[03:00] <JohnC> hola de que se trata esto?
[07:13] <Neo31> Hello, does the meeting start at 18:05 UTC ?
[14:54] <fginther> good [morning|afternoon|evening|night]
[14:55] <fginther> cjohnston, do you know who is running this track?
[14:55] <ogasawara> fginther: hi, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpirvjdcq5ofrvqvkmkqslps?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:55] <fginther> ogasawara, thanks!
[14:58] <fginther> cjohnston, Ursinha, want to join the hangout?
[14:58] <Ursinha> fginther, sure
[14:58] <cjohnston> not sure I need to
[14:58] <fginther> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpirvjdcq5ofrvqvkmkqslps?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:59] <Ursinha> cjohnston, worst case you won't say a thing :)
[15:00] <fginther> Saviq, want to join the hangout? https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpirvjdcq5ofrvqvkmkqslps?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:03]  * tedg puts on his asbestos suit, let's rock!  :-)
[15:03] <dobey> tedg: heh
[15:03] <fginther> tedg, dobey, either of you want to join the hangout?
[15:03] <fginther> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpirvjdcq5ofrvqvkmkqslps?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:03] <fginther> anyone else ^
[15:03] <dobey> i can i guess
[15:03] <tedg> fginther, Sure
[15:04]  * tedg does his hair
[15:04] <Ursinha> haha
[15:04] <fginther> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpirvjdcq5ofrvqvkmkqslps?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:07] <josepht> lower thirds please :)
[15:09] <sergiusens> tedg, we did have ddebs for most of the manhattan stuff
[15:09] <tedg> sergiusens, Yeah, I know, I just want to ensure it's a feature into the future.
[15:11] <cwayne> what is the timeframe for these changes?
[15:14] <cwayne> awesome, thanks
[15:16] <dobey> no lower third with no camera :)
[15:16] <dobey> josepht: ^^ just saw your comment
[15:18] <sergiusens> I have lots of questions, but they don't seem in scope
[15:18] <sergiusens> how is the emulator going to solve the ci problems?
[15:18] <fginther> sergiusens, ask anyway :-)
[15:18] <sergiusens> is click testing tied to the emulator?
[15:19] <cwayne> there is still going to be *some* actual hw testing right?
[15:19] <cwayne> or will that just be sergiusens's papi testing?
[15:20] <sergiusens> Saviq, we actually don't do that for clicks either
[15:20] <tedg> Saviq, I've always viewed QML as a cry for help, nice to hear you say so too!  ;-)
[15:20] <sergiusens> cwayne, lol, I cannot not laugh when reading papi testing
[15:20] <dobey> heh
[15:20] <cwayne> sergiusens, lol i know, i love it
[15:21] <mzanetti> :D
[15:21] <cwayne> but is that testing going to be the only hw testing now?
[15:22] <cwayne> i mean, we do need some level of hw testing obviously, but i see where it would make more sense for apps to be tested on emulators
[15:22] <dobey> there really should be no reason to test on actual hardware, for things that don't talk directly to hardware; for mir it makes sense, for a unity scope, not so much
[15:23] <mzanetti> Saviq: well, you could probably hook into the JS engine and check read/write access of public properties
[15:23] <mzanetti> tedg: in qml _every_ line is "executed" at startup
[15:23] <tedg> mzanetti, Okay, I've got some recommendations for speeding up startup then :-)
[15:24] <mzanetti> tedg: you need to read it to know when to creat it
[15:24] <mzanetti> so you need to read the file at least once. and that's what happening - at the startup
[15:24] <cwayne> dobey, right, i'm +1 ont hat, but just making sure we will still have some baremetal testing, even if it is just for mir for example
[15:25] <tedg> mzanetti, You need to read the file, but you don't need to create objects based on it or parse deeper than "oh, I'll need this someday"
[15:25] <mzanetti> Sarvatt: but that you can count
[15:25] <mzanetti> Saviq: ^ - but sure it's really not trivial
[15:26] <Saviq> mzanetti, yeah, for bindings, we'd have to see whether all the branches were executed
[15:26] <mzanetti> tedg: well, depending on how you write it, they are not created. but still interpreted
[15:26] <doanac`> real h/w testing will continue. we just want to find a better balance between that and virtualized to increase scalability and reliability.
