[00:00] and how can I test if it installs correctly? [00:00] and if it uninstalls corerctly? [00:01] or is that not part of the tests I'm supposed to do? [00:03] usually not.. the list-missing hook will tell you if you're missing a file in the package and that's what we usually check [00:03] we do test the installability of the packages, but only once all are done. Installing single packages is usually a dependency mess [00:04] as for uninstalling. dpkg is very reliable there. As long as you don't have a prerm/postrm script you may assume it will uninstall fine [00:05] also installability of one package has no value [00:06] only expresses whether it does not conflict with anything that was on the system prior to install (ignoring conflicts with other packages that are part of a KDE release and prior versions of those packages) [00:14] yofel: the trello tells me tomorrow is beta3 [00:14] yofel: still held up on b1? === apachelogger changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu | https://trello.com/kubuntu | 4.11.80 WIP http://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-ninjas | bugs http://goo.gl/vHRjj | build status http://goo.gl/cjEFkO | Shirts! https://holvi.com/shop/Kubuntu/ [00:17] I guess it is worth another try to get our docs on the KDE wiki system, but I don't know how that would work, since they are our upstream [00:18] same river still :P [00:22] they were asking me what kubuntu was going to do, I did not have answers. guess it is a good time to figure it out lol. they seem to be asleep now though. I keep asking around though [00:28] sgclark: are you asking if kubuntu will use KDEs wiki? [00:29] well, I asked months ago, and was told then: No [00:30] riddell asked me to someway use their wiki to get translation then I convert that to docbook [00:30] but I haven't been part of the doc or wiki team [00:30] right, that's what we have wanted from the beginning [00:30] yeah I don't think they would host it, then they would have to for all using kde I suspect [00:30] because KDE's system is super, and the people running it are top-notch [00:31] another option we've been looking at is the mediawiki that KubuntuGuide is using [00:31] but they use google translate so far [00:31] then why not host our own mediawiki? [00:31] and that sucks [00:31] ovidiu-florin: we don't have a sysadmin team [00:32] poorly administered wiki will be full of spam in days [00:32] what woud that team need? [00:32] need to do* [00:32] I have been a sys admin in one of my lives. I tend my own web server, watcha yah need? [00:32] keep the software up-to-date, and monitor all posts for spam [00:33] I pretty much do sysadmin stuff [00:33] their are plugins that do most of the work, but yeah moderators for sure [00:33] I maintain my own server and a few sites [00:33] what happens in KDE is the the post URLs are given out by the bot to the IRC channels [00:34] oops, that's the forum, sorry [00:35] and KDE has an established translator team which part of them work on the wikis as well [00:35] while media wiki I think is a good idea, still need humans to translate [00:35] ^^ [00:35] using a Translate plugin which has been developed by some KDE people [00:35] YES, totally agreed [00:35] machine translation sux [00:36] we would be sort of on our own, which is why it makes me so nervous to think of leaving the Ubuntu infra [00:37] that is very true [00:37] I know the Canonical sysadmin team isn't known for being responsive [00:37] but they are very competent [00:38] KDE sysadmins are gods, for sure [00:38] but I can't see how we can sneak into that tent [00:38] hehe [00:38] yeah [00:39] Amarok used to have their own wikis [00:39] full of spam [00:39] now that content is all on KDE wikis [00:39] They will still do the heavy lifting for all docs KDE specific, but kubuntu specifc still needs a home [00:39] etc. [00:39] right [00:40] and we try to link to KDE content as much as possible, so we don't have to keep it current and/or translate [00:40] exactly, I saw that, and that works perfect for what I want to do [00:40] ovidiu-florin: it would help if you would talk to the KDE wiki folks [00:40] how about we just make the wiki not to allow anyone to register? [00:40] and see what it takes to do set up and maintainence [00:41] and we jusst give accounts to the people who request it? [00:41] that would help, for sure [00:41] ok, I'll contact them [00:41] but again, a lot of our content is on the ubuntu wiki too [00:42] yeah, to be honest, I was so lost trying to find stuff [00:42] and as long as we are an ubuntu flavor, that is the