=== duflu_ is now known as duflu [03:36] hi guys i need some help [03:36] I was just at the ubuntu help channel but ir seems they ran out of ideas so can i pop a question === philipballew is now known as philip [05:57] Good morning [08:51] pas les gens ici aujourd'hui :( [08:51] non, personne [08:51] ces slackers! [08:51] * pitti donne une accolade à didrocks, bonjour ! [08:52] * didrocks donne une accolade en retour à pitti :) [08:52] ah, speaking of slackers, hey seb128! [08:52] * seb128 yawns, where is my coffee? [08:52] didrocks, hey [08:52] ;) [08:53] seb128: sorry to bother you before your coffee, but will you be upset if we disable use-conn by default for now? [08:53] (as it was before you update it) [08:53] there are two mission-control bugs: [08:53] what is use-conn? [08:53] bonjour seb128 [08:53] what is "it"? [08:53] seb128: it == mission-control [08:53] what's the issue? [08:54] see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-ofono/+bug/1252737 [08:54] Launchpad bug 1252737 in telepathy-ofono (Ubuntu) "[regression] Ubuntu touch cannot get GSM signal if not joined to a WLAN network" [Critical,Confirmed] [08:54] basically, it seems to be linked to this use-conn gsettings key set to true (it was set to false because) [08:54] but even if you set it to false, it works on the current session [08:54] but if you reboot, the settings change isn't picked [08:54] (another bug referenced in the bug) [08:55] so I did a dummy patch for now and plan to get it tested/upload it: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157638155/telepathy-mission-control-5_1%3A5.16.0-1ubuntu1_1%3A5.16.0-1ubuntu2~ppa1.diff.gz [08:55] do you agree with this? ^ (take some minutes to catchup) [08:56] didrocks, do whatever change you need, at the condition that you open upstream bug reports for your issues [08:56] that change seems fine to me [08:57] seb128: yeah, there is one for not picking the key, on the other one, I need to dive more with phonefundations first [08:57] so that we know about the direct cause->consequence [08:57] seb128: thanks! :) [08:58] yw, sorry that the update created issues [08:58] seb128: well, TBH, very very hard to get [08:58] btw if you need help the #telepathy guys are nice [08:58] seb128: but it will be nice to have an integration test for that [08:58] right [08:58] seb128: yeah, I tried to ping cassidy, but I guess he's sleeping still :) [08:59] smcv is the main is the main maintainer for that code I think [08:59] he's the one who did what looks like the recent changes [08:59] e.g http://cgit.freedesktop.org/telepathy/telepathy-mission-control/commit/?id=e6974e3dac274982dedcb5451106473dea3294fd [08:59] though cassidy reviewed it [09:00] yeah [09:00] hence the ping, better when you know people [09:00] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72003 [09:00] Freedesktop bug 72003 in mission-control "use-conn setting not working correctly" [Normal,New] [09:00] I guess that's the bug you were refering to earlier? [09:01] gooood morning [09:02] Laney, good morning! how are you? [09:02] seb128: right [09:02] that's only the second part of it [09:03] as the first is to understand why use-conn = true prevents GSM being on [09:03] seb128: chilly but good thanks [09:03] you? [09:03] same [09:03] it has been freezing this night [09:06] la première neige ici [09:06] yeah I was out on my bike last night [09:06] brrr [09:06] Laney: me too; full winter equipment now :( [09:06] thick gloves, cap, scarf, and an extra pullover [09:08] got some overshoes for the first time this year, they are quite helpful [09:18] seb128: oh, in case you didn't notice, indicators are in [09:18] thanks to cyphermox :) [09:18] didrocks, yeah, I noticed, thanks ;-) [09:18] seems like the e-d-s/samba/libav transition is still in proposed though [09:19] yeah [09:30] seb128: you could process https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kmediafactory/+bug/1254011 to help that [09:30] Launchpad bug 1254011 in libomxil-components (Ubuntu) "remove from ubuntu archive - never in debian, no upstream ports to libav9 / dead upstream" [Undecided,Confirmed] [09:31] ;-) [09:35] Laney, xnox: done [09:37] thanks \o/ [09:39] :D [09:48] Laney, hey [09:49] is the gjs with autopkg tests SRU'able to saucy? [09:50] probably not worth it [09:50] I don't think they're run [09:52] Laney, saucy never got the final release of gjs] [09:53] so there are a bunch of bug fixes in there as well [09:53] oh something other than the tests [09:53] I see, then it should be doable [09:54] Laney, right, but should I just leave the tests in there, or strip them out? [09:54] I think the SRU team would probably prefer it to be minimal [09:54] so just the upstream bump and packaging changes needed for that [09:54] ok [10:03] Laney, xnox: so, what's missing now in the transition? e.g why are evolution-mapi and tb on the unhappy list? [10:03] pitti: any connection possibly with "./configure: line 1951: config.log: Permission denied" and not yet having the 2.5.1 autopkgtest release fix? http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/trusty-adt-dbus-test-runner/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/6/console [10:03] psivaa: ^ [10:03] Mirv: yes, ignore it please [10:03] Mirv: I'll retry the three recently failed tests as soon as autopkgtest 2.5.1 is in [10:03] seb128: the security update of thunderbird got copied up, which did an override of my "| new-abi" package dep. [10:03] pitti: ok, thanks! [10:03] Mirv: thanks [10:03] xnox, :-( [10:04] I don't think mapi is unhappy, but tb lost the change [10:04] Laney, why is mapi listed then? [10:04] but the change wasn't right anyway, so it's not so bad :-) [10:04] psivaa: ^ I'm on it, autopkgtest bug [10:04] * seb128 is never going to understand the output page [10:04] it is [10:04] look at Trying easy from autohinter: libebml/1.3.0-2 … [10:04] pitti: ack. thank you. [10:05] pitti: do you have a bug number for that? [10:05] I only see: fgrun, mytharchive, mythplugins, octave-psychtoolbox-3, psychtoolbox-3-dbg, samba4, samba4-clients, samba4-common-bin, samba4-testsuite, thunderbird-gnome-support, thunderbird-gnome-support-dbg, thunderbird-testsuite, winbind4 [10:05] which is [10:05] .. [10:05] psivaa: I didn't file one, not sure if someone else did [10:05] fgrun, mytv, psychtoolbox-3, samba4, thunderbird [10:05] psivaa: but I'm subscribed to autopkgtest bugs and there was none [10:06] pitti: ok, just wanted to know, if you are actively looking into this already that's fine by me [10:06] psivaa: yes, fix is uploaded, just waiting