[14:03] <mhall119> hangout URL for those who want to join: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpiab56q9hmau0kfu5chhrg8?authuser=1&hl=en
[14:04] <madness_dev> hi guys
[14:04] <madness_dev> where I can watch the  App Developer Roundtable Wed
[14:04] <mhall119> madness_dev: starting it now
[14:05] <mhall119> can you guys see us yet?
[14:06] <rickspencer3> o/
[14:06] <madness_dev> I hear you but can not see
[14:07] <beuno> can see you
[14:14] <vthompson> I don't think they have the apparmor isolation in the emulator yet though.
[14:24] <aquarius> hey, dudes
[14:26] <aquarius> I am planning to attend as many sessions as I can today :)
[14:26] <mhall119> any questions or things people in the channel want to discuss?
[14:26] <aquarius> sorry I wasn't around yesterday -- I was on a plane!
[14:26] <madness_dev1> i have a question but but not on the subject
[14:27]  * aquarius reviews the HTML5 session notes from yesterday :)
[14:28] <madness_dev1> michael u know my problem
[14:28] <madness_dev1> nice cat)
[14:29] <ahayzen> vthompson, o/
[14:29] <madness_dev1> yup
[14:29] <aquarius> having Oxide as the container for HTML5 is good. Are there plans to ensure that the "Ubuntu Browser" is (a) Oxide-based and (b) is documented on popular sites? Look at, say, MDN:  randomly chosen page is https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Screen.lockOrientation and it has browser support for that feature listed down the bottom. Is someone going to be looking at getting the Ubuntu Browser into
[14:29] <aquarius> that list, into caniuse.com, etc?
[14:29] <vthompson> ahayzen, yo
[14:29] <mhall119> http://askubuntu.com/questions/ask?tags=application-development
[14:30] <madness_dev1> i will try, thanks
[14:30] <aquarius> It's possible to say "Oxide is just Chromium", but then you have to promise that it'll track a chromium version exactly -- you're not allowed to, say, disable webgl, or webrtc, etc :)
[14:30] <madness_dev1> i have one more question
[14:30] <ahayzen> vthompson, i'm in a lecture so will likely be in the IRC channel for the mediascanner session
[14:31] <madness_dev1> how do u test your ubuntu touch apps?
[14:32] <vthompson> ahayzen, sounds good. We'll make sure to give any work items to Daniel then. :P
[14:32] <ahayzen> vthompson, i need to talk to u about some Grilo stuff, will u be around ~1700UTC?
[14:32] <anatoli> is the cat also an app dev?
[14:33] <aquarius> I'm not really asking a technical question about Oxide so much as an evangelism/community question about it ;)
[14:34] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Testing
[14:34] <popey> madness_dev1: ^^
[14:34] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Testing/Autopilot also
[14:34] <vthompson> ahayzen, I should be.
[14:34] <aquarius> This is really about making "Ubuntu Browser" be a recognised web browser, along the same lines as the Android browser, Chrome for Android, iOS Safari, etc. "It is WebKit" isn't enough; all of those are webkit too, and there are big differences between them :)
[14:35] <madness_dev1> but i have not device
[14:35] <beuno> aquarius, yes, we're working on that
[14:35] <beuno> with dbarth and other FE developers
[14:35] <beuno> adding it into popular js and css libraries, etc
[14:35] <aquarius> beuno, cool. It is a lot of work -- this is what happens when we have our own browser rather than someone else's -- and that work doesn't seem to have started, which is why I keep asking about it :)
[14:35] <ahayzen> vthompson, awesome, wanna try and land my performance improvements soon :)
[14:36] <beuno> aquarius, indeed
[14:37] <vthompson> ahayzen, we might not want to try to implement too many improvements to how we handle the Grilo model--the outcome of the session in the next 30 minutes might result in Grilo going away...
[14:37] <popey> ahayzen: vthompson will you guys be around for the next session in appdev-2 ?
[14:37] <popey> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22067/appdev-1311-coreapps-saucy-review/
[14:37] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpiab56q9hmau0kfu5chhrg8?authuser=1&hl=en
[14:37] <aquarius> beuno, you may find http://developer.nokia.com/Resources/Library/Web/#!nokia-browsers/nokia-browser-85-for-meego-12-harmattan.html instructive -- I mean, that's just nokia on a browser which is discontinued, and they provided loads of docs on which media queries it supports, etc.
