[12:40] <mattymo> hggdh, I just wanted to say thanks for adding your bot to our channel and we don't need anything else
[13:47] <hggdh> mattymo: you are welcome
[17:16] <penguin42> jsalisbury: Bug 1241871  it's reported that the upstream now has a fix in it, maybe a candidate for update?
[17:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1241871 in linux (Ubuntu) "8086:0166 [ASUS ZENBOOK UX32VD] 13.10 kernels (3.11.x) Fail to light" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241871
[17:16] <jsalisbury> penguin42, thanks!  I'll take a look
[21:47] <NikTh> Hello, can I ask for an apport-collect command in bugs like this one ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1254867 or because it has not a package assigned apport-collect will not have any effect ?
[21:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1254867 in Ubuntu "Waking from Sleep Makes Some Games Perform Sluggishly" [Undecided,New]
[21:48] <penguin42> I think a bot automatically sets it to incomplete and asks the reporter to pick a package
[21:49] <penguin42> personally I'd guess for Linux and want a set of logs gathered after a resume
[21:51] <NikTh> Thanks penguin42 . As I'm not sure what package is the appropriate one, I will leave it as it is.
[22:15] <TheLordOfTime> what does one do when you can't use `ubuntu-bug` to file a bug about something crashing, because apport itself crashes?
[22:16] <hggdh> TheLordOfTime: first step: cry. 2nd: verify if there is a bug opened against apport on that
[22:16] <TheLordOfTime> hggdh, first step cry?  lol
[22:16] <hggdh> usually, apport -- being THE eror handler -- should not crash
[22:16] <hggdh> so, I would cry first ;-)
[22:16] <TheLordOfTime> hggdh, so if apport is crashing, go curl up in the corner, cry, panic, and then just lay down there and sob until you die?
[22:17] <TheLordOfTime> or, of course, my favorite:
[22:17] <TheLordOfTime> nuke the system with a clean install
[22:17] <hggdh> which will prolly not solve the issue...
[22:17] <TheLordOfTime> well...
[22:17] <hggdh> and I did not say 'curl up & cry', I just said cry. Some 5 seconds is enough
[22:18] <hggdh> how did apport crash? Backtrace available?
[22:18] <TheLordOfTime> no idea
[22:18] <TheLordOfTime> the user who asked it on ask ubuntu's main chat isn/t there
[22:18] <TheLordOfTime> and i have questions for em
[22:18] <hggdh> k. I do remember some issues on apport some time ago, perhaps the user needs to dist-upgrade
[22:19] <TheLordOfTime> hggdh, http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/12337200#12337200 and the next several messages after that are relevant
[22:19] <TheLordOfTime> 13.10 was the offending system
[22:20] <TheLordOfTime> my first quesiton was "Did they in-place upgrade 13.04 to 13.10?"
[22:20] <TheLordOfTime> but of course i'm 8 hours late to the party
[22:21] <hggdh> heh
[22:22] <hggdh> yeah, without knowing how ubuntu-bug crashes, it is difficult to say where is the issue :-(
[22:23] <hggdh> and... who is filemanager?
[22:33] <TheLordOfTime> nfc
[22:35] <hggdh> hum. I cannot even log in to the stackexchange chat...
[22:35] <TheLordOfTime> hggdh, do you have an askubuntu nick?
[22:35] <TheLordOfTime> if so you login to askubuntu first :P
[22:35] <TheLordOfTime> then access the chat
[22:39] <hggdh> I did...
[22:39] <hggdh> bah. I will get thru it later. Try with another browser, etc
[22:41] <TheLordOfTime> mhm
[22:41] <TheLordOfTime> the person who was having the issues isn't around though
[22:41] <hggdh> yeah. Until s/he comes back, hopefully, I will have squared out my issue with login
[22:41] <hggdh> I wonder if 2-factor auth is playing a role
[22:48] <TheLordOfTime> could be
[22:48] <TheLordOfTime> hggdh, you using google to login or something?
[22:48] <TheLordOfTime> because i just use launchpad.net as my openid auth
[22:48] <TheLordOfTime> and it works xD
[22:50] <hggdh> I was also using lp.net. It does not work... So I tried having one tab on lp.net (logged), and one tab on askubuntu (logged). Stil, chat.stackexchange fails
[22:50] <hggdh> checked probably blockage, found I was blocking data from stackauth.com; allowed it, checked OK, tried again -- still fails
[22:51] <hggdh> s/probably/probable/
[22:52] <TheLordOfTime> cache nuke
[22:56] <NikTh>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1254834 , how is this possible ?
