[07:01] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:04] <brobostigon> morning everyone,
[08:06] <diplo> Morning all
[08:06] <brobostigon> morning diplo
[08:10] <popey> pip pip
[08:10] <brobostigon> morning hrh popey
[08:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm late today - anyway morning.
[08:13] <Myrtti> merh
[08:16] <MooDoo> morning morning
[08:16] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:16] <MooDoo> pah why is no one here to say morning at 6am ;)
[08:17] <MooDoo> well 7am lol
[08:17] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I was locked out of the office, and my laptop battery was empty
[08:18] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: unacceptable ;)
[08:19] <brobostigon> connecbot on his nexus5 :)
[08:19] <brobostigon> connectbot*
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: obviously, otherwise I'd been working from the hallway (wifi penetrates walls now!) ;)
[08:20] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: what's wifi?  Don't you use a long cat5 cable under the door like me :)
[08:22] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: this laptop doesn't have ethernet
[08:23] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: wow what laptop? <curious>
[08:24] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Dell XPS-12
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> ordered when you couldn't get the previous "Developer Edition" XPS-13 anymore, and before the new one was announced
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> *sigh*
[08:27] <MooDoo> ah!
[08:32] <JohnRobert> hello
[08:46] <MooDoo> morning JohnRobert
[09:13] <Laney> happy moist morning
[09:13] <Laney> http://www.raintoday.co.uk/
[09:13] <MooDoo> it's chuffing it down here in notts
[09:13] <Laney> sure is
[09:13] <Laney> glad I don't have to go out :P
[09:18] <MooDoo> Laney: hope it stops at 3:30 or i'm going to get wet riding home :)
[09:18] <Laney> was hoping to go to the bank at lunch :(
[09:18] <MooDoo> Laney: argos for me :S
[09:21] <SuperMatt> today in the office: http://www.supermatt.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/20131120_090816.jpg
[09:21] <SuperMatt> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD
[09:21] <popey> One of those mornings. Just managed to pour coffee over iPad and Nook at the same time
[09:22] <MartijnVdS> :(
[09:22] <popey> all cleaned up in rapid time tho
[09:22] <SuperMatt> ouchy
[09:23] <SuperMatt> maybe we need to dedicate a UDS session to popey's various tech fails
[09:23] <SuperMatt> it seems every week something of yours goes wrong
[09:23] <popey> ☻
[09:23] <popey> Oh, and my desktop boots to a bios screen saying B4 now and then
[09:23] <popey> and the keyboard is sometimes not detected (I believe B4 means this)
[09:23] <popey> also, when booting to Ubuntu/Windows on it, sometimes I have to wait for 30 seconds after login screen before keyboard works at all
[09:24] <popey> fine once it works, but there seems to be some BIOS/USB issue going on
[09:24] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Name Your PC Day! :-D
[09:24] <popey> alan@wopr:~$ hostname
[09:24] <popey> wopr.popey.com
[09:24] <popey> ☻
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> wolk
[09:24] <popey> pronounced volk?
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> popey: vell, not quite :)
[09:25] <MartijnVdS> popey: ask Google Translate, it knows how to pronounce it :)
[09:32] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> \o bigcalmian
[09:32] <MooDoo> hello bigcalm :D
[09:38] <popey> Hmm. spotify broke for me today.
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> popey: on LInux? let me check mine
[09:39] <popey> yeah
[09:39] <popey> message on the console about deadlock detected
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> are you running trusty or saucy?
[09:39] <popey> http://community.spotify.com/t5/Help-Desktop-Linux-Mac-and/LINUX-60-sec-freeze-at-startup/td-p/392592
[09:39] <popey> saucy
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> popey: 1:0.9.4.183.g644e24e.428-1 ?
[09:40] <popey> 1:0.9.1.55.gbdd3b79.203-1
[09:40] <popey> hmm
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> popey: there's been a new key for their archive for about 5-6 months now I guess (maybe a bit longer)
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> popey: maybe you didn't get that, and it stopped upgrading?
[09:41] <popey> I'm on my desktop not laptop, probably why
[09:41] <popey> i dont think i have the ppa enabled here
[09:41] <popey> yeah, no ppa
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> popey: deb http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free
[09:42] <popey> ta
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> and their key is 94558F59 I think
[09:42] <popey> Get:1 http://repository.spotify.com/ stable/non-free spotify-client amd64 1:0.9.4.183.g644e24e.428-1 [47.4 MB]
[09:42] <popey> \o/
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> *\o/*
[09:43] <popey> hmm, still blocking / greying out
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> Stränge
[09:44] <popey> Stränge indeed
[09:44] <SuperMatt> I've just given up with spotify
[09:44] <popey> 09:44:16.634 E [storage.cpp:3307                ] Storage error: realm: 3, file: 609a7fbfde6aae95babb1b18231ee7f3a3ceee01, error: 709, OS error: 0, count: 1
[09:44] <SuperMatt> I've moved to google play
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: I want to, but I get spotify for free
[09:45] <bashrc> Have never tried spotify
[09:45] <SuperMatt> ah
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: I've told Google which music I have using their management tool, and the playlists it generates are amazing :)
[09:45] <popey> Failed to create secure directory (/run/user/1000/pulse): Permission denied
[09:45] <SuperMatt> well I can't agrue with that
[09:45] <popey> oof
[09:45] <SuperMatt> /o\
[09:46] <popey> bug 1197395
[09:46] <Laney> THAT BUG
[09:46] <dvrr> hiiiiiiiiii
[09:48] <bashrc> you mean you're not logged in as root all the time? :)
[09:48] <MooDoo> bashrc: I am, is that ok?  ps want my bank details ;)
[09:48] <bashrc> ;-)
[09:49] <popey> oh. it's one of those bugs
[09:49] <bashrc> an eye-rolling bug?
[09:54]  * popey ignores the discussion on those bugs and chowns /run/user/1000/pulse
[09:57] <dvrr> how to resolve  807 error   vpn  server
[09:57] <dvrr> MooDoo
[09:57] <MartijnVdS> dvrr: (a) what kind of VPN server? (b) What did you do (details!), what happened, what did you expect would happen?
[09:58] <dwatkins> I'm reminded of the article entitled "cost of 0wnership" which detailled the disadvantage of how powerful linux is and how a compromised linux server can be more useful to hackers than a compromised windows server.
[09:58] <dvrr> pptpd
[09:58] <dwatkins> Many people misread it as "ownership" instead of "0wnership", perhaps a better title would have been in order.
[09:58] <dvrr> i fallow   this url    http://jesin.tk/setup-pptp-vpn-server-debian-ubuntu/
[09:59] <dwatkins> http://www.immunitysec.com/downloads/tc0.pdf for the curious
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> dvrr: you know PPTP is not secure, right?
[10:02] <popey> I'm getting lots of tabs crashing in chromium today
[10:02] <dvrr> i don't know    i  search in google only
[10:03] <popey> http://store.steampowered.com/app/253370/ crashes chrome for me
[10:03] <popey> THANKS DIRECTHEX
[10:03] <popey> THIRECTHEX
[10:05] <mungbean> 123 pages of PDF to go through for job candidate shortlisting :-|
[10:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Worth a read: http://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-munich-rejected-steve-ballmer-and-kicked-microsoft-out-of-the-city/
[10:07] <dvrr> MartijnVdS : which   vpn server is secure  please  tel me    i will search in google  i will configure
[10:08] <MartijnVdS> dvrr: IPSec/L2TP and OpenVPN. OpenVPN is the easiest to configure.
[10:09] <popey> my 13.10 desktop is pretty borked and I can't put my finger on what it is
[10:09] <popey> tabs crashing left and right in chromium, slow response
[10:09] <Laney> thought you said something about problems after moving it
[10:09] <popey> yeah, re-seated RAM
[10:09] <popey> memtest okay
[10:10] <mungbean> once we had a contractor who installed RAM with vaseline on her fingers
[10:10] <mungbean> smoke started pouring out of the PC
[10:10] <Laney> I've been getting spontaneous reboots once a day lately
[10:10] <Laney> :( :( :(
[10:10] <mungbean> chrome crashed my X session when opeining discourse.ubuntu yesterday
[10:10] <popey> laptop is also re-triggering usb connection to iphone
[10:10] <popey> every second or two
[10:10] <MooDoo> I had a crash last night using eog, but I'm using lts ;)
[10:11] <mungbean> popey is a one man advert not to buy a TP
[10:11]  * mungbean haz LTS
[10:11] <popey> how is it thinkpad related?
[10:11] <MooDoo> mungbean: I'm using lts on the desktop, don't need anything else.
[10:11] <mungbean> i was thinking of your heat problems the other day
[10:11] <popey> pretty sure it's kernel or desktop
[10:11] <popey> oh yeah, that sucks
[10:11] <popey> I probably wont buy another thinkpad now
[10:12] <popey> although I am told the newer intels are better heat performers
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> developer edition XPSes though...
[10:12] <mungbean> i still see a lot of dell latitude d6x0 around. testament to how solid they were
[10:12] <popey> yeah
[10:12] <popey> G+ notification: "Carlo Orosei invited you to join gnewsense"
[10:12] <popey> I'll get right on that.
[10:12] <mungbean> after joining diapora
[10:13]  * popey is on diaspora ☻
[10:13] <mungbean> that still exists?