[14:37] <ahayzen> popey, I'll be listening in and in the IRC channel, i'm in a lecture at the moment :)
[14:37] <popey> ah okay
[14:37] <vthompson> popey, I had planned on being in the mediascanner convo
[14:37] <madness_dev1> how can I  run and test app without device?
[14:37] <beuno> aquarius, nice one, thanks
[14:37] <popey> if you can type feedback into the etherpad that would be awesome
[14:38] <ahayzen> popey, oh yh and we have the mediascanner one at the same time
[14:38] <popey> thanks
[14:38] <popey> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-appdev-1311-coreapps-saucy-review
[14:38] <popey> ☻
[14:38] <aquarius> popey, I didn't do that because my comments are really about the HTML5 session yesterday, whichI was not in ;)
[14:38] <popey> feel free to type at that anytime
[14:40] <vthompson> mhall119, the mediascanner people might want to remove the dependency upon it. That is the topic to be discussed in 20 minutes in client-2
[14:40] <aquarius> QUESTION: is the Cordova work going on inside Canonical now roughly complete, or is there more still to go? Specifically, are common Cordova plugins also going to get ported, to make it easier to use them in cross-platform Cordova apps?
[14:40] <aquarius> (sorry for having questions about a session from yesterday :))
[14:40] <madness_dev1> but if i want to send system notification from my app to system notification tray how can i do this?
[14:42] <madness_dev1> i mean if i test app on desktop
[14:42] <vthompson> mhall119, here's the blueprint for the mediascanner/grilo discussion: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1311-mediascanner-roadmap
[14:44] <aquarius> QUESTION: are you guys talking to cordova about making build.phonegap.com able to generate Ubuntu click packages as well as packages for other platforms?
[14:45] <madness_dev1> thanks)
[14:46] <aquarius> schaweet! if build.phonegap makes click packages I shall be One Happy Bunny
[14:47] <aquarius> otherwise I'd have to write a client-side javascript ting to do it ;)
[14:48] <aquarius> QUESTION: the push notifications session from yesterday doesn't seem to have any etherpad notes? I can just review the video, but notes would be nice :)
[14:49] <aquarius> fair play -- I'll watch the video :)
[14:50] <aquarius> nah, if it's deep tech discussion then the video's better
[14:50]  * aquarius laughs. Technically no it wasn't a question :)
[14:50] <mhall119> having the video certainly is nice
[14:51]  * anatoli doesn't see the etherpad on the right at all
[14:51] <popey> there's a link to it underneath
[14:51] <popey> to "open in new window"
[14:51] <mhall119> anatoli: go to pad.ubuntu.com and login first, it doesn't like trying to log you in from the iframe
[14:52] <anatoli> that was it! now I see it after reloading
[14:52] <anatoli> thanks
[14:53] <popey> \o/
[14:53] <anatoli> we are live
[14:54] <mhall119> anatoli: the roundtable just ended
[14:54] <aquarius> later, peeps
[14:54] <ahayzen> thanks guys
[14:54] <anatoli> mhall119:hm weird I guess I'm seeing the start of it then? confusingly it says it's "live" so I thought it was the next session starting early
[14:57] <anatoli> anothe re-load and the "live" is fixed. maybe one day somebody can make the transition between sessions less broken
[14:57] <anatoli> suppose it might be youtube to blame
[14:58] <mhall119> anatoli: http://launchpad.net/summit we could definitely use more developers to improve it :)
[14:58]  * anatoli whistles
[15:02] <mhall119> Hangout URL: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpitpvk1f8gi67n41r5dqrl0?authuser=1&hl=en
[15:07]  * karni awaits stream
[15:07] <aquarius> summit page is hanging after showing the header :(
[15:08] <mhall119> I've updated the links in summit, you might need to refresh
[15:08] <karni> mhall119: are you live yet?
[15:08] <aquarius> aha, page is up, with youtube video placeholder image showing
[15:08]  * anatoli doesn't see video yet
[15:08] <karni> aquarius: anatoli: same yere
[15:08] <karni> *here
[15:09] <mzanetti> +1
[15:09] <karni> yere, I'm a pirrrrate
[15:09] <mhall119> hang on, wrong session
[15:09] <aquarius> aha, stream!
