[05:02] <pitti> Good morning
[05:27] <pitti> darkxst: how can I verify bug 1192372? when I do e. g. "gdb gedit" it doesn't seem to autoload anything
[05:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1192372 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "glib's gdb auto-load scripts are not loaded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192372
[07:52] <darkxst> pitti, you need to 'set debug auto-load' to see the auto-load logging
[07:53] <darkxst> pitti, or 'info auto-load python-scripts' will show the loaded scripts
[08:20] <darkxst> pitti, also they don't get loaded until after you run the program
[08:24] <pitti> darkxst: thanks
[08:31] <sil2100> Wellark: hello! Could you take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~pete-woods/hud/keywords-test-fail/+merge/197809 once you're around?
[08:31] <sil2100> Wellark: it's a fix for a FTBFS issue that's blocking hud release from migrating from proposed
[08:32] <ogra_> sil2100, oh we have a fix already ?
[08:36] <sil2100> ogra_: yes, it seems there's a branch for it but needs to be rewieved still
[08:36] <sil2100> Pete made a fix from what I see
[08:36] <ogra_> sil2100, well, ted is at the sprint
[08:37] <ogra_> so it should be possible to easily get a review in our TZ
[08:37] <ogra_> speaking of the devil
[08:37] <ogra_> hey tedg
[08:37] <tedg> Good morning ogra_
[08:38] <ogra_> tedg, we have a HUD FTBFS ... and a fix for it, but someone needs to review ... its a blocker for touch images atm ...
[08:38] <ogra_> https://code.launchpad.net/~pete-woods/hud/keywords-test-fail/+merge/197809
[08:38] <sil2100> tedg: hello! :) As ogra_ mentioned ^
[08:38] <ogra_> (seems fairly simple)
[08:40] <tedg> ogra_, sil2100, It seems pete-woods asked for Wellark to review it.  He just got in.
[08:40] <ogra_> ah, cool
[08:41] <ogra_> tedg, how about you guys all stay in our timezone after the sprint ... makes everything so much quicker :)
[08:44] <didrocks> +1
[08:48] <tedg> ogra_, Hah, everyone involved here is in your timezone normally :-)
[08:48] <tedg> Well, except Wellark, he's earlier.
[09:00] <Laney> gooooooooood morninnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg
[09:03] <mlankhorst> Hello, world!\n
[09:03] <Wellark> sil2100: done.
[09:04] <tedg> didrocks, What's the syntax for new symbols?  "replaceme" or "replace_me"
[09:04] <sil2100> Wellark: thank you!
[09:05] <didrocks> tedg: 0replaceme: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/FAQ#I.27m_exposing_a_new_C.2BAC8-C.2B-.2B-_symbols_in_my_library.2C_it_seems_that_some_packaging_changes_are_needed.2BICY-
[09:06] <tedg> didrocks, Ah, thanks!
[09:06] <didrocks> yw ;)
[09:57] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[09:59] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:59] <pitti> darkxst: hm, with that it installs into /usr/share/gdb/auto-load/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libglib-2.0.so.0.3901.0-gdb.py
[10:00] <darkxst> pitti, right, that is where gdb looks, since libglib in is /lib/
[10:00] <pitti> darkxst: nevermind, that's fine; thanks!
[10:05] <Laney> hey seb128
[10:05] <Laney> webkit/arm64 built ;-)
[10:05] <ogra_> whee !
[10:06] <ogra_> so my software center should work soon again ?
[10:06] <Laney> I don't think the two are related
[10:06] <Laney> you could help debug if you get the issue
[10:06] <ogra_> *sniff*
[10:06] <seb128> Laney, \o/
[10:47] <seb128> mvo, hey ... so aptdaemon's fix in trusty? do you want to fix the test issue first? are you looking at that?
[10:47] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, did you see my ping yesterday?
[10:47] <seb128> happyaron, hey, same question ;-)
[10:49] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128 :)
[10:50] <chrisccoulson> yeah, but no time to look at it just yet :/
[10:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
[10:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
[10:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks ;-)
[10:50] <seb128> trying to get errors cleaned for the lts ;-)
[13:16] <seb128> Laney vs webkit, new round, let's see how that one goes ;-)
[13:16] <Laney> muhahaha
[13:17] <Laney> damn, was hoping to get sagari
[13:18] <Laney> oh, what happened?