for the archive grinders now [10:06] psivaa: and I'll restart the tests which failed to that as soon as that happened [10:06] failed "due" to that [10:06] pitti: great. thank you :) [10:32] xnox: have you looked into any of those (the first three)? [10:35] Laney: myth -> ftbfs, needs "porting" from ffmpeg -> either internal "mythffmepg" or to avconv from libav-tools package. [10:35] Laney: the ftbfs, made fixing hard. [10:35] you mean it ftbfs even without the transition? [10:35] Laney: yes. ftbfs in trusty-release. [10:36] (errors at configure step =/ ) [10:36] bah [10:36] told superm1? [10:36] Laney: psychtoolbox-3 wants to start libglew transition, which I'd rather avoid. [10:36] Laney: but i couldn't figure out the route cause why it becomes uninstallable. [10:37] (the version that is in -proposed that is) [10:37] Laney: fgrun - no idea / can't remember. [10:37] Laney: no, i haven't contacted superm1 about it. [10:40] might be worth it, maybe a new snapshot helps at least the ftbfs [10:43] * Laney looks at fgrun [10:45] you guys look at the remaining items in that transition? can I help on anything? [10:45] chrisccoulson, hey, how are you? [10:45] chrisccoulson, did you look at how easy it would be to make tb work with the new eds in trusty? [10:46] I tried to build the psychtoolbox-3 that's in trusty-release and it also fails [10:47] seb128, not yet. i've not had any time just yet [10:48] chrisccoulson, it's one of the few remaining blockers for the e-d-s samba openchanges transition, that's blocking quite a part of the archive in trusty-proposed :/ [10:48] chrisccoulson, when do you think you are going to have time for it? [10:48] seb128, will have a quick look this afternoon [10:48] chrisccoulson, thanks [10:49] chrisccoulson, should we just turn off that code temporary otherwise? [10:49] seb128, that's probably what i will end up doing ;) [10:50] fgrun works with the patch from the Debian bug [10:51] oh, haha, that's not even libav - it's yet another transition [10:51] entanglement is no fun [10:53] might as well NMU that [11:06] Wellark, do you plan for indicator-network to ship in Ubuntu for PC in 14.04? [11:10] mpt, dunno what he plans, but Ubuntu Desktop doesn't plan to take it in the desktop edition [11:11] ok [11:12] mpt, it's too new/not tested enough/lacking "enterprise features" [11:12] blerg, getting bogged down in transition details in debian [11:12] * Laney just uploads to trusty [11:42] sil2100, hey [11:56] mpt: indicator-network will not ship by default on the desktop [11:56] Wellark, 14.10? [12:03] mpt: 14.10 is so far away [12:03] who knows ;) [12:03] seb128: hi! [12:04] seb128: any issues with the package? [12:04] (I assume yes ;) ) [12:04] mpt: but sure. let's aim for indicator-network to be the default for 14.10 and onwards [12:04] sil2100, yes, why is it named "unity-scopes" when the Vcs is "unity-scopes-api" [12:04] sil2100, the source package I mean [12:04] ok [12:04] fully converged [12:04] Oooh, ok, that's a bug [12:05] sil2100, didn't we say upstream sources and Ubuntu package names need to be identical? [12:05] seb128: I'll rename it to unity-scopes-api [12:05] sil2100, thanks [12:05] sil2100, otherwise it looks good (packaging, licenses, etc) [12:05] sil2100, good work ;-) [12:06] Thank you! Soon maybe I'll be able to do a packaging review without leaving out any of the important parts ;p [12:10] sil2100, your packages are mostly good nowadays, that one is not even a blocker for the archive ... it's just a naming inconsistency, which is probably good to resolve before upload [12:12] well, cu2d won't like it otherwise :) === MacSlow_ is now known as MacSlow|lunch === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [13:01] seb128: do you think we can remove psychtoolbox-3 from proposed so I can upload an older version? [13:02] I got one based on trusty-release which builds === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [13:16] Laney, (back from lunch) Does that work with launchpad, publishing an older version in proposed? [13:16] yeah [13:17] ok, let me remove the current one then [13:17] means we won't be able to have the same version again though [13:17] so can't sync it in the future [13:17] not a big issue imo [13:17] indeed not [13:17] why is the new version problematic? [13:17] glew transition [13:17] requires one [13:17] oh, yet another transition [13:17] great :p [13:18] yeah, leave that one for later ... === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow === ara is now known as Guest1754 [13:20] Laney, done [13:21] great, ty [13:21] yw! === ara_ is now known as ara === ara is now known as Guest55288 === Guest55288 is now known as ara_ [13:50] xnox: regarding tbird: oh, crud, that was me. are you fixing it? if not, let me [13:51] jdstrand: it needs porting, the previous fix was incomplete [13:51] er [13:51] f [13:52] chris was going to have a look this afternoon [13:52] Laney: does that mean it was actually broken before still? [13:52] good morning! [13:52] I didn't try it, but seems likely you'd have had errors at runtime [13:52] ie, 1:24.0+build1-0ubuntu2 was busted [13:52] ok [13:52] seb128: sanity check. how long until meeting? [13:52] 97 [13:53] well, I guess you could say I pointed a spotlight at it :) [13:53] desrt, hey, 1h38 [13:53] !! [13:53] desrt: date -u ;) [13:53] yeah, go grab an extra 90 minutes of sleep [13:53] nah. i have to drive to hamilton. better drive fast :) [13:54] wtf [13:55] mythtv configure fails. Go into the chroot and run the same command. mythtv configure passes. [13:57] jdstrand: don't worry about it. thunderbird does work in trusty, it's borked in trusty-proposed as all things in trusty-proposed should =) [13:57] =) [14:00] ok, good === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [14:24] shotwell migrated their bugs to b.g.o [14:25] one nice side effect is that we are going to be able to watch upstream bug from launchpad, since bugzilla is supported where redmine was not [14:26] the way they did the import sucks though, they shuffled all comments/history in one chunk of text without formatting, which is really not nice to read :/ [14:27] e.g https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719240 [14:27] Gnome bug 719240 in ux "Publishing dialog can be minimized in Unity" [Normal,New] === mjohnson15_2 is now known as mjohnson15 [15:01] tjaalton, mlankhorst, xorg guys: can you review the xserver-xorg-video-* sync requests in the sponsoring queue and ack/nack those? [15:01] syncpackage them if acked btw [15:01] thanks === ara_ is now known as ara [15:10] seb128: I want to wait with syncing until we decide on xorg1.15 or not [15:10] but meh fine lets sync [15:10] mlankhorst, why? we can do no changes rebuilds for those 10 sources if needed [15:10] syncpackage has an option for sponsnoring [15:10] * mlankhorst can always add a buildXXX for a rebuild [15:10] right [15:10] don't forget to use it! [15:11] -b -s [15:11] use that [15:11] mlankhorst, ^ [15:12] fine i'll look :P [15:12] thanks [15:13] xnox: got mythtv to build (ccache fail), now to look for a libav patch I guess ... [15:15] Laney: i think they recommend to use "mythffmpeg", if normal "ffmpeg" binary is not available. But I see plenty of places only looking up "ffmpeg" and not falling back to "mythffmpeg" / "avconv". [15:20] xnox: only the mytharchive plugin has a dependency on ffmpeg [15:20] AFAICS [15:21] correct. [15:22] where do you see a problem? [15:26] kenvandine: ping! [15:27] kenvandine: can you take a look https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/enable_unity-scopes-api/+merge/196729 ? [15:27] sil2100, sure [15:27] kenvandine: thanks! [15:28] Laney: well $ grep -e '"ffmpeg"' -e "'ffmpeg'" -r . bring up plenty of results, most are false positivies, but some are real. The mytharchive itself, seems to use mythffmpeg, so the dependency is errours? [15:28] dist-upgrade from today on trusty and I lost my desk top [15:28] can somebody help me? typing from phone not convenient [15:28] Kaleo, what happens? [15:28] xnox: I didn't look elsewhere in the code :P [15:28] Kaleo, is guest session working? [15:29] lightdm starts [15:29] Laney: but e.g. the sql dump (wherever that is used) brings up at least: MythArchiveFfmpegCmd 'ffmpeg' [15:29] shows normal screen for split second [15:29] then black screen with a dialogue [15:29] Laney: which suggests to me that actually it's configured at the moment to use ffmpeg instead of mythffmpeg. [15:29] Kaleo, what is the dialog saying? [15:29] "running in low graphics mode" [15:29] then I click ok [15:30] Laney: to be honest, I'd drop the dependancy & open a critical bug saying that "if one is using ffmpeg, they should be somehow migrated off it" and to "avconv" or "mythffmpeg" [15:30] Kaleo, what video card/driver do you use? [15:30] 15:30 UTC. Meeting? [15:30] xnox: Will look a bit more after $meeting [15:30] then ubresponsive dialogue with 4 choices [15:30] qengho, yes [15:30] I'm on Intel GPU [15:30] Laney: cause who knowns where/what implies if codec == 'ffmpeg' exec(codec) [15:30] Kaleo, my guess is that you install libhybris or something when testing some touch stuff [15:31] Kaleo, which is diverting libgl or such [15:31] there's loads of random perl scripts that look like they run ffmpeg and so on [15:31] bah [15:31] Kaleo, I am on trusty, today's update [15:31] qengho, Sweetsha1k, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter_, desrt, attente, larsu: hey, it's meeting time [15:31] seb128: let me check [15:31] Kaleo, check /var/log/dpkg.log for new packages installed [15:32] MEETING [15:32] !! [15:32] desrt, heh, you made it! [15:32] let's get started ;-) [15:32] qengho, hey [15:32] seb128: with lots of time to spare :) [15:32] Hey guys. [15:32] * UDS last week. Interest: 1) Webapps. 2) Privacy. [15:32] * Prepared new release of chromium-browser for #security. Testing. [15:32] * To do: enforce apparmor on the SUID part of chromium. Kind of scary. [15:32] EOF [15:34] sponsoring done, enjoy the non-updates :P [15:34] qengho, thanks [15:34] Sweetsha1k, hey [15:35] no Sweetsha1k? [15:35] mlankhorst, hey [15:35] UDS, reviewing kernel drm code, sru verification, preparing mesa 10 for debian-experimental and ubuntu (grab it now at ppa:canonical-x/x-staging only required a workaround for a single armhf linker bug!!! :D) [15:36] and some sponsoring ;) [15:36] mlankhorst, thanks [15:37] Laney, hey [15:37] HELLO! [15:37] • vUDS [15:37] • Wrangling e-d-s/evolution transition [15:37] ∘ Still looking into mythtv [15:37] • Quite a few merges [15:37] • A tough time with webkitgtk. arm64 still sad. Need porterbox please :( [15:37] • Couple of small u-s-s merges [15:37] ∘ Show regulatory-info if there's a plugin available [15:37] ∘ Fix for some build system / lintian issues [15:37] ∘ Start looking into charge graph & learning canvas API. There's a resizing bug (rotate your phone to see it) & another problem where if you start u-s-s straight into the battery panel the graph is messed up / doesn't appear... [15:37] • Submit AS patches upstream [15:37] • GStreamer point release updates [15:37] EOF [15:38] Laney, what AS patches? [15:38] overrides for vendor extensions [15:38] * desrt raises an eyebrow [15:38] AS? [15:38] AS! [15:38] AS.... [15:38] AS in... [15:39] anyway... [15:39] :) [15:39] seb128: that was not the issue; btw sent you pic by email [15:39] * desrt . o O ( one day, i will find out what AS means... ) [15:39] Laney, I guess I didn't follow that work [15:39] desrt, accountsservice [15:39] ahhh [15:39] of course. thanks :) [15:39] I talked about it with some people in oak [15:39] oh haha, I thought you were joking [15:40] Laney: link me up to those patches. i'll take a look to see if i can help. [15:40] think you were subscribed to the bug [15:40] * desrt didn't see anything [15:40] okies [15:41] Laney, I'm interested by the bug number as well, just to know what we are talking about [15:41] I followed the vendor work [15:41] but not what we need overrides for [15:41] * desrt is slightly suspicious [15:41] Kind of the same as gsettings overrides [15:42] i have a feeling that vendor overrides to vendor extensions may not be popular with upstream :) [15:42] If we're shoving more and more stuff into AS then it probably will be useful at some point [15:42] some OEM team person was going on about it, forgot who [15:42] and yeah, Stef sounded suspicious [15:42] Laney: iirc, the way i wrote the accountsservice patch is that it will throw an exception if you don't declare a default value on a property and it's not set, right? [15:43] not sure [15:43] maybe it would be better just to let apps that i want to have the possibility of overrides grab the exception and implement their own mechanism [15:43] Laney: i can't imagine i did it any other way... all of the other options would have upset me too much :p [15:44] I mean that I didn't check :-) [15:44] * desrt will take a look at the bug if you send a link along [15:44] It does what you'd expect, but probably with some shitty code and bugs: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71393 [15:44] Freedesktop bug 71393 in general "Overrides