[15:09] <mhall119> how about now?
[15:09] <aquarius> hey mhall
[15:09] <anatoli> works
[15:09] <karni> mhall119: good
[15:09] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpitpvk1f8gi67n41r5dqrl0?authuser=1&hl=en
[15:10] <anatoli> yep
[15:10] <aquarius> mhall119, on the stream you've just said "I'm on the wrong one" ;)
[15:10] <anatoli> somebody get the phone!
[15:10] <aquarius> we can see you now :)
[15:10] <mzanetti> yes
[15:11] <dobey> sweet, so i didn't actually miss anything yet
[15:11] <karni> dobey: correct
[15:12] <aquarius> QUESTION: when you talk about "HTML5" having access to the content hub and so on, you mean "HTML5 in a native app", right? Not "a webpage which can do Unity integration"?
[15:13] <aquarius> I can join if you want, but I have a whole bunch of questions to ask :)
[15:13] <jonobacon> aquarius: I think you should join
[15:13] <jonobacon> would be handy
[15:13] <jonobacon> I would join but I am feeding Jack right now
[15:14] <dobey> QUESTION: If I'm building a Qt library for app develpors to use from C++, what is the standard way to provide build system integration that will work with cmake and qmake both? In gtk+/glib libraries for example, the standard is to provide pkg-config data, but Qt apps tend to rely on a couple other means for providing that data.
[15:14] <mzanetti> dobey: you can use pkg-config
[15:15] <mzanetti> or cmake native things (like find_something())
[15:15] <dobey> mzanetti: is that preferred/standard though?
[15:15] <karni> aquarius: good to see you :D
[15:15] <dobey> i don't want to have to do 10 different things. but i'm happy to just do pkg-config if that's the standard/accepted/preferred way
[15:15] <mzanetti> dobey: the problem is actually the "bring your own dependencies"
[15:15] <mzanetti> dobey: so all that stuff won't really work
[15:16] <karni> did you get muted aquarius ?
[15:16] <dobey> mzanetti: well, presume it's a library that's in the core image :)
[15:16] <mzanetti> dobey: ok. yes. in that case use cmake's find_something or, if that's not there, pkcconfig
[15:18] <dobey> mzanetti: well, there's also qt-in-cmake stuff that isn't exactly find_something, but is qt_use_module or something like that
[15:18] <mzanetti> dobey: ah, yeah. that's qt's internal stuff. in qmake just use "QT += module1 module3 ..."
[15:19] <dobey> right, there's qt internal stuff in qmake, then there's sa qt-in-cmake thing, then there's findWhatEver in cmake, then there's pkgconfig
[15:19] <jonobacon> aquarius: turn your mic up
[15:19] <aquarius> jonobacon, will try
[15:20] <mzanetti> dobey: yeah... well... in cmake the Qt internal's are included with the find_package(). and that is the preferred thing for everything. however, when that's not there, you can still use pkgconfig
[15:22] <jonobacon> I dont think we should use "cordova" as a term
[15:22] <jonobacon> it is an implementation detail of how we access sensors
[15:22] <karni> aquarius: 'PhoneGap' is a child name for 'Cordova'
[15:22] <karni> jonobacon: +1
[15:22] <jonobacon> they are "HTML5 apps"
[15:22]  * karni agrees
[15:22] <dobey> mzanetti: well, you need to do something like find_package(Qt5Core REQUIRED) first, then you can do qt5_use_modules(DBus Xml Network) for example
[15:22] <dobey> mzanetti: which is a little different than pure find_package
[15:23] <jonobacon> aquarius: no they are not
[15:23] <mzanetti> dobey: true. although I don't understand the problem
[15:23] <jonobacon> most people don't know what cordova is
[15:23] <jonobacon> most people know HTML5, not cordova
[15:23] <jonobacon> the way I see it, we have:
[15:23] <jonobacon> * QML Native
[15:23] <jonobacon> * HTML5 Apps
[15:24] <jonobacon> * Web Integration
[15:24] <jonobacon> * Scopes
[15:24] <jonobacon> in any case, I am not sure this is the most important problem to solve ;-)
[15:24] <dobey> mzanetti: i want to know what the standard/preferred way to do things is, and do that; rather than just doing everything for everyone, because i don't want to do 10 different things. i want to do one, and have it be easy to use
[15:25] <mzanetti> dobey: afaik cmake is the preferred thing. and in there you gotta use what is available.
