[01:08] <diddledan> I've decided that I like haxe
[01:08] <diddledan> type-safety ftw
[01:45] <daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FSBF0K6/
[01:45] <daftykins> £90 off today :O
[02:18] <diddledan> logic problems make my head hurt
[02:20] <diddledan> I need to work out if a link on a webpage (in javascript) is pointing to a location that is local vs remote - problem is it needs to cope with the various formats of url such as http:// or https:// or // or /file or just file
[02:21] <diddledan> the third one I meant to say //example.com/file
[02:23] <diddledan> I think I might have the if statement sorted now
[02:24] <diddledan> I've got: if ((domainFromRegex != siteDomain && (protocol == http:// || protocol == https:// || protocol == //)) || protocol is null
[02:26] <diddledan> that last one should be is not null
[02:26] <diddledan> oh I don't know
[02:26] <diddledan> my brian hurts
[02:26] <diddledan> I can't think clearly
[02:28] <diddledan> maybe that'll work: if regexedDomain != currentDomain && protocol != ''
[02:29] <diddledan> it's a good job I don't play with cryptography - I'd never get it to work
[02:38] <ali1234> convert the url into a canonical one first
[02:40] <ali1234> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5980682/obtaining-canonical-url-using-javascript
[02:51] <diddledan> err
[02:51] <diddledan> that doesn't do what you think it does
[02:52] <diddledan> that gets the attribute "href" from the <link> tag whose rel attribute is "canonical"
[02:52] <diddledan> absolutely nothing to do with anchors whatsoever
[07:06] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:37] <dwatkins> ello
[08:43] <MooDoo> dwatkins: ello
[08:53] <diplo> Morning all
[08:53] <MooDoo> morning diplo
[08:54] <diplo> Morning MooDoo, good start to the day ?
[08:54] <diplo> Just dropped my kids at school and now waiting for my ex girlfriends car to be picked up by the scrappers, trying to pretend I'm in the office :)
[08:54] <MooDoo> diplo: yeah not bad, I love these 7am starts :D
[08:54] <diplo> Just hope the phone doesn't ring as I haven't set that up yet :D
[08:55] <diplo> Working from 7 ?
[08:55] <MooDoo> yeah
[08:55] <diplo> :(
[08:55] <MooDoo> diplo: i love it, love this shift, I get to finish at 3:30
[08:55] <diplo> I'm up at 6:45 to get the kids ready, get them to school for 8:30 and normally to work 8:40 ish
[08:56] <MooDoo> diplo: luckly with our kids, the wife drops them off at their grans mon/tue/wed and they take them to school, we're lucky that parents/sisters etc live in the same village.
[08:57] <DJones> Bit of an unusual drive to work this morning listening to Radio 4, The word 'Ubuntu' mentioned numerous times on 'Thought for the day' in its original south african usage refering to comments made by Desmond Tutu
[08:57] <diplo> Mum and dad pick them up on Monday evenings for me and feed them, single dad means I have to do the rest :/
[08:57] <MooDoo> diplo: must be hard for you chap
[08:58] <MooDoo> DJones: means humanity to others doesn't it?
[08:58] <DJones> MooDoo: Yep
[08:59] <ali1234> i used to get up at 7:45 to be at school at 8:30
[08:59] <diplo> Only Mondays and Tuesdays so its not to bad, just my kids are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow
[08:59] <DJones> Although when they first said it, I was hoping it was going to be about open source
[08:59] <diplo> Get picked up by their mum Tuesday evenings
[08:59] <MooDoo> DJones: you can wish :D
[08:59] <MooDoo> diplo: manly pat on the back for being awesome.....
[09:02] <diplo> Hope these bloomin scrappy people turn up on time
[09:11] <MooDoo> diplo: do they need you to pick up the car?  can't they just take it?
[09:13] <diplo> Need the key, and I need to sign for it supposedly
[09:13] <diplo> Oooh and I need to take the tax disc out!
[09:16] <MooDoo> diplo: you're welcome
[09:21] <diplo> ta :)
[09:22] <diplo> Well that was worth it, it runs out the end of this month.. probably can't claim that now
[09:24] <DJones> diplo: No, has to be at least a full month left
[09:24] <diplo> :/
[09:24] <diplo> I paid for that as well! :(
[09:27] <knightwise> hey everyone
[09:27] <MartijnVdS> \o knightwise
[09:30] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy International Day of People with Disability! :-D
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> #ubuntu-uk day then?
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> (mental counts right?)
[09:32] <popey> Morning all
[09:32] <MooDoo> morning popey
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> \o
[09:33] <MooDoo> and knightwise JamesTait et al
[09:33] <foobarry> i had a dream about shuttlewroth coming round my house last night and speeding up my computer
[09:33] <foobarry> :S
[09:33] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I don't think it discriminates against people with any specific kind of disability.  I thin kthat's the point. :-P
[09:34] <knightwise> morning everyone
[09:35] <knightwise> how are you guys doing today
[09:35]  * foobarry has been winding up strikers
[09:35] <foobarry> some sort of strike today
[09:35] <JamesTait> Someone appears to have stolen 15 minutes of my morning.
[09:35] <MooDoo> foobarry: as in why you striking?
[09:35] <foobarry> MooDoo: they were asking why i was breaking a picket line LOL
[09:35] <foobarry> this aint the miners strike
[09:36] <foobarry> they seemed annoyed that i said i wasn't interested in pay
[09:36] <foobarry> of course i am , but not the way they fail to do it
[09:37] <JamesTait> Arthur Scargill got hit on the head, his head bled quite a lot and formed a scab.  When it hadn't cleared up after two weeks, he went to see the doctor.  The doctor told him not to picket.
[09:38] <foobarry> the office is rather empty today, but nobody's in the union. weird
[09:38] <MooDoo> foobarry: what you do for a living, if you don't mind me asking?
[09:39] <foobarry> the same as my friend mungbean
[09:40] <foobarry> he provides IT systems for academic research
[09:40] <JamesTait> One word, foobarry, and I was instantly transported back to my early childhood.  Living in a mining village was quite scary back then, I seem to recall.
[09:42] <foobarry> i don't think i'd be suited to working in mines
[09:42] <foobarry> or fighting in a war for that matter
[09:42] <foobarry> i could fly remote drones though
[09:43] <MooDoo> foobarry: join amazon for that ;)
[09:43] <DJones> foobarry: You better get your application in for Amazon then
[09:44] <foobarry> what if you buy a quadcopter?
[09:44] <foobarry> do they post the remote control to you after it's landed?
