[00:04] <penguin42> what happened to the cool extruded thing that the steam guys were showing around ages ago?
[00:19] <shauno> the tiny almost-cube one?
[00:21] <penguin42> nod that looked kind of neat
[00:22] <diddledan> that wasn't steam
[00:22] <diddledan> it was a 4letter name beginning with q?
[00:23] <penguin42> but I thought that was around the time they were first talking about steam stuff?
[00:23] <diddledan> nope, ouya
[00:23] <penguin42> no, it's not ouya I was thinking of
[00:23] <shauno> these were showing up a lot last time around; http://www.xi3.com/store/system?model=piston
[00:24] <penguin42> yeh that's the one I was thinking of
[00:25] <shauno> cute, but the price tag is unrealistic and it's just not going to fit a graphics card that'll keep steam happy, I think
[00:25] <Seeker`> what do you think would keep steam happy?
[00:26] <diddledan> well they put a titan in their demo box
[00:26] <Seeker`> most people don't need a titan
[00:26] <penguin42> http://www.xi3.com/servers/microserv3r-data-server  wth is the netowrk connector on there?
[00:27] <diddledan> penguin42: why or where? for where: top left
[00:28] <shauno> top left is ethernet.  right of that is .. curious
[00:29] <diddledan> coult the "network" port be fiber?
[00:29] <Seeker`> wireless module?>
[00:30] <shauno> a little tiny window so you can peek inside, because "the network is the computer" ?
[00:30] <Seeker`> it has 4 usb 2 ports, 4 usb 3, 4 esata, 1 ethernet, 2 3.5mm audio, 1 DP/HDMI, 1 mini DP, 1 SPDIF
[00:30] <Seeker`> only thing left on the specs is "1 – Wireless optional (802.11a/b/g/n or Bluetooth)"
[00:31] <shauno> and yeah, most people don't need a spaceheater of a gpu
[00:31] <Seeker`> shauno: I imagine most people would be happy with ipad-level graphics
[00:32] <Seeker`> which is a tiny GPU
[00:32] <shauno> but if you think that for the vast majority of steam's userbase, you can safely assume they already have something PCish for their current usage
[00:33] <penguin42> I don't think that's an SFP/fibre module shape is it? Maybe it is
[00:33] <Seeker`> People that care about high-end gaming have an xbox/ps/PC, so a small device like that is probably aimed at the market which plays games on tablets etc.
[00:33] <Seeker`> or wii
[00:34] <shauno> I'd imaging that creates a gap where I'm not sure I'd pay high-dollar amounts for a degraded experience.  it better at least match what I'm already rocking
[00:34] <diddledan> no it's not sfp
[00:35] <diddledan> "would have an xbox/ps" <-- the steam box is supposed to replace those
[00:36] <Seeker`> really?
[00:36] <diddledan> yes, really.
[00:37] <diddledan> they want to game in the living room using the steam platform instead of whatever else you currently use
[00:39] <diddledan> Seeker`: the point is they want games like crysis 57 to run on it
[00:39] <Seeker`> crysis 57 would need about 500 titans :P
[00:39] <diddledan> or whatever the most demanding game du jour is
[00:39] <penguin42> all the boxes are just PCs now anyway
[00:41] <diddledan> anyway, it's bedtime
[00:41] <shauno> "ipad graphics" only really works places where the software is designed for them. valve's own titles wouldn't work on something like that
[00:42] <shauno> of course, half the fun is that they're leaving the hardware up to everyone else.  so if there's a market for tiny boxes, there's nothing stopping them
[00:43] <Seeker`> shauno: why do you think valve's titles wouldn't work?
[00:43] <ali1234> because they have good graphics?
[00:44] <ali1234> nobody is going to buy a steambox to play games from 5 years ago
[00:45]  * penguin42 doesn't think the steambox would have low end graphics
[00:47] <shauno> from my pov, because I'm totally used to seeing titles on Steam for OSX, and apple's appstore, flat out tell you not to bother if you're on the integrated chipsets
[00:48] <shauno> it's gonna be gutsy trying to push an ecosystem that'll only play their linux titles, let alone shooting themselves in the other foot too
[00:50] <shauno> not that I'm complaining - I'm hoping they pull it off, because it should make cross-platform a lot more attractive for publishers.  but I don't think they're trying to compete with the ouya.  steam's target market are gamers
[01:05] <directhex> that's an SFP port
[03:36] <daftykins> contempt: all i have is contempt for you
[07:12] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:12] <diddledan> huhu
[07:21] <SuperMatt> http://imgur.com/gallery/7OQpkkJ when computers figure this out, we're screwed
[07:30] <diddledan> lol
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: uh oh, don't give them idea!
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> s
[07:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning
[07:56] <popey> pip pip
[07:57] <popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ladar/lavabits-dark-mail-initiative # looks like that isn't going to succeed
[07:58] <jussi> SuperMatt: that is so 1985... :P all they have to do now is plug themselves in...
[07:58] <popey> hah, love that cartoon
[07:59] <Myrtti> ih http://gizmodo.com/5634257/ikea-let-loose-a-herd-of-100-cats-into-store-to-see-what-happens
[08:00] <Myrtti> popey: miracles have happened before
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Great video Myrtti :-)
[08:12] <Myrtti> popey: if the video were any better I might even contribute but as of now it's TL;DW
[08:14] <popey> i haven't because I'm unconvinced it would be useful to anyone to open source that project
[08:14] <popey> vs adding features to other products
[09:16] <dwatkins> morning
[09:17] <MooDoo> morning
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> \o
[09:17] <dwatkins> d'oh, Windows wants to reboot, little does it know that it's not the default OS. I guess I'll have to let it reboot, and change the grub order.
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Windows never expects other OSes to be there, somehow
[09:17] <dwatkins> (I'm 5 miles away from the PC)
[09:17] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: how arrogant of it
[09:18] <dwatkins> ...and there it goes - stupid updater forcing me to restart mumble...mumble...
[09:18] <dwatkins> I wouldn't normally mind, but I'm in the process of uploading a bunch of stuff to Bitcasa.
[09:19] <dwatkins> ...or at least I was
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyb6xqiZDPw ?
[09:21] <dwatkins> haha yeah
[09:21] <dwatkins> I've only left it running Windows 8 because there's no Linux client for Bitcasa.
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> what's bitcasa?
[09:21] <dwatkins> Infinite storage based on Amazon Web Services.
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> bitcoin storage?
[09:22] <dwatkins> You install the application and it maps a network drive with a capacity of 8 Exabytes.
[09:22] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: https://code.google.com/p/s3fs/
[09:23] <dwatkins> interesting, I wonder how much they will charge me for storing 5 TB on there.
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I store several 100 GB of raw photos on glacier
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's $2.50/month
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> but S3 is more expensive
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> like $7/month or something
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> so maybe $20 for you?
[09:24] <dwatkins> Bitcasa was $99 a year, but then they changed their pricing model, it's ten times as much for infinite storage now!
[09:24] <dwatkins> Thankfully I signed-up before the price hike.
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: S3 is expensive.. $0.095 for the first TB/month
[09:25] <dwatkins> wow yeah
[09:25] <MartijnVdS> 0.080/TB/month for the next 49TB
[09:25] <dwatkins> http://www.clearpathsg.com/backup-AWS-S3-Calculator tells me I'd be paying $512 a month!
