[00:27] knome, quick question [00:28] does bugs with a fix committed status should be added to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-docs? [00:31] slickymaster, if they are related to the trusty translations cycle, yes, even with that status [00:32] helps us see what was done when we release [00:32] they're not related to the translations, but they are directly related to the docs [00:33] bug 1238718 for instance [00:33] bug 1238718 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Errors in "Chapter 6. Connecting to Internet and Networks" of the Xubuntu Documentation saucy series" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238718 [00:34] or this one, knome: 1243946 [00:34] bug 1243946 [00:34] bug 1243946 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Duplication of the definite article "the" in the penultimate paragraph of the 'Welcome' section on the Index page" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243946 [00:34] slickymaster, yes, they are valid [00:35] I'll add them then [00:35] tks [00:36] np [00:41] I'm off [00:42] cy tomorrow guys [03:54] ali1234: Got "Floating point exception" with xfwm4 scroll zoom. [03:54] Unit193: yeah [03:54] i sent a patch for that to the ml [03:55] it's because you have compositor disabled [03:55] * Unit193 checks. [03:55] Nope. [03:56] then your x server incorrectly reports it's refresh rate; the patch fixes that too [03:56] Likely. Alright, thanks. [03:59] https://github.com/ali1234/xfwm4/commit/ce5f008584302362f6374201432f91e3d950715d [04:00] http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=ce5f008584302362f6374201432f91e3d950715d [04:00] oh, i guess it was pulled [04:00] so you're running with that fix? [04:01] Should be, on the tabwin branch that just got master merged in. [04:01] git20131211.648537c [04:02] well, run it in gdb please [04:03] it happens when you zoom in? [04:04] tabwin branch doesn't have the fix [04:04] Aye. And gdb with xfwm hung, had to switch to a TTY and kill it. [04:04] Oh? [04:05] of yeah xfwm will hang in gdb if you build it with full debug [04:05] i think there is a breakpoint at startup or something [04:05] http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/log/?h=ochosi/tabwin <- no fix [04:05] Anywho, if it's not in, then sorry and I'll shutup. [04:06] i'm surprised yoou hit this bug with compositor enabled to be honest [04:06] not 100% surprised though, that's why i patched both problems :) [04:06] It's crappy graphics, so expected. [04:07] (Kind of why I wanted an option. :P ) [04:07] well, turn off compositing? [04:07] does the zoom patch affect speed for you? [04:07] Nah, I'll just avoid it. [04:07] because it should not [04:07] it should not do anything at all unless you zoom in [04:07] I think it's fine. [04:08] there's a couple of extra if's and that is about it [04:09] (X has been running too long, it's slow anyway at 700MB of ram.) [08:08] ali1234: yeah, haven't pulled your patch/es yet cause I wanted to wait for them to land in master [08:27] well the thing is, they already have [08:28] you've pulled some, but not all of them [08:28] because i had to make a bugfix two days ago [08:39] ali1234: i've only merged what was in master yesterday [08:39] no, you haven't, check again :) [08:39] oh crap [08:39] yeah [08:39] somehow i didnt pull :/ [08:40] ok, done now [08:40] Unit193: just merged the latest master, in case you wanna rebuild your packages [08:42] ali1234: anything else i can help with getting you started on the UI for panel-switch? [08:42] do my christmas shopping for me? [08:42] haha [08:42] and also all the other work i'm supposed to do [08:42] yeah, i guess that would help me too [08:43] i was thinking in terms of whether the mockups i provided so far are sufficient and if you're happy with them [08:43] yes i am happy with it [08:43] i do have one question: what is that icon in the top right? [08:43] k [08:43] a save-as button [08:44] like "save current" [08:44] i think it should be a "+" symbol then, that kinda looks like a download button or somehting [08:44] in fact the icon should be slightly different, but it was close enough for a mockup [08:44] hmwell, that's the save-icon in our icon-theme atm [08:44] you can decide you go for gtk-add instead of gtk-save-as [08:44] yeah, we want the "new" icon [08:45] right, that's gtk-add then [08:45] also, do we really need "apply" [08:46] we could have "close" and "revert" (or "cancel") [08:46] and have it change the layout as soon as you select a new one [08:46] this would also remove the need for screenshots [08:46] yeah, i was thinking about that before [08:46] it's definitely a good approach [08:47] but if you do "live previews" of the panel configs, something like an "apply" button to make clear to the user that his previous config will be gone would make sense to me [08:48] i'm no expert on UI design [08:48] maybe we should go ask the Ubuntu design clinic :P [08:48] haha [08:48] ali1234: you beat me to the punchline :p [08:48] * ochosi feels sick [08:48] :( [08:48] maybe