[09:45] <MooDoo> foobarry: it's only up to a certain weight, quad copters would be to heavy
[09:45] <DJones> I want to know how its going to put the 'we tried to deliver but you were out' card through the letter box
[09:45] <ali1234> i really hope they make that drone thing, and all the drones get stolen using GPS spoofing
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: they'll stop it then
[09:45] <MooDoo> ali1234: I suspect it was just a marketing ploy the day before cyber monday
[09:46] <ali1234> well yeah
[09:46] <DJones> And then there'll be the case of the drone trying to land on somebodys pet rotweiller thats lying down just outside the door
[09:46] <MooDoo> what if you live in a flat?
[09:47] <DJones> MooDoo: They have roofs
[09:47] <knightwise> hangin out in the tele2 datacenter in den bosch today
[09:47] <DJones> Abandoned Amazon packages on the roof of blocks of flats because nobody has a key to get up there
[09:48] <MooDoo> knightwise: got ear plugs ;)
[09:48] <foobarry> MooDoo: they could fly the quadcopter to me..
[09:49] <SuperMatt> morning peeps
[09:54] <knightwise> MooDoo: yes è
[09:54] <knightwise> I'm in a "cold alley" so its pretty chilly too
[09:55] <popey> Amazon marketing success, that drone video.
[09:56] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: morning
[09:56] <MooDoo> knightwise: ooo lovely
[09:57] <MooDoo> popey: it worked, got everyone talking about it...maybe we could implement the same for ubuntu cd's ;)
[09:58] <knightwise> Just installed 12
[09:58] <knightwise> 12.04 on my new lenovo
[09:59] <knightwise> works like a charm , but the touchpad is quirky
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> why 12.04 and not 13.10?
[09:59] <knightwise> MartijnVdS: seemed to work better
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> strange, you'd think hardware support would be better in a newer Ubuntu :)
[10:00] <knightwise> appears not .. its strange
[10:00] <knightwise> I seems to have a bug where it does not detect the touchpad at first boot
[10:00] <knightwise> then when I reboot everthing is fine
[10:01] <knightwise> laptop is a lenovo twist
[10:01] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: my XPS12 has similar issues.. if I disable the touch screen, the touchpad is fine, if I enable it, it's *very* basic (no two-finger scrolling, for example)
[10:01] <knightwise> same issue her
[10:01] <knightwise> e
[10:01] <ali1234> that is a software bug
[10:01] <knightwise> I need to look for a script to disable / enable the touchscreen
[10:02] <popey> why?
[10:02] <ali1234> the touchpad and touchscreen are completely different hardware
[10:02] <ali1234> enabling or disabling one cannot affect the operation of the other... unless the software is broken
[10:02] <MartijnVdS> It's because the touchpad and touch screen both share an I2C bus
[10:03] <knightwise> not sure what is the Matter . at first boot the touchpad doesnt work but the touchscreen does
[10:03] <knightwise> at 'reboot" they both work
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> (though the touch pad is also available on "old style" interfaces, unless I2C is initialized)
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> so: enable touchscreen -> touch pad goes to "basic mode"
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> (because there's no good I2C SYnaptics driver yet)
[10:04] <ali1234> that makes no sense
[10:04] <MartijnVdS> there are launchpad bugs about this
[10:04] <knightwise> so is there anything I can do when the touchpad doesnt work.  ? run a script or something ?
[10:04] <knightwise> would save me the trouble of rebooting
[10:04] <MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1218973
[10:05] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: ^
[10:05] <ali1234> yeah that has nothing to do with the touchscreen at all
[10:06] <knightwise> ah , so the issue is also still there in 13.10
[10:06] <ali1234> that's just the synaptics driver being rubbish
[10:06] <knightwise> ah. so hooking up a mouse would perhaps work
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-input/msg27768.html
[10:09] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: they've been fixing it in a branch called "synaptics-rmi4" or something
[10:12] <diplo> And it's gone!
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> diplo: who is?
[10:12] <diplo> Now to get on with work, my ex's car.. been waiting for scrap dealer to pick it up
[10:13] <diplo> Been sat outside my house for weeks
[10:13] <foobarry> was it a 1 yr old mercedes :P
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> is the ex in the trunk?
[10:13] <foobarry> that would be satisfying
[10:13] <foobarry> MartijnVdS: are you hans reiser?
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: no.
[10:14] <foobarry> i wonder when he gets outta jail
[10:14] <diplo> heh nope :/
[10:14] <diplo> And nah a picasa, died probably 6 weeks ago and been waiting for her to arrange it
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: he got "15 years to life"
[10:14] <foobarry> In July 2012, a jury awarded Reiser's children $60 million against their father for the death of Nina Reiser.[60] Reiser acted as his own attorney during the trial and tried to argue that he killed his wife to protect their children
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> I think there's a word for that: "Bonkers"
[10:15] <foobarry> As a result of his plea bargain, Reiser cannot appeal his conviction or sentence
[10:16] <MartijnVdS> Weird 'Murricans
[10:16] <foobarry> same as OJ then
[10:17] <foobarry> woops, OJ was acquitted
[10:17] <foobarry> In September 2007, Simpson was arrested in Las Vegas, Nevada, and charged with numerous felonies, including armed robbery and kidnapping.[3] In 2008, he was found guilty[4][5] and sentenced to 33 years' imprisonment, with a minimum of nine years without parole.[
[10:17] <foobarry> prize muppet
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> I don't understand plea bargains... you either did it, or you didn't. Punishment should be based on that. Not on how well you can argue about it?
[10:19] <popey> mitigating circumstances?
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> popey: sure, but the way plea bargaining works in the US isn't like that
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> popey: it's like "Say you did it and we'll punish you less", then even if they can't prove it, they punish you because you said you did it!
[10:20] <popey> 2021
[10:20] <popey> "Reiser will be eligible for parole in 2021 when he will be 57 years old"
[10:20] <foobarry> at laest he gets to travel
[10:21] <foobarry> he's been in 4 different prisons already
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethically_disputed_judicial_practices
[10:22] <foobarry> pretty sure in the UK you get a shorter sentence if you plead guilty
[10:26] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: inquisitorial system vs adversarial system
[10:26] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: actually, Common Law vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system)
[10:27] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:35] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon sorry for ignoring you there
[10:35] <brobostigon> MooDoo: dont worry about it, busyness can cause delay.
[10:36] <foobarry> anyone had experience with the wii motion plus adapters you get on ebay?
[10:38] <foobarry> my gold wii controller got killed by a battery leak
[10:46] <DJones> Hmmh, should I be worried as a Rugby League supporter, godaddy reported to be set to be announced as main sponsors of the top league
[10:46] <foobarry> do they have dancing girls in rugby league?
