[07:44] <Z1efin> I need help with Nvidia Drivers for Ubuntu 13 is this a good room for this?
[08:41] <directhex> yes, 7:45 on a sunday morning is a great time to carcth UK people!
[10:27] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:35] <MartijnVdS> \o
[10:35] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[10:47]  * brobostigon had a spectacular idea in a halfasleep state this morning, he envisaged his own shop on second-lif
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> is second life still going then?
[10:48] <brobostigon> yes.
[11:29] <Rory> Hey, does anyone read Linux Format in here? They did a roundup either last issue or the one before, of RSS readers, and I can't remember the winner (it wasn't Feedly)
[12:43] <popey> brobostigon: welcome to 5 years ago
[12:43] <brobostigon> popey: certainly, it is a bad idea.
[13:06] <bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
[13:20] <Neoti> Anybody in here from around nottinghamshire and who has a CB Radio ?
[13:25] <gordonjcp> Neoti: that seems an oddly specific request
[13:25]  * gordonjcp does not have a CB radio but does have a lot of radio equipment
[13:25] <Neoti> gordonjcp: i just want to do a radio check thats all ...
[13:26] <gordonjcp> Neoti: no-one on Ch. 19?
[13:26] <Neoti> AM or FM, low mid or hi ? lol...
[13:26] <gordonjcp> well both 27/81 and CEPT require FM
[13:27] <Neoti> well i have a superstart 120 fm. i am on channel 19 hi
[13:27] <gordonjcp> ooo
[13:28] <gordonjcp> if conditions are up you might hit one of the websdr sites
[13:29] <Neoti> nope no one out there...
[13:29] <gordonjcp> if you can hear skip from Holland you might be able to hit the WebSDR at Twente
[13:30] <gordonjcp> 7MHz aside, I'm not that into all this close-to-audio stuff
[13:48]  * MartijnVdS just ordered one of those Realtek-chipset DVB sticks
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> to play with rtl-sdr
[13:48] <penguin42> yeh they're kind of fun
[13:49] <gordonjcp> yeah
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> the Twente one is also great -- you can see so many cool stuff on the lower bands
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> much*
[13:49] <gordonjcp> and what's amazing is not only can you use them as a powerful low-VHF-to-low-microwave SDR, you can use them to watch telly too
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> DCF-77, some number channels (morse mostly)
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: and listen to DAB radio, apparently
[13:50] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm going to toss some photons around later if you want to have a listen
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Well, the rtl-sdr is still in China atm, I really *just* ordered it a few hours ago
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> but I might give websdr a go
[13:55] <penguin42> note that the DVB-t telly stuff is a separate path; it's not done by the SDR data over the USB, the capture bandwidth isn't high enough for that - they have a demod for that
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: yeah, they can only get 3MHz wide from the SDR, and DVB channels are 8MHz wide
[13:59] <gordonjcp> aha
[13:59] <gordonjcp> yes
[13:59] <gordonjcp> the SDR stuff is done using what is effectively a test mode
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> lots of radio stations on the utwente websdr sound like the TARDIS or the alien probe from Empire Strikes Back
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> whoa.. bolivian radio stations
[14:22] <MartijnVdS> .. and a radio station that sounds like the Black Mesa Research Facility
[14:53] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: there are a lot of funny digital modes
[14:54] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: interestingly if you zoom in on some OFDM modes you can see they're more-or-less flat in frequency response
[14:54] <gordonjcp> and then you see diagonal dark bands moving, which is because of phasing from multipath reception
[14:55] <MartijnVdS> I have a Wi-Spy, and I see that on the wifi bands I think
[14:55] <MartijnVdS> diagonal bands
[14:55] <MartijnVdS> I think that might be some kind of part of the 802.11 protocols though
[14:57] <MartijnVdS> I know way too little about this.. where/how do I start learning more? :)
[15:43] <SuperEngineer> Impressed - with only 2GB mmeory & a low end graphics card - just played Half Life on Steam with 8 other programs still open.  Didn't even notice.
[16:04] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Looking, Half Life was originally released in '98 so that was probably high end then
[16:08] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[16:26] <Azelphur> Anyone know where I might get a copy of a newspaper printed in 2012?
[16:27] <penguin42> the newspaper publishers? A library?
[16:27] <SuperEngineer> Azelphur: local library?
[16:27] <Azelphur> was hoping for something online if possible
[16:27] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: snap!
