[00:04] ali1234: http://www.the3doodler.com/project/hipster-glasses/ [00:04] has a pdf [01:05] gah, anyone know about sendmail? Some mails my server sends arrive, some don't, and I don't know why [01:05] i know a little bit [01:06] do you really use sendmail, or postfix? [01:14] I believe it's actually sendmail [01:14] how can I tell? [01:15] aquarius: Probably because your ip (assuming it be static) is included in some blacklist. [01:15] ali1234, it seems to be actually sendmail [01:16] vipintruder, I don't believe that that's the problem, because I get the mails (using gmail, although forwarded from my isp's mail server) and others using gmail don't [01:16] check for /var/spool/postfix [01:16] it might be the problem, but I don't know how to work that out. The mail's being sent from an Azure server, running discourse. [01:16] if you find it, look for bounces and other errors [01:17] and it's not a static IP: the machine gets a dhcp addrss [01:17] ali1234, the logs either don't tell me what the problem is, or they do and I just don't understand it. [01:17] make sure that your canonical domain name is actually correct for the mails you are sending [01:17] ok, good [01:17] ok [01:17] ie make sure you're not sending mail from root@azureserver12345.microsoft.com [01:17] that's not going to work [01:18] also make sure you have configured spf for your domain [01:19] ali1234, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6522739/ are the relevant lines for one email send attempt from /var/log/mail.log [01:19] ali1234, what's a canonical domain name? [01:19] i mean fully qualified domain name... [01:20] "DSN: Service unavailable" seemed like a relevant error message but I don't think it is; googling it comes up with a zillion people who have it, and a bunch of answers which aren't helpful. [01:20] ali1234, well. the machine that this is running on is an Azure VM. community.badvoltage.org resolves to that VM. The mail is being sent from info@badvoltage.org. As noted, some emails do get through, so they're not all dying. [01:21] that log says the message was accepted [01:21] maybe you are getting greylisted (setting up SPF should fix that) [01:22] OK. I run this box, but jono has the DNS for badvoltage.org. Is SPF a DNS thing? That is: does jono need to set it up? [01:22] you don't appear to have any SPF records [01:22] yes it is a DNS thing [01:23] basically, in SPF, you add a entry in your domain that isn't a hostname: instead it says "this IP address/host is allowed to send mail from badvoltage.org" [01:24] worryingly, I am reasonably sure that jono has the DNS for badvoltage.org at 1and1, and according to http://faq.1and1.co.uk/communication/e_mail/general/9.html they don't let you set up SPF records. [01:24] 1and1 are craaaaaaaaaaap [01:24] move it to gandi.net [01:24] If I have to ask him to move the DNS I will, but before I do that, are we sure that SPF is the problem here? [01:25] I don't want to go through a bunch of hassle like that and then discover that the *actual* problem is that I need to put work_properly=yes in /etc/sendmail/conf :) [01:25] not until you get a bounce, or the mail goes through (then you can look at the headers to see what happened) [01:26] mails should never just disappear [01:26] ah! I have got mail from that box. I can look at the headers of a mail which arrived and garner some clues? [01:26] what am I looking for/ [01:26] ? [01:26] "SPF verification failed" or something [01:26] but SPF is checked by the receiver, so they'll all have different rules for what to do if it's not set up [01:27] there's two TLS failures in that snippet [01:28] which I believe are from two separate emails [01:28] ali1234, SPF lines in the headers of a mail that arrived are: [01:28] Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 95.142.156.6 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of info@badvoltage.org) client-ip=95.142.156.6; [01:28] Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; [01:28] spf=neutral (google.com: 95.142.156.6 