[10:13] <MooDoo> wow diaspora still goin?
[10:13] <mungbean> its a fight to the death
[10:13] <mungbean> last man standing
[10:13] <popey> last activity 29 days ago on my stream
[10:13] <mungbean> popey and jef spaleta are the only 2 left
[10:14] <popey> not that I follow anyone
[10:14] <popey> I only login when someone mentions it
[10:14] <popey> thanks mungbean
[10:14] <mungbean> pleasure
[10:14] <popey> haha.. most recently update is this...
[10:14] <popey> William Kennington - 20 days ago - "Join us now and share the software."
[10:14] <popey> followed by a comment...
[10:15] <popey> Ryan Larson - "YOU'LL BE FREEEEEEEEE HACKERS YOU'LL BE FREEEEEEE!!!"
[10:15] <popey> yup. thats diaspora
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> so the Bad Voltage guys were right about it!
[10:16] <MooDoo> lol 2 years ago I got the last notification in diaspora
[10:17] <popey> damnit, you reminded me about bad voltage now
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> popey: is that bad?
[10:17] <mungbean> did anyone listen to that radio4 prog with maggie philbin?
[10:17] <popey> no, stored it for later listening
[10:17] <popey> somewhere
[10:17] <mungbean> i might get it sped up so i can listen in double time
[10:17] <mungbean> half the time
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> popey: I use Podkicker Pro for that, on my phone
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> works great :)
[10:18] <mungbean> LAS would sound like the muppets on double speed
[10:18] <mungbean> hey bert, hey ernie
[10:18] <Laney> hope the sloes turn up today
[10:18] <Laney> #gingingingin
[10:18] <mungbean> sounds like crazy frog
[10:19] <MooDoo> Laney: what does the fox say?
[10:19] <Laney> the... fox...
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: The FOX says "Fgshgfhgs MURRICA", right?
[10:20] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: think you'll find it's spelt cha cha cha cha cha cha chow ;)
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> it's like the Daily Fail of American TV
[10:23] <bashrc> is that like 20th century fox?
[10:24] <MooDoo> bashrc: for your entertainment ;) - http://youtu.be/jofNR_WkoCE
[10:28] <mungbean> lubotu needs to parse youtube urls and post the titles
[10:29] <mungbean> "Salary expectation: £1 000 000
[10:29] <mungbean> hmm
[10:36] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: what about the opsnsuse version ;) - http://youtu.be/VNkDJk5_9eU
[10:37] <dvrr>  i will configure   IPSec/L2TP and OpenVPN.  only  ubuntu system not in router  it is secure
[10:39] <Laney> MooDoo: sky's looking nice and blue now!
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> dvrr: no
[10:39] <MooDoo> Laney: yeah rather happy about that
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> dvrr: IPSec/L2TP is one choice, OpenVPN is another choice.
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> dvrr: you don't have to do both, just OpenVPN is enough
[10:40] <popey> Laney: got a new chair yet?
[10:40] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "What does the FAQ say?"
[10:40] <Laney> popey: yeah, went for the markus
[10:40] <Laney> not quite ready to step up to the aeron/m<whatever the new one is> just yet
[10:40] <popey> i had to superglue my chair to stop it flipping back with a *crack*
[10:42] <Laney> oh I took a picture of the old one
[10:42] <Laney> it was quite amusing towards the end of its life
[10:42] <popey> yeah, I saw the nice liste it had developed
[10:42] <dvrr> MartijnVdS:okk  thank you very much
[10:42] <Laney> ah did I upload it?
[10:43] <Laney> clever laney
[10:43] <popey> you did
[10:43] <Laney> there's a standing desk in my future though I feel </trendy>
[10:44] <popey> yeah, I'd like one of those
[10:44] <popey> maybe when I finally get the garage converted to an office
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> Laney: with or without a treadmill?
[10:44] <Laney> haha
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> Laney: people do that.. at *very* low speeds
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> (slower than "strolling")
[10:44] <Laney> yeah I've heard about it... probably not for me
[10:45] <popey> ok, now imgr is causing chromium to crash
[10:45] <popey> any suggestions on debugging this?
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> popey: time to reseat your RAM
[10:45]  * popey reboots to memtest for a bit
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> \o
[10:47] <mungbean> predicts errors
[10:47] <dwatkins> I'd be looking at the strace output, too.
[10:48]  * popey looks up the price of new RAM ☹
[10:48] <aquarius__> yo, dudes. Ubuntu 13.10 machine won't boot; dies n grub rescue. Grub says unknown flesystem. Have booted from usb; i now plan to fsck the partition on the disk, but.. how do i know which filesystem it is? Was a clean install of *probably* 11.10 and then upgraded since. ext3? ext4?
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> ext4
[10:48] <dwatkins> mount it and check the release file
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: he can't mount, errors.
[10:49] <aquarius__> dwatkins:  can't mount it
[10:49] <popey> you dont need to know what filesystem it is
[10:49] <popey> fsck will figure that out
[10:49] <popey> "sudo fdisk -l"
[10:49] <popey> that will list all partitions
[10:49] <mungbean> there's another grub resuce cd, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
[10:49] <dwatkins> oh sorry, thought that was just a boot problem
[10:50]  * dwatkins confused fsck and mkfs in his mind
[10:50] <aquarius__> popey: fdsk just says the partition is "Linux"
[10:50] <dwatkins> probably not a good thing to confuse
[10:50] <popey> aquarius__: i didnt say it would tell you what the filesystem was
[10:50] <popey> just which partition it is, so you know what to feed fsck
[10:50] <popey> sudo fsck /dev/sdb1
[10:50] <popey> for example
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> add -v in there, maybe
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> if you want verbosity
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> uh -V
[10:51] <aquarius__> popey: I did "fsck -N /dev/sda1". It says stuff about /sbin/fsck.ext2
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> .. both?
[10:51] <aquarius__> popey: (-N is dry run)
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> aquarius__: fsck.ext* = the same
[10:51] <popey> "stuff"
[10:51] <popey> you may want to install some useful stuff in the live environ
[10:51] <aquarius__> popey: am concerned that it can't read the disk and so assumes ext2
[10:51] <popey> like smartmontools and pastebinit
[10:51] <dwatkins> does it actually fail to mount?
[10:51] <aquarius__> dwatkins: yes
[10:52] <popey> what does it say when it fails to mount?
[10:52] <dwatkins> what's the error?
[10:52] <aquarius__> it demands that I tell it the filesystem
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> so tell it ext4
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> if that doesn't work, ext3
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> etc :)
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> unless you installed btrfs, but you'd know if you had
[10:52] <aquarius__> MartijnVdS: I don't know enough to know whether that might make things worse. :(
[10:52] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: your answer is much better than using xxd, which I was about to suggest ;)
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> aquarius__: it won't.
[10:53] <aquarius__> hang on, let me irc from the live environ
[10:53] <dwatkins> I know NTFS contains the letters NTFS in the first few bytes of the filesystem, not sure if that's the case for ext[2-4]
[10:53] <dwatkins> ...and I'm not about to unmount something to find out ;)
[10:53] <popey> aquarius__: you're sure you're mounting the right partition?
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: nah, ext3 is just ext2 with a journal, and ext4 is just ext3 with some other improvement bits, it's all quite gradual
[10:53] <popey> (hence me asking you to run fdisk -l)
[10:54] <aquarius_live> yo.
[10:54] <MartijnVdS> it's the aquaman
[10:54] <aquarius_live> popey: yes
[10:54] <dwatkins> wow, the first few k of my ext3 partition are zeroes
[10:54] <AlanBell> sudo head /dev/sda1 doesn't show that much of interest
[10:54] <popey> We're live here today with Stuart Langridge who is coming to us from "shit creek"... Hows it going there Stuart?
[10:54]  * dwatkins shrugs and lets it carry on
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> popey: He seems to be looking for a paddle 8-)
[10:55] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: strings doesn't say much either
[10:55] <aquarius_live> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6447541/
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "file" should be able to identify it, if you have a dump of the first few kb/mb
[10:55] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: /dev/sdb1: block special
[10:56] <dwatkins> oh an actual copy, duh
[10:56] <popey> have you tried mounting it by specifying the filesystem?
[10:56] <MartijnVdS> don't forget -o ro
[10:56] <aquarius_live> so I can't mount without knowing filesystem type, and I don't know how to find that out. I can try ext4, then ext3, etc... but am concerned that mount is meant to do this for me and isn't, which suggests deeper corruption
[10:56] <popey> mount -t ext4 /dev/sda1 /mnt
[10:56] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: nice! /tmp/sdb1: Linux rev 1.0 ext4 filesystem data,
[10:56] <popey> you can mount it read-only if you want
[10:56] <MartijnVdS> -o ro -> read-only -> important in situations like this
[10:56] <dwatkins> I think we have a winnar
[10:56] <dwatkins> dd is your friend
[10:56] <aquarius_live> popey: I didn't do that because I don't know what the filesystem *is*. MartijnVdS suggests that trying ext4 and getting it wrong is not a problme
[10:56]  * dwatkins goes to read a really boring security document
[10:57] <popey> i agree with MartijnVdS, but you can mount -o ro
[10:57] <popey> mount -o ro -t ext4 /dev/sda1 /mnt
[10:57] <GentileBen> "Ubuntu’s Mir won’t replace X in 14.04 desktop"
[10:57] <GentileBen> Oh joy.
[10:57] <popey> also, smartmontools provides smartctl - use that to check if the ssd is badgered
[10:57] <Myrtti> how bad is it when I can vividly imagine aquarius_live reading his messages out?
[10:57] <aquarius_live> won't mount.
[10:58] <Myrtti> I need more tea, maybe with a dash of vodka
[10:58] <MartijnVdS> aquarius__: which error?
[10:58] <aquarius_live> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1, (etc)
[10:58] <GentileBen> "And Ubuntu for phones and tablets will eventually support Android apps." <-- is anybody else apathetic to Ubuntu phones?
[10:58] <aquarius_live> fails for ext4, ext3, ext2.
[10:58] <jussi> Myrtti: vodka with a dash of tea?
[10:58] <aquarius_live> popey: will try smartmontools
[10:58] <GentileBen> With Android, Google gets all your personal info. With Ubuntu, Amazon and Canonical get all your personal info.
[10:58] <popey> its not encrypted is it?
[10:58] <GentileBen> And the NSA gets info for both.
[10:58] <popey> GentileBen: shut up
[10:58] <Myrtti> jussi: for gods sake, it's Wednesday and not even noon yet
[10:58] <GentileBen> Hey popey, shut up yourself.
[10:59] <MartijnVdS> aquarius__: ok, so e2fsck -v /dev/sda1
[10:59] <popey> tiresome trolling about amazon is tiresome
[10:59] <SuperMatt> I think popey has a better idea what's going on
[10:59] <SuperMatt> and the amazon thing is all just FUD
[10:59] <jussi> Myrtti: hehe, ok, wait an hour or 2  :D
[10:59] <aquarius_live> ooh, errors from smartctl
[10:59] <popey> pastey pastey
[11:00] <popey> heh, that could have sounded like I was telling the pastey guy to paste
[11:00] <popey> which could hold true for aquarius_live
[11:00] <MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: "new underpants" kind of errors?
[11:00] <aquarius_live> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6447563/
[11:00] <popey> "what did I have on this disk which isn't backed up" kind of errors?
[11:00] <aquarius_live> MartijnVdS: nfi. I know nothing about this stuff.
[11:00] <aquarius_live> I am *reasonably* confident in my backups.
[11:01] <dwatkins> if I could remember how to get dd to output to stdout, I'd suggest using that piped into file (count being low)
[11:01] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: don't provide an "of=" and it'll use stdout
[11:01] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: that fails :'(
[11:01] <aquarius_live> MartijnVdS: you suggest e2fsck, but what if it's ext3?
[11:02] <aquarius_live> am extremely, extremely scared of screwing this up :)
[11:02] <directhex> aquarius_live, the ext2 tools still work.
[11:02] <MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: e2fsck checks ext{2,3,4}
[11:02] <aquarius_live> ah, that's reassuring
[11:02] <directhex> aquarius_live, the mount will have failed because the "superblock" which defines the file system start point is corrupted. fortunately, ext* stores lots of spare copies
[11:03] <aquarius_live> ok, e2fscking
[11:03] <AlanBell> 7 raspberry pi devices have arrived
[11:03] <directhex> aquarius_live, "dumpe2fs /dev/sdXX | grep superblock" will tell you where all the superblocks found on the disk are
[11:03] <MartijnVdS> if there are logs in SMART though, it's time to order a new hard disk
[11:03] <popey> \o/
[11:03] <aquarius_live> heh. Inode 7 has illegal block(s).  Clear<y>?
[11:03] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: \o/
[11:03] <aquarius_live> Not at all sure whether I should say yes or no to that question!
[11:03] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: \o/
[11:03] <directhex> aquarius_live, and "fsck -b SOMEBLOCKNUMBER /dev/sdXX" will do a fsck using the backup
[11:04] <directhex> aquarius_live, if this is an SSD, it is possibly failure. if it's failure, it's likely catastrophic. non-enterprise ssds have totally catastrophic failure modes due to the way flash is written
[11:04] <aquarius_live> it's an SSD, indeed
[11:04] <aquarius_live> only had the darn thing two years! grrrrr
[11:05] <directhex> aquarius_live, which brand?
[11:05] <aquarius_live> not sure. whatever came in it
[11:05] <MartijnVdS> what did it come in? :)
[11:05] <aquarius_live> Device Model:     JMicron 616 SSD
[11:05] <aquarius_live> so says smartctl
[11:05] <directhex> hm
[11:06] <directhex> aquarius_live, oh, you can also try mounting using a backup superblock, with -o sb=SOMEBLOCKNUMBER, using the numbers you got from dumpe2fs
[11:06] <SuperMatt> all right, here I go in to the heady world of writing my own juju charms
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: good luck!
[11:07] <dwatkins> restoring from backup, SuperMatt?
[11:07] <SuperMatt> thanks, I think I'm going to need it
[11:07] <directhex> when a cell in a flash chip on an enterprise becomes corrupt, it takes all data stored in that same row or column, not just the cell.
[11:08] <directhex> in a consumer ssd, the failure is in 3 axis, not 2, so you lose N times more data
[11:08] <aquarius_live> directhex: and dumpe2fs's lines such as "Backup superblock at 163840, Group descriptors at 163841-163848" means that 163840 is a block number? So mount -o ro -t ext3 -o sb=163840 /dev/sda1 mnt ?
[11:08] <SuperMatt> dwatkins: no, I need nginx with a specific plugin that isn't in the repos, and then of course I'll have my own configs to go with that
[11:08] <dwatkins> SuperMatt: sounds like you have a complex day ahead of you
[11:08] <SuperMatt> sure I do!
[11:08] <directhex> aquarius_live, you pass options to mount of the form -o option1,option2,option3. so -o ro,sb=163840 but basically yes
[11:09] <SuperMatt> can't decide if it's better to compile the version of nginx first, and stick it in a git repo, or have the charm download the lastest version of nginx and the plugin and compile them and install time
[11:10] <aquarius_live> same errors about a bad superblock or wrong fs type when passing -o sb=whatever. Tried as -t ext{4,3,2} with -o ro,sb=X for X being a few of the superblocks shown by dumpe2fs :(
[11:11] <popey> is there some science to the patterns memtest uses?
[11:11] <popey> I mean I get 00000000 and FFFFFFFF and the 010101 and 101010 ones..
[11:11] <dwatkins> I assumed they were random.
[11:11] <bashrc> which reminds me, there should be a charm for a freedombox type install (diaspora, owncloud, etc)
[11:11] <popey> no, there's repeating patterns
[11:11] <MartijnVdS> popey: all zeroes, all ones, bit on, bit off
[11:12] <popey> bc709893 for example
[11:12] <popey> 438f676c
[11:13] <MartijnVdS> popey: write them in binary, you might see patterns that way?
[11:13] <popey> oh, "Test #8 [Modulo 20, Random pattern]" ☻
[11:13] <popey> yeah, did that ☻
[11:13] <aquarius_live> directhex: so, mounting passing the backup superblock doesn't work. So it's a fsck, I suspect (and possibly that won't help either, if it's honestly scragged, of course). Is it better to let fsck try and fix things, or does that make it worse?
[11:14] <MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: if you have a big enough disk, you could "dd" the partition to a backup (image) file first
[11:14] <MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: that way, whatever fsck does, you have an "original" image
[11:15] <MartijnVdS> you could even copy the image file and fsck THAT instead
[11:15] <aquarius_live> MartijnVdS: I do not. Only one disc in this machine, and the main partition takes up very nearly all of it. It's only a 120GB SSD; I can't afford to leave half of it empty.
[11:15] <popey> ---> PCWorld
[11:15] <MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: sure, but maybe you have a 2TB usb disk lying around :)
[11:15] <MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: the partition image would fit on that easily
[11:15] <aquarius_live> MartijnVdS: ha! It took me ages to find a 1GB usb to put the boot disk on ;)
[11:16] <aquarius_live> popey: that's the plan, but obviously recovering the data from this disk is 1.8 zillion times easier than from backups.
[11:16] <aquarius_live> I think my error was suspending it by closing the lid, and then letting it run out of battery. Not that that *should* be an error, mark you, but I shan't do it again.
[11:17] <aquarius_live> so, do I fsck and say yes to all its questions about fixing stuff?
[11:17] <popey> i would go and get another disk and recover that way personally
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: you could run it with -y if you don't want to do that manually
[11:18] <directhex> aquarius_live, i don't think you're going to find a better way to recover your data than what fsck tries to do with it
[11:18] <aquarius_live> popey: how do I "recover that way"? Not sure how having another disk helps -- how do I get the data off this one?
[11:18] <aquarius_live> directhex: ah, cool, that's a useful piece of advice. Will do that.
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: once you have an image, you can do things like photorec on it
[11:19] <directhex> maybe ddrescue
[11:19] <aquarius_live> Certainly another disk sounds like the way (question: how do I know that the problem is the disc and not, say, the controller that it's plugged into?)
