[14:02] <christina> hi everyone
[14:02] <christina> welcome to today's design track
[14:03] <christina> we will be starting shortly
[14:04] <davidcalle> Hi all
[14:05] <christina> davidcalle, hey!
[14:05] <katie> sorry, we're having a few technical difficulties with the hangout
[14:06] <katie> we'll be online very shortly!
[14:06] <katie> and we're live!
[14:08] <dobey> christina: mute yourself please
[14:09] <dobey> christina: your typing is quite distracting :)
[14:11] <christina> dobey, is this better
[14:12] <nik90> Hi everyone
[14:12] <davidcalle> christina, it is, thanks
[14:12] <christina> nik90, hey
[14:12] <christina> nik90, welcome
[14:12] <dobey> christina: yes much better now
[14:13] <nik90> christina: hi :)
[14:13] <christina> let us know if you got any questions at any time
[14:19] <nik90> hmm, I am not seeing the sidebar in the design.ubuntu.com/apps to navigate to other pages
[14:21] <yaili_> nik90: looking into it now
[14:22] <nik90> yaili_: thnx
[14:23] <christina> any questions on apps guys?
[14:23] <christina> nik90, do you have any questions for us?
[14:24] <nik90> christina: framing one now..1 min
[14:24] <davidcalle> What new things can we expect soon on design.ubuntu.com?
[14:25] <christina> davidcalle, patterns?
[14:25] <dobey> QUESTION: are there any standards or recommendations for visualation of data in graphs/charts, as i don't believe the sdk or qml provide any standard graphing widgets?
[14:26] <davidcalle> Thanks, looking forward to it
[14:26] <christina> dobey, can you give us an example  or context?
[14:26] <nik90> christina: Question: Regarding deep navigation, how many maximum pages is appropriate? For instance in my app, a user can navigate to Home Tab -> TV Shows -> Seasons List -> Season Information -> Episode List. As you can when the user in the episode list page, he is quite deep in the navigation which makes it harder to go back to home tab. Any way to improve this?
[14:26] <nik90> christina: sorry for the long question :P
[14:27] <dobey> christina: if i was writing a fitbit app or financial app for example, and wanted to show a graph of progress
[14:27] <christina> nik90, thanks- coming up next :)
[14:28] <yaili_> katie: yes!
[14:31] <nik90> christina, katie: thnx. I think the expansion widget is not yet available in the SDK. But I think I can create a custom one temporarily.
[14:32] <christina> thanks nik90
[14:32] <nik90> christina: Question: When does one use Sheets?
[14:37] <dobey> are you all in the same room, on opposite sides of the table?
[14:37] <rickspencer3> katie, can I join to ask a couple of questions?
[14:38] <dobey> christina: ^^
[14:38] <nik90> christina: Question: Would it be possible to send a click package for the designers to run and get a feel of the app rather than app screenshots since my app is getting bigger and bigger?
[14:38] <nik90> christina: for the design clinic ^^
[14:39] <christina> rickspencer3, yes
[14:39] <christina> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpimosh0c45iim5j21d4j490?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
[14:39] <christina> rickspencer3, ^ or anyone who wants to join
[14:39] <christina> dobey, ahh yes :)
[14:40] <dobey> heh
[14:40] <nik90> christina, katie: awesome. thnx
[14:40] <christina> dobey, hard to fit in one side ;)
[14:41] <rickspencer3> arg
[14:41] <rickspencer3> christina, I'm updating my desktop .... and it just temporarily rendered it hard for me to join :(
[14:42] <christina> rickspencer3, :(
[14:42] <dobey> i can see rickspencer3 is enjoying the quality of google hangouts :)
[14:42] <christina> rickspencer3, can you let us know the questions here then?