[10:46] <MooDoo> DJones: no
[10:47] <DJones> foobarry: No, thats football your thinking of, they're the ones with numbers 1-11 on their backs :)
[10:48] <foobarry> they will have dancing girls within the year then :P
[10:48] <foobarry> some of these guys on ebay shift 30,000 items a month :-|
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: sounds like hard work
[10:50] <DJones> foobarry: There are half time cheerleaders, but generally its local kids that do that
[10:50] <foobarry> sounds a bit pervy already
[10:51] <foobarry> probably what attracted the godaddy
[10:57] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:58] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[11:13] <czajkowski> aloha
[11:13] <MooDoo> hello czajkowski
[11:16] <davmor2> czajkowski: long time no type
[11:48] <DJones> Grr, stupid suppliers, ringing me up asking for payment of an invoice...which I've already emailed and asked for a copy, email confirmed as delivered and read 3 weeks earlier but nobody bothered to send me a copy, then the same person I emailed rings me up to ask for payment, when I pointed that out they said, "Oh I didn't send a copy, I just thought the original would have turned up by now"
[11:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> how do I restart the network manager jobby in the top bar?
[11:55] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: still need to?
[11:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[11:55] <popey> (generally you don't, you restart NM itself)
[11:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> sudo service network-manager restart
[11:55] <popey> ya
[11:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just installed Openvpn but it's not showing up in the list of VPNs I want to configure
[11:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Now installing network-manager-openvpn - why didn't the software centre install this when I installed openvnp is beyond me.
[11:57] <jussi> DJones: lol
[11:58] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: because it isn't a dependency on openvpn if you did it the other way round it would of
[11:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: yes - but that disn;t show up by default - was hidden in the "technical items" ;-)
[11:59] <shauno> sounds fair enough to me.  I use ubuntu on servers.  I don't want NM to be a dependency of openvpn
[11:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: Am not on a server - obviously
[12:00] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Technical items is basically anything that doesn't have .desktop file making it hard to display graphically.  So that fits the criteria sorry :)
[12:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just seems a bit sucky really.
[12:00] <foobarry> just noticed the little animation lmgtfy now does
[12:01] <popey> some people don't want to install nmetwork-manager-openvpn though
[12:01] <popey> e.g. if you use wicd + openvpn, you don't want NM pulled in
[12:01] <popey> so it's sane
[12:03] <shauno> I think what he'd need simply isn't in deb's brains atm.  an amazon-esque "if you have X and Y, you may also be interested in Z"
[12:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: yeah - like I want focus follows eyeballs rather than mouse ;-)
[12:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Which is probably doable as Samsung can do that kind of thing on their phones...
[12:10] <shauno> I really need to find a way to move these VMs to kvm or similar.  vmware is inspiring many not-family-safe phrases today
[12:16] <diddledan> shauno: the ones you were trying to coerce months ago?
[12:16] <SuperMatt> are the tasks your vm is doing something that lxc could do?
[12:16] <shauno> some of them, probably.  others come packaged as a VM from a third-party, so are probably best left that way
[12:17] <SuperMatt> d'oh
[12:18] <shauno> and one's windows7, which is also filling me with various kinds of hate :(
[12:18] <SuperMatt> naturally#
[12:20] <shauno> well, mostly it just makes me feel stupid.  eg, I can't figure out how to renew dhcp on nic2
[12:20] <diddledan> you'll never manage to move a windows7 vm onto a different platform if you want it to stay activated
[12:21] <diddledan> shauno: ipconfig /renew doesn't work?
[12:23] <shauno> honestly, I can't tell
[12:29] <shauno> never thought I'd say this, but I want the XP vm back
[12:29] <MooDoo> SLAP!
[12:29] <MooDoo> ;)
[12:30] <MooDoo> shauno: did you read about the latest xp xploit with adobes reader installed?
[12:31] <shauno> well see, it's not internet-facing so I've never had to worry about stuff like that
[12:31] <shauno> golden rule for windows; no internet, no problem :)
[12:32] <MooDoo> just had a friend with the crypto virus
[12:33] <diplo> I've not seen the crypto thing or bothered reading up on it.. how do you get it ? Just links, or have to install something manually ?
[12:33] <MooDoo> diplo: it's malware, exe or from a zip, but yes you have to run it
[12:33] <shauno> from what I've ready, the primary vector appears to be email
[12:33] <MooDoo> yes and it's a doozy, :(
[12:34] <MooDoo> I told my friend pay up or loose your data, they didn't want to pay x hundred quid so reformatted.
[12:34] <shauno> most the cases I've read so far, it tries to pretend it's coming from someone within the company (hello SPF) and then mails itself to the rest of the company
[12:35] <diplo> :/
[12:35] <diplo> No ones got round it in any way yet then I guess
[12:35]  * diplo goes off to read up on it.
[12:35] <MooDoo> you can't
[12:35] <MooDoo> diplo: it encyrpts your files with 256bit encryption, you have to pay for the key
[12:35] <shauno> so far, cash, backups, or wave goodbye
[12:36] <shauno> and keep in mind that it will try to traverse mapped network shares
[12:39] <shauno> backups can't be understated there either.  If someone's lost "everything" they either had no backups, or they were hot/online  (see also: raid is not a backup)
[12:40] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[12:40] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: you around?
[12:41] <diplo> Blimey, that sucks.. amazed I've not had any calls yet :)
[12:41] <dogmatic69> sup
[12:41] <diplo> Maybe people are actually starting to take heed of me saying don't click the links!
[12:41] <dogmatic69> bigcalm:  o/
[12:41] <bigcalm> dogmatic69:  I need to read a model record without it returning an array that also includes all linked records
[12:42] <dogmatic69> still in 1.1?
[12:42] <MooDoo> diplo: nah doubt it
[12:42] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: $this->Apartment->read(null, $apartmentId) is returning far more data than I need
[12:42] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: yep, but hopefully still relevant
[12:42] <dogmatic69> ok, does the model have 'recursive' property?
[12:43] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: not that I can see in models/apartment.php
[12:43] <dogmatic69> it would be in cakes Model class
[12:44] <dogmatic69> it has http://api11.cakephp.org/class_model.html#21ff2f461a6032573d52bba2cd8ec296
[12:44] <dogmatic69> you can use that to limit what returns
[12:44] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: yep, just found it
[12:44] <bigcalm> Okay...
[12:45] <dogmatic69> that will for example stop returning all relations with -1
[12:45] <dogmatic69> 0 should do just belongs to
[12:45] <dogmatic69> or has one
[12:45] <dogmatic69> you can also use http://api11.cakephp.org/class_model.html#10b02aacb6ec610a54e578f11ac73e54
[12:45] <dogmatic69> with that you can remove specific relations before the find
[12:46]  * bigcalm tinkers
[12:46] <bigcalm> Thanks :)
[12:47] <dogmatic69> in the newer cakes you could specify if that unbind lasted or just for the next find. Not sure of the 1.1
[12:47] <dogmatic69> seems like it is for the entire request, but might be for the next call only.