[11:19] <arsen> i hate talk of failing hdds and backups and the like, makes me worry about my data :<
[11:19] <popey> aquarius_live: get new disk, attach via USB (3?) and use live cd to format it then dd the internal disk to the external disk as an image
[11:19] <popey> then fsck that image
[11:19] <MartijnVdS> popey: or even a copy of that image (so you always have the original()
[11:19] <directhex> aquarius_live, statistically, it's likely the disk not the controller
[11:19] <aquarius_live> popey: ah, I see now. So I'd need another disc, and an external caddy
[11:19] <arsen> i wonder how windows7 will handle me dd'ing it onto a SSD.
[11:20] <aquarius_live> directhex: also useful advice, thank you
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> arsen: it'll get confused. a lot.
[11:20] <popey> yeah, just a USB attached 500G jobbie (so you can have two copies plus your data on it)
[11:20] <directhex> aquarius_live, nowadays discs in usb caddies are often cheaper than the discs on their own
[11:20] <directhex> especially at pc world prices
[11:20] <aquarius_live> I have server space, but I don't know if I can dd something direct to a remote thing? can i pipe dd's output into scp or something?
[11:21] <arsen> netcat \o/
[11:21] <popey> you can, yes.
[11:21] <aquarius_live> will take one hell of a while sending 120GB over wireless :)
[11:21] <popey> indeed
[11:21] <AlanBell> aquarius_live: you can dd over the network, but you won't regret having a USB caddy and big disk
[11:21] <AlanBell> I have an SSD in a caddy
[11:21] <aquarius_live> I have this idea in my head that I have a caddy somewhere.
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> you can go get those while the dd is doing its thing.. ;)
[11:21] <popey> ditto, SSD + USB3 = zoomzoomzoom
[11:21] <aquarius_live> wonder what i did with it?
[11:22] <popey> so desktop has done a pass of all the RAM, all passed
[11:22] <arsen> i'd of assumed a caddy would be more backup purposes, or large data store - than SSD sized usage? :o
[11:22] <popey> depends what you want to use it for
[11:22] <popey> portable desktop
[11:23] <AlanBell> arsen: yeah, it just worked out that I had a small ssd, so now have a silent USB drive
[11:23] <aquarius_live> can fscking make the problem *worse*? That is: if I fsck and say yes to the questions, and it doesn't fix the problem, and I then go and get a second drive and a caddy and copy the partition off, might I have ruined that partition in a way that's now unrecoverable and *wouldn't* have been if I hadn't fscked?
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: maybe
[11:23] <popey> anything which causes you to write to the device can, in theory
[11:23] <popey> hence why many recommend dding off it _first_
[11:24] <aquarius_live> I was worried you were going to say taht.
[11:24] <aquarius_live> the hell with it. Let's try fscking, I think.
[11:25] <arsen> how critical is this data?
[11:25] <aquarius_live> the stuff I care about is in Ubuntu One, or in the backups on my server, or is media.
[11:25] <aquarius_live> (in roughly increasing order of annoyance to recover)
[11:26] <aquarius_live> wow, loads of fsck errors.
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> once an SSD goes, it *goes*
[11:27] <aquarius_live> I do suspect that it running out of battery while suspended has contributed here, since I've never done that before and suddenly I get problems... but it sounds like it's just tickled the hardware into dying
[11:27] <aquarius_live> big question: do I buy a new SSD, or do I use this as an excuse to buy the new dell xps?
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> but all caches are flushed before suspending, so running out of battery on suspend just means RAM gets flushed, right?
[11:28] <popey> ethernet cable with broken tag
[11:28] <popey> whats the quick/dirty fix which isn't "buy a new cable"?
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: I'd use it as an excuse ;)
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.wikihow.com/Crimp-Cat-5
[11:29] <popey> oh, i have all those bits
[11:29]  * popey gets them
[11:29] <popey> duh
[11:29] <aquarius_live> blimey. there's no way it's coming back from this batch of errors OK.
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> popey: I have a set similar to this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethernet-Network-Cable-Tester-Punch/dp/B000X7XW3W/ (in a nice case and everything)
[11:31] <popey> just found a crimp tool and 50 ends in my garage \o/
[11:31] <MartijnVdS> "50 ends", not quite a good rapper name
[11:32] <aquarius_live> well, it mounts now. ext4, apparently :)
[11:34] <aquarius_live> is it likely to have screwed up grub as well? That is: do I need to do some sort of grub install thing to the now successfully-mountedb drive? Or was grub probably fine before (it got to grub rescue, after all) and just the drive that grub was trying to read was the broken thing?
[11:36] <aquarius_live> suppose I can just try to reboot and see :)
[11:36] <aquarius_live> brb, rebooting.
[11:37] <aquarius__> watching laptop with interest. I suspect it will boot but the boot will fail because half the drve is corrupt
[11:38] <aquarius__> woah! I have a desktop
[11:38] <directhex> this is a prime time to get a crashplan subscription
[11:38] <aquarius__> hm, /tmp is owned by root
[11:39] <aquarius__> that's not right
[11:39] <aquarius__> other than that.... we seem to be up
[11:39] <aquarius__> (er only writable by root that is_
[11:41] <aquarius__> directhex: I have u1 for stuff and back up to my server, so that's OK, I think --- well, I'm not sure crashplan would be any *more* OK, if you see what I mean
[11:44] <aquarius> am much encouraged, here, but still a bit suspicious.
[11:44] <aquarius> am much encouraged, here, but still a bit suspicious.
[11:45] <aquarius> those smartctl errors don't seem too major; they happened a while ago, and widely separated, and weren't data as such.
[11:45] <aquarius> so... maybe things are OK ish? Of course, any disc error at all for any reason is basically a big neon sign saying "go and get a new disc".
[11:46] <dwatkins> smartctl can be misleading, I suggest running a disk checking tool regularly
[11:46] <aquarius> but it feels at least a little like the thing screwed up when running out of battery while suspended.
[11:46] <aquarius> rather than that the SSD is hardwarily scragged.
[11:46] <dwatkins> what kind of filesystem is it, aquarius?
[11:46] <dwatkins> ah yes, ext4
[11:46] <dwatkins> so it should have a journal
[11:46] <aquarius> ext4, it turns out
[11:47] <aquarius> so maybe I didn't throw a seven; it's double sixes and they're just barred :)
[11:47] <popey> omg
[11:47] <popey> i have a bag of rj45 ends which dont fit in rj45 holes
[11:48] <popey> slightly too big
[11:48] <dwatkins> sue them!
[11:48] <mungbean> because they haven't been crimped yet
[11:48] <dwatkins> obstruction of data
[11:48] <popey> after crimping
[11:48] <mungbean> oh
[11:48] <mungbean> fail
[11:48] <aquarius> popey, is not clear that they are rj45, then. Surely the very definition of "an rj45 end" is "a thing which fits in an rj45 hole" ;)
[11:50] <aquarius> weird that such ends would even exist? It's hard to imagine a manufacturing fault that'd cause it... I mean, they must make those by the billion every hour?
[11:50] <popey> fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
[11:50] <popey> so now i have no long cable rather than an unreliable long cable
[11:50] <AlanBell> so now your mildly annoying loose cable is not a cable
[11:51] <mungbean> the trials of WFH
[11:51]  * popey phones the helpdesk
[11:53] <aquarius> anyway: thank you popey, directhex, MartijnVdS.
[11:54]  * popey returns from the datacentre with a long cable
[11:55] <popey> still not sure if desktop is okay or not
[11:56] <popey> no longer booting "B4"
[11:59] <popey> eek, mad rain
[11:59] <mungbean> hail and thunder
[12:00] <MooDoo> sunny and blue skies here
[12:00] <ali1234> popey: if the rj45 plugs dont fit it's because you're not crimping them hard enough
[12:00] <penguin42> and someone in a different window just said Snow - up here in Manchester we have blue skies
[12:00] <mungbean> or they were produced by moonlighters after the factory closed for the night
[12:01] <popey> hmm
[12:01] <ali1234> it's normal for them not to fit properly the first time
[12:01] <popey> ah okay
[12:02] <ali1234> you have to squeeze REALLY hard
[12:02] <mungbean> or get good crimpers
[12:02] <mungbean> (and good rj45 ends)
[12:04] <popey> i should probably empty the wasp graveyard http://popey.com/webcam/
[12:04] <mungbean> grim
[12:04] <Myrtti> there was hails in Cambs just an hour ago or so
[12:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - just got *really* dark here all of a sudden. Looks like it's about to get really nasty outside...
[12:05] <popey> ooo thunder
[12:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol - I heard that too.
[12:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
[12:06] <AlanBell> hail, lots of it
[12:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Must have been between here and Farnborough then.
[12:06] <popey> yeah, was quite quiet
[12:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Mahoosive hail and rain now
[12:08] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: that a weather term?  mahoosive ;)
[12:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[12:10] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: maybe we can get it into the dictionary and make it the word of the year 2014, that wold be mahoosive.
[12:18] <DJones> Heh, just listening to a Dr Who episode from the Radio 4 website, very politically incorrect sentance, "I think we should kill it, its not like us, its not British" (set in the early 1960's in Kenya and spoken between to women on finding an injured 'person' in the jungle)
[12:18] <DJones> s/to/two/
[12:58] <JohnRobert> nice, it's taken all morning but I have my postfix/dovecot VM setup
[12:58] <MooDoo> ALL MORNING????!?!