[22:56] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1254834 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Can't report bug with apport because /var has no free space" [Undecided,New]
[22:59] <NikTh> The whole root partition is filled up, I guess. /var is under /root. If the user had a separate /var , I guess s/he would know what to do in order to free /var space. ;-)
[23:01] <NikTh> Should I convert it to a question or not ?
[23:03] <hggdh> NikTh: my first feeling is that it should be a question -- be it the same partition (usual) or a different one (rare, user *must* know what is being done), the fact is there is no space...
[23:05] <NikTh> I will convert it to a question then. Thanks hggdh
[23:05] <hggdh> even more given the error message asks for cleaning up space
[23:09] <NikTh> Correct :-)
[23:11] <NikTh> hmm, I have a problem with the RSS feed (Firefox bookmark) right now. It shows only 10 results.
[23:14] <hggdh> NikTh: you mean the Launchpad bugs feed? If so, you can /join #ubuntu-bugs-announce
[23:14] <NikTh> Yes bugs feed I mean. Thanks hggdh
[23:32] <TheLordOfTime> yeah the bugs announce channel is nicer :P
[23:32] <penguin42> latest bugs are always boring
[23:33] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, i have the ones for nginx on highlight
[23:33] <TheLordOfTime> i'm expecting people from Apache to try and change the nginx default docroot
[23:33] <TheLordOfTime> ... which violates Debian policy...
[23:33] <TheLordOfTime> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=730382
[23:33] <ubot2> Debian bug 730382 in nginx "nginx: Please change the default document root to /var/www/html" [Important,Open]
[23:34] <TheLordOfTime> why's it open it should be won'tfix
[23:35] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, apparently, 11.5.4 debian policy states not to use /var/www/html... http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#s-web-appl
[23:35] <TheLordOfTime> i think the apache people are crazy
[23:37] <TheLordOfTime> they tried in Debian, it was rejected by the maintainers.  if they try in Ubuntu i'll slap them quoting the debian bug and debian policy...
[23:37] <TheLordOfTime> hggdh, Ubuntu tries to follow Debian policy as closely as they can, no?
[23:37] <TheLordOfTime> or is there a different policy set in play for packages?
[23:37] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: So where does nginx currently have it's root?
[23:37] <TheLordOfTime> (and how they behave)
[23:37] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, /usr/share/nginx (WHICH IS ACKNOWLEDGED AS WRONG!)
[23:38] <TheLordOfTime> gonna be /usr/share/doc/nginx next upload
[23:38] <TheLordOfTime> (per 11.5.4 http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#s-web-appl )
[23:38] <TheLordOfTime> at least that's what was implied
[23:38] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: What's a bit weird is that's where I'd expect documentation about the package, not the base place it serves it's documents from
[23:38] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, it's debian...
[23:38] <TheLordOfTime> blame them
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> 11.5.4:
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> Web Document Root
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> Web Document Root
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> Web Applications should try to avoid storing files in the Web Document Root. Instead they should use the /usr/share/doc/package directory for documents and register the Web Application via the doc-base package.
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> whoooopsies
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, i blame debian policy, because i'd expect the same you expect.
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> apache is the only webserver that has a requirement use of /var/www/html apparently though
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> and apparently Apache is saying "We're the debian standard, so follow us!'
[23:39] <TheLordOfTime> when they're violating debian policy.
[23:40] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: Are we reading this the right way - does 'Web application' mean a server?  or does it mean a set of things that get served?
[23:40] <TheLordOfTime> 11.5 header penguin42
[23:40] <TheLordOfTime> 11.5 Web servers and applications
[23:40] <TheLordOfTime> This section describes the locations and URLs that should be used by all web servers and web applications in the Debian system.
[23:40] <TheLordOfTime> lrn2read?
[23:40] <penguin42> sigh, ok
[23:40] <TheLordOfTime> (sorry if i come off as an ass, i'm slightly under the weather, it's not intended)
[23:40] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, the one time i get to tell someone from Apache off, though, was quoting the exact policy on the debian bug xD
[23:41] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: The thing is that's also insecure, it means that the default setup is to serve the things including things like changelog etc so you can see package version
[23:41] <TheLordOfTime> (note: Debian BTS and iMail's mail formatting don't play nice)
[23:41] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, true, which was a concern
[23:41] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, however, this could also be fixed by /var/www symlinking to the file source
[23:41] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: And you don't want people screwing around with files in /usr/share/doc which will break next time the package gets updated
[23:41] <TheLordOfTime> but until Debian policy is changed i don't think nginx is going to be changing things
[23:41] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, that's for the default config...