[13:20] <seb128> Laney, new harfbuzz got synced (new soname)
[13:20] <Laney> HARFBUZZZZZZZZZZZ
[13:20] <seb128> Laney, I'm going to rebuild pango
[13:20] <seb128> Laney, you should get lunch ;-)
[13:20] <Laney> I am doing
[13:21] <Laney> was hoping to leave that going while out for lunch
[13:21] <Laney> will give it back when I return then :P
[13:21] <seb128> right, I'm going to handle harfbuzz
[13:21] <seb128> enjoy lunch
[13:21] <Laney> ta
[13:21] <seb128> do you think you are going to be back for the settings meeting? ;-)
[13:22] <Laney> got to cycle to town in the wind + rain, not sure enjoyable will be it
[13:22] <Laney> isn't that at 14.30?
[13:22]  * seb128 wonders if we are going to still have one this year :p
[13:22] <seb128> it's in 1h30
[13:22] <Laney> no, 15.00
[13:22] <Laney> definitely will be
[13:22] <seb128> cool
[13:22] <Laney> unless the storm gets me
[13:22] <seb128> enjoy lunch then!
[13:22] <Laney> tata
[13:40] <mvo> seb128: uploaded, sorry
[13:41] <ogra_> mvo, hey, when are you coming back ? ... time to end that holiday :)
[13:42] <seb128> mvo, danke
[13:42] <seb128> mvo, hey, when do you come back? it's not the same here without you :/
[14:00] <seb128> Laney, so, I'm pondering dropping the new harfbuzz from trusty-proposed, let me know when you are back from lunch, want to discuss that
[14:01] <seb128> Sweetshark, can we get a libreoffice building in trusty? we have some transitions lining up that requires a rebuild from your side...
[14:04] <Sweetshark> seb128: whats the timeline on the transitions?
[14:04] <seb128> Sweetshark, new libharfbuzz has been autosynced from Debian today, and it's blocking webkit
[14:04] <seb128> which is why I just pinged Laney about deleting harfbuzz
[14:05] <seb128> but that sucks
[14:06] <mvo> ogra_: heh :)
[14:06] <mvo> seb128: your welcome
[14:07] <Sweetshark> sooo, LibreOffice 4.2.0 rc1 is scheduled for 2013-12-16, 4.2 is building in the ppa and IIRC 4.1 would not build as is on trusty.
[14:08] <Sweetshark> seb128: is that too long of?
[14:09] <desrt> greetings desktopers
[14:12] <larsu> greetings
[14:12] <seb128> desrt, good morning!
[14:12] <seb128> Sweetshark, we need to discuss it, we have several options
[14:13] <seb128> - dropping new harfbuzz
[14:13] <seb128> - keeping stuff in proposed for a while
[14:13] <seb128> - getting libreoffice to build
[14:13] <pitti> hey desrt, how are you?
[14:14] <desrt> good
[14:14] <pitti> desrt: I can haz systemd-shim 6?
[14:14] <desrt> sure.  i'll cook one up this morning.
[14:14]  * pitti passes the pepper and salt, thanks!
[14:15] <desrt> btw... i was thinking
[14:15] <desrt> how did you notice the bus-flushing problem?
[14:15] <desrt> it should have worked anyway because of your changes to the timeout...
[14:15] <pitti> desrt: yes, but I asked bug reporters to give me the shim output during suspend/resume, and saw all this goo; sec
[14:16] <pitti> desrt: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/156923742/systemd-shim.log
[14:16] <desrt> pitti: no worries.  just wondering if it was still failing or something :p
[14:16] <pitti> desrt: scroll to the end
[14:17] <pitti> desrt: yes, several people say it is still failing; although I can now not see anything wrong in systemd-shim's log, dbus-monitor, or pm-suspend.log :(
[14:17] <desrt> this bug has been very embarassing.  it's take like what?  3 releases to fix? :)
[14:17] <desrt> huh?
[14:17] <desrt> IMPOSSIBLE!!
[14:17] <pitti> my words exactly! :-)
[14:18] <pitti> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/158309871/systemd-shim.log is with the fix, and it looks impeccable
[14:18] <desrt> before i make distcheck i'm gonna make coffee
[14:19] <pitti> make: *** No rule to make target `coffee'.  Stop.
[14:19] <pitti> desrt: sorry, doesn't work
[14:20] <ochosi> pitti: you should really update your buildsystem! ;)
[14:20] <pitti> ochosi: but it's right! no coffee in the house; "make tea" OTOH works fine :)
[14:20] <desrt> ochosi: just needs to upgrade his hardware
[14:20] <ochosi> :D
[14:21] <Sweetshark> seb128: I will have a look at the 4.1 package in trusty today in the evening to see if its a trivial fix, I can give you a somewhat qualified opinion then ...
