| knome | ali1234, did you get your hands on the linux identity magazine already? | 00:18 |
|---|---|---|
| ochosi | ali1234: i never received a copy of that (weren't they sent out at some point?) | 00:20 |
| knome | ochosi, seriously? crap. | 00:21 |
| ochosi | yeah | 00:21 |
| knome | ochosi, do you want a paper copy? | 00:21 |
| ochosi | i forgot about it again | 00:21 |
| ochosi | well, if you have a digital copy, that's fine as well | 00:21 |
| knome | you should contact sonny... | 00:21 |
| ochosi | don't wanna waste paper or money for the post | 00:22 |
| knome | hmm. | 00:22 |
| knome | i might | 00:22 |
| ochosi | and it's ok, i know what i wrote ;) | 00:22 |
| knome | i have some non-final PDF exports | 00:22 |
| knome | i could see if i find the final version | 00:22 |
| knome | or ask sonny for one | 00:23 |
| knome | nah, i don't have | 00:23 |
| knome | maybe pleia2 has | 00:23 |
| ochosi | alrighty, i'm off, night everyone! | 00:24 |
| knome | nighty | 00:24 |
| bluesabre | slickymaster: looks good to me | 01:11 |
| === GridCube_ is now known as GridCube | ||
| ali1234 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-network/+bug/1185565 | 08:28 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 1185565 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Indicators should have Upstart jobs" [Medium,In progress] | 08:28 |
| ali1234 | brainwash: what happens if you run this in a terminal: "init --user --startup-event indicator-services-start & xfce4-panel -r" | 08:36 |
| ali1234 | brainwash: scratch that. try this: "initctl emit indicator-services-start && xfce4-panel -r" | 09:20 |
| ochosi_ | ali1234: i presume this test is mostly valuable in trusty? | 09:24 |
| ali1234 | ochosi_: only in trusty :) | 09:24 |
| ali1234 | ochosi_: see #ubuntu-desktop | 09:25 |
| === ochosi_ is now known as ochsoi | ||
| === ochsoi is now known as ochosi | ||
| ochosi | ali1234: very cool of you to check that out now | 09:27 |
| ali1234 | well i don't want us to get stuck on -gtk2 yet again because the -gtk3 indicators changed and nobody noticed | 09:28 |
| ali1234 | we might have to distropatch this in though | 09:28 |
| ali1234 | but hey, it's two lines | 09:28 |
| ochosi | why distropatch? is anyone outside ubuntu using indicators? | 09:30 |
| ali1234 | yes, arch | 09:30 |
| ochosi | actually it might be interesting at some point to support gnome3 indicators | 09:30 |
| ali1234 | has the full unity stack | 09:30 |
| ochosi | if that's at all possible | 09:31 |
| ochosi | ah, cool | 09:31 |
| ali1234 | well, i'm not touching anything gnome3 :P | 09:31 |
| ochosi | ;) | 09:31 |
| ali1234 | they will probably be written in javascript and html and require linking the panel against webkit | 09:32 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| Unit193 | ochosi: IIRC, Ubuntu hasn't even had a real release with gtk3 indicators... | 09:37 |
| Unit193 | ali1234: Arch has everything, well almost, not sure if they got mir working. | 09:37 |
| ali1234 | what do you mean? | 09:38 |
| ali1234 | ubuntu has used exclusively gtk3 indicators since at least 12.04 | 09:39 |
| ochosi | ali1234: quick question, for panel-switch's UI, would you want a mockup or something in glade? | 09:51 |
| ali1234 | either | 09:51 |
| ali1234 | i don't really know how to use glade | 09:51 |
| ochosi | ok | 09:52 |
| ochosi | well i can do something simplistic in inkscape then | 09:52 |
| ochosi | i presume you'll do a gtk3 UI? | 09:52 |
| ali1234 | meh. | 09:53 |
| ali1234 | you going to use gtk3 only stuff in the design? | 09:54 |
| ochosi | nah | 09:55 |
| ochosi | only standard widgets that exist in both worlds | 09:55 |
| ochosi | so theoretically you should be able to make it build with gtk2 and 3 | 09:55 |
| ali1234 | well it's python... there is no "build" | 09:55 |
| ochosi | ok | 09:57 |
| slickymaster | morning all | 10:02 |
| knome | morning slickymaster | 10:08 |
| knome | slickymaster, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FrontPageRefresh | 10:08 |
| knome | ;) | 10:08 |
| slickymaster | hi knome, good morning | 10:09 |
| slickymaster | I'll take a more thorough look at home, tonight | 10:09 |
| slickymaster | but it looks much better | 10:09 |
| knome | sure | 10:09 |
| knome | not much has changed since the last time | 10:10 |
| slickymaster | well, it has now a more aesthetically appealing | 10:10 |
| knome | heh, yep | 10:10 |
| knome | do you have some time do discuss the content-related stuff now, or should we postpone that for the evening as well? | 10:11 |
