| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/appdev-2/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/21/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-2.html | ||
| === tvoss_ is now known as tvoss|test | ||
| === tvoss|test is now known as tvoss | ||
| === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach | ||
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-2 to: Track: App Development | Apps Performance | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22079/appdev-1311-sdk-apps-performance/ | ||
| dpm | for those who want to join the session: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpjsk16jg1c64ngroaoqte3o | 13:58 |
|---|---|---|
| cgoldberg | mhall119, got a hangout link for app performance? | 13:59 |
| nik90 | cgoldberg: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpjsk16jg1c64ngroaoqte3o | 14:00 |
| popey | dpm: you're live | 14:02 |
| karni | Hi dpm, you're live | 14:02 |
| dpm | thanks | 14:02 |
| dpm | http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-appdev-1311-sdk-apps-performance | 14:02 |
| Kaleo | hi | 14:02 |
| dpm | for those who want to join the session: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpjsk16jg1c64ngroaoqte3o | 14:02 |
| Kaleo | any app dev around? | 14:03 |
| dpm | any app developers who'd like to join? | 14:03 |
| nik90 | dpm: I only have questions | 14:03 |
| nik90 | dpm: do I still join the hangout? | 14:03 |
| dpm | nik90, sure! | 14:03 |
| Kaleo | kenvandine, wanna join? | 14:04 |
| Kaleo | oSoMoN, ?N :) | 14:04 |
| oSoMoN | Kaleo, joining | 14:04 |
| pmcgowan | bfiller, ^^ | 14:05 |
| bfiller | pmcgowan: yup I'll join | 14:05 |
| kenvandine | Kaleo, i might jump on in a few | 14:05 |
| Kaleo | https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/presentation/d/15Gc9MKTQnhUcXtL9GrBdv8va6o8ZfPy_DelfTspbucs/edit#slide=id.p | 14:05 |
| popey | dpm: click on yourself so we see slides | 14:08 |
| popey | we see Kaleo while he's talking, not slides | 14:08 |
| mardy | +1 | 14:08 |
| dpm | popey, yeah, did it a while ago, sorry | 14:08 |
| dpm | you'll get it after the delay | 14:08 |
| popey | kk | 14:09 |
| === dbarth__ is now known as dbarth | ||
| alex-abreu | Kaleo, are the instrumentation aqtc tool's results consistent when running on desktop & phone (they must be for some area but maybe not others), can we use it remotely ? | 14:13 |
| alex-abreu | QUESTION ^ | 14:13 |
| Kaleo | http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtquick/qtquick-performance.html | 14:13 |
| alex-abreu | Kaleo, :) ... yeah but in terms of GPU rendering etc ... | 14:16 |
| alex-abreu | Kaleo, so can we remotely use the tool? | 14:16 |
| dpm | alex-abreu, I understood that we can, but we'll ask Kaleo on the live session in a minute | 14:17 |
| alex-abreu | dpm, great thx | 14:17 |
| pmcgowan | alex-abreu, I think the other approach is to use a higher bar metric on the faster platform when you measure | 14:18 |
| cgoldberg | besides rendering time, are there any other internal performance metrics that can be logged to console? | 14:19 |
| alex-abreu | pmcgowan, yeah *if* the measures stay proportionate relative to one and another when running on the phone which is not a given afaik | 14:19 |
| pmcgowan | ack | 14:19 |
| pmcgowan | is it mir or some combination of upstart apparmor etc? | 14:22 |
| popey | Nope. I don't agree that it's just mir | 14:22 |
| popey | Before mir, app startup was still poor, multi-second sometimes. | 14:23 |
| pmcgowan | what is the best way to analyze app startup ? | 14:23 |
| greyback | Prelinking might be an idea too: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Prelink | 14:23 |
| kgunn | just an fyi, if you you've got the choice, have your gl texture sizes in power of two will often help perf | 14:23 |
| popey | +1 qmlscene. | 14:24 |
| pmcgowan | dpm, lets take an action to do the analysis, assign to me or bill? | 14:27 |
| dpm | pmcgowan, ack | 14:27 |
| ChrisGagnon | cgoldberg: you can use benchmark_ in qmltestrunner | 14:28 |
| cgoldberg | ChrisGagnon, nice.. I'll have to talk to about that | 14:28 |