[14:21] <Sweetshark> seb128: k?
[14:21] <seb128> pitti, hey, can you remind me the env magic you gave me the other time to test software-properties drivers install on my intel box?
[14:21] <ochosi> btw, i'm looking to find someone who pushes updates to the indicator-stack usually
[14:21] <ochosi> who would you point me to?
[14:21] <seb128> Sweetshark, that would be great, thanks
[14:21] <desrt> pitti: COFFEE is a new intel CPU extension.  Compile-Optimised For Fast Executable... Execution
[14:21] <ochosi> (specifically we have a bugfix for the gtk2 indicator)
[14:22] <pitti> seb128: /usr/share/ubuntu-drivers-common/fake-devices-wrapper ubuntu-drivers list
[14:22] <seb128> pitti, danke
[14:22] <pitti> seb128: (or run any other program, like softwarwe-properties-gtk or lspci, etc.)
[14:28] <happyaron> seb128: can't get it working, removing the assertion does not work.
[14:29] <seb128> happyaron, what happens when you remove it?
[14:29] <seb128> happyaron, did you try to ping the fedora maintainer (since that's a bug in their patch)?
[14:29] <happyaron> seb128: fail on other parts, because the input method list is empty, the functions calls for input method engine's property will fail.
[14:30] <happyaron> seb128: no, he has an updated version of the patch, but the change is quite big and can be applied only to ibus 1.5.4.
[14:30] <seb128> ok
[14:39]  * seb128 hates python and encodings
[14:45] <Laney> seb128: what's the problem?
[14:46] <seb128> Laney, with what? python or harfbuzz?
[14:46] <Laney> harfbuzz
[14:46] <Laney> it's not a real transition is it?
[14:46] <Laney> in code terms
[14:46] <seb128> Laney, it's a soname change and rdepends include libreoffice
[14:46] <Laney> I thought it was just a package name change
[14:46] <seb128> Laney, and 4.1 doesn't build in trusty toolchain and 4.2 is not ready for upload yet
[14:47] <seb128> Laney, how is that different?
[14:47] <Laney> because it means there should be zero porting
[14:47] <seb128> well, it means a no change rebuild from libreoffice
[14:47] <seb128> which means a libreoffice not ftbfsing
[14:47] <Laney> that's a shame
[14:47] <seb128> right
[14:48] <Laney> highlights why that needs to be kept on top of
[14:48] <Laney> but yeah, delete it if that's best for now
[14:48] <seb128> don't tell me
[14:48] <seb128> read my ping to Sweetshark from half an hour ago
[14:48] <seb128> with the 3 options
[14:48] <seb128> he said he would look today if there is an easy for for 4.1
[14:49] <seb128> the issue is that we said we don't want to spend too much work on fixing 4.1 when we move to 4.2 this month
[14:49] <seb128> but 4.2 is still alpha and Sweetshark doesn't want to upload those versions to the archive
[14:49] <seb128> so it's a bit of a sucky situation
[14:59] <seb128> kenvandine, Laney, tedg, mpt, charles: let's resume settings hangout, who is available this week? (maybe not ted/charles in London)
[14:59] <seb128> attente, ^
[15:00] <Laney> ye
[15:00] <seb128> oh, hangout and Laney
[15:00] <Laney> muhahaha
[15:00] <seb128> that's almost as much fun than webkit and Laney
[15:00] <kenvandine> hey
[15:00] <Laney> I copy the link to http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/bah.html
[15:00] <Laney> and then visit that on my phone
[15:01] <seb128> lol
[15:01] <kenvandine> mpt is on
[15:01] <seb128> ok, let me start my browser
[15:07] <kenvandine> seb128, everything froze...
[15:08] <seb128> kenvandine, you seem fine
[15:11] <Laney> sec
[15:11] <Laney> attente: here
[15:12] <Laney> I tried to get the language name from e.g. "en"
[15:12] <Laney> but if you ask for it there it gives you "U.S. English"
[15:12] <Laney> so that solution doesn't work
[15:13] <Laney> seb128: make him look here!
[15:13] <mpt> oh bother
[15:13] <Laney> So it would be language name - country name
[15:13] <Laney> but yeah ...
[15:13] <mpt> Is there anything that returns the string "English"?