i need to go to the design clinic ^ [08:49] lol [08:49] ali1234: ok, so i guess i'll work on alternative UIs for the panel-switch app then [08:50] without screenshot blah and with a revert or apply button [08:50] ochosi: I could. [08:51] Unit193: if you're packaging, can you also try to enable MONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP from the rules? [08:51] it's not enabled by default, but it's needed to fix the background flickering [08:51] true that [08:51] Well in theory this was tabwin, but could. [08:52] that would be nice [08:52] if you do really nice packaging work on it, maybe we can sneak it into 14.04 [08:52] it's not a configure option either, so you'll need to add -DMONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP to the gcc command [08:52] That's not likely. :P [08:52] "somehow" [08:52] ali1234: Thanks.. :P [08:53] alternatively just patch it in to the source, but i think doing it from the rules is cleaner if possible [08:53] i would add it to configure, but i have absolutely no idea how that stuff works [08:53] me neither unfortunately [08:54] "stop the autoconf insanity" was posted 10 years ago, and it's still true today [09:23] ali1234: What should I see with this one? :) [09:23] with monitor root pixmap? [09:23] Yes. [09:24] Everything seems to be working, but I'd like to confirm before uploadin' [09:24] well... if you restart xfdesktop (assuming you have the latest version) then you should not see grey background while it restarts [09:24] Heh, I do not. :P [09:25] when you log in, you should see wallpaper all the time, never any grey - again you need the very latest gtk-greeter too [09:25] basically you should never see grey [09:25] you can test it is really working by killing xfdesktop repeatedly until it really dies [09:25] and then do "hsetroot -solid \#ff0000" - the background should turn red [09:26] So, sounds like I'll have to setup a vm and compile from git tomorrow, bleh. [09:34] lderan: can you update us on autopilot at tonights meeting [09:35] I'll try and catch ip with DanChapman today [09:35] aye that'll be good [09:49] I think my eyes will start bleeding if I look much longer at this red... [10:08] :) [10:20] Technically I said Bug #1245585 in the wrong channel, but he isn't in here. [10:20] bug 1245585 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "LiveCD: wrong language selected by default on login screen" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1245585 [11:07] morning all [11:08] good morning slickymaster [11:34] elfy hey sorry i've completely borked my system upgrading to trusty just gonna reinstall then I will give you a ping :-) [11:35] ok :) [11:37] ochosi: is this still applicable to xfdesktop: "you can customize your menu by copying ''xfce-applications.menu'' to ''$XDG_CONFIG_HOME/menus''? [11:40] good question [11:40] eric_the_idiot: ^ ? [11:44] kinda? It is because xfdesktop uses garcon but it should also apply to any other app that does as well (the menu plugin, the whisker menu I imagine) [11:48] when i customized my main menu i did not need to copy anything... it just worked [11:48] well, except for the bugs in the menu editor... had to work around those [11:49] i didn't try to customize the xfdesktop menu though, cos i don't use it [11:59] ok, thanks eric_the_idiot and ochosi [12:00] ochosi: I'll keep it in the xfdesktop documentation then [12:15] elfy hey o/ [12:16] hi DanChapman - 2 ticks :) [12:19] knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/Xubuntu_Post_Install/+merge/198724 [12:19] DanChapman: ok - here now :) [12:22] elfy, line 41 hel [12:23] elfy howdy, so i have had a little play with autopilot and the majority of xubuntu default apps, So there are quite a few that can be done with introspection but also the majority of the apps that can't can still be tested using process manager similar to the current firefox test. Has lderan been working on any tests? [12:23] DanChapman: I'm not sure - expecting an update today on that [12:23] hello DanChapman [12:24] DanChapman: so - introspectable = we can get a test to run ? [12:24] been trying to get a test working on the settings manager [12:24] knome: thanks [12:25] also some

's seem to be missing [12:25] possibly I lost the damned script thing to check it [12:25] around line 33, and a in line 31 [12:25] heh [12:25] i can deal with that though [12:26] i'm wondering if it made sense to split those tests again... [12:26] elfy nope introspectable is that we can access the properties of the application so click buttons all that business. Now using process manager which is an older autopilot feature basically gives you a view of the application window it relies heavily on keyboard navigation which needs to be done carefully but even simple loading an application and testing window title and a couple of other keyboard shortcuts are always tests worth having [12:26] elfy, one per test, so 7 tests in total [12:27] knome: not sure what you mean - but frankly I'd rather have 1 test - got more chance of getting