Kilosmorning superfly and others05:04
Kiloshi mazal 05:08
mazalMore oom05:08
Kiloshi Squirm 05:29
Kiloshi bduk1 05:54
Kiloshi ThatGraemeGuy 06:13
bduk1More Kilos  and all others06:25
Kilostecnology is wonderful. got a small plastic half box thing with 3x 1.5v batteries in and a led. led changes colours from reg to blue to white but i cant find what is changing the colours06:27
Kilosmust be something in the led itself. there is nothing else06:28
Kilosmagic smagic06:29
=== ThatGrae- is now known as ThatGraemeGuy
Kiloshi Vince-0 !07:26
mazalHow can I set a folder's permissions to be sticky so that all files and folders created in that folder automatically get's those specified permissions of the sub folder07:50
mazalI tried investigating the option of chmod , but I fail to get it right07:50
Kilosjust one folder mazal ?08:15
Kiloshave you tried chowning it08:15
mazalKilos, my problem is , I have a folder that is shared for 2 users08:22
mazalSo I put them both in the same group ne08:22
mazalAnd I give the folder permissions for that group08:22
Kiloshi nlsthzn 08:23
mazalWhen user A creates a doc or folder inside that , only he has permissions to the file or folder08:23
mazalBy default everything a user creates is set for permissions to only him , even inside a shared folder08:23
mazalSo now user B can't do anything on user A's docs and visa versa08:23
Kiloshas user be no admin rights08:24
mazalAnd one can't go and manually run a chmod every 10 minutes on everything inside there08:24
Kiloswho is user B08:24
mazalDoesn't matter who he is08:25
Vince-0I think you need umask settings08:25
nlsthznmorning all08:25
mazalAg what is wrong with this ubuntu now again today08:26
mazalcan't minimize any windows **sigh**08:26
Kiloshehe make lotsa workspaces08:27
mazalAnd the launcher went bonkers as well08:29
mazalMind of its own08:29
mazalIs this syntex correct: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade ?09:02
confluencyNo. There's a separate command for doing a distribution upgrade.09:04
confluencyI'm pretty sure it's do-release-upgrade09:04
mazalNo that's not what I'm looking for09:04
confluencyWhat are you trying to do?09:05
mazalIt's the one that is "better" than just sudo apt-get upgrade , the one that does the kernels as well09:05
Kilosaptitude upgrade09:05
mazalThe apt-get one is dist-upgrade ne oom Kilos ?09:05
Kilosthe fly told me not to use dist-upgrade09:06
Kilosaptitude does what you need09:06
confluencyApparently dist-upgrade will install new kernels. It does other things as well, though, which may not be desirable.09:06
confluencyWhy not just install the kernels separately?09:06
mazalI usually do it with update manager , but I also use apt-get upgrade a lot , but that always skip the kernels09:09
confluencyYou can do it on the commandline too. Just apt-get install [whatever kernel packages upgrade told you it held back].09:09
Kilosyes thats right but aptitude upgrade does the kernels09:09
Kiloshi psyatw 09:09
* Kilos greets confluency 09:10
Kilosyou not an aptitude fan confluency 09:10
confluencyI've never had a compelling reason to use it.09:10
psyatwhi Kilos09:10
psyatwhi confluency09:10
mazalKilos, only thing I don't like about aptitude is the stuff it automatically removes. Makes me nervous09:11
Kilosonly thing i find with aptitude is that it doesnt care about locked versions09:11
Kilosjust read it mazal it gives solutions and all for probs09:11
Kilosit wont remove stuff unless you accept it09:12
Kilosso you have the choice to first see what it wants to remove09:13
Kilosmaybe its some of that stuff thats causing all your probs\09:13
mazalsudo aptitude upgrade now suddenly gives nothing09:14
mazalNothing it wants to remove I mean09:14
Kilosit normally only removes unneccesary stuff09:15
mazalLooks like Ubuntu decided it's test mazal week again09:15
Kilosyou made it sick now it want revenge09:16
mazalLast time I ran it it wanted to remove a ton of stuff and I canceled and didn't let it09:16
mazalIt wasn't me , I didn't do anything09:16
Kilosja ja09:16
Kilosnormally the stuff it wants to remove are unused dependancies and so on that arent needed anymore09:18
Kilosjust always read what it wants to remove, as long as it doesnt show ubuntu-desktop you are safe09:19