[16:29] <SuperEngineer> Azelphur: that might cost you a subscrion to particular paper - if they allow archive access
[16:29] <Azelphur> SuperEngineer: yea, the only archive I've found for this paper is dated 1912 and before
[16:29] <Azelphur> it's the Kentish Express Ashford edition that I'm after
[16:31] <SuperEngineer> Azelphur: write to them / send them a usb stick & beg?
[16:32] <Azelphur> yea guess so
[16:32] <penguin42> oh one of the more major papers then....
[16:37] <ali1234> go to library and photocopy it
[16:56] <Azelphur> yea, seems like a library job for tomorrow :)
[16:56] <penguin42> hth do you tell firefox to stop looping gifs ?
[16:56]  * penguin42 has had a Mantis eating a fish in a loop for hours
[16:57] <SuperEngineer> penguin42:  errrmmmm... close firefox?   ;)
[16:58] <SuperEngineer> [sorry - couldn't resist]
[16:59] <penguin42> it's just one thing in my G+ feed
[17:15] <mungbean> bitcoins are $800 now?
[17:16] <mungbean> thought they were $200 last week
[17:16] <mungbean> crazy bubble time
[17:16] <Azelphur> mungbean: :)
[17:16] <Azelphur> mungbean: this is /after/ the bubble. This is the new stable price now I reckon.
[17:16] <Azelphur> it was $1000+ in the bubble
[17:16] <mungbean> bubbles first don't they?
[17:16] <mungbean> burst
[17:16] <Azelphur> it did burst
[17:16] <Azelphur> it dropped to $400 then normalised at $800
[17:16] <mungbean> yeah, bursting = $20 again
[17:17] <mungbean> in my book
[17:17] <Azelphur> you ain't gonna see $20 again.
[17:17] <Azelphur> no way :)
[17:17] <mungbean> thats how bubbles happen
[17:17] <mungbean> thats what they say just before a stock market crash
[17:17] <Azelphur> mungbean: Bitcoin is a successful venture, I see no burst nor any reason that it would burst.
[17:17] <mungbean> ^bitcoin^stock market
[17:18] <mungbean> something causes collapse in confidence
[17:18] <Azelphur> xD
[17:18] <Azelphur> mungbean: that already happened in the past, Bitcoin went to <$1
[17:18] <Azelphur> and then it picked back up again
[17:18] <mungbean> since bc isn't underwriten by anything like gold, it can crash to $0
[17:19] <mungbean> price starts dropping, people panic, thenm its a crace to the bottom
[17:19] <penguin42> mungbean: But the reasons for buying/selling gold have very little to do with actual using or posessing it
[17:19] <penguin42> mungbean: There's a lot of unease about the actual stocks of these precious metals
[17:20] <Azelphur> mungbean: been there done that, it came back up again.
[17:20] <mungbean> ok lets talk pork bellies instead
[17:20] <mungbean> mmm bacon
[17:20] <penguin42> mungbean: OK, lets talk guar gum - what influences the price of guar gum?
[17:22] <mungbean> supply and demand
[17:22] <mungbean> demand outstrips supply then price ++
[17:22] <mungbean> the inherent usefulness of the product
[17:22] <Azelphur> mungbean: I have my money where my mouth is with bitcoin, so we'll see ;)
[17:23] <penguin42> mungbean: Right, so you get something really random happen - like it starts being used by frackers (really) and it shoots through the roof, no one predicted it and then who knows it might stop being used
[17:24] <penguin42> mungbean: That's more real - it's actual stocks of the stuff but in principal could be very unpredictable
[17:24] <mungbean> but is underwritten by more stable markets though too right?
[17:25] <penguin42> mungbean: That I don't know, but I think so
[17:26] <mungbean> ice cream
[17:27] <mungbean> bc are pure speculation, likethe doctom bubble
[17:27] <mungbean> not to say you can't make money on the rising tide
[17:27] <mungbean> i always think of tulip mania at this point
[17:31] <penguin42> mungbean: But I think the metal markets aren't necessarily much better than tulip mania, especially for gold which doesn't have an intrinsic use
[17:34] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: don't let the ISS hear that - they might disagree somewhat
[17:34] <penguin42> ISS? (Not space station....)
[17:34] <SuperEngineer> yup
[17:35] <penguin42> does it use much gold?
[17:35] <SuperEngineer> ...any satellite or spoaceman also thinks it has a rather intrisic use - as so many earthbound bits of kit
[17:36] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: they use loads of the stuff
[17:36] <penguin42> why?