[12:50] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: works like a charm, thanks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6514310/
[12:51] <dogmatic69> np
[12:51] <bigcalm> That is within the BeforeSave() method of the Booking model. Hopefully it won't mess up the relationships
[12:51] <dogmatic69> bigcalm:  bit late now, but the 'best' thing to do is set it to -1 in the appmodel and then adjust as needed. :)
[12:52] <dogmatic69> but newer versions have containable which makes selecting the fields / models to use on the fly much easier
[12:53] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: this is a _very_ old project. Making do with what I have ;)
[12:53] <dogmatic69> ye, 1.1 is ~ windows 95 :P
[12:54] <bigcalm> It still has support for PHP 4
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> poor you
[12:54] <bigcalm> Well, in the framework. Not sure my code is still usable on PHP 4
[13:08] <popey> \o/ turkey ordered
[13:08] <MartijnVdS> popey: Food or pet?
[13:09] <popey> food
[13:10] <SuperMatt> my n54l is here!
[13:11] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Pet food I bet the cats get away with it :D
[13:16] <popey> \o/
[13:16] <popey> ordered quite a big turkey, hope it fits in the oven ☻
[13:17] <popey> might cheat and cook it the day before
[13:18] <foobarry> is anyone unfortunate enough to use office 365?
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: I had to at my previous job
[13:20] <foobarry> IMAP and SMTP support is terrible
[13:20] <foobarry> and regular issues
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: IMAP disconnects *all the time*
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> SMTP sometimes randomly decides to reject your password, so Thunderbird gets confused
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> Good thing I only worked at that place for a month
[13:21] <foobarry> what a joke
[13:21] <popey> Well, thats the last time I go to *that* bakery. I ordered a cornish pastie and she put a sausage roll in the bag ☹
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: apparently it works fine with Lookout
[13:21] <foobarry> my company have decided to no longer support thunderbird with o365
[13:22] <foobarry> what is lookout?
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: Outlook
[13:22] <foobarry> there's no way i'm puntting that hideous app on my machine
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> good!
[13:23] <foobarry> creates more problems than it solves
[13:23] <ali1234> popey: that's just... wow
[13:23] <diddledan> it's not as bad as express lookout
[13:24] <foobarry> wondering about creating a smtp relay
[13:24] <shauno> then you'll have two problems ;)
[13:25] <Myrtti> I just yesterday saw a 3D printer on Google+ that is sold for 499 and now I can't find the ink
[13:25] <Myrtti> link
[13:25] <Myrtti> oh yeah
[13:26] <Myrtti> found it
[13:26] <knightwise> grrrr
[13:27] <knightwise> just lost the remote control with a laptop I had setup in our isp's datacenter
[13:27] <MooDoo> knightwise: you eating frosties lol
[13:27] <knightwise> And I need to get at it to do some tests
[13:27] <Daviey> Myrtti: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/125537-rs-reprappro-ormerod-3d-printer-could-be-world-s-cheapest-and-it-s-self-replicating-to-boot ?
[13:27] <knightwise> MooDoo: i'm eating "Frusties"
[13:27] <Myrtti> Daviey: yeah
[13:27] <Daviey> nice
[13:37] <popey> foobarry: reminder - airfix and hornby calendar ☻
[13:44] <foobarry> popey: thanks i just did them a few mins ago ☻
[13:44] <foobarry> did you get a reminder from facebook or something?
[13:44] <foobarry> scalextric too!
[13:44] <popey> no, i set a reminder in my to-do app
[13:44] <foobarry> the hornby clues are weird
[13:44] <foobarry> i'd love to win a hornby set
[13:45] <foobarry> worth building a 30k extension for ;P
[13:45] <knightwise> darn.. i forgot to adjust the power settings of the remote machine ... thats why I cant reach it any more.
[13:46] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: it fell asleep?
[13:46] <knightwise> yep
[13:46] <MartijnVdS> haha
[13:46] <knightwise> Now i need a biorobot on site to wiggle the mouse
[13:55] <foobarry> try blowing down the cat5 cable
[13:55] <directhex> swing it round your head, so stuck bits can fly out
[13:55] <knightwise> going to see if I can poke an engineer onsite
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> are you using the correct wifi cables?
[13:57] <knightwise> you guys should have your own stand up comedy show
[13:57] <knightwise> somewhere in the center of a black hole
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/68868664110/digging-into-kernel-internals
[13:57] <dwatkins> just get one of these to move the mouse a bit every so often: http://the-gadgeteer.com/2010/12/05/wiebetech-mouse-jiggler-review/ or implement your own... http://lifehacker.com/5896093/use-an-analog-alarm-clock-to-disable-forced-screensavers
[13:59] <knightwise>                   http://the-gadgeteer.com/2010/12/05/wiebetech-mouse-jiggler-review/ or implement your own... http://the-gadgeteer.com/2010/12/05/wiebetech-mouse-jiggler-review/
[13:59] <knightwise> slrr
[13:59] <knightwise> ggaaah !
[13:59] <knightwise> not my day today :)
[13:59] <knightwise> thanx for the tips
[13:59] <knightwise> love the clock one :)
[13:59] <knightwise> http://mousejiggler.codeplex.com/
[14:00] <knightwise> this is a software version of it
[14:02] <dwatkins> yeah, I saw, neat idea that one too.
[14:10] <foobarry> does it work on joggler?
[14:10] <popey> joggler jiggler
[14:11] <foobarry> you can get jogglers for peanuts now
[14:11] <foobarry> what power supply do they need?
[14:12] <directhex> if you have a loose power connector, do you need to joggle it?
[14:12] <foobarry> £15 without power supply
[14:15] <foobarry> 5V, 4000mA DC hmmm i'll pass
[14:17] <foobarry> people are paying big money on ebay for the hp touchpad...crazy
[14:19] <knightwise> hp touchpad ?
[14:19] <knightwise> aha
[14:19] <knightwise> webos
[14:20] <foobarry> still commanding higher prices that what people paid for it
[14:20] <foobarry> mine wouldn't fetch that much since i've hacked it open twice
[14:27] <knightwise> there..
[14:27] <knightwise> remote access restored
[14:27] <knightwise> biorobot did his work ok :)
[14:27] <knightwise> installed the mouse jiggle app and tweaked the power settings
[14:35] <foobarry> phew. thought i'd cracked my phone screen but it was the screen protector starting to degrade after 4 yrs on my phone
[14:37] <dwatkins> I forget I have a screen protector, mine's thankfully not had that problem yet
[14:39]  * MartijnVdS never uses those
[14:40] <foobarry> my tablet has one too because styli tend to scratch
[14:40] <awilkins> I had one of those "Invisible Shield" ones on my N900 because it had a plastic resistive screen
[14:41] <foobarry> i didn't know they were resistive
[14:41] <awilkins> I dropped the first one on a printout and it peeled off the top layer
[14:41] <awilkins> I swore a lot, and then went to town on it trying to damage it
[14:41] <awilkins> I was rather impressed with how much abuse it too
[14:41] <foobarry> not as much as you abused nokia for withdrawing it?
