[01:46] <Unit193> ali1234: New xfwm fixed the crashing and zoom works now.
[01:46] <Unit193> Also, xfdesktop is up in ppa too.
[02:08] <bluesabre> knome, forestpiskie: sent a mail to -devel with the current status on everything from me
[02:31] <Unit193> Actually, zoom works on both that were crashing now.
[02:32] <bluesabre> pretty awesome zooming, thanks ali1234
[02:32] <Unit193> I'd still like an option to disable it though, zoomed takes a bit on here when I move.
[07:45] <elfy> ochosi: so - installing the 4.12 you have to have the 4.10 ppa as well? or is that just for pre trusty?
[08:29] <elfy> ochosi micahg - no apparent 'oh noes' going on that I can see with those ppa's - including jackson's
[08:41] <elfy> ochosi: added the 4.12/shimmer/gtk3 ind ppa's to this machine - all seems ok - but ABout Xfce is saying 4.10
[08:44] <elfy> http://imagebin.org/282082
[08:44] <elfy> notice - odd time in the indicator - I quite like the idea of a clock with only an hour hand - others might not :)
[08:47] <ali1234> is that indicator datetime?
[08:48] <ali1234> that should never happen...
[08:49] <elfy> ali1234: I assume that it is - and should never happen didn't get installed here I guess :)
[09:15] <elfy> Noskcaj: just so you know - I've got the ppa's all installed here fine :)
[09:17] <elfy> brainwash: can kind of confirm that abiword ruler issue - though as soon as you attempt to resize it then ruler then appears
[09:29] <elfy> ochosi ali1234 - does this make sense to you - if it does I'll call for testing 
[09:29] <elfy> http://pastebin.com/74VWcEK5
[09:31] <ali1234> depends what you are trying to test
[09:31] <elfy> the gtk3 inds and whatever ochosi wanted people to be using the shimmer and xfce 4.12 ppa's for 
[09:32] <elfy> as discussed in meeting yesterday
[09:32] <ali1234> well, the indicator upstart stuff is still broken, but other than that...
[09:37] <elfy> which is giving what results? 
[09:37] <elfy> I've not been in any fit state to follow much of late
[09:38] <ali1234> indicators will randomly fail to load up
[09:38] <elfy> ok - thanks ali1234 
[09:39] <elfy> ali1234: like the sound one was doing in saucy from time to time I assume - so a panel restart gets them back?
[09:39] <ali1234> no, that was a different bug
[09:39] <ali1234> restarting the panel won't help
[09:39] <ali1234> it might even make more of them disappear
[09:39] <elfy> ok - thanks 
[09:39] <elfy> is there a bug number for that?
[09:39] <ali1234> the workaround is to put INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes in /etc/environment
[09:40] <ali1234> only https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-network/+bug/1185565
[09:40] <ali1234> it discusses some of the problems
[09:40] <elfy> ok thanks - will ahve a look a bit later 
[09:41] <ali1234> that bug should be retitled "tedg broke indicators for everybody"
[09:41] <elfy> lol
[09:42] <elfy> but as far as putting INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes - would that not mean that those testing it wouldn't see a fix unless they remembered to remove it - assuming so
[09:42] <ali1234> well yeah
[09:43] <ali1234> but it's like i always say - we know exactly what is broken and why. we need someone to fix it, more testing reports won't help
[09:43] <elfy> you'll have to excuse me needing things in word of one syllable at the moment I'm afraid 
[09:43] <elfy> and yea - once people know - there's no need for report after report after report :)
[09:44] <ali1234> basically this isn't even a bug
[09:44] <ali1234> it's just a natural result of the massive code changes being incomplete
[09:44] <ali1234> if you look on that bug ^ you'll see it involes about 20 different merge requests
[09:44] <elfy> right - I can understand that 
[09:45] <elfy> indeed - I was just looking :p
[09:45] <ali1234> (including one from me which fixes this specific problem)
[09:45] <elfy> the timeout one 
[09:45] <ali1234> right
[09:46] <elfy> I'll sort out a wiki page a bit later today for people to 'oh no' at 
[09:46] <elfy> then try and get eyes on it for us
[09:47] <ali1234> this is why, ideally, it would be a lot more useful if people were testing branches/upstream