[15:14] <Laney> en_otherthings
[15:14] <Laney> but I don't know how you could do that algorithmically
[15:14] <mpt> Literally?
[15:14] <Laney> no
[15:14] <Laney> like en_GB
[15:14] <mpt> en_GB returns "English" and not "UK English"?
[15:14] <mpt> RULE BRITANNIA
[15:15] <Laney> there's a "language" method
[15:15] <Laney> which is like that, yeah ...
[15:15] <mpt> Laney, so does language("en") == language("en-NZ") == language("en-CA") etc?
[15:16] <Laney> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtcore/qlocale.html#languageToString
[15:16] <Laney> I think it was this one
[15:16] <Laney> no, "en" was the odd one out
[15:16] <Laney> IIRC
[15:17] <seb128> how manager engineers does it take to make google hangout work with audio :p
[15:17] <kenvandine> haha
[15:17] <Laney> it broke when I went to the text chat to see what mpt said
[15:17] <Laney> also then I couldn't figure out how to get back to the video for ages
[15:17] <Laney> (you have to go to the notification)
[15:18] <attente> and language("en-DK") == "US English" iirc
[15:18] <Laney> can't remember exactly which ones
[15:18] <Laney> but it was a bit messed up
[15:18] <attente> wait, no. nack that
[15:19] <Laney> this is languageToString(locale.language()) or similar
[15:19] <Laney> what I was trying
[15:19] <mpt> Laney, so, fixable upstream bugs?
[15:19] <Laney> depends how deliberate it is I guess
[15:20] <mpt> Would it help for me to describe the desired behavior so you can link bug reports to it? :-)
[15:20] <Laney> sure, that can't hurt
[15:21] <Laney> there's no variants at all in the mockup we have there now
[15:21] <mpt> That’s because there aren’t any in my wireframe, because I didn’t know they existed
[15:21]  * Laney nods
[15:22] <mpt> What’s the biggest example? en, or fr, or something else?
[15:24] <Laney> not sure
[15:24] <Laney> I think es_ has quite a lot
[15:25] <mpt> Laney, is a table of them published anywhere?
[15:30] <Laney> looking
[15:32] <Laney> mpt: ls /usr/share/i18n/locales
[15:35] <mpt> Huh, there are no un-suffixed locales
[15:36] <mpt> e.g. no "en"
[15:37] <mpt> Laney, so does countryToString() correspond to “territory” in these locale files?
[15:39] <attente> Laney, in qtbase-opensource-src, there's a big list called "likely_subtags" in qlocale_data_p.h
[15:39] <attente> trying to figure out where all those numbers are coming from
[15:42] <Laney> mpt: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6525278/ is a list of all of them
[15:43] <Laney> I don't think we'd display all of those though; ours corresponds to `locale -a'
[15:43] <Laney> that's code - native language name - native country name
[15:43] <mpt> ar - Arabic - Egypt <facepalm/>
[15:44] <mpt> fr - français - France
[15:45] <Laney> I tried taking the native language name from the language-only codes and combining it with the native country name
[15:45] <Laney> that's what fails with en - U.S. English - United States
[15:46] <Laney> attente: seems magic to me
[15:46] <Laney> but it says that en points to en_Latn_US which might be a clue
[15:46] <attente> Laney, http://cldr.unicode.org/index/cldr-spec/language-tag-equivalences
[15:46] <mpt> Laney, and with Arabic and with French as above … Their un-suffixed versions assume a particular country
[15:47] <Laney> mpt: I would ignore the country part there
[15:47] <Laney> unless you mean it makes the language different
[15:48] <mpt> That would work in most cases. It wouldn’t work in spoken Arabic, but this is written Arabic, so
[15:48] <Laney> I meant "combining it with the native country name of the suffixed version"
[15:48] <Laney> attente: ah, fail, so it is deliberate
[15:49] <mpt> Laney, ah, I thought you meant assuming that the unsuffixed one was suitable for generic use
[15:49] <Laney> assuming its 'native language name' is
[15:53] <Laney> pitti: did you commit that glib2.0 upload to debian? (or does it rely on 2.39 somehow?)
[15:54] <pitti> Laney: no, not yet; I haven't tested it in Debian, not sure whether the gdb scripts are already in Debian's version
[15:54] <Laney> doubt it, we were synced until the first 2.39 upload
[15:56] <seb128> Laney, ok, so I'm going to upload pango for the new harfbuzz, giving sweetshark the end of week to try to get libreoffice to build
[15:57] <Laney> or RM!