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of info@badvoltage.org) smtp.mail=info@badvoltage.org [01:28] one going to 1and1 and the other going to google [01:28] diddledan, ah, I might have snipped too much out of the logs? [01:28] "neither permitted nor denied" means you don't have a SPF record [01:28] which you don't [01:29] some servers will just let that through, other will greylist (which in practice means delay for 30 minutes) [01:29] the mail.log snippet you posted doesn't look like thats what happened though [01:30] Now, my mail goes to my ISP, which I have set to forward the mail directly to my gmail account. (That is: it is not collected at my ISP and then POP3ed off by gmail; my ISP forwards the mail to gmail.) Might that make a difference? Specifically, if my ISP doesn't care about SPF, might it accept the mail and then forward to gmail (and gmail then accepts it), but sending it straight *to* gmail might get rfused becaus G [01:30] oogle themselves *do* care about SPF? [01:30] no, they don't [01:30] when i was fixing this, i could always send to my gmail [01:30] OK, so that's not the reason that mails aren't arriving :( [01:31] so, if setting up an SPF record isn't the solution... what else might it be? === JamesTait is now known as Guest62879 [01:31] using a wrong from: or reply-to: address [01:31] aquarius: the only failures I see in that log are related to TLS [01:31] can i log into your site and try to get it to email me? [01:31] aquarius: one of the tls errors was from google [01:32] so an email destined to google failed to get delivered because you failed to verify their ssl cert [01:32] ali1234, I can send a "test" email to an address of your choice from discourse, if that'll help [01:32] a.j.buxton@gmail.com [01:32] diddledan, hm, that sounds relevant. [01:32] i'll have a look at the headers, if it arrives [01:33] ali1234, test email sent [01:33] diddledan, why wouldn't the machine be able to verify google's ssl cert? [01:33] nothing yet... [01:33] aquarius: likely an openssl issue - do you have the ca-certificates deb installed? [01:34] and... it says "Message accepted for delivery"?Or is that sendmail itself saying "ok, calling process, I accept that email and now I'll try and send it to the relevant mail server"? [01:34] diddledan, yes. ii ca-certificates 20111211 Common CA certificates [01:35] the latter. accepted for delivery means this server believes that the originating server is allowed to relay (or deliver) via this host [01:35] OK. So that "accepted for delivery" does not mean that *GMail* has accepted the mail for delivery, it means *sendmail on my server* has accepted it and will now attempt to deliver it to gmail. [01:36] which suggests, then, that the next line, which is a STARTTLS verify=FAIL, is relevant, as diddledan says [01:36] I have the ca-certificates package installed [01:36] that does seem quite a reasonable explanation [01:37] I do note that like 8 also has verify=FAIL for 1und1's MX, yet that seems to work [01:37] line 8, rather [01:37] you can use openssl directly to connect to google from your server: openssl s_client -starttls smtp -connect gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com:25 [01:37] if it connects then I'm wrong [01:38] diddledan, you are, then, wrong [01:38] well, by the look of it you are [01:39] if you get a line similar to "verify error:num=20:unable to get local issuer certificate" then there _might_ be an issue [01:39] I get that line on os x though but it still connects [01:39] diddledan, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6522782/ [01:40] ya, it connects. It does give that line about the local issuer cert, but it still connects and I can talk to it [01:41] aquarius: what is actually happening in that original log you posted? [01:41] last thing is does is send an email to info@ via 1and1 [01:41] is that a message like "email failed to send" [01:41] or is it unrelated? [01:41] ali1234, someone tried to sign up to Discourse. It sends them the "click on this link to verify your