[15:26] <cwayne> +1 on that
[15:26] <cwayne> i'd +more-than-1 if i could :)
[15:26] <tedg> mzanetti, Makes sense, so code coverage would be when objects are created, not interpreted.
[15:27] <sergiusens> fginther, click packages require ubuntu touch
[15:27] <mzanetti> tedg: I'm thinking more about "used" instead of "created". but yeah, something along those lines
[15:27] <fginther> sergiusens, wouldn't that work on a touch emulator?
[15:27] <Ursinha> sergiusens, join the hangout? :)
[15:27] <sergiusens> fginther, I suggest you try to run the emulator on the cloud now that it's there ;-)
[15:33] <dobey> sergiusens: can you add the lower third?
[15:34] <sergiusens> dobey, sure, should be automatic :-)
[15:34] <fginther> ogasawara, you can close the hangout now
[15:35] <ogasawara> thanks, will do
[15:36] <doanac`> thanks fginther
[15:36] <fginther> thanks all!
[15:37] <cwayne> thanks guys!
[16:00] <ogasawara> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpi1hhd2cgo0j1h4c242ik7k?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:02] <ogra_> lool, want to be in the fishbowl ?
[16:02] <ogasawara> apw, lool, rsalveti: ^^ fyi
[16:05] <rsalveti> joining in
[16:06] <ogra_> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpi1hhd2cgo0j1h4c242ik7k?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:06] <ogra_> sforshee, intrested in being in the fishbowl ?
[16:07] <ricmm> im interested
[16:07] <ricmm> to not talk
[16:07] <ogra_> heh
[16:07] <sforshee> ogra_: I'll jump in if needed
[16:08] <sforshee> ogra_: I'm a bit under the weather, so if I don't have anything to contribute then there's no reason to make everyone watch me blowing my nose ;-)
[16:09] <lool> heya
[16:09] <lool> which is that
[16:09] <ogra_> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpi1hhd2cgo0j1h4c242ik7k?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:12] <sforshee> rsalveti: you don't want powerd, if anything upower
[16:12] <sforshee> rsalveti: but the battery information is in /sys/class/power_supply
[16:13] <sforshee> ogra_: the kernel provides the abstraction: /sys/class/power_supply
[16:13] <sforshee> though some logic is needed to figure out the right place to get the battery status
[16:14] <sforshee> let me join
[16:14] <cking> the reliability of the data can be platform specific though
[16:16] <ogra_> ChickenCutlass, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpi1hhd2cgo0j1h4c242ik7k?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:16]  * cking notes that a 1% charge could be a long time on some large batteries 
[16:18] <cking> some devices, 1% may be a very short time, so it may be device specific, e.g. 5 mins? 10 mins? 20 seconds? ;-)
[16:18] <ogra_> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-core-1311-low-battery-boot-mode
[16:25] <jodh> ogra_: /etc/init/friendly-recovery.conf
[16:26] <jodh> ogra_: we just need to change /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init to pass the custom startup event see last line of that file.
[16:26] <jodh> ogra_: last 2 lines :)
[16:31] <jodh> ogra_: subvert the boot if battery is low (as above). When battery level > some threshold, "initctl emit startup" to resume normal boot.
[16:32] <ogra_> yeah
[16:36] <jodh> np! :)
[16:37] <ogra_> ogasawara, you can stop the recording
[16:37] <ogra_> and thanks all, for coming !"
[16:37] <ogasawara> ogra_: thanks, done.
[17:59]  * rsalveti waves
[18:00] <rsalveti> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpiorbncb4s4j02ib1noi6is?authuser=0&hl=en it seems
[18:01] <rsalveti> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-core-1311-touch-emulator
[18:01] <rsalveti> pmcgowan: ^
[18:02] <rsalveti> is zoltan around?
[18:02] <pmcgowan> rsalveti, he is but cannot joing the HO
[18:02] <alecu> hola!