| slickymaster | by the way, if you feel like wasting a few minutes of your time, https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/mugshot/+merge/197873 is ready for review and possible merge | 10:11 |
| knome | ah, i could do that possibly later | 10:11 |
| slickymaster | I would prefer to do it after dinner, 21:00 UTC | 10:12 |
| slickymaster | is that good for you | 10:12 |
| knome | ok, that works | 10:12 |
| slickymaster | bluesabre already gave its ok to the test http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/12/06/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t01:11 | 10:13 |
| knome | ah, cool | 10:14 |
| knome | then i should get to that a bit faster | 10:14 |
| slickymaster | I'm try to see if I can manage to finish http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs by today | 10:16 |
| slickymaster | trying ^^ | 10:17 |
| ochosi | slickymaster: sweet! | 10:17 |
| slickymaster | but it's not going to be easy | 10:17 |
| slickymaster | morning ochosi :) | 10:17 |
| knome | i believe the mugshot test is a completely new one? | 10:18 |
| slickymaster | I've already made same changes to http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:command-line | 10:18 |
| knome | ochosi, want to answer the user on #x? | 10:18 |
| slickymaster | yes its knome | 10:18 |
| knome | ;)= | 10:18 |
| slickymaster | it is ^^ | 10:18 |
| * slickymaster fingers are completely frozen | 10:18 | |
| knome | heh, cold in there? | 10:19 |
| slickymaster | not like in Finland, but pretty damn cold for a mediterranean autumn | 10:19 |
| slickymaster | right now 3º C | 10:20 |
| slickymaster | and the heating is broken at work | 10:20 |
| knome | awh | 10:22 |
| knome | i don't think it's *too* cold outside here either | 10:22 |
| knome | says +1 :) | 10:22 |
| slickymaster | :) | 10:23 |
| ochosi | ali1234: this is a very minimal starting point: http://imagebin.org/280849 | 10:28 |
| ochosi | ali1234: the save button is supposed to save the current layout under a new name (so it's actually a save-as button) | 10:28 |
| ochosi | knome: in case you also wanna take a look at the mockup ^ | 10:29 |
| knome | k | 10:33 |
| ali1234 | yeah that's pretty much what i was imagining | 10:38 |
| knome | slickymaster, test for mugshot is merged and in the tracker | 10:39 |
| slickymaster | thanks knome, time to start https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1256898 | 10:50 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 1256898 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : xfce4 session handling" [Undecided,In progress] | 10:50 |
| ochosi | ali1234: for loading new layouts into the thing, i thought just DND it into the window | 10:51 |
| ochosi | at first i was also thinking about a reset button or something, but it's somehow too confusing | 10:51 |
| ochosi | (reset to what?) | 10:51 |
| ochosi | i guess something like a popup-dialog on the apply button saying "your current layout will be lost, really apply?" would be better | 10:52 |
| brainwash | ali1234: http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=8481 | 11:01 |
| ali1234 | brainwash: yeah, fixed | 11:01 |
| brainwash | ali1234: should I test and emit the signal for the indicator or does it not work | 11:01 |
| ali1234 | when thepatches get pulled | 11:01 |
| ali1234 | brainwash: give it a try. it might act a bit funny though | 11:02 |
| ali1234 | like the initctl command might hang | 11:02 |
| ali1234 | if so just reload the panel on another terminal | 11:02 |
| brainwash | ok | 11:02 |
| ochosi | ali1234: want me to attach the mockup to the xubuntu-wiki page for panel-switch? | 11:04 |
| ali1234 | sure | 11:05 |
| ali1234 | brainwash: where did you see those errors about "No watchers" | 11:06 |
| brainwash | ali1234: xsession log | 11:11 |
| brainwash | so the command did get stuck, but it worked somewhat | 11:11 |
| brainwash | however, the nm-applet still showed up as gtkstatusicon | 11:12 |
| ali1234 | yes, that is a different bug | 11:13 |
| brainwash | seems related | 11:14 |
| elfy | Unit193: not really sure what you mean | 11:14 |
| elfy | hey brainwash | 11:14 |
| brainwash | if my sync indicator is able to load properly, then nm-applet did also | 11:15 |
| brainwash | elfy: hi :) | 11:15 |
| ali1234 | brainwash: see #ubuntu-desktop | 11:15 |
| brainwash | so back to dbus activation? | 11:16 |
| ali1234 | not unless we patch it back in | 11:17 |
