[00:00] <andrzejr> ask ofourdan?
[00:11] <ochosi> yeah, a direct email might help
[00:11] <andrzejr> ali1234, reported that cairo issue in https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72551
[00:13] <ali1234> hmm i htink i figured it out
[00:18] <ochosi> you did?
[00:20] <ali1234> maybe
[00:20] <ali1234> i need to write a test program or something
[00:20] <ochosi> is notifyd not good enough?
[00:30] <ali1234> well it's outside my control
[00:30] <ali1234> weirdly, this does not happen with my test program...
[00:30] <ali1234> does xfce-notifyd use gtk2 or gtk3?
[00:31] <ali1234> maybe it never was a bug in gtk2
[00:33] <ochosi> gtk2
[00:33] <ali1234> hmmmm
[00:33] <ali1234> that gtk patch got reverted anyway
[00:35] <ali1234> hmm, that patch is bonkers, actually
[00:35] <ali1234> so... xfwm4 must be doing something... silly
[00:35] <ali1234> er, i mean the notifyd
[00:36] <ochosi> so rather than being a corner-case with xfwm4, it's a bug in notifyd?
[00:38] <ali1234> both probably
[00:39] <ali1234> this is super confusing
[00:41] <ali1234> every window has TAKE_FOCUS
[00:41] <ali1234> but for most windows this doesn't cause a problem
[00:41] <ali1234> maybe because the client doesn't quit... hmm
[00:42] <ochosi> so if i understand you correctly, the focus goes back to the next instead of back to the "previous" window after notifyd exits
[00:43] <ali1234> er... kind of, but no
[00:44] <ali1234> notifyd opens a window, focus doesn't change
[00:44] <ali1234> notifyd closes window, focus jumps to "top most" window
[00:44] <ali1234> when really it should stay the same
[00:44] <ali1234> but i can't reproduce this with a test program, so it's not caused by that gtk bug
[00:44] <ali1234> if i just open a window with no focus it doesn't happen
[00:45] <ali1234> so it must be something else
[00:46] <ochosi> sounds like it's notifyd specific then
[00:47] <ochosi> g2g, night everyone
[00:47] <ali1234> ah ha
[00:47] <ali1234> it's one of the other hints that does it...
[00:47] <ali1234> night :)
[00:48] <ali1234> keep_above
[00:49] <ali1234> yeah, it happens if the window is no_focus and keep_above
[00:49] <ali1234> ok, so i guess i was totally looking in the wrong place all this time
[01:11] <ali1234> argh... this is a tricky one
[01:12] <ali1234> right, i see the problem
[01:13] <ali1234> if a window with above and no accept focus opens on a different layer to the current focus, it triggers a spurious focus change event
[02:30] <ali1234> anyone know where i can find the old svn for xfwm4?
[02:33] <ali1234> oh, nvm, it's all on the git
[02:45] <ali1234> hmm... actually i need the old cvs :(
[05:09] <ali1234> ok, so #gtk+ clued me in on how to fix the focus stealing in a better way
[05:09] <ali1234> fixed it in xfce4-notifyd
[05:09] <ali1234> the focus code in xfwm4 has so many workarounds and dodgy hacks i don't even know where to start
[05:10] <ali1234> anyway, by using override-redirect on the notify windows, this stops the window manager from seeing them at all. and so they don't interfere with anything
[08:08] <elfy> skellat: when you're about later today can you ping me please
[09:02] <ochosi> ali1234: that sounds quite reasonable, can't think of a reason the notifications should steal the window focus at all
[09:30] <ochosi> jjfrv8: hey there! was pretty much afk over the weekend so i'm just looking at the prefs in the xfdesktop-docs now
[09:33] <ochosi> jjfrv8: as you don't seem to be here now, i'll write up my thoughts/notes on a separate wiki page
[09:50] <ochosi> jjfrv8: for my comments, see http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:preferences:comments
[09:51] <ochosi> jjfrv8: great work on the prefs, there are just some issues we need to iron out, we can also discuss the transparent-option together when we're both around
[10:01] <lderan> good morning all :D
[10:05] <bluesabre> ali1234: that would fix one of my biggest gripes :)
[10:06] <ochosi> bluesabre: you mean the tearing with xfwm4 compositor?
