[14:01] <slangasek> heya - sorry folks, just one more minute on the hangout
[14:02] <slangasek> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpjsmf5m75etcllbd4s9csac
[14:03] <slangasek> jodh: ^^
[14:04] <jodh> slangasek: thanks
[14:06] <zyga> hi
[14:08] <josepht> streaming yet?
[14:08] <slangasek> one more second
[14:08] <slangasek> well
[14:09] <slangasek> now
[14:09] <arges-uds> HI
[14:09] <Mirv> .
[14:10] <zyga> I can see the stream now
[14:10] <zyga> hi!
[14:10] <Mirv> ^ that pip indicates when the stream started, to give an idea of delay :)
[14:17] <arges-uds> did anybody test this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/969489/comments/98
[14:17] <udsbotu> Launchpad bug 969489 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm tries (and fails) to start too early?" [High,Triaged] - Assigned to Dalmer Vieira (dalmer-vieira)
[14:20] <arges-uds> Won't people affected by this bug be willing to test solutions?
[14:23] <arges-uds> Gotcha.
[14:25] <smb> Would there also be a possibility to make feedback (like mountall waiting) also appear for configs that have console on serial?
[14:29]  * ogra_ would even go further ... redirect all logging to serial if available and still be able to show a splash on the framebuffer 
[14:31] <Mirv> QUESTION: Would the remaining (shutdown) part of bug #967229 fit to the blueprint? An OEM Priority tagged bug. I know it has been mentioned to be difficult without changing architecture some way, though.
[14:31] <udsbotu> Ubuntu bug 967229 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Text mode shown briefly with various "cryptic" texts when logging out or shutting down" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967229 - Assigned to Steve Langasek (vorlon)
[14:33] <karni> So there's a difference between operation kicking in long (like waiting for a download from the store to start) which should be indicated by a spinner or something, and an operation taking unacceptably long on the UI thread (i.e. you press a button, see it's highlighted, when you lift a finger, it's still highlighted because the operation hooked to that button has not finished). The spinner is responsible of the developer, the latter ...
[14:33] <karni> ... visual feedback responsibility of the platform/framework to indicate "hey you, developer, you actually can do this better than what you did here".
[14:34] <Mirv> karni: wrong channel? this'd be the boot experience one?
[14:34] <karni> dang it, appdev-2 not core-2, sorry ;)
[14:34] <karni> Mirv: thanks
[14:35] <Mirv> thanks slangasek, just checking if any new thoughts on the topic
[14:36] <smb> ogra_, me would be on the opposite side. Rather not be forced to move to framebuffer at all. Does not always work that well with virtual KVM switches and remote administration of servers... ;-P
[14:36] <smb> But one cannot get everything :)
[14:36] <ogra_> oh, i didnt mean to force people ...
[14:36] <apw> smb, can't you just disable plymouth for your case completely
[14:36] <ogra_> currentl plymouth doesnt allow serial and framebuffer at the same time
[14:37] <ogra_> apw, no, mountall needs it
[14:38] <smb> ogra_, Was not assuming you wanted to force me. :)
[14:39] <slangasek> apw: disabling plymouth completely means you can't interact with fsck if it goes pear-shaped
[14:40] <apw> slangasek, but can he disable splash and get textual and serialisable forms ?