[09:47] <ali1234> for me anyway
[09:47] <elfy> I can see that - but we have a hard enough job getting people to test here let alone upstream
[09:47] <elfy> abysmal if you ask me 
[09:48] <elfy> right - bbl
[10:21] <ochosi> elfy: hey, good to hear that all about works in trusty
[10:21] <ochosi> only restarting the panel might not suffice, as ali1234 has mentioned
[10:22] <ochosi> i'd rather restart the whole session, as the other updated components (xfwm, xfdesktop) also need to be restarted after the upgrade
[10:22] <ochosi> and mentioning the indicator-upstart-bug as currently known issue is certainly good (incl. bugreport-link)
[10:22] <ochosi> so if you put all that on a wiki-page, that's certainly useful
[10:23] <ochosi> you can use the gtk3indicators-page i created for trusty and kick out all the build instructions and replace them with the three PPAs
[10:23] <ochosi> hey gottcode 
[10:24] <gottcode> ochosi: hey
[10:24] <ochosi> i wasn't sure whether whiskermenu also uses garcon
[10:24] <gottcode> it does
[10:24] <ochosi> but if so, i guess it'll be hard to show the settings apps
[10:24] <gottcode> yup, your menu file excludes them
[10:24] <ochosi> we'll have to rethink that if we use whiskermenu by default
[10:25] <gottcode> definitely something to consider
[10:25] <ochosi> i assume you can't set a menu-file for whiskermenu separately?
[10:26] <gottcode> it doesn't support that right now, but it could be added
[10:26] <gottcode> at the moment it just uses whatever is the default menu-file for your environment
[10:31] <ochosi> mhm
[10:31] <ochosi> well it could be useful for xubuntu at least, because then we could provide a whiskermenu-menufile which would contain everything
[10:32] <ochosi> (cause it handles the overflow stuff much nicer than the old menu)
[10:32] <ochosi> and keep the other menu-file for the appmenu
[10:32] <gottcode> that does make sense
[10:32] <ochosi> so ppl can still get the old behavior back if the want
[10:32] <ochosi> (and having all the settings apps there in a submenu really sucks)
[10:33] <gottcode> true
[10:33] <ochosi> do you want me to close that issue and open a new one?
[10:33] <gottcode> if you don't mind
[10:33] <gottcode> I prefer to keep issues as single-topic as possible
[10:33] <ochosi> sure, np
[10:34] <ochosi> yeah, i understand, i hate it when we get bugreports that later get hi-jacked for other stuff
[10:41] <gottcode> is there a way to set default settings for the regular appmenu?
[10:44] <ochosi> i'm not sure
[10:44] <ochosi> i think all the config is stored in the panel-xml
[10:44] <ochosi> but you're right, that also might be worth investigating
[10:45] <ochosi> then you don't have to fix/add anything in whiskermenu
[10:45] <gottcode> exactly
[10:49] <gottcode> I am willing to add custom menu-file support to whiskermenu, but it would be a hidden setting in 1.3 as right now it is in string freeze
[10:53] <ochosi> sounds good
[10:54] <gottcode> also in 1.3 is support for default settings, so if a user removes whiskermenu and adds it back they get your defaults
[10:54] <gottcode> which means they would get your custom menu-file for every instance of whiskermenu
[10:56] <ochosi> hm
[10:56] <ochosi> that doesn't sounds ideal
[10:56] <gottcode> you only want the first instance to do that?
[10:57] <ochosi> although the custom menu file would simply try to include all desktop files
[10:57] <ochosi> so it'd be actually good
[10:57] <ochosi> nah, i'm just thinking that (theoretically) it's hard for ppl to switch to another menu-file
[10:57] <ochosi> but it's not very problematic
[10:57] <gottcode> yeah, that's true
[10:57] <gottcode> but the only reason to use a different menu-file is usually to have a different selection
[10:58] <gottcode> which make search not as useful
[10:58] <ochosi> yeah
[10:58] <ochosi> i think we should strive to empower the search as much as we can
[10:59] <gottcode> it is the part I find most useful :)
[10:59] <ochosi> i'll give it a testrun to see how it looks when i use the xfce-menu-file
[10:59] <gottcode> ok
[11:00] <ochosi> hm
[11:00] <gottcode> ?