[10:06] <bluesabre> notifications making me lose focus in my current window for a brief moment
[10:07] <ochosi> ah
[10:08] <slickymaster> morning all
[10:10] <ochosi> morning
[10:10] <bluesabre> hey slickymaster
[10:10] <slickymaster> ochosi, bluesabre hi
[10:11] <slickymaster> I haven't forgot xfdesktop documentation :)
[10:11] <ochosi> no worries ;)
[10:12] <ochosi> i just went through jjfrv8's preferences part
[10:12] <slickymaster> ochosi, we'll have to blame knome on my delay
[10:12] <slickymaster> ;)
[10:12] <knome> woot
[10:12]  * ochosi blames knome 
[10:12] <knome> huh
[10:12] <slickymaster> morning knome 
[10:12] <knome> thanks!
[10:12] <knome> good day slickymaster 
[10:13] <ochosi> bluesabre: i'm sometimes wondering whether we should set up a bug-bounty programme somehow
[10:13]  * slickymaster is safely hidding
[10:13] <knome> what did i do this time?
[10:14] <bluesabre> ochosi: tempting, but what would be the bounty, hopefully not money
[10:14] <knome> bluesabre, well we have some project moolah
[10:14] <knome> bluesabre, and we can send stickers
[10:14] <knome> bluesabre, and finnish candy :d
[10:14] <ochosi> bluesabre: not sure, i think money could work. we could also do other stuff though
[10:14] <knome> except if my wife eats them first
[10:14] <ochosi> elementary did some bug-bounty for a geary backport to their luna release
[10:14] <ochosi> and it was monetary, iirc
[10:14] <knome> so it should/would be a bounty with a deadline :P
[10:15] <bluesabre> so many pings! :D
[10:16] <knome> i read "pigs"
[10:16] <ochosi> :)
[10:17] <bluesabre> :(
[11:18] <ochosi> oha, gtk3.10 is about to hit the trusty archives
[11:45] <bluesabre> wha
[11:45] <bluesabre> I thought trusty was sticking with 3.8?
[11:46] <bluesabre> so, from a design standpoint, do we want to force disable button images in gtk2 to make those apps match a bit more with gtk3.10?
[11:46] <bluesabre> and menu images
[12:25] <ochosi> bluesabre: good question
[12:25] <ochosi> i'm +1 on button images
[12:26] <ochosi> i've been using that myself for quite some time now
[12:48] <ochosi> Unit193: so wait, your session changes seem quite important for 14.04, can a live-session even be started without them?
[13:41] <jjfrv8> ochosi, good afternoon. Saw your comments on Preferences. Snow day here so I'll be around if you want to set a time to discuss.
[14:17] <ochosi> jjfrv8: hey there
[14:17] <jjfrv8> howdy
[14:18] <jjfrv8> ochosi, do you want to discuss preferences now?
[14:19] <ochosi> yeah, i can take a few minutes now
[14:20] <jjfrv8> I think I can do your points 1-4 with no problem but need to ask you about 5 & 6
[14:20] <ochosi> yeah, especially with 6 i expected that
[14:21] <ochosi> what version of xfdesktop are you using at the moment again?
[14:21] <ochosi> 4.11 from the xfce4.12 PPA?
[14:21] <jjfrv8> yeah, just checked again. xfdesktop4 4.11.1
[14:22] <ochosi> hm, ok, let me see what i have here then
[14:22] <jjfrv8> but I've got both the 4.12 and the 4.10 PPAs installed per the recommendation on the archive
[14:22] <ochosi> yeah
[14:22] <ochosi> that's fine
[14:23] <ochosi> so for me there's a header stating the workspace-name in the windowlist
[14:24] <ochosi> i can quickly take a screenshot
[14:24] <jjfrv8> k, I think that would help
[14:24] <ochosi> http://imagebin.org/281647
[14:24] <ochosi> where 1,2 and 3 are workspace names
[14:25] <ochosi> that seems to be missing in your screenshot
[14:25] <skellat> elfy: ¡PING!