[12:58] <JohnRobert> yes
[12:58] <MooDoo> JohnRobert: It would of taken me 6 months lol
[12:59] <JohnRobert> it has mysql virtual users too
[12:59] <JohnRobert> heh
[12:59] <JohnRobert> I've done it before and I had a good guide to follow
[12:59] <JohnRobert> first time took a lot longer :p
[12:59] <JohnRobert> still need to integrate spamassasin
[13:01] <popey> \o/ DBS
[13:02] <mungbean> someone remind me what the webmail type of spam queue app is called?
[13:02] <mungbean> that allows you to quarantine mails between a certain spam score for manual inspectino
[13:04] <JohnRobert> dunno
[13:04] <JohnRobert> popey: DBS?
[13:04] <JohnRobert> do you mean DJB?
[13:05] <popey> the old CRB checks were renamed to DBS
[13:05] <JohnRobert> oh god I'm at the wrong talk at #zceu
[13:05] <JohnRobert> oh right
[13:05] <JohnRobert> I'm not CRB checked although I could do with getting checked
[13:05] <popey> mungbean: spamassassin
[13:05] <popey> DBS is handy because you only do it once
[13:05] <mungbean> nahm there's a web interface for spamassassin/amavisd
[13:05] <popey> unlike CRB where each activity needs a check
[13:05] <mungbean> to reject/approve mails
[13:05] <JohnRobert> ah right I think I've heard of that
[13:06] <popey> DBS auto-renews too
[13:06] <JohnRobert> I insist I'm not a nutter
[13:06] <mungbean> mailzu
[13:07] <popey> imgur works quite nicely on ubuntu phone
[13:07] <mungbean> http://sourceforge.net/projects/mailzu/
[13:07] <mungbean> MailZu is a simple and intuitive web interface to manage Amavisd-new quarantine. Users can view their own quarantine, release/delete messages or request the release of messages. MailZu is written in PHP and requires Amavisd-new version greater than 2.3.0
[13:07] <JohnRobert> I'm cutting google out of my life
[13:07] <JohnRobert> starting with gmail
[13:07] <mungbean> zimbra ftw
[13:08] <popey> seen ark? JohnRobert
[13:08] <JohnRobert> no?
[13:08] <popey> https://arkos.io/
[13:08] <JohnRobert> I've spent all morning setting up postfix so it best not be better than that :p
[13:08] <popey> looks quite neat
[13:08] <popey> runs on a pi
[13:08] <popey> i tried it out, and it's early but has some promise
[13:08] <JohnRobert> ah awesome
[13:10] <mungbean> device-ifying the rpi, nice
[13:11] <JohnRobert> looks good popey, I will keep an eye on it
[13:11] <JohnRobert> I have my own DIY ideas in mind though
[13:12] <JohnRobert> no-ip for my nameservers etc.. heh
[13:12] <popey> https://twitter.com/MoreFromGroup
[13:12] <popey> I'd be inclined to report/block for spamming their "humour"
[13:13] <mungbean> twitter app on my phone crashes if i hit search button then search button again
[13:13] <popey> nice
[13:13] <mungbean> bring back tweetdeck
[13:13] <popey> i use tweetdeck
[13:13] <JohnRobert> ubuntu phone...what's that like then?
[13:13] <popey> JohnRobert: http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/gallery.php like that
[13:14] <mungbean> tweetdeck on phone not allowed due to twitter 3rd party fail
[13:15] <JohnRobert> seems kinda cool
[13:15] <JohnRobert> also I have a nexus4
[13:16] <popey> tweetdeck isnt 3rd party
[13:16] <JohnRobert> wow that's a lot of screen shots
[13:16] <popey> i use https://tweetdeck.twitter.com/ on my desktop
[13:16] <popey> yeah, i upload every screenshot I take
[13:17] <JohnRobert> has all the rough edges I'd expect
[13:17] <JohnRobert> :p
[13:17] <JohnRobert> what's battery life like?
[13:17] <dwatkins> I just wrote down a telephone number instead of copying and pasting it, and it's now not in my copy buffer.
[13:17] <SuperMatt> well great. I've got to make a descision. UDS or an interview for a job I'm already iffy about applying for
[13:17] <dwatkins> #FirstWorldProblems...
[13:17] <mungbean> Twitter has officially pulled the plug on TweetDeck for Android and iPhone, as well as the Adobe AIR desktop version, with the retirement of its API v1.
[13:18] <SuperMatt> dwatkins: I think we've both got first world problems
[13:18] <mungbean> ah ok , not 3rd party, but still not worky anymore
[13:21] <popey> JohnRobert: much the same as android
[13:22] <JohnRobert> cool
[13:22] <bigcalm> How does one scroll though screen?
[13:22] <JohnRobert> I use things like navigation on my nexus
[13:22] <JohnRobert> I guess that's not an option on ubuntuphone
[13:23] <penguin42> bigcalm: With difficulty - you've got to flip into the right mode
[13:23] <bigcalm> penguin42: which I haven't managed yet :(
[13:24] <penguin42> bigcalm: ctrl-a, ctrl-[, then u/d for up down
[13:24] <MartijnVdS> Ctrl+A ESC works as well to get into the mode, and pgup+down also work once you're in it
[13:24] <bigcalm> Thanks both :)
[13:24] <JohnRobert> Behat looks good
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: use tmux (and byobu), much easier ;)
[13:25]  * penguin42 is sure there is some setting that tells you the state of it
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: of what?
[13:25] <bigcalm> ctrl a esc page up/down
[13:25] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: On some screen setups it displays a status bar telling you when you go into that mode
[13:25] <bigcalm> That did it for me :)
[14:19] <Constaaa> hello ? anybody here ?
[14:19] <MooDoo> not me, i'm away with the fairies ;)
[14:19] <Constaaa> i love fairys. there always here :/
[14:20] <Constaaa> so im kind of new to ubuntu.. anybody got any cool apps to recommend  ? decent chat clients ect ect ?
[14:21] <MooDoo> well it depends on what you want to do?   x-chat for a client, although I use a command line version
[14:21] <brobostigon> irssi :D
[14:21] <MooDoo> brobostigon: yes that's the one.
[14:21] <brobostigon> :)
[14:21] <Constaaa> yeah fair enough! man i love ubuntu! anybody like linux mint ? that shit looks gooood! :D and whats irssi ?
[14:22] <brobostigon> byobu + irssi + bitlbee :)
[14:22] <MooDoo> Constaaa: irssi is a command line based irc client, and just watch your language :)
[14:22] <brobostigon> irssi is a command line irc client.
[14:23] <Constaaa> ah wicked, im using xchat IRC, so is this server in the uk ?
[14:23] <brobostigon>  /whois will tell you.
[14:23] <Myrtti> the location of the server is quite irrelevant
[14:24] <Myrtti> we're not sniping enemies in Halflife, even if the ping was a few seconds you wouldn't die
[14:24] <Constaaa> no i dont mean the location, i just mean is everybody in this chat in england ? or is it world wide
[14:24] <Myrtti> mostly UK, but around the world
[14:24]  * AlanBell is in Surrey
[14:24] <MartijnVdS> most people have *some* connection to the UK though
[14:25] <MartijnVdS> (most ;))
[14:25]  * brobostigon is on the enterpride-d 
[14:25] <Constaaa> ah right awesome!!! i love the ubuntu community, its so much nicer than the windows/mac
[14:25] <brobostigon> enterprise*
[14:25] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Enterpride? Is that during the parade? ;)
[14:26] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, the gay pride perade on enterprise.
[14:26] <MooDoo> I'd love to know where I am, if only they'd let me out this box.
[14:26] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I mean there *are* a lot of men on that starship.. serving together..
[14:26] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: very true.
[14:26] <MartijnVdS>  Schrödinger's MooDoo ?
[14:26] <awilkins> I always like the cosmopolitan federation attitude to crew relations
[14:26] <Myrtti> you guise
[14:26] <Myrtti> you scared him away
[14:26] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: "Like, totes whatevs!"
[14:27] <Constaaa> who here listens to metal?! or am i the only one :/
[14:27]  * brobostigon likes his prog-rock
[14:27] <MooDoo> Constaaa: i prefer copper or tin ;)
[14:27] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: those are metals
[14:28] <Constaaa> im more of a rhodium kinda guy.
[14:28] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: copper even qualifies as a heavy metal sometimes 8-)
[14:28]  * awilkins prefers semiconductors
[14:28]  * brobostigon bombards awilkins with silicon bombs
[14:28]  * MartijnVdS dopes awilkins
[14:29] <MooDoo> Constaaa: as you can see it can be quite serious in here at times ;)
[14:29] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: don't scare him!
[14:29] <brobostigon> keith floyd on bbc2, a good laugh.
[14:29]  * awilkins enjoys the band gap
[14:29] <Constaaa> what seriously cool stuff can i do on my ubuntu desktop?! like things that will blow my mind. ive had it for ages, but only used it for emails and what have you !
[14:29] <Constaaa> keith floyd <3
[14:30] <awilkins> I always like multiple workspaces
[14:30] <MooDoo> Constaaa: you need to define cool, what you want to do on your computer?  play games, edit pphotos, make music,
[14:30] <MooDoo> sticking your fingers in sockets will blow your mind ;)
[14:30] <brobostigon> 3d modelling ?