[09:25] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: glad I'm using glacier then -- it's not instant-access, but it's not super expensive either ;)
[09:25] <dwatkins> That was the thing with Bitcasa, it was cheaper than continuing to buy new hard drives.
[09:26] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Shopping Reminder Day! :-D
[09:27] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Shopping Reminder? Sounds like Americans who don't want to get crushed to death on Black Friday ;)
[09:27] <dwatkins> damn, I didn't untick the "install updates automatically" and now I have IE 11 which doesn't work with the system I need it for
[09:27] <dwatkins> so much for having a VM dedicated to using this
[09:27] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: or "buy your thanksgiving stuff NAO"
[09:27] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, good point!
[09:28] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.modern.ie
[09:28] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Microsoft offers VMs with all kinds of Internet Explorers on all kinds of Windowses
[09:29] <directhex> MartijnVdS, explicitly distributing VBox images for use on linux. blimey.
[09:30] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, unfortunately I don't have control of the VMWare server, otherwise I'd just put that in place
[09:30] <Myrtti> on the concept of reminding to shop
[09:30] <Myrtti> right now, on Amazon.co.uk http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00DSNWM2K/
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> directhex: yeah, I was surprised as well.. but I'm not complaining ;)
[09:31]  * dwatkins uninstalls IE 11 and wishes there was a feedback button to swear at them with
[09:31] <MartijnVdS> directhex: and it's official/supported by Microsoft as well!
[09:31] <dwatkins> Can you do other stuff with those VMs?
[09:31] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: not a lot, I guess
[09:31] <dwatkins> I assumed they would be locked-down, or a 180-day trial
[09:32] <dwatkins> I treated this VM as an application, since I remote-desktop to it I can switch between it and other apps, and it's not dependant on how busy my laptop is
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: some are trials, but they explicitly allow you to re-install
[09:32] <dwatkins> occasioanlly I do stuff with it, like write a script to kill and restart rdpclip (known bug)
[09:33] <dwatkins> hopefully http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/internet-explorer/ie-10-worldwide-languages will do what I need
[09:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> Talking of shopping & Christmas etc... Has anyone got one of those insulated travel mugs that you use in the car that has an "anti-spillage" feature?
[09:34] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: anti-spill?
[09:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> anti-leak then.
[09:35] <popey> dunno what that means ☻
[09:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've seen some on Amazon etc. but have no idea of they are any good or not. It's for a xmas pressie.
[09:35] <popey> I mean, I have a travel mug
[09:35] <popey> url?
[09:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> If you drop it or it falls out of the car holder does your coffee leak out or not?
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: like http://www.amazon.co.uk/BESTEK-Stainless-Insulated-container-BTVT550/dp/B00AX0Y7OW you mean?
[09:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.witt-international.co.uk/products/leak-proof-travel-mug/_/A-98B193_
[09:37] <popey> oh sure, it will yeah
[09:37] <popey> but i dont drop it
[09:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Not quite, that's really a thermos that you can drink from if you undo the lid a bit.
[09:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> See the link I posted
[09:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh reading a bit more MartijnVdS that might be OK actually...
[09:40] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: the description is very similar to the one you posted
[09:40] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: but I don't see how it's both "always leak-proof" and "quarter twist to drink"
[09:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> This one looks like the mutt's nutts
[09:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermos-Genuine-Stainless-Leak-Proof-Travel/dp/B00719NIG6/ref=pd_cp_kh_3
[09:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> "Built-in tea hook, easily holds tea bags and most loose leaf infusers" This will impress my wife as she drinks gallons of tea...
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: leak proof: http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_5?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=sippy%20cup&sprefix=sippy%2Caps%2C175&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Asippy%20cup
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that one is awesome, with the tea bit :) have to remember that for my tea-loving friends :)
[09:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, "sippy cups" isn't quite what was I was after ;-)
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: they're leak-proof ;)
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> maybe they have thermos sippy cups 8-)
[09:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not insulated
[09:43] <MartijnVdS> http://www.thermos.com/product_catalog.aspx?CatCode=Foog
[09:48] <dwatkins> there we go, IE 11 uninstalled, and IE 10 works with this cursed tool
[09:50] <bashrc> Havn't used exploder for years
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> popey: 20:15 tonight, Amazon.co.uk will have a "black friday deal" on this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00DNB02S8/ref=gb1h_img_c-1_8827_cbfdbf94?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=05TFZFY0B3R2VPWNNYSE&pf_rd_i=161428031&pf_rd_p=449478827
[09:58] <SuperMatt> where are you getting these from?
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: go to the top right of amazon.co.uk, click "Black Friday Deals", then "Upcoming"
[09:59] <SuperMatt> I never really pay any attention to the front page
[10:00] <SuperMatt> go figure
[10:02] <popey> MartijnVdS: ooh!
[10:04] <popey> i dont actually have a sane size salt/pepper shaker
[10:05] <MartijnVdS> popey: I have these: http://shop.lego.com/en-US/Salt-and-Pepper-Set-850705
[10:06] <popey> hah cute
[10:06]  * popey adds to wishlist
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> Hmm.. Ubuntu-UK Secret Santa? ;)
[10:07] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: no don't suggest that, I'm arranging works and it's a fscking nightmare :D
[10:07] <popey> hah
[10:08] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "Can't have X buy a present for Y or they'll mess up and it'l be drama"
[10:16] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:16] <MooDoo> orning
[10:16] <popey> "Your Amazon.co.uk order of "2" x "D-Link DUB-H7 7 - Port USB..." has been dispatched" \o/
[10:17] <brobostigon> morning
[10:20] <popey> my kids would love http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BFBWQKA/
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> popey: I have the blue one
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> popey: several of them, actually
[10:20] <popey> minifig ones?
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> yeah
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> they also work for chocolate ;)
[10:21] <popey> I have less motivation for these because our fridge has an ice making drawer
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> pour in molten (pure) chocolate, stick in fridge, get chocolate minifigs!
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> (dark)*
[10:22] <popey> haha, good idea!
[10:22]  * popey adds to wishlist
[10:22] <popey> lol http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silicone-Mould-Brick-Cupcake-Decoration/dp/B008J35BY0
[10:23] <popey> home effort
[10:29] <Myrtti> btw there's a smaller version of yesterdays SSD on sale in an hour
[10:33] <Myrtti> and TP-Link powerline starter kit at 1530
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> I just got this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00C80JGGO
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> to replace my aging Harmony (which has a bad battery)
[10:37] <TwistedLucidity> Why does a mobile phone need a remote control?
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: it's the other way around :)
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: phone talks to black box which sends out IR to all devices
[10:37] <TwistedLucidity> "Well, I found my phone but where's the remote? DAMMIT!"
[10:38] <directhex> MartijnVdS, i got a netgear wifi extender yesterday, it's better rated than today's tp-link wifi range extender
[10:39] <TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: I used to use my PalmPilot as a multi-device remote, worked really well.
