[07:01] morning all [08:04] morning everyone, [08:06] Morning all [08:06] morning diplo [08:10] pip pip [08:10] morning hrh popey [08:11] I'm late today - anyway morning. [08:13] merh [08:16] morning morning [08:16] \o [08:16] pah why is no one here to say morning at 6am ;) [08:17] well 7am lol [08:17] MooDoo: I was locked out of the office, and my laptop battery was empty [08:18] MartijnVdS: unacceptable ;) [08:19] connecbot on his nexus5 :) [08:19] connectbot* [08:19] MooDoo: obviously, otherwise I'd been working from the hallway (wifi penetrates walls now!) ;) [08:20] MartijnVdS: what's wifi? Don't you use a long cat5 cable under the door like me :) [08:22] MooDoo: this laptop doesn't have ethernet [08:23] MartijnVdS: wow what laptop? [08:24] MooDoo: Dell XPS-12 [08:25] ordered when you couldn't get the previous "Developer Edition" XPS-13 anymore, and before the new one was announced [08:25] *sigh* [08:27] ah! [08:32] hello [08:46] morning JohnRobert [09:13] happy moist morning [09:13] http://www.raintoday.co.uk/ [09:13] it's chuffing it down here in notts [09:13] sure is [09:13] glad I don't have to go out :P [09:18] Laney: hope it stops at 3:30 or i'm going to get wet riding home :) [09:18] was hoping to go to the bank at lunch :( [09:18] Laney: argos for me :S [09:21] today in the office: http://www.supermatt.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/20131120_090816.jpg [09:21] ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD [09:21] One of those mornings. Just managed to pour coffee over iPad and Nook at the same time [09:22] :( [09:22] all cleaned up in rapid time tho [09:22] ouchy [09:23] maybe we need to dedicate a UDS session to popey's various tech fails [09:23] it seems every week something of yours goes wrong [09:23] ☻ [09:23] Oh, and my desktop boots to a bios screen saying B4 now and then [09:23] and the keyboard is sometimes not detected (I believe B4 means this) [09:23] also, when booting to Ubuntu/Windows on it, sometimes I have to wait for 30 seconds after login screen before keyboard works at all [09:24] fine once it works, but there seems to be some BIOS/USB issue going on [09:24] Good morning all; happy Name Your PC Day! :-D [09:24] alan@wopr:~$ hostname [09:24] wopr.popey.com [09:24] ☻ [09:24] wolk [09:24] pronounced volk? [09:24] popey: vell, not quite :) [09:25] popey: ask Google Translate, it knows how to pronounce it :) [09:32] Good morning peeps :) [09:32] \o bigcalmian [09:32] hello bigcalm :D [09:38] Hmm. spotify broke for me today. [09:39] popey: on LInux? let me check mine [09:39] yeah [09:39] message on the console about deadlock detected [09:39] are you running trusty or saucy? [09:39] http://community.spotify.com/t5/Help-Desktop-Linux-Mac-and/LINUX-60-sec-freeze-at-startup/td-p/392592 [09:39] saucy [09:39] popey: 1:0.9.4.183.g644e24e.428-1 ? [09:40] 1:0.9.1.55.gbdd3b79.203-1 [09:40] hmm [09:41] popey: there's been a new key for their archive for about 5-6 months now I guess (maybe a bit longer) [09:41] popey: maybe you didn't get that, and it stopped upgrading? [09:41] I'm on my desktop not laptop, probably why [09:41] i dont think i have the ppa enabled here [09:41] yeah, no ppa [09:41] popey: deb http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free [09:42] ta [09:42] and their key is 94558F59 I think [09:42] Get:1 http://repository.spotify.com/ stable/non-free spotify-client amd64 1:0.9.4.183.g644e24e.428-1 [47.4 MB] [09:42] \o/ [09:42] *\o/* [09:43] hmm, still blocking / greying out [09:44] Stränge [09:44] Stränge indeed [09:44] I've just given up with spotify [09:44] 09:44:16.634 E [storage.cpp:3307 ] Storage error: realm: 3, file: 609a7fbfde6aae95babb1b18231ee7f3a3ceee01, error: 709, OS error: 0, count: 1 [09:44] I've moved to