testing done then [12:28] elfy, the problem with one test is that if you run the test, but only can run 2 of the optional tests, you have then run 3-4 tests of 7 [12:28] DanChapman: agreed in theory [12:28] elfy, what should you do? mark as passed? [12:28] knome: true [12:28] elfy the apps we can get proper meaty tests for are gthumb, gnumeric, simple scan, transmission, calc and possibly abiword (depending on getting better access to the drawing canvas) and then ther eis also the current FIrefox evince and fileroller tests to add to that list [12:28] elfy, but everything didn't pass, because you didn't test it [12:28] elfy, so we can (and probably will) end up with skewed test results with that [12:29] DanChapman, so the xfce apps are the ones that require the introsepctable? [12:29] elfy, also thinking the monitor test could be just moved to the monitor dialog package test [12:29] knome: frankly I'm getting really cynical about the whole thing - doesn't seem to matter if we have 1 or 1 million tests - hardly anyone bothers doing them anyway [12:29] ;) [12:29] true that [12:29] that's why i thought they might be more worthwhile in the package tests [12:30] but i don't know [12:30] easy enough to do [12:30] other partitions and usb drives seem to be important features [12:30] so at least they sound like good to keep on the post-install test [12:30] I'm happy enough to move away from post install testing and moving the whole shebang to package testing - which is what they really are [12:30] yep [12:31] i would say [12:31] suspend is a bit meh. [12:31] so in effect we move to images testing as JUST that [12:31] and everything post install becomes a package test of some sort [12:32] so at least apart from the partitios/usb drive and suspend test, everything could go to package testing [12:32] we can add a link to the post-install test [12:32] saying [12:32] "this is not part of the test itself, but if you have X, run this package test and report results" [12:33] DanChapman: probably best if you talk to lderan - I'm all at sea wiht it and I handed it over to him :) [12:34] knome: not really following you here I'm afraid [12:34] elfy, just a sec [12:34] are you saying we should have a post install test now? [12:34] kind of... [12:34] wait! :) [12:35] putting kettle on ... [12:35] lderan in theory all Gtk apps 'should' be introspectable, but sadly it would probably end up meaning changes would be needed upstream for it to work. the true xfce like xfce4_screenshooter i had no success getting any of them to launch but I can get them to launch with process manager [12:35] i've been able to get the app to open but then the test just hangs there until i quit the app manually [12:36] what do they actually need to provide? [12:36] lderan process manager offers a limited amout of testable properties see http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/api/process.html#autopilot.process.Application [12:36] and process.Window [12:38] thanks for that DanChapman :D [12:38] does introspection rely on dbus? [12:40] will try that out during the lunch hour to see if i have more success [12:44] ali1234 yes it does, see http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/api/introspection.html?highlight=dbus#autopilot.introspection.dbus [12:45] i don't get it. does that mean every app has to export introspection objects for it's entire gui on dbus? [12:46] Not that i'm aware of, Autopilot creates the objects by polling dbus for the given search criteria [12:46] but if the app isn't on dbus... [12:46] elfy, PoC at http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/254/builds/27971/testcases/1569/results [12:46] is there some documentation that explains this at high level? [12:47] but not so high level as to completely gloss over how it all works [12:47] elfy, some fiddling for the links per cycle will need to be done, but that's minor [12:48] ok that makes sense to me now :) [12:48] we probably want to talk with balloons if he approves this [12:48] but for me, that would be the best solution [12:48] knome: I'll catch him later today [12:49] i've always felt bad when i've marked such test "passed" even if i can't test with all the peripherals [12:49] yea [12:49] I know what you mean by that - I find things with bugs and 'pass' them - because I know this or that [12:49] almost the same ;) [12:49] but this avoids that problem [12:49] but the way the pages are written - any image test will be a fail :p [12:50] :P [12:50] i guess... [12:50] obviously if it's a 'real' fail I don't pass them :) [12:51] but that ^^ deals with us nicely I think [12:52] ali1234, ill just have a look see if I can find any [12:53] yep [12:53] knome: I'll talk to balloons later today and assuming he's got no issues then I'll do it all properly today/tomorrow and get the new tests on the trackers asap [12:59] DanChapman: is the problem that many/most xfce apps are still gtk2? [13:02] ali1234 it should work for both 2/3+, I can't find any docs on a higher level i will prod thomi about it later