12 |
| theblazehen | hi inetpro Kilos | 11:12 |
| inetpro | hello theblazehen | 11:12 |
| Kilos | hi inetpro | 11:12 |
| inetpro | glad to see you guys are still alive here | 11:12 |
| Kilos | hi theblazehen | 11:12 |
| * inetpro almost forgot about you | 11:12 | |
| Vince-0 | between some stupid postfix work | 11:13 |
| Kilos | me? | 11:13 |
| inetpro | Kilos: never | 11:13 |
| Kilos | ah | 11:13 |
| inetpro | :-) | 11:13 |
| Kilos | my lucky day | 11:14 |
| Kilos | oh forgot my weekly smileys | 11:15 |
| Kilos | :-) :) <3 | 11:15 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | theblazehen: what do you want to know? | 11:20 |
| theblazehen | Pretty much which part of the career is enjoyable, which are not enjoyable, which parts are challenging, which similar careers are there (eg. devops) | 11:22 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | devops is not a job | 11:22 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | its a way of working | 11:22 |
| theblazehen | ok] | 11:22 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | also, that's a pretty broad question, not really sure where to start ;) | 11:24 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | where are you now in terms of career timeline? | 11:24 |
| theblazehen | Still in high school :/ | 11:25 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | ok cool | 11:25 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | my path may not be typical, e.g. i have no formal tertiary education | 11:26 |
| theblazehen | ok | 11:26 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | but i left school with the idea of being a chartered accountant and that didn't work out and i moved into IT | 11:27 |
| theblazehen | ah | 11:27 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | but from there i followed the traditional path | 11:28 |
| theblazehen | which is? CS/IT --> ? | 11:28 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | no i mean in terms of career progression | 11:29 |
| theblazehen | ok | 11:29 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | so first job was pretty much just desktop support stuff | 11:29 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | install apps, configure printers, fix broken stuff | 11:29 |
| theblazehen | k | 11:29 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | i started touching on netware server and later windows 2000 just before i left | 11:29 |
| theblazehen | ok | 11:29 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | next job i looked after a small network across 2 offices, still primarily desktop stuff, a bit more server stuff and I had an external consulting company to fall back on for the tougher stuff | 11:31 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | got retrenched, stressed a lot | 11:31 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | lucked upon a 6-month contract sitting on helpdesk, when that ran out i ran into some more luck and stepped into the main sysadmin role at the same company which became available | 11:32 |
| theblazehen | ah nice | 11:32 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | was there for about 4 years, moved to a big corporate, hated it, left after not even a year | 11:33 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | those 4 years a learned a TON though | 11:33 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | got lots of pieces of paper with microsoft logos on them which primarily helped boost the paycheque :) | 11:33 |
| theblazehen | ah ok :) | 11:33 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | after the big corporate i went to a company that provides outsourced IT services for people who couldn't be bothered to have their own IT staff | 11:34 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | some people just don't need full time IT people | 11:34 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 11:35 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | didn't enjoy that much, left to work at a big local website | 11:35 |
| theblazehen | ah ok | 11:35 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | maybe worth noting up until this point its all pretty much Windows stuff | 11:35 |
| theblazehen | ok | 11:36 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | 2009 i started at the big local website, and more or less drifted towards the linux side, as the windows stuff there was pretty minimal | 11:36 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 11:36 |
| superfly | which is where I met ThatGraemeGuy_ | 11:36 |
| superfly | :-) | 11:36 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | yes, shame.... sorry about that ;) | 11:36 |
| superfly | ThatGraemeGuy_: hardly, I'm more sorry you had to work with me | 11:37 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | so i was there for 4.5 years and learnt a HUUUGE amount | 11:37 |
| theblazehen | ok | 11:37 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | and now at my current job its all linux all the time | 11:38 |
| theblazehen | nice | 11:38 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | so i'm pretty sure none of that probably answered any of your questions ;-) | 11:38 |
| theblazehen | Well answered a way I can become sysadmin :p | 11:39 |
| theblazehen | helldesk -> etc | 11:39 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | the enjoyable part is that there is always something new to keep the brain engaged | 11:39 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | the less enjoyable part is that some people are asses | 11:39 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 11:39 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | and some people are MONUMENTAL asses | 11:39 |
| superfly | You can also start as a developer, and move into Sysadmin too... | 11:39 |
| theblazehen | Management or users mostly? | 11:40 |
| superfly | another way | 11:40 |
| theblazehen | superfly: was that how you went? | 11:40 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | if you're in the game long enough you will encounter idiocy at all levels | 11:40 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 11:40 |
| superfly | theblazehen: I'm not a sysadmin, I'm a developer | 11:40 |
| theblazehen | superfly: ah ok | 11:40 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | on the sysadmin side, you generall start out on helpdesk and/or desktop support | 11:41 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 11:41 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | and if things work out right you eventually move up away from user-level issues more towards system-level issues | 11:42 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | and depending what you enjoy you can go in specialist directions | 11:42 |