[14:42] <rickspencer3> dobey, well, in fairness, I'm in the middle of updating to trusty ;)
[14:42] <dobey> rickspencer3: great timing ;)
[14:43] <rickspencer3> oh well
[14:44] <rickspencer3> christina, I would like to say that I am impressed with how generous the design team is
[14:44] <rickspencer3> always willing to help folks out in improving their applications
[14:44] <christina> rickspencer3, aww thanks :)
[14:45] <rickspencer3> hey christina maybe if you paste me a link I can try joining
[14:46] <rickspencer3> the button in the web browser is not working for me :(
[14:46] <dobey> rickspencer3: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpimosh0c45iim5j21d4j490?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
[14:46] <christina> rickspencer3, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpimosh0c45iim5j21d4j490?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
[14:46] <rickspencer3> going to be risky because apt is working really hard on my 'puter though :)
[14:46] <christina> rickspencer3, cant hear you
[14:47] <rickspencer3> it's green in the hangout, so the hangout thinks it can hear me
[14:47] <dobey> i can hear you
[14:47] <yaili_> I can hear
[14:47] <nik90> christina: I can hear rickspencer3
[14:47] <dobey> rickspencer3: you're good
[14:48] <christina> nik90, dobey we are sorted now...think it was us :)
[14:50] <dobey> rickspencer3: it sounds like the main issue would be solved by overriding the "go back" feature, so that when when you swipe back from the details page that you got to from a favorite, it goes back to the main page, rather than the search results page
[14:51] <dobey> rickspencer3: maybe if you can avoid creating tabs until they need to exist; or switch to an expansion widget for stop details
[14:54] <dobey> rickspencer3: default to using location service to find closest stops
[14:57] <rickspencer3> oops apt caught up with me
[14:57] <dobey> rickspencer3: the search entry in the dash scrolls off too
[14:58]  * rickspencer3 shrugs
[14:58] <rickspencer3> thanks dobey
[14:58] <dobey> not sure if there's a good way to solve that without making a big change to the sdk to deal with it :-/
[14:58] <dobey> maybe zoltan or someone on sdk team would know
[14:58] <nik90> thnx a lot for the guidelines.
[14:59] <rickspencer3> dobey, maybe there is nothing to solve, that's just the design
[15:00] <dobey> rickspencer3: well, designs can be buggy/wrong too :)
[15:00] <dobey> i think it's worth fixing
[15:00] <dobey> having to scroll all the way back to the top to refine the search is pretty annoying
[15:02] <dobey> anyway, session is over. time for me to move channels again :)
[15:02] <christina> hey everyone
[15:03] <christina> thanks for joining us for the next design session on responsive website and web guideline
[15:03] <christina> if anyone wants to join our hangout, heres the link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/508h3bmoouqldar54mh3858aa4?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
[15:05] <christina> and i (christina) is going to be yaili_  so if anyone wants to ask anyquestions pls ask yaili_ and not christina (if that makes sense)
[15:08] <yaili_> www.resources.ubuntu.com
[15:09] <yaili_> our responsive mobile website
[15:10] <YoBoY> hi
[15:10] <yaili_> YoBoY: hello
[15:11] <yaili_> welcome
[15:11] <YoBoY> (sorry i'm late ^^")
[15:11] <yaili_> YoBoY: no worries, glad you could join us.
[15:11] <yaili_> do you want to join our hangout too_
[15:11] <yaili_> _
[15:11] <yaili_> f anyone wants to join our hangout, heres the link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/508h3bmoouqldar54mh3858aa4?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
[15:12] <YoBoY> thanks but not at the moment
[15:13] <yaili_> any feedback for us, pls shout
[15:13] <yaili_> design.ubuntu.com/web-style-guide
[15:14] <YoBoY> I'm already on the page, thanks :)
[15:14] <yaili_> YoBoY: great! yay!
[15:16] <yaili_> YoBoY: let us know if you got any questions or feedback then
[15:17] <YoBoY> well, some, i'm reading the website, and I don't see the "responsive" work, it's just fixed with
[15:17] <YoBoY> this is still a work in progress website ?
[15:19] <YoBoY> ok :)
[15:27] <YoBoY> question : do you have a version of the ubuntu-styles.css not compressed (human readable) ?
