[00:18] ali1234, did you get your hands on the linux identity magazine already? [00:20] ali1234: i never received a copy of that (weren't they sent out at some point?) [00:21] ochosi, seriously? crap. [00:21] yeah [00:21] ochosi, do you want a paper copy? [00:21] i forgot about it again [00:21] well, if you have a digital copy, that's fine as well [00:21] you should contact sonny... [00:22] don't wanna waste paper or money for the post [00:22] hmm. [00:22] i might [00:22] and it's ok, i know what i wrote ;) [00:22] i have some non-final PDF exports [00:22] i could see if i find the final version [00:23] or ask sonny for one [00:23] nah, i don't have [00:23] maybe pleia2 has [00:24] alrighty, i'm off, night everyone! [00:24] nighty [01:11] slickymaster: looks good to me === GridCube_ is now known as GridCube [08:28] https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-network/+bug/1185565 [08:28] Ubuntu bug 1185565 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Indicators should have Upstart jobs" [Medium,In progress] [08:36] brainwash: what happens if you run this in a terminal: "init --user --startup-event indicator-services-start & xfce4-panel -r" [09:20] brainwash: scratch that. try this: "initctl emit indicator-services-start && xfce4-panel -r" [09:24] ali1234: i presume this test is mostly valuable in trusty? [09:24] ochosi_: only in trusty :) [09:25] ochosi_: see #ubuntu-desktop === ochosi_ is now known as ochsoi === ochsoi is now known as ochosi [09:27] ali1234: very cool of you to check that out now [09:28] well i don't want us to get stuck on -gtk2 yet again because the -gtk3 indicators changed and nobody noticed [09:28] we might have to distropatch this in though [09:28] but hey, it's two lines [09:30] why distropatch? is anyone outside ubuntu using indicators? [09:30] yes, arch [09:30] actually it might be interesting at some point to support gnome3 indicators [09:30] has the full unity stack [09:31] if that's at all possible [09:31] ah, cool [09:31] well, i'm not touching anything gnome3 :P [09:31] ;) [09:32] they will probably be written in javascript and html and require linking the panel against webkit === yofel_ is now known as yofel [09:37] ochosi: IIRC, Ubuntu hasn't even had a real release with gtk3 indicators... [09:37] ali1234: Arch has everything, well almost, not sure if they got mir working. [09:38] what do you mean? [09:39] ubuntu has used exclusively gtk3 indicators since at least 12.04 [09:51] ali1234: quick question, for panel-switch's UI, would you want a mockup or something in glade? [09:51] either [09:51] i don't really know how to use glade [09:52] ok [09:52] well i can do something simplistic in inkscape then [09:52] i presume you'll do a gtk3 UI? [09:53] meh. [09:54] you going to use gtk3 only stuff in the design? [09:55] nah [09:55] only standard widgets that exist in both worlds [09:55] so theoretically you should be able to make it build with gtk2 and 3 [09:55] well it's python... there is no "build" [09:57] ok [10:02] morning all [10:08] morning slickymaster [10:08] slickymaster, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FrontPageRefresh [10:08] ;) [10:09] hi knome, good morning [10:09] I'll take a more thorough look at home, tonight [10:09] but it looks much better [10:09] sure [10:10] not much has changed since the last time [10:10] well, it has now a more aesthetically appealing [10:10] heh, yep [10:11] do you have some time do discuss the content-related stuff now, or should we postpone that for the evening as well? [10:11] by the way, if you feel like wasting a few minutes of your time, https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/mugshot/+merge/197873 is ready for review and possible merge [10:11] ah, i could do that possibly later [10:12] I would prefer to do it after dinner, 21:00 UTC [10:12] is that good for you [10:12] ok, that works [10:13] bluesabre already gave its ok to the test http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/12/06/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t01:11 [10:14] ah, cool [10:14] then i should get to that a bit faster [10:16] I'm try to see if I can manage to finish http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs by today [10:17] trying ^^ [10:17] slickymaster: sweet! [10:17] but it's not going to be easy [10:17] morning ochosi :) [10:18] i believe the mugshot test is a completely new one? [10:18] I've already made same changes