[05:04] morning superfly and others [05:08] hi mazal [05:08] More oom [05:29] morning [05:29] hi Squirm [05:54] hi bduk1 [06:06] morning [06:13] hi ThatGraemeGuy [06:25] More Kilos and all others [06:27] tecnology is wonderful. got a small plastic half box thing with 3x 1.5v batteries in and a led. led changes colours from reg to blue to white but i cant find what is changing the colours [06:28] must be something in the led itself. there is nothing else [06:29] magic smagic [06:36] technology === ThatGrae- is now known as ThatGraemeGuy [07:26] hi Vince-0 ! [07:32] ! [07:50] How can I set a folder's permissions to be sticky so that all files and folders created in that folder automatically get's those specified permissions of the sub folder [07:50] I tried investigating the option of chmod , but I fail to get it right [08:15] just one folder mazal ? [08:15] have you tried chowning it [08:22] Kilos, my problem is , I have a folder that is shared for 2 users [08:22] So I put them both in the same group ne [08:22] And I give the folder permissions for that group [08:22] BUT [08:23] hi nlsthzn [08:23] When user A creates a doc or folder inside that , only he has permissions to the file or folder [08:23] By default everything a user creates is set for permissions to only him , even inside a shared folder [08:23] So now user B can't do anything on user A's docs and visa versa [08:24] has user be no admin rights [08:24] And one can't go and manually run a chmod every 10 minutes on everything inside there [08:24] who is user B [08:25] Doesn't matter who he is [08:25] I think you need umask settings [08:25] morning all [08:26] Ag what is wrong with this ubuntu now again today [08:26] can't minimize any windows **sigh** [08:27] hehe make lotsa workspaces [08:29] And the launcher went bonkers as well [08:29] Mind of its own [08:31] eish [09:02] Is this syntex correct: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade ? [09:04] No. There's a separate command for doing a distribution upgrade. [09:04] I'm pretty sure it's do-release-upgrade [09:04] No that's not what I'm looking for [09:05] What are you trying to do? [09:05] It's the one that is "better" than just sudo apt-get upgrade , the one that does the kernels as well [09:05] aptitude upgrade [09:05] The apt-get one is dist-upgrade ne oom Kilos ? [09:06] the fly told me not to use dist-upgrade [09:06] aptitude does what you need [09:06] Apparently dist-upgrade will install new kernels. It does other things as well, though, which may not be desirable. [09:06] Why not just install the kernels separately? [09:09] I usually do it with update manager , but I also use apt-get upgrade a lot , but that always skip the kernels [09:09] You can do it on the commandline too. Just apt-get install [whatever kernel packages upgrade told you it held back]. [09:09] yes thats right but aptitude upgrade does the kernels [09:09] hi psyatw [09:10] * Kilos greets confluency [09:10] Hello [09:10] you not an aptitude fan confluency [09:10] I've never had a compelling reason to use it. [09:10] hi Kilos [09:10] hi confluency [09:11] Kilos, only thing I don't like about aptitude is the stuff it automatically removes. Makes me nervous [09:11] only thing i find with aptitude is that it doesnt care about locked versions [09:11] just read it mazal it gives solutions and all for probs [09:12] it wont remove stuff unless you accept it [09:13] so you have the choice to first see what it wants to remove [09:13] maybe its some of that stuff thats causing all your probs\ [09:14] sudo aptitude upgrade now suddenly gives nothing [09:14] Nothing it wants to remove I mean [09:15] lol [09:15] it normally only removes unneccesary stuff [09:15] Looks like Ubuntu decided it's test mazal week again [09:15] lol [09:16] you made it sick now it want revenge [09:16] Last time I ran it it wanted to remove a ton of stuff and I canceled and didn't let it [09:16] It wasn't me , I didn't do anything [09:16] ja ja [09:18] normally the stuff it wants to remove are unused dependancies and so on that arent needed anymore [09:19] just always read