for vendor extensions" [Normal,Needinfo] [15:45] * desrt pictures stefw "...this is what happens when you say yes..." [15:45] ok, let's discuss specific details after the meeting if needed [15:45] might want to move on with the meeting [15:45] :P [15:45] Laney, thanks [15:45] desrt, thanks as well [15:45] (btw that shows that meetings are useful ;-) [15:46] tkamppeter_, hey [15:46] yup [15:46] seb128: we already know this meeting is useful ;) [15:46] yeah it stops me having cocktails by the pool for 30 minutes [15:47] lol [15:47] no tkamppeter_? [15:47] desrt, your turn then ;-) [15:47] sweet [15:47] going back two weeks, lots of glib bug fixing [15:47] including finally slaying that ppc test failure issue [15:47] turned out to be a bug in valgrind [15:48] we have a patch to work around that that the debian guys are applying.... i don't want to merge it upstream because it would diverge our copy of valgrind.h from the upstream version... so there is a valgrind bug open which is mostly being ignored, meanwhile :/ [15:48] glib build-depends on valgrind? [15:48] it has an in-tree copy of valgrind.h [15:48] and this file contains a bug on ppc [15:49] basically, valgrind has these macros to detect if valgrind is running [15:49] I see [15:49] that emit magic sequences of machine instructions that would never otherwise be emitted by the compiler [15:49] "never" [15:49] that valgrind can notice and say "ah! you must want to talk to me..." [15:49] anyway... those instructions are _supposed_ to be no-ops when valgrind isn't running [15:49] but the asm sequence on PPC clobbers the r0 register [15:50] which can lead to all kinds of problems if r0 was being used to store something important.... like pointers to memory in the slice allocator... [15:50] "fun" [15:50] ya.. [15:50] real party time [15:50] case closed in any case, just have to wait to see what happens upstream [15:51] this week i got a request from the phone guys to improve the story of overrides (noticing a theme here?) [15:51] they want to use dconf for vendors to do lockdown and such.... i'm about to give up and just support that [15:51] but i want to do it properly: overrides in the xdg data dirs, etc. plus better tools to support compiling databases to install there [15:52] cool [15:52] as a bit of a side-track when working on that stuff i've been improving test coverage in dconf and generally improving the tools... [15:52] including adding support that when you give a bad value with gvariant, you get nicer output [15:52] [1, 2, 'str'] [15:52] ^ ^^^^^ like this [15:52] and then you abort() [15:52] so i did patches for that for gdbus, gsettings, dconf, gapplication commandline tools [15:53] larsu: not on invalid input to commandline tools.... exit(1) is enough :) [15:53] lol [15:53] :) [15:53] anyway... that's all [15:53] desrt, thanks [15:53] attente, hey [15:53] seb128, hey [15:53] the past 2 weeks: UDS, IM/keyboard layouts planning, small fixes to i-kb, u-g-m, themes, refactoring the u-s-s language panel code, trying to get the modifier-only input switching ppa merged upstream, starting with compiz [15:54] currently trying to debug a u-g-m crash [15:55] attente: as always, let me know if you need help with that [15:55] larsu, you really don't like overlay-scrollbars, don't you :P [15:56] attente: (a) no; (b) I think I'm done with that; (c) just trying to be nice ;) [15:56] haha [15:56] oh I forgot: (d) really, no! [15:57] attente, thanks ;-) [15:57] larsu, your turn [15:57] seb128: ok [15:57] I actually wasn't terribly productive this last week [15:57] being kind of stuck on the overlay-scrollbar issue [15:57] which is done as of today [15:58] (I think) [15:58] death to overlay scrollbars!! [15:58] \o/ [15:58] also did a few minor changes to the 3.10 update [15:58] you manage to get those working as before? [15:58] yay ! [15:58] or did you have to drop animations and stuff on the way? [15:58] and a couple of bug fixes in appmenu/messages that people pinged me about [15:58] seb128: no, works as before [15:58] long live overlay scrollbars!! [15:59] larsu, you are a rockstar [15:59] I tried to find the most minimally-intrusive solution [15:59] and it's a very small patch now [15:59] oh, nice [15:59] which makes me happy (because I probably didn't break that much( [15:59] seb128: well, let's wait... [15:59] desrt: bah [15:59] * desrt watches larsu minimise his liabilities under the international 'touched it last' convention [16:00] yep, just trying to keep bzr blame | grep larsu | wc -l as small as possible [16:00] :) [16:00] larsu, let me know when you have things to test [16:00] larsu: does that mean we're more or less unblocked on gtk 3.10? [16:00] seb128: I'll upload it after the indicator meeting (which starts now) [16:00] desrt: yes [16:00] nice [16:00] desrt: well, there's that install issue on a pbuilder iirc [16:00] time to start bothering laney about the new glib, then :) [16:01] larsu, thanks [16:01] great news [16:01] which (as i mentioned to him privately) is going to be needed for the dconf stuff (along with new dconf) for the features the phone guys want [16:01] ok, so my turn [16:01] * vUDS (hosting a track sucks, lot of "being around for session even if not participating to the discussion") [16:01] * some desktop merges, updates and bug fixes [16:01] * e.u.c triaging/pinging people/opening bugs [16:01] * some more thinking/discussions about keyboards/ibus/fcitx [16:01] * helped testing new e-d-s and uoa, upstreamed calendar bug, backported upstream fix for it [16:01] * some reports/discussions about having traditional menubars for GNOME apps under Unity [16:01] * some u-d-s reviews [16:02] desrt: have a look at the testsuit/gtk/Makefile.am if you get some time. I think its wrong but didn't have time to investigate yet [16:02] * bug triage/trying to find issues we need to solve for the LTS [16:02] [16:02] * poking chrisccoulson about thunderbird [16:02] ;) [16:02] chrisccoulson, how is that going btw? ;-) [16:02] chrisccoulson: nice to have you around these parts a bit more lately :) [16:02] heh :) [16:02] s/u-d-s/u-s-s/? [16:02] seb128, going to look shortly ;) [16:02] seb128: ARGH we're reverting to traditional menu bars on GNOME apps? [16:02] which means... all apps [16:03] oh. i wrote a wiki page about that [16:03] http://wiki.gnome.org/HowDoI/FallbackMenubar has some initial ideas for how this can work [16:03] larsu, "all" being like 5 apps we get from GNOME ? [16:03] https://wiki.gnome.org/HowDoI/AlternateMenubarLayout rather [16:03] seb128: only gnome apps have overlay scrollbars, no? [16:03] Laney, yes, u-s-s [16:03] oh, you mean the gnome 3 apps? [16:04] larsu, well, what we discuss in Oakland [16:04] * desrt coughs [16:04] larsu, having traditional menus for e.g evince [16:04] gnome-calculator file-roller rhythmbox are on that list [16:04] seb128: how far did you get with the calculator? [16:04] and did you break it for gnome-shell in the process? [16:04] desrt, I've a patch on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712831 [16:04] Gnome bug 712831 in general "Should have a standard menubar for non GNOME3 environments" [Normal,Unconfirmed] [16:05] desrt, https://bug712831.