[15:30] <YoBoY> ok, it could be added on the website site I think
[15:30] <yaili_> yep we will do that
[15:31] <YoBoY> thanks :)
[15:33] <YoBoY> Question : Do you use or recommand a CSS pre-processor to create this framework ?
[15:33] <yaili_> Sass
[15:34] <YoBoY> sorry a bit of lag between the video and irc ;)
[15:34] <YoBoY> ok, and can you share your .scss files ?
[15:35] <YoBoY> it can help to create custom themes for loco websites
[15:35] <yaili_> do you want to join us on hangout_
[15:35] <yaili_> then no lag and can answer more questions face to face if you like
[15:35] <YoBoY> the video is bad :]
[15:36] <YoBoY> ok, I'll join, but my english is bad ;)
[15:36] <yaili_> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/508h3bmoouqldar54mh3858aa4?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
[15:37] <YoBoY> sorry, not used to join ^^"
[15:38] <YoBoY> don't seem to work :\
[15:38] <yaili_> sorry we are having a connection problem
[15:38] <YoBoY> yes I can see that :p
[15:44] <YoBoY> thanks you :)
[15:44] <yaili_> thanks
[15:58] <yaili_> YoBoY: hi there, we'll be getting the human readable and .scss files up there soon! would you like me to let you know when it's live?
[15:59] <YoBoY> yaili_, sure :)
[16:04] <christina> hey everyone
[16:04] <christina> we are about to start our next session
[16:04] <christina> thanks for joining us
[16:08] <christina> hi everyone
[16:08] <la_juyis> a quick question: why was iOS users left out of the research? (for when questions are allowed, of course :))
[16:08] <christina> la_juyis, thanks for the question
[16:08] <christina> i will get that asked shortly
[16:09] <la_juyis> christina, thanks
[16:09] <christina> la_juyis, do you mean iOS platform?
[16:09] <la_juyis> christina, correct
[16:09] <christina> because we have included ios users
[16:10] <christina> la_juyis, sure then
[16:11] <la_juyis> christina, i mean, you say Ubuntu phone was compared against Windows 8 and Android - why not to compare it against iOS?
[16:11] <christina> la_juyis, yes i understand now :)
[16:11] <christina> i will ask that for you
[16:11] <christina> keep the questions coming!
[16:16] <la_juyis> I'm also interested on why you focused on that group of demographics. (maybe it's they're our target when designing the Ubuntu phone, which I was unaware of :))
[16:17] <christina> la_juyis, sure
[16:17] <christina> la_juyis, i think we might take questions at the end#
[16:17] <la_juyis> :)
[16:17] <christina> so keep the questions and i will make a note of them
[16:19] <christina> keep the questions coming i meant la_juyis
[16:30] <christina> la_juyis, actualyl do you want to join our hangout
[16:30] <christina> then you can ask questions directly :0
[16:30] <christina> :)
[16:30] <christina> makes it much nicer for us too!
[16:31] <la_juyis> oh, np, I wouldn't like to interrupt :)
[16:32] <christina> la_juyis, oh maybe when we take questions?
[16:33] <la_juyis> christina, sure
[16:33] <christina> la_juyis, great thanks
[16:33] <christina> la_juyis, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpjfe5hkq6mqh6h7doke9o94?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
[16:33] <christina> la_juyis, for when u need it ;)
[16:41] <christina> anyone who wants to join us: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpjfe5hkq6mqh6h7doke9o94?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
[16:45] <micah2> QUESTION: What are the current ideas for improving back button (in the bottom toolbar) usability?
[16:48] <micah2> QUESTION: what are current ideas for making the toolbar more discoverable in Ubuntu Touch (I apologize if these ideas were already discussed, I had to miss part of the session)
[16:49] <micah2> What if there was a little orange line or something like that at the very bottom of the screen when a toolbar is available?
[16:53] <micah2> You've answered my questions! I coded up an example of how I think the toolbar could be improved (orange bar ideas, etc.) Should I email that to you? I emailed Jono, and he forwarded it to John Lea, but I haven't heard back.