[14:42] <awilkins> Couldn't puncture it with a ballpoint even trying very hard
[14:42] <awilkins> (the screen protector)
[14:42] <awilkins> The next one I put on in the bathroom after running the shower for 10 minutes to haze the dust out of the air
[14:43] <awilkins> Zero bubbles, to date it's stayed on perfectly and never showed any signs of damage (my daughter now has the N900 as an audio player)
[14:44] <foobarry> bathrooms also good as not v carpeted
[14:44] <awilkins> My bathroom has a laminate floor
[14:44] <foobarry> think i have stone floor
[14:44] <awilkins> I liked the N900 but not how it was hobbled by Elop killing the development team
[14:44] <foobarry> never used the underfloor heating tho
[14:45] <foobarry> lamost bought a n900 but got the desire which i still have
[14:45] <awilkins> Underfloor is supposed to be very efficient
[14:45] <awilkins> Have a Nexus 4 now
[14:45] <awilkins> No screen protector
[14:45] <foobarry> :-0
[14:45] <awilkins> Don't need it, not a mark on the glass
[14:45] <foobarry> i like to keep things shop-fresh
[14:45] <MartijnVdS> same with my galaxy nexus
[14:46] <MartijnVdS> which was in my pocket for almost 2 years
[14:46] <awilkins> Need a bumper case though - the bezel has at least 2 dings from when I thought it would be cool to have a nice slim smartphone
[14:46] <awilkins> Yeah, the trick is to have a trouser pocket that you use for NOTHING else but your phone
[14:46] <foobarry> my rubber case has saved me from a few drops onto concrete
[14:46] <awilkins> No metal ever enters that pocket, no exceptions
[14:47] <diplo> awilkins: +1
[14:47] <diplo> Right pocket for phone, left pocket for change/wallet and keys if no jacket on
[14:48] <awilkins> I'm a phone southpaw :-)
[14:48] <BigRedS> I've got my phone in a case that makes it about the size of a house brick
[14:48] <diplo> My phone is 2+ years old, no protective bumper or screen covers and still ok
[14:48] <awilkins> I had a full mild steel and leather case for the N900
[14:48] <diplo> Can't be bothered with those, just be careful :)
[14:49] <awilkins> One of those expensive swanky fashion ones with the metal belt clip
[14:49] <shauno> I don't 'do' cases.  ever since I got some sand inside one that did more damage than I ever could have without a case
[14:49] <directhex> i used my lumia 800 case
[14:49] <directhex> but that's a rare exception
[14:50] <directhex> before that, last cased phone i had was... the bundled leather case with the motorola startac
[14:50] <awilkins> I used my RAZR without a case
[14:50] <awilkins> But it was made of metal and all the shiny parts were inside
[14:50] <awilkins> Still have it but the battery is probably buggered
[14:51] <awilkins> Kept it as a "going out on the lash" phone for a while
[14:52] <directhex> i'm bad at getting drunk
[14:53] <foobarry> a friend was showing me his new S3 today which he bought because his htc (not that old) had gone slow
[14:53] <awilkins> I'm waay too good at it
[14:53] <foobarry> i facepalmed and told him about CM
[14:53] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: which is slow too, on old phones
[14:53] <foobarry> it was a recent one
[14:53] <MartijnVdS> fial
[14:53] <directhex> android does that.
[14:53] <MartijnVdS> directhex: not always
[14:53] <directhex> mostly facebook integration to blame
[14:54] <foobarry> android suffers terribly from cruft build up
[14:54]  * awilkins hasn't installed Farcebook
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> ah. That explains it -- I don't have FB
[14:54] <awilkins> My wife just uses it from the browser, even on her phone
[14:54] <foobarry> clearing caches and regularly deleting app data helps but is tedious
[14:54] <foobarry> i should just restore from a nadroid backup instead
[14:54] <foobarry> the fb app is good now
[14:55] <davmor2> foobarry: you'd of thought that someone would of written an app for that :D
[14:55] <foobarry> there is SD maid etc but they aren't grreat at it
[14:55] <awilkins> Just do a factory reset and let the Chocolate Factory restore your phone from the Cloud ?
[14:56] <foobarry> google don't backup my phone
[14:56] <foobarry> not knowingly anyway
[14:57] <awilkins> That's an ironic quit messge.
[14:58] <davmor2> foobarry: do you log into google at any point?  If so then I bet it stores a fair whack of your info automagically
[14:58] <foobarry> probab
[14:58] <foobarry> its mostly to avoid confusion tbh
[14:58] <foobarry> because i have mutliple devices
[14:59] <foobarry> and i've run multiple versions of CM on my phone at various points
[14:59] <foobarry> my phone perf is worse than the worst ever phone atm because i used s2e to enlarge my internal storage
[14:59] <foobarry> the lag is horrific
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> I just bought a Nexus 5
[15:05] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: you like?
[15:05] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I love it
[15:05] <MartijnVdS> though I have to admit I'm not someone who installs 100.000 apps "just because"
[15:29] <dwatkins> I ran out of storage on my Android phone because I like having lots of apps.
[15:30] <MartijnVdS> I have.. 6 apps, I guess?
[15:30] <dwatkins> I uninstalled Facebook because it wanted to borg my phone. I just use it in the browser on Android now.
[15:31] <MartijnVdS> Twitter, some sort of GPS thing, a bus times thing, an app that lets me park without buying a ticket, Vodafone account status thingy, Runkeeper
[15:31] <MartijnVdS> oh and a podcast tool. 7
[15:32] <foobarry> why u need new phone then?
[15:32] <foobarry> a phone from 2007 could do that :D
[15:32] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: yes, but not with 25 megabits/second LTE ;)
[15:32] <foobarry> ah
[15:32] <foobarry> o lots of browings for you
[15:32] <MartijnVdS> google music :)
[15:38] <dwatkins> I mostly use my phone for streaming music from http://di.fm/ (I have infinite bandwidth thanks to Three)
[15:40] <foobarry> i stream from my mp3 player
[15:40] <foobarry> from internal storage
[15:41] <dwatkins> I used to have a 32 GB iPhone, but it kinda went in the canal.
[15:56] <foobarry> less painful than what i first read that sentence as
[15:58] <awilkins> You need a very specialised kind of case for that malarkey
[16:00] <directhex> urgh. Lightning in 12.04 and Thunderbird in 12.04 are subtly incompatible
[16:01] <foobarry> WFM
[16:02] <foobarry> lightning 2.6.2
[16:02] <foobarry> tb 24.10
[16:03] <directhex> foobarry, 12.04 has 2.6.2 and TB 24.1.1
[16:03] <directhex> where you need lightning 2.6.3, or invite mails are not successfully sent
[16:04] <dwatkins> awilkins: yeah, I'm tempted to get an Otterbox one.