account" email. [01:41] it is possible that I have included too many lines in the log [01:42] specifically, I don't think that any email *arrived* at info@badvoltage.org. [01:42] * aquarius asks jono [01:43] curious, is the hostname really 'default'? [01:43] so, the clue then is i guess DSN: Service unavailable [01:43] so it may indeed be that an "it went wrong" message got sent to info@badvoltage.org, and that "it wnt wrong" message never got delivered either [01:43] no, it did [01:43] stat=Sent (Message 0LtnVJ-1Ve1kp2N6b-0119yR accepted by mxeu5.kundenserver.de) [01:44] "DSN: Service unavailable" is a wildly useless error message, because there are a trillion hits for it and the responses on every forum in the land are things like "are you sure your DNS works?" :( [01:44] can you send a test message to... al@drumoff.tv [01:45] hm. So this looks like some sort of related message was sent to info@badvoltage.org, and we didn't get that message (which probably contains useful debugging info) [01:45] well you should have... 1and1 received it [01:45] test email sent to al@drumoff.tv [01:45] yeah. I don't know where info@badvoltage.org goes, though. [01:46] need to find an email that can receive directly the message... and then look at the headers [01:46] shauno: where do you see "default"? [01:46] ali1234: 4th field in the log [01:46] that could be the problem, if the FQDN is wrong (and it usually is on ubuntu vhosts) [01:47] oh yeah, every line [01:47] ah. Now, "hostname" said "default". So I did "sudo hostname community.badvoltage.org" to set it [01:47] I do not know what I need to do to make that take effect, though [01:48] first you need to set it in /etc/hostname so it gets set after reboob [01:48] sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart [01:49] THEN ideally you'd set the RDNS on the server's ip to also be community.badvoltage.org - some email servers are picky about reverse dns [01:49] vipintruder, um.... I'm sshed into it. [01:49] ok [01:49] ali1234: the log entries linked, it should go timestamp hostname process[pid]: text [01:49] vipintruder, if I restart networking, it'll boot me off, won't it? Will I be able to get back on? [01:49] I was just curious if 'default' actually is the hostname; if it was just sanitizing logs, or if something is altogether weird in the name resolution [01:49] aquarius: you won't get back on if the network doesn't finish restarting [01:50] changing the hostname doesn't require network reset though [01:50] I don't think I can make the machine's IP reverse-dns to community.badvoltage.org, because it's an azure box; it's juju-azure-cw1co66xeo.cloudapp.net [01:50] ok, I have edited /etc/hostname [01:50] yes, ofcourse. [01:51] according to what i just read, the email sent to info@ should contain the exact error google's mailserver sent [01:51] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mail.sendmail/i2zZ4BVqd9E [01:51] in that case then I'd change the sendmail config to get sendmail to report that it _is_ juju-azure..... [01:51] that way the reverse dns matches with the smtp identifier [01:52] the sent-from email addresses don't need to change from community though [01:52] ali1234, right. I have asked jono to try and find those emails :) [01:52] it's a wire-level issue [01:53] where does sendmail keep its config? [01:53] from memory it's an evil pre-parsed m4-based config that gets compiled [01:53] aha /etc/mail/sendmail.conf [01:54] they might have moved away from that though - my memory is from the 90s [01:54] and my memory might be confusing it with exim [01:54] and /etc/mail/sendmail.cf [01:55] # my official domain name [01:55] # ... define this only if sendmail cannot automatically determine your domain [01:55] #Dj$w.Foo.COM [01:55] that's in sendmail.cf [01:55] I hope so. it used to be that sendmail's config files were dark incantations [01:55] but... can it automatically determine my domain? [01:55] probably not if it is using "default" [01:56] it should tell you in the logs on a restart what hostname it's using - OR you could connect to the smtp port and see what it reports in the welcome [01:56] I can't see anywhere in /etc/mail/sendmail.