[15:25] <jonobacon> I agree it is confusing, but I think we just need to pick terms and stick to them
[15:25] <jonobacon> damn you both
[15:25] <jonobacon> :-)
[15:27] <mzanetti> I think it's quite obvious that qtcreator is supposed to do that but just not there yet
[15:27] <mzanetti> aquarius: ^
[15:27] <dobey> mzanetti: then can we just declare somewhere that libraries written in qt on ubuntu that are meant to be used by people writing apps for ubuntu, should use pkg-config?
[15:27] <mhall119> dobey: if that is the case then yes
[15:28] <dobey> well let's make it the case :)
[15:28] <mzanetti> I think our biggest problem is that we want to support HTML, Qt, Go, Python and whatnot
[15:28] <dobey> well i don't care about html go python and whatnot
[15:28] <dobey> i care about qt/qml right now
[15:28] <mzanetti> dobey: that was in reponse to the video stream
[15:28] <dobey> oh
[15:30] <jonobacon> mhall119: totally agree
[15:30] <jonobacon> we only trade on production features
[15:30] <jonobacon> we need a distutils-extra type script that generates a manifest
[15:31] <anatoli> "is it a bug or not" is something to find out on eg. askubuntu.com or irc , isn't it - and possibly file a bug about lack of docs or weird behavior
[15:31] <anatoli> doesn't seem to me like a new problem
[15:31] <anatoli> you get the same with Qt
[15:32]  * mzanetti doesn't agree
[15:33] <mzanetti> I agree that the message should be "its not there yet" but not "go away"
[15:33] <jonobacon> aquarius: I am not sure I agree - we often tell people if something is ready yet
[15:33] <jonobacon> for example, location
[15:33] <jonobacon> but I agr
[15:33] <jonobacon> but I agree with the point of providing clarity about what is in and what isnt
[15:33] <jonobacon> maybe a page on d.u.c could help here
[15:33] <jonobacon> that provides an overview of platform coverage
[15:34] <anatoli> instead of "go away" I would prefer "watch this bug/blueprint"
[15:34] <jonobacon> mhall119: yeah
[15:34] <jonobacon> that indicates what is in what hasnt arrived yet
[15:35] <jonobacon> we would need to keep it up to date, but I know an awesome guy who could do that
[15:35] <jonobacon> who lives in Florida
[15:35] <jonobacon> who doesn't do QA
[15:35] <jonobacon> :-)
[15:35] <jonobacon> anatoli: we should not ask developers to watch Ubuntu platform bugs
[15:35] <jonobacon> they shouldnt have to care
[15:36] <jonobacon> trolololol
[15:36] <Kulithian> what about a goal orientated schedule that updated periodically to show whats behind the goal? the goal doesn't have to be specific, maybe just a "lets get half way done by next week"
[15:36] <anatoli> it's hard not to care about missing features, though :-)
[15:36] <jonobacon> brb
[15:37] <mzanetti> QUESTION: so the topic is also "identifying what's missing". IMO there's too much Qt apis missing. Like sensors, location, connectivity. How will that suffer given that we're focusing on HTML and apparently Go now?
[15:38] <rickspencer3> write a program that generates a page when something in the sdk is changed?
[15:39] <mhall119> status.ubuntu.com
[15:41] <mzanetti> yes, true
[15:42] <mzanetti> ok. that's good to hear :)
[15:42] <rickspencer3> it was about documentation
[15:42] <rickspencer3> let me join
[15:43] <karni> rickspencer3: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpitpvk1f8gi67n41r5dqrl0?authuser=1&hl=en
[15:44] <anatoli> qdoc at least compile-checks all examples
[15:45] <Kulithian> what if those features/changes are then pulled from the build?
[15:45] <Kulithian> would the application recognize that change and adapt the doc?
[15:45] <anatoli> "some" lag
[15:46] <Kulithian> and how much bloat and resources will something like that need?