[16:05] <awilkins> dwatkins, I was referring to the use that foobarry misconstrued... but the Otterbox might suffice for that ...
[16:06] <dwatkins> haha, ok
[16:07] <awilkins> Hmm, I'm always leery of using Runkeeper because I'll have to carry my phone when I run
[16:07] <awilkins> And that means getting a "hey, steal me" strap or something
[16:07] <dwatkins> I use Strava when I cycle to/from work, but I've managed to forget to zip-up the pocket in my jacket a couple times.
[16:08] <awilkins> Does it have voice commands?
[16:08] <dwatkins> I also got one of those armbands, but that means I have to take the phone out of its case.
[16:08] <awilkins> Just wondering if I could rig something like a back holster and only have a voice interface to it
[16:08] <dwatkins> awilkins: not sure, Endomondo's app tells you every mile how long you've been travelling, iirc.
[16:09] <awilkins> Then it's just a pair of black headphones disappearing into your neckline and noone thinks "Mmmm, iPhoney Goodness"
[16:10] <awilkins> Anyone else notice that the UK builds of Android don't do the "Ok, Google" activation thing?
[16:11] <dwatkins> I have a bluetooth headset that looks like a dogtag, so I just connect my black Sony headphones to that.
[16:11] <awilkins> Probably clashes with the GCHQ voice monitoring app...
[16:11]  * awilkins waves at Menwith Hill
[16:11] <dwatkins> I would love to do one of those balloon flights.
[16:12] <foobarry> directhex: restarted TB, now have 24.1.1
[16:12] <foobarry> its buggered up my exchange calendar
[16:13] <foobarry> why oh why...
[16:13] <foobarry> now have 2.6.3 lightning but still broke
[16:23] <bigcalm> Installing a .deb from a site instead from USC, should these warnings really stop me from installing? http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/synergy.1.4.15.beta.deb.png
[16:23]  * bigcalm pokes davmor2
[16:25] <davmor2> bigcalm: no idea but lintian normally checks for the validity of a package so if there are lots of errors I would be a little concerned
[16:31] <bigcalm> davmor2: does it do more checking than the warnings shown? Wondering if the permissions is a big problem or not
[16:31] <bigcalm> It appears to be setting the ownership to my user rather than root
[16:32] <davmor2> bigcalm: not sure.  I think there is a doc on litian on the wiki one second
[16:35]  * bigcalm installs from the cli and sees no warnings
[16:35] <bigcalm> Oh well :)
[16:36] <davmor2> bigcalm: meh I can't find it now
[16:37] <bigcalm> davmor2: life goes on :)
[16:37] <davmor2> bigcalm: that's because dpkg -i doesn't run a check :P
[16:37] <foobarry> directhex: works again now
[16:38] <directhex> go go gadget thunderpony
[16:40] <Myrtti> I hadn't realised trying to find a nice car was this difficult
[16:41] <awilkins> Myrtti, What you after?
[16:41] <awilkins> My needs are simple, so I usually go for the cheapest but nicest quality I can get
[16:41] <awilkins> First car : Daewoo Matiz. £8,300 (14 years ago)
[16:42] <Seeker`> Myrtti: golf / audi ftw
[16:42] <awilkins> Most recent car : Skoda Citigo (£8,300) :
[16:42] <awilkins> No cars in between
[16:43] <Myrtti> well it's not directly for me (yet, since I don't have a licence yet) but automatic. Been looking at Volvo V50's since we might get a dog at some point and having an estate would be especially nice then
[16:44] <Myrtti> the old car was Rover75
[16:44] <foobarry> focus ftw
[16:45] <foobarry> i drive a focus estate atm, because i had to sell my lovely seat ibiza when the baby came
[16:45]  * popey hugs his v70
[16:45] <AlanBell> with freakishly long arms
[16:45]  * TheOpenSourcerer is on his 2nd V70
[16:46] <Myrtti> AlanBell: let me guess, do you have a v70 too?
[16:46] <foobarry> the alan club
[16:46]  * Myrtti nods
[16:46] <AlanBell> Myrtti: not quite, I have an S reg fiesta at the moment
[16:47] <foobarry> it could fit in the volvo
[16:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> And a small van AlanBell
[16:47] <AlanBell> and a mercedes, yes
[16:47] <davmor2> Myrtti: I'm not sure what's hard then?  Goto autotrader.co.uk type in v50 done ;)
[16:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> The funny thing is. My wife wants me to have the Volvo so she can take the kids camping once or twice a year. And then she needs a 60L topbox too ;-)
[16:48] <foobarry> i bought a top box this year
[16:48] <Myrtti> davmor2: well we've been doing that but it's the analytical side that's kicking in
[16:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'd much rather a nice small car that uses less fuel and is a bit more "sporty". But she won;t let me :-(
[16:48] <foobarry> 250L
[16:48] <Myrtti> we have a Google spreadsheet. Nuff said.
[16:49] <foobarry> the seat ecomotive uses as much as a prius but is £5k less
[16:49] <awilkins> People justify whatever they buy as "worth it" because they bought it. 'nuff said.
[16:49] <foobarry> prius has more to go wrong IMO
[16:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Before Volvos my previous car was a shiny BMW 325 Convertible
[16:49] <awilkins> Ah, yeah, would not buy a Prius
[16:49] <awilkins> Not had one
[16:49]  * directhex has a prius
[16:49] <foobarry> was that your mid life crisis car?
[16:49] <foobarry> (the BMW)
[16:49] <awilkins> But it seems a terrible waste of complexity and energy to hump that huge battery around all over the place
[16:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nah. That was my pre-kids and plenty of cash car
[16:50] <awilkins> Would much rather have something small
[16:50] <foobarry> my friend used to belong to a rowing club and suddenly a load of men went and bought convertible porsches etc and wore leather jackets and ray bans
[16:50] <Myrtti> Renault Fluences are cheap ;-)
[16:50] <Myrtti> (to buy atleast)
[16:50] <Myrtti> also French
[16:50] <awilkins> I rather like the look of the Lit Motors C1 but the chances of it being out any time soon are slim
[16:50] <directhex> i'd buy another prius, at the right price.
[16:50] <Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/u/0/100833008366289253433/posts/L4WEn3PTBwM
[16:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Right now, if I had a choice, I'd probably go for a decent spec new "A Class" merc, a Golf GTi or an A5.
[16:51] <awilkins> I fervently wish that the material scientists would get off their arse and invent a battery that isn't rubbish.
