[18:43] <robru> xnox, what's the deal with libpinyin4? i can't install it (even with -proposed enabled)
[18:44] <infinity> robru: Looks installible here.  Unless you mean in conjunction with what you already have installed?
[18:45] <infinity> robru: It breaks libpinyin2, so you'd need to wait for the transition to be complete there.
[18:45] <robru> infinity, well I have a freshly flashed mako with image 28. libpinyin4 is literally the first thing i'm trying to install. just says 'E: Package 'libpinyin4' has no installation candidate'
[18:46] <infinity> Oh, no installation candidate means it's not in your sources...
[18:47] <infinity> apt-get update? :P
[18:47] <robru> $ grep proposed /etc/apt/sources.list
[18:47] <robru> deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/ trusty-proposed main restricted
[18:47] <robru> deb-src http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/ trusty-proposed main restricted
[18:47] <robru> I updated 5 times trying to fix this!
[18:47] <infinity> It's probably in universe.
[18:47] <robru> ah
[18:47] <infinity> Which it likely shouldn't be.  I'll check and fix.
[18:48] <infinity> But for now, sed -i -e 's/main/main universe/' /etc/apt/sources.list && apt-get update
[18:48] <infinity> Err, no, it really should be in universe.
[18:48] <infinity> (And is)
[18:58] <robru> infinity, ok, got it, thanks.
[19:02] <xnox> infinity: ubuntu-keyboard is the last one that didn't transition to libpinyin4, i've ported it to libpinyin4 and it's been merged into lp:ubuntu-keyboard. this the 3rd time i'm being pinged about "libpinyin4" is not installable.
[19:02] <infinity> xnox: I guess archive components are a hard concept? :)
[19:03] <xnox> infinity: who knew?! =) i was asked about them at the interview.... granted i was interviewed by cjwatson  / slangasek.
[19:06] <slangasek> hmm
[19:07] <slangasek> robru: why are you installing from -proposed?  hopefully only for test builds, and not on your actual system
[19:34] <robru> slangasek, yeah, i'm testing the next version of ubuntu-keyboard and it has a hard dep on a version of libpinyin that is only in -proposed.
[19:35] <robru> slangasek, testing on my mako i mean, not on my laptop.
[19:35] <slangasek> robru: ok :)
[19:41] <robru> xnox, the error message is not exactly helpful.
[19:59] <xnox> robru: what can i say =) i didn't write apt =)
[19:59] <robru> xnox, WELL MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT 20 YEARS AGO, HUH!?!?!?!
[19:59] <robru> ;-)
[20:00] <robru> xnox, yeah, dunno. i just woke this morning with instructions to test the new ubuntu-keyboard, which was tricky to install. had no idea you'd been pinged previously
[20:14] <infinity> robru: I'm not sure how the error message could be more helpful.
[20:14] <infinity> robru: It can't tell you about packaged it doesn't know about.
[20:14] <infinity> s/packaged/packages/
[20:15] <robru> infinity, it might say 'Perhaps this package is from universe?' or it might say 'check your archive components' or something. 'not installable' when i can see the package is in -proposed and i can see -proposed is in my sources.list is unhelpful and infuriating
[20:15] <infinity> robru: And if you ask for a package that just doesn't exist, that error becomes more unhelpful than the current one.
[20:16] <infinity> (Which is probably the usual cause of it appearing for normal people)
[20:16] <robru> infinity, when a website is down and you try to load it in firefox, it lists possible reasons. 'this site might be down, your connection might be broken / etc'. apt could easily do something similar.
[20:17] <infinity> (There are also things that, for better or worse, parse that output and act on it)
[20:18] <infinity> I'm dubious that the set of "people who know what an archive component is" and "people who don't know that apt can't see packages it can't see" has much overlap.
[20:19] <infinity> And spelling it out for users who don't know what a component is doesn't seem like a sane thing to put in a terse terminal error message.
[21:26] <ScottK> infinity: "There's a problem, and if you haven't figured it out, you're too stupid to understand the explanation.  Have a nice day."