| greyback | In 5.0 & 5.1, the profiling env var is QML_RENDERER_TIMING. But in 5.2 onwards, it is QSG_RENDER_TIMING | 14:29 |
| cgoldberg | ChrisGagnon, got a link to benchmark_ or qmltestrunner in general? | 14:30 |
| pmcgowan | dpm, btw running in the emulator shows performance issues as well since its much slower under emulation | 14:30 |
| oSoMoN | looks like the scene graph renderer is going to give us a much improved performance in Qt 5.2: http://blog.qt.digia.com/blog/2013/09/02/new-scene-graph-renderer/ | 14:30 |
| popey | The discussion so far has mostly been about app startup and interaction. What about the shell itself? The UI becomes very sluggish once a few apps are open. Are we measuring that? | 14:34 |
| pmcgowan | popey, I think we know what that is | 14:34 |
| pmcgowan | something to do with graphics buffers, Kaleo looked into it | 14:34 |
| karni | So there's a difference between operation kicking in long (like waiting for a download from the store to start) which should be indicated by a spinner or something, and an operation taking unacceptably long on the UI thread (i.e. you press a button, see it's highlighted, when you lift a finger, it's still highlighted because the operation hooked to that button has not finished). The spinner is responsible of the developer, the latter ... | 14:34 |
| karni | ... visual feedback responsibility of the platform/framework to indicate "hey you, developer, you actually can do this better than what you did here". | 14:34 |
| popey | ok | 14:34 |
| * karni initially posted to wrong channel | 14:34 | |
| pmcgowan | more a bug than a bp | 14:36 |
| karni | I meant that showing a spinner for long lasting operation is a responsibility of the developer. While indicating a long lasting operation on the UI thread would be the responsibility of the platform/framework. | 14:36 |
| popey | bug 1238684 | 14:36 |
| udsbotu | Ubuntu bug 1227739 in unity-mir "duplicate for #1238684 Mir continues to render background application surfaces even when they're not visible" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227739 | 14:36 |
| popey | maybe not, that's old | 14:37 |
| greyback | Yeah, we need to investigate the slowdown. Not sure what's wrong. | 14:37 |
| karni | Yes, you got my question right. | 14:37 |
| Kaleo | karni, sorry, I don't know the answer :) | 14:37 |
| karni | That's okay. What I mean is that we could try helping with a visual feedback to indicate "you're doing too much on UI thread". | 14:38 |
| cgoldberg | is there an API for the QtCreator Profiler? I want to launch an app, profile actions, then extract timing data.. automagically | 14:38 |
| karni | That'd be pretty significant chunk of work, though, I can imagine. | 14:38 |
| dpm | alex-abreu, it seems the QML profiler works remotely too | 14:38 |
| alex-abreu | dpm, ok thx for getting back to me | 14:38 |
| karni | i.e. Android whould show ANR (App not responding) dialog after a couple seconds if you're doing too much on the UI thread. | 14:38 |
| Kaleo | http://qt-project.org/doc/qtcreator-2.8/creator-debugging-qml.html#setting-up-qml-debugging | 14:38 |
| karni | This encourages great focus on never doing more than minimum work on the main thread. | 14:39 |
| karni | Oh yeas, I love that. FPS, touches, view outlines, etc | 14:40 |
| greyback | Detecting hanging application: yes that's something we've in mind | 14:40 |
| karni | ack | 14:40 |
| pmcgowan | reasonably good but need more focus on it, measure and analyze | 14:43 |
| karni | QUESTION: Does our QML somehow reuse views in the background for long lists? | 14:47 |
| karni | i.e. the views that disappear at the top get reused and appear at the bottom | 14:47 |
| t1mp | karni: what do you mean with views? | 14:48 |
| mhall119 | welcome to parenthood Kaleo :) | 14:48 |
| karni | t1mp: whatever constitues a QML element showing info. a Label, for instance. or a whole tree of views | 14:48 |
| karni | 2 labels, image, button, whatever, bundled in one QML "Item" | 14:49 |
| karni | Do we just GC those or re-use them | 14:49 |
