[00:15] After a no-change backport and playing with it on 12.04, I am warming to whiskermenu in lieu of the default. [00:23] skellat: good to hear! [00:28] ali1234, pushed your patch minus the comments since they aren't needed with the code gone. Thanks! [00:28] eric_the_idiot: also, i think xfdesktop should not set ESETROOT [00:29] yeah, did you want me to push a patch or did you (since you did all the work)? [00:31] https://github.com/ali1234/xfdesktop/commit/40ffaaef75865271c5d9695711905415ca8fdab1 [00:33] patch may not apply clean due to the debugging stuff i added in a previous patch [00:34] before i go to bed, i shouldn't read /. but otoh this is a nice read: http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4493819&cid=45543527 [00:35] (some slashdotters seem to love xubuntu :)) [00:45] ali1234, pushed as well, thanks again. [00:45] thanks. now we wait for the one guy who uses some really broken terminal emulator to come and complain his fake transparent background doesn't work any more :P [00:46] yeah, I noticed in xfdesktop's git logs that esetroot was disabled once before [00:50] hmm... i'll check that out [01:54] eric_the_idiot: ok so checking those old commits reminded me of something else that i forgot [01:55] if the code from commit 160a1fd22 has gone, it should go back in [07:50] elfy: I did a 64-bit iso test, do I get a gold star? (that's not the thing I had to tell you, still forgot that) [07:50] you get a gold star :) [07:51] \o/ [07:52] but I will take it back again ... [07:52] :p [07:53] Could give a copper one, though they might be worth more not too long. :P [07:53] lol [07:54] * elfy is aware of the irony in pushing people to make sure they report tests when he's failing badly at finding time [07:54] but carries on regardless [07:54] testing is boring :) [07:54] so I'm going to try hard this cycle to work it into my day in a non disruptive way, most of the time is just spent waiting anyway [07:56] yeah, better put on some good music in the background... [07:56] (preferably elevator music, e.g. the girl from ipanema in an instrumental version looped for hours) [07:56] pleia2: should do exploratory stuff instead then - there's a mail in the sidelines waiting to be sent about that :) [07:57] ochosi has an odd sense of humour ... [07:57] elfy: thanks :) [07:57] elfy: hah, well, the issue is that I have too much to do already :) seems iso testing is low bandwidth enough that I should be able to do it while working on Real Things [07:58] anyway, xubuntu-website bugs are all tidy now, I should get some sleepies so I can be up in 8 hours for our meeting [08:03] night night :) [08:03] pleia2: testing something like terminal has got to be easier than an iso though ... just saying ;) [08:07] My current hardware is too broken to ISO test, i run 14.04 to try and make up for that [08:09] Noskcaj: well - there's more than iso testing - there's package testing - which sounds just right for that scenario :p [08:17] elfy, I try to do some, but i spend most of my time packaging random stuff [08:18] :) [09:16] Does anyone have time to try and see what's wrong with the extensions in https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/gthumb/3.2.5/+merge/196783 [09:24] It doesn't make it to debian/tmp/ if that changes anything [10:02] morning all [10:03] morning [10:03] elfy, ready to be merged: https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/ubuntu-manual-tests/+merge/196989 [10:03] hi ochosi [13:43] ali1234: forgot to bookmark the test instruction (ubuntu pastebin), but I've compiled the bgfix2 branch and xfdesktop and the brief black flicker is now gone [13:43] brainwash: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6486852/ [13:43] so more more flicker madness [13:44] you said that you were able to reproduce the gtk theme problem of xfdesktop? [13:44] still hapenns for me [13:44] happens [13:45] what did you mean with "more more flicker madness" exactly? [13:46] no more [13:46] still a bit sleepy :( [13:46] but I really like the flicker-free transition [13:46] feels like using a modern OS [13:49] :) [13:49] i hope we can get everything of that into 14.04 [13:50] the xfwm4 patch will probably have to be cherry-picked [13:50] yeah, luckily we got "plenty" of time left until release [13:51] so it's not a last minute thing [13:51] indeed [13:52] i'd wish 4.12 would be released in time for 14.04 [13:52] but i fear that [13:52] 's whishful thinking [14:10] some good press here: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/11/expect-xubuntu-14-04-lts?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+d0od+%28OMG!+Ubuntu!