[15:48] <anatoli> u1db has been qdoc'ed for ages, but the website is a bit of a mess excuse me saying that for finding stuff
[15:49] <anatoli> and urls keep changing
[15:49] <dobey> automate all the docs!
[15:49] <anatoli> it's a bad sign if people say "no docs" about stuff that's been there forever
[15:51] <mhall119> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-appdev-1311-getting-feedback
[15:52] <anatoli> aquarius: about qdoc compiling I was actually thinking qml. I'm not sure if it does check C++ actually
[15:52] <mhall119> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/Ubuntu.Content.index/
[15:53] <kenvandine> mhall119, not yet
[15:53] <kenvandine> mhall119, i have a branch :)
[15:54] <kenvandine> the overview pages explains the overall concept, but creating an export hasn't been implemented
[15:54] <kenvandine> mhall119, the API doesn't include that
[15:55] <kenvandine> but the page explaining what content hub is doesn't specifically say it only works in one direction
[15:55] <kenvandine> s/API/API docs/
[15:55] <mhall119> kenvandine: it would be good to have a disclaimer in the docs about that
[15:55] <mhall119> so app developers know their limitations
[15:55] <jonobacon> rickspencer3: no chance
[15:55] <jonobacon> :-)
[15:55] <kenvandine> noted
[15:55] <jonobacon> app devs should *never* run the development snapshot
[15:55] <kenvandine> aquarius, you're crazy... i haven't had problems like that in a couple cycles
[15:56] <jonobacon> Rick upgrades to trusty and now expects every app dev to
[15:56] <jonobacon> lol
[15:56] <jonobacon> Bacon Wisdom
[15:56] <jonobacon> once again
[15:56] <jonobacon> lol
[15:56] <mhall119> rickspencer3 still wants his rolling release
[15:56] <dobey> kenvandine: not until ui/feature freeze at least, when everything lands at the last minute and the world explodes :)
[15:57] <kenvandine> mhall119, rolling rick!
[15:57] <kenvandine> gotta get rick rolled :)
[15:57] <rickspencer3> just get on dev instead of trusty
[15:59] <anatoli> btw this looks like it kinda broke http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/UbuntuUserInterfaceToolkit/ there's only one link there
[15:59] <mhall119> http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/qml/cookbook/ui-components-and-shell-integration/
[16:01] <aquarius> woah my laptop is hot
[16:01] <mhall119> anatoli: it's not broke, the other pages are in different namespace sections like Ubuntu.Components and Ubuntu.Layouts
[16:02] <dobey> so who needs to declare whether to use pkg-config/find_package/qt5_use_modules/qmake qt modules/etc…?
[16:02] <anatoli> mhall119:so is this also intended? http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/Components.Components/
[16:02] <anatoli> it looks bizarrely fragmented to me
[16:02] <aquarius> that's a bug, that
[16:02] <aquarius> I noticed that one :)
[16:02] <dobey> can it be me? is it rickspencer3 ?
[16:02] <aquarius> I think it's because that component isn't qdocced in the proper category or something
[16:04] <mhall119> anatoli: that's from the qdocs, I don't think it's supposed to be that way, but it's how the docs are generated atm
[16:06] <anatoli> so that's the "is it a bug or not" from earlier. it looks broken to me without knowing how it's generated but it might be intended :-)
[16:06] <aquarius> this is what I mean :)
[16:07] <zyga> hi
[16:07] <zyga> is the session starting?
[16:07] <mhall119> zyga: in just a minute
[16:07] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpifd675e2ice19gjl03or74?authuser=1&hl=en for anybody who wants to join me in the hangout
[16:07] <zyga> ok
[16:08] <mhall119> going live now
[16:08] <aquarius> it's basically a function of how we get to be participants in Ubuntu's development process, and how we get to use a thing before it's finished: if, say, MSDN and the universe disagree, then that's a definite MSDN bug, but if d.u.c and the universe disagree then we might be in the middle of fixing it, because the process is open. I don't know how to avoid that with an open process, but... it's much more of a
[16:08] <aquarius> problem now, because previously anyone who cared about ubuntu docs was developing Ubuntu itself, and now we have mostly app devs who don't care about the stuff being in flux and just want docs that work :(
[16:09] <pmcgowan> not getting the feed, unsupported format
[16:09] <jono_> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpifd675e2ice19gjl03or74?authuser=1&hl=en
[16:09] <mhall119> pmcgowan: try reloading the page?