[16:55] <micah2> Here is a link to the video demo I made
[16:55] <micah2> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwAfnOGPZNCWLS1PcU9EOE1VNnNaVWt1N1RfZUZjelNGZVVV/edit?usp=sharing
[16:56] <micah2> my email is micah.losli@gmail.com
[16:57] <micah2> thank you!
[17:01] <katie> micah2, great video
[17:01] <micah2> thank!
[17:01] <micah2> *thanks!
[17:03] <micah2> Do the designers ever write qml code for active mock-ups?
[17:05] <christina> micah2, hey
[17:05] <christina> yes, some of us do.... :)
[17:05] <micah2> hi, christina
[17:05] <christina> rachel and versa on our team do prototyping for us too
[17:06] <micah2> The source of the demo is available on github, if playing with that would be at all helpful.
[17:06] <micah2> https://github.com/Micahnator/Toolbar1
[17:08] <micah2> I hope I'm not being obnoxious, I just want to help make the UT experience great.
[17:09] <katie> micah2, i like it, it's great to see your experiments and prototypes and designs :)
[17:12] <katie> micah2, most of the designers hang out on the #ubuntu-touch channel normally, if you want to talk, share any more work
[17:12] <davidcalle> micah2, hi, very interesting mockup. Just a comment on page B hint. Maybe it's just due to the fact the the page is mostly blank, but I feel that this hint could be misinterpreted as a loading animation for the page.
[17:12] <davidcalle> that the*
[17:13] <t1mp> micah2: hello, I just saw your video with ideas to indicate that there is a toolbar in an app
[17:13] <micah2> mmm, you make a good point davidcalle.
[17:13] <t1mp> micah2: I'm the guy who's implementing the toolbars in ubuntu-ui-toolkit
[17:14] <micah2> hi, t1mp
[17:14] <t1mp> micah2: there have been some changes recently, and more will come.
[17:14] <t1mp> micah2: one change is that now when you switch pages, the toolbar will always show for 5 seconds, so you know that it is there.
[17:14] <t1mp> micah2: I don't know if that will stay, but it seems to me that it helps already
[17:14] <micah2> I've heard that there was going to be experiments with that behaviour
[17:14] <t1mp> micah2: still, personally I think it would be nice if there is some indication that always tells you whether there is a toolbar that you can swipe in
[17:15] <micah2> My opinion is that showing the toolbar for 5 seconds will get annoying as you get comfortable with the app, you won't need it anymore.
[17:15] <t1mp> micah2: with the latest UITK packages there are some changes already. Whether you have it depends on the repository where you get the qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin package
[17:15] <micah2> which repo has the latest stuff?
[17:15] <t1mp> micah2: maybe. hard to tell without user tests
[17:16] <t1mp> micah2: you on saucy?
[17:16] <micah2> I have upgraded to Saucy, yes.
[17:16] <t1mp> ok, then it is in the SDK PPA. Let me search for it.
[17:17] <micah2> As an app developer, I feel like the toolbar showing for 5 seconds will get in the way of making things clean, beautiful, and leverage the whole screen.
[17:18] <micah2> I'm working on Panpipe, a pandora client. Right now I put media controls in the bottom of the "now playing" page. The toolbar would be fighting for that same space.
[17:19] <t1mp> micah2: it is this PPA https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/+archive/ppa
[17:19] <micah2> There are probably other apps that do things differently that won't mind the 5 second peek....but it doesn't work well with my current design ideas.
[17:20] <t1mp> micah2: suggestions for improvements are always welcome :)
[17:20] <t1mp> micah2: but discuss with the designers mainly first. They are better at that stuff and know how to do user tests :)
[17:21] <micah2> thanks for the link t1mp, I wrote it down for when I get home.
[17:23] <micah2> I'm happy to discuss my recommendations with anyone. If any of the designers do incorporate my ideas into user testing, I'd love to hear what they do and what the results are.