[14:40] <slangasek> apw: ok, but that's not "disable plymouth" :)
[14:40] <smb> slangasek, not that I can interact with anything with plymouth still enabled but having console redirected to serial. ;) just saying
[14:43] <smb> jodh, slangasek have you looked at boot speed (on to lightdm - lightdm to desktop) generally (had the feeling it became slower at least on netbook i386 atom style hw)
[14:43] <slangasek> haven't looked into it; we should have routine bootspeed tests in the lab
[14:43] <smb> slangasek, Yep and when finding them they showed some slowing down
[14:44] <slangasek> ok
[14:44] <Mirv> I've had mostly trouble with shutdown speed :) I've manually tweaked sendsigs max delaay to 1 second on all my computers bug #1212142
[14:44] <udsbotu> Ubuntu bug 1212142 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Saucy) "Slow shutdown/restart on saucy with sendsigs waiting 10 seconds" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1212142
[14:45] <smb> Its a bit hard to dig down to useful runs to compare.... (bit being a bit underestimated)
[14:45] <smb> apw could tell about it when he remembers. :)
[14:47] <smb> ITs probably nothing that can be resolved here
[14:47] <smb> Just wanted to bring it up
[14:48] <smb> IIRC there was some reordering of executed thigns at some point and I think rendering seemed to get delayed
[14:49] <Mirv> yes, it seems I've the 10 seconds wait every time without reasonable reason
[14:50] <Mirv> thanks
[14:50] <slangasek> jodh: ^^ maybe you can work with Mirv to get additional one-off debugging info
[14:50] <smb> see you
[14:50] <ogra_> thanx
[14:51] <slangasek> perhaps there are lingering upstart user session shutdown problems
[14:52] <Mirv> sure, happy to help on debugging jodh. I think lp:~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/saucy/sysvinit/log-processes-and-open-files-on-shutdown however needs refreshing and retargeting to trusty.
[14:56] <jodh> slangasek, Mirv: sure.
[14:58] <mlankhorst> hey
[14:59] <apw> ho
[14:59] <smb> lets go
[14:59] <slangasek> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpjqblm39a6ab37ctlc75f3s
[15:02] <pitti> jibel: ^ do you join?
[15:02] <slangasek> bdmurray: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpjqblm39a6ab37ctlc75f3s
[15:02] <jibel> pitti, yes
[15:04] <slangasek> session is started - two minutes early :-)
[15:04] <mlankhorst> 2 minute lag
[15:17] <plars> I don't know that we're still planning to move all this to utah
[15:47] <xnox> ..
[15:48] <xnox> QUESTION: the amd64 tests will run with i386 multi-arch enabled right?
[15:49] <xnox> slangasek: from quantal to what? (straight to trusty)
[15:50] <slangasek> xnox: yes
[15:51] <xnox> ack.
[15:52] <bdmurray> jibel: /usr/share/ubuntu-release-upgrader/DistUpgrade.cfg <- that change?
[15:53] <xnox> and will we support raring straight to trusty as well? or do we expect raring people to upgrade via saucy?
[15:53] <jibel> bdmurray, there is this and there was another change in the upgrader code
[15:53] <jibel> bdmurray, it was when I checkd if it was possible to force the upgrade from LTS to any stable
[15:53] <slangasek> xnox: raring goes EOL before trusty is released, so they need to upgrade to saucy
[15:53] <xnox> ah, fair enough.
[15:54] <xnox> so it's only quantal, which is a unique 18m snow-flake.
[15:56] <xnox> slangasek: jodh: thanks for work-items on boot-ui session =) re: better handle output to console when splash is not in use - as far as I could tell, the plymouth-text-plugin seened to be modifyied to support same "progress" messages as "fancy graphics plugin" does. (if that's what you have discussed, haven't watched the video yet)
[15:58] <xnox> does X have security support?
[15:59] <slangasek> xnox: it's a protocol extension ;-P
[15:59] <xnox> =)))))
[15:59] <jibel> bdmurray, in MetaRelease.py line 276
[16:00] <jibel> bdmurray, it stops at the 1rst upgradeable release
[16:00] <mlankhorst> EOW :P
[16:00] <bdmurray> jibel: ah, thanks
[16:01] <slangasek> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpjlhnbik772ohdk2kqns32k
[16:04] <slangasek> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpjlhnbik772ohdk2kqns32k
[16:04] <jamespage> o/
[16:05] <slangasek> jamespage: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpjlhnbik772ohdk2kqns32k
[16:07] <pbass> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiT4gOXSkmapdGdFejk0MjFydUlNMDVoMXNRdGdkbFE#gid=1
[16:08] <bjf> the one question/issue i have (continuing issue) is launchpadlib and python 3
[16:09] <alecu> QUESTION: what's the color coding of the spreadsheet?