[10:40] <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: we would have considered getting one if our AV Receiver didn't do a pretty good job on its own already
[10:40] <Myrtti> well, the AV receiver remote
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: All my other remotes are *bad*
[10:42] <Myrtti> yeah, so were ours
[10:43] <Myrtti> just happy that we got a good remote on the av receiver
[10:43] <Myrtti> the only thing I don't like about it is the Spotify app on it being a bit pants
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: oh, is it an Onkyo?
[10:43] <Myrtti> yeah
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> I can't control any of my other devices with my Onkyo remote :(
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> well, I could control them a bit, if I enabled HDMI Control stuff
[10:44] <Myrtti> to compensate with the Spotify thing being bad I bought the bluetooth thingie I linked earier
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> but then it'd turn the TV on when I just want to listen to a CD ...
[10:44] <Myrtti> so I can play spotify from my phone
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> (yes, I "still" listen to CDs)
[11:10] <bashrc> CDs are a legacy technology now.  The last time I bought one was a few years ago.
[11:10] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: I still buy several each month :)
[11:11] <bashrc> typically I just download MP3s - from legal sources of course - so long as there isn't any DRM attached to them
[11:12] <bashrc> it's a lot more convenient than the physical media
[11:12] <shauno> my consumption of DD floppies averages out to a couple a month, doesn't mean they're not legacy
[11:13] <MartijnVdS> new music is still released on CD..
[11:13] <bashrc> true
[11:13] <bashrc> the future is here, it's just not evenly distributed
[11:13] <AlanBell> shauno: what on earth are you doing with them?
[11:13] <shauno> new music is still released on vinyl ;)
[11:13] <MartijnVdS> shauno: that *is* silly :P
[11:14] <MartijnVdS> inferior analog technology!
[11:33] <directhex> cd is a retro format, like vinyl
[11:33] <directhex> but my car supports only CD or line-in
[11:34] <MartijnVdS> mine supports bluetooth as well
[11:34] <MartijnVdS> A2DP
[11:56] <Myrtti> 120GB SSD http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BQ4F9ZA/
[11:57] <popey> 55 quid vs 70 quid
[11:57] <popey> nice
[12:05] <SuperMatt> I'm finding it quite frustrating that ssd prices really haven't dipped in a while
[12:06] <MooDoo> I'll be happy when 500gb ssd's are £100 ish
[12:06] <SuperMatt> indeed
[12:07] <SuperMatt> I think the current small sizes are the thing that's stopping gamers from buying them. If the released some relatively cheap 500s, they'd see a massive upswell in sales
[12:11] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: people are still afraid of SSDs breaking quicker than spinning rust
[12:13] <SuperMatt> then don't use them for important files
[12:13] <SuperMatt> games, yes! all your photos ever: nuh-uh
[12:14] <SuperMatt> at worst you have to redownload your games if the disk fails
[12:15] <AlanBell> they fail to read-only
[12:16] <AlanBell> rather than a crunchy scratchy mess
[12:16] <directhex> gamers are the ones buying SSDs
[12:16] <penguin42> AlanBell: Doesn't seem to always be the case - the only two people I know of whose SSDs have failed have failed to bricks
[12:17] <directhex> which is why so many are gamer-centric in their marketing & presentation, and coming from gamer peripheral companies like corsair
[12:17] <AlanBell> they are designed to fail to read-only and I have heard from some people who had that failure mode
[12:17] <penguin42> but SSDs are great for the boot drive or dev - they're just amazing on boot times
[12:17] <directhex> most SSDs don't fail to read-only. that's one of the biggest factors for brand choice
[12:17] <directhex> i.e. intel drives should fail to read-only. an ocz won't
[12:18] <MartijnVdS> intel++
[12:18] <directhex> penguin42, not just boot... all slow app startups. of which games can be the worst
[12:19] <penguin42> nod
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> level loading times
[12:19] <directhex> yes
[12:19] <directhex> modern games need to spool several gig of textures, maps, etc, off the disk in a single level
[12:20] <MartijnVdS> I've heard stories of people being banned for cheating because their load times were too low (this was when SSDs were very new)
[12:21] <popey> bah, royal snail thing through the door
[12:21] <popey> customs charge  + vat
[12:22] <popey> bet this is my 3doodler
[12:22] <directhex> in 2004, i discovered that linux/reiserfs was much faster to load unreal tournament 2004 maps than xp/ntfs on my pc
[12:22] <directhex> so i used linux for online gaming, to get onto a map a few seconds sooner
[12:22] <directhex> so i could get the best guns and vehicle before the rest of my team finished spawning
[12:24] <penguin42> haha
[12:28] <directhex> is youtube broken today for everyone else? most videos stop loading a few seconds in
[12:28] <Myrtti> popey: uhoh :-( we only got ThriftyVac today
[12:28] <diplo> When Blueyonder were new and I was still on there dialup, I used to connect to BY Game servers quick than anyone else and used to have very very low pings, always used to get accused of something
[12:30] <directhex> i remember Wireplay
[12:30] <diplo> Ah yes Wireplay days
[12:30] <diplo> I admin'd a few WP servers but I was mainly a BY admin
[12:31] <diplo> And then after the demise of BY I moved over to Multiplay, ran my own servers and helped admin the MP servers
[12:31] <diplo> And then had kids and it pretty much all stopped :)
[12:43] <directhex> right now youtube is taking about 3 minutes to download 15 or 30 second chunks of video
[12:43] <directhex> it's annoying
[12:43] <popey> \o/ it is
[12:44] <diplo> Just trying now, seems to work fine here
[12:44] <directhex> it's video dependent
[12:44] <diplo> A minute in an no buffering/break
[12:44] <diplo> ah
[12:46] <directhex> at 2pm my digital camera is on amazon black friday
[12:46] <directhex> for rather less than i paid for it
[12:46] <directhex> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003VTZ7TQ/
[12:47] <penguin42> directhex: That's the price before it gets black-friday'd
[12:47] <directhex> penguin42, yep. i paid around £400.
[12:47] <penguin42> directhex: How many times have you used it?
[12:47] <directhex> prices drop, apparently
[12:47] <directhex> penguin42, took it to the USA, it was great
[13:28] <Myrtti> popey: how much was the customs and VAT?
[13:30] <TwistedLucidity> popey, it's not just that. It's customs + VAT (if any) + Royal Mail service charge. If you speak to HMRC, you can get all the taxes done before hand and avoid the Royal Mail charge.
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> ooh, a notice from the Machine of Death people that they'll be sending my game soon
[13:30]  * TwistedLucidity periodically imports motorcycle parts
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> popey: did you get that as well?
[13:31] <popey> TwistedLucidity: i know ☻
[13:31] <popey> it was about 14 quid
[13:31] <popey> no, 15
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> hey, it's €14 for PostNL
[13:31] <TwistedLucidity> popey: Of course, the question becomes which bloody category the "thing" falls under.
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> what a coincidence
[13:32] <shauno> the handling fee bugs me here.  if customs stop it I get charged 7eur, whether there's any import fees due or not
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> shauno: oh we don't have that.. just the service charge, and only if customs decides to require fees
[13:33] <TwistedLucidity> Anyone got advice on laptop locks? i.e. which ones resist picking, forcing, cutting etc? Can't find any destruction tests.
[13:33] <diplo> Anyone here use any graphing software in there web apps ? like HighCharts
[13:34] <shauno> I'm pretty sure highcharts is exactly the one I use
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: they're not meant for that, they're meant to deter people from just running away with the laptop.