[14:30]  * awilkins programs in Java and plays the occasional game
[14:30] <awilkins> Lots of text-processing
[14:30] <Constaaa> make music, im currently recording an acoustic and i need a good hearty program to use. and well ive tried the socket..
[14:30] <MooDoo> brobostigon: blender ftw!
[14:30] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: poor you. At least I get to use Perl for the text processing ;)
[14:30] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep :)
[14:30] <brobostigon> MooDoo: yep :)
[14:31] <brobostigon> tab fail, :(
[14:31] <awilkins> Running apps that work on Windows too like Dia, Freemind, etc, is always fun as well
[14:31] <awilkins> Having a four-monitor setup with Windows on the left two on one machine and Ubuntu on the right two with seamless keyboard / mouse integration is fun
[14:31] <brobostigon> blender also has a good video editor, :)
[14:31] <directhex> know what else is fun?
[14:31] <directhex> tetris
[14:32] <brobostigon> quake :)
[14:32] <Constaaa> doom.
[14:32] <MartijnVdS> the bits of Steam that work on Ubuntu!
[14:32] <brobostigon> minetest ?
[14:33] <awilkins> Steam / Ubuntu is a TERRIBLE idea... I do all my productive work on Ubuntu...
[14:33] <MartijnVdS> self-discipline man :)
[14:34] <awilkins> I'm doing OK, installed TF2 and a few other things but seem to resist
[14:35] <MartijnVdS> TF2 is only fun if you have people of your own skill to play it with
[14:35] <Constaaa> is tf2 free now ?
[14:35] <MartijnVdS> but most people who play it do it all day.. making it not fun
[14:36] <MartijnVdS> Constaaa: it's free to play, you can get upgrades for it by buying/playing other games I think
[14:36] <Constaaa> ah right, where do i get it ?
[14:36] <Constaaa> i miss that game :/
[14:36] <MartijnVdS> Constaaa: install steam, then install tf2 from there
[14:36] <Constaaa> I LOVE YOU ALL.
[14:45] <bigcalm> Anybody know where the init.d example script it kept?
[14:45] <directhex> /etc/init.d/skel ?
[14:46] <bigcalm> directhex: aha, yes (skeleton on debian)
[14:46] <bigcalm> Ta :)
[14:53] <Constaaa> lsxe much smoother! D:
[15:04] <MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZtInClXe1Q
[15:15] <bashrc> anyone ever heard of wandboard?
[15:15] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: sounds kinky
[15:15] <bashrc> it's just another SBC
[15:16] <bashrc> am wondering what to use as a next generation server
[15:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sounds like something from Hogwarts
[15:25] <Myrtti> I was going to say
[15:25] <penguin42> bashrc: Yeh quite a nice one from the specs I saw of it
[15:26] <penguin42> bashrc: I think there were some limits on the max bandwidth of the ethernet somewhere though - but other than that it was ok
[15:26] <bashrc> I think it might be open hardware
[15:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone used a wacom type tablet with Ubuntu? Work OK?
[15:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> My son wants one for Christmas...
[15:27] <bigcalm> I have a python script that I need to call as a daemon from init. Is it the init.d script that makes it become a daemon, or does the python script have to be written to be a daemon?
[15:27] <Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: on and off for years
[15:28] <Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: they seem to work ok
[15:28] <Myrtti> I think even gimp might be good nowadays too
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> in single window mode it's great
[15:28] <Myrtti> there was a good few years when gimp and wacom didn't play nice at all
[15:29] <Myrtti> in comparison to, say Photoshop 6
[15:29] <Myrtti> good ten years ago that was
[15:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - not much recent complaints on G so I guess "it just works"?
[15:30] <Myrtti> for the most part yes
[15:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've never even seen one I think, so what's the craic? Do they have USB connectors for tablet & pen or just the tablet?
[15:33] <Laney> I think the pen usually has batteries
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> no, it's inductive
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> pen is just a bunch of coils
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> with probably some id codes
[15:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> Something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wacom-Bamboo-Pen-Graphics-Tablet
[15:34] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that link is broken
[15:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wacom-Bamboo-Pen-Graphics-Tablet/dp/B005TYVS4Y
[15:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just a single usb by the sounds of it
[15:43] <TwistedLucidity> TheOpenSourcer: Got a basic Wacom..works fine. From memory I had to add a Wacom doofer from the repos, mostly so I could configure actions for all the buttons
[15:43] <TwistedLucidity> TheOpenSourcerer: Mine is a CTE-440.
[15:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks.
[15:45] <mungbean> today is a 2 packets of crisps kind of day
[15:45] <directhex> monster munch!
[15:51] <TwistedLucidity> TheOpenSourcerer: Yup, Graphics Tablet Settings. To be honest, it worked straight away. The settings thing just makes configuration easier.
[15:51] <penguin42> mungbean: Unfortunately I haven't found any of these yet http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/lifestyle/2013/11/taste-testing-lays-new-chocolate-dipped-potato-chips/
[16:16] <Constaaa> yo people !! add me on steam! cuddlemonstaaa
[16:21] <dwatkins> yet another Raspberry Pi, or a genius way of presenting the mini computer for kids? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/alexklein/kano-a-computer-anyone-can-make
[16:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> dwatkins: yeah I read about this one yesterday. Not sure the box and a few bits is worth it though.
[16:23] <AlanBell> dwatkins: it *is* a raspberry pi, just a pretty box to go with it
[16:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> They have the "software" apparently, looks like scratch but creates "proper code". Couldn;t find it anywhere so guess that is what the project is there to fund...
[16:26] <dwatkins> yeah, their distro looks (from the initial desktop screenshot) like it's been made a little more child-friendly, and the case has a built-in speaker, which is a nice idea. The flat cables are pretty neat, and it's all in one box, like the Maplin kit but not as annoying ;)
[16:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> https://code.google.com/p/blockly/
[16:37] <SuperMatt> ok, so if someone were to produce a home server remix, what features would it have installed by default? These are what I have so far:
[16:37] <SuperMatt> https://wiki.supermatt.net/Ubuntu_Home_Server_Remix
[16:38] <SuperMatt> This follows on from one of the questions posed to Mark during the keynote
[16:38] <penguin42> SuperMatt: Hmm I don't know all the packages, so I'd list features - e.g. does that include DLNA server?
[16:39] <neuro> sod mediatomb
[16:39] <neuro> plex media server ftw :)
[16:39] <penguin42> SuperMatt: I'd also add print server, backup mechanism of some type
[16:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> SuperMatt: have you looked at Rygel?
[16:40] <neuro> yeah, cupsd would be nice
[16:40] <directhex> mediatomb is the most customisable dlna server i've used
[16:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have rygel running at home. My TV and tablets all find it OK.
[16:40] <directhex> i.e. you can modify the XML it sends, for slightly nonstandard devices
[16:40] <directhex> which is most of them IME
[16:41] <directhex> a ps3 won't accept the same XML as a samsung TV, for example
[16:41] <neuro> yeah, but it looks *awful*
[16:41] <directhex> and a samsung TV will play .mkv, as long as you fake the MIME type it sends as MPEG2
[16:42] <neuro> compare this: http://i1-linux.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/MediaTomb_1.jpg
[16:42] <neuro> to this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9kjse7wo5ci3nhd/Screenshot%202013-11-20%2016.42.09.png
[16:42] <SuperMatt> I've added cups and plex to the list ;)
[16:43] <SuperMatt> is plex in the repos?
[16:43] <neuro> sadly, no
[16:43] <TwistedLucidity> Hmm...ownCloud...that would save me the grief of arguing with mod_security et al myself.....
[16:43] <neuro> their own ubuntu repo stopped working a while back
[16:43] <neuro> and sadly, it's not open source
[16:43] <SuperMatt> ah, you can't make an official remix if you want to include something which isn't in repos
[16:43] <neuro> but it's *lovely*
[16:44] <SuperMatt> ah
[16:44] <SuperMatt> then it would have to be mediatomb, I'm afraid
[16:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> (16:39:58) TheOpenSourcerer: SuperMatt: have you looked at Rygel?
[16:44] <neuro> bleh
[16:44] <SuperMatt> I have not
[16:44] <directhex> mediatomb looks like arse, but it works
[16:44] <directhex> not much use having a nice server but the n your TV just shows a spinning cursor forever
[16:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> https://wiki.gnome.org/Rygel
[16:45] <TwistedLucidity> Would you be using the web front-end much? Surely XBMC or summat would back on to it?
[16:45] <neuro> why would your TV show a spinning cursor forever?
[16:47] <SuperMatt> anyway
[16:48] <SuperMatt> any other features you'd want on a home server remix?
[16:48] <neuro> if we're wishlisting, some sort of magic interface to rsnapshot
[16:48] <directhex> neuro, because it's randomly not working, because DLNA is horrible
[16:49] <SuperMatt> it's just a remix right now, so it can only be things in the repos
[16:49] <neuro> directhex: you've had problems with plex?