[16:11] <alecu> ah, it seems: unported=blue, inprogress=yellow
[16:13] <pbass> alecu:described in the blueprint: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Python/FoundationsTPythonVersions
[16:13] <cjwatson> bjf: I understand that it's stuck on zope backporting
[16:13] <cjwatson> or I probably mean just porting
[16:13] <alecu> great, thanks
[16:13] <bjf> cjwatson, is it on anyone's priority list?
[16:15] <cjwatson> not right now, the LP team was reduced to a shadow of its former self ...
[16:17] <bjf> cjwatson, i thought apport still uses lauchpadlib (could be wrong)
[16:17] <cjwatson> It may well
[16:17] <pitti> it does
[16:18] <pitti> and a whole lot of other bits too, but we don't ship them by default either
[16:18] <pitti> (we don't ship the apport python2 bits which needs launchpadlib by default)
[16:20] <jamespage> the other biggish one for server: maas
[16:21] <ralsina_> yes, xapian was the big problem and no, usc is not going away :-)
[16:21] <ralsina_> mvo had done some work on using sqlite FTS instead
[16:22] <alecu> we are keeping software center for 14.04, since we still need .deb apps for unity7, but we'll likely drop it once we have unity8 running as default on 14.10 or
[16:22] <alecu> later
[16:22] <xnox> thanks.
[16:23] <slangasek> well, we need .deb support in the USC replacement for some time to come
[16:24] <slangasek> please don't think that unity8 on the desktop means we don't need .deb support
[16:24] <kiwinote> fwiw there is app grid (improvement to s-c) ( http://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/app-grid-discover-and-install-apps-for-your-computer/960 ) which already runs fully on python3 already - the main issue is licensing atm, but that's within my control - if there's interest we can discuss
[16:25] <facundobatista>     3.4.0 beta 2: January 5, 2014
[16:25] <facundobatista>     3.4.0 candidate 1: January 19, 2014
[16:25] <facundobatista>     3.4.0 candidate 2: February 2, 2014
[16:25] <facundobatista>     3.4.0 final: February 23, 2014
[16:28] <ralsina_> kiwinote: that's *very* interesting, I'd love to talk with you about it :-)
[16:29] <alecu> kiwinote: what backend are you using for the ratings and reviews? the same one as usc?
[16:29] <alecu> kiwinote: it looks awesome indeed
[16:29] <kiwinote> alecu: yes, backend is rnr-server, but with a custom client side
[16:31] <kiwinote> ralsina_: feel free to e-mail me (@gmail) if you want to set up a hangout some time next week or so
[16:40] <sbeattie> python security support has not been too onerous; issues have commonly been around SSL issues IIRC; getting TLS v1.1 and v1.2 natively in python 3.4 (rather than pyopenssl) would be nice, I think.
[16:47] <ralsina_> SSO *may* go away
[16:47] <ralsina_> and be replaced by ubuntu online accounts :-)
[16:55] <ralsina_> reportlab is not near a py3 release at all
[16:56] <alecu> thanks, bye!
[17:58]  * slangasek waves
[17:59] <slangasek> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpjq10emqosh7e6eu20vbnas
[18:05] <slangasek> jamespage: hi, are you able to join this session to discuss the release schedule issues?
[18:06] <jamespage> slangasek, smoser should be along
[18:06] <slangasek> ok
[18:06] <slangasek> smoser: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpjq10emqosh7e6eu20vbnas
[18:07] <slangasek> live
[18:08] <knome> hey, sorry for being late. what's the youtube url?
[18:09] <slangasek> the youtube url is in the summit window, as normal... do you mean the hangout url?
[18:09] <slangasek> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpjq10emqosh7e6eu20vbnas
[18:09] <knome> no... the youtube url, i don't want to open the summit url (:
[18:10] <smoser>   Youtube: http://youtu.be/hsEfuUkiN2Y
[18:10] <smoser> knome, ^
[18:11] <knome> cheers
[18:12] <knome> has there been discussion about flavor release schedules?