way it is [00:42] I finally found that commented installation lol [00:42] sgclark: that's why I don't make pages [00:42] wiki logic is not logical to me [00:43] and moinmoin is more opaque than most [00:43] yeah docbook is easier lol. but I can get it figured out [00:43] I found docbook easier, tbh [00:43] :) [00:43] it's just xml [00:43] yeah [00:43] I used to handcode my own webpages too [00:43] easy peasy [00:43] same [01:01] Howdy [01:03] hey manchicken [01:04] hello [01:15] yofel: how do I commit? [01:16] ovidiu-florin: need to ask in kde-www for anything wiki related [01:16] I asked in #kde-docs [01:16] I tried earlier without luck, I am thinking most of them asleep now [01:16] so that's not ok [01:16] ? [01:16] #kde-docs are the docbook folks [01:17] aham [01:17] sgclark: so you've already asked in #kde-www about how they maintain the wiki? [01:19] I asked for assistance to translation / wiki -> docbook help, so not the same ? as yours [01:19] just warned that I got no response :) [01:25] apachelogger: ping [01:25] manchicken: almost-not-sleeping-pong [01:25] apachelogger: ah! [01:25] Did you see my call for a meeting? [01:25] I want to discuss the status of the libqapt stuff. [01:26] manchicken: what rohan said :P [01:26] manchicken: most of us are at the BSP [01:26] Weaksauce. [01:26] Could somebody counter with a time that works for them? [01:26] manchicken: not sure we will be around, though I suppose we will since that's 1600 munich time [01:27] What's Munich? +0200? [01:27] +1 [01:27] That's right! I proposed 1500! Hah [01:27] I'm getting old. [01:27] :P [01:27] Either that or these children are stealing my brain. [01:27] Or both. :( [01:27] Anyway, would any particular time work better for you guys? [01:27] kubotu: order brain [01:27] * kubotu shouts: OMG!!!!! RED ALERT! We lost a brain. Get me a medic, NOW! [01:28] manchicken: not this weekend would help I guess, but as I said IMO there is nothing stopping us from doing it saturday either [01:28] munich isn't known to have bad uplink xD [01:29] apachelogger: dr who? [01:29] That seems like mixed signals. [01:29] Would you guys prefer next weekend? After American Thanksgiving? [01:30] ovidiu-florin: doctor who isn't on at 1500 :P [01:30] oh [01:30] (a.k.a. the day we skew the Earth's rotation by each gaining 10 pounds in as many hours) [01:30] Are you guys watching the premier? [01:31] sure [01:31] I'm off to bed [01:31] nighty night [01:31] nini [01:32] manchicken: I'd not want you to miss out on rotational skew [01:32] apachelogger: It's no bother, I'll have already braced for impact. [01:32] but if it's all the same to you, maybe propose it on the list see what excuse shadeslayer has for next weekend :P [01:33] Indeed. [01:33] I'll send that out now :) [01:33] I'm going to keep plugging away (slowly) at unit tests until then. [01:34] I've re-factored quite a bit of the program, I think part of this meeting should be reviewing my changes to make sure that they're in line with what we want for the library. [01:34] Much of my re-factoring is to make it more testable. It makes me uncomfy that so much stuff depends on a library with so little test coverage. [01:34] manchicken: libqapt? [01:34] Yeah [01:34] pff [01:35] ALL of multimedia doesn't have test coverage [01:35] from driver to applications [01:35] Yeah... but I'm not playing with those, am I? :) [01:35] it's all the more surprising that one does not get squeeky noises ever so often [01:35] manchicken: no, just putting things into perspective :P [01:35] libqapt seems much riskier to get wrong though. [01:36] OTOH porn is much more appreciated by users than silly packages :P [01:36] Especially seeing as how one of the bugs I'm fixing in it is the wholesale slaughter of your sources.list. [01:36] * apachelogger waves fist at qml [01:37] Don't do that, the former Mono zealots will see you! [01:37] :O [01:38] manchicken: btw, I never quite understood why we ahve that sources.list thing anyway ... the script generating it is insanely spooky and would be 300% more readable if it treated each repository as a separate sources.list unit [01:38] things like that make life such a harsh mistress [01:38] apachelogger: No argument... but that is exactly the use case which causes this problem. [01:38] If you try to modify a source entry in a sources.list.d entry, it trashes sources.list. [01:39] That's in the new version that is not yet released. [01:39] (the one Jon gave me before) [01:40] apachelogger: You mentioned Doctor Who earlier... you do know I work for ThinkGeek now, right? :) [01:45] I did not know that [01:45] though I always considered it a shame that kubuntu members do not get equipped with doctor who slippers [01:45] Riddell: I really think we should change that :P [01:46] We have excellent TARDIS slippers, just recently went on sale, too. [01:46] Very cozy. [01:46] * manchicken knows nothing of international shipping costs though... [01:46] valorie: can we haz sponsorship ^ [01:47] The 12 days of Doctor Who thing has been a fun marketing promo to watch... even though I know very little about marketing. [01:49] I'm just a Perler for them, and they moved my family and me over to a very beautiful part of the country to do the job, too. It's been a good time. Supporting open source is one of our values, so I've actually been told that from time to time it's cool if I adjust my work hours to accommodate my open source stuff. [01:49] that's really awesome [01:49] It is. [01:50] well, time for bed, nini [01:50] How does one pull an automated test into the debugger in KDevel? [01:50] nini [01:50] ? [01:51] manchicken: #kde-devel may be able to help [01:51] K [01:51] * apachelogger lives on the terminal and would gdb it simply :P [01:52] Yeah, I may just do that... gdb hates me. I'm pretty sure it wants to kill me. [02:22] haha, doctor who slippers all around! [02:34] \o/ [02:34] only like 4 days left! [02:55] Indeed! [02:55] valorie: I have our 10th Doctor pajamas... first set of pajamas I've worn in 15 years. [02:56] lol [02:56] valorie: I fully expect David Tenant to send me a nasty letter. [02:56] i'm loving all the specials this week [02:56] same here; way too excited [02:56] I wish Tenant could stay [02:56] he was the best doctor [02:56] imho [02:56] Tennant* [02:56] although BBC America is not top-notch [02:56] at least I have it [02:57] I liked Tennant [02:57] manchicken: thanks lol [02:57] yes, Tennant was awesome [02:57] but so is Matt [02:57] * jalcine stands on the Tennant side :p [02:57] I liked Christopher Eccleston better... but his tenure was short-lived. [02:58] Man, I almost forgot about him [02:58] He reminds me of Harness when I think of him now [02:58] a solider kind of guy [02:58] I know I'm in the minority with him... but he just pulled the silly part off better, and I like silly. [02:59] * jalcine has to re-watch [02:59] but time's against me [02:59] Yes. Yes you do. Netflix is your friend. [02:59] manchicken: but I have work :/ [02:59] I work in office and remotely in the evening [03:00] (unless you want to watch Classic Doctor Who or anything after the first set with Amelia Pond) [03:00] oh man that's going to be a challenge, saving that for the holidays [03:00] Yeah... I know what you mean. [03:00] Netflix has a terrible selection for Classic Doctor Who, and they don't seem to support GNU/Linux at all. [03:01] Anyway, it's 2200 and I'm sleepy. I'm gonna head to bed. [03:01] there's this [03:01] http://www.compholio.com/netflix-desktop/ [03:01] manchicken: ah, you're over by me [03:01] lol [03:01] It's been a while since I went to bed the same night I woke up. [03:01] jalcine: Where are you? [03:01] Over in NYC [03:01] Well, time zone wise [03:02] literally, im in NYC [03:02] I'm in the NOVA area, in Fairfax County, VA. [03:02] ah! I think I've driven through there with a friend [03:02] well, have a good nap o/ [03:02] Used to be in IL, moved out here recently to go work for ThinkGeek :) [03:03] That's awesome! [03:03] Yeah [03:03] It is :) [03:04] Anyway, bed time for me. Later all. [03:05] o/ [03:13] I get the DVDs for the old stuff [03:13] started with the first Doctor and am not done with that stuff yet [03:54] apachelogger: Yes. http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/21986/core-1311-qt5-versions-in-ubuntu/ [03:55] I sort of messed up my TZ math and missed it, but it seemed to work out OK. [07:32] Good morning. [08:06] Riddell: you guys didn't attend http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/21986/core-1311-qt5-versions-in-ubuntu/ ?¿ [08:10] ah, i see another guy that seems to have some kubuntu background joined later [08:16] tsdgeos: [05:54:55] apachelogger: Yes. http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/21986/core-1311-qt5-versions-in-ubuntu/ [08:16] [05:55:16] I sort of messed up my TZ math and missed it, but it seemed to work out OK. === vinay is now known as Guest77610 [11:35] Sick_Rimmit: going to do the phonon SRU? [11:35] do you know what you're doing? [11:35] does anyone? XD [11:49] so philosophical [12:24] Hi all [12:36] yofel: plingz [12:41] yofel: during the mighty neon5 build we need to have XDG_DATA_DIRS and XDG_CONFIG_DIRS exported, otherwise build tools relying on Qt's standardpaths foo will not be able to lookup their data/config files [12:41] leading to FTBFS like https://launchpadlibrarian.net/156993752/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.project-neon5-kde-workspace_0.0%2Bgit20131120~6959c0a%2Bneon9~13.10.