[18:02] <rsalveti> we need someone from CI
[18:03] <rsalveti> plars: ^?
[18:03] <dkessel> is there already some preview version of the emulator?
[18:03] <rsalveti> dkessel: yup
[18:03] <rsalveti> dkessel: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg05195.html
[18:05] <dkessel> rsalveti, ah, a normal package... nice :)
[18:05] <bzoltan> rsalveti: I do not join to the hangout because I am still mute
[18:08] <pmcgowan> bzoltan, ping me if I need to hop on the session
[18:08] <bzoltan> pmcgowan:  OK
[18:12] <bzoltan> Yes
[18:12] <bzoltan> rsalveti:  Yes,
[18:13] <bzoltan> rsalveti: Yes, you start the emlator and it works with the QtC out of box
[18:13] <ogra_> bzoltan, oh, it does already ?
[18:13] <ogra_> thats cool
[18:13] <bzoltan> rsalveti:  The emulator is just an adb device
[18:13] <ogra_> (and fast ... for two days)
[18:14] <bzoltan> ALL
[18:14] <ogra_> :)
[18:14] <bzoltan> rsalveti:  we backport to PQRS
[18:14] <bzoltan> packaging is cool
[18:14] <ogra_> ++
[18:15] <Neo31> packaging yes
[18:15] <janimo> it's cool unless the target is fast moving :)
[18:15] <bzoltan> at the SDK team we move fast ...
[18:16] <bzoltan> rsalveti:  we need to fix the adb port forwarding and small things
[18:17] <bzoltan> +1
[18:18] <bzoltan> yes
[18:18] <bzoltan> it is a single line
[18:18] <ogra_> whats wrong with ssh ?
[18:18] <bzoltan> ogra_:  QtC uses adb
[18:19] <bzoltan> No
[18:19] <bzoltan> I need to fix the QtC scripts
[18:19] <bzoltan> Yes
[18:19] <bzoltan> It is QtC side
[18:19] <bzoltan> :D
[18:19] <bzoltan> there is a delay
[18:19] <bzoltan> sorry
[18:20] <ogra_> are we ? i thought we grab the tarball from scimge
[18:20] <ogra_> *cdimage
[18:21] <bzoltan> rsalveti:  may I have a minimal rootsrap to use as a builder? We have click chroot as main target... but a fully emulated native builder would be cool as fallback
[18:21] <ogra_> bzoltan, that will be slow as hell
[18:21] <bzoltan> rsalveti: or an R&D enabled image
[18:21] <bzoltan> ogra_:  it is not that slow ...
[18:22] <ogra_> bzoltan, qemu only emulates a 400MHz single core
[18:22] <bzoltan> ogra_: I just have built the UITK in the emulator
[18:22] <sergiusens> bzoltan, did you try building on the emulator?
[18:22] <sergiusens> and thats faster that a qemu chroot?
[18:22] <bzoltan> sergiusens:  I did not _TRY_
[18:22] <bzoltan> sergiusens:  I did :)
[18:22] <ogra_> bzoltan, if you want a qemu-system based emulator to build in there are way better options
[18:23] <bzoltan> ogra_:  I know ...
[18:23] <ogra_> (we have a qemu highbank option afaik ... )
[18:23] <bzoltan> ogra_: I need to talk to you about it
[18:23] <ogra_> sure
[18:23] <ogra_> :)
[18:23] <fginther> plars, has emulator on a VM (cloud) been discussed?