[15:57] <Laney> (ok, cool)
[15:57] <seb128> Laney, if it doesn't we can remove those from proposed on monday and rebuild webkit again
[15:57] <seb128> does that sound like a plan to you? or do you prefer to rm harfbuzz until we get lo to buil?
[15:57] <seb128> d
[15:58] <Laney> it depends how likely it is that we'll get a fixed version
[15:58] <Laney> i.e. if it will actually be worked on
[15:58] <Laney> there is no point if it definitely will not be
[15:58] <seb128> Laney, Sweetshark said he would have a try to see if it's easy
[15:58] <mpt> Laney, yeah, I don’t see a way of doing it without patching the names of those oddballs: U. S. English, Australian English, British English, français canadien, français suisse, español de España, and español latinoamericano.
[15:59] <mpt> (or however many of those we ship:-)
[15:59] <seb128> Laney, ok, you convinced me to remove harfbuzz, we can easily bring it back
[15:59] <Laney> k
[16:00] <Laney> mpt: Indeed, but I suspect that's a no-go as attente linked to the standard that mandates this behaviour
[16:02] <mpt> Laney, do you mean <http://cldr.unicode.org/index/cldr-spec/language-tag-equivalences>? That requires nothing about language names. We can rename “U. S. English” to “English” while still accepting that en_US is equivalent to en.
[16:04] <attente> mpt, so the objective is to scan through all of the locales, and replace the display language name to their basic forms?
[16:06] <mpt> attente, only for the unsuffixed ones (or those that are equivalent to unsuffixed ones). For example, en/en_US would be “English”, followed by en_AU “English (Australia)”, followed by en_GB “English (United Kingdom)”, etc
[16:07] <mpt> attente, and the reason I want to do that is so that the whole list isn’t cluttered with territory names
[16:07] <ricotz> seb128, Laney, hi, i guess pango and webkit won't have problem with the new harfbuzz, if libreoffice has it could switch to the internal copy in the meantime
[16:08] <Laney> I think it ftbfs for some other reason
[16:08] <attente> mpt, are we still keeping one entry per locale though?
[16:09] <mpt> attente, sure
[16:09] <ricotz> Laney, ok -- still it reasonable to get the new harfbuzz in
[16:09] <seb128> ricotz, the issue is not harfbuzz, is to get libreoffice 4.1 building on the trusty toolchain
[16:09] <Laney> ricotz: it sure is
[16:09] <Laney> but it'll need to wait for libreoffice to build
[16:09] <Laney> you can debug that if you want ;-)
[16:09] <ricotz> seb128, ah ok, so the gcc 4.8 problem
[16:10] <seb128> ricotz, we are going to get the new harfbuzz in 10 days when libreoffice 4.2rc1 is out and is ready to be uploaded to trusty
[16:10] <ricotz> seb128, fair enough
[16:13] <mpt> It’s understandable but awkward that the language names are pre-translated into themselves. It means that the variations of Serbian will be sorted into two places, two under “Српски” and two under “Srpski”.
[16:14] <mpt> oh well
[16:15] <attente> i'm still having some trouble determining where U.S. English is coming from
[16:15] <seb128> mvo, hey, maybe you can help ... when does an installed package has no "candidate" version in apt?
[16:16] <attente> definitely not coming from /usr/share/i18n/locales
[16:19] <Laney> icu isn't it?
[16:20] <attente> well.. looking at the code for languageToString, it seems to be coming from the qtbase-opensource-src package :/
[16:23] <attente> ah. right. but we're using nativeLanguageName...
[16:24] <attente> that's our answer i guess.. just use languageToString
[16:24] <attente> oh. but those aren't translated..'
[16:27]  * mpt tries not to wonder whether all the uncapitalized language names should be capitalized when they appear as menu items
[16:34] <mvo> seb128: hi
[16:34] <mvo> seb128: it means there is nothing that it can download, either because of apt pining or because the package is no longer on the server
[16:34] <mvo> seb128: do you have some mor econtext?