[14:26] <jjfrv8> well, actually, it is there in the last screenshot
[14:26] <ochosi> oh
[14:26] <ochosi> let me look again
[14:26] <jjfrv8> I probably should not have combined two settings in one screenshot
[14:26] <jjfrv8> and I renamed the workspaces to 'primary' and 'secondary'. probably shouldn't have done that either
[14:27] <ochosi> ah
[14:27] <ochosi> yeah, now i understand
[14:27] <ochosi> so that's pretty much fine then i guess
[14:27] <jjfrv8> so I can use the default names and split out all four settings separately
[14:29] <ochosi> you could put the small screenshots next to each other if you wanna save vertical space
[14:29] <ochosi> but yeah, it's not terribly important
[14:29] <jjfrv8> ok, that's an idea
[14:29] <ochosi> the users can figure these easy settings out themselves too
[14:29] <ochosi> and you've described them well enough i think
[14:29] <jjfrv8> the only reason I did the screenshots was the that 4.10 explanations weren't clear to me
[14:30] <jjfrv8> but I might just be dense :)
[14:30] <ochosi> hehe
[14:30] <ochosi> well depends on whether you have ever touched/tried these settings i think
[14:30] <jjfrv8> that's true
[14:30] <ochosi> without that it always seems more odd i guess
[14:30] <ochosi> ok, so point 5
[14:30] <jjfrv8> yeah
[14:31] <ochosi> knome did such a wallpaper for xubuntu as a tryout a longer while ago
[14:31] <ochosi> basically you can use a semi-transparent image, and the color/gradient you set on the desktop will "show through"
[14:32] <jjfrv8> so the "transparent" setting applies to the image, not the color, right?
[14:32] <ochosi> no, those are two separate things
[14:33] <ochosi> i haven't mentioned the transparent option yet in my comments, because i'm not sure myself how that works these days
[14:33] <ochosi> iirc, it was meant for e.g. the compiz-cube to have a transparent wallpaper
[14:33] <ochosi> not sure what it currently does
[14:33] <ochosi> (probably just show the root pixmap)
[14:33] <ochosi> i have to ask eric_the_idiot about that
[14:34] <jjfrv8> i couldn't see where it did anything. and there are apparently no opacity controls or anything
[14:35] <ochosi> yeah, could be that it's even deprecated, i'm not sure and a bit too lazy to dig through the code right now ;)
[14:35] <ochosi> i'd rather wait for eric to reply
[14:35] <jjfrv8> sounds good
[14:35] <ochosi> so let's keep that on our list of open issues
[14:35] <jjfrv8> sure
[14:36] <ochosi> what i haven't checked yet, how does this version compare to what's currently in the xfce-docs?
[14:36] <ochosi> i mean for 4.10
[14:36] <ochosi> cause it seems to me that we need to keep the 4.10 references there
[14:37] <ochosi> and e.g. the first screenshot/folder stuff is a rather big departure from the old desktop
[14:37] <jjfrv8> yeah, the only real diffs are in the first tab, but they are significant
[14:37] <ochosi> nick said he would like to keep the docs for 4.10 there as well
[14:38] <ochosi> and only not the diffs to 4.12
[14:38] <ochosi> so we have to find a way to illustrate that
[14:38] <jjfrv8> hmm
[14:38] <ochosi> possibly by first showing the 4.10 screenshot + explanation, then the 4.12 screenshot+explanation
[14:38] <ochosi> with a <note>This only applies to Xfce4.12</note> or something
[14:39] <ochosi> in between
[14:39] <jjfrv8> ok, that makes it a little tricky but I'll see what I can do
[14:39] <ochosi> i know, it doesn't have to be beautiful, it should mostly be functional i guess
[14:40] <ochosi> as soon as we have a proposal for that, i'll send an email to nick and eric and ask them for feedback on that
[14:40] <jjfrv8> ok
[14:40] <ochosi> i'll cc you and slickymaster and then we'll see what route they wanna go
[14:40] <ochosi> so let's finalize the prefs-page first and then see
[14:41] <ochosi> i'll quickly try to tackle the bugs page today
[14:42] <jjfrv8> by 'finalize' you mean a combo 4.10/4.12 version or just making the changes in your comments today
[14:42] <jjfrv8> ?