* where it mentions "default" as a hostname [01:56] <3 textual protocols [01:56] well it won't... that's a default... [01:56] $ telnet localhost 25 says 220 default.juju-azure-cw1co66xeo.f3.internal.cloudapp.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-2ubuntu2.1; Thu, 5 Dec 2013 01:56:31 GMT; (No UCE/UBE) logging access from: localhost(OK)-localhost [127.0.0.1] [01:57] that "internal" address looks a bit wrong. [01:57] doesn't seem to resolve [01:57] that's very likely to be what it calls itself when it hello's strangers then [01:57] that could be the problem [01:58] ahahahaha! [01:58] google are famously fussy about that .. it started biting people recently because they've started to expect the same on ipv6 too [01:58] I have the bouncy emails. [01:58] I say Ehllo these days [01:58] after 30 minute delay? [01:59] no, but it was in another account, and gmail put the bounce message into spam because it's a bounce from a message that gmail didn't see me send :) [01:59] IP blocked for spam. Dammit. [01:59] \o/ [01:59] I suspect gmail may be blocking lots of azure [01:59] indeed [01:59] <<< 550-5.7.1 [138.91.52.164 1] Our system has detected an unusual rate of [01:59] <<< 550-5.7.1 unsolicited mail originating from your IP address. To protect our [01:59] <<< 550-5.7.1 users from spam, mail sent from your IP address has been blocked. [01:59] <<< 550-5.7.1 Please visit http://www.google.com/mail/help/bulk_mail.html to review [01:59] <<< 550 5.7.1 our Bulk Email Senders Guidelines. za4si33673866wjc.96 - gsmtp [01:59] aquarius: i just got your first test email [02:00] which is why a lot of cloud services often have cloudy smtp relays [02:00] you pay extra to access them though [02:00] amazon call theirs SNS [02:00] IIRC [02:00] be warned their 'guidelines' are very likely to be impossibly vague [02:00] no, not sns [02:00] oh wait, no, it's the second one [02:00] via gandi [02:01] SES is amazon's [02:02] simple email service [02:02] I'm on azure. Not sure if they have one [02:02] X-Policy: Greylisted 300 seconds [02:02] no, I'm not sure about azure either [02:02] there's no such thing as a simple email service :/ smtp is the work of the devil [02:02] if you set up SPF it might cancel out the badness [02:02] shauno: yeah [02:02] SPF eliminates the work of the devil? wow [02:02] yeah, google's "bulk email guidelines" say "we recommend you set up spf", but not with any sort of "and if you do that'll fix it" thing [02:03] Received: from default.juju-azure-cw1co66xeo.f3.internal.cloudapp.net (unknown [138.91.52.164]) <- fixing that might also help [02:03] and I really don't want to hassle jono to move the dns from 1and1 if it won't fix the problem... [02:03] they never promise it'll fix it. they're very defensive of their spam filter, and don't want to give spammers any real clues how to avoid it [02:03] and a very good spam filter it is too [02:03] spam filtering is very similar to search engine ranking - you don't want to show anyone how it's done [02:04] but things like spf, dkim do make mails do lend an air of legitimacy [02:04] you should move everything you possibly can away from 1and1 anyway... they are rubbish [02:04] okay, that wasn't a sentence, which means it's bedtime [02:04] shauno: do you still have a 1&1 vps? :-p [02:05] I still have a hosting account with them, because I'm grandfathered into their free-for-life deal when they launched in the US [02:05] * diddledan refers shauno to ali1234's previous comment [02:05] freeforlife?! [02:05] wtf? [02:05] ali1234, not up to me. *My* DNS is not with 1and1 :) [02:06] it's just shared hosting though, and rarely gets used for anything. I just keep it alive because .. it's free [02:06] heh [02:06] I have my names with gandi because they don't act like ipv6 glue is witchcraft, and host my nameserver myself [02:07] I need to host my own nameservers [02:07] i don't need t host my own anything [02:07] ali1234: but you