%29 [14:15] hehe, light-locker "... fixes a number some outstanding session-locking issues" [14:15] or wait, does it in fact for the first time really lock lubuntu's session? :D [14:23] ochosi, can I ask you a couple of questions about GTK3 indicators and light-locker documentation? [14:23] jjfrv8: sure [14:23] just ask away [14:23] We've got them listed on the blueprint as blocked. Can you enlighten me on what the issues there are? [14:24] ali1234: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6489704/ [14:24] jjfrv8: well the gtk3 indicator stuff hasn't been uploaded yet [14:24] why not? [14:24] and light-locker has been uploaded by an ubuntu-desktop dev, but it's not yet part of our seed [14:25] brainwash: because no-one has packaged it yet [14:25] (and don't look at me cause i'm not a packager) [14:25] but it's an important change [14:25] it really should be packaged and made available for easy testing [14:26] they changed the indicator startup mechanics [14:26] every indicator has an autostart entry now [14:27] so the workaround cannot be applied anymore (see bug report) [14:27] ochosi, once they are ready for testing, will we work the docs something like we did with parole? DokuWiki? [14:28] brainwash: we'll see, if it's a new change it's possible that the indicator-plugin won't work with them anymore (again) [14:29] ochosi: ok [14:29] jjfrv8: well, e.g. light-locker won't really need much documentation [14:29] and the gtk3-indicators will work like the gtk2 indicators [14:29] ali1234: login -> kill xfdesktop -> kill xfdesktop -> lock screen [14:30] and gpu going crazy like always after unlocking the screen [14:30] jjfrv8: well actually the indicator-plugin is an xfce project, so we could do it as we did with parole. in case we don't put it in xubuntu's offline documentation [14:32] jjfrv8: what would be helpful though is docs for xfdesktop, as there are quite a few changes in that and we ship it [14:32] ochosi, do you think we should remove the light-locker item from the blueprint? [14:32] jjfrv8: i've talked to eric before and he'd be very grateful if we help him with the docs [14:32] well the thing is, as long as light-locker works, you won't notice it [14:32] you go to "lock screen" and you end up at the greeter [14:33] when you unlock your session from there, light-locker is gone again [14:33] and that's about it [14:33] it's supposed to stay "invisible" [14:33] that would work for me :) [14:33] so not sure what to document there... [14:35] I can add an item for xfdesktop. I assume that would go with the xfce stuff? [14:35] yeah [14:36] basically update http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/start [14:36] to reflect 4.11 [14:36] you can install the current xfdesktop that we'll want to document from the Xubuntu-dev 4.12 PPA [14:37] this time, as it is a core component, screenshots will have to be taken with the xfce-theme [14:37] but xfdesktop is still gtk2, so there won't be the same problems we had with parole [14:38] how would we go about editing the existing version? Would you set up a staging area again? [14:38] yup, i think that worked well last time [14:39] so you'll take care of that? [14:39] yup, i can send you and slickymaster or whoever wants to join a link as soon as it's set up [14:39] i'll probably leave out the current screenshots, as they will have to be updated anyway... [14:40] very good. thanks. I think that's it for now. === Mapley is now known as Maplez === Maplez is now known as Mapley [14:41] cool, maybe i'll manage before the meeting today [14:41] then we can throw the link in the minutes [14:41] ! [14:51] jjfrv8: not sure i'll be here for all of the meeting, so just to be sure, this is the link ;) http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs [14:52] great. we'll get started on it. [14:54] awesome [14:55] i think in the advanced part there won't be many changes [14:55] k [14:55] prefs and usage need the most attention [14:55] i'll take care of the bugs-section [14:55] gotta talk to eric and nick first whether they're fine if we do that parole-style [14:56] ok, will wait to hear back on that. [14:56] knome: i can only be around for the first 20mins of the meeting. would be nice if i could get one talking point then (wallpapers) [14:57] jjfrv8: eerr, i actually only referred to the bugs-section, i think the rest can be simply done as we've handled it before [14:57] improve and correct the stuff that's there [14:57] (well in this case it should be easier as there is already more info available) [14:57] oh, okay [14:58] meeting is in 1 hour according to my memory [14:58] actually docs.xfce still points towards xfce4.10, but i think we can set up parallel docs for 4.12 already [14:59] GridCube: yeah, unfortunately, it's 1hr too late for me today :/ [14:59] :( [15:00] well, no biggie, luckily we also talk outside of meetings [15:02] P: true that [15:29] brainwash: what is on the log when you lock the screen? [15:30] hey ali1234 [15:31] i think it would be ideal if we could start testing 14.04 asap with gtk3 indicators, to see whether they still work (who knows, maybe they're changing stuff about them again, like pretty much every cycle...) [15:32] yes [15:33] brainwash mentioned something about each indicator having it's own desktop file now [15:34] eh no, autostart entry [15:34] (misremembered) [15:34] although that much should be ok with the current indicator-plugin, iirc [15:35] that doesn't matter - they use dbus activation [15:37] actually bluesabre brought up an interesting matter recently [15:37] he has one of them fancy hidpi displays now on his laptop [15:37] so the 24px panel is too tiny [15:38] when we last talked about indicator-icons, i remember you saying that they aren't provided in larger sizes by the service, do i remember that correctly? [15:41] yeah [15:41] they are provided as pixmaps afaik [15:42] actually i'm not sure how that even works with themes [15:43] ochosi: did you notice on brainwash' log that the second time lightdm runs, it runs on display :0? [15:44] no, that's quite weird though [15:44] i mean that's against lightdm's design [15:44] i should have added a thing that tells you what mode lightdm is in too [15:44] true, that'd be helpful [15:44] although you'll see it on the login-button label [15:44] it either says "login" or "unlock" depending on whether it's in lock-mode or not [15:45] (if you meant that kind of mode) [15:45] yeah but i can't see that in the log :) [15:45] indeed :) [15:46] so is 14.04 actually viable for testing yet? [15:47] yes [15:48] ali1234, http://xubuntu.org/news/help-us-test-xubuntu-14-04-lts/ [15:48] hahaha, that doesn't mean it's viable at all [15:48] ochosi, sorry to interrupt, but have you looked at the sitemap on bluesabre's wiki? It looks like people are dumping stuff there. [15:49] jjfrv8: oh, no i haven't [15:49] thanks for the pointer, lemme check that [15:49] holy crap, you're right :p [15:51] might be a good idea to lock the wiki down and restrict access to the ones who should use it... [15:51] yup, looks like it. [15:52] bluesabre will have to do that i think [15:53] ali1234, ochosi: it's "unlock" [15:54] booted the system, locking the screen actually worked this time, did a relog, screen corruption again [15:54] on top of that, the greeter flicker between two themes/wallpapers [15:54] flickers/switches [15:55] when I move my mouse [15:56] quite funky :) [15:56] what does the log say? [15:56] I can confirm, that locking the screen does not cause any visual trouble after boot [15:57] that's pretty much exactly what i would expect to happen if the greeter ran over the existing session [15:58] give me a moment [15:59] pleia2, good morning [15:59] brb [15:59] * skellat is ready for a meeting this time around [16:00] o/ [16:00] #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting [16:00] Meeting started Thu Nov 28 16:00:37 2013 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [16:00] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [16:00] pop up your hand up if you're around [16:00] o/ [16:00] o/ [16:00] o/ [16:00] o/ [16:01] o/ [16:01] cool :) [16:01] ochosi, GridCube, brainwash: hullo [16:01] #topic Items carried on [16:01] o/ [16:01] #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting [16:01] #action knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week [16:01] ACTION: knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week [16:01] TBD [16:01] #action micahg to talk to barry about python2.7/3 situation [16:01] ACTION: micahg to talk to barry about python2.7/3 situation [16:01] micahg, status? :) [16:02] oops [16:02] heh, np [16:02] I think I forgot [16:02] let's carry that on then [16:02] o/ [16:02] #action micahg to upload whiskermenu to xfce PPAs [16:02] ACTION: micahg to upload whiskermenu to xfce PPAs [16:02] micahg, ? [16:02] (sorry, that was a late popping up of the hand) [16:03] or was that done by mr_pouit [16:03] whiskermenu is in archive for trusty [16:03] #info Done, whiskermenu is in the archive for trusty. [16:03] #subtopic Strategy Document reviewing [16:03] 4.10 PPA times out for me [16:04] lp ftw [16:04] I've got whiskermenu backported in ppa:skellat/tests [16:04] o/ [16:04] And am playing with it on 12.04.3 at the moment [16:04] I could upload whiskermenu right now if someone tells me which releases and if it's the 4.12 PPA [16:04] skellat: there should also be an official PPA by the whiskermenu dev [16:04] have people had time to look at the new strategy document? [16:04] ochosi, micahg: can you get to that after the meeting or in PM; thanks for taking care though :) [16:05] i have read it before and i don't have anything to say against