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=260467 [16:05] desrt, and not that I know [16:05] desrt, I did what gedit does [16:05] cool [16:05] check the xsetting [16:05] cheers to gedit devs for being awesome [16:05] and display the menubar or the appmenu in function [16:05] seb128: right, ignore me. Apparently I can't listen to the indicator meeting and follow this discussion. Sorry! [16:05] the upstream bug turned into a flameware/argument though [16:06] oh. people in this bug already discuss my proposal [16:06] yeah [16:06] maybe i should put some text on the page making it more clear that this is only a proposal [16:06] it has been turning into a flameware about GNOME design direction and other desktops [16:06] lovely [16:06] * desrt loves accidentally starting flamewars [16:07] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=705909 also [16:07] Gnome bug 705909 in general "Add headerbar and set that as titlebar" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] [16:07] just for the record, that's how gnome-calculator "new design" looks like under xfce [16:07] https://bug705909.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=261416 [16:07] wm bar, gtkheaderbar, appmenu fallback [16:08] anyway, fun discussions yesterday [16:08] on that note, we overrun our half a bit [16:08] is there any other question/comments/...? [16:09] seems not [16:09] thanks everyone [16:09] seb128: thanks [16:09] * desrt adds admonition to the top of his wiki page [16:09] ta [16:10] desrt, what is the bit about death to overlay scrollbar ? [16:10] ritz: nothing, unfortunately [16:11] larsu was having great difficulty upgrading it to work with gtk 3.10 [16:11] so we thought that maybe we would just drop it [16:11] but then he made it owrk [16:11] so it stays [16:11] oh, thanks :( [16:11] ritz: you can always just uninstall it..... [16:11] or change the gsettings key to disable them [16:11] it is nice for touch screen laptop [16:12] on my backup system, which is not touchscreen [16:12] seb128, thanks :) [16:13] yw [16:13] ritz, btw, can you verify the GTK sure in saucy, that's your fix for the folder name ellipsizing [16:13] * ritz check [16:21] seb128, has been pushed into saucy [16:22] ritz, you mean? the SRU is in saucy-proposed and needs to be verified to move to updates [16:23] I am an idiot [16:34] bah, lightdm hates me [16:35] (I was trying to run unity-greeter under valgrind for bug #1255076, but I don't get the bug here so it makes it less useful) [16:35] Launchpad bug 1255076 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "/usr/sbin/unity-greeter:*** Error in `/usr/sbin/unity-greeter': free(): invalid pointer: ADDR ***" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255076 [16:35] did anyone had his greeter not starting/starting in low graphics mode in trusty? [16:35] (out of Kaleo) [16:35] mterry, hey, you don't know about ^ by any chance? [16:42] ok, I'm away for some debugging again and some errands, back in 1h or so [17:03] chrisccoulson: what's the right branch for firefox packaging MPs? [17:03] to get into trusty [17:04] firefox-beta.trusty or lp:firefox? [17:04] Laney, yeah, lp:firefox [17:04] ok [17:28] Laney, oh, that breaks installability for < 14.04, doesn't it? [17:32] chrisccoulson: for zenhei, yeah [17:32] ukai had that package in precise [17:40] anybody working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/1255076 right now? [17:40] Launchpad bug 1255076 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "/usr/sbin/unity-greeter:*** Error in `/usr/sbin/unity-greeter': free(): invalid pointer: ADDR ***" [High,Confirmed] === greyback is now known as greyback|away [17:52] seb128, I found it [17:52] seb128, sudo apt-get remove --purge indicator-datetime [17:53] seb128, fixes it :) [17:53] Kaleo, indicator issue? [17:53] Kaleo, haha, I hinted that it might be on the bug :p [17:53] Kaleo, did you read that? [17:53] so we have an issue than the greeter doesn't deal with buggy indicators [17:53] seb128, yes, that's why I started testing [17:53] and one that the indicator is buggy [17:53] seb128, removing indicators [17:53] Kaleo, thanks for nailing it down [17:53] charles_, larsu: ^ [17:54] seb128: let's review what attente and I wrote yesterday? [17:55] seb128: I'll have a look [17:56] seb128: I've pushed a couple of changes into my 3.10 branch (not all issues fixed yet, though) and the overlay-scrollbar ones as well: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/overlay-scrollbar/fix-for-3.10 [17:56] seb128, you poked me about a unity-greeter crash earlier? sorry I was afk [17:56] seb128: nice and small :) [17:56] larsu, thanks [17:57] larsu, mterry: basically it seems that https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/13.10.0+14.04.20131125-0ubuntu1 has a bug and being buggy takes the greeter down with it [17:57] larsu, mterry: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1255076 is the greeter error, seems an invalid free call [17:57] Launchpad bug 1255076 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "/usr/sbin/unity-greeter:*** Error in `/usr/sbin/unity-greeter': free(): invalid pointer: ADDR ***" [High,Confirmed] [17:57] seb128: no backtrace though? [17:58] happyaron, sure, give me a few minutes to catch up with pings and stuff ... can you give me the url? [17:58] Kaleo, did you get infos on the datetime issue? is the indicator segfaulting/triggering an apport report? [17:58] seb128, not really no [17:58] seb128, just trying to get back to my work :) [17:58] Kaleo, ok, don't worry [17:58] seb128: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1TLj9I9DWFK7zwbI_veIt_RA5YX76e1k-ORgzVwkBL5U/edit?usp=sharing === alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD [17:59] Kaleo, that's what you get for running proposed btw :p [17:59] attente: around? [17:59] seb128, tssss [17:59] seb128, people uploading without testing? [17:59] seb128, you mean? :) [17:59] Kaleo, but