[16:35] <seb128> mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/software-properties/handle-no-candidate/+merge/197917
[16:35] <mvo> seb128: ok, let me have a look, this can probably be fixed
[16:36] <seb128> mvo, weird, I tried to install nvidia-304, removed the restricted source, did an index update and there was still a candidate
[16:36] <seb128> mvo, I'm not sure how to end up in the buggy situation
[16:36] <seb128> mvo, my guess is that those users install binary drivers that then get remove from the archive because they are replaced by newer versions
[16:36] <mvo> seb128: yeah, the thing is - we should probably not display it if there is no candidate as it also means that the user won't be able to install it :)
[16:37] <mvo> seb128: yeah, that would make sense,
[16:38] <seb128> mvo, well, the list includes packages installed/in use
[16:39] <seb128> mvo, you can't drop the driver in use just because it's not on the server anymore :p
[16:39] <seb128> mvo, I was curious why dropping the apt source was not enough to end up with no candidate though
[16:39] <mvo> seb128: aha, yeah, that makes sense, you could display the summary of the installed driver in this case - wnat me to have a look?
[16:40] <mvo> seb128: normally the installed one is the candidate if there is nothing downloadable
[16:40] <seb128> mvo, sure, if you want
[16:40] <mvo> seb128: the situation that it has no candidate is unusual
[16:40] <mvo> seb128: are there more logfile or more clues available? i.e. sources.list and maybe what package/version triggered the crash?
[16:41] <mvo> seb128: is there a LP report (still can't see error.u.c :/)
[16:41] <seb128> mvo, you should ask on #ubuntu-devel about e.u.c that must be an overlook/you probably expired from some team
[16:42] <seb128> mvo, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1164927 seems to be the same
[16:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1164927 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "software-properties-gtk crashed with AttributeError in gather_device_data(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'summary'" [Medium,New]
[16:42] <seb128> mvo, no more info I'm afraid, but it has 1093 reports on e.u.c so it's not uncommon
[16:43] <seb128> mvo, if we need those info we can maybe an apport hook to collect them?
[16:47] <mvo> seb128: hhhmm, does the error report contains more details on error.ubuntu.com ? sources.list would be really nice
[16:48] <seb128> mvo, no, the reports are basically a copy of the launchpad one
[16:48] <seb128> we need an apport hook added to s-p if we want more info
[16:49] <seb128> mvo, you don't have an idea on how that could happen? well in any case checking for None should be good enough to avoid the apport prompts there ... do you think it's still buggy that there is no candidate?
[16:50] <seb128> mvo, to be it's likely what I said, install drivers on e.g saucy, upgrade to trusty, keep using those, oh they get deleted from the archive because e.g -304 becomes -310
[16:50] <seb128> and the install 304 becomes without candidate
[16:50] <seb128> (except that removing the source still give me a candidate there, but I don't understand apt, maybe it's cached?=
[16:52] <mpt> Laney, attente: How does this look? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguageAndText#sorting
[16:53] <mpt> I dropped the trickiness of removing the territory name from the unprefixed variation, to avoid accusations of imperialism :-)
[16:53] <mpt> but that still leaves you with the problem of making sure “en” ends up as “English (US)” and not “U. S. English”
[16:57] <attente> mpt, sure, i can try it
[17:00] <mvo> seb128: yeah, the part I don't quite understand is how this happens if the driver is still installed. or are we playing with /etc/apt/preferences or backports? backports might be a good explaination
[17:01] <seb128> mvo, could be, you know users, crazy bunch :p
[17:01] <mvo> haha, inded
[17:01] <mvo> indeed
[17:01] <seb128> but I don't have more infos, sorry
[17:01] <seb128> maybe pitti would have an idea
[17:01] <mvo> let go with your fix then
[17:02] <seb128> mvo, great
[17:03] <seb128> mvo, bear with me btw, trying to fix bugs in your softwares, I've a list of questions/stuff I don't understand ... ;-) (don't worry, not everything for the same day, I'm keeping other questions for other days :p)
[17:03] <seb128> mvo, oh, and for the record the 3 bugs I chased down this week, they were introduced by people merging refactoring/port to the python3 work in there and not issue in your code
[17:04] <seb128> damn hacker, taking mvo's good code and adding bugs to it!
[17:04]  * mvo hugs seb128
[17:05]  * seb128 hugs mvo back
[17:11] <Laney> doh, armhf ftbfs
[17:13] <seb128> :-(
[17:13] <Laney> I see a probable patch
[17:33]  * Laney stabs the pandaboard
[17:33] <Laney> so slow
[17:33] <Laney> quite pleased it still works though
[17:37] <larsu> after stabbing it? :P
[17:41] <Laney> moar hamsters
[17:48] <mpt> hamsterboard
[19:40] <Sweetshark> Laney, larsu: Im slightly envious of the Linux-Debian-armhf_48 tinderbox, its a ODRIOD-XU http://tinderbox.libreoffice.org/MASTER/status.html
[19:40] <larsu> Sweetshark: nice :)
[19:41]  * larsu is glad he doesn't need to deal with builders that often
[19:42] <ali1234> kenvandine: i got the gtk2 indicator working again. i did it by making it use a different dbus name, so it doesn't conflict with the gtk3 version. i figured this would just make volume control work, but to my surprise music players are still able to communicate with it. any idea why?