[16:51] <foobarry> almost got run over by a prius silently gliding off a driveaway the other day
[16:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> They have - it's called a fuel-cell
[16:51] <Seeker`> foobarry: they probably all realised that porches aren't actually that expensive if you don't buy them new, and realised that they didn't have anything else to spend money on :P
[16:52] <Seeker`> *porsches
[16:52] <ali1234> batteries have been getting better consistently for years. the problem is that all that stuff about "new more efficient CPUs" is all pure lies
[16:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> In the future we may well have *MAHOOSIVE* capacitors built from Graphene that would deliver better performance than any current battery technology.
[16:52] <directhex> petrol-electric hybrids are petrol cars which can get away with smaller engines than their size would suggest. they should not be regarded as anything else.
[16:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - bored now. Going home. TTFN.
[16:53] <popey> o/
[16:53] <popey> I'd love a Tesla S or X
[16:53] <Seeker`> foobarry: you can get a decent 2nd hand porsche for £10-£12k I think
[16:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: When we doing our xmas luncheon again?
[16:53] <popey> no idea
[16:53] <popey> not this thursday
[16:53] <popey> but sometime soon
[16:53] <directhex> e.g. the 2nd gen prius is a fairly large 1.4 tonne car with a 1.5l engine which gets ~50mpg combined
[16:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> not this week.
[16:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not next week.
[16:53] <popey> ok
[16:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> w/c 16th?
[16:54] <popey> maybe
[16:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> check with swmbo
[16:54] <popey> wilco
[16:54]  * awilkins is getting < 10p per mile out of his CitiGo
[16:55] <awilkins> Trying to determine whether posh petrol or standard petrol is more efficient
[16:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Had a good idea. Pay my expenses before I go home... :-)
[16:55] <directhex> awilkins, check the manual. there should be a recommended octane level which the engine is tuned for
[16:55] <popey> heh
[16:56] <awilkins> directhex, Inside the cap says "Super premium, 95 RON min"
[16:56] <awilkins> directhex, But std. petrol in the UK is 95 RON
[16:56] <popey> http://blog.shubh.am/prezi-bug-bounty/
[16:58] <directhex> awilkins, in europe, 95 is "super premium"
[16:58] <directhex> awilkins, so 95.
[16:58] <awilkins> std. petrol...
[16:58] <awilkins> Hmm, I should actually write down my fill costs and mileage
[17:17] <diddledan> BOGOF
[17:17] <diddledan> I just got an email from dominos - two for tuesday
[17:19] <AlanBell> I once did a system that tracked sales responses to marketing offers, so you do a buy one get one free for a week on something and track whether it worked, so we had stuff with BOGOF in it all over the place in the test system. Then we got some other people to test it
[17:19] <AlanBell> and they thought they would follow the bog off theme of the existing data
[17:20] <shauno> I got to the point where I visited dominos in 'privacy mode' just to make sure they greeted everyone as 'pizza lover'
[18:26] <popey> AlanBell: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57614011-94/firefox-os-fan-geeksphone-plans-high-end-revolution/
[18:38] <ali1234> lol intel smartphones
[18:39] <ali1234> "the year of the x86 smartphone" == "the yea of the linux desktop"
[18:39] <ali1234> it's never going to happen because nobody wants a phone with a 2 hour battery
[18:44] <directhex> that's not the issue
[18:44] <directhex> intel smartphones are competitive with arm on battery life and on performance
[18:44] <directhex> they are *not* competitive on ability to run android apps which ship ARM .so files, which is lots of them
[18:45] <directhex> see also; MIPS smartphones
[18:45] <ali1234> they're competitive on battery life and performance ie the battery lasts the same amount of time if you run them flat out
[18:45] <directhex> and i don't know if they're competitive on price
[18:47] <directhex> last year's intel chip, Medfield, was about the same as omap4 for battery life
[18:48] <Seeker`> MIPS ftw
[18:50] <ali1234> again, when you run them both flat out
[18:50] <ali1234> or alternatively when you put them both in the deepest possible sleep state
[18:51] <ali1234> the middle area of actual normal usage is the area where x86 just isn't competitive
[19:26] <popey> ooh, new humble bundle
[19:26] <popey> not a lot of linux content there
[19:26] <shauno> yeah I've noticed that lately.  they've been attracting some more big labels, but skimping on the ports
[19:27] <zleap> odd given that linux users were at one point the biggest financial contributors
[19:27] <shauno> and I swear that serious sam icon is bono
[19:28] <shauno> I dunno about biggest; normally they have the highest average, but lack the population
[19:46] <foobarry> you've been framed is a weird programme. sometimes funny but often little kids hurting themselves quite badly
[19:47] <shauno> kids are a lot more resillient than people give them credit for
[19:48] <foobarry> sure but its not funny to see an adult drop a baby on the floor
[19:49] <foobarry> nor grannies cracking their hip on the wedding floor
[19:52] <ali1234> popey: garry's mod?
[19:53] <ali1234> requires that you already own a source game
[19:57] <foobarry> serious sam looks HL2ish
[19:57] <foobarry> garrys mod looks portal
[19:58] <ali1234> garry's mod is a source sandbox engine. its not a game
[20:00] <foobarry> The current version, Garry's Mod 13, was released October 24, 2012. In March 2013 it was revealed that the game has made over 22 million dollars.[6] As of November 2013 the game has sold 3.5 million copies.[7]
[20:00] <foobarry> wowza
[20:01] <foobarry> looks like a bored teenagers dream
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> like minecraft ;)
[20:05] <foobarry> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX6A0-7B4V0
[20:05] <foobarry> 8.50 rollercoaster goes a big wrong
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> sigh.. linux kernel vulnerability
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> which means.. 6 USNs in my mailbox..
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> no wait, 8
[20:08] <shauno> (romanian accent) 10 new emails! ha ha ha
[20:09] <shauno> I don't know if they have sesame street in the netherlands.  but I'm really, really bored
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> shauno: yes, we have it :)
[20:09] <foobarry> MartijnVdS: link to kernelprob pleae?
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> shauno: though his name isn't nearly as punny, as "Count" (the title) is "Graaf"
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> foobarry: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2013-December/thread.html
[20:10] <shauno> MartijnVdS: no offence, but your language is funny in a whole different way :)
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> different than Irish, you mean? ;)
[20:11] <shauno> oh irish is just absurd.  but that's not me, I just live here
[20:11] <shauno> true story.  the only irish I know is 'mna' and 'fir'.  It works something like this.  You're at a pub, and you see these two words scribed on the doors of the facilities
[20:12] <shauno> your nerd logic leads you to guess that f is feminine and m is masculine.  and mna is an anagram of man, after all
[20:12] <shauno> you would be wrong, and you just learnt some irish you'd never forget
[20:13] <foobarry> whole bunch on redhat too from last week http://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2013-1645.html
[20:13] <ali1234> clearly the one that ends in a vowel is feminine
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> shauno: what's the etymology of that?
