[01:40] <belkinsa> jenni: who is your owner?
[01:41] <jenni> belkinsa: 24.
[01:41] <belkinsa> Wait, yano is, isn't he?
[01:58] <yano> yes
[02:35] <thafreak> paultag: i like the idea of salt, but it's salt "states" are a bit confusing to me
[02:36] <thafreak> I've only really looked at it for sending commands to slaves to    perform
[02:36] <thafreak> i;ve been using ansible quite heavily actually
[02:36] <thafreak> I've found there's not much I can't do with it
[14:48] <thafreak> that's it, I've lost all hope for the future of humanity
[14:52] <thafreak> MY students aren't even smart enough to cheat right...
[14:55] <andygraybeal> nice
[14:55] <andygraybeal> do tell the story :)
[14:55] <andygraybeal> what do you teach?
[15:03] <thafreak> i'm teaching a programming course
[15:03] <thafreak> or trying to
[15:04] <thafreak> So aparently, if you don't explicitly TELL the students everything they need to do, they don't do anything
[15:04] <thafreak> my students behave exactly like my 6 year old
[15:04] <thafreak> Since I didn't explictly tell them to read each chapter of the book, they never did
[15:05] <thafreak> since I didn't explicitly tell them to pay attention to me during lectures, they never did
[15:05] <andygraybeal> i like it... are you teaching community college?
[15:05] <thafreak> And since I didn't dump tons of homework on them, they didn't seem it was necessary to practice anything on their own
[15:05] <thafreak> hahahaha
[15:06] <andygraybeal> i wen tto a community college.. and i fucking loved every bit of it... i went to regular college and wanted to kill myself.
[15:06] <thafreak> no, these kids paid good money
[15:06] <yano> i went to a trade school
[15:06] <yano> that sounds like trade school
[15:06] <andygraybeal> community college justseems so much better than regular school
[15:06] <yano> (i went in high school)
[15:06] <thafreak> they paid probably $1500 for this class, or someone did
[15:06] <andygraybeal> hi yano :)
[15:07] <thafreak> Partly it is my fault, I should have given them more work...
[15:07] <thafreak> But even when I said, THIS WILL BE ON THE FINAL, and went over it 3 times in the review
[15:07]  * belkinsa is in college for Medical Lab Sciences/Biology
[15:08] <yano> andygraybeal: hi
[15:08] <thafreak> the third time because one student wasn't paying attention the first two times we went over it and aparently didn't hear me
[15:08] <andygraybeal> thafreak, it is their own fault... i wouldn't worry
[15:08] <thafreak> I quit
[15:08] <thafreak> the worst part is all the damned cheating
[15:08] <thafreak> and they don't even do it right
[15:09] <andygraybeal> one of my teachers in community college said... if 100% of the class aces the first test we had... no more tests!!!  it was thebest class i wasever in.
[15:09] <thafreak> and then I call them out on cheating...does it stop, nope
[15:09] <andygraybeal> how do you cheat on programming course?
[15:09] <thafreak> i hate tests...as an instructor...they are a pain in the a$$ to make, and then grade, and thy don't really tell me anything
[15:09] <thafreak> copy/paste
[15:10] <thafreak> they failed at copy/paste in some cases...
[15:10] <andygraybeal> nice :)
[15:10] <andygraybeal> 0
[15:11] <thafreak> I put up an example that I did in class on github, and said it was only for looking at to get ideas, DO NOT copy/paste it and submit it as your own
[15:11] <thafreak> mainly because it wasn't 100% done
[15:11] <thafreak> just showed what I wanted to cover in class
[15:11] <thafreak> one student submitted it, 100% exactly as is
[15:12] <thafreak> he DID change the name at the top though
[15:12] <thafreak> I put a bunch of nonsens code at the bottom that did nothing
[15:12] <andygraybeal> nice :)
[15:12] <thafreak> I even put a comment above the nonsense code
[15:12] <thafreak> #copypasta trap
[15:12] <andygraybeal> :)  style
[15:12] <thafreak> i.e. if I see that, I know where it came from
[15:13] <thafreak> probably 5 of them had that code at the bottom
[15:13] <thafreak> a couple removed the comment about it being a trap for some reason
[15:13] <thafreak> but left the useless code
[15:13] <thafreak> probably because they didn't knwo what it did, so it must have been important right
[15:14] <andygraybeal> so you said you quit, as ... you just quit,. right now?
[15:15] <thafreak> It's stuff like this that makes me wonder what the point of college is anyway
[15:15] <thafreak> it's obvious that a large majority of people with degrees cheated their way though
[15:15] <thafreak> they just paid for a piece of paper
[15:15] <thafreak> Oh I quit a while ago :)
[15:15] <thafreak> I told them I won't be teaching this class again
[15:16] <thafreak> I was doing 2 classes this semester, and it is exponentially more work than a single class
[15:17] <thafreak> I'm sticking to the upper division classes, where most of the kids who refuse to think for themselves have been weeded out
[15:18] <thafreak> It's not my full time job by the way...this is one of my part time jobs...
[15:18] <thafreak> Alright , done venting
[15:19] <thafreak> So, who thinks we should shift all of IT to an aprenticeship style field, like the trades
[15:20] <thafreak> Are sysadmins really different than plumbers or electricians?
[15:20] <thafreak> Are programmers really different than carpenters?
[15:21] <andygraybeal> thafreak, i'm all for it.  i worked with a admin at a big university that thought everything was so over rated.. and he simply called himself an electronic plumber.
[15:21] <andygraybeal> it was a little bit of a joke, but in a serious way... he was getting paid astronomical amounts :)
[15:21] <thafreak> well so do some plumbers :)
[15:21] <thafreak> there are plumbers who make more than I probably ever will
[15:21] <thafreak> even with working 3 jobs ;)
[15:21] <andygraybeal> okay well, then i didn't realize that.
[15:22] <andygraybeal> yes anyway, i do agree with you
[15:22] <thafreak> and I'm not saying totally replace college either, well maybe for some people
[15:22] <thafreak> Like I don't know how much college classes will help a windows help desk person, that can be mostly on the job learning
[15:23] <thafreak> but programming and network engineer type stuff, college should be in the mix too
[15:23] <thafreak> but most trades, you go to night school
[15:23] <thafreak> until you become a journeyman
[15:24] <thafreak> so it still fits I think
[15:47] <cid420> sup all
[16:07] <andygraybeal> heya cid420
[17:26] <cid420> oh hey andy was working on my hosting promotions website.
[17:51] <andygraybeal> nice
[17:52] <andygraybeal> i cant type..got a kid in one arm
[17:52] <andygraybeal> :)
[18:07] <thafreak> oh that's right, was this your first andygraybeal?
[18:07] <andygraybeal> yea man!
[18:07] <andygraybeal> he's like 12 days old
[18:07] <andygraybeal> we've had him home for 2 days
[18:08] <thafreak> i remember, you said something on thanksgiving
[18:08] <andygraybeal> yea, he came out on thanksgiving!
[18:08] <andygraybeal> he had to be sent up to dublin methodist hospital and live in the NICU for 11 days or something
[18:08] <thafreak> my youngest will be 18months soon...feels like we just came home from the hospital not that long ago though
[18:09] <andygraybeal> we're down here near parkersburg
[18:09] <andygraybeal> nice man!
[18:09] <andygraybeal> get this my natural gas regulator just froze!
[18:09] <thafreak> well, I'm glad you guys have him home now!
[18:09] <andygraybeal> yea, it's great.  i'm happy too.
[18:09] <andygraybeal> he's happy and healthy and loves his mom's milk
[18:09] <thafreak> wait, so you have no heat now?
[18:10] <andygraybeal> yea, we just realized the regulator is dead... we're sitting at 68F degrees  inside right now, thank god the sun is shining
[18:10] <andygraybeal> a guy says he can get out here to show me how to thaw it out in an hour
[18:10] <thafreak> i hear that...hope you can get it fixed doon
[18:10] <thafreak> /doon/soon/
[18:10] <andygraybeal> yea, it should be good.  i just need to learn how to thaw it and remember to drain the water out of it before winter.
[18:11] <andygraybeal> it's my first house i've ever owned we've been here for years :)
[18:11] <andygraybeal> cid420, bro, i'm trying to get postfix to send mail so i get experience running mail server, also openvpn server and request tracker up and running :)
[18:11] <thafreak> yeah, home ownership does suck...except for the having a place to live part...that's cool :)
[18:12] <andygraybeal> yea, we got 18 acres of woods and 2 acres of field... it's friggen awesome
[18:12] <andygraybeal> i can shoot at whatever i want
[18:12] <andygraybeal> i can mow when ever i want and however i want... so i decided to say fuck using a tractor and i been using a scythe
[18:13] <andygraybeal> i tried to live in town once.. and that didn't go over well.
[18:14] <andygraybeal> cops are all ways around and hookers asking me for cigerettes.. fuck that all
[18:15] <andygraybeal> and nosy neighbors and keeping up with the joneses.
[18:15] <thafreak> we live on what used to be a farm...now it's a housing development...but not near any hookers at least ;)
[18:16] <andygraybeal> yea, i'm out at 3am... unloading my car.. cop pulls up and asks me what i'm doing... i'm like dood.. i'm minding my own business..
[18:16] <andygraybeal> he leaves me alone but man... no one needs that.
[18:16] <andygraybeal> and all the ordinances... holy beelzebub
[18:16] <andygraybeal> it's like walking on eggshells and not natural at all
[18:17] <thafreak> yeah, I don't even like driving into cities
[18:18] <andygraybeal> i got one two race tracks around and one mudbog track :)
[18:19] <andygraybeal> i love living out here in the middle of nowhere.
[19:34] <andygraybeal> i think i'm going to throw the towel in on getting postfix to work and get exim to work instead
[19:35] <andygraybeal> if i remember right, exim just kind of works for me...
[19:40] <andygraybeal> man, aptitude is treating me way better than apt-get ever did
[19:41] <paultag> d'aww.
[19:51] <andygraybeal> :)
[20:03] <Unit193> andygraybeal: What the heck type of community college did you go to?  One of my sisters went to private, one to community, and the first one had far, far less crap than my other sister.  Every class registration started at 5am, and servers went down (overload?) at 5:03 or some crap.  We live in the "city", and the only time I've been talked to by a cop when I wasn't doing anything was in another city, and of course we don't even have the ...
[20:03] <Unit193> ... other problem.
[20:04] <andygraybeal> it was out west
[20:04] <andygraybeal> i lived in a pretty seedy area
[20:05] <andygraybeal> but i can't stand cities
[20:08] <Unit193> I want to live somewhere large enough where everyone doesn't know you or want to talk to you, and has fairly good internet.  Otherwise, I want smaller. :D
[20:08] <Unit193> So, not were Paul is.
[20:08] <paultag> hahaha
[20:09] <paultag> alas, Cheers is just a myth
[20:13] <Unit193> Right, was thinking the small towns, where they all talk about you behind your back.
[20:14] <paultag> I live in Boston, the city
[20:14] <paultag> that ain't no small town :)
[20:14] <paultag> Well, s'vile, but same thing
[20:18] <Unit193> Aye, too big, I don't do well with too many people. :P
[20:18] <paultag> meh
[20:18]  * Unit193 lives in a small town.
[20:18] <paultag> yea
[20:18] <paultag> I love big cities
[20:19] <andygraybeal> i love the back roads.. i don't do well in the city driving at all
[20:19] <paultag> haha
[20:19] <paultag> word
[20:20] <andygraybeal> :)
[20:22] <Unit193> Akron is bad enough for me. ;P
[20:22] <paultag> akon
[20:29]  * dzho has gotten better with traffic in cities
[20:29]  * Unit193 wonders if he should bother paultag now, or wait more for Alioth. :D
[20:30] <paultag> whatdidido
[20:32] <Unit193> Oh nice, it didn't submit the last time. -_-
[20:32] <Unit193> paultag: Nothing, new upstream Dec 2
[20:32] <paultag> of alioth?
[20:33] <paultag> oh, no, of the script
[20:33] <paultag> email me
[20:33] <paultag> and let me know to review and upload it
[20:33] <Unit193> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/09/msg00516.html Also fixes that.
[20:33] <jenni> [ iproute transitional package going away... ] - https://j.mp/19CFdEZ
[21:42] <belkinsa> jenni: are you jenni?
[21:42] <belkinsa> Never mind.
[21:42] <jenni> belkinsa: Am I?
[21:43] <Unit193> jenni: Haya, baby. ;)
[21:43] <jenni> Unit193, What do you mean by baby?
[21:43] <Unit193> jenni: Oh, you know.
[21:44] <jenni> Unit193, No, I don't.
[21:44] <Unit193> Awwwh. :(
[21:44] <belkinsa> jenni: Yes, you do!
[21:44] <Unit193> Rejected again. :'(
[21:44] <jenni> belkinsa, I actually don't.
[21:45] <belkinsa> Whatever.  :)