thanks for taking the bullet for the team ;-) [17:59] happyaron, yep, i'm here [18:02] larsu, no bt that I can tell, can you sanity check the recent changes to the indicator in case you see an issue in there? [18:03] mterry, did you manage to reproduce the bug? [18:03] or just happening to timeout? [18:03] seb128, just timing out :) [18:03] :-( [18:03] seb128, I haven't looked at the bug yet, been busy [18:03] k, no worry [18:03] seb128, I can look at it shortly [18:03] mterry, yeah, no hurry (yet) [18:04] that version of the indicator is stucked in proposed with the e-d-s samba libav transitions atm [18:04] we aim at unblocking those soon but I doubt it's going to happen today, we are going to need at least a tb upload before that happens [18:05] chrisccoulson keeps saying he's going to look at it and he would say that if he was not going to do it [18:05] chrisccoulson, right? ;-) [18:05] seb128: sure [18:05] hahaha [18:05] I like this strategy of getting someone to do work [18:05] Laney, shush, don't ruin my subtle move :p [18:05] I was afraid someone didn't notice :P [18:05] it was so discreet after all [18:06] lol [18:06] ok, let me try to reproduce that greeter issue (assuming lightdm 1.9 stops screwing user switching for me) [18:07] great [18:07] it's easy to reproduce [18:07] seb128: I have a candidate of where it might be. Do you have a bt for me? [18:08] larsu, going to in a minute, let me get the dbgsym and unpack the apport info [18:09] thanks, that way I don't have to :) [18:09] larsu, mterry: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6480184/ [18:11] seb128: ah, that's the memory leak fix I did [18:11] let's just revert that! [18:12] larsu, wfm, can you proposed the revert and I can test the fix/confirm it's resolving it? [18:12] -d [18:12] seb128: I'm kidding [18:13] you don't want _that_ bug again [18:13] ? [18:13] larsu, you lost me :p I though maybe you had a buggy fix over-freeing things ;-) [18:14] seb128: heh, no. It's because of the fix I did for the u-p-s leaking all the memory when using the gimp [18:14] now that we're freeing the widget, something inside the widget gets freed twice [18:14] or something uninitialized gets passed into free() [18:15] either way, I'm on it [18:15] thanks for the bt [18:15] oh, ok, I see ... I was going to say, the GTK fix was not buggy (at least we SRUed and didn't get new reports) [18:15] larsu, thanks [18:15] and please test your stuff. [18:16] larsu, btw that's what happens when you run indicators in process and not through u-p-s :p [18:16] larsu, an indicator gets a bug and your greeter is down letting you with no system [18:17] seb128: I'm fairly sure that this is a bug in the widget, not in the indicator [18:18] larsu, well, same difference... [18:18] ha [18:18] larsu, btw, scrollbars work great \o/ [18:18] :) [18:18] nice job! [18:18] thanks [18:19] seb128, I got disconnected again! Did you see my question / comment about datetime? [18:19] mterry, no [18:20] seb128, did anything precede this? [18:20] seb128, looks like a bug in the indicator code [18:20] seb128, datetime [18:20] mterry, right, unping, it's a segfault in the indicator, but since those are loading in process in u-g (e.g we don't have unity-panel-service protecting it) it's taking the greeter down with it [18:21] seb128, I hate my irc connection, I miss all the fun stuff [18:21] Laney: can you have a look at bug 1173571 again? it needs someone to make the change into trusty seeds. [18:21] Launchpad bug 1173571 in Ubuntu Seeds "please change wenquanyi micro hei back with 69-language-selector-zh-tw.conf" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173571 [18:21] mterry, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/1255076/comments/6 [18:21] Launchpad bug 1255076 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "/usr/sbin/unity-greeter:*** Error in `/usr/sbin/unity-greeter': free(): invalid pointer: ADDR ***" [High,Confirmed] [18:21] mterry, that's the bt [18:21] mterry: I'm on it, though ;) [18:22] yay for larsu! [18:22] ;-) [18:22] happyaron, attente: sorry, I had to deal with the trusty unity-greeter stuff, looking at the ibus/fcitx summary now [18:23] np, :) [18:23] mterry: what would need to be done on getting fonts-droid's MIR complete? [18:23] sorry, fonts-android [18:23] happyaron, can you give me permission to comment on the document? [18:23] happyaron, it needs to be seeded [18:24] happyaron, the MIR is done. It just needs to actually be added to Ubuntu now [18:24] seb128: shared again, attente gave edit permission to your @ubuntu.com address yesterday. [18:24] is editing not enough for commenting? [18:24] mterry: I see, thanks. [18:25] happyaron, I think there was a seed change proposal filed. It just hasn't been reviewed/approved yet [18:25] attente: perhaps he doesn't have @ubuntu.com address connected to google? [18:25] attente, I guess it is, I don't have an account @ubuntu.com though, mine is a canonical one ... that's confusing with google drive, not sure why it lists one that is not valid [18:25] happyaron, ^ [18:25] mterry: yup, that's what I pinged Laney for [18:25] seb128, you should be able to edit with your canonical one too [18:26] attente, it's working now [18:30] attente, happyaron: comment spamming you guys :p [18:38] :) [18:38] attente, happyaron: done with my first reading/comments spam :p [18:39] thanks seb128 [18:41] seb128: commenting back, :) [18:41] seb128: how do you reproduce this problem? Does it crash right at the start? [18:41] happyaron, I see, it's almost as fun as IRC :p [18:42] larsu, yes, I reproduced by trying to switch user, Kaleo gets it on boot [18:44] larsu, just upgrade to trusty-proposed :) [18:54] happyaron, attente: if I want to test fcitx, what binaries should I install? [18:54] seb128: apt-get install fcitx fcitx-libpinyin && im-config -n fcitx, then re-login. [18:55] happyaron, thanks [18:56] seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ido/lp1255076/+merge/196771 [18:56] seb128: gotta run now. Hope this works for you ;) [18:56] have a nice evening! [18:57] larsu, thanks again, have a good evening, you made my day! [18:57] ooh did I? [18:57] larsu, I'm not going to comment on your taking 10 days to write 10 lines of code on the scrollbars :p [18:57] awesome :) [18:57] "it's only code" :p [18:57] * seb128 hugs larsu [18:58] * larsu slaps seb128 [18:58] :PO [18:58] larsu, I'm glad you find a solution with such a small diff, I was getting concerned it would end up being a rewrite [18:58] seb128: ya, that's what I was getting tangled up in at first [18:58] which is why it took that long [18:58] but it only led to madness [19:00] larsu, anyway, the solution combined with it being that small patch made my day, enjoy your evening! [19:00] seb128: thanks, you too! [19:01] cyphermox, we need an ido upload as soon as https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ido/lp1255076/+merge/196771 get merged, can we make that happen through CI or do we better do a manual upload and merge back? [19:02] cyphermox, the current indicator-datetime is going unity-greeter down through this bug, which leads to "no way to log in" for users of the new indicator version (it's only in trusty-proposed atm but we can't count on that to remain true and some users get the update from the ppa/proposed) [19:06] attente: can you comment on seb128 [19:06] seb128 is a fine young man? [19:06] lol [19:06] ... his question on adding features to indicator-keyboard [19:11] hrm [19:12] how is that ido fix related to indicator-datetime? [19:13] nevermind [19:13] cyphermox, ido provides the calendar widget [19:13] I don't know why you're getting that, indicator-datetime was just fine here [19:14] cyphermox, I'm not the only one, it's the most reported issue today on e.u.c for trusty [19:14] cyphermox, I don't know why you are not getting that, did you try to go the greeter since you installed the update? [19:14] hpw can it be if it's still in proposed? [19:14] well anyway, we need to wait for the merge.. [19:14] cyphermox, I guess most trusty users run the daily build ppa or proposed [19:15] cyphermox, well, most reported = 10 reports [19:15] when specifically told not to? [19:15] ;) [19:15] we don't have that many reports [19:15] cyphermox, what version are you running? ;-) [19:15] trusty [19:15] that's why you don't see the issue :p [19:15] doesn't mean I install packages from proposed willy nilly [19:15] hehe [19:15] heh [19:16] well, anyway, if the indicator updates migrate to trusty, users are going to be unhappy [19:16] so let's avoid that [19:16] yes [19:16] * seb128 tries the fix, that might take my session down, brb [19:16] * cyphermox kicks jenkins [19:17] how lovely, it didn't screw my session and I could confirm the fix! [19:17] larsu, cyphermox, Kaleo: ido fix confirmed to work ;-) [19:18] yay [19:18] seb128, BRILLIANT [19:18] seb128, are we hardening the greeter? [19:19] Kaleo, I doubt it, we are planning to replace that one by the qt version, we should think about that for the new one [19:19] Kaleo, the switch might happen this cycle, so we are probably not going to spend much effort on the old codebase [19:19] seb128, cool [19:20] seb128, and by qt you mean QML of course right? [19:22] Kaleo, correct [19:22] seb128, thanks for your quick and efficient feedback on the bug [19:22] Kaleo, it's a variant of the phone greeter [19:22] seb128, it's refreshin [19:22] +g [19:22] Kaleo, yw ;-) [19:22] seb128, same code base? [19:23] seb128, (it should be the same code base) [19:23] Kaleo, yes, though we might not be fully converged this cycle [19:23] seb128, oki doki [19:23] * Kaleo is fully converged [19:23] ;-) [19:23] * Kaleo works with desktop, laptop, tv, phones and tablet [19:24] We hope to get there as well ;-) [19:27] cyphermox, ido fix merged [19:27] thx [19:28] kicked off a build just now [19:28] cyphermox, thanks! [19:38] tjaalton, mlankhorst: what does "merged" means for xorg? e.g where are http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2013-November/039228.html merged (they don't seem to be in the xserver git line) ... also, can we get those fixes backported to trusty? [19:38] ChrisTownsend, ^ hey, just for info [19:38] tjaalton, mlankhorst: that's needed for https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1171342 [19:38] Launchpad bug 1171342 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "mouse scroll wheel not working in gedit & System Monitor" [Medium,Triaged] [19:39] seb128: Hey, yeah, thanks. I guess you saw I tried those patches on my test machine and they fix the issue(s). [19:39] ChrisTownsend, yes, thanks for testing those! I'm glad that's fixed for the LTS [19:39] seb128: Yeah, me too. Any chance for Saucy SRU? [19:40] chrisccoulson, let's wait to get some trusty feedback to make sure there are no regressions first, then why not [19:40] ups [19:40] ChrisTownsend, ^ [19:40] chrisccoulson, sorry :p [19:40] lol, ok, sure, sounds good. [19:52] seb128: input stuff is first merged in peter's tree, then via a pull request to git master/stable [19:52] tjaalton, ok, that explains it, thanks [19:52] tjaalton, can we get those commits backported? ;-) [19:53] added a tag so it's at least on our radar [19:54] thanks [19:57] seb128: awesome :) [20:04] seb128, still around? [20:04] robert_ancell, hey, but just going for dinner, I'm back in ~30 min [20:04] seb128, np [20:05] so feel free to ask/wait for that [20:24] seb128, what appears to be happening in your case is you're switching to a user who has xfce configured as their session but you appear to have uninstalled xfce. LightDM then is not correctly handling the failure case [20:24] but I'd like to confirm you have xfce.desktop missing [20:34] robert_ancell, hey, I though about that this morning, that's another bug I think (I happened to test xfce yesterday for gtkheaderbar support in non gnome-shell environements) [20:35] robert_ancell, I can get another log if you want by just opening/closing a guest session [20:35] sure [20:35] robert_ancell, am I the only one to get the issue with guest sessions, really? ;-) [20:36] I haven't updated to trusty yet, I will check later today [20:36] robert_ancell, did you try to start a few of those/go back to your user/start again? [20:36] haha [20:36] but you are running 1.9? [20:38] Not right at the moment, but I was at one point [20:39] robert_ancell, ok, let's see if you get the issue once you upgrade, it seems to be only me so far so maybe it's a local issue ... or maybe I'm the only one running trusty and using guest session regularly ;-) [20:40] it's probably the latter! [20:41] though I looked at the commit log and didn't stop any obvious candidate commit for the issue :/ [20:42] no, me neither [20:42] seb128, so regarding the g-s-d schemas - we need to split those into a separate package then - gnome-settings-daemon-schemas? [20:42] cyphermox, how is the ido landing going? [20:43] I'm not sure that upstream does consider them a stable API though [20:43] robert_ancell, is there any divergence at the moment ? [20:43] no [20:43] just we need them separately packages [20:43] packaged [20:44] why? [20:44] if