mazalI wonder what happened to all the ones it wanted to remove the last time09:21
Kilosthey are being used for something or apt-get removed them for you09:21
Kilosor the update manager09:21
Kiloswat nou09:29
mazalYou see , I can't minimize or close windows. Now I went and right-click on the active chrome on the launcher to close it from there , choose quit , and it closes my xchat09:30
mazalInstead of chrome09:30
* mazal munbels some crude words09:30
Kilosyou can set it in settings somewhere what xchat uses to get online with09:31
Kilosyours is most likely using chrome09:31
superflyohai, before I leave my PC again09:33
Kilos mhi my fly09:34
Kilosyou too busy man09:34
mazalNow I closed nautilus and it closed xchat again09:51
mazalDie ding is mal09:51
Kilosyou got some bug there09:51
Kilosyou need clever peeps to help find that prob10:01
confluencymazal: is this a continuing problem, or did it just start now?10:24
theblazehenThatGraemeGuy_: hi. You busy right now? Saw you in #reddit-sysadmin, wanted to chat a bit to a sysadmin as I am thinking of choosing that as a career path10:39
theblazehenVince-0: ?10:47
Vince-0sysadmins not what it used to be10:47
Vince-0read up on devops10:47
theblazehenah ok?10:47
theblazehensysadmin bad now?10:48
Vince-0no its all sysadmin10:49
Vince-0but you need to look at the way its changing10:50
theblazehenah ok10:50
Vince-0at least in the first world countries, servers aren't single instance items you baby their whole existence. They become disposable10:50
Vince-0the best thing to do is get some job feeds and see what the requirements are like. South Africa is pretty dismal on the Linux front - we're 5 years behind and there exists 'not so open' people networks10:51
theblazehenah ok10:52
Vince-0take this one for instance: http://www.careerweb.co.za/Common/ViewJob.asp?JobID=05805906204904804800810:52
Vince-0pretty legacy stuff10:52
theblazehenyeah :/10:53
Vince-0vs this: http://rocketrecruit.co.za/site/?page_id=14510:54
Vince-0same one here : http://www.pnet.co.za/index.php?s=advert_view&g=6224&i=110:54
Vince-0in any case, first steps are Linux+, LPIC1,2,3 or RHCE10:55
theblazehenSo you would recommend devops?10:55
Vince-0I think a guy from this or another channel actually went for that Amazon interview10:56
Vince-0not easy10:56
Vince-0devops is like sysadmin on steriods 'cos you fit into SDLC and dev environment as well10:56
theblazehenah ok10:56
Vince-0still need to know the fundamentals10:56
Vince-0in fact I'm getting a job spec for just such a position in Durban today10:57
theblazehenah nice10:57
Vince-0some points from other job specs: 10:58
Vince-0DNS+SPF+MX, MTAs like Postfix etc, Anti spam, SMTP etc10:58
Vince-0networking concepts (NAT, Routing, etc).  Cisco 10:58
Vince-0netstat, ps, strace, postfix, tomcat, apache2, iptables, scripting10:58
Vince-0Novell product experience10:59
theblazehenwhoah, ok10:59
Vince-0why sysadmins can't code: http://cuddletech.com/blog/?p=81711:02
Vince-0here's webafrica's job bounty: http://www.hiringbounty.com/job/view/299/linux-systems-administrator11:04
Vince-0so rather than be a 'sysadmin' you need to master every aspect of the system and the Linux kernel and distro's are the tools to implement said solution.11:04
theblazehenyeah. And for devops ?11:05
Vince-0that's why there's always "Linxux" and security/database/network/software admin positions11:05
Vince-0devops is literally development + operations so it has more coding angle11:06
theblazehenah ok11:06
Vince-0for distributed systems11:06
theblazehenI don't like the dev angle THAT much though11:06
Vince-0one wouldn't use devops methods on a solution of 5 machines but on 100+ maybe11:07
theblazehenah ok11:07
Vince-0well, sysadmin becomes more like dev eventually. After 5 years of admin work you will want to move up11:07
theblazehenah ok11:07
Vince-0so far I haven't even go there11:07
Vince-0here's a good post from Puppet Labs: they make solutions for distributed systems:11:08
Vince-0since SA is a bit behind, there will be lots of room for growth11:08
inetprogood evening11:11
inetprooh and hi Kilos11:12
theblazehenhi inetpro Kilos11:12
inetprohello theblazehen11:12
Kiloshi inetpro 11:12
inetproglad to see you guys are still alive here11:12
Kiloshi theblazehen 11:12