it [16:05] knome, I have, but it was a while ago. I'm okay with it. [16:05] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-November/009413.html [16:05] that's the link to the mail that links the new branch [16:05] I have not had a chance to review it [16:05] sent on nov 5 [16:05] micahg, basically: [16:05] (and others:) [16:06] 1) only allow members of ~xubuntu-team to vote for the new XPL [16:06] 2) strip out the process descriptions, move to wiki/Xubuntu/Processes (done already) [16:06] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes [16:06] pleia2 can confirm i'm not tricking you, she worked with the later update with me [16:07] indeed [16:07] knome didn't want to be xpl forever, so we left that part out [16:07] i'm also fine with it [16:07] yes, as i said, i've read it, i don't see why its needed or relevant, but im ok with the changes [16:07] we are much shorter now, and i hope the SD can be much more useful this way for daily development [16:08] let's vote. [16:08] I don't want to get any shorter :P [16:08] #vote Approve proposed Strategy Document (+1) or not (-1); members of -team can vote [16:08] Please vote on: Approve proposed Strategy Document (+1) or not (-1); members of -team can vote [16:08] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [16:08] +1 [16:08] +1 received from ochosi [16:08] +0 [16:08] +0 received from knome [16:09] +1 [16:09] +1 received from jjfrv8 [16:09] +0 [16:09] +0 received from GridCube [16:09] +1 [16:09] +1 received from pleia2 [16:09] -1 [16:09] -1 received from skellat [16:09] skellat, can you argument? [16:09] +1 [16:09] +1 received from micahg [16:09] We need to loosen up unsuitable packages a little considering the amount of stuff Ubuntu mainline is producing in Python [16:10] Which is an interpreted language [16:10] skellat, as we've discussed, we should do that review later after these changes are up [16:10] Okay [16:10] what we're voting is "are the changes okay", not "is this the perfect SD" [16:10] i would imagine there is always room for improvement [16:10] My vote won't change the outcome anyhow :-) [16:11] mrh [16:11] just wanted to ask for arguments [16:11] +0 [16:11] +0 received from micahg [16:11] micahg, ? [16:11] what, so everyone's now +0-ing because their vote doesn't matter? :D [16:11] I had the idea of voting on something I haven't read...I'm not a member of Congress... [16:11] s/had/hate/ [16:11] seriously, [16:12] you have had 23 days to review the changes [16:12] ochosi: Nah, there are already enough positive votes that one negative by me won't block it [16:12] strategy documents are boring :) [16:12] ^ [16:12] * ochosi goes to the closet, gets the big elephant whip and hands it to knome [16:12] skellat: i know, i was just kidding ;) [16:13] I think I've worked at least 150 hours in the past 23 days... [16:13] i can allow for one more week if micah promises he will get to read the document by that time. [16:13] micahg: hugs [16:13] micahg, i understand, and i'm sorry, but ultimately we need to keep things rolling. the XPL-voting change has been pending for months [16:13] micahg: ouch, i hope at least your bankaccount reflects that! :> [16:13] #endvote [16:13] Voting ended on: Approve proposed Strategy Document (+1) or not (-1); members of -team can vote [16:13] Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:3 [16:13] Motion carried [16:13] ochosi: unfortunately not... [16:13] knome: We'll need to ask lderan to add an "abandonvote" function eventually to meetingology [16:14] #info motion not carried. one more week to review. [16:14] knome: you have enuogh votes without me here [16:14] skellat: shall add it :) [16:14] lderan, or just make #undo work on votes [16:15] not if we want -team quorum. [16:15] give me a couple minutes and I can diff/read [16:15] okay [16:15] both versions are in the branch [16:15] thanks micahg [16:15] and i'll make sure i word the vote better [16:16] knome: if you restate your vote, it's an effective #undo [16:16] micahg, we're talking about undoing a whole vote, not a single persons [16:17] oh, haha [16:17] ok folks, i'm out of the door with one foot [16:18] knome: mind if i say something to the wallpapers and then run off? [16:18] #subtopic Something about wallpapers [16:19] :) [16:19] #info The wallpaper contest has been running for a short while, but we already have quite a few accepted submissions: [16:19] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/CommunityWallpapers/Accepted [16:20] while i think it's enough to already call it a success, i'd like to encourage everyone in the team to point to the call for wallpapers again [16:20] and also encourage artists whose artwork you personally like to contribute [16:20] so, all the social-media mumbo-jumbo etc. [16:21] #action