[18:23] <plars> fginther: not yet
[18:24] <plars> fginther: should be possible I would think, but it may be awfully slow
[18:24] <fginther> plars, sergiusens expressed some concerns other then slowness in a prior session
[18:24] <plars> fginther: I was going to ask about it, since I know it's something we want to do :)
[18:24] <fginther> thx
[18:29] <Saviq> Ctrl+F12 to rotate
[18:29] <Saviq> ChickenCutlass, rsalveti, sergiusens ↑
[18:29] <ChickenCutlass> Saviq, nice
[18:29] <ChickenCutlass> ok
[18:29] <ogra_> wow
[18:30] <ogra_> that works really nicely
[18:30] <Saviq> ogra_, didn't rotate the browser for me, though
[18:31] <ogra_> well, still booting here
[18:31] <ogra_> but i can rotate while it boots :)
[18:31] <ogra_> lol
[18:31] <ogra_> and comes up sideways
[18:31] <Saviq> ogra_, see! it emulates real life ;)
[18:31] <MacSlow> ogra_, Saviq: true real-world case :)
[18:31] <ogra_> heh
[18:32] <rsalveti> Saviq: awesome, need to give it a try
[18:32] <Saviq> rsalveti, so it just looks like the sensor does not give up the rotation change
[18:32] <Saviq> rsalveti, so just more hw enablement
[18:32] <rsalveti> Saviq: right
[18:32] <ogra_> yeah, browser is sideways here
[18:32] <rsalveti> should be easy to fix :-)
[18:32] <ogra_> i guess we need some sensor hook-up
[18:33] <jdstrand> QUESTION: can we look into a snapshot option? it doesn't have to be complicated-- use qcow2 disk and add --snapshot and --revert options to run-emulator. this will allow developers to easily revert to a pristine snapshot, which is highly useful for testing
[18:33] <ogra_> poer button doesnt work either etc ... i guess thats similar
[18:33] <ogra_> jdstrand, only if that ancient qemu supports that ... and we dont have qcow images atm
[18:34] <jdstrand> ancient qemu should support snaphost, but if not you could also use backing store
[18:34] <jdstrand> s/snaphost/snapshot/
[18:34] <asac> so feels if we do real driver testing we need a maas cloud
[18:34] <Saviq> FYI: more keyboard shortcuts http://developer.android.com/tools/help/emulator.html#KeyMapping
[18:34] <asac> so we can provision on bare metal etc.
[18:34] <asac> or can we share drivers across multiple VMs?
[18:35] <ogra_> what do you mean by drivers exactly ?
[18:35] <jdstrand> technically, it could be opt in-- you could use qemu-img to convert to qcow2 after downloading the image
[18:35] <asac> if we have servers with GPUs :)
[18:35] <ogra_> oh, yeah, the server definitely needs the GPU
[18:35] <asac> we could run them on bare metal and use GL properly... otherwise i assumed we would just run against software mesa
[18:35] <ogra_> most likely even running X
[18:35] <asac> etc.
[18:35] <asac> in virtual... but might be too slow
[18:36] <ogra_> or xvfb ... not sure that provides GL
[18:36] <asac> right. but our current machines ... namely otto etc. are always busted
[18:36] <asac> because we do raw GPU testing
[18:36] <ogra_> then we need a dedicated machine
[18:36] <asac> so we need maas to automatically recover rather then alwys do manual maintenance
[18:36] <jdstrand> image snapshotting doesn't have to be complicated btw. people can get super clever-- only really need snapshot and revert to snapshot
[18:36] <ogra_> desktop class machine ...
[18:37] <asac> desktop is where the test machines always hang
[18:37] <asac> because of GPU crashes
[18:37] <asac> -> e.g. that should be maas with automatically reflashing machines with a safe iamge
[18:37] <ogra_> asac, right, it wouldnt put any load on the GPU
[18:37] <ogra_> but it needs something at the desktop end to hand through the GL
[18:37] <ogra_> so you need some X server/Xvfb etc running
[18:38] <asac> sure. X would run etc.
[18:38] <asac> if we want to use pass through... still needs to be maased etc.
[18:39] <asac> IT WILL MESS UP TIMEOUTS :)
[18:39] <jdstrand> ogra_: what version of qemu is it based on?
[18:39] <asac> and we should fix those
[18:39] <asac> hehe
[18:39] <ogra_> jdstrand, dunno, but likely older than your grandma ...
[18:39] <ogra_> rsalveti knwos i think
[18:40] <ogra_> 0.9 or some such ?
[18:40] <jdstrand> I was doing backing stores with qemu a *long* time ago
[18:40] <asac> i think the emulator is well usable ... even though pretty slow. the problem i see is just how i can do gestures. can we mayb hook the buttons up to various gestures?