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: with enough force you can get them off, but that tends to be conspicuous
[13:35] <directhex> and dam,age the casing
[13:35] <TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: If they are too easy to pick/force; they are worthless.
[13:35] <diplo> shauno: It is the best it seems :) need something for a web app that I'm 99% sure my boss won't pay for so just looking at any other recommendations
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: sure, you want it to be conspicuous :)
[13:35] <directhex> TwistedLucidity, increasing theft time from 0s to 10s makes your laptop the riskiest in a set of un-locked laptops
[13:36] <TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: Not really, the circular keys are often prone to simple attacks. A decent thief could basically "palm" the lock and walk off, if the lock is vulnerable.
[13:37] <shauno> diplo: that's pretty much what I arrived at. chart.js looks pretty too, but has no interactivity (by design), which tends to be a simple touch that makes my quick botches look fancier than they are
[13:40] <diplo> I'm not worried about interactivity at the mo, I just found that one as well
[13:40] <diplo> Going to give it a go in a bit
[13:41] <diplo> cheers
[13:49] <popey> TwistedLucidity: experience shows us that doesn't happen. theifs go for the easiest one to steal, the one that isnt locked
[13:54] <MartijnVdS> hm, that's a new one.. Google Calendar invitation spam
[13:57] <TwistedLucidity> popey: That's true, any lock is better than no lock. But if I am going to have a lock...may as well find a semi-decent one, y'know?
[13:57]  * popey shrugs
[13:57] <ali1234> what are you going to lock it to?
[13:58] <MartijnVdS> the inside of a bank vault? ;)
[13:58] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: If I locked it to something it wouldn't be portable.
[13:58]  * TwistedLucidity is joking
[13:59] <TwistedLucidity> Turns out Targus Defcon is highly rated. Good locks, so that'll do me.
[13:59] <ali1234> i'm so confused
[13:59] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's okay, we know
[13:59] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: I was joking.
[13:59] <ali1234> which time tho?
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> all the time!
[14:00] <TwistedLucidity> It will, most likely, be locked to a table in the office. An office with a sad history of laptops, USB drives and even monitors(!) disappearing.
[14:01] <ali1234> you'll get to work and find no table
[14:01] <popey> or missing a leg
[14:01] <popey> or a leg bent
[14:01] <diddledan> more campaign thingies against surveillance: https://en.necessaryandproportionate.org/take-action/ORG
[14:02] <diddledan> actually that's a good campaign title: "THINGIES AGAINST SURVEILLANCE"
[14:02] <TwistedLucidity> That's where the tracker comes in. But then we hit issues with encrypted swap. Hey ho, life is never simple.
[14:02] <AlanBell> diddledan: "add your name, address and bank details to this list of people to protect your privacy"
[14:03] <MooDoo> AlanBell: he needs to add pin and csv as well just to be sure.
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: also, expiration date and ccv ;)
[14:06] <diddledan> AlanBell: can you think of a better way?
[14:08] <AlanBell> diddledan: ORG is a somewhat good organisation, I was just amused by the idea of compiling a list of names of people who don't like to be named on a list
[14:09] <TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Make the tools easier to use and more commonly known to allow folks to go "dark". Yes this will have consequences, but the bad guys already know how to do it.
[14:09] <AlanBell> is there a moderately sensible way to get a 3.2 kernel on saucy?
[14:09] <AlanBell> I tried upgrading to trusty but do-release-upgrade -d failed and rolled back
[14:10] <ali1234> 3.2?
[14:10] <ali1234> you mean 3.12?
[14:11] <AlanBell> kernel bug 61621 suggests that it should be fixed in 3.12
[14:11] <AlanBell> yes, sorry, 3.12
[14:11] <ali1234> well there is always the kernel ppa...
[14:11] <TwistedLucidity> Or compile....
[14:11] <ali1234> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.12-saucy/
[14:11] <popey> yes, just get it from http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[14:11] <ali1234> if that works, just build your own package
[14:12] <popey> bah
[14:12] <AlanBell> perfect :)
[14:12] <popey> thats the kernel I'm running
[14:12] <ali1234> the mainline ppa doesn't have ubuntu patches
[14:12] <popey> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.12-saucy/
[14:12] <ali1234> but i'm not really sure what those are good for anyway
[14:12] <popey> proving if a problem exists as a result of ubuntu patches and proving it exists in upstream later release kernels
[14:12] <popey> gives the kernel team the right place to focus
[14:13] <ali1234> no, i mean i'm not really sure what the point of ubuntu's patches is
[14:13] <ali1234> since they don't seem to do anything
[14:15] <popey> thats one for cking
[14:16] <TwistedLucidity> Improving performance with Amazon? :-D
[14:16] <cking> increasing my work load? ;-)
[14:16] <ali1234> destroying desktop interactivity by setting swappiness far too high?
[14:17] <ali1234> did that spaceship ever take off yesterday?
[14:18] <diplo> Nope, thursday now
[14:20] <Azelphur> ali1234: question for you, I have one of these http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51nW4RudxmL._SL1000_.jpg been trying to open it up...is it sane to even try to open it up? (It's a USB battery for charging phones and stuff)
[14:20] <ali1234> what do you mean?
[14:20] <ali1234> if you get it open you probably won't find anything useful inside
[14:20] <Azelphur> like, I'm trying to get into the case
[14:20] <ali1234> just a lithium battery and charging circuit
[14:21] <ali1234> the charging circuit will probably die if disconnected from the battery
[14:21] <Azelphur> I saw a hack the other day where someone opened up a nexus 7, ripped apart a QI charging case for a phone, stuck the coil inside and wired it up to the USB port, essentially adding QI charging to a Nexus 7 v1
[14:21] <Azelphur> was hoping to do the same with my battery
[14:21] <ali1234> why not just build it from scratch?
[14:22] <Azelphur> you raise a good argument
[14:22] <Azelphur> would require learning, but this sort of thing is what project boxes were made for
[14:22] <ali1234> i have no idea how easy it would be to get inside that case
[14:22] <Azelphur> I've been trying for a while, it really doesn't wanna come open
[14:22] <ali1234> but it should be possible to do what you're describing
[14:22] <ali1234> photos?
[14:23] <ali1234> proper ones showing the back
[14:24] <popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+RodWhitby/posts/fAse7vGmc3q
[14:24] <popey> that kind of thing?
[14:25] <Azelphur> yup the one I saw was a bit simpler though
[14:25] <ali1234> the nexus 7 is really easy to open, but not so easy to put back together
[14:26] <Azelphur> photos taking forever to upload \o/
[14:26] <ali1234> the back is loose now
[14:26] <Azelphur> ali1234: really? I opened mine and put it back no problem
[14:26] <popey> same here
[14:26] <ali1234> mine now squeaks when you squeeze it in a certain place
[14:26] <popey> is it on right?
[14:26] <ali1234> yes
[14:26] <ali1234> i think there was some glue on it
[14:26] <popey> i found mine did squeak once when it wasn't on right
[14:26] <popey> removed and re-attached
[14:27] <ali1234> i will give it a try
[14:27] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Gaffa-tape?