| greyback | The proper fix is for Mir to tell shell when the application has drawn it's first frame - only then can shell take the screenshot away | 14:49 |
| t1mp | karni: ok, got it. thanks | 14:50 |
| karni | Aha, so we have view re-use. Great! | 14:50 |
| t1mp | if you pageStack.push("url.of.a.qml") then it is only loaded when the push is called | 14:52 |
| t1mp | components get instantiated when you push them | 14:52 |
| t1mp | Items that are defined inside another loaded Item, are created/loaded before they are pushed | 14:53 |
| karni | Thanks for the session guys, I need to drop. | 14:55 |
| popey | no action about shell performance? | 14:56 |
| robotfuel | cgoldberg: we should add the report the the dashboard | 15:00 |
| cgoldberg | robotfuel, definitely. | 15:00 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/appdev-2/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/21/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-2.html | ||
| pmcgowan | very good thanks | 15:00 |
| greyback | good session, thanks! | 15:01 |
| Neo31 | thanks :) | 15:01 |
| === oSoMoN_ is now known as oSoMoN | ||
| ahayzen | vthompson, like .pls files? | 15:23 |
| ahayzen | vthompson, ah wrong channel lol | 15:24 |
| vthompson | ahayzen, haha | 15:26 |
| vthompson | ahayzen, and yes. But it seems that's not a use case. | 15:26 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-2 to: Track: App Development | Startup Splash Screen for apps | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22080/appdev-1311-sdk-appstartupsplash/ | ||
| dpm | Kaleo, and everyone else wanting to join: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpj6fmlcg38c0822d3h38e2c | 16:05 |
| dpm | Kaleo? | 16:07 |
| dpm | joining us? | 16:07 |
| bfiller | http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-appdev-1311-apps-systemapps-roadmap | 16:07 |
| Saviq | greyback, you wanna join the hangout? | 16:09 |
| greyback | ok | 16:09 |
| dpm | hangout for the live discussion: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpj6fmlcg38c0822d3h38e2c | 16:09 |
| dpm | notes: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-appdev-1311-sdk-appstartupsplash | 16:10 |
| kalikianatoli | I'm also sdk | 16:10 |
| kalikianatoli | I can join | 16:10 |
| kalikianatoli | I think florian had a conflict with anothe session | 16:10 |
| dpm | thanks kalikianatoli | 16:11 |
| aquarius | sorry I'm late; now catching up with the discussion :) | 16:15 |
| aquarius | At least some people will want to use a screenshot *of* their app as the splash screen so that it looks like it starts up really fast. That may not be a good idea (it looks like your app has started but is unresponsive), but having guidelines on that might be a good idea | 16:18 |
| dpm | aquarius, fancy to join us? -> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpj6fmlcg38c0822d3h38e2c | 16:19 |
| aquarius | also, if we're doing multiple form factors, there ought to be a "cascade" defined: that is, define what happens for various splash screens being present. So, if you provide a portrait image and no landscape image, then on a landscape form factor say "we will display your image as big as possible, centred, on a white background" | 16:20 |
| aquarius | an app can't update its own splash image -- the splash image will be stored with the click package, and apps can't write to their own package | 16:21 |
| aquarius | dpm, I'm not sure I'm totally caught up because I missed the first 15 minutes :) | 16:21 |
| aquarius | can join ifyou want me to | 16:21 |
| dpm | aquarius, here are some notes, but sure, always good seeing and talking to you! | 16:22 |
| dpm | http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-appdev-1311-sdk-appstartupsplash | 16:22 |
| aquarius | I have a stupid question | 16:52 |
| aquarius | there's no way we can just... make app startup be faster? | 16:52 |
| aquarius | dpm, ^^ | 16:52 |
| aquarius | Saviq, ^^ | 16:53 |
| Saviq | aquarius, wrong session, and yes, but then we'll never reach startup time fast enough to not need a splash screen | 16:53 |
| Saviq | aquarius, especially since we don't actually control it | 16:54 |