| ochosi | good you got a hold of tedg though | 11:19 |
| elfy | any logs for yesterday's meeting ochosi ? | 11:20 |
| slickymaster | here you go elfy http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-12-05-19.00.html | 11:21 |
| slickymaster | good morning ;) | 11:21 |
| elfy | ty slickymaster | 11:21 |
| ochosi | ah, too late... | 11:27 |
| elfy | never too late ochosi - you would have :) | 11:28 |
| ali1234 | brainwash: try putting INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes in /etc/environment and restart | 11:38 |
| brainwash | that var name :D | 11:39 |
| brainwash | let me test | 11:39 |
| ali1234 | seems to work good for me | 11:40 |
| brainwash | ali1234: works | 11:49 |
| ali1234 | brainwash: completely? | 11:55 |
| brainwash | seems so | 11:55 |
| ali1234 | cool | 11:55 |
| ali1234 | that's an easy fix then, and tedg agreed it is a bug and should get fixed | 11:56 |
| ali1234 | infact i'm gonna do a branch | 11:56 |
| brainwash | yet another branch :) | 11:56 |
| ali1234 | i just posted the gtk2 fix ppa on the bug report and ML thread | 11:56 |
| ali1234 | brainwash: well this is a bug in libindicator3 | 11:57 |
| brainwash | you are fixing so much stuff, you are really awesome :D | 11:58 |
| bluesabre | +1 | 12:29 |
| ochosi | +1 | 12:56 |
| ochosi | i'll start prepping our icon-theme with symbolic icons now for the gtk3 indicators... | 12:56 |
| ochosi | then at some point, we would be able to drop the -dark icon-theme-variant | 12:57 |
| ali1234 | why? | 12:57 |
| ali1234 | isn't that the default one? | 12:57 |
| ochosi | yeah, but it only makes stuff in the panel use bright icons | 12:58 |
| ochosi | so that if the panel bg is dark, you can still see them | 12:58 |
| ochosi | with symbolic icons, that's not necessary anymore | 12:58 |
| ali1234 | isn't that what you want, if you have dark panels? | 12:58 |
| ochosi | depending on the theme-bg, the indicators will adjust | 12:58 |
| ochosi | (it uses the fg color of the panel/indicator widget to color the icon) | 12:59 |
| ali1234 | i see, sounds good | 13:00 |
| ochosi | yeah, that's one of the *real* benefit of gtk3 | 13:00 |
| ochosi | benefits | 13:00 |
| ochosi | cause that principle works everywhere, also in menus | 13:01 |
| ochosi | so e.g. if you have dark hover-color with dark icons in menus, that's not a problem anymore, the selected item/icon will just use fgcolor as if it were a font | 13:01 |
| bluesabre | ochosi: but we still have gtk2 system tray icons | 13:02 |
| ochosi | bluesabre: yes, i know, for that we will have to keep -dark around | 13:02 |
| bluesabre | :) | 13:03 |
| ochosi | but not necessarily set it by default anymore | 13:03 |
| ochosi | and luckily the indicators use different icon-names from e.g. xfce4-powermanager | 13:03 |
| ochosi | so powerman icons can be kept while indicator icons will be dropped and use -symbolic instead | 13:03 |
| ali1234 | can't we just use indicator-power? | 13:03 |
| bluesabre | yes and no, I believe the xfce4-power-manager requires its system tray icon | 13:04 |
| bluesabre | we can hide the system tray, but xfce apps depend on it | 13:04 |
| ochosi | we can | 13:04 |
| ochosi | i have a patch for indicator-power that helps with xfce-powerman | 13:05 |
| ochosi | (i.e. going to power-settings opens xfce4-powermans settings) | 13:05 |
| ali1234 | can you do anything about the spacing of systray icons? so they're not all squashed together, but equally spaced like indicators? | 13:05 |
| bluesabre | right, but you'll have two battery icons in your systray | 13:05 |
| ochosi | bluesabre: no, you can set the systray icon to "always hide" in powerman | 13:05 |
| bluesabre | ah | 13:05 |
| bluesabre | that works! :) | 13:05 |
| ochosi | ali1234: i can try to improve that, yeah | 13:05 |
| ochosi | ali1234: difference is: indicators are buttons, so they have more padding around them naturally | 13:06 |
| ali1234 | http://imagebin.org/280886 <- also this | 13:07 |
| ali1234 | this only seems to happen if xfce4-power-manager is the only icon in the systray | 13:07 |
| ali1234 | seems to happen with any theme | 13:08 |
| ochosi | have you tried to use elementary-xfce there? | 13:09 |
| ochosi | cause for some odd reason, having a horizontally laying battery never worked for that trayicon (i know it sounds weird...) | 13:10 |
| ali1234 | ah yeah that does fix it | 13:11 |
| ali1234 | yeah this only happens with ubuntu-mono icons | 13:11 |
| ochosi | yeah, hmpf, not much i can do about that... | 13:11 |