[16:49] <directhex> neuro, iirc plex is a transcoding server, i definitely don't want that
[16:50] <neuro> it only transcodes to dlna targets that it knows won't accept the codec(s) it's sending
[16:50] <neuro> it'll direct play where possible
[17:00] <neuro> we appear to have derailed the conversation ;)
[17:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> If you based it on Zentyal you'd have file/print/samba/email/IM and plenty more. Just add your dlna server of choice :-)
[17:56] <bigcalm> Time to order a 256ishGB SSD for my wife's laptop. Any recomendations?
[17:57] <daftykins> bigcalm: check out the Samsung 840 Pro and 840 EVO, emphasis on the former
[17:57] <bigcalm> daftykins: ta
[17:57] <daftykins> i've dealt with several, they've definitely been the top performer for a while
[17:57] <bigcalm> Any others? aquarius? ;)
[17:58] <bigcalm> daftykins: I've only used OCZ so far
[17:58] <aquarius> don't know about ssd makes :)
[17:58] <bigcalm> aquarius: which one died on you? I want to avoid it :P
[17:58] <daftykins> anything sandforce controller based you want to avoid, ideally
[17:59] <daftykins> and i'd also advise to stay away from TLC NAND chips too (triple level cell) vs. MLC drives
[18:01] <directhex> SLC!
[18:02] <directhex> note: costs all the money
[18:02] <daftykins> yeah i thought i'd restrict things to sane suggestions :D
[18:02] <directhex> bigcalm, i think most major production teething issues are gone, so most consumer SSDs have similar behaviour patterns in all scenarios...
[18:03]  * daftykins whacks directhex with a rolled up newspaper
[18:03] <directhex> bigcalm, so i'd highlight things like "warranty terms" and "availability of firmware etc tools" as selection criteria
[18:03] <bigcalm> Interesting
[18:03] <directhex> bigcalm, avoiding sandforce is hard as they run most of the market. basically the only drives without sandforce controllers are OCZ and Samsung
[18:04] <daftykins> not true, there's still a lot of variation to be had with performance over time
[18:04] <daftykins> but yeah i agree with looking at warranty, Samsung give 3yrs on the drives i mentioned
[18:04] <daftykins> which is nice
[18:04] <directhex> bigcalm, sandforce controllers were implicated in early major failure rates, mostly on OCZ drives. the biggest determining factor with sandforce controllers is the firmware implementation
[18:04] <directhex> which is why one sandforce with the same memory might be twice the speed as another
[18:05] <directhex> samsung have their own controller. ocz use indilinx.
[18:05] <aquarius> mine's a JMicron, if I remember correctly from this morning
[18:06] <directhex> i have two SSDs at home, both near-identical sandforce 240G drives
[18:06] <directhex> a kingston and a sandisk
[18:06] <directhex> sandforce performance is tied very tightly to two things - how compressible the data is, and whether you have >50% free space
[18:06] <daftykins> bigcalm: if you'd like reliability over say, the top performance to be had, Micron/Crucial's offerings are quite nice too: http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listmodule/SSD/~245760~~M500~/list.html
[18:07] <daftykins> but yeah the Samsung 840 Pro definitely bests it
[18:07] <directhex> crucial M4 had major firmware issues though. everyone can give FW issues
[18:07] <directhex> even intel
[18:07] <daftykins> sure, but not things that threatened the data
[18:08] <daftykins> i had a client with a buggy m4 that BSOD'd his Windows install every 1hr after boot - i was in Australia for a wedding at the time :)
[18:08] <daftykins> phoned up a friend to pop in with a firmware update CD - all fixed in seconds
[18:09] <directhex> aquarius, jmicron were a big player around 2008-2010, have faded into obscurity on the ssd controller front
[18:10] <daftykins> i only really know of them as the provider of nasty legacy PATA controllers :D
[18:10] <directhex> yeah, that's the  main reason most users have interacted with jmicron - they make IDE controllers which are used to provide IDE ports on modern motherboards
[18:11] <directhex> or did. it's a while since i checked
[18:11] <daftykins> that additional POST time always made me a sad panda
[18:11] <daftykins> (my server runs an old PATA optical still)
[18:13] <penguin42> yeh it's when it all went PCIe they seemed to be the ones used
[18:13] <aquarius> directhex, yeah, I believe that; my laptop was bought in Nov 2011, but Lenovo using a fading player is not surprising :)
[18:14] <bigcalm> Likely to buy: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Series-256GB-Solid-State/dp/B009LI7CTY - looking for a cheaper vendor though
[18:15] <directhex> aquarius, nowadays they use Intel SSDs with custom, broken firmware that crashes linux
[18:15] <directhex> aquarius, i buy my thinkpads with spinning rust, and a samsung ssd separately...
[18:16] <penguin42> bigcalm: Scan are more expensive http://www.scan.co.uk/products/256gb-samsung-840-pro-series-basic-25-ssd-7mm-3-core-mdx-21nm-toggle-nand-read-540mb-s-write-520mb-s
[18:17] <bigcalm> penguin42: that's the oposite of what I asked ;)
[18:17] <daftykins> lol
[18:17] <directhex>  http://www.getinvisiblehand.com/
[18:18] <daftykins> wat
[18:18] <bigcalm> directhex: aha, I used to use that long ago
[18:18]  * bigcalm installs
[18:19] <bigcalm> I think I uninstalled it when I was working on a shopping scope with popey *grumbles*
[18:19] <daftykins> wow the SSD prices seem to have gone up a touch
[18:19] <daftykins> i wonder what's happening to NAND
[18:19] <popey> heh
[18:20] <bigcalm> Invisible Hand says that Amazon's £161 is the best price. Which is a lie
[18:20] <directhex> bigcalm, of the retailers it searches, who is cheaper?
[18:20] <bigcalm> directhex: amazon
[18:21] <directhex> link?
[18:21] <bigcalm> I put the drive into google shopping. Some results say Samsung SSD 840 Pro Series 250 GB. Likely to be the same drive?
[18:21] <bigcalm> directhex: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Series-256GB-Solid-State/dp/B009LI7CTY
[18:21] <directhex> bigcalm, yeah, you said that was a lie. who is cheaper?
[18:22] <bigcalm> directhex: sorry, I meant that in jest. I know it only searches a sub set of all shops out there
[18:24] <daftykins> bigcalm: the non Pro is 250GB so nah, best check closely
[18:24] <bigcalm> Ooo, hadn't noticed the lack of 'pro'
[18:25] <bigcalm> Yep, looks like Amazon is the best
[18:25] <bigcalm> Ho hum
[18:26] <penguin42> heck, AMD are selling an x86 clocked at 4.7GHz with a TDP of 220W
[18:26] <penguin42> (for a reasonable price)
[18:26] <directhex> ._.
[18:26] <penguin42> hth do you cool that?
[18:26] <daftykins> bigcalm: what kind of system is it going in?
[18:26] <bigcalm> daftykins: laptop
[18:27] <daftykins> bigcalm: ubuntu?
[18:27] <bigcalm> daftykins: windows 7
[18:27] <daftykins> good stuff, it'll love that :)
[18:28] <directhex> *cough*
[18:28] <directhex> actually, never mind
[18:28] <directhex> samsung SSDs are 7mm
[18:28] <bigcalm> These drives are for my wife and father (2 different people). Neither of which have any interest in using anything other than Windows
[18:29] <daftykins> bigcalm: hope this isn't patronising, but be sure to install from win7 SP1 media - it supports partitioning properly on SSDs to '4KB align' them for better performance
[18:29] <bigcalm> daftykins: do, I didn't know that
[18:30] <bigcalm> daftykins: it's whatever I get from Microsoft Partner thingy
[18:30] <daftykins> i have some links to legit win7 media from digital river if you'll be in need of images to install
[18:30] <daftykins> ah ok
[18:30] <bigcalm> I don't know if it comes with SP1 by default
[18:31] <directhex> win7 isos you can just download from MS
[18:31] <bigcalm> I have access to Windows 7 Professional for Partners and Ultimate for Partners
[18:32] <daftykins> you can delete one file from ultimate and turn it into an install-all-flavours image :D
[18:32] <bigcalm> Haha
[18:32] <daftykins> great for dealing with peoples systems that've gone wrong
[18:33] <directhex> daftykins, as long as you remaster it as a UEFI install image
[18:33] <directhex> for great justice
[18:34] <daftykins> depends on the target system but yes :)
[18:34] <bigcalm> Odd, the licence page doesn't tell me how many licences we get for windows 7
[18:35] <daftykins> my pet peeve: reinstalling systems where the clients' certificate of authenticity sticker (COA, containing the license key) has rubbed off XD
[18:36] <bigcalm> Best place for it is under the battery
[18:36] <directhex> daftykins, modern systems have a license key burned into the firmware, not on a COA
[18:36] <bigcalm> (on a laptop)
[18:36] <daftykins> directhex: i know, for w8
[18:36] <daftykins> directhex: i do this for a living don't you know :D
[18:36] <daftykins> bigcalm: agreed
[18:37] <daftykins> leaving them in the open for others to copy down is so daft
[18:37] <directhex> daftykins, do you know how to extract the key as a proper 25 digit install key, from inside ubuntu?
[18:37] <daftykins> no sir
[18:37] <directhex> sudo cat /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM
[18:37] <directhex> last 29 characters of that
[18:37] <daftykins> ooh i shall have to save that in my notes, ty
[18:38] <directhex> sudo cat /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM | tail -c 29
[18:38] <directhex> should just print it readably
[18:38] <directhex> on windows there's a tool i've used called something like magical jelly bean?