what it wants to remove, as long as it doesnt show ubuntu-desktop you are safe [09:21] I wonder what happened to all the ones it wanted to remove the last time [09:21] they are being used for something or apt-get removed them for you [09:21] or the update manager [09:29] grrrrrrrrr [09:29] wat nou [09:30] You see , I can't minimize or close windows. Now I went and right-click on the active chrome on the launcher to close it from there , choose quit , and it closes my xchat [09:30] Instead of chrome [09:30] lol [09:30] * mazal munbels some crude words [09:31] wait [09:31] you can set it in settings somewhere what xchat uses to get online with [09:31] yours is most likely using chrome [09:33] ohai, before I leave my PC again [09:34] mhi my fly [09:34] you too busy man [09:51] Now I closed nautilus and it closed xchat again [09:51] Die ding is mal [09:51] ai [09:51] you got some bug there [10:01] you need clever peeps to help find that prob [10:24] mazal: is this a continuing problem, or did it just start now? [10:39] ThatGraemeGuy_: hi. You busy right now? Saw you in #reddit-sysadmin, wanted to chat a bit to a sysadmin as I am thinking of choosing that as a career path [10:46] ! [10:47] Vince-0: ? [10:47] sysadmins not what it used to be [10:47] read up on devops [10:47] ah ok? [10:47] thanks [10:48] sysadmin bad now? [10:49] no its all sysadmin [10:50] but you need to look at the way its changing [10:50] ah ok [10:50] at least in the first world countries, servers aren't single instance items you baby their whole existence. They become disposable [10:51] yeah [10:51] the best thing to do is get some job feeds and see what the requirements are like. South Africa is pretty dismal on the Linux front - we're 5 years behind and there exists 'not so open' people networks [10:52] ah ok [10:52] take this one for instance: http://www.careerweb.co.za/Common/ViewJob.asp?JobID=058059062049048048008 [10:52] pretty legacy stuff [10:52] ok [10:53] yeah :/ [10:54] vs this: http://rocketrecruit.co.za/site/?page_id=145 [10:54] same one here : http://www.pnet.co.za/index.php?s=advert_view&g=6224&i=1 [10:55] in any case, first steps are Linux+, LPIC1,2,3 or RHCE [10:55] yeah [10:55] So you would recommend devops? [10:56] I think a guy from this or another channel actually went for that Amazon interview [10:56] not easy [10:56] devops is like sysadmin on steriods 'cos you fit into SDLC and dev environment as well [10:56] ah ok [10:56] still need to know the fundamentals [10:56] yeah [10:57] in fact I'm getting a job spec for just such a position in Durban today [10:57] ah nice [10:58] some points from other job specs: [10:58] DNS+SPF+MX, MTAs like Postfix etc, Anti spam, SMTP etc [10:58] networking concepts (NAT, Routing, etc). Cisco [10:58] netstat, ps, strace, postfix, tomcat, apache2, iptables, scripting [10:59] Novell product experience [10:59] whoah, ok [11:02] why sysadmins can't code: http://cuddletech.com/blog/?p=817 [11:04] here's webafrica's job bounty: http://www.hiringbounty.com/job/view/299/linux-systems-administrator [11:04] ty [11:04] so rather than be a 'sysadmin' you need to master every aspect of the system and the Linux kernel and distro's are the tools to implement said solution. [11:05] yeah. And for devops ? [11:05] that's why there's always "Linxux" and security/database/network/software admin positions [11:06] devops is literally development + operations so it has more coding angle [11:06] ah ok [11:06] for distributed systems [11:06] I don't like the dev angle THAT much though [11:07] one wouldn't use devops methods on a solution of 5 machines but on 100+ maybe [11:07] ah ok [11:07] well, sysadmin becomes more like dev eventually. After 5 years of admin work you will want to move up [11:07] ah ok [11:07] so far I haven't even go there [11:08] got* [11:08] ok [11:08] here's a good post from Puppet Labs: they make solutions for distributed systems: [11:08] http://puppetlabs.com/blog/what-is-a-devops-engineer [11:08] ty [11:08] since SA is a bit behind, there will be lots of room for growth [11:09] np [11:09] yeah [11:11] good evening [11:12] oh and hi Kilos [11:12] hi inetpro Kilos [11:12] hello theblazehen [11:12] hi inetpro [11:12] glad to see you guys are still alive here [11:12] hi theblazehen [11:12] * inetpro almost forgot about you [11:13] between some stupid postfix work [11:13] me? [11:13] Kilos: never [11:13] ah [11:13] :-) [11:14] my lucky day [11:15] oh forgot my weekly smileys [11:15] :-) :) <3 [11:20] theblazehen: what do you want to know? [11:22] Pretty much which part of the career is enjoyable, which are not enjoyable, which parts are challenging, which similar careers are there (eg. devops) [11:22] devops is not a job [11:22] its a way of working [11:22] ok] [11:24] also, that's a pretty broad question, not really sure where to start ;) [11:24] where are you now in terms of career timeline? [11:25] Still in high school :/ [11:25] ok cool [11:26] my path may not be typical, e.g. i have no formal tertiary education [11:26] ok [11:27] but i left school with the idea of being a chartered accountant and that didn't work out and i moved into IT [11:27] ah [11:28] but from there i followed the traditional path [11:28] which is? CS/IT --> ? [11:29] no i mean in terms of career progression [11:29] ok [11:29] so first job was pretty much just desktop support stuff [11:29] install apps, configure printers, fix broken stuff [11:29] k [11:29] i started touching on netware server and later windows 2000 just before i left [11:29] ok [11:31] next job i looked after a small network across 2 offices, still primarily desktop stuff, a bit more server stuff and I had an external consulting company to fall back on for the tougher stuff [11:31] got retrenched, stressed a lot [11:32] lucked upon a 6-month contract sitting on helpdesk, when that ran out i ran into some more luck and stepped into the main sysadmin role at the same company which became available [11:32] ah nice [11:33] was there for about 4 years, moved to a big corporate, hated it, left after not even a year [11:33] those 4 years a learned a TON though [11:33] got lots of pieces of paper with microsoft logos on them which primarily helped boost the paycheque :) [11:33] ah ok :) [11:34] after the big corporate i went to a company that provides outsourced IT services for people who couldn't be bothered to have their own IT staff [11:34] some people just don't need full time IT people [11:35] yeah [11:35] didn't enjoy that much, left to work at a big local website [11:35] ah ok [11:35] maybe worth noting up until this point its all pretty much Windows stuff [11:36] ok [11:36] 2009 i started at the big local website, and more or less drifted towards the linux side, as the windows stuff there was pretty minimal [11:36] yeah [11:36] which is where I met ThatGraemeGuy_ [11:36] :-) [11:36] yes, shame.... sorry about that ;) [11:37] ThatGraemeGuy_: hardly, I'm more sorry you had to work with me [11:37] so i was there for 4.5 years and learnt a HUUUGE amount [11:37] ok [11:38] and now at my current job its all linux all the time [11:38] nice [11:38] so i'm pretty sure none of that probably answered any of your questions ;-) [11:39] Well answered a way I can become sysadmin :p [11:39] helldesk -> etc [11:39] the enjoyable part is that there is always something new to keep the brain engaged [11:39] the less enjoyable part is that some people are asses [11:39] yeah [11:39] and some people are MONUMENTAL asses [11:39] You can also start as a developer, and move into Sysadmin too... [11:40] Management or users mostly? [11:40] another way [11:40] superfly: was that how you went? [11:40] if you're in the game long enough you will encounter idiocy at all levels [11:40] yeah [11:40] theblazehen: I'm not a sysadmin, I'm a developer [11:40] superfly: ah ok [11:41] on the sysadmin side, you generall start out on helpdesk and/or desktop support [11:41] yeah [11:42] and if things work out right you eventually move up away from user-level issues more towards system-level issues [11:42] and depending what you enjoy you can go in specialist directions [11:42] How long would it normally take helldesk -> sysadmin? [11:42] so maybe