[11:00] <ochosi> so changing the menu-file for the applications-menu-plugin doesn't change the default i guess
[11:00] <gottcode> just for that instance of the appmenu, I think
[11:00] <gottcode> you can have multiple instances
[11:01] <ochosi> yeah, which we will probably provide when panel-switch is ready (to give a quick way to switch to a gnome2 layout)
[11:02] <gottcode> makes sense
[11:02] <ali1234> right, that's how i made the settings menu
[11:05] <gottcode> bbl
[11:06] <ochosi> sure, thanks gottcode 
[11:08] <slickymaster> morning all
[11:08] <ochosi> morning
[11:09] <slickymaster> hi ochosi 
[11:31] <elfy> ochosi: ok - I'll fiddle with that wiki page then
[11:35] <elfy> ochosi: <ochosi> i'd rather restart the whole session, as the other updated components (xfwm, xfdesktop) also need to be restarted after the upgrade - just reboot? 
[11:38] <ochosi> elfy: yeah, you can also reboot
[11:38] <ochosi> or logout > login
[11:42] <elfy> I'll go for logout/in :)
[11:43] <elfy> what about bugs - if people get indicators failing - do we actually want them to spam LP with bugs? or shall I specify mailing the dev list rather?
[11:44] <elfy> or maybe add a "If you note bugs that are NOT Listed below, please report them as normal" in the Known Issues bit
[11:44] <ochosi> no, no need to confirm the failing indicators for now
[11:44] <ochosi> yeah
[11:44] <brainwash> create a bug report beforehand?
[11:44] <ochosi> there is a bugreport for the indicators failing i think
[11:44] <elfy> there isd
[11:44] <elfy> is
[11:45] <elfy> ochosi: so - dev list ?
[11:45] <brainwash> so we can mark them as duplicates :D
[11:45] <elfy> brainwash: yea - but it's just work for people and spams people's inbox's 
[11:45] <elfy> see 1208204 for how much of a pita it is
[11:46] <elfy> ochosi: probably best to do something like If you note bugs that are NOT Listed below, please report them as normal" 
[11:46] <ochosi> yeah
[11:46] <ochosi> sounds good to me
[11:46] <brainwash> btw does the smooth background transition work for you? I assume all the changes are now included in the 4.12 ppa
[11:47] <elfy> if you mean do I not get the grey background - then not it's not working here :)
[11:47] <ochosi> no, aren't included
[11:47] <slickymaster> brainwash: not so smoothly in my Suacy box with 4.12 PPA
[11:47] <brainwash> ok
[11:47] <ochosi> xfwm4 is still built without the root-pixmap thingy and xfdesktop is also too old
[11:47] <slickymaster> I still get it also
[11:48] <ochosi> Unit193 has an updated PPA with that, but it doesn't work so i assume there are some packaging issues
[11:48] <brainwash> ochosi: and don't forget the greeter =S
[11:48] <ochosi> brainwash: for that there's a daily PPA and we'll be doing a dev-release soon
[11:48] <brainwash> great
[11:48] <ochosi> so no need to worry about that one
[11:48] <brainwash> really feels like we should push all the changes now
[11:49] <brainwash> to have some more time for testing
[11:50] <elfy> we really need to ensure that PPA's that people want looking at get pushed to the mailing list
[11:50] <elfy> I have absolutely no idea at all what's been going on for a week or more
[11:51] <elfy> ochosi: ok - done https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators
[11:51] <elfy> if you could/or someone else give it a onceover I'll push it to the mailing list for people and on the forum as well
[11:52] <elfy> and I'll spam xubuntu-testers with it as well ;)
[11:52] <ochosi> thanks elfy 
[11:53] <elfy> on a minor note - that will help me get my head around this - why does About XFCE in the menu still say 4.10 though? is it because it is 4.10 with some bits and pieces from 4.11/4.12
[11:53] <ochosi> i guess the about dialog wasn't updated
[11:53] <ochosi> we can consider doing that, but much of the system is still 4.10
[11:54] <elfy> ochosi: ok - and sorry - one last thing - did you see my screenshot ^^ of the dodgy time indicator?