[17:37] <SuperEngineer> [so does a mobilee phone btw  - but to a *much* lesser extent]
[17:37] <SuperEngineer> spacemen / space instruments  they use it for protection - phones use it for vconnections
[17:38] <SuperEngineer> I use it to make me pretty ;)
[17:39] <dvrr> how to connect openvpn  windows client with certificates please help me
[17:40] <dvrr> popey
[17:44]  * mungbean has a gold tooth
[17:44] <penguin42> dvrr: my experience with vpns (which is very out of date and I can't remember much) is that you're probably best finding a relaxent before you start
[17:44] <mungbean> its a very non reactive metal
[17:51] <SuperEngineer> mungbean - the only thing that reacts with gold are stooopid "we buy old gold & nick your money" sites
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: also, aqua regia
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> (don't drink that)
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> uh
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer, but he left I guess
[20:41] <bigcalm> To re-ask a question I posted to twitter: Where do you keep your private GPG keys in case your SSD dies?
[20:42] <penguin42> on a separate encrypted device?
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> hmm QR code 8-)
[20:44] <daftykins> on a piece of paper!
[20:44] <daftykins> apparently most SSDs die in read only states though
[20:44] <daftykins> but yeah wouldn't rely on that :D
[20:45] <bigcalm> I'd love to get the data off of my dead SSD. But I have managed to install 13.10 onto a smaller, spare, SSD so that I can continue working
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: SSDs have weird half-erased fail states that happen when a block becomes unwriteable
[20:46] <daftykins> my intel X25-M G2 actually would BSOD win7 when it tried to read/write a bad sector that developed - i had to secure erase the drive to overcome it
[20:49] <penguin42> daftykins: But bigcalm's is the 2nd case I've heard of where the drive just died
[20:49] <bigcalm> The drive longer appears as a drive to any device it is connected to :(
[20:51] <bigcalm> +no
[20:51] <daftykins> ouch
[20:51] <daftykins> controller fail
[20:52] <AlanBell> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5206923 less than £1000 to go :)
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: \o/
[20:52]  * MartijnVdS needs to get an HDMI-to-DVI cable.. I can't use my Pi atm :(
[20:52] <bigcalm> AlanBell: yay
[20:52] <penguin42> AlanBell: How did you come across that book of pictures of delapitaed places?
[20:53] <bigcalm> They are exceedingly cheep cables now: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Premium-HDMI-Cable-Gold-Metre/dp/B000GDI6FC
[20:54] <daftykins> bigcalm: what type is said dead SSD?
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yeah, but shipping to not-UK is £expensive
[20:54] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Does your country not have a similar emporium of cheapo electronic bits?
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so I'm better of getting some AmazonBasics cables with some other items (to get to free shipping)
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: we have "allekabels.nl", which is cheap but not *that* cheap
[20:55] <AlanBell> penguin42: #surrey channel on irc.lug.org.uk
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> also, AmazonBasics cables are £3,99
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> not bad imho
[20:55] <penguin42> AlanBell: Ah right, I did have someone of the same name who used to work for me for a few years and I seem to remember he was a good photographer as well
[20:56] <bigcalm> daftykins: OCZ vertex 120GB. I've had 3 OCZ drives and this is the newest one. So I don't hate the brand yet :)
[20:56] <daftykins> ah-har
[20:57] <daftykins> original generation Vertex? think there were at least 4+
[20:57] <bigcalm> s/I've had/I have
[20:57] <bigcalm> Ug, bought in Jan last year
[20:58] <bigcalm> OCZ Agility 3 SATA III Solid State Drive 120GB
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: Amazon sells cables by weight, apparently: http://i.imgur.com/MHT1RfB.png
[21:04] <penguin42> nice
[21:07] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: give me a kilo of your finest HDMIs please, grocer
[21:08] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: --> Amazon
[21:08] <daftykins> ;)
[21:14] <maya-> :D
[21:14] <maya-> Hi nice peoples! I have a question. I have an HFS+ HDD in Ubuntu, and I’d like to change the permissions to I can read and write to it.  I already removed journaling. Any tips? :D
[21:15] <MartijnVdS> No idea.. I've found NTFS to be the best "shared" FS between Linux en MacOS
[21:15] <maya-> I’m not looking to share, per se.