* inetpro almost forgot about you11:12
Vince-0between some stupid postfix work11:13
inetproKilos: never11:13
Kilosmy lucky day11:14
Kilosoh forgot my weekly smileys11:15
Kilos:-) :) <311:15
ThatGraemeGuy_theblazehen: what do you want to know?11:20
theblazehenPretty much which part of the career is enjoyable, which are not enjoyable, which parts are challenging, which similar careers are there (eg. devops)11:22
ThatGraemeGuy_devops is not a job11:22
ThatGraemeGuy_its a way of working11:22
ThatGraemeGuy_also, that's a pretty broad question, not really sure where to start ;)11:24
ThatGraemeGuy_where are you now in terms of career timeline?11:24
theblazehenStill in high school :/11:25
ThatGraemeGuy_ok cool11:25
ThatGraemeGuy_my path may not be typical, e.g. i have no formal tertiary education11:26
ThatGraemeGuy_but i left school with the idea of being a chartered accountant and that didn't work out and i moved into IT11:27
theblazehenah 11:27
ThatGraemeGuy_but from there i followed the traditional path11:28
theblazehenwhich is? CS/IT --> ?11:28
ThatGraemeGuy_no i mean in terms of career progression11:29
ThatGraemeGuy_so first job was pretty much just desktop support stuff11:29
ThatGraemeGuy_install apps, configure printers, fix broken stuff11:29
ThatGraemeGuy_i started touching on netware server and later windows 2000 just before i left11:29
ThatGraemeGuy_next job i looked after a small network across 2 offices, still primarily desktop stuff, a bit more server stuff and I had an external consulting company to fall back on for the tougher stuff11:31
ThatGraemeGuy_got retrenched, stressed a lot11:31
ThatGraemeGuy_lucked upon a 6-month contract sitting on helpdesk, when that ran out i ran into some more luck and stepped into the main sysadmin role at the same company which became available11:32
theblazehenah nice11:32
ThatGraemeGuy_was there for about 4 years, moved to a big corporate, hated it, left after not even a year11:33
ThatGraemeGuy_those 4 years a learned a TON though11:33
ThatGraemeGuy_got lots of pieces of paper with microsoft logos on them which primarily helped boost the paycheque :)11:33
theblazehenah ok :)11:33
ThatGraemeGuy_after the big corporate i went to a company that provides outsourced IT services for people who couldn't be bothered to have their own IT staff11:34
ThatGraemeGuy_some people just don't need full time IT people11:34
ThatGraemeGuy_didn't enjoy that much, left to work at a big local website11:35
theblazehenah ok11:35
ThatGraemeGuy_maybe worth noting up until this point its all pretty much Windows stuff11:35
ThatGraemeGuy_2009 i started at the big local website, and more or less drifted towards the linux side, as the windows stuff there was pretty minimal11:36
superflywhich is where I met ThatGraemeGuy_11:36
ThatGraemeGuy_yes, shame.... sorry about that ;)11:36
superflyThatGraemeGuy_: hardly, I'm more sorry you had to work with me11:37
ThatGraemeGuy_so i was there for 4.5 years and learnt a HUUUGE amount11:37
ThatGraemeGuy_and now at my current job its all linux all the time11:38
ThatGraemeGuy_so i'm pretty sure none of that probably answered any of your questions ;-)11:38
theblazehenWell answered a way I can become sysadmin :p11:39
theblazehenhelldesk -> etc11:39
ThatGraemeGuy_the enjoyable part is that there is always something new to keep the brain engaged11:39
ThatGraemeGuy_the less enjoyable part is that some people are asses11:39
ThatGraemeGuy_and some people are MONUMENTAL asses11:39
superflyYou can also start as a developer, and move into Sysadmin too...11:39
theblazehenManagement or users mostly?11:40
superflyanother way11:40
theblazehensuperfly: was that how you went?11:40
ThatGraemeGuy_if you're in the game long enough you will encounter idiocy at all levels11:40
superflytheblazehen: I'm not a sysadmin, I'm a developer11:40
theblazehensuperfly: ah ok11:40
ThatGraemeGuy_on the sysadmin side, you generall start out on helpdesk and/or desktop support11:41
ThatGraemeGuy_and if things work out right you eventually move up away from user-level issues more towards system-level issues11:42
ThatGraemeGuy_and depending what you enjoy you can go in specialist directions11:42
theblazehenHow long would it normally take helldesk -> sysadmin?11:42