google play [09:44] SuperMatt: I want to, but I get spotify for free [09:45] Have never tried spotify [09:45] ah [09:45] SuperMatt: I've told Google which music I have using their management tool, and the playlists it generates are amazing :) [09:45] Failed to create secure directory (/run/user/1000/pulse): Permission denied [09:45] well I can't agrue with that [09:45] oof [09:45] /o\ [09:46] bug 1197395 [09:46] bug 1197395 in systemd (Ubuntu Saucy) "/run/user/$ID/pulse owned by root and not by the user" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197395 [09:46] THAT BUG [09:46] hiiiiiiiiii [09:48] you mean you're not logged in as root all the time? :) [09:48] bashrc: I am, is that ok? ps want my bank details ;) [09:48] ;-) [09:49] oh. it's one of those bugs [09:49] an eye-rolling bug? [09:54] * popey ignores the discussion on those bugs and chowns /run/user/1000/pulse [09:57] how to resolve 807 error vpn server [09:57] MooDoo [09:57] dvrr: (a) what kind of VPN server? (b) What did you do (details!), what happened, what did you expect would happen? [09:58] I'm reminded of the article entitled "cost of 0wnership" which detailled the disadvantage of how powerful linux is and how a compromised linux server can be more useful to hackers than a compromised windows server. [09:58] pptpd [09:58] Many people misread it as "ownership" instead of "0wnership", perhaps a better title would have been in order. [09:58] i fallow this url http://jesin.tk/setup-pptp-vpn-server-debian-ubuntu/ [09:59] http://www.immunitysec.com/downloads/tc0.pdf for the curious [10:00] dvrr: you know PPTP is not secure, right? [10:02] I'm getting lots of tabs crashing in chromium today [10:02] i don't know i search in google only [10:03] http://store.steampowered.com/app/253370/ crashes chrome for me [10:03] THANKS DIRECTHEX [10:03] THIRECTHEX [10:05] 123 pages of PDF to go through for job candidate shortlisting :-| [10:06] Worth a read: http://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-munich-rejected-steve-ballmer-and-kicked-microsoft-out-of-the-city/ [10:07] MartijnVdS : which vpn server is secure please tel me i will search in google i will configure [10:08] dvrr: IPSec/L2TP and OpenVPN. OpenVPN is the easiest to configure. [10:09] my 13.10 desktop is pretty borked and I can't put my finger on what it is [10:09] tabs crashing left and right in chromium, slow response [10:09] thought you said something about problems after moving it [10:09] yeah, re-seated RAM [10:09] memtest okay [10:10] once we had a contractor who installed RAM with vaseline on her fingers [10:10] smoke started pouring out of the PC [10:10] I've been getting spontaneous reboots once a day lately [10:10] :( :( :( [10:10] chrome crashed my X session when opeining discourse.ubuntu yesterday [10:10] laptop is also re-triggering usb connection to iphone [10:10] every second or two [10:10] I had a crash last night using eog, but I'm using lts ;) [10:11] popey is a one man advert not to buy a TP [10:11] * mungbean haz LTS [10:11] how is it thinkpad related? [10:11] mungbean: I'm using lts on the desktop, don't need anything else. [10:11] i was thinking of your heat problems the other day [10:11] pretty sure it's kernel or desktop [10:11] oh yeah, that sucks [10:11] I probably wont buy another thinkpad now [10:12] although I am told the newer intels are better heat performers [10:12] developer edition XPSes though... [10:12] i still see a lot of dell latitude d6x0 around. testament to how solid they were [10:12] yeah [10:12] G+ notification: "Carlo Orosei invited you to join gnewsense" [10:12] I'll get right on that. [10:12] after joining diapora [10:13] * popey is on diaspora ☻ [10:13] that still exists? [10:13] wow diaspora still goin? [10:13] its a