| ali1234 | plugin bug? | 13:11 |
| ochosi | you can take the battery-icons from elementary-xfce and copy them over to ubuntu-mono | 13:11 |
| ochosi | yeah i think it's a powerman trayicon bug | 13:12 |
| ali1234 | it renders correctly if there's any other icons in the systray... | 13:12 |
| ali1234 | probably something to do with the icon size | 13:12 |
| ochosi | ah hm | 13:12 |
| ochosi | probably | 13:12 |
| ali1234 | i'll put it on the list | 13:12 |
| ochosi | gotta go, have a nice day everyone | 13:24 |
| === elfy_ is now known as elfy | ||
| knome | bluesabre, i guess you are fine in continuing in ~xubuntu-release until the release of 14.04? | 16:41 |
| slickymaster | I'm off | 17:10 |
| slickymaster | bbl | 17:10 |
| knome | slickymaster, ping | 19:28 |
| knome | slickymaster, rather here :) | 19:28 |
| slickymaster | there's something I've noticed. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromLinux hasn't been edited/updated since 201 | 19:28 |
| slickymaster | 2010 ^^ | 19:28 |
| knome | yep... | 19:28 |
| slickymaster | and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromMacOSX also | 19:29 |
| knome | i guess that's a general problem for the wiki | 19:29 |
| slickymaster | yes, that's very true | 19:29 |
| knome | somehow, for me, the way the signpost is categorised, doesn't work | 19:29 |
| slickymaster | there's a lack of tags in dozens of pages | 19:30 |
| knome | i has the slight problem of guessing what people want | 19:30 |
| slickymaster | namely the Needs Updating tag | 19:30 |
| knome | by what argument do all power users wnat to become programmers? | 19:30 |
| slickymaster | I've faced that exact same problem with https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NewDocs | 19:31 |
| slickymaster | that was one of the reasons I've created a sort of a sand-box area for it | 19:31 |
| skellat | knome: I think that is a social issue in need of escalation so that we can best deal with Customer Execution | 19:31 |
| skellat | s/Customer Execution/Customer Service Execution/ | 19:33 |
| knome | slickymaster, another thing that pops out is some of the warnings, ie in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sound | 19:33 |
| knome | slickymaster, shouldn't the warning be in the wikimarkup as a comment rather than something that's facing all users, even those who only want to read the wiki and do not even think about contributing | 19:34 |
| slickymaster | knome, yeaps, agree | 19:34 |
| slickymaster | even though I must confess that I've never came across that type of tag | 19:35 |
| knome | that's one some of the pages linked from the frontpage | 19:35 |
| knome | like Sound, Printers, InputDevices | 19:35 |
| slickymaster | hm hm | 19:35 |
| slickymaster | another link I have serious doubts about is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Signpost/Answers#signpost | 19:36 |
| knome | well the signpost as a complete entity is a bit weird | 19:36 |
| knome | ultimately, just https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Signpost/Destinations could be modified to be a "list ofresources" | 19:37 |
| slickymaster | basically it leads to an almost dead end for someone not used to the wiki concept | 19:37 |
| knome | (and even that list isn't exhaustive) | 19:37 |
| knome | and that page is highly repetitive | 19:37 |
| knome | there should only be one howto; "how to connect to irc" | 19:38 |
| knome | then just telling the people to fill in the right channel | 19:38 |
| knome | or, the better, easier way, | 19:38 |
| knome | just link to the freenode webchat with channel details filled automatically | 19:38 |
| slickymaster | yes, | 19:39 |
| knome | in the same way we are linking people to #xubuntu on our installer | 19:39 |
| slickymaster | one thing though I think you should consider is to add a link to http://ubuntu-manual.org/ | 19:39 |
| slickymaster | for many people it's their gateway to *buntu | 19:39 |
| slickymaster | afk (back in a sec) | 19:40 |
| knome | well basically we should link all external/additional resources somewhere | 19:41 |
| knome | not only the ubuntu manual, but also say, the xubuntu documentation | 19:41 |
| slickymaster | once I agrre | 19:42 |
| slickymaster | agree | 19:42 |
| knome | where should that list be? | 19:42 |
| knome | well, meh | 19:42 |
| knome | that's a hard question | 19:42 |
| knome | if the ideal answer seems to be "at the top of the front page", that tells me the help wiki is crap | 19:42 |