[14:27] <ali1234> jaffa-tape \o/
[14:27] <Seeker`> Jabber \o/
[14:28] <ali1234> Shabba \o/
[14:28]  * Seeker` remember when Matt J used to respond to that instantly
[14:28] <Azelphur> why on earth are my photos taking so long to upload :(
[14:28] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: because your upstream bandwidth is 0?
[14:29] <Azelphur> oops, helps if I have my phone connected to wifi and not 3g :)
[14:29] <ali1234> i accidentally downloaded a cyanogen rom on 3g the other day
[14:29] <ali1234> left it downloading, didn't realise i turned wifi off
[14:30] <MartijnVdS> I have more 4G bandwidth than wifi speed at work
[14:30] <MartijnVdS> 25mbit up + 25 down instead of 25 down, 1 up
[14:30] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: if you keep doing that...I WILL come and live with you.
[14:30] <Azelphur> xD
[14:30] <Azelphur> you and your actually having decent internet
[14:30] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also, no naughtyness filters
[14:30] <MartijnVdS> *by law*
[14:31] <Azelphur> \o/
[14:31] <Azelphur> where do I sign up?
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: booking.com seems to want to import a lot of people ;)
[14:31] <Azelphur> ali1234: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uwygai9qerxbh8e/2013-11-26%2014.24.09.jpg photo finally made it to the internet \o/
[14:32] <Azelphur> I've been trying to get it open by pulling it apart with a screwdriver in the corner here, https://www.dropbox.com/s/q9dsdsromgvze1u/2013-11-26%2014.24.20.jpg but not much luck
[14:32] <Azelphur> it opens a little but won't give, wonder if it's glued shut or something.
[14:33] <ali1234> that photo is too blurry
[14:33] <ali1234> put a credit card in the gap and go around the outside all the way
[14:33] <ali1234> if that doesn't work it's glued
[14:34] <TwistedLucidity> Azelphur: Lots of these things are held together by little more than clips/hooks. Once you know where they are, you know where to (gently) push to release them.
[14:34] <TwistedLucidity> Unless of course, as ali1234 suggests, the wee bugger is glued.
[14:34]  * Azelphur breaks out the credit card
[14:35] <Azelphur> ali1234: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4i40opjamu9r23h/2013-11-26%2014.33.44.jpg?m= less blurry
[14:35] <shauno> probably easiest to borrow a small child.  they can open anything
[14:35] <Azelphur> hehe
[14:36] <diplo> shauno: +1
[14:36] <diplo> Get my kids to do stuff for me all the time now, especially the older one.
[14:37] <ali1234> Azelphur: i need to see the join...
[14:37] <Azelphur> ali1234: the join is on the sides
[14:39] <Azelphur> ali1234: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5je9d4tgna6u2k6/2013-11-26%2014.37.43.jpg?m=
[14:39] <ali1234> looks like it clips on
[14:39] <Azelphur> cool
[14:40] <Azelphur> how easy would it be to make a USB charger like that though? I wonder if the multiple outputs would make it harder
[14:40] <mungbean> my 3 yr old kid is forcing me to keep sharp
[14:41] <mungbean> i had to learn the 66 books of the bible song because he learned it all and i had no excuses for not learning it
[14:41] <mungbean> when he gets to wanting pi to 50dp i will admit defeat
[14:42] <Azelphur> hehe
[14:43] <davmor2> mungbean: wait till he starts correcting your work that's when you get to cry
[14:43] <mungbean> he tries even now
[14:44] <mungbean> no daddy thats not how you say it, repeat after me...
[14:52] <MartijnVdS> another reason to ignore the bible ;)
[14:54] <mungbean> i don't its required to learn the order of the books to get into heaven...
[14:54] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: to be fair you don't want to ignore it all,  It has some epic battles, some great lyrics for Love songs, and if you're Coolio you get to turn one line into a huge number 1 :)
[14:54] <mungbean> actually there's a new series on TV starting saturday , its supposed to be high quality
[14:55] <mungbean> they will probably focus on the battles a lot for the guys
[14:56] <TwistedLucidity> Meh - the Greek and Roman gods if you want epic battles.
[14:57] <MooDoo> mungbean: what's the series? missed it
[14:57] <mungbean> called "The bible" starting on channel 5 this sat
[14:58] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: that tends to be less epic battle and more acts of heroism :)  The bible has things like the war of the hitites where an entire civilisation was destroyed :D
[14:58] <mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wujo2dFBUL0
[14:58] <MooDoo> ah isn't there one about moses as well soon or is that amovie
[14:58] <mungbean> 185000 assyrians were slaughtered in one day
[14:58] <mungbean> MooDoo: noah
[14:58] <mungbean> its a film
[14:58] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: True, true.
[15:00] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: There was a great documentary on Channel 4 (I think) where they compared the bible to the archeological evidence and the known political history. Fascinating to see how bits got dropped/added/rewritten.
[15:01] <mungbean> you mean when they didn't believe nebuchandezzar existed and then they found a pot with his name on?
[15:02] <TwistedLucidity> mungbean: Don't recall that bit. More about how the fortifications reported in the text weren't actually in use when the bible claimed they were.
[15:02] <TwistedLucidity> See if I can dredge up the docu....saw it a while ago, might not be available now
[15:02] <mungbean> usually thats due to incorrect timelines
[15:03] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: One thing I heard on a documentary that was similar was that history is always written by the victors, pretty much true across all of history :)
[15:04] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: That was the general thrust of this one too.
[15:04] <mungbean> i like how they say things on archaeology programmes like "hmm it looks like the whole of egypt moved to cities, and used loads of slave labour, we have no idea why"
[15:05] <mungbean> and then in genesis you see why it happened
[15:05] <mungbean> the whole of egypt went to cities and sold themselves to the govt to pay for food in the 7 year famine
[15:06] <TwistedLucidity> Well, I can see a central organsational system allowing for better distribution of resources (a form of social welfare). But did it happen? Was that the main reason is happened, or was it merely a symtpom of some other driver?
[15:07] <TwistedLucidity> I'm not an Egyptologist or much of a historian, so I really don't know.
[15:13] <TwistedLucidity> I'm drawing a blank - the docu had a female biblical scholar, I remember that much. Just can't seem to find it.
[15:15] <TwistedLucidity> "Jesus was a Bhuddist monk"? Ha ha ha....no, don't think that's the one either
[15:20] <mungbean> not convinced by these amazon flash sales
[15:20] <mungbean> if wonder if people are just buying them because they think its a bargain, when sometimes its not really a massive bargain and not something they need...
[15:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> mungbean: Ebuyer are doing the same thing have had 2 emails today for specific products being sold at ...? prices. Nothing I was interested in though.
[15:21] <TwistedLucidity> Ah-ha! Think this is it. http://biblicalauthorship.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/bbc-bibles-buried-secrets-2011.html
[15:22] <bigcalm> mungbean: this is why shops have sales. People will buy because they save money, even if they logically don't need it
[15:30] <shauno> I don't like these 2-hour windows on the amazon one.  so if I want it I have to buy it now, and if I want something else in 2 hours time I have to pay shipping again?