ThatGraemeGuy_so maybe more networking stuff, or virtualisation, or storage networks, etc.11:42
ThatGraemeGuy_its hard to say, it depends on your capacity for learning, the opportunities that present themselves and the people you work with11:43
theblazehenok thanks11:43
ThatGraemeGuy_in my case, in 2002 i started at the desktop/sysadmin job11:44
theblazehenah ok11:44
ThatGraemeGuy_the management there were pretty laid back, as long as things were not on fire, i could pretty much do what i want, so i had a lot of opportunity to learn11:45
theblazehenah nice11:45
ThatGraemeGuy_spare hardware + internet access + time11:45
ThatGraemeGuy_by the time i was retrenched there in 2004 i was what most would consider a junior sysadmin11:46
ThatGraemeGuy_i could push most of the server buttons to do regular stuff, add users, reset password, backup and restore from tape11:47
ThatGraemeGuy_i wasn't building highly available mysql clusters though :)11:47
theblazehenyeah :p11:47
theblazehenYou do that now?11:47
ThatGraemeGuy_then 2004-2007 i also had ample opportunity to learn11:48
ThatGraemeGuy_big stuff we tended to outsource to a consulting company, but i made sure that i worked very closely with them and did a lot of my own research whenever they mentioned anything that i wasn't familiar with11:49
ThatGraemeGuy_also it helps that the guys who ran the consulting company were quite chill as well so they were happy to share information and help me out when i got stuck with stuff11:50
theblazehenah OK nice11:50
ThatGraemeGuy_by the time i left there were some things that would've been outsourced in the past that i would handle almost on my own11:50
ThatGraemeGuy_e.g. an exchange server upgrade i did, where i put the plan together and then just asked them to look it over and comment11:51
ThatGraemeGuy_you need to have a natural curiosity for this stuff. its not enough to know "do X then do Y", the good sysadmin wants to know more detail11:53
ThatGraemeGuy_so yeah, a natural curiosity, a thick skin :)11:53
theblazehenyeah :) 11:53
ThatGraemeGuy_and a bit of luck to be in the right place at the right time11:53
theblazehenI'm good with curiosity11:53
theblazehencurrently running an Ubuntu server with pxe booting and lvm for example11:54
theblazehendid it in a weekend just because11:54
theblazehenwith a transparent squid proxy11:55
ThatGraemeGuy_and yes, i do have to put up highly available mysql clusters now11:55
ThatGraemeGuy_they actually asked me to do it as part of my interview process11:55
theblazehenooh nice11:55
Kiloshi tal0n 12:37
tal0nhi Kilos 12:38
Vince-0readin: http://davidplanella.org/empowering-loco-teams-at-uds/13:45
nlsthznuds startung14:22
Kiloshoop jy tuis inetpro ! dit storm nou hier14:52
theblazehenKilos: how bad?14:53
Kilosnot bad14:53
theblazehenthats good14:53
Kilosand not too close yet. odds drops of rain14:53
Kiloscoming from the north i think14:53
theblazehenAh, yay14:55
Kiloshi up dark clouds moving in from the west14:55
Kilosyou might make it inetpro 14:55
Kiloslisten to the falling rain, listen to it fall14:56
Kiloshmm... hail as well14:58
Kilosrather noisy on a zink roof14:59
theblazehenHmm, sucks Kilos :/ I enjoy hail15:00
Kilosya me  too. its good for growing things15:04
Kilosbad for fruit already forming though15:04
Kilosnitrogen from the sky15:05
Kiloswe got massive mulberry trees, can normally make about 5kg of mulberry jam yearly but the last cold snap wiped everything15:09
Kilosnone this year sigh15:09
inetprodankie oom Kilos15:36
Kilosenige tyd boetie15:36
inetpronet 'n paar druppeltjies wat my gevang het15:37
inetprohoop maar ons het nie die watertjies weggejaag nie15:37
Kilosdit lyk of dit hier verby is nou15:38
Kilosbaie meer as 3mm15:46
Kilosdomdonner ticked the wrong place16:16
nlsthznit happens17:36
theblazehen_Kilos: hmm...?18:25
Kilosi gotta star a business or something and looking at virtual businesses18:25
Kilosvery hard to get into the head all the virtual stuff18:26
theblazehen_ah ok18:45
Kilosyou growing up at the right time19:03
Kilosall this stuff is part of your life19:04
Kilosi go sleep now19:04
Kilosnight all, sleep tight]19:04
=== ThatGraemeGuy_ is now known as ThatGraemeGuy
=== spinza_ is now known as spinza

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