| * slickymaster nods | 19:43 | |
| knome | if it's at the bottom, the question is if we should list them all on the frontpage, or create another page for the resources (probably the better option) | 19:43 |
| slickymaster | and one thing must be considered IMO, which is the fact that the front page shouldn't be a continuous scroll of items | 19:44 |
| slickymaster | that would contradict its concept, the way I see it | 19:45 |
| slickymaster | I would go with your second option, creating another page just for resources | 19:45 |
| slickymaster | are you not considering adding any references to touch devices? | 19:47 |
| knome | the help topics -section shoud be edited and extended as needed | 19:47 |
| knome | i've just copied over all the things that were in the current front page | 19:48 |
| slickymaster | you mean extended on the front page itself? in the existent table? | 19:49 |
| knome | yep | 19:49 |
| knome | say there was a completely new category of hardware | 19:49 |
| knome | the blingbling devices | 19:49 |
| knome | one should simply add that to the listing as appropriate | 19:49 |
| slickymaster | but aren't you afraid that might cause an incredible growth on the page size? | 19:50 |
| knome | ultimately, all the content should be "alive" and editable by people who know the wiki content | 19:50 |
| knome | if it grows, maybe the main categories should be rethought | 19:50 |
| slickymaster | my fear is that the page easily can became a huge sheet where people will have to go through a non-stop scroll to get to the Find your way... for instance | 19:52 |
| knome | heh. | 19:52 |
| knome | sure. | 19:52 |
| knome | i guess we need to rethink that once i get the rest of the page reformatted | 19:52 |
| knome | we can look at a better way to format the topic list as well | 19:52 |
| slickymaster | yes, it's a tricky thing to balance design conception and pragmatic contents | 19:53 |
| knome | not sure if all the descriptions are needed in the frontpage as they are now | 19:54 |
| knome | but ultimately, (again) i want to leave those considerations to the people who know the (scale of the) content in the wiki | 19:54 |
| slickymaster | you mean the second column in the tables? | 19:54 |
| knome | yes | 19:54 |
| slickymaster | well but any sort of description ought to be present | 19:55 |
| knome | well | 19:55 |
| knome | consider this | 19:55 |
| knome | Printers | 19:55 |
| knome | Setting up and using your printer | 19:55 |
| knome | isn't that obvious? | 19:55 |
| slickymaster | no argues with that one :) | 19:56 |
| knome | we could split the list in three paragraphs | 19:56 |
| slickymaster | but building software, on the other hand, might not be so accessible | 19:56 |
| knome | sure | 19:56 |
| belkinsa | Hey all, I heard you have a wiki issue. | 19:57 |
| slickymaster | some of therm can be shortened | 19:57 |
| slickymaster | hi belkinsa | 19:57 |
| knome | hullo | 19:57 |
| slickymaster | you should talk with knome | 19:57 |
| belkinsa | Okay, skellat is passing me on the scrollback. | 19:57 |
| knome | o/ | 19:57 |
| knome | i don't have an "issue" as it is, | 19:58 |
| slickymaster | afk | 19:58 |
| knome | i'm working on refreshing the help wiki front page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FrontPageRefresh | 19:58 |
| pleia2 | and knome is scared of #ubuntu-doc | 19:58 |
| pleia2 | :P | 19:58 |
| knome | no, not really | 19:58 |
| pleia2 | really should be having discussions there | 19:58 |
| knome | i just want to limit the channel amount | 19:58 |
| knome | but ma, wasn't me who started the discussion! | 19:59 |
| belkinsa | Yeah, if it's a doc issue. | 19:59 |
| knome | and -doc was quite quiet the last time i told i was working on that | 19:59 |
| knome | for days | 19:59 |
| knome | then i parted. | 19:59 |
| skellat | knome: belkinsa has been looking at tagging issues herself in the wiki | 20:02 |
| skellat | You two should discuss together perhaps | 20:02 |
| knome | my focus of interest isn't the tagging or the content itself as much as the way the information is laid out | 20:03 |
| skellat | knome: Which is still part of her domain of concern | 20:03 |
| knome | sure... | 20:03 |
| * skellat wanders off to get some tea | 20:07 | |
| knome | jjfrv8, hey, ping me when you're around | 23:23 |
| bluesabre | knome: sure thing, hopefully I'll be helpful with it :) | 23:33 |
| knome | oki, then i'll extend your membership | 23:35 |
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