[16:09] <pmcgowan> mhall119, must be me, will work it out
[16:10] <mhall119> can anybody else see the video?
[16:10] <zyga> works for me
[16:10]  * mzanetti likes the Ubuntu.Components a lot
[16:14] <pmcgowan> mhall119, can I join you guys
[16:15] <mhall119> pmcgowan: sure: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpifd675e2ice19gjl03or74?authuser=1&hl=en
[16:44] <mhall119> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-appdev-1311-getting-feedback
[16:55] <mhall119> lunch time
[17:57] <balloons> anyone who wants in on the session, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpia3gmh9ble9uih0df5s220?authuser=0&hl=en
[18:00] <mhall119> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-appdev-1311-core-apps-test-review
[18:03] <balloons> anyone who wants in: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpia3gmh9ble9uih0df5s220?authuser=0&hl=en
[18:03] <balloons> the more the merrier
[18:04] <thomi> balloons: mind if I add something to the notes/agenda?
[18:04] <balloons> thomi, go for it
[18:06] <thomi> elopio: you need to mute your mic :)
[18:06] <thomi> or type quieter :)
[18:07] <balloons> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/maguro/26:20131120.1:20131120.1/5059/
[18:07] <balloons> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/maguro/26:20131120.1:20131120.1/5059/ubuntu-weather-app-autopilot/
[18:11] <popey> i had to drop out to run another session
[18:12] <thomi> mhall119: coverage at this level is determined by features.
[18:14] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Testing
[18:15]  * thomi is sick of typing... joins hangout...
[18:15] <nik90> thomi: :)
[18:26] <veebers> balloons: I don't see stock-ticker-mobile-app on this list: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/maguro/26:20131120.1:20131120.1/5059/
[18:27] <balloons> veebers, same.. it's not pushed across to the public interface for some reson
[18:28] <robotfuel> do we just mock that when the test is run on the desktop?
[18:39] <pbass> thomi: i'll see you next hour
[18:40] <thomi> pbass: ok
[18:40]  * thomi guesses who 'pbasss' is
[18:42] <robotfuel> the rss reader can be mocked like the stock ticker app?
[18:42] <balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rssreader-app/+bug/1248737
[18:42] <udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1248737 in Ubuntu RSS Feed Reader App "Allow to add feeds from the local file system" [High,Confirmed]
[18:43] <robotfuel> the web browser app also has mocks that can be used as an example
[18:46] <veebers> elopio, et. al: I'm working on mocking the stock-ticker tests to use a local 'server': https://code.launchpad.net/~veebers/stock-ticker-mobile-app/mock-server-for-testing/+merge/194971
[18:47] <robotfuel> veebers: +1 :)
[18:47] <veebers> perhaps we can do something similar for rss reader?
[18:47] <balloons> thomi, ^^
[18:47] <elopio> veebers: great :)
[18:47] <elopio> veebers: mmcc and gatox are doing that for the app updater. Did I mention that already?
[18:47] <elopio> it would be nice to get a common way to mock servers.
[18:48] <robotfuel> the web browser app has something similar to veebers mock server as well. so there are 2 good examples of how to do it.
[18:48] <veebers> elopio: agreed. I based my code off what was in the webbrowser test
[18:48] <veebers> s
[18:48] <veebers> robotfuel: heh, there is a reason it's similar :-) I based it off that
[18:48] <elopio> veebers: sounds like we should make a session about mocking external services.
[18:48] <thomi> veebers: lets work on this together then, next time you're round here
[18:49] <veebers> elopio: sweet, as long as it's not at 3am for me ;-)
[18:49] <veebers> thomi: sounds like a plan
[18:50] <dkessel> not sure if it is helpful: there is info on mocking google api calls here: https://developers.google.com/api-client-library/python/guide/mocks
[18:50] <thomi> dkessel: nice, I was going to use the stdlib, but I'll look into that as well
[18:52] <vthompson> balloons, filemanager issue was a mir issue wasn't it?
[18:57] <robotfuel> balloons: the math test should probably done with qmltestrunner.