want to, right? :-p [02:07] most likely you don't need to. most likely I don't need to :) [02:08] diddledan: NO [02:08] although tying bind9 to apple's global-bonjour stuff is cheaper than acid [02:08] i especially don't want any of this cloud nonsense [02:08] cloud is awesome [02:08] not until it's actually completely transparent and i don't have to care about it [02:08] though I'm hosting ordinary servers [02:09] on* [02:12] well... this is bleedin' annoying, then. [02:12] doing spf and dkim and things is hell on legs [02:12] azure don't provide an smtp server [02:13] SendGrid do, and give me 25,000 emails per month. Will that be enough? Perhaps. [02:15] for dkim I should point out, unless you control every mailserver this domain will use, it won't work [02:16] spf is much easier because you just have to list them all [03:59] hello [04:00] I'm using Motorola droid RAZR [04:00] i installed Ubuntu quantal in my mobile [04:01] its working but it is not working on saucy [04:02] anyone there [05:31] * MartijnVdS pushes AlanBell 's campaign over the £2500 edge [06:57] MartijnVdS: there's a £2500 edge? I thought the indiegogo edge campain didn't reach it's however many meelions :-p [07:01] morning all [07:02] congrats AlanBell on reaching your target for the pi's :D [07:19] +1 [07:19] morning foobarry [07:32] morning [07:33] somebody made the adobe password crossword from xkcd http://zed0.co.uk/crossword/ [07:34] haha :) [07:34] yeah saw that before, took me ages to figure out how to do it :D [07:39] who calls their dog "shadow"? === iahmad is now known as iahmad|brb === iahmad|brb is now known as iahmad [08:08] now AlanBell and co. are funded, can the still shot from the youtube vid show a happy face now? [08:11] \o/ [08:11] lol [08:11] foobarry: I will probably do another video [08:12] AlanBell: Dancing naked round a pile of Raspberry Pi - bit like in Wicker Man. Something like that maybe? [08:12] oooohhhh [08:13] I might make one or two changes to that plan [08:13] Calm down Myrtti [08:13] hacker skill badges [08:13] http://www.adafruit.com/category/70 [08:13] gonna be a long day. baby hasnt stopped whining since < 6am [08:14] foobarry: been there :D [08:16] I might need more tea, I read baby as body and was going to say something that agrees (pain sucks, what sucks more is an Adobe Connect meeting I had to drag myself into at 7, and not having time to get a drink to get a painkiller) [08:16] lol @ magic blue smoke badge [08:17] wow, these are real? http://www.natureknows.org/2013/11/amazing-macro-photography-of-individual.html?m=1 [08:18] foobarry: those scare me -- because I equate them with the andromeda strain === iahmad is now known as iahmad|afk [08:23] I love the water jet badge [08:30] now that the global jam has been announced for next year, do we do anything for it? [08:32] We should. [08:36] I've put the date in my diary so if there is a party as well ;) i'd like to go to this one :D [08:37] * TheOpenSourcerer is starving after all that driving yesterday. Thinking *BACON* [08:38] nativity today [08:38] w00t! [08:38] front row reserved seats ㋛ [08:38] next wednesday afternoon for me. [08:38] My youngest on doing the sound at his... Don;t think my eldest's has one this year (Double Yay!) [08:39] Sam is "Mouse #1" [08:39] ha ha ha [08:39] my son has been practising "little donkey" every night for the past 2 weeks :D [08:40] Monty's school is really quite big for a primary (~500 kids). It gets really *painful* when they have to try and get all of them on stage at some point through the evening... They have lots of singers ;-) [08:40] hehe [08:40] Villager #128 [08:41] Exactly. [08:41] lol [08:41] http://www.waverley-abbey.surrey.sch.uk/site/ [08:45] \o/ http://www.hawleyplace.com/ [08:46] http://www.st-wilfrids.ik.org/ [08:47] oooh christmas lunch [08:47] wish I could sneak in and have some ☻ [08:49] My eldest son's "big" school: http://www.weydonschool.surrey.sch.uk/ === iahmad|afk is now known as iahmad [08:57] i dont remember mice in the nativity..i thought they herded