| greyback | aquarius: yep, looking into preloading libraries needed, and Mir seems to cause a real startup slowdown too. | 16:54 |
| aquarius | ah, I saw a session about faster startup! I thought that was the OS, not apps :) | 16:54 |
| aquarius | Saviq, good call -- we will always need them, you think. fair comment. | 16:54 |
| aquarius | thank you, all :) | 16:54 |
| Saviq | aquarius, thanks, was very useful to have you there ;) | 16:55 |
| greyback | aquarius: thanks for dropping by! | 16:55 |
| aquarius | no worries :) | 16:55 |
| aquarius | I am fulfilling my role as an app developer :) | 16:55 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/appdev-2/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/21/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-2.html | ||
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-2 to: Track: App Development | Input method support in Ubuntu Keyboard | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22076/appdev-1311-apps-keyboard-input-methods/ | ||
| bfiller | https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1q7yySh39k3Hspif_iE12AN2YNP1dIp8N1XDDVpJ0Aas/edit | 18:06 |
| * cwayne couldnt get pinyin to work | 18:12 | |
| cwayne | even with latest trunk | 18:12 |
| bfiller | https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-moenicke/ubuntu-keyboard/ubuntu-keyboard-language-plugins/+merge/196105 | 18:12 |
| cwayne | so this should switch over once the locale is changed automatically? | 18:14 |
| penk_ | http://penkia.blogspot.tw/2013/06/ubuntu-touch-handwriting-recognition.html | 18:15 |
| penk_ | what about voice recognition :P | 18:18 |
| penk_ | here's a prototype https://github.com/penk/SlateKit/tree/master/IME/pocketsphinx | 18:19 |
| penk_ | voice input, yup | 18:19 |
| cwayne | bfiller, tmoenicke_ : whenever i try to use it, i still get english words int he ribbon | 18:21 |
| tmoenicke_ | cwayne: yes | 18:21 |
| bfiller | cwayne: we'll fix it | 18:22 |
| tmoenicke_ | cwayne: lets try after the meeting | 18:22 |
| cwayne | tmoenicke_, sure thing | 18:22 |
| cwayne | bfiller, thanks | 18:22 |
| cwayne | are these plugins going to be click pkgs? | 18:26 |
| cwayne | rex tsai | 18:27 |
| tmoenicke_ | cwayne: right thx | 18:28 |
| lool | bfiller: we can have a new click package type if you like | 18:28 |
| lool | bfiller: we discussed this in another session | 18:28 |
| lool | bfiller: but defining isolation/confinment is IMO too heavy here | 18:28 |
| lool | we can just review the source code of these special click packages | 18:28 |
| tmoenicke_ | ok | 18:29 |
| lool | bfiller: we dont really need to enable thousands of new input methods to be shipped as click | 18:29 |
| cwayne | or we need to have them all preinstalled | 18:29 |
| lool | either way is fine | 18:29 |
| lool | the point is just that we dont need to develop a confinment methodology if we control all the input methods | 18:29 |
| cwayne | im +1 for either way, click pkgs make it the easiest to get a new one in the image | 18:29 |
| penk_ | tmoenicke_: oh btw, there's an invokable needed, to change candidates on wordribbon from javascript | 18:36 |
| penk_ | tmoenicke_: I had a brach back in June | 18:36 |
| penk_ | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~penk/phablet-extras/maliit-plugins-qml-candidates/revision/2135 | 18:36 |
| tmoenicke_ | penk_: ok i will add it | 18:54 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/appdev-2/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/21/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-2.html | ||
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| === cwayne is now known as cwayne-afk | ||
| === another`tune is now known as green-trine | ||
| green-trine | http://geeks.pirillo.com norweigan ʇǝsʇ | 21:38 |
| green-trine | I just about loling over the frozen beauty of my Nexus 7 on AWS .. Is this appp going to be another addition ? http://code.google.com/p/debmarshal/ | 21:48 |
| green-trine | I'll check the logs later .. thank-yous. | 21:49 |
| === cwayne-afk is now known as cwayne | ||
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