[18:40] <asac> like the home button gets the swipe to home?
[18:40] <ChickenCutlass> asac, yes, that would be good.
[18:41] <asac> rsalveti: ChickenCutlass: ^^
[18:41] <doanac`> do we have a ppa from the emulator or is it just packaged for trusty?
[18:41] <ogra_> asac, the buttons should go away
[18:41] <asac> oh already answered
[18:41] <sergiusens> I thought we'd remove all buttons :-P
[18:41] <ogra_> ++
[18:41] <asac> ogra_: we can use different images... doing a swipe is not very easy with mouse
[18:41] <ogra_> well, we should keep power and volume
[18:41] <asac> and especially in slowness for now
[18:41] <ogra_> asac, works for me ... you need to be patient :)
[18:41]  * Saviq just started a unity8 autopilot run
[18:41] <asac> so having a button to do a full left/right/up/down swipe
[18:41] <asac> would be good for productivity
[18:42] <ChickenCutlass> ogra_, asac the performance is good for me.
[18:42] <ogra_> yeah, same here
[18:42] <ChickenCutlass> need to wait until the system settles
[18:42] <asac> if it is triggered by emulator
[18:42] <Saviq> please let's not hook into unity
[18:42] <asac> it should come from hardware as a swipe at best :)
[18:42] <Saviq> or well, at most through autopilot
[18:43] <Saviq> UInputError: "/dev/uinput" does not exist or is not a character device file
[18:43] <Saviq> plars, ↑ when trying to run autopilot tests
[18:43] <ogra_> Saviq, autopilot wont be there for devs (for their brandnew app they test)
[18:43] <Saviq> ogra_, ap is seeded
[18:43] <ogra_> sure
[18:43] <ogra_> but if you are $random_dev you want to get your app done
[18:43] <asac> yeah maas is a CI engine topic to explore
[18:44] <asac> e.g. how to provisionm good worker nodes for the emulator
[18:44] <jdstrand> I'm curious now
[18:44] <MacSlow> Question: Will there be (command-line) switches to select a specific device to emulate (N4, N10 etc)?
[18:44] <ogra_> MacSlow, lol, no
[18:44] <jdstrand> I think I'll play with something (ridiculously rough) to see if we can do backing stores or snapshots
[18:44] <ogra_> MacSlow, it is completely based on the goldfish qemu emulator from google
[18:45] <MacSlow> ogra_, ok
[18:45] <ogra_> MacSlow, to get other device emu, you would have to write a complete qemu machine that emulates that device
[18:45] <ogra_> MacSlow, currently we are limited to a single core 400MHz CPU with 512M ram
[18:46] <Saviq> ogra_, probably depends on what MacSlow meant to select a device
[18:46] <Saviq> ogra_, one of the more important things is the resolution, which obviously would be available
[18:46] <ogra_> we will enable different screen resolutions
[18:46] <ogra_> that was discussed
[18:46] <ogra_> but we cant easily emulate another HW
[18:46] <asac> rsalveti: ChickenCutlass: also we want landscape/portrait mode
[18:46] <Saviq> yeah, not sure what else is different between devices
[18:46] <asac> is that something the emulator need to support?
[18:46] <ChickenCutlass> asac, yup, already covered that
[18:46] <MacSlow> ogra_, Saviq: well mostly default orientation and resolution... CPU/GPU not so much atm
[18:46] <asac> ah ok
[18:46] <asac> thanks
[18:46] <Saviq> asac, Ctrl+F12
[18:46] <ChickenCutlass> asac, already does
[18:47] <ogra_> MacSlow, that will be supported
[18:47] <MacSlow> ogra_, ok
[18:47] <asac> ok. nice on accell and orientation
[18:47] <ogra_> rsalveti, that was mostly about resolutions
[18:48] <asac> is someone from sdk in the sessionm?