fight to the death [10:13] last man standing [10:13] last activity 29 days ago on my stream [10:13] popey and jef spaleta are the only 2 left [10:14] not that I follow anyone [10:14] I only login when someone mentions it [10:14] thanks mungbean [10:14] pleasure [10:14] haha.. most recently update is this... [10:14] William Kennington - 20 days ago - "Join us now and share the software." [10:14] followed by a comment... [10:15] Ryan Larson - "YOU'LL BE FREEEEEEEEE HACKERS YOU'LL BE FREEEEEEE!!!" [10:15] yup. thats diaspora [10:15] so the Bad Voltage guys were right about it! [10:16] lol 2 years ago I got the last notification in diaspora [10:17] damnit, you reminded me about bad voltage now [10:17] popey: is that bad? [10:17] did anyone listen to that radio4 prog with maggie philbin? [10:17] no, stored it for later listening [10:17] somewhere [10:17] i might get it sped up so i can listen in double time [10:17] half the time [10:17] popey: I use Podkicker Pro for that, on my phone [10:17] works great :) [10:18] LAS would sound like the muppets on double speed [10:18] hey bert, hey ernie [10:18] hope the sloes turn up today [10:18] #gingingingin [10:18] sounds like crazy frog [10:19] Laney: what does the fox say? [10:19] the... fox... [10:20] MooDoo: The FOX says "Fgshgfhgs MURRICA", right? [10:20] MartijnVdS: think you'll find it's spelt cha cha cha cha cha cha chow ;) [10:20] it's like the Daily Fail of American TV [10:23] is that like 20th century fox? [10:24] bashrc: for your entertainment ;) - http://youtu.be/jofNR_WkoCE [10:28] lubotu needs to parse youtube urls and post the titles [10:29] "Salary expectation: £1 000 000 [10:29] hmm [10:36] MartijnVdS: what about the opsnsuse version ;) - http://youtu.be/VNkDJk5_9eU [10:37] i will configure IPSec/L2TP and OpenVPN. only ubuntu system not in router it is secure [10:39] MooDoo: sky's looking nice and blue now! [10:39] dvrr: no [10:39] Laney: yeah rather happy about that [10:39] dvrr: IPSec/L2TP is one choice, OpenVPN is another choice. [10:39] dvrr: you don't have to do both, just OpenVPN is enough [10:40] Laney: got a new chair yet? [10:40] MooDoo: "What does the FAQ say?" [10:40] popey: yeah, went for the markus [10:40] not quite ready to step up to the aeron/m just yet [10:40] i had to superglue my chair to stop it flipping back with a *crack* [10:42] oh I took a picture of the old one [10:42] it was quite amusing towards the end of its life [10:42] yeah, I saw the nice liste it had developed [10:42] MartijnVdS:okk thank you very much [10:42] ah did I upload it? [10:43] clever laney [10:43] you did [10:43] there's a standing desk in my future though I feel [10:44] yeah, I'd like one of those [10:44] maybe when I finally get the garage converted to an office [10:44] Laney: with or without a treadmill? [10:44] haha [10:44] Laney: people do that.. at *very* low speeds [10:44] (slower than "strolling") [10:44] yeah I've heard about it... probably not for me [10:45] ok, now imgr is causing chromium to crash [10:45] any suggestions on debugging this? [10:45] popey: time to reseat your RAM [10:45] * popey reboots to memtest for a bit [10:45] \o [10:47] predicts errors [10:47] I'd be looking at the strace output, too. [10:48] * popey looks up the price of new RAM ☹ [10:48] yo, dudes. Ubuntu 13.10 machine won't boot; dies n grub rescue. Grub says unknown flesystem. Have booted from usb; i now plan to fsck the partition on the disk, but.. how do i know which filesystem it is? Was a clean install of *probably* 11.10 and then upgraded since. ext3? ext4? [10:48] ext4 [10:48] mount it and check the release file [10:49] dwatkins: he can't mount, errors. [10:49] dwatkins: can't mount it [10:49] you dont need to know what filesystem it is [10:49] fsck will