[20:14] <ali1234> and the one that ends in a consonant is masculine
[20:14] <foobarry> and fir, for some drunk people, they think fur = lady
[20:14] <shauno> MartijnVdS: no idea, at all
[20:14] <foobarry> everything points to mna=man
[20:14] <foobarry> and everybody does it once, or stands back to watch others
[20:15] <shauno> I have a theory that irish spellings are drawn by lottery.  8 years and I still can't link spellings to pronounciation
[20:15] <foobarry> i also learned that you can't collect your coat from the cloakroom while the anthem is playing
[20:15] <shauno> one parent gets to pick the name.  the other gets to pick scrabble tiles from a bag to decide how it's spelt
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> shauno: nah that's Welsh
[20:16] <shauno> but I have to say.  dutch is just as bad.
[20:16] <shauno> what's that word?  free!  v, r, i j, free!
[20:17] <shauno> eventually, someone has to point out that those letters are completely unrelated to the word
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> shauno: you just have trouble with the dipthongs like "ij" (also "ei"), "ui" and "oe" :)
[20:18] <shauno> and many, many more
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> shauno: http://translate.google.com/#nl/en/vrij -> let the Google woman pronounce it
[20:18] <shauno> I'm struggling with slovak because they have sounds that simply don't exist in english
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> shauno: s/in english//
[20:18] <daftykins> shauno: when i was visiting an Irish friend she was sat by me saying to look up some etailer for a graphics card, she said the name but i could NOT translate it into what to type XD
[20:18] <daftykins> i started mashing keys before the "what are you doing?" came up :D
[20:18] <AlanBell> popey: yeah, interesting, I can keep my existing order and get one of those when they come out, I was waiting for specs and timescales
[20:18] <shauno> daftykins: this is why I prefer immigrant taxi drivers.  I can't pronounce the name of my street.  I dread irish taxi drivers
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> shauno: what does google say? :)
[20:19] <daftykins> shauno: :D
[20:19] <foobarry> drop you off on the corner of pronouncable street
[20:20] <shauno> it doesn't have a little speaker icon for irish.  but it translates it to 'high meadow', which is ... very optimistic
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> shauno: how is it written?
[20:21] <shauno> cluainard
[20:21] <shauno> although my other gripe .. the last place I lived, I found 4 different spellings
[20:21] <daftykins> i'd guess at 'clway-nard'
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> From Old Irish ard, from Proto-Celtic *ardwos (compare Welsh ardd) from Proto-Indo-European *h₁rh₃dh-wo- (“high, steep”) (compare Latin arduus, Ancient Greek ὀρθός (orthos, “straight”)).
[20:22] <shauno> three of them on actual signs upon the road
[20:22] <foobarry> sounds rather 3rd world
[20:23] <foobarry> with development comes standardisation
[20:23] <shauno> most of it's just highly confused because the "official" gaelic is a work of fiction.  and a relatively recent one
[20:23] <shauno> so the local spelling doesn't always agree with the official
[20:24] <shauno> if you divide ireland into 4 like a shield, each has its own traditional gaelic.  and the official gaelic is none of them
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> shauno: and then there's Scottish gaelic
[20:25] <shauno> but that's only used for postman pat :)
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> shauno: there's a whole BBC channel in that language!
[20:25] <shauno> I lived in scotland for 9 or 10 years.  childrens TV was the only time I saw it used
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcalba/programmes/schedules/
[20:27] <shauno> padraig post I remember .. danger mouse I'm aware existed, but doesn't come to mind
[20:28] <daftykins> O_O
[20:28] <shauno> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IZ8i2yYg5E   :)
[20:29] <ali1234> hahaha that doesn't scan at all
[20:33] <shauno> but currently, ť is the bane of my existence.  it's described to me as ch, g, and t at the same time.  but apparently I can't even discern the sound, let alone reproduce it
[20:34] <daftykins> yeah it's only in the first few years of life you can hear those quirky sounds
[20:34] <daftykins> err, any, rather :D
[20:34] <daftykins> maybe now it's just too late!
[20:37] <shauno> right.  I'm too old.  thanks man :p
[20:37] <daftykins> <3
[20:38] <daftykins> thing is we were in Thailand, myself and friends - a local was saying a word and my friend was trying to pronounce it
[20:38] <daftykins> i swear they were both saying the same thing, but the Thais were rolling around laughing
[20:39] <shauno> yeah, that's the same situation I find myself in
[20:40] <shauno> luckily it rarely alters the meaning.  it just makes me sound like foreigners who say thees instead of this
[20:40] <daftykins> :D
[20:44] <shauno> oh well.  I'm hoping it'll improve when I move there.  For now I can only practice at the cheese shop.  And my inner englishman prevents me from "hey, can I throw some random words at you to guage your reaction"
[20:48] <daftykins> hahaha
[20:48] <daftykins> you should just pick random staff in shops for that
[20:49] <shauno> well that's my problem.  there's very few slovak-speaking shops in Ireland
[20:49] <shauno> so far I've found two.  one sells sheep's cheese & beer, and the other is on the opposite side of the island
[20:50] <daftykins> hmmm
[20:50] <daftykins> oh we're not talking Irish still 0o
[20:50] <shauno> hah, sorry.  no interest in learning irish I'm afraid
[20:51] <daftykins> nah i don't think i'd bother :D
[20:52] <shauno> I'm trying to move east, but finding the phrases they teach you in books aren't the phrases people actually use
[20:52] <daftykins> i didn't even know it has its' own language for so long
[20:52] <daftykins> ah-har
[20:52] <daftykins> that's kinda like my school German vs. what Germans actually say
[20:52] <shauno> eg, "would you like a bag" never features.  or "please don't give me a 20, you'll wipe out my change"
[20:53] <shauno> I had one lady just grab my hand and just fish out the coins she needed.  I was actually trying to save the coins for the bus machine
[20:55] <shauno> and then we have issues like .. my gf's father knows 5 words of english.  yes, no, please, beer, and peter.
[20:55] <daftykins> :D
[20:58] <shauno> there's some interesting bits though
[20:59] <shauno> like they have no male form of 'nurse'.  nurse translates literally as "cute little sister of health."
[20:59] <shauno> so if you're a male nurse, your job title is still Little Sister
[20:59] <daftykins> hahaha
[21:00] <daftykins> so the gf's of Irish or Slovakian descent?
[21:00] <shauno> slovak
[21:00] <daftykins> sorry i seem to be failing to follow this eve
[21:00] <daftykins> ah-haaar
[21:01] <daftykins> hrmm wonder if that's where my Greek friend is
[21:01] <daftykins> i mix up the slo's
[21:01] <daftykins> nope she's in Slovenia :>
[21:01] <shauno> how?  slovenicina vs slovencia.  easy :p
[21:01] <daftykins> D:
[21:02] <shauno> it could be worse.  my mother insists on calling it czechoslovakia
[21:04] <daftykins> :S