[18:58] <thomi> robotfuel: with unit tests, please
[18:58] <thomi> qmltestrunner is only used for ui component testing,
[18:59] <elopio> robotfuel, thomi: that's a good thing to discuss, what test tool should we use for javascript unit tests?
[18:59] <thomi> elopio: lets talk about it laters
[18:59] <thomi> *later, in fact
[18:59] <vthompson> balloons, interfacing with the various tabs and the items in the playing queue should all get tests
[18:59] <vthompson> balloons, for music-app
[19:00] <veebers> balloons: I added my MRs for the stock-ticker that I need to follow up
[19:02] <balloons> veebers, I saw, ty
[19:03] <balloons> vthompson, please add to pad, and ty!
[19:03] <veebers> balloons: nw
[19:04]  * balloons waves to dkessel 
[19:05] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpilpc6qhdd33ubub4r6jvpo?authuser=1&hl=en to join the hangout
[19:05] <mhall119> will be live in just a minute
[19:05] <mhall119> jono_: did you want to join this one?
[19:08] <mhall119> should be livenow
[19:08] <rschroll> you
[19:08] <rschroll> 're on
[19:10] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpilpc6qhdd33ubub4r6jvpo?authuser=1&hl=en
[19:11] <rschroll> Not about development, but I've written my criticism on scoring here: http://rschroll.github.io/beru/2013/11/14/evaluating-the-app-showdown-evaluation.html
[19:12] <rschroll> yes, Robert
[19:13] <daker> the scoring part
[19:13] <rschroll> sorry, I have too many consonants
[19:13] <rschroll> Basically, I was disappointed that scores weren't reported, publically or privately
[19:14] <rschroll> Jono had a blog post that tried to explain this, but I found it unconvincing
[19:14] <daker> be more transparent
[19:14] <daker> i can't mhall119
[19:15] <rschroll> Give score , mean and standard deviation
[19:17] <rschroll> I've tried to explain in the blog post what you can do with this information.
[19:17] <rschroll> Basically, what areas should I focus on improving?
[19:18] <rschroll> For written feedback, I've tried to follow up to find more details, but haven't heard back.
[19:21] <rschroll> It'd be nice to have the content hub working.
[19:23] <mhall119> 1ttps://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpilpc6qhdd33ubub4r6jvpo?authuser=1&hl=en
[19:23] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpilpc6qhdd33ubub4r6jvpo?authuser=1&hl=en
[19:24] <rschroll> I'm on the wrong end of a narrow internet pipe.
[19:24] <rschroll> It's difficult enough to get you streaming to me, I'm afraid
[19:25] <mhall119> that's ok
[19:25] <daker> mhall119: the click packaging + uploading story is very good for me
[19:25] <daker> even excellent i can build package for webapps and get them into the store in minutes
[19:27] <daker> games
[19:27] <rschroll> Re theme: No ideas.  I chose something I wanted for myself for this one.
[19:28] <daker> +1 on games
[19:29] <rschroll> There could be a games category and a general category.
[19:29] <Lord_Ankalus> i think 3 categories is nice idea: games, nativ app, html5 app
[19:30] <vthompson> mhall119, what about some small category for ports? Maybe a smaller prize for best port?
[19:30] <daker> ya also i like the idea of categories so the showdown will be not restrictive
[19:32] <vthompson> Now that it sounds like Box2D will be landing on the phone maybe you'll get more neat ports and new games
[19:33] <vthompson> What about an additional prize of $10 to spend at the click store--once that lands.
[19:36] <Lord_Ankalus> What do you think of tablets as ubuntu 14.04 focuses on them
[19:37] <vthompson> +1 on tablets if the showdown is after 14.04 lands
[19:37] <rschroll> Re prizes: I competed to make myself learn some new things.  The phone would have been a nice bonus, but I would have done it without the prize
[19:37] <rschroll> you just said "awful lag"
[19:41] <rschroll> Many students have January off.
[19:41] <rschroll> (college)
[19:44] <vthompson> What if judging could be assisted by app reviews in the store?
[19:45] <rschroll> Thanks, mhall
[19:47] <mhall119> anything else?
[19:48] <vthompson> Not from me--everything sounds good
[19:50] <Lord_Ankalus> bye