[21:16] <maya-> I just need write access. :D
[21:17] <daftykins> probably best to avoid HFS+ then
[21:18] <daftykins> from what i heard the other day it's quite flaky
[21:20] <Fujio> hi
[21:20] <daftykins> hello
[21:33] <popey> hmm, want to root my nexus 7
[21:33] <daftykins> why-for?
[21:34] <popey> to use something that requires it
[21:34] <daftykins> ah-har
[21:34] <popey> doesnt seem straightforward
[21:34] <daftykins> they don't have easily unlockable bootloaders on those things?
[21:35] <ali1234> unlocking the bootloader isn't the same as rooting
[21:35] <daftykins> i know, but often it can be a helpful first step
[21:35] <ali1234> it is part of the process though
[21:36] <Fujio> hi popey
[21:36] <Fujio> can you run ubuntu on a nexus7?
[21:37] <popey> Fujio: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
[21:37] <Fujio> thanks
[21:39] <popey> found windows tools to root it, but having difficulty finding a nice easy linux way
[21:45] <ali1234> rooting typically means unlocking the bootloader and flashing a custom kernel
[21:45] <ali1234> i assume you've already done the former
[21:45] <Azelphur> ali1234: it does?
[21:45] <ali1234> for the latter, just find what kernel image that tool uses and flash it however you'd normally flash
[21:45] <ali1234> Azelphur: on nexus stuff it does
[21:45] <Azelphur> the vast majority of the time people just flash the SU binaries and superuser apk and stick with the stock firmware / kernels o.O
[21:45] <Azelphur> even more so on the nexus
[21:49] <ali1234> how do you "flash" the SU binary if you don't already have root?
[21:49] <popey> yeah, saw some instructions which is to install an su binary via a modded recovery
[21:49] <popey> ali1234: custom recovery
[21:49] <ali1234> right, modded recovery - which is a kernel image + initrd
[21:50] <ali1234> so you flash that the same way you'd flash an ubuntu touch image, for example
[21:50] <ali1234> then once you've got a modded recovery you can do whatever you want :)
[22:38] <spiritech> hi. i am running this command "sudo echo "/dev/sdb1 /media/sdb1 ext4" >> /etc/fstab" i use it as part of an install script. however it says permission denied. how can i run this command as the correct user?
[22:39] <directhex> spiritech, do you want to know why it doesn't work as-is, or just the answer?
[22:40] <spiritech> an answer would be ok. though i dont mind both if you have the time.
[22:40] <spiritech> i always thought sudo gave root perms.
[22:40] <directhex> pipe to tee. "echo foo | sudo tee /some/file"
[22:41] <directhex> sudo does. but you're sudoing the "echo" command. the redirect, i.e. the >>, is being done by the parent bash shell, which is not sudo'd
[22:42] <spiritech> so echo "kagfkasf" | sudo tee /etc/fstab
[22:42] <directhex> well, "kagfkasf" isn't a valid fstab entry. but yes.
[22:42] <spiritech> wes.
[22:43] <spiritech> i mean yessss
[22:43] <spiritech> i have necer used tee before.
[22:43] <spiritech> i assume tee reads STDOUT
[22:44] <spiritech> and writes to destination
[22:44] <directhex> that's exactly what it does
[22:44] <directhex>        tee - read from standard input and write to standard output and files
[22:45] <spiritech> so if there is a break in standard input do i need "" or does it do that automatically?
[22:46] <directhex> test it out into a safe file in /tmp
[22:48] <spiritech> ok. i will have a play. ty for your help.
[22:49] <spiritech> also i had probs with usb installer for 13.10 amd 64 desktop iso. i could make the start up usb. when i booted it would not install. had to use the mini.iso in the end.
[22:50] <spiritech> all good now tho.
[23:08] <ali1234> spiritech: you should be careful about mounting things manually in /media
[23:08] <ali1234> the standard is now to mount things under /media/<username>/
[23:26] <spiritech> ali1234. i am the only user. and it keeps my scripts more compact. can it cause any serious problems?
[23:26] <ali1234> probably not, unless your username is sdb1
[23:27] <spiritech> well thats ok then
[23:28] <spiritech> not sure why media needs a username. surely if its going to be mounted. well, it will be mounted and accessible by the current user.
[23:28] <ali1234> for multiuser systems
[23:30] <spiritech> oh. so certain drives are accessible by cerain users.
[23:30] <spiritech> surely that could be done with group permissions./
[23:31] <spiritech> or maybe not.
[23:32] <ali1234> well, you presumably don't want other users to see you've mounted /media/goatpron
[23:33] <spiritech> yes. whatever goatpron is.