to http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:command-line [10:18] ochosi, want to answer the user on #x? [10:18] yes its knome [10:18] ;)= [10:18] it is ^^ [10:18] * slickymaster fingers are completely frozen [10:19] heh, cold in there? [10:19] not like in Finland, but pretty damn cold for a mediterranean autumn [10:20] right now 3º C [10:20] and the heating is broken at work [10:22] awh [10:22] i don't think it's *too* cold outside here either [10:22] says +1 :) [10:23] :) [10:28] ali1234: this is a very minimal starting point: http://imagebin.org/280849 [10:28] ali1234: the save button is supposed to save the current layout under a new name (so it's actually a save-as button) [10:29] knome: in case you also wanna take a look at the mockup ^ [10:33] k [10:38] yeah that's pretty much what i was imagining [10:39] slickymaster, test for mugshot is merged and in the tracker [10:50] thanks knome, time to start https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1256898 [10:50] Ubuntu bug 1256898 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : xfce4 session handling" [Undecided,In progress] [10:51] ali1234: for loading new layouts into the thing, i thought just DND it into the window [10:51] at first i was also thinking about a reset button or something, but it's somehow too confusing [10:51] (reset to what?) [10:52] i guess something like a popup-dialog on the apply button saying "your current layout will be lost, really apply?" would be better [11:01] ali1234: http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=8481 [11:01] brainwash: yeah, fixed [11:01] ali1234: should I test and emit the signal for the indicator or does it not work [11:01] when thepatches get pulled [11:02] brainwash: give it a try. it might act a bit funny though [11:02] like the initctl command might hang [11:02] if so just reload the panel on another terminal [11:02] ok [11:04] ali1234: want me to attach the mockup to the xubuntu-wiki page for panel-switch? [11:05] sure [11:06] brainwash: where did you see those errors about "No watchers" [11:11] ali1234: xsession log [11:11] so the command did get stuck, but it worked somewhat [11:12] however, the nm-applet still showed up as gtkstatusicon [11:13] yes, that is a different bug [11:14] seems related [11:14] Unit193: not really sure what you mean [11:14] hey brainwash [11:15] if my sync indicator is able to load properly, then nm-applet did also [11:15] elfy: hi :) [11:15] brainwash: see #ubuntu-desktop [11:16] so back to dbus activation? [11:17] not unless we patch it back in [11:19] good you got a hold of tedg though [11:20] any logs for yesterday's meeting ochosi ? [11:21] here you go elfy http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-12-05-19.00.html [11:21] good morning ;) [11:21] ty slickymaster [11:27] ah, too late... [11:28] never too late ochosi - you would have :) [11:38] brainwash: try putting INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes in /etc/environment and restart [11:39] that var name :D [11:39] let me test [11:40] seems to work good for me [11:49] ali1234: works [11:55] brainwash: completely? [11:55] seems so [11:55] cool [11:56] that's an easy fix then, and tedg agreed it is a bug and should get fixed [11:56] infact i'm gonna do a branch [11:56] yet another branch :) [11:56] i just posted the gtk2 fix ppa on the bug report and ML thread [11:57] brainwash: well this is a bug in libindicator3 [11:58] you are fixing so much stuff, you are really awesome :D [12:29] +1 [12:56] +1 [12:56] i'll start prepping our icon-theme with symbolic icons now for the gtk3 indicators... [12:57] then at some point, we would be able to drop the -dark icon-theme-variant [12:57] why? [12:57] isn't that the default one? [12:58] yeah, but it only makes stuff in the panel use bright icons [12:58] so that if the panel bg is dark, you can still see them [12:58] with symbolic icons, that's not necessary anymore [12:58] isn't that what you want, if you have dark panels? [12:58] depending on the theme-bg, the indicators will adjust [12:59] (it uses the fg color of the panel/indicator widget to color the icon) [13:00] i see, sounds good [13:00] yeah, that's one of the *real* benefit of gtk3 [13:00] benefits [13:01] cause that principle works everywhere, also in menus [13:01] so e.g. if you have dark hover-color with dark icons in menus, that's not a problem anymore, the selected item/icon will just use fgcolor as if it were a font [13:02] ochosi: but we still have gtk2 system tray icons [13:02] bluesabre: yes, i know, for that we will have to keep -dark around [13:03] :) [13:03] but not necessarily set it by default anymore [13:03] and luckily the indicators use different icon-names from e.g. xfce4-powermanager [13:03] so powerman icons can be kept while indicator icons will be dropped and use -symbolic instead [13:03] can't we just use indicator-power? [13:04] yes and no, I believe the xfce4-power-manager requires its system tray icon [13:04] we can hide the system tray, but xfce apps depend on it [13:04] we can [13:05] i have a patch for indicator-power that helps with xfce-powerman [13:05] (i.e. going to power-settings opens xfce4-powermans settings) [13:05] can you do anything about the spacing of systray icons? so they're not all squashed together, but equally spaced like indicators? [13:05] right, but you'll have two battery icons in your systray [13:05] bluesabre: no, you can set the systray icon to "always hide" in powerman [13:05] ah [13:05] that works! :) [13:05] ali1234: i can try to improve that, yeah [13:06] ali1234: difference is: indicators are buttons, so they have more padding around them naturally [13:07] http://imagebin.org/280886 <- also this [13:07] this only seems to happen if xfce4-power-manager is the only icon in the systray [13:08] seems to happen with any theme [13:09] have you tried to use elementary-xfce there? [13:10] cause for some odd reason, having a horizontally laying battery never worked for that trayicon (i know it sounds weird...) [13:11] ah yeah that does fix it [13:11] yeah this only happens with ubuntu-mono icons [13:11] yeah, hmpf, not much i can do about that... [13:11] plugin bug? [13:11] you can take the battery-icons from elementary-xfce and copy them over to ubuntu-mono [13:12] yeah i think it's a powerman trayicon bug [13:12] it renders correctly if there's any other icons in the systray... [13:12] probably something to do with the icon size [13:12] ah hm [13:12] probably [13:12] i'll put it on the list [13:24] gotta go, have a nice day everyone === elfy_ is now known as elfy [16:41] bluesabre, i guess you are fine in continuing in ~xubuntu-release until the release of 14.04? [17:10] I'm off [17:10] bbl [19:28] slickymaster, ping [19:28] slickymaster, rather here :) [19:28] there's something I've noticed. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromLinux hasn't been edited/updated since 201 [19:28] 2010 ^^ [19:28] yep... [19:29] and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromMacOSX also [19:29] i guess that's a general problem for the wiki [19:29] yes, that's very true [19:29] somehow, for me, the way the signpost is categorised, doesn't work [19:30] there's a lack of tags in dozens of pages [19:30] i has the slight problem of guessing what people want [19:30] namely the Needs Updating tag [19:30] by what argument do all power users wnat to become programmers? [19:31] I've faced that exact same problem with https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NewDocs [19:31] that was one of the reasons I've created a sort of a sand-box area for it [19:31] knome: I think that is a social issue in need of escalation so that we can best deal with Customer Execution [19:33] s/Customer Execution/Customer Service Execution/ [19:33] slickymaster, another thing that pops out is some of the warnings, ie in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sound [19:34] slickymaster, shouldn't the warning be in the wikimarkup as a comment rather than something that's facing all users, even those who only want to read the wiki and do not even think about contributing [19:34] knome, yeaps, agree [19:35] even though I must confess that I've never came across that type of tag [19:35] that's one some of the pages linked from the frontpage [19:35] like Sound, Printers, InputDevices [19:35] hm hm [19:36] another link I have serious doubts about is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Signpost/Answers#signpost [19:36] well the signpost as a complete entity is a bit weird [19:37] ultimately, just https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Signpost/Destinations could be modified to be a "list ofresources" [19:37] basically it leads to an almost dead end for someone not used to the wiki concept [19:37] (and even that list isn't exhaustive) [19:37] and that page is highly repetitive [19:38] there should only be one howto; "how to connect to irc" [19:38] then just telling the people to fill in the right channel [19:38] or, the better, easier way, [19:38] just link to the freenode webchat with channel details filled automatically [19:39] yes, [19:39] in the same way we are linking people to #xubuntu on our installer [19:39] one thing though I think you should consider is to add a link to http://ubuntu-manual.org/ [19:39] for many people it's their gateway to *buntu [19:40] afk (back in a sec) [19:41] well basically we should link all external/additional resources somewhere [19:41] not only the ubuntu manual, but also say, the xubuntu documentation [19:42] once I agrre [19:42] agree [19:42] where should that list be? [19:42] well, meh [19:42] that's a hard question [19:42] if the ideal answer seems to be "at the top of the front page", that tells me the help wiki is crap [19:43] * slickymaster nods [19:43] if it's at the bottom, the question is if we should list them all on the frontpage, or create another page for the resources (probably the better option) [19:44] and one thing must be considered IMO, which is the fact that the front page shouldn't be a continuous scroll of items [19:45] that would contradict its concept, the way I see it [19:45] I would go with your second option, creating another page just for resources [19:47] are you not considering adding any references to touch devices? [19:47] the help topics -section shoud be edited and extended as needed [19:48] i've just copied over all the things that were in the current front page [19:49] you mean extended on the front page itself? in the existent table? [19:49] yep [19:49] say there was a completely new category of hardware [19:49] the blingbling devices [19:49] one should simply add that to the listing as appropriate [19:50] but aren't you afraid that might cause an incredible growth on the page size? [19:50] ultimately, all the content should be "alive" and editable by people who know the wiki content [19:50] if it grows, maybe the main categories should be rethought [19:52] my fear is that the page easily can became a huge sheet where people will have to go through a non-stop scroll to get to the Find your way... for instance [19:52] heh. [19:52] sure. [19:52] i guess we need to rethink that once i get the rest of the page reformatted [19:52] we can look at a better way to format the topic list as well [19:53] yes, it's a tricky thing to balance design conception and pragmatic contents [19:54] not sure if all the descriptions are needed in the frontpage as they are now [19:54] but ultimately, (again) i want to leave those considerations to the people who know the (scale of the) content in the wiki [19:54] you mean the second column in the tables? [19:54] yes [19:55] well but any sort of description ought to be present [19:55] well [19:55] consider this [19:55] Printers [19:55] Setting up and using your printer [19:55] isn't that obvious? [19:56] no argues with that one :) [19:56] we could split the list in three paragraphs [19:56] but building software, on the other hand, might not be so accessible [19:56] sure [19:57] Hey all, I heard you have a wiki issue. [19:57] some of therm can be shortened [19:57] hi belkinsa [19:57] hullo [19:57] you should talk with knome [19:57] Okay, skellat is passing me on the scrollback. [19:57] o/ [19:58] i don't have an "issue" as it is, [19:58] afk [19:58] i'm working on refreshing the help wiki front page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FrontPageRefresh [19:58] and knome is scared of #ubuntu-doc [19:58] :P [19:58] no, not really [19:58] really should be having discussions there [19:58] i just want to limit the channel amount [19:59] but ma, wasn't me who started the discussion! [19:59] Yeah, if it's a doc issue. [19:59] and -doc was quite quiet the last time i told i was working on that [19:59] for days [19:59] then i parted. [20:02] knome: belkinsa has been looking at tagging issues herself in the wiki [20:02] You two should discuss together perhaps [20:03] my focus of interest isn't the tagging or the content itself as much as the way the information is laid out [20:03] knome: Which is still part of her domain of concern [20:03] sure... [20:07] * skellat wanders off to get some tea [23:23] jjfrv8, hey, ping me when you're around [23:33] knome: sure thing, hopefully I'll be helpful with it :) [23:35] oki, then i'll extend your membership