| theblazehen | How long would it normally take helldesk -> sysadmin? | 11:42 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | so maybe more networking stuff, or virtualisation, or storage networks, etc. | 11:42 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 11:43 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | its hard to say, it depends on your capacity for learning, the opportunities that present themselves and the people you work with | 11:43 |
| theblazehen | ok thanks | 11:43 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | in my case, in 2002 i started at the desktop/sysadmin job | 11:44 |
| theblazehen | ah ok | 11:44 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | the management there were pretty laid back, as long as things were not on fire, i could pretty much do what i want, so i had a lot of opportunity to learn | 11:45 |
| theblazehen | ah nice | 11:45 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | spare hardware + internet access + time | 11:45 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 11:45 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | by the time i was retrenched there in 2004 i was what most would consider a junior sysadmin | 11:46 |
| theblazehen | ok | 11:46 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | i could push most of the server buttons to do regular stuff, add users, reset password, backup and restore from tape | 11:47 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 11:47 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | i wasn't building highly available mysql clusters though :) | 11:47 |
| theblazehen | yeah :p | 11:47 |
| theblazehen | You do that now? | 11:47 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | then 2004-2007 i also had ample opportunity to learn | 11:48 |
| theblazehen | k | 11:48 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | big stuff we tended to outsource to a consulting company, but i made sure that i worked very closely with them and did a lot of my own research whenever they mentioned anything that i wasn't familiar with | 11:49 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | also it helps that the guys who ran the consulting company were quite chill as well so they were happy to share information and help me out when i got stuck with stuff | 11:50 |
| theblazehen | ah OK nice | 11:50 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | by the time i left there were some things that would've been outsourced in the past that i would handle almost on my own | 11:50 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | e.g. an exchange server upgrade i did, where i put the plan together and then just asked them to look it over and comment | 11:51 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 11:52 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | you need to have a natural curiosity for this stuff. its not enough to know "do X then do Y", the good sysadmin wants to know more detail | 11:53 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | so yeah, a natural curiosity, a thick skin :) | 11:53 |
| theblazehen | yeah :) | 11:53 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | and a bit of luck to be in the right place at the right time | 11:53 |
| theblazehen | I'm good with curiosity | 11:53 |
| theblazehen | currently running an Ubuntu server with pxe booting and lvm for example | 11:54 |
| theblazehen | did it in a weekend just because | 11:54 |
| theblazehen | with a transparent squid proxy | 11:55 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | and yes, i do have to put up highly available mysql clusters now | 11:55 |
| ThatGraemeGuy_ | they actually asked me to do it as part of my interview process | 11:55 |
| theblazehen | ooh nice | 11:55 |
| Kilos | hi tal0n | 12:37 |
| tal0n | hi Kilos | 12:38 |
| Vince-0 | readin: http://davidplanella.org/empowering-loco-teams-at-uds/ | 13:45 |
| nlsthzn | http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22027/intro-by-jono-bacon-keynote-by-mark-shuttleworth/ | 14:22 |
| nlsthzn | uds startung | 14:22 |
| nlsthzn | *starting | 14:22 |
| Kilos | hoop jy tuis inetpro ! dit storm nou hier | 14:52 |
| inetpro | eish! | 14:53 |
| theblazehen | Kilos: how bad? | 14:53 |
| Kilos | not bad | 14:53 |
| theblazehen | thats good | 14:53 |
| Kilos | and not too close yet. odds drops of rain | 14:53 |
| Kilos | coming from the north i think | 14:53 |
| theblazehen | Ah, yay | 14:55 |
| Kilos | hi up dark clouds moving in from the west | 14:55 |
| Kilos | you might make it inetpro | 14:55 |
| Kilos | listen to the falling rain, listen to it fall | 14:56 |
| Kilos | hmm... hail as well | 14:58 |
| Kilos | rather noisy on a zink roof | 14:59 |
| theblazehen | Hmm, sucks Kilos :/ I enjoy hail | 15:00 |
| Kilos | ya me too. its good for growing things | 15:04 |
| Kilos | bad for fruit already forming though | 15:04 |
| Kilos | nitrogen from the sky | 15:05 |
| theblazehen | yeah | 15:05 |
| Kilos | we got massive mulberry trees, can normally make about 5kg of mulberry jam yearly but the last cold snap wiped everything | 15:09 |
| Kilos | none this year sigh | 15:09 |
| inetpro | dankie oom Kilos | 15:36 |
| Kilos | enige tyd boetie | 15:36 |
| inetpro | net 'n paar druppeltjies wat my gevang het | 15:37 |
| Kilos | mooi | 15:37 |
| inetpro | hoop maar ons het nie die watertjies weggejaag nie | 15:37 |
| Kilos | dit lyk of dit hier verby is nou | 15:38 |
| Kilos | 7mm | 15:46 |
| Kilos | baie meer as 3mm | 15:46 |
| Kilos | hmm... | 16:16 |
| Kilos | domdonner ticked the wrong place | 16:16 |
| nlsthzn | it happens | 17:36 |
| Kilos | lol | 17:37 |
| Kilos | hmm... | 18:21 |
| theblazehen_ | Kilos: hmm...? | 18:25 |
| Kilos | i gotta star a business or something and looking at virtual businesses | 18:25 |
| Kilos | very hard to get into the head all the virtual stuff | 18:26 |
| Kilos | s/star/start | 18:26 |
| theblazehen_ | ah ok | 18:45 |
| Kilos | you growing up at the right time | 19:03 |
| Kilos | all this stuff is part of your life | 19:04 |
| Kilos | i go sleep now | 19:04 |
| Kilos | night all, sleep tight] | 19:04 |
| === ThatGraemeGuy_ is now known as ThatGraemeGuy | ||
| === spinza_ is now known as spinza | ||
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