to find out more [13:03] from what I can see the app needs to be running on either the session or system dbus or custom bus such as on an abstract socket [13:05] ali1234, found something better http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/appendix/protocol.html?highlight=wire [13:10] so that whole interface is somehow made by the gtk library, and the app "shouldn't" have to know about it... [13:10] elfy, the problem is... not all of the tests that we are "linking" to exist.. [13:11] oh [13:11] elfy, and the further problem... [13:12] elfy, we need to link to a specific milestone [13:12] elfy, which is why this testcase would need poking at least once a cycle [13:12] elfy, because the links change every milestone [13:12] yep - I understoof that to be the case [13:12] the other option is to add a feature to the tracker [13:12] to be able to link to a certain testcase [13:13] and show all available milestones for it [13:13] which would be interesting... [13:13] indeed :) [13:14] that's possible, but whether stgraber wants to implement that is a different question [13:14] lol [13:14] i mean ultimately it's just enabling one more view and a simple sql query [13:14] so if not trivial, at least really close [13:14] ok [13:19] knome: so - for the time being do we need the things that have no testcase to be tested - especially as they are all optional? [13:19] can we not - leave the optional part empty of test links for now - and then add them later [13:20] at least then we know we're getting real passes - not vague ones [13:20] we should probably just not mention those tests at all. [13:20] so - raise bugs for missing ones, then when we have them all - add them to the testcase [13:20] yep, or even one by one :) [13:21] or that :) [13:21] sounds like a plan [13:22] ok [13:23] knome: I'll remove the optional tests from that sanbox one then - so I've got an up to date thing to talk to Nick about [13:23] knome: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/testcases/1569/info [13:24] hi GridCube [13:24] hi [13:25] elfy, fixed the dl's [13:25] in what? [13:25] in the link you just sent me [13:25] DanChapman, i am using the code in the firefox test to open up the settings manager, it opens up okay by then the test crashes saying the no window was opened [13:25] knome: oh - ok :) [13:26] knome: so assuming that all is ok with Nick - I will create a new testcase against that, add it to tracker - replace the 2 current post install tests with that single one [13:26] is that right? [13:27] yes... though let's also discuss it in the meeting today before pushing :) [13:27] yep [13:27] I'll add it now [13:27] cheeers [13:27] -e [13:28] ali1234, It would appear autopilot hasn't been built against Gtk2 :-( they should probably take that out of the docs. Apparently it wouldn't be too difficult to support it [13:30] lderan hmmm i've not had that with the process manager before. 2 secs i'll boot up a vm [13:43] lderan can you paste the output your getting seems i can;t boot todays image [13:47] sure [13:51] DanChapman, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6561437/ [13:56] DanChapman: am I right in saying that all of the xubuntu autopilot image tests are failing? [13:58] they are indeed thay aren't even running due to the bug where the user-session isn't set and not being able to get to the live desktop [13:58] ok [13:58] assumed that to be the case [13:58] elfy same for lubuntu as well [14:01] lderan thanks, is it xfsettingsd.desktop for the desktop file? [14:04] xfce-settings-manager.desktop is what i'm using [14:07] ahh ok ill try that [14:10] lderan http://paste.ubuntu.com/6561526/ works for me 'Ran 1 test in 0.475s OK' [14:16] DanChapman, i will try that later after work [14:27] slickymaster, I saw your ping about your work on Usage. xfdesktop is kind of different in that there is no separate Preferences menu selection... [14:27] so that there is unavoidably some overlap between Usage and Prefs [14:28] I think we'll just have to let ochosi weigh in on whether we're getting it right or not [14:28] I still have not gotten around to adding the 4.10 stuff to my section [14:29] ochosi, and I still have one more of your suggestions to address but the rest are implemented [14:49] jjfrv8: nice, thanks! i'll try to review it once it's done [15:03] elfy: ping [15:04] pong [15:06] elfy: the Panel popup added to 1562 testcase card you add on our Trello board [15:07] yea [15:07] juast a sec [15:09] elfy: back again, sorry but was receiving a strange log from a database here at work [15:09] :) [15:10] anyway, what i meant to ask you is does that card refers to bug 1256894 [15:10] bug 1256894 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Hidden panels' popping up missing from testcase" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256894 [15:10] yep [15:10] thought so [15:10] I' already had added a card for that, yesterday [15:10] oh - I see you did one for it in To Do [15:10] yeaps :) [15:11] np [15:11] I put it in doing - as it's in progress [15:11] either that or I'll delete the one in the ToDo [15:11] archived the other one now [15:11] all done :) [15:11] okie dokie [15:12] elfy: just going to edit the card description and add there the LP bug number [15:12] ok [15:15] jjfrv8,, I've noticed that "singularity" about xfdesktop. Let's see what ochosi has to sai abou it [15:15] *about [15:15] slickymaster: sorry, about what exactly? [15:15] you mean usage vs. prefs? [15:16] yeaps, ochosi [15:17] it's probably good to do it like it is in the current docs [15:17] i.e. 4.8/4.10 [15:18] only have brief mention in prefs that certain options exist and mention in a sentence what they do, but link to the usage-page for the full description [15:18] that way the prefs page remains a bit shorter and easier to go through [15:18] but yeah, in general i can also imagine merging the two pages to some extent [15:19] what do you guys think? [15:20] IMO, as they are now, they are a bit redundant [15:20] but there's the desktop menu item to finish [15:20] at least in the Usage section [15:21] but I suspect that it occur again those similarities [15:23] it will ^^ [15:29] ei elfy, he've hit 2,000,000 threads on the forum. Amazing! [15:33] slickymaster, jjfrv8: well i think we oughta find a way to make things less redundant. especially with the 4.8/10 docs coming into the picture as well, those pages will become longer and more difficult to keep an overview on.. [15:41] yes ^^ [15:42] slickymaster: yea [15:43] ochosi, slickymaster, I'll start trimming the prefs page down to the minimum [15:43] jjfrv8: i'd say just copy-paste the stuff over to usage [15:43] things don't have to be written twiice [15:44] at least what's missing or improveable there [15:44] hi PaulW2U [15:44] and remove the existent references to see the prefs section [15:44] hi elfy, just lurking :) [15:45] yep - I see you lurking about :) [15:45] PaulW2U: and thanks for testing and reporting [15:45] jjfrv8, ochosi, I'll wait for the rework jjfrv8 will to and then I'll finish the desktop menu item [15:45] will do ^^ [15:46] np, just getting into it, especially as I do now use Xubuntu amongst other flavours [15:46] it's appreciated :) [15:47] slickymaster: makes sense, thanks! [16:29] knome: balloons is good with those with the post install changes [16:29] okay [16:30] let's go over them in the meeting and then proceed [16:30] yep [16:30] * elfy has a list of #info's for the meeting today [16:31] cool [16:41] elfy: You've got a +1 from me for Alpha 1 participation. I've got a medical appointment in 80 minutes and won't be able to make it to meeting. [16:41] skellat: ok [16:59] knome: might not be able to make the meeting as i'll be on my way home then [16:59] no significant updates from my side anyway though [17:00] heh, ok [17:03] when is the meeting? [17:04] 19:00 UTC lderan [17:04] thanks [17:07] !time [17:07] Information about using and setting your computer's clock on Ubuntu can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuTime - See https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/C/NTP.html for information on usage of the Network Time Protocol (NTP) [17:08] ha, thats not the same factoid that if you do /msg ubottu time [17:20] that bot is crazy :P [17:21] !q ubottu [17:21] eh [17:22] GridCube, it is not. === yofel_ is now known as yofel [18:06] ochosi: if I set the background color of the gtk3 indicator menu to "transparent" (xfce.css), the background of the text and all images will be consistent and the play button of the sound indicator will have the subtle glow [18:06] brainwash: it's a known issue that'll hopefully be fixed [18:07] mmh ok [18:07] one downside of mixing gtk2+3 [18:07] and I noticed that after resuming from hibernation lightdm gtk greeter displayed the "login" button instead of the "unlock" one [18:07] hibernation? [18:08] i thought that's disabled by default [18:08] or even: not easy to enable [18:08] should be the same for suspend (not supported by my mainboard/hdd) [18:08] i suppose it's a lightdm issue, the greeter only reacts to the hints it gets [18:09] so I cannot test suspend [18:09] not sure, hibernate isn't officially supported by ubuntu afaik [18:09] i can try to test that later [18:09] but it used to work fine [18:09] gotta go [18:09] bbl [18:09] but it's about the mechanic [18:09] the session is locked [18:10] so the "unlock" button should appear [18:20] knome: Saucy is no longer the topic, I don't think we care about the release schedule of it. :P === knome changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ [18:21] Unit193, yep. [18:21] Danke. [19:02] let's start the meeting in a few mins, i need to set up a temp office [19:03] ok [19:04] kettle time then [19:04] Was thinking coffee, yeah. [19:11] mmkay [19:11] #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting [19:11] Meeting started Thu Dec 12 19:11:12 2013 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [19:11] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [19:11] Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [19:11]