more networking stuff, or virtualisation, or storage networks, etc. [11:43] yeah [11:43] its hard to say, it depends on your capacity for learning, the opportunities that present themselves and the people you work with [11:43] ok thanks [11:44] in my case, in 2002 i started at the desktop/sysadmin job [11:44] ah ok [11:45] the management there were pretty laid back, as long as things were not on fire, i could pretty much do what i want, so i had a lot of opportunity to learn [11:45] ah nice [11:45] spare hardware + internet access + time [11:45] yeah [11:46] by the time i was retrenched there in 2004 i was what most would consider a junior sysadmin [11:46] ok [11:47] i could push most of the server buttons to do regular stuff, add users, reset password, backup and restore from tape [11:47] yeah [11:47] i wasn't building highly available mysql clusters though :) [11:47] yeah :p [11:47] You do that now? [11:48] then 2004-2007 i also had ample opportunity to learn [11:48] k [11:49] big stuff we tended to outsource to a consulting company, but i made sure that i worked very closely with them and did a lot of my own research whenever they mentioned anything that i wasn't familiar with [11:50] also it helps that the guys who ran the consulting company were quite chill as well so they were happy to share information and help me out when i got stuck with stuff [11:50] ah OK nice [11:50] by the time i left there were some things that would've been outsourced in the past that i would handle almost on my own [11:51] e.g. an exchange server upgrade i did, where i put the plan together and then just asked them to look it over and comment [11:52] yeah [11:53] you need to have a natural curiosity for this stuff. its not enough to know "do X then do Y", the good sysadmin wants to know more detail [11:53] so yeah, a natural curiosity, a thick skin :) [11:53] yeah :) [11:53] and a bit of luck to be in the right place at the right time [11:53] I'm good with curiosity [11:54] currently running an Ubuntu server with pxe booting and lvm for example [11:54] did it in a weekend just because [11:55] with a transparent squid proxy [11:55] and yes, i do have to put up highly available mysql clusters now [11:55] they actually asked me to do it as part of my interview process [11:55] ooh nice [12:37] hi tal0n [12:38] hi Kilos [13:45] readin: http://davidplanella.org/empowering-loco-teams-at-uds/ [14:22] http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22027/intro-by-jono-bacon-keynote-by-mark-shuttleworth/ [14:22] uds startung [14:22] *starting [14:52] hoop jy tuis inetpro ! dit storm nou hier [14:53] eish! [14:53] Kilos: how bad? [14:53] not bad [14:53] thats good [14:53] and not too close yet. odds drops of rain [14:53] coming from the north i think [14:55] Ah, yay [14:55] hi up dark clouds moving in from the west [14:55] you might make it inetpro [14:56] listen to the falling rain, listen to it fall [14:58] hmm... hail as well [14:59] rather noisy on a zink roof [15:00] Hmm, sucks Kilos :/ I enjoy hail [15:04] ya me too. its good for growing things [15:04] bad for fruit already forming though [15:05] nitrogen from the sky [15:05] yeah [15:09] we got massive mulberry trees, can normally make about 5kg of mulberry jam yearly but the last cold snap wiped everything [15:09] none this year sigh [15:36] dankie oom Kilos [15:36] enige tyd boetie [15:37] net 'n paar druppeltjies wat my gevang het [15:37] mooi [15:37] hoop maar ons het nie die watertjies weggejaag nie [15:38] dit lyk of dit hier verby is nou [15:46] 7mm [15:46] baie meer as 3mm [16:16] hmm... [16:16] domdonner ticked the wrong place [17:36] it happens [17:37] lol [18:21] hmm... [18:25] Kilos: hmm...? [18:25] i gotta star a business or something and looking at virtual businesses [18:26] very hard to get into the head all the virtual stuff [18:26] s/star/start [18:45] ah ok [19:03] you growing up at the right time [19:04] all this stuff is part of your life [19:04] i go sleep now [19:04] night all, sleep tight] === ThatGraemeGuy_ is now known as ThatGraemeGuy === spinza_ is now known as spinza