[11:54] <slickymaster> elfy ochosi https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators seems ok
[11:54] <ochosi> elfy: i did, what about it exactly?
[11:55] <elfy> well - I assume it's not supposed to look like that 
[11:55] <ochosi> no, it doesn't here
[11:55] <ochosi> but i'm on saucy
[11:55] <elfy> mmm - all trsuty here
[11:55] <ochosi> there are a few indicator-issues within ubuntu as well, as ali1234 mentioned
[11:55] <ochosi> so i think we might have to wait a bit for the dust to settle in that respect
[11:56] <elfy> ok 
[11:56] <elfy> right - I'll get the call out now then 
[11:56] <ochosi> thanks
[11:56] <ochosi> and feel free to mention the workaround in the known issues section directly
[11:57] <ochosi> so ppl don't have to dig through the bugreport
[11:57] <elfy> the INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes one?
[11:57] <elfy> if so ali1234 had put that there I believe - it's on the page already when I looked
[11:58] <ali1234> yes i added a couple of notes yesterday
[11:58] <ali1234> in the "known issues" section
[11:58] <ochosi> oh
[11:58] <ochosi> sorry, overlooked that then
[11:58] <elfy> niceto see that the add new items is a bit more populated now :)
[11:59] <ochosi> bbl
[12:12] <elfy> ok - forum/discourse/LP/mailing list all spammed with it 
[12:27] <brainwash> elfy: should the known issue be listed too? occasionally missing indicators and sound indicator icon
[12:28] <brainwash> known issues
[12:29] <brainwash> on top of that, people might use other themes than greybird and notice some visual glitches
[12:29] <brainwash> oh, my bad
[12:30] <brainwash> add it to the wiki page then :D
[12:34] <elfy> if you could 
[12:34] <elfy> :)
[12:34] <elfy> but I'd guess we'd want to know about visual glitches when not using greybird - or at the least glitches when using default themese
[12:35] <brainwash> can you confirm the missing sound indicator icon?
[12:35] <brainwash> happens not all the time
[12:36] <elfy> not at the moment I can't - I've not had that go awol since I started usingtrusty daily
[12:36] <elfy> but I will confirm it when and if I see it :)
[12:36] <elfy> but I tend to reboot once a day
[12:36] <brainwash> well, you just installed the gtk3 indicator stuff some hours ago, or? :)
[12:37] <elfy> well I had them anyway - just from git 
[12:38] <brainwash> just noticed, that we got two wiki pages for this
[12:38] <brainwash> saucy and trusty
[12:38] <elfy> yea
[12:38] <knome> yes, the saucy should be historical
[12:39] <brainwash> bug 1238997 still points to the saucy one
[12:39] <knome> i don't see that
[12:39] <knome> O:)
[12:40] <elfy> knome: just going to do the merge proposal for the new post install test, shall I ping you to get it approved? 
[12:40] <elfy> then I'll deal with the tracker as well
[12:40] <elfy> assuming we want to go ahead with that no
[12:40] <elfy> w
[12:40] <knome> you can ping me to get it approved and merged
[12:40] <elfy> ok
[12:47] <elfy> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/Xubuntu_Post_Install/+merge/198932
[12:53] <knome> elfy, merged and added to the tracker; go link it
[13:12] <elfy> knome: found my way thought the labyrinth of tracker admin and disabled the 2 previous and added the new one :)
[13:12] <knome> nice
[15:29] <elfy> ochosi: so this odd then - xchat just decided as I moved the mouse to do this to xchat window http://imagebin.org/282133
[15:55] <ochosi> elfy: does that only affect xchat?
[15:55] <elfy> yea - seemingly 
[15:55] <ochosi> is it a gtk3 app?