figure that out [10:49] "sudo fdisk -l" [10:49] that will list all partitions [10:49] there's another grub resuce cd, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair [10:49] oh sorry, thought that was just a boot problem [10:50] * dwatkins confused fsck and mkfs in his mind [10:50] popey: fdsk just says the partition is "Linux" [10:50] probably not a good thing to confuse [10:50] aquarius__: i didnt say it would tell you what the filesystem was [10:50] just which partition it is, so you know what to feed fsck [10:50] sudo fsck /dev/sdb1 [10:50] for example [10:50] add -v in there, maybe [10:50] if you want verbosity [10:50] uh -V [10:51] popey: I did "fsck -N /dev/sda1". It says stuff about /sbin/fsck.ext2 [10:51] .. both? [10:51] popey: (-N is dry run) [10:51] aquarius__: fsck.ext* = the same [10:51] "stuff" [10:51] you may want to install some useful stuff in the live environ [10:51] popey: am concerned that it can't read the disk and so assumes ext2 [10:51] like smartmontools and pastebinit [10:51] does it actually fail to mount? [10:51] dwatkins: yes [10:52] what does it say when it fails to mount? [10:52] what's the error? [10:52] it demands that I tell it the filesystem [10:52] so tell it ext4 [10:52] if that doesn't work, ext3 [10:52] etc :) [10:52] unless you installed btrfs, but you'd know if you had [10:52] MartijnVdS: I don't know enough to know whether that might make things worse. :( [10:52] MartijnVdS: your answer is much better than using xxd, which I was about to suggest ;) [10:53] aquarius__: it won't. [10:53] hang on, let me irc from the live environ [10:53] I know NTFS contains the letters NTFS in the first few bytes of the filesystem, not sure if that's the case for ext[2-4] [10:53] ...and I'm not about to unmount something to find out ;) [10:53] aquarius__: you're sure you're mounting the right partition? [10:53] dwatkins: nah, ext3 is just ext2 with a journal, and ext4 is just ext3 with some other improvement bits, it's all quite gradual [10:53] (hence me asking you to run fdisk -l) [10:54] yo. [10:54] it's the aquaman [10:54] popey: yes [10:54] wow, the first few k of my ext3 partition are zeroes [10:54] sudo head /dev/sda1 doesn't show that much of interest [10:54] We're live here today with Stuart Langridge who is coming to us from "shit creek"... Hows it going there Stuart? [10:54] * dwatkins shrugs and lets it carry on [10:55] popey: He seems to be looking for a paddle 8-) [10:55] MartijnVdS: strings doesn't say much either [10:55] http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6447541/ [10:55] dwatkins: "file" should be able to identify it, if you have a dump of the first few kb/mb [10:55] MartijnVdS: /dev/sdb1: block special [10:56] oh an actual copy, duh [10:56] have you tried mounting it by specifying the filesystem? [10:56] don't forget -o ro [10:56] so I can't mount without knowing filesystem type, and I don't know how to find that out. I can try ext4, then ext3, etc... but am concerned that mount is meant to do this for me and isn't, which suggests deeper corruption [10:56] mount -t ext4 /dev/sda1 /mnt [10:56] MartijnVdS: nice! /tmp/sdb1: Linux rev 1.0 ext4 filesystem data, [10:56] you can mount it read-only if you want [10:56] -o ro -> read-only -> important in situations like this [10:56] I think we have a winnar [10:56] dd is your friend [10:56] popey: I didn't do that because I don't know what the filesystem *is*. MartijnVdS suggests that trying ext4 and getting it wrong is not a problme [10:56] * dwatkins goes to read a really boring security document [10:57] i agree with MartijnVdS, but you can mount -o ro [10:57] mount -o ro -t ext4 /dev/sda1 /mnt [10:57] "Ubuntu’s Mir won’t replace X in 14.04 desktop" [10:57] Oh joy. [10:57] also, smartmontools