[15:31] <mungbean> encourages the amazon prime thing
[15:33] <shauno> heh, apparently amazon prime ends up costing more in shipping for Ireland
[16:02] <rubydev> SimonLAmb
[16:04] <ali1234> mungbean: i'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens
[16:07] <arsen> well, i did buy the 240gig crucial SSD from the amazon sale, mungbean. been wanting one years and been too lazy to use it, but at £90 it was a good price i think.
[16:08] <TwistedLucidity> arsen: There was a 240GB one? Dammit - I only saw the 120GB
[16:09] <arsen> yeah i never wanted a 120gig one, too small for my gaming machine - means i have to be concious of space usage. 240 should be fine.
[16:50] <Myrtti> TwistedLucidity: yesterday
[18:34] <popey> Golly. http://yoyogames.com/news/188
[18:36] <diddledan> why is sourceforge so ugly?
[18:36] <daftykins> diddledan: just any page @ .net?
[18:37] <daftykins> doesn't look too painful :D
[18:37] <diddledan> I think it's too "busy"
[18:37] <diddledan> http://sourceforge.net/directory/os:mac/freshness:recently-updated/ for e.g.
[18:38] <diddledan> the "top apps" section is below the fold
[18:39] <daftykins> hmm, i don't have an adblocker on this system so yeah it is quite bleh
[18:40] <diddledan> the owners' site isn't very pretty either - it's like a blast from web1.0: http://www.diceholdingsinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=211152&p=irol-landing
[18:41] <ali1234> popey: "only" $500?
[18:44] <ali1234> diddledan: sourceforge has always been extremely ugly. slow too. and difficult to use.
[18:45] <diddledan> github ftew
[18:45] <diddledan> ftw*
[18:45] <diddledan> sourceforge has gone nasty-commercial
[18:46] <diddledan> they _originally_ (way way back) were all about the open source, now they're all about the monies
[18:46] <diddledan> I like github's business model
[18:47] <daftykins> shame about their repeatedly getting owned
[18:47] <daftykins> though granted that may be a significant proportion down to a user's securing of their own site
[18:47] <diddledan> daftykins: owned as in bought-out or pwned as in haxx0red?
[18:48] <daftykins> the latter
[18:48] <diddledan> speaking of which, I got my letter from adobe the other day
[18:48] <daftykins> haha yeah my client did too
[18:48] <diddledan> "watch out for fraud"
[18:48] <daftykins> in fact he has had a password reset email now too
[18:49] <daftykins> i need to pop up and go through any services he uses the same pass and email for and change 'em
[18:49] <diddledan> yeah my password reset email seemed to occur before they'd configured the system to recognise the reset password as "secure"
[18:49] <daftykins> as in the reset one was very basic?
[18:50] <diddledan> as in I changed it and then got prompted a few days later when logging in that I needed to change it
[18:50] <shauno> I didn't get a letter :( just an email
[18:50] <diddledan> shauno: they probably still think you're in michigan?
[18:50] <daftykins> you may still get one, they were a week apart for my client
[18:50] <daftykins> hehe that travelling shauno
[18:51] <shauno> nah I've bought lightroom since then
[18:51] <diddledan> lol
[18:52] <penguin42> how did anyone do anything before google maps?
[18:53] <diddledan> penguin42: ordnance survey
[18:54] <ali1234> ordnance survey maps are still better than gmaps
[18:54] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh but they don't do things like show you all the supermarkets in an area that you've never been to
[18:54] <ali1234> if they had any sense they'd have a online subscription thingy
[18:54] <ali1234> in fact they might well have one
[18:55] <ali1234> penguin42: sadly, neither does google maps most of the time
[18:55] <ali1234> unless you're in london, then it might
[18:55] <penguin42> ali1234: Well it's just apparently shown it for a corner of Munich I'm due to be in on Monday
[18:58] <diddledan> I wonder what proportion of people use gmaps purely to look up places they know to point and say "look, it's on the internet!" or "look, that's my car!" or "look, that's my husband coming out of that adult shop......he's dead!"
[18:58] <daftykins> XD
[18:58] <daftykins> i'm sure Google knows
[18:59] <shauno> or "I've forgotten where the Dakotas are, but I'm too embarassed to ask"
[18:59] <penguin42> diddledan: Actually the new Apple Maps stuff is pretty damn neat - have a play if you get a chance in a shop etc - they've got some type of polygonal overlay with heights - very odd/realistic/revealing
[19:00] <diddledan> shauno: I don't think I ever knew the answer to that one
[19:00] <shauno> I do wish they had more data layers available though.  I was looking for something the other day, and ended up getting bogged down in govt landuse-surveys instead :/
[19:02] <shauno> the 'new maps' seem to be going the opposite direction through
[19:05] <shauno> never did figure that out either.  how do you run copper to a site when the customer claims they only have a po box?
[19:05] <penguin42> OS coordinates?
[19:06] <shauno> it's in the states .. they have a weird system for rural addressing, that no-one seems to know
[19:06] <penguin42> 3 yards due west from the last cactus along the ....
[19:07] <shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Land_Survey_System   this, which I'd never heard of.  but is a requirement for fixed lines in rural areas, for silly reasons  (the line has to be registered with E911, even though it's being run as a data pair, not voice)
[19:14] <neuro> penguin42: by "polygonal overlay with heights", do you mean the 3D view?
[19:27] <diddledan> apple have some pretty high-res photography on their maps thing
[19:28] <daftykins> i should hope so!
[19:28] <daftykins> my friend used to work at our local mapping company though, he used to tell us what Google were like for asking about map data
[19:29] <daftykins> they phone up trying to get it for free
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> of course they want it for free :)
[19:29] <daftykins> every Guernsey mapping flight costs about £60k apparently
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> they're a company. Never hurts to ask.
[19:30] <diddledan> if they can get it for free it means they don't have to charge so much to their advertising partners for the same service - or provide more of a service for the same cost - or pocket the difference (this is most likely)
[19:31] <neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/144lqc7qkedtquj/Screenshot%202013-11-26%2019.30.51.png
[19:31] <daftykins> heh
[19:31] <diddledan> neuro: nice - it doesn't work for amazingstoke, however :-p
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: amazingstoke eh? 8-)
[19:32] <daftykins> i like that name :D
[19:32] <neuro> you're right, it doesn't
[19:32] <neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6gr4n6utplyu0k/Screenshot%202013-11-26%2019.32.33.png
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> doesn't even work for Amsterdam and Rotterdam
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> while Google Earth does have those in 3D-ish
[19:34] <diddledan> hamster jam
[19:35] <diddledan> tasty
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: only when we're not working
[19:35] <penguin42> neuro: It's a rather false 3d-view - it sometimes works and you can see the polygons and yeh
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: that's the 21st century version of "Shopped, I can see by the pixels, and I've seen some shops in my time" etc.
[19:37] <neuro> works very well for glasgow ;) https://www.dropbox.com/s/m9ajdb03p0elsne/Screenshot%202013-11-26%2019.37.18.png
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/this-looks-shopped
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> neuro: is that the website or the Earth app?
[19:37] <neuro> neither
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> .. what is it then?
[19:38] <neuro> Maps on OS X
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> neuro: ah.. can you try Amsterdam then?