[18:14] <knome> xubuntu, it looks like (for point release)
[18:15] <smoser>   Etherpad: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-core-1311-release
[18:21] <knome> release on wednesday april 30 (:
[18:28] <infinity> smoser: Since hangouts hates me.  Has anyone actually suggested to upstream that they release a week or two earlier?
[18:29] <infinity> smoser: In the past, they released on Apr 5 and Apr 4.
[18:29] <infinity> smoser: So, really, like I said, if they keep slipping, we can't adjust for them forever.
[18:31] <infinity> smoser: I think, in the future, we're going to end up always releasing with RCs, unless they pull their releases up a bit.
[18:32] <smoser> infinity, agreed.
[18:33] <knome> isn't the goal to have a stable release?
[18:33] <knome> yeah, but the next release is LTS+1
[18:35] <knome> it was brought to me elsewhere is that why aren't people still respecting freezes
[18:35] <knome> all this discussion seems to revolve around the same issue
[18:35] <knome> if we release on 17th, and you're late, then you're late
[18:35] <smoser> so we don't like to do SRU on fridays, due to fallout
[18:36] <smoser> but we'll do a release on the day before a 4 day weekend :)
[18:36] <slangasek> it's not a 4-day weekend for /all/ of us :)
[18:36] <cjwatson> I'm not wild about that either, but ...
[18:37] <knome> it's like giving people freeze exceptions before the cycle even began, and then moving around all other dates and other peoples' schedules
[18:37] <smoser> knome, i'm aware its not perfect.
[18:38] <smoser> (even with a high degree of fuzzyness around 'perfect')
[18:39] <knome> i mean, there was some serious discussions on "do not grant exceptions as much as before" in UDS-R, but then there was xmir landing with an exception (which fortunately didn't happen)
[18:40] <knome> ^ just some feedback for the review&discussion.
[18:41] <knome> is there any reason to not move the alpha1/2 freezes to mon/tue?
[18:41] <knome> like the beta freezes
[18:44] <cjwatson> I'm not actually concerned that icehouse is a freeze break in a meaningful sense, since in the past last RC -> final has been a trivial change
[18:45] <knome> sure, wasn't about that specifically
[18:45] <knome> brb
[18:53] <knome> (back)
[18:59] <knome> slangasek, ^
[18:59] <knome> --> is there any reason to not move the alpha1/2 freezes to mon/tue?
[19:00] <cjwatson> there's no alpha 1/2 freeze listed on the schedule right now at all ...
[19:00] <Laney> I think they will be, if we have a freeze at all
[19:01] <cjwatson> if we had them I wouldn't see a reason to have them be longer than the beta1 freeze
[19:01] <slangasek> knome: alpha1/2 freezes> oh, perhaps we should have discussed that explicitly, yeah... let me take an action to follow up on list, I think we definitely do want shorter freezes for the alphas
[19:01] <knome> well isn't there going to be *some* freeze anyway?
[19:01] <Laney> We agreed on shortening them in a thread last cycle
[19:01] <cjwatson> (which is listed as mon/tue)
[19:01] <knome> slangasek, cheers
[19:01] <infinity> +1 on formalising it to Monday, though it's not a hard freeze anyway, just a block and some discretion.
[19:01] <knome> is there an action item on following up with flavors on whether/which milestones they will participate in?
[19:02] <Laney> It'll be per-milestone
[19:02] <Laney> There's usually a call out $days before asking who wants to participate
[19:02] <knome> okay. does the release team want to track that somewhere, because i can promise xubuntu is opting-in in every milestone.
[19:02] <skaet> knome,  I'll take an action to get a survey done as part of alpha 1
[19:03] <knome> skaet, ^ there you go then :)
[19:03] <skaet> will put a page togehter.
[19:03] <knome> cheers
[19:03] <knome> i suppose that was all i had to ask for now... you can catch me on #ubuntu-release if needed.
[19:04] <Laney> So how are people supposed to get put forward for <archive management team>?
[19:04] <Laney> Asking for a friend.
[19:04] <Laney> Oh, got to go.
[23:49] <Guest17696> hey guys , i would like to know if x will be the default or mir be the default on 14.04 ?