provides smartctl - use that to check if the ssd is badgered [10:57] how bad is it when I can vividly imagine aquarius_live reading his messages out? [10:57] won't mount. [10:58] I need more tea, maybe with a dash of vodka [10:58] aquarius__: which error? [10:58] mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1, (etc) [10:58] "And Ubuntu for phones and tablets will eventually support Android apps." <-- is anybody else apathetic to Ubuntu phones? [10:58] fails for ext4, ext3, ext2. [10:58] Myrtti: vodka with a dash of tea? [10:58] popey: will try smartmontools [10:58] With Android, Google gets all your personal info. With Ubuntu, Amazon and Canonical get all your personal info. [10:58] its not encrypted is it? [10:58] And the NSA gets info for both. [10:58] GentileBen: shut up [10:58] jussi: for gods sake, it's Wednesday and not even noon yet [10:58] Hey popey, shut up yourself. [10:59] aquarius__: ok, so e2fsck -v /dev/sda1 [10:59] tiresome trolling about amazon is tiresome [10:59] I think popey has a better idea what's going on [10:59] and the amazon thing is all just FUD [10:59] Myrtti: hehe, ok, wait an hour or 2 :D [10:59] ooh, errors from smartctl [10:59] pastey pastey [11:00] heh, that could have sounded like I was telling the pastey guy to paste [11:00] which could hold true for aquarius_live [11:00] aquarius_live: "new underpants" kind of errors? [11:00] http://paste.ubuntu.com/6447563/ [11:00] "what did I have on this disk which isn't backed up" kind of errors? [11:00] MartijnVdS: nfi. I know nothing about this stuff. [11:00] I am *reasonably* confident in my backups. [11:01] if I could remember how to get dd to output to stdout, I'd suggest using that piped into file (count being low) [11:01] dwatkins: don't provide an "of=" and it'll use stdout [11:01] MartijnVdS: that fails :'( [11:01] MartijnVdS: you suggest e2fsck, but what if it's ext3? [11:02] am extremely, extremely scared of screwing this up :) [11:02] aquarius_live, the ext2 tools still work. [11:02] aquarius_live: e2fsck checks ext{2,3,4} [11:02] ah, that's reassuring [11:02] aquarius_live, the mount will have failed because the "superblock" which defines the file system start point is corrupted. fortunately, ext* stores lots of spare copies [11:03] ok, e2fscking [11:03] 7 raspberry pi devices have arrived [11:03] aquarius_live, "dumpe2fs /dev/sdXX | grep superblock" will tell you where all the superblocks found on the disk are [11:03] if there are logs in SMART though, it's time to order a new hard disk [11:03] \o/ [11:03] heh. Inode 7 has illegal block(s). Clear? [11:03] AlanBell: \o/ [11:03] Not at all sure whether I should say yes or no to that question! [11:03] AlanBell: \o/ [11:03] aquarius_live, and "fsck -b SOMEBLOCKNUMBER /dev/sdXX" will do a fsck using the backup [11:04] aquarius_live, if this is an SSD, it is possibly failure. if it's failure, it's likely catastrophic. non-enterprise ssds have totally catastrophic failure modes due to the way flash is written [11:04] it's an SSD, indeed [11:04] only had the darn thing two years! grrrrr [11:05] aquarius_live, which brand? [11:05] not sure. whatever came in it [11:05] what did it come in? :) [11:05] Device Model: JMicron 616 SSD [11:05] so says smartctl [11:05] hm [11:06] aquarius_live, oh, you can also try mounting using a backup superblock, with -o sb=SOMEBLOCKNUMBER, using the numbers you got from dumpe2fs [11:06] all right, here I go in to the heady world of writing my own juju charms [11:06] SuperMatt: good luck! [11:07] restoring from backup, SuperMatt? [11:07] thanks, I think I'm going to need it [11:07] when a cell in a flash chip on an enterprise becomes corrupt, it takes all data stored in that same row or column, not just the cell. [11:08] in a