[23:41] <TheLordOfTime> all default configs are designed as examples
[23:42] <TheLordOfTime> not "Serve from here" things
[23:42] <TheLordOfTime> most SANE sysadmins write their own directives and different docroot locations
[23:42]  * TheLordOfTime shrugs
[23:42] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, still, i find it interesting Debian Policy and APache disagree
[23:42] <TheLordOfTime> but i do see your security observation there
[23:43] <TheLordOfTime> (if nginx has an MIR and the security team notices that i may bring it up)
[23:43] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: Yeh I suppose everyone does do their own config - I suppose I was thinking about the simplistic cases
[23:43] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, you mean the people that want everything to "just work"... right?
[23:43] <TheLordOfTime> the people who are ignorant to the intricacies of sysadminning :P
[23:44] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: Yeh, like if you just want a simple little internal webserver - not a full serving critical stuff
[23:44] <TheLordOfTime> mhm
[23:45] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, but there's a difference between "make it work" and sane, IT-security-common-sense configurations
[23:45] <penguin42> yeh
[23:45] <TheLordOfTime> a good sysadmin knows how to configure things.
[23:45] <TheLordOfTime> ... hmmm, do we even have /var/www in a default setup?
[23:45] <penguin42> shrug, don't know
[23:46]  * TheLordOfTime pokes -server because the server team would know
[23:46] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: I'd point it to a subdir of /usr/share/doc/nginx - e.g. /usr/share/doc/nginx/default-doc-root   or something like that
[23:46] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, however nginx does it they'll do it
[23:46] <TheLordOfTime> i think there's suggestion to have an /html folder inside /usr/share/doc/nginx
[23:46] <penguin42> nod
[23:46] <TheLordOfTime> at least, drifting around
[23:46] <penguin42> that would make sense
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> root /usr/share/nginx/html;  <-- default config
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> well...
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> default config as of 1.4.3
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> i haven't packaged 1.4.4 from Debian yet
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> although that would be the same, the change hasn't popped up until after 1.4.4
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> so it'll be in 1.4.4-somenumber or 1.4.5
[23:47]  * TheLordOfTime shrugs
[23:48] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: Do you do things like add selinux rules for it?
[23:48] <TheLordOfTime> I personally don't.
[23:48]  * TheLordOfTime isn't maintainer
[23:48] <TheLordOfTime> that'd have been done by the maintainers before me
[23:48] <TheLordOfTime> if there's SEL rules for it, they're drifting around somewhere, or just not in the debian packages
[23:48] <TheLordOfTime> probably be in the centos repos though
[23:49] <penguin42> sorry, I actually meant apparmour
[23:49] <TheLordOfTime> i don't think there's any rules for that
[23:49] <TheLordOfTime> but i only run basic-needed features, lock down everything else in the nginx config
[23:49]  * TheLordOfTime yawns
[23:49] <TheLordOfTime> bleh coffee time again...
[23:56] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, it shouldn't be too hard to generate an apparmor profile though
[23:56]  * TheLordOfTime shrugs
[23:56] <TheLordOfTime> never tried it, maybe i'll mess with it on my testing system
[23:57] <penguin42> TheLordOfTime: Probably best not to enable by default (because it complicates setup) but might be useful to ship disabled
[23:57] <TheLordOfTime> mhm
[23:57] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, i don't know if there's any default profiles made available, i could find out but i don't see one anywhere
[23:58] <TheLordOfTime> penguin42, remind me where the apparmor profile(s) would exist in a pacage?
[23:58] <TheLordOfTime> package*
[23:58] <TheLordOfTime> woahhhh
[23:58] <TheLordOfTime> one of my EC2s has 150+ updates o.O
[23:58] <TheLordOfTime> i guess unattended-updates isn't doing its job
[23:59] <penguin42> somewhere under /etc/apparmor.d I think
[23:59] <TheLordOfTime> WORK YOU STUPID PIECE OF...
[23:59]  * TheLordOfTime grumbles at his ec2
[23:59] <TheLordOfTime> it's hung up on downloading a bzip2 index with apt >.>