[18:39] <directhex> but if you installed windows with a different key it won
[18:39] <directhex> won't report the firmware key
[18:39] <daftykins> yep - though that's likely to give you a manufacturer key if factory installed 8 ones use a master key rather tha the individual
[18:39] <daftykins> *than
[18:39] <daftykins> i like that prog for rescuing peoples MS Office keys :)
[18:40] <directhex> also, win8.1 installer refuses win8 key
[18:40] <directhex> ARGH
[18:40] <daftykins> actually... :) i've gotten around that
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> directhex: well because you should UPGRADE to it 8-)
[18:41] <daftykins> everyone knows that installing what is ultimately a Service Pack after the OS is infinitely inferior to having slipstreamed media
[18:41] <daftykins> directhex: there are guides online for how to use the 8 and 8.1 download programs to grab an 8.1 ISO, then with a little trickery you can make it install without needing a key entered - by the first boot it asks for you to enter a key again, at which time an 8.1 key is accepted \o/
[18:42]  * bigcalm plays lego marvel super heros while the oven heats up
[18:43] <bigcalm> Ah, the good life :)
[18:43] <daftykins> :D
[18:43] <penguin42> http://doctorbeet.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/lg-smart-tvs-logging-usb-filenames-and.html
[18:43] <penguin42> (via BBC news)
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> I'm going to tcpdump my Samsung one as well
[18:43] <daftykins> i think i saw that advertised on the Xbox dashboard
[18:48] <daftykins> penguin42: i like his test filename
[18:48] <penguin42> yes
[18:50] <penguin42> daftykins: I like that the BBC used that on their page about it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25018225
[18:50] <daftykins> X|
[18:50] <daftykins> see if i was reporting something major, i'd keep my examples family friendly
[18:51] <penguin42> you would?
[18:51] <daftykins> yep
[18:51] <MartijnVdS> Someone tell Jono: ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9sHIQaFVC8
[18:51] <penguin42> daftykins: So you'd just stick to dawrf tossing?
[18:52] <directhex> :o winamp is being killed off!
[18:52] <daftykins> WHAT!?
[18:52] <daftykins> but it's the best :(
[18:52] <directhex> "Winamp.com and associated web services will no longer be available past December 20, 2013. Additionally, Winamp Media players will no longer be available for download."
[18:52] <daftykins> penguin42: oh, naturally :)
[18:52] <daftykins> !
[18:52] <daftykins> i'm going to have to start stashing installers everywhere
[18:53] <daftykins> that is seriously sucky news
[18:53] <daftykins> directhex: where's this?
[18:54] <directhex> http://www.winamp.com/media-player/en
[18:54] <MartijnVdS> I remember running one of the first versions, from the 90s
[18:54] <directhex> do you remember it really whipping the llama's ass?
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> directhex: of course!
[18:55] <daftykins> i can see a " /> top left
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> directhex: I remember my CPU being too slow to decode MP3s realtime :)
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/Winamp1.006.PNG that one!
[18:56] <daftykins> :D
[18:58] <daftykins> trying to remember if my Pentium 1 120MHz struggled or not
[18:59] <daftykins> it was probably fine
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> yeah pentiums were fine
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> 486-33, not so much
[19:01] <daftykins> :D
[19:01] <daftykins> seriously though, winamp :'(
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> does xmms still exist?
[19:02] <daftykins> it hasn't been touched since like, the year dot.
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> xmms2 exists as well
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> but I have no idea what it cando
[19:05] <daftykins> probably not much
[19:08] <ali1234> pentium 133 struggled with mp3 - it would use like 85% CPU, so on windows it skipped a lot
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> ah yes, but my 233MMX was fine
[19:10] <daftykins> guess it depended on bitrate
[19:11] <daftykins> i still remember a friend giving me my first mp3, zipped across 3+ floppies to get it over :(
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: my brother had a friend who had a CD burner and cable internet (128 kilobits/second!)
[19:19] <daftykins> directhex: my friend is doing a PhD in Physics at Brighton Uni, he's looking at trying to get them to purchase a system with decent storage as he's dealing with hundreds of gigabytes daily. do you think you could provide some advice on a sensible Linux server to obtain? :D
[19:19] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: wowzer :D
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: yeah, he lived in a huge house as well. Rich parents.
[19:24] <daftykins> i still kinda giggle at my friends that had ISDN
[19:24] <daftykins> such little benefit XD
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> I had ISDN, the benefit was that my mother picking up the phone didn't kill my downloads :)
[19:25] <daftykins> true
[19:25] <daftykins> i had my own line and AOL unmetered 56k :'(
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> using the dual-line 128kbit was also twice as expensive
[19:25] <daftykins> yeah i remember seeing individual pricing
[19:27] <dwatkins> I'm glad to have fibre-to-the-cabinet, although bitcasa have just upped their price for unlimited storage from $99 a year to $999 a year O.O
[19:27] <dwatkins> For that price, I might as well buy a new Synology every 18 months.
[19:29] <daftykins> haha
[19:29] <daftykins> that's a slight increase!
[19:30] <dwatkins> yeah, I wouldn't mind, but the amount of data I'll have on their servers is a tier or so above the new $99 price mark (1 TB for that much, I have at least 2 TB).
[19:31] <kevin-laptop> Just got my brother in law a new laptop and yes it has windows 8 on it. Going to nuke it but just wanted to check if anybody had any experience with HP not allowing you to claim on the warranty if Linux is installed?
[19:31] <dwatkins> I thought that was PC World, kevin-laptop.
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> kevin-laptop: On my Dell, I had the option to create a "rescue USB stick", which I can use to get Windows back if necessary
[19:32] <dwatkins> There was a famous case of the hinge being broken and some company refusing to support it because the user had installed linux.
[19:32] <kevin-laptop> Ahhh ok
[19:32] <kevin-laptop> Well I would make the rescue stick
[19:32] <kevin-laptop> But ...
[19:32] <kevin-laptop> I don't want to rescue Windows 8 ... ever
[19:32] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: not allowed anymore in Europe
[19:32] <dwatkins> Also, it might be worth resizing the Windows partition (Assuming that's still possible with Windows 8) in case it's still needed, or at least dual-booting it during install.
[19:32] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: good
[19:32] <daftykins> kevin-laptop: it's always good to provide it for others regardless :) now is the time, after all.
[19:32] <daftykins> if you don't, you're stopping someone else from having the choice down the line
[19:33] <daftykins> for even potential resale
[19:33] <kevin-laptop> Hhmmmm I'll see how much space it wants for it's recovery feature then
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> kevin-laptop: mine needed 10GB USB stick, which can't be used for anything else
[19:33] <dwatkins> at very least, I'd make sure the Windows 8 serial number and install media are easily available.
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: OEM Win8 doesn't come with install media
[19:33] <kevin-laptop> No serial number on the bottom :(
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> Serial is in the firmware somewhere
[19:33] <dwatkins> oh, I had the option of paying extra for a Win8 DVD.
[19:34] <kevin-laptop> He will never use the windows 8 on it at the moment
[19:34] <kevin-laptop> As long as I can claim on warranty then I'll nuke it
[19:34] <dwatkins> It's probably got loads of unnecessary bloat too.
[19:34] <dwatkins> [aside from Windows, of course]
[19:35] <daftykins> kevin-laptop: nah 8 licenses are in the BIOS now
[19:35] <daftykins> (the key)
[19:35] <kevin-laptop> Ahhh ok
[19:35] <kevin-laptop> I assume they're only in the UEFI BIOS?
[19:35] <daftykins> kevin-laptop: handily, directhex told me how to dump the key from the BIOS just earlier :D
[19:35] <daftykins> (with Linux)
[19:35] <kevin-laptop> Oh :)
[19:36] <daftykins> you may be able to use that key to download the ISO from Microsoft too
[19:36] <daftykins> so you may not even have to worry about making restore media
[19:36] <kevin-laptop> It's funny how many laptops I've had to remove Windows 8 from for clients
[19:36] <kevin-laptop> Nobody wants it
[19:36] <ali1234> yet they pay for it anyway
[19:37] <kevin-laptop> Indirectly ;)
[19:37] <daftykins> *nod*
[19:37] <daftykins> although you can just install classicshell.net
[19:37] <daftykins> give them that 7 experience on 8
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> classics-hell
[19:37] <kevin-laptop> Yeah
[19:38] <kevin-laptop> Have a few doing that
[19:38] <kevin-laptop> I run Windows 8 solely for Battlefield 4
[19:38] <dwatkins> I have start8, works well enough considering I paid Â£25 for Windows 8 to play games on.
[19:39] <MartijnVdS> I have Win8 on a touch-screen laptop, dual-booting with Ubuntu
[19:39] <MartijnVdS> and using the touch screen, Win8 isn't too bad once you have 8.1
[19:39] <kevin-laptop> Haha
[19:40] <kevin-laptop> It does look very touch optimised
[19:40] <daftykins> i got the cheap upgrade 8 but i've yet to use it
[19:40] <daftykins> :)
[19:43] <daftykins> only 8 Pro can be 'downgraded' to 7 legally
[19:49] <dwatkins> I miss NT 3.51.
[19:54] <daftykins> heh