knome and pleia2 to give the wallpaper contest some publicity in social media again [16:21] ACTION: knome and pleia2 to give the wallpaper contest some publicity in social media again [16:21] righty, thanks [16:21] gotta take off, will read the rest when i'm back [16:21] ochosi, one sec [16:22] ochosi, would your vote be +1 for the SD? [16:22] just double-checking. [16:22] i already voted on that [16:22] so yeah, still +1 [16:22] bbl [16:23] thanks ochosi [16:25] knome: next! [16:25] just a sec [16:26] #subtopic Strategy Document reviewing [16:26] #vote Approve the proposed changes to the Strategy Document (+1) or not (-1, please argument) [16:26] Please vote on: Approve the proposed changes to the Strategy Document (+1) or not (-1, please argument) [16:26] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [16:26] better wording, eh? [16:26] +1 [16:26] +1 received from pleia2 [16:27] +1 [16:27] +1 received from jjfrv8 [16:27] +1 [16:27] +1 received from GridCube [16:27] +1 since we can address the Python-based mainline stuff question at a later time [16:27] +1 since we can address the Python-based mainline stuff question at a later time received from skellat [16:27] +0, want to give the community a word on changes. [16:27] +0, want to give the community a word on changes. received from knome [16:27] there is one more +1 from ochosi [16:27] * GridCube is ok with the changes just doesnt understand why they are so important [16:28] GridCube: I think making it shorter is important so people actually read it [16:28] well, yes, that is true [16:28] GridCube: and re: XPL - currently votes come from a completely open team, very few of whom have insight into team workings, this is very odd [16:28] ultimately the SD should be a guide in day-to-day development of xubuntu [16:28] +1 [16:28] +1 received from micahg [16:29] unless we have a clear idea where we are going, or can't refer to those rules, we're running around like headless chicken and it's really hard for new contributors to jump in and grasp what we are steering our development by [16:29] #endvote [16:29] Voting ended on: Approve the proposed changes to the Strategy Document (+1) or not (-1, please argument) [16:29] Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1 [16:29] Motion carried [16:30] hooray!! [16:30] 6 is quorum, 5-0-1 is approved [16:30] I see, i see, yes, those where the reasons why im OK with the changes, i just fail to see how the old SD is inflecting something on us, even if they have voice, they never choose to make it notice [16:30] :) [16:30] #topic Team updates [16:30] but anyway, :) [16:30] #info ochosi and knome have been working with the wallpaper contest [16:31] #info knome and Unit193 have been looking at docs translations [16:31] #info whiskermenu is backported for P, Q, R, and S in ppa:skellat/tests for those who wish to try it [16:31] can docs be translated trhough launchpad? [16:31] #info pleia2 completed triaging website bugs this week [16:31] #info elfy has been working with organizing QA for the T cycle [16:31] GridCube, yes. [16:31] #info whiskermenu is backported in the Xfce 4.10 PPA [16:32] #info pleia2 put out a call for VM-based tests to determine our actual minimum requirements [16:32] #info Xfce 4.10 PPA backport was done by mr_pouit [16:32] #info you can translate the docs at: https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs (note that several changes and additions are going to land later this cycle) [16:33] #info Out of vUDS-1311, we may have the opportunity to ask local communities to "adopt a package" for work or testing during this cycle. LoCo Council hasn't fully set this up yet, though. [16:33] skellat, will you follow up on that? [16:34] knome: In what way? [16:34] telling us when that's set up. [16:34] :) [16:34] knome: Yes [16:34] ta [16:34] more updates? [16:34] whats the status of mugshot? [16:35] bluesabre, ? [16:35] bluesabre, also tell us about menulibre if you're around [16:37] #info after discussion with ochosi, we dropped light-locker and added xfdesktop to the documentation blueprint [16:37] so no lightdm locking? [16:37] i would imagine the goals are still as planned [16:38] GridCube: No need to write it up in documentation [16:38] no, it just doesn't need documentation [16:38] and we shouldn't use such technical names in the docs anyway [16:39] #topic Announcements [16:39] #subtopic There is a new Launchpad team ~xubuntu-qa [16:40] #info this team has currently only a social meaning, being the subteam from which people who contributed to QA can ultimately be approved to -team (per the SD) [16:40] #info if you think you should be a member in this (moderated) team, poke elfy. [16:41] #topic New and emerging items [16:41] #subtopic Meeting time reviewing [16:41] so, [16:41]