[19:44] <larsu> ali1234: which dbus name did you change? Music players work via MPRIS, i.e. they don't find the applet on the bus, but the applet finds them
[19:44] <ali1234> this is what i did: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6526233/
[19:44] <ali1234> i changed the top level dbus name (the one used for service activation)
[19:45] <ali1234> so that the old gtk2 backend gets loaded, instead of the rewritten gtk3 one
[19:46] <larsu> ali1234: which version is that? dbus-shared-names.h doesn't exist anymore...
[19:47] <ali1234> i'm hoping to get this SRU'd because we have a bug with 1000 heat, 100 comments, and 20 dupes, and people threatening to install mint if it isn't fixed
[19:47] <larsu> which bug is that?
[19:47] <ali1234> larsu: it's indicator-sound-gtk2 - it's still the old version
[19:47] <larsu> ah, right
[19:47] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-sound/+bug/1208204
[19:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1208204 in indicator-sound-gtk2 (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged]
[19:48] <larsu> ali1234: what about the other indicators? don't they have the same problem?
[19:48] <ali1234> thee's only one other gtk2 indicator left
[19:48] <larsu> hm, okay
[19:48] <ali1234> and that is appindicators
[19:48] <ali1234> it appears to still work
[19:57] <ali1234> larsu: ah, you're the one who rewrote it all :)
[19:58] <seb128> larsu, that's a leftover fork of an old version because xfce is still on the old gtk...
[19:59] <larsu> ya...
[19:59] <ali1234> so what happened indicator-sound-gtk2 is a totally different source package now, but it's set to depend on indicator-sound for the dbus service, but that dbus service is now radically different
[19:59] <ali1234> but we can't hae two dbus services with the same activation name, so i changed the activation name
[19:59] <larsu> ali1234: right, the indicator architecture changed quite a bit. Services are totally independent of gtk now (because mobile)
[20:00] <ali1234> i guess i can probably drop the dependency on indicator-sound too, and make it a totally different thing
[20:00] <larsu> seb128: we told everyone pretty early that we'll drop gtk2 support after 12.04
[20:00] <seb128> larsu, yeah, not our fault
[20:00] <ali1234> xubuntu won't even use it in 14.04
[20:00] <seb128> larsu, but xfce is still using gtk2
[20:01] <seb128> ali1234, oh, do they plan to go gtk3 or to use something else?
[20:01] <larsu> ali1234: yes, most likely. Also, indicators won't even use dbus activation anymore pretty soon
[20:01] <ali1234> gtk3 indicator support is already done upstream
[20:01] <seb128> what about xfce itself (just curious there)
[20:01] <ali1234> yes, upstream=xfce
[20:01] <ali1234> oh, ... some stuff in xfce is converted to gtk3
[20:02] <ali1234> it's ongoing
[20:02] <seb128> going to land for the LTS?
[20:02] <ali1234> hopefully
[20:02] <seb128> nice
[20:02] <ali1234> depends when they release 4.12
[20:02] <larsu> ali1234: using the new-style indicator services?
[20:03] <ali1234> larsu: hahahaha
[20:03] <ali1234> larsu: gtk3 indicators were working in saucy, then the new style indicators broke it
[20:03] <ali1234> that's why the broken gtk2 indicator got shipped :(
[20:04] <ali1234> but yes, we fixed it for the indicator3 stuff
[20:04] <larsu> ali1234: it's pretty easy to convert to the new style. There's a convinience class in libindicator for that
[20:04] <ali1234> just not in time for the release
[20:04] <larsu> :(
[20:04] <ali1234> please don't break it again
[20:04] <ali1234> at least not for the LTS
[20:05] <larsu> I think somebody already did - they depend on upstart now
[20:05] <ali1234> well, xubuntu uses upstart
[20:05] <larsu> ya, but you need to tell upstart to start the indicator processes instead of just hitting up the names on the bus
[20:05] <ali1234> doesn't the indicator3 wrapper do that?