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz where meinproc can't find its dtds [12:41] yofel: so I am wondering, should I simply add the exports to default-settings.mk [13:11] shadeslayer: alive? [13:30] apachelogger: yeah, just add them [13:37] Riddell: yes [13:51] Guten tag [13:55] manchicken! [13:56] Riddell! [13:56] How the hell are you? [13:56] I'm awesome [13:57] manchicken: what's all this you're doing with qapt? [13:58] Funny you ask :) [13:58] So for the kubuntu-debug-installer we need to be able to add a sources.list.d file and then remove it again. [13:59] libqapt doesn't really support that… at all. Matter of fact, when you try, it trashes your sources.list. [13:59] So I've been re-factoring that bit to fix the bug. In the course of fixing that, however, I got worried about how much this very important library has nothing really in the way of automated tests. [14:00] So I refactored it a bit more so it takes arbitrary sources.list style files so that I could wrap some QtTests around it. [14:00] Last night I finished the first of the seven tests I want to wrap around that library before I send it out to people. [14:01] The reason I'm bugging everybody about it, however, is because I want to make sure that before I get too far — which I arguably may have already done — I get some other folks to look at it to make sure I'm not spending a bunch of time on what could be a fundamentally bad idea. [14:01] I'm also trying to keep in mind that other programs use it, so I need to maintain a consistent interface. [14:03] I know that's a lot, but that's what's going on. [14:04] sounds like a good thing you're doing [14:04] apol has been fixing muon recently, have you spoken to him? [14:05] No, but that sounds like someone who has a stake in this whole thing. [14:05] Why is it I always end up working on package management stuff? hehe [14:06] because you're awesome [14:06] Hah [14:06] * BluesKaj suspects muon isn't seeing some repos , since apt-get sees packages that muon can't find [14:07] What's up with this virtual UDS stuff? [14:15] manchicken: thanks for the reminder, in the qt session now :) [14:15] manchicken: here's apol_ if you have questions on qapt [14:15] Hah [14:16] apol_: Did you see the message about the libqapt meeting I'm wanting to have next Saturday @ 1500 UTC? [14:22] I don't know [14:22] no [14:22] i havent [14:22] let me check [14:23] manchicken: yes... I don't think I can make it this saturday [14:24] you can find me here at many times [14:24] or just e-mail [14:25] manchicken: so what's your plan? [14:33] apol_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6448388/ [14:46] manchicken: I've worked mostly on muon instead of qapt, so personally, as long as you don't break muon I'm happy [14:46] there's some sources.lists managing feature [14:46] if that's what it's not working for you, I'd love to see it fixed [14:47] I can look at your patches and give you my opinion [14:47] manchicken: I'd suggest to discuss over this issue through reviewboard instead of a meeting [14:48] Good afternoon. [15:07] apol_: What about next Saturday? I sent out a second proposal yesterday. [15:08] manchicken: is there a need for a meeting rather than just a conversation? [15:09] Riddell: Multiple parties involved was my justification. [15:09] There are many programs linking against that library, no? [15:11] not that many that I know of [15:11] some Kubuntu tools and Muon, AFAIK [15:11] maybe I'm wrong though [15:13] yep [15:13] a patch in kde-runtime, debug-installer, muon, kde-config-grub2 and gstreamer0.10-qapt [15:13] (the latter is part of qapt anyway) [15:17] manchicken: so I think just code away and get apol to review [15:17] ^^ [15:17] K [15:17] I'm going to try to maintain calling compatibility, but I am adding the ability for libqapt to know that it's got multiple sources files. [15:18] I changed internal storage to use a hash keyed by filename rather than a simple list. [15:18] jonathan thomas is busy with a lady and university so can't do muon/qapt just now [15:18] But as long as you didn't depend on any of the internals, the only real side-effect is that it might change the order of entries. [15:19] That's cool, I have no problem with people taking time off. [15:19] I took six years off. [15:19] (almost