the kids in as sheep [09:30] Good morning all; happy Ninja Day! :-D [09:34] JamesTait: I already said morning, but you didn't see me COZ I'M A NINJA ;) [09:34] popey: airfix/scaletrix/honbry reminder :P [09:34] MooDoo, nice. ;) [09:35] today is the scalextric endor set [09:35] i think all the answers are (b) today [09:36] foobarry: trains? on endor?! [09:36] uh [09:36] racing cars, on endor?! [09:36] slot racing [09:36] speederbikes [09:37] ah, of course [09:40] foobarry: Whut? [09:41] huh? [09:42] is it me or is the ubuntu-uk mailing list quiet? has there really been nothing since the 23rd nov, or is it me? [09:43] TwistedLucidity: aformentioned companies have a free competition every day of december to win free stuffs [09:43] foobarry: Ah, I see. [09:43] MooDoo: Nope, thats right [09:43] MooDoo: it is oh so quiet [09:43] AlanBell: shhhh shhhhh ;) [09:44] AlanBell: well done on the pi thing :D [09:49] AlanBell: yeah, I saw it at 2477 [09:50] AlanBell: I just had to fix that ;) [09:50] :) thanks [10:06] Good morning peeps :) [10:09] what's happened to linux format? most of the team quit? [10:10] didn't they start a kickstarter? [10:10] seems so. and they want subs up front before we've seen a magazine [10:11] looks like they'll make it [10:13] has anyone seen LF since? [10:13] I'm subbed to LF [10:13] i used to read the other one for 5yrs [10:13] Been debating cancelling it for the last 6 months but I'm lazy [10:14] It's imo gone downhill over the last year, way to many adverts for my liking as well [10:14] And the stuff they put in it, I'd rather a magazine without the disc as well [10:14] sounds like you're their target customer for the kickstarter mag then [10:15] Debated about trying the more dev/sysadmin which the name of has totalleft left my mind atm [10:15] linux magazine? [10:15] linux journal? [10:17] the trouble with mags is that they are generally written by people who also write g+ posts and blogs about stuff [10:17] which i read, but isn't essential "learning", its just casual reading [10:19] yeah mine are always found in the loo :) I just read them when the kids are having a bath or other stuff :) [10:19] Linux User/Developer was the one [10:32] foobarry: The ex-LXFers are now doing "Linux Voice" and the fundraiser is on Indiegogo [10:33] yep, i was wondering about the effect on LF [10:33] have they killed the mag? the only regular linux mag on the supermarket shelves? [10:34] What I dislike about LXF is the way the gloss over important stuff. When they did "ownCloud" the mentioned that you needed to secure it. No where did they discuss *HOW*. [10:34] What they should have done was run one article about "ownCloud" and then a second (next month?) about how to secure the wee bugger. [10:34] i find all magazines too formulaic [10:35] Directory permission, mod-security etc etc [10:35] whether it's photography or linux or other [10:35] They have to catch everyone, so some articles will be too simple, others too complex. But to just ignore something as important as security....yeesh. [10:37] Although I guess "security" encompasses so much they'd have to start with "Re-wiring your home network to create a DMZ" [10:38] :q [10:38] I hate that consumer routers have a "DMZ Address" setting which doesn't deserve the name DMZ at all - a DMZ is supposed to be segregated, not just a host on the lan that has everything forwarded to it [10:39] diddledan: \o/ openwrt, where you can put it on a second vlan :) [10:39] diplo: was that a smilie or a vim command in the wrong window? :-p [10:39] diddledan: (also, I get a /48 from my ISP, giving me 2^16 /64s to distribute that way) [10:40] MartijnVdS: yeah vlans are nifty [10:40] I bought a nice Buffalo dd-wrt router. I thought it would be easy enough to assign one port as a DMZ. Can I do that? Can I feck. All the ports are bridged in some odd way. [10:40] TwistedLucidity: dd-wrt is very closed/weird in a lot of ways [10:40] openwrt is much more recognisable for command-line people :) [10:40] openwrt bundle a damned webui now tho which