[14:43] <ochosi> ideally both
[14:43] <ochosi> but i'm mostly waiting for how the 4.10/4.12 stuff will look
[14:43] <ochosi> if it looks awful, we need to discuss that with the others
[14:43] <ochosi> maybe we have to take a different route then
[14:44] <ochosi> but it'll be mostly copy-paste i assume (either to a separate page or whatnot)
[14:45] <jjfrv8> ok, I'll see what I can come up with and ping you if I have questions
[14:47] <ochosi> thanks!
[14:47] <jjfrv8> thank you!
[14:52] <ochosi> jjfrv8: btw, the comments are meant as feedback and suggestions, if you don't agree with some of them let me know!
[14:53] <jjfrv8> thanks, but I think all of the suggestions were good ones.
[14:53] <ochosi> ok, great
[14:54] <ochosi> andrzejr, ali1234: any idea why gtk3 indicators in the gtk2 panel would not use symbolic colors for the indicator-icons? (in the menu they seem fine)
[14:59] <jjfrv8> bbs
[16:27] <ochosi> andrzejr, ali1234: nvm, seems upstream doesn't support it :/
[19:16] <Unit193> ochosi: Sure, just AFAIK, won't autostart the live user.
[19:17] <ochosi> hm, that doesn't sounds very nice
[19:24] <Unit193> It's not so bad if you know the user is $flavorname.
[19:33] <elfy> default settings looks to be wrong on the current daily 
[19:34] <knome> in what way?
[19:34] <elfy> settings manager apps are in the settings menu or system menu - like they used to be
[19:34] <knome> hmm
[19:34] <elfy> and the daily is defaulting to bangla as language
[19:35] <elfy> at least it boots now
[19:35] <elfy> not sure which package to put that last one against
[19:35] <knome> heh
[19:37] <elfy> knome: you got any idea which package the default language should be reported against?
[19:37] <knome> not really
[19:37] <elfy> unless that's xubuntu-default-settings as well
[19:37] <knome> i guess you could ask in -release though
[19:39] <elfy> or -bigs
[19:40] <elfy> s/i/u
[19:41] <knome> i mean you could ask release if it's probably something they poked that broke it
[19:41] <knome> there shouldn't be that much anomalies ;)
[19:41] <elfy> I'd suspect it's tied up with lightdm things they did yesterday/today
[19:44] <knome> possibly
[19:44] <elfy> bug 1259662
[19:47] <elfy> seems to be a lot of people reporting issues with bugs against testcases instead of the package concerned
[19:47] <elfy> bug 1259525
[19:49] <Unit193> I've got a merge in for that one, user is xubuntu there is no password.
[19:50] <Unit193> Oh, I see.
[19:50] <elfy> Unit193: yea - but it shouldn't ask 
[19:50] <elfy> but the bug is wrong :)
[19:50] <elfy> shall slap obrien in the morning :)
[19:50] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-default-settings/session-fix/+merge/198177 look at the date.
[19:51] <elfy> mmm
[19:51] <elfy> so that deals with the username issue I assume
[19:51] <elfy> still got the menu's as an issue
[19:58] <Unit193> (Also have the merge request in for Lubuntu, and my goodness they have many sessions...)
[19:58] <knome> heh
[20:00] <Unit193> (https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/lubuntu-default-settings/fix-session/+merge/198189)
[20:00] <Unit193> knome: Can you, or did you review the other one?
[20:04] <jjfrv8> elfy, yeah there seems to be lots of stuff wrong with this daily - like most of the app shortcuts are missing
[20:04] <jjfrv8> I haven't had time to do a full post-install test
[20:05] <elfy> I'm guessing something is awry with the default-settings somewhere
[20:05] <elfy> but I'm not the person to ask to pin down a package :p
[20:05] <jjfrv8> did I miss the discussion on the new panel config option that appears on reboot?
[20:06] <Unit193> Got a shot?
[20:07] <jjfrv8> I'll have to do another install. give me a few minutes.
[20:08] <elfy> if you did I missed it as well
[20:08] <Unit193> !info xubuntu-default-settings trusty | Look at the version, nope.
[20:12] <elfy> Unit193 knome - current settings menu http://imagebin.org/281717
[20:12] <elfy> #wrong :p
[20:13] <Unit193> elfy: rm -rfv .config && sudo service lightdm restart  check your session, did you get a dialog box when you logged in?
[20:16] <Unit193> Or, just echo $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS
[20:16] <Unit193> The point is, you're in session Xfce.
[20:17] <jjfrv8> Unit193, elfy: http://imagebin.org/281720
[20:18] <Unit193> Yes, confirmed that it's defaulting to the Xfce session.
[20:18] <Unit193> (I booted vbox.
[20:18] <Unit193> )
[20:19] <Unit193> jjfrv8: If you remove .config and .cache, at the login screen change it to the Xubuntu session (top right button)
[20:20] <Unit193> ...And it's half English.
[20:21] <jjfrv8> Unit193, that worked.
[20:23] <jjfrv8> I told it I wanted it to log in automatically but it ignored that and made me log in on first reboot
[20:24] <Unit193> elfy: Should I/we/someone link the branches to the bugs?  And the packages are {l,x}ubuntu-default-settins (re: 1259525)
[20:24] <elfy> Unit193: aaah - right ok - so that default settings thing IS affecting that as well 
[20:25] <Unit193> Sure, but it boots, not as big of an issue as -gtk-greeter.
[20:25] <elfy> yep
[20:35] <elfy> Unit193: I'd assumed you were including that language in this
[20:36] <brainwash> is the language wrong on first session startup? it used to fall back to non english after a logout from the live session
[20:36] <elfy> it's wrong at boot to live session - though it is wrong that it's booting to login on live session
[20:37] <elfy> or #ubuntu-quality
[20:37] <Unit193> elfy: I have no idea what that is, but could be what the Washer of Brains said.
[20:37] <elfy> bah
[20:37] <brainwash> I noticed the described behavior in saucy back then
[20:38] <brainwash> after a logout the language was set to bengali(?)
[20:38] <elfy> bangla perhaps
[20:38] <brainwash> something like that, yes
[20:38] <elfy> so that's wrong anyway 
[20:39] <brainwash> so there should already exist a report for this issue
[20:39]  * elfy votes for fixing the sound indicator and calling saucy trusty and having 6 months off
[20:39] <brainwash> I prefer the real deal, gtk3 indicators :)
[20:40] <brainwash> sync indicator and message indicator are awesome
[20:40] <Unit193> That didn't work as well.
[20:42] <elfy> I'd prefer lots of things - I'll settle for something that works
[20:43] <elfy> but as I can't code I'll not whine - I just won't +1 releasing :p
[20:43] <elfy> in the meantime - I've gtg now
[21:31] <Unit193> http://unit193.net/dump/xubuntu-14.04-test-i386.iso{.zsync) should be the fixed version of todays daily.
[21:38] <slickymaster> night all
[21:40] <ochosi> hey slickymaster 
[21:40] <slickymaster> hi ochosi
[21:54] <Unit193> brainwash: That's a mighty weird bug, but hitting that one as well as the user one.
[21:56] <jjfrv8> Unit193, that iso looks much more betterer.
[21:58] <Unit193> jjfrv8: Yep, it's just the one merge in, though bugs would have to be filed against the other one of course.  Good that it works for you as well.
[21:59] <jjfrv8> it fixed the automatic login thing too.
[21:59] <Unit193> Yep, was expected.  The language fix is weird, for sure.  That's still a bug.
[22:36] <Unit193> Hopefully I didn't mess that up too much: bug 1259525