[19:38]  * MartijnVdS was trying Google maps
[19:38] <neuro> :(
[19:38] <neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/69wcd1sek183242/Screenshot%202013-11-26%2019.38.51.png
[19:39] <MartijnVdS> flat as a pancake! ;)
[19:39] <MartijnVdS> just like IRL
[19:39] <neuro> :)
[19:39] <penguin42> neuro: It's interesting if you zoom in on a suburb with lots of houses - you see things like cars smushed over a few polygons
[19:40] <neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/y0stravsm6h4bww/Screenshot%202013-11-26%2019.40.34.png
[19:41] <neuro> it's artifacts of the lidar mapping
[19:41] <penguin42> nod
[19:41] <penguin42> certainly very neat
[19:41] <neuro> it's a great idea, because then you don't have to build 3D models of every building, ever, like Google were doing for Google Earth
[19:41] <neuro> but at the moment the fidelity seems a bit low in places
[19:42] <diddledan> lidar?! that's not even a real thing :-p
[19:42] <neuro> erm, ok?
[19:42] <diddledan> next you'll be saying we've been to the moon
[19:43] <neuro> oh, good
[19:43] <neuro> i was seconds away from posting a "can't tell if ..." image
[19:43] <diddledan> lidar is something they invented for that startrek episode where harry or tom (voyager) met their idol
[19:43] <shauno> you get used to him.  it does border on selective deafness at times though
[19:43] <neuro> lol
[19:44] <diddledan> "the lidar scanners are recording" I believe was a key phrase
[19:44] <neuro> you do realise ... no, wait, i'm being trolled
[19:44] <neuro> STAND DOWN, BRAIN
[19:46] <shauno> why do all the pi cases hug its figure so much?  I'm looking for something that makes it a tad more presentable
[19:46] <daftykins> what kinda use-case?
[19:46] <neuro> BYO?
[19:46] <penguin42> shauno: Because it's got connectors on a few of the sides so it has to match them?
[19:47] <shauno> yeah, I'm looking at tiny cables to break connectors out to sensible places.  it's going under the TV, so usb front, everything else back, would be ideal
[19:48] <penguin42> yeh and those connectors are quite costly when you add them all up
[19:48] <penguin42> and you have to mount them etc, where as if you just hug the board you just need simple slots
[19:48] <shauno> at the moment its just going wherever the ethernet cable wants it to go
[19:49] <shauno> tempted to find a heaver hdmi cable just to weigh it down
[19:50] <penguin42> shauno: This should do the trick (free postage!) http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0028RZ738/ref=gb1h_img_c-1_8827_934651e2?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1EM3DDS0P5RWW0ZVRJ6E&pf_rd_i=161428031&pf_rd_p=449478827
[19:50] <diddledan> that's the problem with the pi - it's too small and light
[19:50] <neuro> and my wallet's too small for my fifties, and my diamond shoes are too tight
[19:50] <neuro> ;)
[19:51] <diddledan> penguin42: £5.99 on lightning deal
[19:51] <penguin42> diddledan: That's where I linked from, it said 5.99-25.99 on the lightning deal page
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> shipping is going to be expensive on that I guess
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: depends on the weight
[19:52] <neuro> btw, you kids know you can trim the chaff off of amazon URLs, right? http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0028RZ738
[19:52] <penguin42> yeh but that takes effort
[19:52]  * MartijnVdS already ordered a new Logitech Harmony set today, €25 cheaper than I can get it in .nl
[19:52] <neuro> which one?
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009HPFUGI
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> neuro: no wait, that's an SD card which currently has a deal going
[19:53] <neuro> hee
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> the Logitech thing is http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00C80JGGO
[19:54] <neuro> oh right, that
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> neuro: my current Harmony is 5ish years old, battery is almost dead.
[19:54] <neuro> i has one of these: http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/product/harmony-touch
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> I have the "Harmony One" atm
[19:55] <neuro> yeah i had a harmony one til it died on it's arse
[19:55] <neuro> that reminds me, i need to programme my touch for the xbox one
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> popey: Marmime salt & pepper set will go into "black friday sale" mode in 19 minutes
[19:55] <neuro> they made a big thing about it working already, so i assume the profile is available
[19:56] <neuro> i am not looking at the lightning deals until i get paid in the morning ;)
[19:56] <daftykins> after Panorama i feel almost bad to shop at Amazon...
[19:56] <penguin42> neuro: Nothing has actually made me buy any of them - but there again I'm very tight
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> neuro: I got paid this morning ;)
[19:57] <neuro> i was tempted by Battlefield 4 for PC for 23 quid this morning, but decided against it
[19:57] <neuro> i've already spent 95 quid on it for the xbox one
[19:58] <ali1234> 95 pounds? whaaaaaaat?
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: probably 1 game
[20:01] <neuro> ali1234: £54.99 for the download off the Xbox store, £39.99 for Battlefield Premium
[20:01] <ali1234> how can they charge £54.99 for a download?
[20:01] <ali1234> and it's not even the full game?
[20:01] <ali1234> whaaaaaaaaaat
[20:01] <neuro> eh?
[20:01] <neuro> it is the full game
[20:02] <ali1234> why did you have to pay an extra £39.99 for premium then?
[20:02] <neuro> i didn't "have" to pay
[20:02] <ali1234> what do you get?
[20:02] <neuro> BF4 Premium gives you access to all the available and planned BF4 DLC packs, plus some other perks and events
[20:03] <neuro> you're pre-purchasing the DLC at a discount basically, and getting some small goodies along with it
[20:04] <ali1234> a discount??
[20:04] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh just think how little #39.99 is
[20:04] <penguin42> I mean heck, it's nothing.....
[20:04] <ali1234> do not want
[20:04] <neuro> 5 DLC packs at probably £13 each
[20:05] <neuro> ali1234: no-one is forcing you to buy it ;)
[20:05] <neuro> oh yeah, and Premium members get DLC packs two weeks before non-Premium users
[20:05] <neuro> so we get head starts on new maps
[20:06] <ali1234> so it's pay to win as well, nice
[20:06] <ali1234> this is everything that is wrong with video games today
[20:06] <neuro> um, ok
[20:07] <neuro> i think you're conflating "early access" with "free to play"
[20:07] <ali1234> no, i'm merely suggesting that paying more money gives you an advantage in the game
[20:07] <neuro> for a week, maybe
[20:08] <neuro> then everyone else is as good as you on the newer maps
[20:08] <directhex> it's a real trend though
[20:08] <neuro> but there's no requirement to buy the maps at all
[20:08] <neuro> you can stick with the base game if you like
[20:09] <directhex> "freemium" games introduced the idea of giving you the base content for free, and charging for everything extra. pay-per-gun, pay-per-level, whatever. popular on smartphone games and MMOs
[20:09] <ali1234> i think i'll give it a miss...
[20:09] <neuro> ali1234: no-one was forcing you ;)
[20:09] <directhex> turns out you make more money with free-to-play than with a subscription fee
[20:10] <directhex> sadly a modern trend is to give the freemium microtransactions on top of full-price games. buy in-game currency in your racing game rather than racing the lower tiers, etc
[20:10] <daftykins> kinda ruins the game if it gives benefits to the richer though
[20:11] <neuro> yeah, you're thinking of catch up packs
[20:11] <neuro> like "unlock all the weapons now for £8!" or "unlock all unlockable cars now for £12!"