really sucks [10:40] most consumer routers support vlans these days [10:41] diddledan: yeah, luci is bad [10:41] MartijnVdS: I think, from reading, it's a hardware limitation. I have considered flashing in with OpenWRT, but the risk is too great. [10:41] perhaps not in the webif, but in the hardware they do [10:41] ali1234: top-end ones, maybe. Lower-end ones don't. [10:41] ali1234: they might have hardware support for them, but it's rarely exposed in the ui [10:41] TwistedLucidity: what's the model/type? [10:42] MartijnVds: Buffalo AirStation Nfiniti WZR-HP-AG300H-EU [10:43] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25138271 [10:43] I can separate WifI easily enough (so I have an isolated guest network there), can't do dick with the LAN though. [10:43] I'll just leave that there and see if anyone bites [10:44] TwistedLucidity: ah, region-based firmwares.. eek [10:44] TwistedLucidity: though I've added serial consoles to all of my TP-Links 8-) [10:44] MartijnVdS: ? [10:44] diddledan: my kids would love that :) [10:45] TwistedLucidity: I have several TP-Link routers, all of which I've flashed with OpenWRT [10:45] run out of maryland cookies...onto the backup biscuits [10:45] bourbons [10:45] MooDoo: it's perfect for bathtime [10:45] TwistedLucidity: and I've soldered pins onto the serial "holes" so I can recover from bad flashes [10:45] always keep a backup [10:45] MartijnVds: I meant the "region-based" thing. Why wouldn't they be region based? [10:46] I bought this Buffalo thinking it was decent kit as, from the docs, it seemed to do everything. [10:46] TwistedLucidity: Oh, the US version can only access 11 channels, but can send a more powerful signal [10:46] TwistedLucidity: compared to the EU version, for example [10:46] Of course, I don't wuite "get" networking so I could well be missing something [10:46] MartijnVdS: I guess the local regulations differ? [10:47] TwistedLucidity: they do, and usually that's just a switch in the web interface [10:47] the wifi in the uk is restricted to 100mW max - including any gain from the antenna - if you put a high-gain antenna on you have to reduce the drive by an equivalent amount to remain legal [10:47] diddledan: yeah and 100mW gets you *nowhere* [10:47] we have the same rule in .nl [10:48] increasing the router power doesn't help the return signal of course. it's pretty much pointless [10:48] 100mW ERP [10:48] if you have a 10dBi antenna, you still get the same radiated power but ten times gain on receive [10:48] Well, the signal is fine. It's on the floor below and I have on antenna blasting the lower floor/back garden, the other point up to cover the upper floor. Seems to work. [10:49] TwistedLucidity: I manage wifi for a caravan park (in a forest) [10:49] as an aded bonus if you've got a directional antenna you can often avoid local interference sources [10:49] Leafy trees should be banned. [10:49] * gordonjcp runs about 5W ERP on 2.4GHz [10:49] MartijnVdS: I bet you hate the summertime then :-p [10:49] Over Chrimbo I'll try to prat around with the network ports again. Thing is, there's two telecommuters in this house and the Interent *MUST WORK* all the time. If I break the link, I am in the shit. [10:50] diddledan: we've just added a few extra "cells" of wifi to increase "summer coverage", yes [10:50] gordonjcp: I guess you're not uk-based? [10:50] diddledan: yes, I am [10:51] how'd you get the transmit power up to 5W then?! [10:51] that's not fair [10:51] power amp [10:51] I want my wifis to be uber, too [10:51] * diddledan pouts [10:51] occasionally I run about 300W ERP [10:52] ERP: Echo Rebound Potato? [10:52] equivalent radiated power? [10:53] diddledan: yes [10:53] diddledan: That sounds more like it. But I still like the idea of some kind of mental potato gun transmitter. :-) [10:53] either that or estimated retail price [10:53] round at a mate's house I've had a crack at a few tens of kW ERP ;-) [10:53] wow [10:54] yeah, I fancy getting my hands on a GSM base station transmitter and wiring it up to asterisk [10:54]