six years) [15:19] (maybe closer to five) [15:20] welcome back :) [15:21] manchicken: UDS moved to online only which does prevent a lot of the usefulness of it and possiblity for community cohesion, fortunately in Kubuntu we have some money so we can fund trips to meetings like the bus squishing party this weekend [15:21] but it may not allow for trans-atlantic travel === apol_ is now known as apol [15:22] Riddell: Stupid Atlantic... [15:24] shadeslayer: kdepimlibs has this in rules http://paste.ubuntu.com/6448632/ [15:24] shadeslayer: so that might need to be added to libkfbapi libkolab and libkgapi [15:24] but the question of why those packages depend on kdepim-runtime is unknown and annoying me [15:24] *nod* [15:25] note : I think pkg-kde-tools is broken [15:25] in what way? [15:25] https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ninjas/+archive/ppa/+build/5248662 [15:25] Looking at the Debian changelog to see if it's been fixed [15:26] shadeslayer: I've made the changes to knavalbattle to make it work and I''ve changed the changelog [15:26] how do I commit [15:27] I just fixed that :( [15:27] like 30 minutes ago [15:27] but plz show your changes so that I can review them [15:27] how? [15:27] /var/lib/dpkg/info/libkabc4.symbols:libkabc.so.4 libkabc4 #MINVER#, kdepim-runtime [15:27] shadeslayer: that's probably why ^^ [15:27] push them to lp:~LP_USERNAME/+junk/knavalbattle [15:27] ovidiu-florin: ^^ [15:28] one moment [15:29] shadeslayer: I can add ovidiu-florin to ~kubuntu-packagers if that's easier [15:30] Riddell: I want to review what he did before I'd add him :) [15:30] shadeslayer: got it http://paste.ubuntu.com/6448687/ [15:31] shadeslayer: so we can either remove what debian does there to get rid of the circular dependency or we can just add to debian/rules to exclude kdepim-runtime [15:31] Riddell: maybe discuss with debian first? [15:31] and why did it work until now [15:32] shadeslayer: because there was no break << kdepim-runtime [15:32] I see [15:32] so kdepim-runtime could be installed while building kdepim-runtime fine [15:32] but you broke that :) [15:32] well, lets discuss with Debian first? [15:32] hehe [15:32] => master at breaking stuff now [15:32] yeah, go ahead if you can, I need to pop out for an hour [15:40] okay [15:41] ovidiu-florin: once you're done, you can look at kate :) [15:42] ok [15:42] I'm at work now so I had to ssh into my laptop at home [15:44] shadeslayer: how do I push? [15:44] i changed just the changelog [15:45] do I have to commit or something before? [15:45] yes [15:45] bzr commit [15:45] I'm not familiar with bzr [15:45] I know only git [15:45] bzr push lp:~LP_NAME/+junk/PROJECT [15:46] do I bzr commit from the host in the knavalbattle dir? [15:46] because I get an error saying: not a branch [15:47] shadeslayer: ^ [15:50] well, did you branch the packaging? [15:50] kbzr knavalbattle [15:50] erm [15:50] kbzr branch knavalbattle [15:52] it still says it's not a branch :( [15:52] shadeslayer: ^ [15:52] Riddell: still there? [15:52] ovidiu-florin: what are you doing 0.o [15:53] ovidiu-florin: kbzr branch knavalbattle;cd knavalbattle;hack hack hack; bzr commit; bzr push [15:53] shadeslayer: http://pastebin.kde.org/p37extzm5/ccf30l [15:54] no no no [15:55] ovidiu-florin: you haven't changed dir to the packaging folder :) [15:55] cd knavalbattle [15:55] and preferably not inside knavalbattle-4.11.80 [15:55] ok [15:55] done that [15:56] bzr: ERROR: No changes to commit. Please 'bzr add' the files you want to commit, or use --unchanged to force an empty commit. [15:56] did you copy over your changes ? [15:57] from the debian dir [15:57] do I just copy the files I've changed? [15:58] yes [15:58] then run bzr diff / bzr commit [15:58] then why not just give you a pastebin of the changes? [15:58] it's much simpler? [16:00] sure, but then you're learning the workflow this way [16:04] done [16:04] I've pushed [16:05] shadeslayer: how do I show it to you? [16:06] where did you push it to? [16:06] shadeslayer: https://code.launchpad.net/~ovidiub13/+junk/knavalbattle [16:06] ovidiu-florin: cool, looks good :) [16:07] ovidiu-florin: now, similar issue with kate [16:07] it has files that are new and are not installed [16:07] ok [16:07] I'll take a look [16:07] thank you [16:07] click "Show/Hide" [16:07] and there are a bunch of files in the list-missing output [16:07] copy paste them into a relevant install file [16:07] usually there are other similar files [16:08] so grep around for 'syntax' [16:08] and put them in that file [16:08] how do I get to that page again? [16:08]