[18:48] <bzoltan> _YES_
[18:48] <ogra_> asac, bzoltan is here
[18:48] <ogra_> (all the time)
[18:48] <ogra_> :)
[18:48] <asac> well. you cant see that in hyoutube
[18:48] <bzoltan> I am listening
[18:48] <asac> if you dont have a pic :)
[18:48] <ogra_> he isnt in the hangout
[18:49] <asac> would be nice to hear what the sdk vision is
[18:49] <asac> though
[18:49] <asac> anyway :)
[18:49] <asac> yeah ok
[18:49] <bzoltan> I am here!
[18:49] <ogra_> was discussed above
[18:49] <bzoltan> :)
[18:49] <ogra_> read the backlog
[18:49] <bzoltan> asac: I am temporarily mute
[18:49] <asac> ok sorry
[18:49] <Saviq> there's prior art on QtCreator + emulator
[18:49] <asac> hard to catch up on a video stream :)
[18:49] <Saviq> for MeeGo at least
[18:49] <asac> and then match the irc backlog
[18:49] <asac> hehe
[18:50] <Ursinha> lol
[18:50] <ogra_> asac, yeah, the important stuff happened in the IRC channel anyway
[18:50] <bzoltan> Saviq:  I know... I was working on it :)
[18:50] <ogra_> ignore the guys on youtube :P
[18:50] <Saviq> bzoltan, good!
[18:50] <ogra_> they just fill the pad over there
[18:50] <bzoltan> ogra_: they should join here and stop the crap there :)
[18:50] <ogra_> yeah
[18:51] <bzoltan> good stuff
[18:51] <Saviq> o/
[18:51] <ogra_> ++
[18:51] <MacSlow> Question: Regarding autopilot... ap-test passing on real hardware, but failing on the emulator will be considered an autopilot-binding bug on the emulator, right?!
[18:51] <bzoltan> MacSlow: nomen est omen :)
[18:51] <ogra_> MacSlow, they will have to be researched
[18:52] <Saviq> MacSlow, rather a bug in the test
[18:52] <rsalveti> emulator will be the first target
[18:52] <ogra_> we cant just blame the emulator, we have to look at the reasoning etc
[18:52] <rsalveti> can't fail in the emulator
[18:52] <MacSlow> Saviq, really?
[18:52] <rsalveti> can fail in devices, but still be critical
[18:52] <Saviq> MacSlow, if something would fail on the emulator, but pass on devices
[18:52] <Saviq> MacSlow, means it wouldn't pass on a high-load device either
[18:53] <jdstrand> ah
[18:53] <Saviq> MacSlow, 'cause that would just be timing-related
[18:53] <jdstrand> version 0.12.0
[18:53] <ogra_> jdstrand, oh, that new !
[18:53] <Saviq> MacSlow, so you'll need to make the test more robust
[18:53] <jdstrand> external/qemu/Changelog
[18:53]  * ogra_ expected older actually 
[18:53] <MacSlow> Saviq, ok... in that particular case (timing) I'd agree...
[18:53] <ogra_> o would have put my bets on 0.8 or 0.9
[18:53] <jdstrand> so, qemu-img still defaults to compat=0.10
[18:53] <Saviq> MacSlow, any other reason - as ogra_ said, would need to be investigatesd
[18:53] <Saviq> -s
[18:53] <jdstrand> so I think we should be ok with at least backing store (which is usable)
[18:54] <Saviq> MacSlow, but that should be really rare
[18:54] <MacSlow> Saviq, I hope so
[18:54] <rsalveti> jdstrand: cool
[18:54] <MacSlow> I'm good
[18:54] <Saviq> MacSlow, good thing is - Ubuntu in there doesn't even know it's running on an emulator
[18:54] <jdstrand> so, let me play with this
[18:54] <rsalveti> jdstrand: :D
[18:54] <jdstrand> I can resurrect some old scripts and maybe hand them off
[18:54] <Saviq> MacSlow, from our PoV it's just another device - albeit a slow one
[18:54] <Saviq> summary time
[18:55] <MacSlow> Saviq, ~4 times slower than a N10 I'd say
[18:56] <jdstrand> oh, that was fast. /me found the scripts :)
[18:56] <MacSlow> Saviq, ogra_: I'll give it a shot tomorrow