[23:33] <spiritech> lol
[23:33] <ali1234> though i suppose they can still see it on the mountlist
[23:33] <ali1234> i don't really know what the real reasoning is
[23:33] <penguin42> ali1234: If it was a FAT partition it wouldn't have any permissions and probably anyone can read it?
[23:33] <ali1234> you can mount it with umask to fix that one
[23:34] <ali1234> though just making private user mount dirs is probably the easiest way
[23:34] <penguin42> true, I guess it means you don't get name clashes between different users
[23:35] <spiritech> so if i log in as a different user. say blobtech. and went to /media/...    i would not be able to see the other user list/folders. is that right.
[23:35] <spiritech> ?
[23:35] <penguin42> spiritech: I think that's the idea, and you could both plug in a thumb drive labelled as 'pictures'
[23:36] <spiritech> or would they be visible and not be able to enter them?
[23:36] <penguin42> not sure
[23:36] <ali1234> drwxr-x---+ 2 root root 4096 Nov 20 17:51 /media/al
[23:37] <penguin42> ooh with acls for extra fun
[23:37] <ali1234> that's the +?
[23:37] <penguin42> it's got some extra attributes on
[23:38] <penguin42> ok that's curious, my trusty box doesn't have /run/media or /media/dg
[23:40] <spiritech> surely the best way to do this would be to mount all drives in media, then set user permissions for each drive. rather than setting up a mount list to mount drives to certain users?
[23:41] <penguin42> spiritech: what happens if both of you wanted to mount say the same remote fileserver or something like that - it actually gets quite tricky depending  on the filesystem involved to maintaint aht type of permissions
[23:43] <spiritech> are we talking about two users, using at the same time. ;)
[23:43] <penguin42> yes
[23:43] <penguin42> or lock screen and then switch users
[23:43] <spiritech> oh. i see. i was assuming two users at separate times.
[23:45] <spiritech> so what your saying is its easier to have user mount points rather than setting user perms for each drive etc.
[23:46] <penguin42> nod
[23:46] <spiritech> so all your stuff is inhere    yours/....... and all my stuff is in here     mine/..........
[23:48] <penguin42> nod
[23:48] <spiritech> and its etc/fstab's duty to control where these things get mounted/ or drives anyway?
[23:48] <penguin42> no, it's udisks2 these days that does it
[23:49] <penguin42> udisks hand;es things like mounting a usb drive you just plug in
[23:49] <spiritech> it could be done with fstab?
[23:49] <penguin42> fstab can't deal with anything dynamic
[23:50] <spiritech> static stuff tho?
[23:50] <spiritech> liek int hdd
[23:50] <penguin42> oh yeh you can still mount stuff using fstab where ever you like
[23:51] <spiritech> also i have noticed that if i plug in my 16gb corsair usb stick it is assigned sdc1. if i remove it then plug in my corsair 8gb usb stick it is assigned the same device name sdc1. is this normal?
[23:51] <spiritech> so both get assigned /dev/sdc1 when plugged in separately.
[23:52] <spiritech> this is annoying if i want to rsync stuuf on a device level.
[23:52] <penguin42> spiritech: You can never trust the order of /dev/sd*
[23:53] <penguin42> spiritech: things like /dev/disk/by-label and /dev/disk/by-id etc are much safer these days
[23:53] <spiritech> ok. well i use device name at the moment.
[23:54] <penguin42> spiritech: OK, don't blame us when you over write the wrong one!
[23:55] <spiritech> no. i mean the format name.
[23:55] <penguin42> what do you mean by format name?
[23:55] <spiritech> like /media/username/corsair8gb
[23:56] <penguin42> ah right yes, much safer
[23:56] <spiritech> the name you give the device when you format it.
[23:56] <spiritech> i just always wondered if you could do it the /dev/sdc1 way. tho obviously not.
[23:57] <spiritech> i assume the system just gives out the next available reference when a new device is plugged in.
[23:58] <ali1234> it does
[23:58] <spiritech> so sda sdb sdc so on so forth.
[23:58] <ali1234> but /dev/disk/by-id should be a uuid and therefore always unique
[23:58] <spiritech> how do i find the by-id of a device.
[23:58] <spiritech> ?
[23:59] <ali1234> fdisk -l
[23:59] <ali1234> wait, that doesn't work
[23:59] <ali1234> you should find they are symlinks anyway
[23:59] <ali1234> ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid/