[00:27] <slickymaster> knome, quick question
[00:28] <slickymaster> does bugs with a fix committed status should be added to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-docs?
[00:31] <knome> slickymaster, if they are related to the trusty translations cycle, yes, even with that status
[00:32] <knome> helps us see what was done when we release
[00:32] <slickymaster> they're not related to the translations, but they are directly related to the docs
[00:33] <slickymaster> bug 1238718 for instance
[00:34] <slickymaster> or this one, knome: 1243946
[00:34] <slickymaster> bug 1243946
[00:34] <knome> slickymaster, yes, they are valid
[00:35] <slickymaster> I'll add them then
[00:35] <slickymaster> tks
[00:36] <knome> np
[00:41] <slickymaster> I'm off
[00:42] <slickymaster> cy tomorrow guys
[03:54] <Unit193> ali1234: Got "Floating point exception" with xfwm4 scroll zoom.
[03:54] <ali1234> Unit193: yeah
[03:54] <ali1234> i sent a patch for that to the ml
[03:55] <ali1234> it's because you have compositor disabled
[03:55]  * Unit193 checks.
[03:55] <Unit193> Nope.
[03:56] <ali1234> then your x server incorrectly reports it's refresh rate; the patch fixes that too
[03:56] <Unit193> Likely.  Alright, thanks.
[03:59] <ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/xfwm4/commit/ce5f008584302362f6374201432f91e3d950715d
[04:00] <Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=ce5f008584302362f6374201432f91e3d950715d
[04:00] <ali1234> oh, i guess it was pulled
[04:00] <ali1234> so you're running with that fix?
[04:01] <Unit193> Should be, on the tabwin branch that just got master merged in.
[04:01] <Unit193> git20131211.648537c
[04:02] <ali1234> well, run it in gdb please
[04:03] <ali1234> it happens when you zoom in?
[04:04] <ali1234> tabwin branch doesn't have the fix
[04:04] <Unit193> Aye.  And gdb with xfwm hung, had to switch to a TTY and kill it.
[04:04] <Unit193> Oh?
[04:05] <ali1234> of yeah xfwm will hang in gdb if you build it with full debug
[04:05] <ali1234> i think there is a breakpoint at startup or something
[04:05] <ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/log/?h=ochosi/tabwin <- no fix
[04:05] <Unit193> Anywho, if it's not in, then sorry and I'll shutup.
[04:06] <ali1234> i'm surprised yoou hit this bug with compositor enabled to be honest
[04:06] <ali1234> not 100% surprised though, that's why i patched both problems :)
[04:06] <Unit193> It's crappy graphics, so expected.
[04:07] <Unit193> (Kind of why I wanted an option. :P )
[04:07] <ali1234> well, turn off compositing?
[04:07] <ali1234> does the zoom patch affect speed for you?
[04:07] <Unit193> Nah, I'll just avoid it.
[04:07] <ali1234> because it should not
[04:07] <ali1234> it should not do anything at all unless you zoom in
[04:07] <Unit193> I think it's fine.
[04:08] <ali1234> there's a couple of extra if's and that is about it
[04:09] <Unit193> (X has been running too long, it's slow anyway at 700MB of ram.)
[08:08] <ochosi> ali1234: yeah, haven't pulled your patch/es yet cause I wanted to wait for them to land in master
[08:27] <ali1234> well the thing is, they already have
[08:28] <ali1234> you've pulled some, but not all of them
[08:28] <ali1234> because i had to make a bugfix two days ago
[08:39] <ochosi> ali1234: i've only merged what was in master yesterday
[08:39] <ali1234> no, you haven't, check again :)
[08:39] <ochosi> oh crap
[08:39] <ochosi> yeah
[08:39] <ochosi> somehow i didnt pull :/
[08:40] <ochosi> ok, done now
[08:40] <ochosi> Unit193: just merged the latest master, in case you wanna rebuild your packages
[08:42] <ochosi> ali1234: anything else i can help with getting you started on the UI for panel-switch?
[08:42] <ali1234> do my christmas shopping for me?
[08:42] <ochosi> haha
[08:42] <ali1234> and also all the other work i'm supposed to do
[08:42] <ochosi> yeah, i guess that would help me too
[08:43] <ochosi> i was thinking in terms of whether the mockups i provided so far are sufficient and if you're happy with them
[08:43] <ali1234> yes i am happy with it
[08:43] <ali1234> i do have one question: what is that icon in the top right?
[08:43] <ochosi> k
[08:43] <ochosi> a save-as button
[08:44] <ali1234> like "save current"
[08:44] <ali1234> i think it should be a "+" symbol then, that kinda looks like a download button or somehting
[08:44] <ochosi> in fact the icon should be slightly different, but it was close enough for a mockup
[08:44] <ochosi> hmwell, that's the save-icon in our icon-theme atm
[08:44] <ochosi> you can decide you go for gtk-add instead of gtk-save-as
[08:44] <ali1234> yeah, we want the "new" icon
[08:45] <ochosi> right, that's gtk-add then
[08:45] <ali1234> also, do we really need "apply"
[08:46] <ali1234> we could have "close" and "revert" (or "cancel")
[08:46] <ali1234> and have it change the layout as soon as you select a new one
[08:46] <ali1234> this would also remove the need for screenshots
[08:46] <ochosi> yeah, i was thinking about that before
[08:46] <ochosi> it's definitely a good approach
[08:47] <ochosi> but if you do "live previews" of the panel configs, something like an "apply" button to make clear to the user that his previous config will be gone would make sense to me
[08:48] <ali1234> i'm no expert on UI design
[08:48] <ali1234> maybe we should go ask the Ubuntu design clinic :P
[08:48] <ochosi> haha
[08:48] <elfy> ali1234: you beat me to the punchline :p
[08:48]  * ochosi feels sick
[08:48] <elfy> :(
[08:48] <ochosi> maybe i need to go to the design clinic ^
[08:49] <elfy> lol
[08:49] <ochosi> ali1234: ok, so i guess i'll work on alternative UIs for the panel-switch app then
[08:50] <ochosi> without screenshot blah and with a revert or apply button
[08:50] <Unit193> ochosi: I could.
[08:51] <ali1234> Unit193: if you're packaging, can you also try to enable MONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP from the rules?
[08:51] <ali1234> it's not enabled by default, but it's needed to fix the background flickering
[08:51] <ochosi> true that
[08:51] <Unit193> Well in theory this was tabwin, but could.
[08:52] <ochosi> that would be nice
[08:52] <ochosi> if you do really nice packaging work on it, maybe we can sneak it into 14.04
[08:52] <ali1234> it's not a configure option either, so you'll need to add -DMONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP to the gcc command
[08:52] <Unit193> That's not likely. :P
[08:52] <ali1234> "somehow"
[08:52] <Unit193> ali1234: Thanks.. :P
[08:53] <ali1234> alternatively just patch it in to the source, but i think doing it from the rules is cleaner if possible
[08:53] <ali1234> i would add it to configure, but i have absolutely no idea how that stuff works
[08:53] <ochosi> me neither unfortunately
[08:54] <ali1234> "stop the autoconf insanity" was posted 10 years ago, and it's still true today
[09:23] <Unit193> ali1234: What should I see with this one? :)
[09:23] <ali1234> with monitor root pixmap?
[09:23] <Unit193> Yes.
[09:24] <Unit193> Everything seems to be working, but I'd like to confirm before uploadin'
[09:24] <ali1234> well... if you restart xfdesktop (assuming you have the latest version) then you should not see grey background while it restarts
[09:24] <Unit193> Heh, I do not. :P
[09:25] <ali1234> when you log in, you should see wallpaper all the time, never any grey - again you need the very latest gtk-greeter too
[09:25] <ali1234> basically you should never see grey
[09:25] <ali1234> you can test it is really working by killing xfdesktop repeatedly until it really dies
[09:25] <ali1234> and then do "hsetroot -solid \#ff0000" - the background should turn red
[09:26] <Unit193> So, sounds like I'll have to setup a vm and compile from git tomorrow, bleh.
[09:34] <elfy> lderan: can you update us on autopilot at tonights meeting
[09:35] <elfy> I'll try and catch ip with DanChapman today 
[09:35] <lderan> aye that'll be good
[09:49] <Unit193> I think my eyes will start bleeding if I look much longer at this red...
[10:08] <ochosi> :)
[10:20] <Unit193> Technically I said Bug #1245585 in the wrong channel, but he isn't in here.
[11:07] <slickymaster> morning all
[11:08] <elfy> good morning slickymaster 
[11:34] <DanChapman> elfy hey sorry i've completely borked my system upgrading to trusty just gonna reinstall then I will give you a ping :-)
[11:35] <elfy> ok :)
[11:37] <slickymaster> ochosi: is this still applicable to xfdesktop: "you can customize your menu by copying ''xfce-applications.menu'' to ''$XDG_CONFIG_HOME/menus''?
[11:40] <ochosi> good question
[11:40] <ochosi> eric_the_idiot: ^ ?
[11:44] <eric_the_idiot> kinda? It is because xfdesktop uses garcon but it should also apply to any other app that does as well (the menu plugin, the whisker menu I imagine)
[11:48] <ali1234> when i customized my main menu i did not need to copy anything... it just worked
[11:48] <ali1234> well, except for the bugs in the menu editor... had to work around those
[11:49] <ali1234> i didn't try to customize the xfdesktop menu though, cos i don't use it
[11:59] <slickymaster> ok, thanks eric_the_idiot and ochosi 
[12:00] <slickymaster> ochosi: I'll keep it in the xfdesktop documentation then
[12:15] <DanChapman> elfy hey o/
[12:16] <elfy> hi DanChapman - 2 ticks :)
[12:19] <elfy> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/Xubuntu_Post_Install/+merge/198724
[12:19] <elfy> DanChapman: ok - here now :)
[12:22] <knome> elfy, line 41 </dd>hel
[12:23] <DanChapman> elfy howdy, so i have had a little play with autopilot and the majority of xubuntu default apps, So there are quite a few that can be done with introspection but also the majority of the apps that can't can still be tested using process manager similar to the current firefox test. Has lderan been working on any tests?
[12:23] <elfy> DanChapman: I'm not sure - expecting an update today on that 
[12:23] <lderan> hello DanChapman 
[12:24] <elfy> DanChapman: so - introspectable = we can get a test to run ?
[12:24] <lderan> been trying to get a test working on the settings manager
[12:24] <elfy> knome: thanks
[12:25] <knome> also some <dl>'s seem to be missing
[12:25] <elfy> possibly I lost the damned script thing to check it 
[12:25] <knome> around line 33, and a </dl> in line 31
[12:25] <knome> heh
[12:25] <knome> i can deal with that though
[12:26] <knome> i'm wondering if it made sense to split those tests again...
[12:26] <DanChapman> elfy nope introspectable is that we can access the properties of the application so click buttons all that business. Now using process manager which is an older autopilot feature basically gives you a view of the application window it relies heavily on keyboard navigation which needs to be done carefully but even simple loading an application and testing window title and a couple of other keyboard shortcuts are always tests worth having
[12:26] <knome> elfy, one per test, so 7 tests in total
[12:27] <elfy> knome: not sure what you mean - but frankly I'd rather have 1 test - got more chance of getting testing done then
[12:28] <knome> elfy, the problem with one test is that if you run the test, but only can run 2 of the optional tests, you have then run 3-4 tests of 7
[12:28] <elfy> DanChapman: agreed in theory
[12:28] <knome> elfy, what should you do? mark as passed?
[12:28] <elfy> knome: true
[12:28] <DanChapman> elfy the apps we can get proper meaty tests for are gthumb, gnumeric, simple scan, transmission, calc and possibly abiword (depending on getting better access to the drawing canvas) and then ther eis also the current FIrefox evince and fileroller tests to add to that list
[12:28] <knome> elfy, but everything didn't pass, because you didn't test it
[12:28] <knome> elfy, so we can (and probably will) end up with skewed test results with that
[12:29] <lderan> DanChapman, so the xfce apps are the ones that require the introsepctable?
[12:29] <knome> elfy, also thinking the monitor test could be just moved to the monitor dialog package test
[12:29] <elfy> knome: frankly I'm getting really cynical about the whole thing - doesn't seem to matter if we have 1 or 1 million tests - hardly anyone bothers doing them anyway
[12:29] <knome> ;)
[12:29] <knome> true that
[12:29] <knome> that's why i thought they might be more worthwhile in the package tests
[12:30] <knome> but i don't know
[12:30] <elfy> easy enough to do 
[12:30] <knome> other partitions and usb drives seem to be important features
[12:30] <knome> so at least they sound like good to keep on the post-install test
[12:30] <elfy> I'm happy enough to move away from post install testing and moving the whole shebang to package testing - which is what they really are
[12:30] <knome> yep
[12:31] <knome> i would say
[12:31] <knome> suspend is a bit meh.
[12:31] <elfy> so in effect we move to images testing as JUST that
[12:31] <elfy> and everything post install becomes a package test of some sort
[12:32] <knome> so at least apart from the partitios/usb drive and suspend test, everything could go to package testing
[12:32] <knome> we can add a link to the post-install test
[12:32] <knome> saying
[12:32] <knome> "this is not part of the test itself, but if you have X, run this package test and report results"
[12:33] <elfy> DanChapman: probably best if you talk to lderan - I'm all at sea wiht it and I handed it over to him :)
[12:34] <elfy> knome: not really following you here I'm afraid 
[12:34] <knome> elfy, just a sec
[12:34] <elfy> are you saying we should have a post install test now? 
[12:34] <knome> kind of...
[12:34] <knome> wait! :)
[12:35] <elfy> putting kettle on ... 
[12:35] <DanChapman> lderan in theory all Gtk apps 'should' be introspectable, but sadly it would probably end up meaning changes would be needed upstream for it to work. the true xfce like xfce4_screenshooter i had no success getting any of them to launch but I can get them to launch with process manager
[12:35] <lderan> i've been able to get the app to open but then the test just hangs there until i quit the app manually
[12:36] <ali1234> what do they actually need to provide?
[12:36] <DanChapman> lderan process manager offers a limited amout of testable properties see http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/api/process.html#autopilot.process.Application
[12:36] <DanChapman> and process.Window
[12:38] <lderan> thanks for that DanChapman :D
[12:38] <ali1234> does introspection rely on dbus?
[12:40] <lderan> will try that out during the lunch hour to see if i have more success
[12:44] <DanChapman> ali1234 yes it does, see http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/api/introspection.html?highlight=dbus#autopilot.introspection.dbus 
[12:45] <ali1234> i don't get it. does that mean every app has to export introspection objects for it's entire gui on dbus?
[12:46] <DanChapman> Not that i'm aware of, Autopilot creates the objects by polling dbus for the given search criteria
[12:46] <ali1234> but if the app isn't on dbus...
[12:46] <knome> elfy, PoC at http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/254/builds/27971/testcases/1569/results
[12:46] <ali1234> is there some documentation that explains this at high level?
[12:47] <ali1234> but not so high level as to completely gloss over how it all works
[12:47] <knome> elfy, some fiddling for the links per cycle will need to be done, but that's minor
[12:48] <elfy> ok that makes sense to me now :)
[12:48] <knome> we probably want to talk with balloons if he approves this
[12:48] <knome> but for me, that would be the best solution
[12:48] <elfy> knome: I'll catch him later today 
[12:49] <knome> i've always felt bad when i've marked such test "passed" even if i can't test with all the peripherals
[12:49] <elfy> yea
[12:49] <elfy> I know what you mean by that - I find things with bugs and 'pass' them - because I know this or that
[12:49] <knome> almost the same ;)
[12:49] <knome> but this avoids that problem
[12:49] <elfy> but the way the pages are written - any image test will be a fail :p
[12:50] <knome> :P
[12:50] <knome> i guess...
[12:50] <elfy> obviously if it's a 'real' fail I don't pass them :)
[12:51] <elfy> but that ^^ deals with us nicely I think 
[12:52] <DanChapman> ali1234, ill just have a look see if I can find any
[12:53] <knome> yep
[12:53] <elfy> knome: I'll talk to balloons later today and assuming he's got no issues then I'll do it all properly today/tomorrow and get the new tests on the trackers asap
[12:59] <ali1234> DanChapman: is the problem that many/most xfce apps are still gtk2?
[13:02] <DanChapman> ali1234 it should work for both 2/3+, I can't find any docs on a higher level i will prod thomi about it later to find out more
[13:03] <DanChapman> from what I can see the app needs to be running on either the session or system dbus or custom bus such as on an abstract socket
[13:05] <DanChapman> ali1234, found something better http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/appendix/protocol.html?highlight=wire
[13:10] <ali1234> so that whole interface is somehow made by the gtk library, and the app "shouldn't" have to know about it...
[13:10] <knome> elfy, the problem is... not all of the tests that we are "linking" to exist..
[13:11] <elfy> oh
[13:11] <knome> elfy, and the further problem...
[13:12] <knome> elfy, we need to link to a specific milestone
[13:12] <knome> elfy, which is why this testcase would need poking at least once a cycle
[13:12] <knome> elfy, because the links change every milestone
[13:12] <elfy> yep - I understoof that to be the case
[13:12] <knome> the other option is to add a feature to the tracker
[13:12] <knome> to be able to link to a certain testcase
[13:13] <knome> and show all available milestones for it
[13:13] <knome> which would be interesting...
[13:13] <elfy> indeed :)
[13:14] <knome> that's possible, but whether stgraber wants to implement that is a different question
[13:14] <elfy> lol
[13:14] <knome> i mean ultimately it's just enabling one more view and a simple sql query
[13:14] <knome> so if not trivial, at least really close
[13:14] <elfy> ok
[13:19] <elfy> knome: so - for the time being do we need the things that have no testcase to be tested - especially as they are all optional?
[13:19] <elfy> can we not - leave the optional part empty of test links for now - and then add them later
[13:20] <elfy> at least then we know we're getting real passes - not vague ones
[13:20] <knome> we should probably just not mention those tests at all.
[13:20] <elfy> so - raise bugs for missing ones, then when we have them all - add them to the testcase
[13:20] <knome> yep, or even one by one :)
[13:21] <elfy> or that :)
[13:21] <knome> sounds like a plan
[13:22] <elfy> ok 
[13:23] <elfy> knome: I'll remove the optional tests from that sanbox one then - so I've got an up to date thing to talk to Nick about
[13:23] <elfy> knome: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/testcases/1569/info
[13:24] <elfy> hi GridCube 
[13:24] <GridCube> hi
[13:25] <knome> elfy, fixed the dl's
[13:25] <elfy> in what?
[13:25] <knome> in the link you just sent me
[13:25] <lderan> DanChapman, i am using the code in the firefox test to open up the settings manager, it opens up okay by then the test crashes saying the  no window was opened
[13:25] <elfy> knome: oh - ok :) 
[13:26] <elfy> knome: so assuming that all is ok with Nick - I will create a new testcase against that, add it to tracker - replace the 2 current post install tests with that single one
[13:26] <elfy> is that right?
[13:27] <knome> yes... though let's also discuss it in the meeting today before pushing :)
[13:27] <elfy> yep
[13:27] <elfy> I'll add it now
[13:27] <knome> cheeers
[13:27] <knome> -e
[13:28] <DanChapman> ali1234, It would appear autopilot hasn't been built against Gtk2 :-( they should probably take that out of the docs. Apparently it wouldn't be too difficult to support it
[13:30] <DanChapman> lderan hmmm i've not had that with the process manager before. 2 secs i'll boot up a vm
[13:43] <DanChapman> lderan can you paste the output your getting seems i can;t boot todays image
[13:47] <lderan> sure
[13:51] <lderan> DanChapman, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6561437/
[13:56] <elfy> DanChapman: am I right in saying that all of the xubuntu autopilot image tests are failing?
[13:58] <DanChapman> they are indeed thay aren't even running due to the bug where the user-session isn't set and not being able to get to the live desktop
[13:58] <elfy> ok 
[13:58] <elfy> assumed that to be the case
[13:58] <DanChapman> elfy same for lubuntu as well 
[14:01] <DanChapman> lderan thanks, is it xfsettingsd.desktop for the desktop file?
[14:04] <lderan> xfce-settings-manager.desktop is what i'm using
[14:07] <DanChapman> ahh ok ill try that
[14:10] <DanChapman> lderan http://paste.ubuntu.com/6561526/ works for me 'Ran 1 test in 0.475s OK'
[14:16] <lderan> DanChapman, i will try that later after work
[14:27] <jjfrv8> slickymaster, I saw your ping about your work on Usage. xfdesktop is kind of different in that there is no separate Preferences menu selection...
[14:27] <jjfrv8> so that there is unavoidably some overlap between Usage and Prefs
[14:28] <jjfrv8> I think we'll just have to let ochosi weigh in on whether we're getting it right or not
[14:28] <jjfrv8> I still have not gotten around to adding the 4.10 stuff to my section
[14:29] <jjfrv8> ochosi, and I still have one more of your suggestions to address but the rest are implemented
[14:49] <ochosi> jjfrv8: nice, thanks! i'll try to review it once it's done
[15:03] <slickymaster> elfy: ping
[15:04] <elfy> pong
[15:06] <slickymaster> elfy: the Panel popup added to 1562 testcase card you add on our Trello board
[15:07] <elfy> yea
[15:07] <slickymaster> juast a sec
[15:09] <slickymaster> elfy: back again, sorry but was receiving a strange log from a database here at work
[15:09] <elfy> :)
[15:10] <slickymaster> anyway, what i meant to ask you is does that card refers to bug 1256894
[15:10] <elfy> yep
[15:10] <slickymaster> thought so
[15:10] <slickymaster> I' already had added a card for that, yesterday
[15:10] <elfy> oh - I see you did one for it in To Do 
[15:10] <slickymaster> yeaps :)
[15:11] <slickymaster> np
[15:11] <elfy> I put it in doing - as it's in progress
[15:11] <slickymaster> either that or I'll delete the one in the ToDo
[15:11] <elfy> archived the other one now
[15:11] <elfy> all done :)
[15:11] <slickymaster> okie dokie
[15:12] <slickymaster> elfy: just going to edit the card description and add there the LP bug number
[15:12] <elfy> ok 
[15:15] <slickymaster> jjfrv8,, I've noticed that "singularity" about xfdesktop. Let's see what ochosi has to sai abou it
[15:15] <slickymaster> *about
[15:15] <ochosi> slickymaster: sorry, about what exactly?
[15:15] <ochosi> you mean usage vs. prefs?
[15:16] <slickymaster> yeaps, ochosi 
[15:17] <ochosi> it's probably good to do it like it is in the current docs
[15:17] <ochosi> i.e. 4.8/4.10
[15:18] <ochosi> only have brief mention in prefs that certain options exist and mention in a sentence what they do, but link to the usage-page for the full description
[15:18] <ochosi> that way the prefs page remains a bit shorter and easier to go through
[15:18] <ochosi> but yeah, in general i can also imagine merging the two pages to some extent
[15:19] <ochosi> what do you guys think?
[15:20] <slickymaster> IMO, as they are now, they are a bit redundant
[15:20] <slickymaster> but there's the desktop menu item to finish
[15:20] <slickymaster> at least in the Usage section
[15:21] <slickymaster> but I suspect that it occur again those similarities
[15:23] <slickymaster> it will ^^
[15:29] <slickymaster> ei elfy, he've hit 2,000,000 threads on the forum. Amazing!
[15:33] <ochosi> slickymaster, jjfrv8: well i think we oughta find a way to make things less redundant. especially with the 4.8/10 docs coming into the picture as well, those pages will become longer and more difficult to keep an overview on..
[15:41] <slickymaster> yes ^^
[15:42] <elfy> slickymaster: yea 
[15:43] <jjfrv8> ochosi, slickymaster, I'll start trimming the prefs page down to the minimum
[15:43] <ochosi> jjfrv8: i'd say just copy-paste the stuff over to usage
[15:43] <ochosi> things don't have to be written twiice
[15:44] <ochosi> at least what's missing or improveable there
[15:44] <elfy> hi PaulW2U 
[15:44] <slickymaster> and remove the existent references to see the prefs section 
[15:44] <PaulW2U> hi elfy, just lurking :)
[15:45] <elfy> yep - I see you lurking about :)
[15:45] <elfy> PaulW2U: and thanks for testing and reporting
[15:45] <slickymaster> jjfrv8, ochosi, I'll wait for the rework jjfrv8 will to and then I'll finish the desktop menu item
[15:45] <slickymaster> will do ^^
[15:46] <PaulW2U> np, just getting into it, especially as I do now use Xubuntu amongst other flavours
[15:46] <elfy> it's appreciated :)
[15:47] <ochosi> slickymaster: makes sense, thanks!
[16:29] <elfy> knome: balloons is good with those with the post install changes
[16:29] <knome> okay
[16:30] <knome> let's go over them in the meeting and then proceed
[16:30] <elfy> yep
[16:30]  * elfy has a list of #info's for the meeting today
[16:31] <knome> cool
[16:41] <skellat>  elfy: You've got a +1 from me for Alpha 1 participation.  I've got a medical appointment in 80 minutes and won't be able to make it to meeting.
[16:41] <elfy> skellat: ok
[16:59] <ochosi> knome: might not be able to make the meeting as i'll be on my way home then
[16:59] <ochosi> no significant updates from my side anyway though
[17:00] <knome> heh, ok
[17:03] <lderan> when is the meeting?
[17:04] <slickymaster> 19:00 UTC lderan 
[17:04] <lderan> thanks
[17:07] <GridCube> !time
[17:08] <GridCube> ha, thats not the same factoid that if you do /msg ubottu time
[17:20] <lderan> that bot is crazy :P
[17:21] <knome> !q ubottu
[17:21] <knome> eh
[17:22] <knome> GridCube, it is not.
[18:06] <brainwash> ochosi: if I set the background color of the gtk3 indicator menu to "transparent" (xfce.css), the background of the text and all images will be consistent and the play button of the sound indicator will have the subtle glow
[18:06] <ochosi> brainwash: it's a known issue that'll hopefully be fixed
[18:07] <brainwash> mmh ok
[18:07] <ochosi> one downside of mixing gtk2+3
[18:07] <brainwash> and I noticed that after resuming from hibernation lightdm gtk greeter displayed the "login" button instead of the "unlock" one
[18:07] <ochosi> hibernation?
[18:08] <ochosi> i thought that's disabled by default
[18:08] <ochosi> or even: not easy to enable
[18:08] <brainwash> should be the same for suspend (not supported by my mainboard/hdd)
[18:08] <ochosi> i suppose it's a lightdm issue, the greeter only reacts to the hints it gets
[18:09] <brainwash> so I cannot test suspend
[18:09] <ochosi> not sure, hibernate isn't officially supported by ubuntu afaik
[18:09] <ochosi> i can try to test that later
[18:09] <ochosi> but it used to work fine
[18:09] <ochosi> gotta go
[18:09] <ochosi> bbl
[18:09] <brainwash> but it's about the mechanic 
[18:09] <brainwash> the session is locked
[18:10] <brainwash> so the "unlock" button should appear
[18:20] <Unit193> knome: Saucy is no longer the topic, I don't think we care about the release schedule of it. :P
[18:21] <knome> Unit193, yep.
[18:21] <Unit193> Danke.
[19:02] <knome> let's start the meeting in a few mins, i need to set up a temp office
[19:03] <pleia2> ok
[19:04] <elfy> kettle time then
[19:04] <Unit193> Was thinking coffee, yeah.
[19:11] <knome> mmkay
[19:11] <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
[19:11] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Dec 12 19:11:12 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:11] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[19:11] <knome> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[19:11] <knome> #topic Items carried on
[19:11] <knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting 
[19:11] <knome> #action knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
[19:11] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
[19:11] <knome> TBD
[19:12] <knome> #action skellat and ali1234 to look at the SRU progress for indicator-sound-GTK2 
[19:12] <meetingology> ACTION: skellat and ali1234 to look at the SRU progress for indicator-sound-GTK2
[19:12] <knome> ali1234, are you around?
[19:12] <ali1234> o/
[19:12] <knome> ali1234, what's up with that?
[19:12] <ali1234> someone uploaded it to saucy proposed
[19:12] <ali1234> y'all need to verify it
[19:12] <knome> ok, cool, so it's progressing
[19:12] <Unit193> It's not been accepted AFAIK.
[19:13] <knome> #info Uploaded to saucy-proposed but not accepted yet; will follow up on next meeting
[19:13] <knome> looks like the rest are pretty much done
[19:13] <knome> #topic Team updates
[19:13] <knome> use #info and #action
[19:14] <knome> any updates?
[19:14] <elfy> I've got a list of them - shall I go for it
[19:14] <knome> go ahead
[19:14] <elfy> #info Going to use this as the call for testing schedule http://pad.ubuntu.com/OHGoAbZPji
[19:14] <elfy> #info Image testing: 64 bit - 5 people did 7.3% of all possible tests and for 32 bit - 4 people did 13.2% of all possible tests
[19:14] <Noskcaj> gthumb 3.2.5 is now uploaded
[19:14] <elfy> #info Automatic image testing - working for us now, though currently all failing due to the user-session bug, can be seen here https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/All/job/ubiquity_ap-xubuntu_devel_daily-run/
[19:14] <knome> Noskcaj, use #info please
[19:14] <elfy> #info Package testing - 13/13 Mandatory, 4/5 Run Once, 10/22 Optional - atm 3 people tested packages(these all need further testing calls though) re schedule
[19:14] <elfy> #info Used the contact team members (xubuntu-testers) for testing call last time, 1 person amongst those mentioned above seems new to me
[19:14] <elfy> #info QA team is running now - good forward step this, everyone knows (or should) what each other is working on
[19:14] <elfy> #info Call to be written explaining exploratory testing - these will be reported via packages tracker, but is about people testing when they're using apps rather than to a schedule
[19:14] <elfy> done
[19:14] <Noskcaj> #info gthumb 3.2.5 is now uploaded, a second upload will re-add webapps
[19:15] <jjfrv8> #info Sent "What's New in Trusty" doc proposal email to ML
[19:15] <elfy> you might want to look at that 2nd #info - abysmal in my opinion
[19:15] <knome> elfy, wondering if it would make more sense to try to format that in the same way as the release schedule
[19:15] <knome> cool to hear about automatic image testing :)
[19:16] <lderan> #info autopilot tests has a bit of a step forward, looks like we can do some basic testing with the xfce at the moment (checking to see if they open)
[19:16] <elfy> knome: perhaps - but as it's only really going to be me or the QA team working from it - not sure it's that important
[19:16] <knome> elfy, as long as it works for you...
[19:17] <elfy> yep
[19:17] <knome> let's get back to testing/qa later
[19:17] <knome> any other updates?
[19:17] <elfy> k
[19:18] <knome> this has clearly been a slower week, but that's only expected because christmas is so near
[19:18] <knome> #topic Announcements
[19:18] <knome> #subtopic Changes in Lionel Le Folgoc's leadership positions 
[19:18] <knome> effective from this moment of time, lionel (mr_pouit) will step down as the technical lead
[19:19] <knome> as you all might have gathered, he hasn't been awfully active recently, and we both thought this is a step towards a better future; with an active technical lead
[19:20] <knome> he will continue as the debian liaison
[19:21] <elfy> so who's going to be the active technical lead now?
[19:21] <knome> i haven't got into that yet :)
[19:21] <micahg-work> hrm
[19:21] <knome> i will have to talk to the team in the following days about that
[19:22] <knome> #info Lionel will step down from the Technical Lead position, but will stay as the Debian Liaison
[19:22] <knome> anybody want to add something, or have any further questions?
[19:23] <elfy> not at present
[19:23] <knome> #action knome to update the Leaders wikipage
[19:23] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to update the Leaders wikipage
[19:24] <knome> but yeah, it is a good question who will become the next technical lead
[19:24] <knome> however, do not panic; in practice the situation isn't much different from what it has been during the last few cycles
[19:24] <PhoenixSTF> sorry to ask but what is technical lead?
[19:25] <PhoenixSTF> not applying just wondering!
[19:25] <knome> the person that's responsible for technical issue consideration
[19:25] <knome> practically the team always discusses issues together
[19:26] <knome> and ultimately the project lead has a veto vote, even on technical issues
[19:26] <knome> anyway, i will be in touch with people about this ASAP
[19:26] <pleia2> Micah Gersten is our only other person on that team
[19:26] <pleia2> micahg :)
[19:26] <knome> on -dev, yes
[19:27] <Noskcaj> Can i get put into -dev yet or is there an application process?
[19:27] <knome> by team i meant the xubuntu team ;)
[19:27] <pleia2> knome: ah
[19:27] <knome> but sure, the -dev team as well.
[19:28] <knome> being approved to -dev comes with certain access rights, and i would consider only people who have xubuntu packageset upload rights qualified
[19:29] <pleia2> yeah
[19:29] <elfy> so - we should have had 'talks' by the next meeting? if so perhaps we should move along and talk about that properly afterwards
[19:29] <knome> yep.
[19:29] <pleia2> is that process ubuntu dev PPU application?
[19:29] <knome> pleia2, i would imagine so
[19:29] <knome> pleia2, so, DMB approves
[19:29] <micahg-work> Noskcaj, let
[19:29]  * pleia2 nods
[19:30] <micahg-work> Noskcaj, let's review that outside the meeting
[19:30] <Noskcaj> ok
[19:30] <knome> and yep, sure; just wanted to answer any and every question.
[19:30] <knome> anybody else has announcements?
[19:31] <elfy> not from me
[19:31] <lderan> nope
[19:31] <knome> #topic New and emerging items
[19:31] <knome> #subtopic Alpha participation
[19:31] <knome> i think we've pretty much planned this already on previous meetings, so...
[19:31] <knome> #vote Participate in both alphas (+1) or not (-1); team members can vote
[19:31] <meetingology> Please vote on: Participate in both alphas (+1) or not (-1); team members can vote
[19:31] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:31] <knome> +1
[19:31] <meetingology> +1 received from knome
[19:32] <elfy> +1
[19:32] <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
[19:32] <pleia2> +1
[19:32] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[19:32] <jjfrv8> +1
[19:32] <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
[19:32] <elfy> I've got a proxy +1 from skellat too
[19:32] <knome> yep, i can confirm that
[19:32] <micahg-work> +1
[19:32] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg-work
[19:32] <Unit193> +1 It'd be nice to have a better boot up than right now though.
[19:32] <meetingology> +1 It'd be nice to have a better boot up than right now though. received from Unit193
[19:33] <knome> Unit193, better meaning "it works better" or "it works at all" ? :)
[19:33] <Unit193> knome: Technically it works since you can get it to login.
[19:33] <knome> :)
[19:33] <knome> yep, we should improve that.
[19:34] <knome> #endvote
[19:34] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Participate in both alphas (+1) or not (-1); team members can vote
[19:34] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:34] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:34] <knome> #subtopic Replacing post installation tests
[19:34] <knome> #info Proposal: Replace current post install tests (http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1434/info and http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1434/info with a single test http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/testcases/1569/info . Tests for old optional items to be created and then added to new single test. 
[19:35] <knome> elfy, ?
[19:35] <knome> do you have a question or...
[19:35]  * elfy ?
[19:35] <knome> hehe
[19:35] <elfy> sigh - me?
[19:35] <knome> okay, so no question (i know i asked to add this to the list)
[19:35] <knome> so basically, we're going to change the post installation tests
[19:35] <ochosi> bleh, just returned home
[19:35] <elfy> oic lol - no - I'm making a statement :)
[19:35] <knome> if nobody objects, we will just go ahead with that
[19:36] <knome> basically, we want to drop the peripheral/optional tests from the main test
[19:36] <knome> and move those into package tests
[19:36] <knome> we will still link to those package tests as appropriate though
[19:37] <knome> but this should eliminate running only 2/7 of a test and still marking it "passed"
[19:37] <knome> this way we should get more accurate results as well
[19:37] <knome> some testcases need to be written, but i'm sure elfy will follow up on that
[19:37] <elfy> yep - on my list 
[19:37] <elfy> already
[19:37] <knome> any questions from others?
[19:38] <elfy> wb ochosi 
[19:39] <knome> #subtopic "What's new" for LTS
[19:39] <knome> jjfrv8, want to share some thoughts?
[19:40] <jjfrv8> well I don't know if everyone has seen the email yet, but we would like some feedback on whether
[19:40] <pleia2> I like the idea, and I think we might include a "what's new since last release and since last lts"
[19:40] <knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-December/009517.html
[19:40] <knome> the email
[19:40] <jjfrv8> to do a "what's new" page for Trusty
[19:40] <elfy> I saw 
[19:40] <pleia2> I think installation slideshow should only be since saucy though
[19:41] <jjfrv8> we've got a pretty full BP for trusty so we would probably need some help with it
[19:41] <micahg-work> yeah, that makes sense
[19:41] <elfy> I like the idea on general, not sure whether we need to seperate them though
[19:41] <micahg-work> there should be an LTS -> LTS what's new though
[19:41] <knome> developers should help with gathering the things
[19:41] <pleia2> it shouldn't be too much work, since we already have to write this stuff for release announcements
[19:41] <knome> i mean, the subject matter
[19:41] <Unit193> elfy: A little bit, since it doesn't apply the same to both groups.
[19:41] <micahg-work> grab the CD manifest and diff?
[19:41] <knome> -docs should just overlook the process and make it readable for end-users ;)
[19:42] <pleia2> knome: yeah
[19:42] <elfy> Unit193: I guess so
[19:42] <knome> micahg-work, that's one option, but i'd rather focus on what "looks" new from the user POV
[19:42] <knome> eg. run both the old and new release in VMs
[19:42] <knome> and see what's new in basic functionality etc.
[19:42] <knome> but whatever way works for me
[19:43] <micahg-work> knome, sure, I was just suggesting an easy way to see the new apps/version changes
[19:43] <knome> (the more ways we can cover, the better, because that way we'll catch more things)
[19:43] <knome> micahg-work, shouldn't pretty much everything be updated from precise->trusty? :)
[19:44] <knome> other questions?
[19:44] <jjfrv8> when will we know e.g. what things from xfce 4.12 will make it?
[19:44] <micahg-work> knome, umm, in theory, but you can see the versions that changed as well
[19:44] <knome> micahg-work, yep :)
[19:44] <knome> jjfrv8, we made our cherry-pick list already
[19:44] <micahg-work> does anyone know if 4.12 has been given any new push towards a final release?
[19:44] <knome> micahg-work, not that i know of
[19:45] <knome> jjfrv8, ...and if 4.12 isn't released on time for T, that's accurate
[19:45] <knome> and it doesn't look very plausible
[19:46] <knome> #subtopic Other things
[19:46] <micahg-work> which will be sad as Jessie will probably have 4.12 and we'll be divergent...
[19:46] <knome> micahg-work, when's the target release date for jessie?
[19:46] <micahg-work> Nov 5 2014 IIRC
[19:47] <micahg-work> wait, that's the freeze
[19:47] <Noskcaj> #info We might be able to re-add pidgin twitter support if https://code.google.com/p/prpltwtr/issues/detail?id=88 get's fixed. there is a bounty worth $5000 dollars (currently) for a fix
[19:47] <micahg-work> Debian doesn't do target release dates, they release when ready
[19:47] <knome> okay
[19:47] <micahg-work> knome, nothing we can do about it, just mentioning it
[19:47] <ochosi> any thoughts on packing 4.11 into 14.04 and then getting 4.12 SRUd or something?
[19:48] <Noskcaj> +1, although not all components
[19:48] <ochosi> (there's actually not so many components missing for that)
[19:48] <micahg-work> ochosi, I'd probably be more comfortable with that in a PPA than in the distro, there's no telling what will change before release unless everything is in bug fix mode only
[19:48] <knome> micahg-work, sure. just good to track that as well
[19:49] <knome> i would be fine with SRUing all of 4.12, as long as developers want to do it
[19:49] <ochosi> micahg-work: i did go through the roadmap recently, feature-wise it's pretty much done
[19:49] <knome> but then again, i'm stepping down after 14.04 release, so you might want to consult somebody else on that :)
[19:49] <micahg-work> I don't think we could pull that off, I'd be ok with backporting 4.12 when it got in though
[19:49] <micahg-work> (assuming we could get the required testing to pass)
[19:50] <elfy> big assumption
[19:50] <ochosi> my guess is that xfce will only change very incrementally until 4.12 now
[19:50] <knome> i can promise i can do more testing after the 14.04 release.
[19:50] <ochosi> as soon as i hear back from nick, i can let you know
[19:51] <knome> #action ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back
[19:51] <meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back
[19:51] <elfy> knome: as much as I thank you - 1 person doesn't do much to the figures I've got :)
[19:51] <knome> elfy, not to the person figures, no ;)
[19:51] <micahg-work> ochosi, ok, let's keep an eye on that, we don't have an SRU microexception for Xfce, so SRUing the whole stack would be a nice trick
[19:51] <ochosi> cool
[19:52] <ochosi> just to give you the infos that i have now:
[19:52] <knome> ochosi, #info please!
[19:52] <knome> :))
[19:52] <ochosi> yeah, well it's nothing official
[19:52] <knome> still..
[19:52] <ochosi> fine...
[19:53] <ochosi> #info ochosi has been working with eric_the_idiot a few of the missing pieces of Xfce4.12 done
[19:53] <ochosi> #info NSchermer said he will try to do more development releases before christmas
[19:54] <ochosi> (that'll most likely include xfwm4)
[19:55] <ochosi> so i'm more hopeful that the release is not so far away
[19:55] <ochosi> (i guess #hope doesn't exist)
[19:55] <knome> :P
[19:55] <knome> not...yet
[19:55] <knome> ask lderan if you want him to implement it
[19:55] <elfy> I'd never stop - probably not a good idea
[19:55] <ochosi> actually, i'd also like to ask those of you who test trusty already to use the shimmer-daily PPA
[19:56] <knome> ochosi, can you be in touch with elfy on that and send a mail to -devel together?
[19:56] <ochosi> please check if everything is fine with using only our icon-theme without gnome-icon-theme
[19:56] <elfy> #info ochosi wants "those of you who test trusty already to use the shimmer-daily PPA"
[19:56] <Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/daily
[19:56] <ochosi> ty guys, you're much better at #this than me :>
[19:57] <elfy> :)
[19:57] <knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
[19:57]  * elfy would like to know what's the status of whiskermenu in our plans
[19:57] <ochosi> #info testing should focus on Gnome3/Gtk3 apps (e.g. evince), checking whether the theming is fine and whether all icons are there
[19:57] <knome> oops :)
[19:57] <knome> go ahead.
[19:57] <elfy> and menulibre
[19:58] <skellat> o/
[19:58] <knome> hey skellat 
[19:58] <elfy> #action elfy to chase bluesabre re menulibre 
[19:58] <meetingology> ACTION: elfy to chase bluesabre re menulibre
[19:58] <ochosi> elfy: we had this vote last time, not sure what we voted on specifically...
[19:58] <skellat> I'm comfortable with us going with whiskermenu.
[19:58] <ochosi> but i'm afraid it involves work for me
[19:59] <ochosi> i think i have to do a panel-layout proposal, iirc
[19:59] <knome> ochosi, haha, good assessment
[19:59] <elfy> ochosi: well I read the logs that diodn't make much sense to me last week
[19:59] <ochosi> :)
[19:59] <ochosi> workfor_ochosi != sense
[19:59] <knome> elfy, waiting for ochosi to propose a new panel layout with whiskermenu.
[19:59] <ochosi> i'll try to get around to it asap
[19:59] <knome> thanks
[19:59] <elfy> I'm just a bit like a cat on a hot roof about these things we keep saying are going to happen and it's half way through december already
[20:00] <ali1234> did anyone try panel-switch? (or whatever i named it)
[20:00] <knome> elfy, things are progressing... slowly but steadily ;)
[20:00] <ochosi> if any of you want to propose a panel-layout, feel free to go ahead or get in touch with me
[20:00] <elfy> if you ask me to set up testing for new things in March I'll be saying No
[20:00] <knome> ali1234, not yet. can you send an email to the list?
[20:00] <knome> or did you?
[20:00] <knome> elfy, yeah, not happening that.
[20:00] <ochosi> panel-switch works fine, as far as i tested it. really nice stuff!
[20:01] <ali1234> i didn't, no
[20:01] <knome> micahg-work, when do you plan landing xfce 4.11 stuff?
[20:01] <ali1234> ochosi: did you see the guy in #xfce-dev today? who said he's working on "activites for xfce"
[20:01]  * knome kicks bluesabre in the back and tells him to get his stuff ready ASAP
[20:01] <skellat>  elfy: Would it be possible to put out an e-mail on getting the indicators SRU verified?
[20:01] <ochosi> ali1234: i did, but i was kinda busy so i didn't chime in
[20:01] <ali1234> maybe we can just get him to make it :)
[20:01] <elfy> #action elfy to set up a new vm and get everyone's new bits in so I've got something to look at
[20:01] <meetingology> ACTION: elfy to set up a new vm and get everyone's new bits in so I've got something to look at
[20:02] <lderan> knome, aye im up for to be asked to do stuff :P
[20:02] <ochosi> ali1234: that would be nice, i just hope he won't overpower it
[20:02] <knome> lderan, i was mostly kidding ;)
[20:02] <elfy> #action - team with new apps to be tested to contact elfy with details
[20:02] <meetingology> ACTION: - team with new apps to be tested to contact elfy with details
[20:02] <ali1234> i never thought about it in this way before, but it's really not such a terrible idea
[20:02] <lderan> knome, :P
[20:02] <ali1234> i have no idea how to make it though, so i'll just stick with the plan
[20:02] <micahg-work> knome, how's the testing going with that stuff, we could probably land it in the next week or so if the testing has been positive
[20:03] <knome> elfy, some time when we've moved, probably after christmas, i'll do a good evaluation of where we are with all stuff
[20:03] <elfy> skellat: I don't see why not - where are the details/info for it? not seen a mail from any list about that SRU at present
[20:03] <elfy> knome: k
[20:03] <knome> ochosi, have you sent instructions to the list about testing the 4.11 components?
[20:03] <ochosi> knome: should i have? i didn't see an #action for that and don't recall i signed up for it (or got it assigned)
[20:04] <ali1234> testing 4.11 currently means building nearly everything
[20:04] <ochosi> what kind of instructions other than "add Xfce4.12 PPA" did you want?
[20:04] <micahg-work> hrm
[20:04] <Unit193> I'd -1 whiskermenu, at least for th{e,is} LTS.
[20:04] <micahg-work> ali1234, we're just doing a few components
[20:04] <ochosi> ali1234: nah, quite a lot is in the xfce4.12 PPA
[20:04] <ochosi> Unit193: why's that?
[20:04] <knome> ochosi, any works, as long as it allows people to test that stuff
[20:05] <micahg-work> did I miss a meeting?
[20:05] <elfy> micahg-work: not that I know of 
[20:05] <micahg-work> I thought we were just pulling in a few components
[20:05] <ochosi> micahg-work: can you copy the existing packages for trusty? https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/xfce-4.12/
[20:06] <ochosi> yeah, i think we are
[20:06] <knome> micahg-work, yes, we are :)
[20:06] <knome> micahg-work, still sticking with what we decided on the meeting back then
[20:06] <micahg-work> ochosi, yeah, give me a minute
[20:06] <ochosi> libxfce4ui, xfdesktop, xfce4-settings (we already have that in 13.10) and possibly xfwm4
[20:07] <ochosi> only libxfce4ui, xfdesktop and xfwm4 will be newer versions than in 13.10 really
[20:07] <ochosi> (we need libxfce4ui anyway for the panel+gtk3indicators)
[20:08] <ochosi> so to summarize: gtk3-indicator-stuff (panel, indicator-plugin, libxfce4ui) and xfdesktop is what we accepted afaik
[20:08] <ochosi> xfwm4 is still up for discussion
[20:08] <knome> has anybody looked into getting xfce4 power manager?
[20:08] <knome> +to work
[20:08] <ochosi> not really, afaik
[20:09] <knome> i guessed so. does anybody want to start looking at that?
[20:09] <ochosi> nick was considering to drop it
[20:09] <knome> aha
[20:09] <ochosi> (just saying)
[20:09] <knome> then we need to look for an alternative
[20:09] <ochosi> replace it with a simple settings dialog for systemd and other upower settings
[20:09] <knome> ideas?
[20:09] <micahg-work> I thought we had an alternative for the power manager, can't remember offhand what it was
[20:09] <ochosi> i don't think we really do
[20:09] <ochosi> i mean we can use the indicator-power
[20:10] <ochosi> but that only shows the battery status
[20:10] <knome> should look for the logs for the meeting where that was discussed
[20:10] <knome> there were several ideas at least, if not considerable alternatives
[20:10] <micahg-work> ochosi, do the saucy packages work on trusty with no rebuild>?
[20:10] <ochosi> micahg-work: i would hope so, but tbh i haven't tried
[20:11] <micahg-work> ochosi, can we get someone to try that first (or I can just rebuild them a bit later)
[20:11] <ochosi> elfy: ^ ?
[20:11] <ochosi> micahg-work: sorry, i don't have a 14.04VM yet..
[20:11] <elfy> skellat: sorry - I see the sound ind SRU stuff now
[20:11] <elfy> ochosi micahg-work - I'm about all day tomorrow - I can look at whatever needs looking at
[20:12] <ochosi> ok nice
[20:12] <Unit193> ochosi: Did you want him to look at xfwm too? :P
[20:12] <ochosi> micahg-work: then just copy it for now, elfy can test it tomorrow and if it doesn't work you can rebuild after tomorrow?
[20:12] <micahg-work> sure, in theory it should work (and it's marked experimental anyways)
[20:13] <ochosi> Unit193: well kinda, but i think we need a release of that anyway... we can't just ship a snapshot
[20:13] <Unit193> ochosi: Of course not.
[20:13] <Noskcaj> ochosi, You missed the new xfce4-settings (4.11.1), which is ready for upload in debian, but needs libxfce4ui 4.11
[20:13] <ochosi> Unit193: but true, wanna #info your PPA for it?
[20:13] <Noskcaj> we only have 4.11.0
[20:13] <micahg-work> copy done, waiting publishing
[20:14] <elfy> ochosi micahg-work - someone write down in word of one syllable what you want/need me to do - I'm still suffering with this trapped nerve and pain killers
[20:14] <ochosi> Noskcaj: i mentioned it, but i thought it's pretty much the same version we have in 13.10
[20:14] <ochosi> Noskcaj: well, point being: we already ship a 4.11 version of that, but not of xfdesktop
[20:14] <Noskcaj> ok
[20:14] <micahg-work> elfy, try the xfce 4.12 PPA on trusty and see if the apps/DE works
[20:15] <elfy> simple as that? 
[20:15] <ochosi> yup
[20:15] <ochosi> ideally use it for a while or so
[20:15] <elfy> see - confused - I thought you were talking about indicators
[20:15] <ochosi> but basically it should either work or not work
[20:16] <ochosi> no, these are just the other xfce4.11 components
[20:16] <micahg-work> no, we need to get moving on the indicator stuff as well though
[20:16] <ochosi> indeed
[20:16] <elfy> ochosi: oh - if that's the case I'll check it in VM then assuming that all seems ok I'll install it to this install I used daily
[20:16] <ochosi> Noskcaj has uploaded it all to one PPA
[20:16] <elfy> someone point me to the right ppa then :)
[20:16] <ochosi> elfy: great! and don't forget to ping micahg-work about it (optionally me as well)
[20:16] <elfy> yep
[20:16] <ochosi> elfy: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/xfce-4.12/
[20:17] <elfy> k
[20:17] <ochosi> micahg-work: all the indicator-stuff is in Noskcaj's PPA now
[20:17] <Noskcaj> and https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/indicator-gtk3 for indicators
[20:17] <ochosi> yup, that ^ :)
[20:17] <ochosi> good timing, Noskcaj 
[20:17] <elfy> ochosi: I'll know quite early tomorrow if it's gone completely wrong - I'll put it in here for longer term
[20:17] <ochosi> elfy: sounds good
[20:17] <elfy> Noskcaj: thanks - got that
[20:18] <ochosi> brb
[20:18] <Noskcaj> It's all upload-able, but there are excess build-deps in the xfce4-indicator-plugin package
[20:19] <micahg-work> I'd like some people to test the indicator stack, if it's good, I'll get it uploaded to trusty
[20:19] <Unit193> I tried it in saucy, dumped it to go back to gtk2 ones.
[20:20] <micahg-work> not a good sign
[20:20] <micahg-work> at least now we don't need it in saucy thanks to ali1234's fix
[20:20] <elfy> yep
[20:21] <Unit193> There weren't any major problems, just the known panel appearance not taking and the icons were bigger and more seperated in my theme, thus I gained nothing and lost a couple things.
[20:21] <knome> if the people who have set up PPA's and such would send emails to -devel for call for testing, everything would be easier
[20:21] <Noskcaj> I've had the indicator stuff for a week now and it's worked fine
[20:22] <knome> and i could run some tests with my little time i can dedicate to such things
[20:22] <elfy> I think that testing the indicators is important at this stage - so as many as we can get 
[20:23] <ochosi> the theming problems Unit193 describes don't exist with our themes
[20:23] <ochosi> but: we need the current git versions of our themes for that
[20:24] <ochosi> so whoever tests indicators at the moment, also use the shimmer PPA please
[20:24] <ochosi> i mean the shimmer daily PPA (the one that was mentioned before)
[20:24] <Unit193> ochosi: Icon size doesn't still?  I think that one was hardcoded?
[20:24] <elfy> #info ochosi said "so whoever tests indicators at the moment, also use the shimmer daily PPA please" 
[20:25] <ochosi> Unit193: well if you have them smaller than 22px at the moment, then yes. right now (and the same is true for ubuntu) their fixed size with 22px
[20:25] <knome> sounds like we got moving with this impromptu section ;)
[20:25] <knome> let's do this more often
[20:25] <elfy> :)
[20:25] <ochosi> indeed
[20:25] <lderan> :)
[20:25] <knome> anything else on anybody's mind?
[20:25] <elfy> nope
[20:26] <knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
[20:26] <knome> any reason not to have a meeting next week at the same time?
[20:26] <elfy> +1 to that
[20:26] <Noskcaj> +1
[20:26] <pleia2> wfm
[20:26] <knome> goodie
[20:26] <knome> #info Next meeting Thu 19 Dec at 19UTC
[20:26] <knome> #endmeeting
[20:26] <knome> ta
[20:26] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Dec 12 20:26:59 2013 UTC.  
[20:26] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-12-12-19.11.moin.txt
[20:26] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-12-12-19.11.html
[20:27] <elfy> thanks knome et al 
[20:27] <pleia2> thanks knome 
[20:27] <micahg-work> thanks knome 
[20:27] <knome> i'll put up the minutes up later today
[20:28] <elfy> #info tea is now cold
[20:28] <lderan> nooooooooooooooooooooooo
[20:29] <Unit193> http://goo.gl/bIpwCa next meeting.
[20:29] <Unit193> #info coffee is very good.
[20:29] <ochosi> ta knome 
[20:29] <knome> minutes are up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[20:30] <knome> pleia2, do we want to social mediaize it?
[20:30] <pleia2> prolly
[20:31] <knome> let me know when you're sure
[20:31] <Noskcaj> micahg-work, While you're around, would you mind giving me a testimony at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj#MOTU
[20:32] <micahg-work> Noskcaj, I need to review your work still
[20:32] <Noskcaj> ok
[23:39] <ochosi> ali1234: can you pull the xubuntu default panel layout to panel-switch's config files?