they have the same content [20:44] oh, I see what you mean [20:45] I was still set on you suggesting renaming the keys [20:45] yeah, having a separate binary seems fine [20:47] seb128, you were against renaming right? [20:49] robert_ancell, "were"? still are yes :p [20:49] were and are and always will be :) [20:49] lol [20:50] I would make g-s-d and u-s-s conflict and let GNOME remix decide which one they want to use... [20:53] nah, that's lame [20:57] robert_ancell, let's say it's suboptimal [20:57] yep [20:57] but renaming is non trivial and has side effects [20:58] which means it has a cost for us and most of our users [21:00] robert_ancell, well, anyway, what part of the renaming are we arguing about? [21:00] seb128, the schemas [21:00] we think we can rename most files, share the dbus service and schemas? [21:00] that's what I'm trying [21:01] ok, that seems fine to me [21:01] we can think more about the schemas issue if it turns out to be an issue in practice [21:01] but I think it's not going to be that much of an issue [21:02] robert_ancell, do you have an opinion on the naming? [21:02] seb128, I think it might be a future issue, but we should try just sharing the schemas for now and check closely what upstream does [21:02] right, +1 on that [21:02] We might just be able to keep the schemas patched with old keys if necessary [21:02] what about the g-s-d binary itself? [21:03] I think the renamed one should work fine [21:03] we can't give the name to the GNOME remix guys [21:03] do we keep it? [21:03] I don't want to have two packages containing the same files. That's ugly [21:03] which name? [21:03] or do we do e.g ubuntu-system-daemon and gnome-system-daemon-stock [21:04] system->settings [21:04] (doh, ubuntu-system-settings namespace colision :p) [21:04] we should leave the gnome one unchanged [21:04] we can't [21:04] that would screw upgrades for unity users [21:04] the upgrader/apt would insist on pulling in the GNOME version [21:05] we need a transition for the lts, then we can rename back if we want [21:05] like a dummy depending on new-name-ubuntu | new-name-gnome === mjohnson15_2 is now known as mjohnson15 [21:05] why would it? Wouldn't the thing that provides unity.desktop just depend on the new settings daemon [21:06] because you use precise and have gnome-settings-daemon installed [21:06] and you upgrade and apt is going to want to upgrade that package [21:06] it's not going to be easy to teach it to uninstall it to install ubuntu-settings-daemon [21:07] you can try but I bet money that you are going to get all sort of upgrade weirdness reports [21:07] history is not on your side in any case ;-) [21:07] (we had cases like that and we did end up doing the rename and dummy solution) [21:07] seb128, it doesn't matter if you have g-s-d installed - we wont be using it [21:08] well, it's a bit suboptimal to have it staying around then [21:08] you also need to ensure you get u-s-d installed [21:09] that makes we want system images for desktop btw... [21:10] seb128, yes, system images makes this all a lot easier [21:10] seb128, there's always left behind packages on upgrade. You have to do an apt-get autoremove to get rid of them [21:11] robert_ancell, well, in any case, we can test it your way first and change if needed. It's really an issue if both packages conflicts and apt has to pick one, I guess we can make it work with cases where g-s-d is a leftover there, it stills feels wrong, but it's not so much of an issue either... [21:12] robert_ancell, did you want more review/testing from me? With vUDS and other topics ongoing I didn't manage to look at your work yet, I just replied to the email [21:13] seb128, I've been away so nothing more to report yet [21:13] well, I don't know if you wanted a review on the current vcs work [21:13] I still plan to try that, I just didn't manage to do it yet [21:16] robert_ancell, g-s-d renaming seems doable in any case, g-c-c is a bit less easy due to the gnome-desktop depends [21:16] right [21:16] one step at the time I guess... [21:17] I wonder if we can just add back the old functions/apis to gnome-desktop under another namespace [21:17] to carry them over until we stop needed those [21:19] robert_ancell, btw, do you still read upstream gnome-calculator bugs? [21:19] yes :) [21:19] having fun there? [21:20] robert_ancell, yeah, I'm done though [21:20] robert_ancell, I blame you for letting them take over an age old project and destroy it... [21:20] I think we just have to carry patches for things like that - long term it doesn't matter and short term it's not too hard to patch [21:20] right [21:21] well, it just means those apps are going to stop being used out of GNOME [21:21] I don't care much for us, this cycle/LTS is not an issue [21:21] that's the direction that's occurring anyway [21:21] then we are going to replace them [21:21] but it still feels like that most app developers didn't think about that [21:21] the concept of a general "free desktop app" is pretty much dead [21:21] they go "oh, nice, GNOME integration" [21:21] right [21:21] I went to the same conclusion [21:22] the same way that iOS and android need different version of your apps, the different "linux desktops" are going to need different versions [21:22] developers used to try and maximise users, but now they're focussing on platforms. Which makes better apps for those platforms so I'm not opposed to the concept [21:22] yeah, me neither [21:23] I'm just not sure app dev who are porting their app to the new GNOME look realize that [21:23] well, atm most of those ports are GNOME core components [21:23] it's going to be less obvious for apps out of gnome.org [21:24] e.g what pidgin, inkscape, shotwell (though those moved to gnome infra), etc are going to do [21:24] I suspect the big players like inkscape will support multiple platforms with priority given to user base [21:24] these projects already tend to support windows anyway [21:25] right [21:28] ok, moving to the TV, might be back in a bit with the laptop if I get bored ;-) [21:28] see you tomorrow otherwise [21:28] bye [21:44] larsu: confirmed bug 1253810, not sure if only a problem in the indicator though [21:44] Launchpad bug 1253810 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "Messages in Incoming not always display the correct date and content" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253810 [21:45] rsalveti: interesting. I'll have a look, thanks === mjohnson15_2 is now known as mjohnson15 === tkamppeter__ is now known as tkamppeter [23:38] \\\\\\\\\