[20:05] <larsu> don't ask me why, I'm not especially a fan of that
[20:06] <larsu> ali1234: I don't think so
[20:06]  * larsu didn't write it
[20:06] <ali1234> hmm :/
[20:06] <ali1234> well, i'll check that out, thanks
[20:06] <Laney> I restarted my gnome-panel the other day after 30 days or so and don't have some indicators any more :(
[20:06] <Laney> UPSTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
[20:06] <larsu> ali1234: talk to tedg, he has all the answers
[20:06] <Laney> (starting friday early)
[20:06] <larsu> Laney: ya. Don't get me started.
[20:06] <ali1234> yeah maybe this is why we got some bug reports of missing indicators on trusty
[20:07] <seb128> Laney, I'm surprised they still let you work here, unity hater!
[20:07] <Laney> seb128: it's alright, I'm not the worst one
[20:07] <larsu> Laney: incidentally, do you want to patch dbus/upstart so that dbus activation works via upstart?
[20:07]  * Laney looks at desrt
[20:07]  * seb128 hands larsu some hot chocolate (is that the winter version of ice cream?)
[20:07] <Laney> larsu: hahaha
[20:07] <seb128> Laney, lol
[20:07] <larsu> Laney: I hear there's even a start of a patch flying around somewhere
[20:07] <Laney> that already existed in the past you know
[20:07] <larsu> :P
[20:08] <Laney> it was in our dbus and everything
[20:08] <seb128> pitti destroyed it for us
[20:08] <Laney> and if you look for a few seconds you find a funny thread between keybuk and poettering
[20:08]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[20:08] <seb128> (he just updated dbus and didn't update the patches)
[20:08] <larsu> Laney: meh, I don't care about the details :P
[20:08] <larsu> seb128: thanks :)
[20:08] <seb128> (which is understandable, I would probably not want/be able to update those)
[20:08]  * larsu is quite content hacking on evince right now
[20:08] <Laney> no, they need to be upstream
[20:09] <seb128> Laney, there is no upstream dbus anymore with kdbus?
[20:09] <larsu> I have the feeling we'll be dbus upstream in the not-so-distant future
[20:09] <larsu> ya, what seb128 says
[20:09] <seb128> oh, larsu just stepped up
[20:09] <seb128> \o/
[20:09]  * larsu runs away
[20:10] <seb128> larsu, did you just sussssh "attente"?
[20:10] <larsu> ülol
[20:10] <seb128> yeah, that guy has a gut for picking up on challenges
[20:10] <larsu> definitely.
[20:10] <seb128> ;-)
[20:10] <larsu> attente: are you up for it? IM stuff is done, right?
[20:10] <attente> :(
[20:10] <seb128> it's almost friday, can feel it!
[20:10] <seb128> ;-)
[20:11] <attente> :'(
[20:11] <Laney> heh
[20:11] <larsu> it's Friday in some parts of the world
[20:11] <attente> lol
[20:11]  * larsu hands attente some mango sorbet
[20:11]  * seb128 hands attente some hot chocolate as well
[20:11] <seb128> we should stop being mean to him
[20:11] <larsu> ooh, nice combination!
[20:11]  * attente thinks these perks have strings attached
[20:11] <seb128> ;-)
[20:11] <larsu> attente: only one string
[20:11] <larsu> "dbus"
[20:40] <charlie> I want to start developing for ubuntu, but was wondering if its okay/suggested to develop in 14.04 daily build installation?
[20:40] <ali1234> depends what you mean by "develop"
[20:41] <ali1234> if you want to fix existing packages, 14.04 is the place to be. if you want to write new apps, not so much. at least not for your dev machine. maybe for testing machines.
[20:42] <sarnold> or if your applications are targetting 14.04 LTS as the envisioned deployment..
[20:42] <charlie> I plan to start all my dev activities on a virtual box having 14.04 daily builds so that my base ubuntu 13.10 stays safe
[20:42] <charlie> i wanna start with minor bug fixes via LP and bzr
[20:42] <ali1234> that sounds reasonable
[20:42] <charlie> bt eventually move to some app dev too
[20:44] <charlie> ok.. Thanks..
[21:14] <xclaesse> seb128, FYI, that patch is probably needed for ubuntu as well (did not test though): http://sourceforge.net/p/sofia-sip/bugs/121/
[21:15] <seb128> xclaesse, thanks
[23:59] <xnox> Laney: well done =) it's built