[20:11] <ali1234> daftykins: not if you're rich, which unfortunately is the only customers that publishers care about
[20:11] <directhex> yep
[20:11] <neuro> scared the hell out of us when playing battlefield 3
[20:11] <directhex> welcome to the future
[20:12] <directhex> please enjoy your stay
[20:12] <neuro> noob ranked players rocking about with USAS12 shotguns and M98 Barretts
[20:12] <neuro> but then again, getting access to unlockable things doesn't necessarily make you a good player
[20:13] <daftykins> no, but a non-even playing field makes me a very angry person
[20:13] <directhex> not if the game is carefully balanced
[20:13] <ali1234> but it does effectively lock you out of the game if you're neither extremely skilled nor rich enough to buy the stuff
[20:13] <directhex> e.g. in TF2, most of the unlockable weapons are worse than the base ones, unless you're a very skilled player anyway
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> but they look better
[20:13] <neuro> hats! :)
[20:14] <neuro> ali1234: no, it doesn't
[20:14] <neuro> ali1234: a skilled player can still compete with basic weapons
[20:14] <ali1234> neuro: but an unskilled player can't
[20:14] <neuro> so they'd suck anyway
[20:14] <ali1234> neuro: an unskilled player cannot compete with other unskilled players with better equipment, nor can they compete with skilled players with base equipment
[20:15] <ali1234> and guess what... everyone starts off unskilled
[20:15] <neuro> not really
[20:15] <neuro> unless it's a completely new style of game, there will always be pre-learned skills to utilise
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: give n00bs a DOOM (1) style BFG9000s and they'll win ;)
[20:16] <popey> MartijnVdS: ooh
[20:16] <neuro> MartijnVdS: but skilled players will route around that ;)
[20:16] <ali1234> i'm pretty sure that people aren't born with FPS abilities
[20:16] <neuro> ali1234: then you're at a disadvantage anyway, regardless of the equipment you have in game
[20:16] <popey> bah, all claimed
[20:16] <davmor2> ali1234: speak for yourself, it's called life :D
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> popey: join the waitlist
[20:17] <neuro> and anyway, the point of Battlefield is that it's a team game, so surrounding yourself with "better" players means you can survive longer
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> popey: it works -- I got my Harmony set like that
[20:18] <popey> #381 Your place on the waiting list
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> :(
[20:18] <popey> POOR	 	Your chance of getting this deal
[20:18] <neuro> lol
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: stay on there though.. those things only stay in peoples' baskets for 15 minutes
[20:19] <popey> k
[20:22]  * popey lols at the OCD people on C4
[20:23] <diplo> Anyone help with some code please ( python ) trying to teach myself. Will pastebin in a sec. Basically got a large dir of images with lots of sub dirs and want to create a .thumbnail in each dir
[20:24]  * penguin42 lols at the Amazon deal list - very random, kind of like cpc catalogues; a toaster next to a laptop, next to a PS3
[20:24] <diplo> Find for the first run but if I run it twice ( same script will create the thumbnails ) creates another sub dir
[20:24] <daftykins> penguin42: :D
[20:25] <daftykins> penguin42: is this the Black Friday deals bit?
[20:25] <penguin42> nod
[20:25] <diplo> http://pastebin.com/BMiKqr1k
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: the complete works of Haydn..
[20:28] <neuro> diplo: i'd do that in a simple bash script, but that's just me ;)
[20:28] <diplo> Tryinh to learn python, may come to bash yet :P
[20:28] <neuro> :D
[20:28] <diplo> trying*
[20:28] <neuro> rootdir = ...
[20:29] <neuro> but then you use root thereafter
[20:29] <daftykins> wowzer, £165 for a PS3 and Ass. Creed IV to VAT free land
[20:29] <neuro> not rootdir?
[20:29]  * neuro sniggers at "Ass Creed"
[20:29] <daftykins> ;)
[20:29] <daftykins> Creed of the Ass, neuro
[20:29] <daftykins> donkey club
[20:29]  * neuro shudders
[20:29] <neuro> is that for the 4GB PS3 though?
[20:30] <daftykins> 500GB
[20:30] <neuro> wow
[20:30] <daftykins> i already have an xbox and don't plan to get the game though
[20:30] <neuro> i never did get into the assassin's creed games
[20:30] <diplo> rootdir is the dir, os walk seperates it into subdirs and the original dir. Issue is it creates /srv/images/kids/.thumb fine but then does /srv/images/kids/.thumb/.thumb on second run
[20:30] <daftykins> 1 and 2 were great - after that they're just kinda like map pack cash-ins
[20:30] <directhex> ac1 is a tech demo, very hard to get into
[20:31] <daftykins> yeah 1 was pretty repetitive
[20:31] <directhex> ac2 is awesome, but it really benefits rom some of the background story from ac1
[20:31] <neuro> diplo: yeah but your code defines 'rootdir' but then references 'root' thereafter
[20:31] <directhex> brotherhood is a big expansion pack sold standalone
[20:31] <neuro> diplo: shouldn't it be 'rootdir' all the way through?
[20:31] <directhex> revelations is a small expansion pack sold standalone
[20:31] <directhex> 3 is a boring twat jumping near trees
[20:31] <neuro> lol
[20:32] <diddledan> diplo: in pseudocode you need to check that the folder name you're working on isn't .thumb
[20:33] <diddledan> so maybe a regex or an endsWith if such a thing exists
[20:34] <diddledan> if not root.endswith('/.thumb')
[20:34] <neuro> cute
[20:34] <diddledan> http://docs.python.org/2/library/stdtypes.html says that's valid
[20:35] <diddledan> ideally you'd use the system-defined separator though rahter than assuming it's /
[20:37] <diplo> diddledan: hah, I've got it.. I was using if not rather if
[20:37] <diplo> :)
[20:38] <diddledan> for your creation of the path use os.path.join() and to work out the separator you'd use os.pathsep
[20:38] <ali1234> diplo: os.walk is a mess
[20:38] <ali1234> try to avoid it if at all possible
[20:39] <ali1234> ie by writing a python script that acts on one file and then doing find . -exec myscript.y {} \;
[20:39] <diddledan> (I don't know much about python at all, but I can google like a posessed devil)
[20:39] <diplo> Shall I just use something else :)
[20:40] <diddledan> :-p
[20:40] <diddledan> diplo: I think the if not was correct
[20:41] <diddledan> the code as you pasted it checks whether there's a dir at root/.thumb and if not then create it
[20:42] <diddledan> however your walker will walk down into any .thumb dirs so root will contain the .thumb so you'll check whether there's a dir at (origroot)/.thumb.thumb and if not then create it
[20:42] <diddledan> (origroot)/.thumb/.thumb I mean
[20:45] <diplo> yeah I said that above
[20:45] <diplo> Ta
[20:48] <daftykins> parked up beside the cheap supermarket by me today: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cuizjt29anbuvcv/porsche.jpg
[20:48] <neuro> boxster slumming it :)
[20:50] <daftykins> indeed!
[20:50] <daftykins> enjoy your 35mph max, Porsche owner
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> \o/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007lqrh
[20:53] <neuro> aargh
[20:54] <neuro> sorry, football
[21:48] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[21:49] <neuro> eey oop