consumer ssd, the failure is in 3 axis, not 2, so you lose N times more data [11:08] directhex: and dumpe2fs's lines such as "Backup superblock at 163840, Group descriptors at 163841-163848" means that 163840 is a block number? So mount -o ro -t ext3 -o sb=163840 /dev/sda1 mnt ? [11:08] dwatkins: no, I need nginx with a specific plugin that isn't in the repos, and then of course I'll have my own configs to go with that [11:08] SuperMatt: sounds like you have a complex day ahead of you [11:08] sure I do! [11:08] aquarius_live, you pass options to mount of the form -o option1,option2,option3. so -o ro,sb=163840 but basically yes [11:09] can't decide if it's better to compile the version of nginx first, and stick it in a git repo, or have the charm download the lastest version of nginx and the plugin and compile them and install time [11:10] same errors about a bad superblock or wrong fs type when passing -o sb=whatever. Tried as -t ext{4,3,2} with -o ro,sb=X for X being a few of the superblocks shown by dumpe2fs :( [11:11] is there some science to the patterns memtest uses? [11:11] I mean I get 00000000 and FFFFFFFF and the 010101 and 101010 ones.. [11:11] I assumed they were random. [11:11] which reminds me, there should be a charm for a freedombox type install (diaspora, owncloud, etc) [11:11] no, there's repeating patterns [11:11] popey: all zeroes, all ones, bit on, bit off [11:12] bc709893 for example [11:12] 438f676c [11:13] popey: write them in binary, you might see patterns that way? [11:13] oh, "Test #8 [Modulo 20, Random pattern]" ☻ [11:13] yeah, did that ☻ [11:13] directhex: so, mounting passing the backup superblock doesn't work. So it's a fsck, I suspect (and possibly that won't help either, if it's honestly scragged, of course). Is it better to let fsck try and fix things, or does that make it worse? [11:14] aquarius_live: if you have a big enough disk, you could "dd" the partition to a backup (image) file first [11:14] aquarius_live: that way, whatever fsck does, you have an "original" image [11:15] you could even copy the image file and fsck THAT instead [11:15] MartijnVdS: I do not. Only one disc in this machine, and the main partition takes up very nearly all of it. It's only a 120GB SSD; I can't afford to leave half of it empty. [11:15] ---> PCWorld [11:15] aquarius_live: sure, but maybe you have a 2TB usb disk lying around :) [11:15] aquarius_live: the partition image would fit on that easily [11:15] MartijnVdS: ha! It took me ages to find a 1GB usb to put the boot disk on ;) [11:16] popey: that's the plan, but obviously recovering the data from this disk is 1.8 zillion times easier than from backups. [11:16] I think my error was suspending it by closing the lid, and then letting it run out of battery. Not that that *should* be an error, mark you, but I shan't do it again. [11:17] so, do I fsck and say yes to all its questions about fixing stuff? [11:17] i would go and get another disk and recover that way personally [11:18] aquarius_live: you could run it with -y if you don't want to do that manually [11:18] aquarius_live, i don't think you're going to find a better way to recover your data than what fsck tries to do with it [11:18] popey: how do I "recover that way"? Not sure how having another disk helps -- how do I get the data off this one? [11:18] directhex: ah, cool, that's a useful piece of advice. Will do that. [11:18] aquarius_live: once you have an image, you can do things like photorec on it [11:19] maybe ddrescue [11:19] Certainly another disk sounds like the way (question: how do I know that the problem is the disc and not, say, the controller that it's plugged into?) [11:19] i hate talk of failing hdds and backups and the like, makes me worry about my data :< [11:19]