[15:56] <elfy> I'm not sure tbh - I don't think it is
[15:56] <elfy> but - why it changed when I moved the mouse I've no idea
[15:56] <ochosi> so all the other apps look fine?
[15:56] <elfy> yep :)
[15:57] <elfy> at least those I've looked at are - I've not opened everything up :)
[15:58] <ochosi> ideally check the logs of xfsettingsd
[15:58] <ochosi> can you also just open another gtk3 app?
[15:58] <ochosi> e.g. software sources
[15:58] <ochosi> sry, ig2g
[15:58] <elfy> just did - looks fine 
[15:58] <ochosi> bbiab
[15:58] <elfy> yep - cya later
[16:22] <slickymaster> elfy, ping
[16:23] <slickymaster> elfy: nevermind, don't pong back :P
[16:24] <slickymaster> knome:  ping
[16:27] <knome> slickymaster, pong
[16:27] <slickymaster> knome: regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1256894
[16:28] <slickymaster> there's already this  <dt>Tick the 'Automatically show and hide the panel' option under the "General" section</dt> <dd>The panel should automatically hide if the mouse is not hovering over it</dd> in the existent test
[16:29] <knome> does it also check if it pops up?
[16:29] <slickymaster> kus a sec
[16:29] <knome> if yes, mark the bug invalid; if not, add that and do a MP :)
[16:29] <slickymaster> just^^
[16:29] <knome> bbiab
[16:30] <slickymaster> no there isn't, I'll add it and do a MP
[17:50] <elfy> ochosi: seems that at the same time as ^^ happening I also lost it from the panel 
[17:50] <elfy> just fyi
[17:51] <ochosi> elfy: could you start it from the terminal and then check whether you get any suspicious output when you reproduce it?
[17:53] <elfy> from tomorrow I'l run it from a terminal until I see the same thing again 
[17:54] <ochosi> ok thanks!
[17:58] <elfy> ok - all set to go :)
[18:24] <test___> test
[18:24] <ochosi> ali1234: when you did the xfwm4 research lately wrt the window-type-hints and all, do you recall anything that would explain why dialogs (that cannot be maximized) have a maximize button in xfwm4?
[18:24] <ochosi> i.e. this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1177116
[18:25] <ali1234> no, but i could look at it sometime
[18:25] <ochosi> i never noticed it before, but even e.g. file-delete dialogs in thunar have a maximize button
[18:25] <ochosi> and they clearly shouldn't have one
[18:25] <ochosi> kinda odd
[18:26] <ochosi> ok, well if you dig into that mess again, it'd be nice if you could keep your eyes open for that one
[18:31] <ali1234> i'm probably not going to get anything more done until after christmas
[18:35] <Unit193> ochosi: Could be, but blues compiled from source and got the same result.
[18:47] <pleia2> elfy elfy elfy 
[18:47] <pleia2> elfy: can you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators to tell uses what they need to use?
[18:47] <pleia2> Saucy, Trusty daily
[18:48] <pleia2> people on the social medias are asking
[18:59] <elfy> pleia2: mmm - well surprisingly as I sent it to testers and the dev mailing list - I didn't think I need to say that - especially given the url :)
[19:01] <elfy> though at least we'll get people saying they can't install the daily properly given it's issues
[19:02] <pleia2> :)
[19:02] <pleia2> I assume nothing
[19:03] <pleia2> perfect, thank you
[19:03] <elfy> no wonder we never get any testing if people in -dev and -testers need to be told which thing we're actually testing for 6 months of the year ... 
[19:03] <pleia2> lol
[19:03] <pleia2> well PPAs confuse people
[19:04] <elfy> lol
[19:04] <pleia2> could be we are trying to get gtk3 working on saucy too!
[19:04] <elfy> there are instructions for that too - saucy is in the url ;)
[19:05] <pleia2> probably my fault for sending it to social media, these people are all the newbie crowd for testing ;)
[19:05] <elfy> pleia2: I'll not stop you doing that :)
[19:05] <pleia2> hehe
[19:06] <elfy> wandering off again
[19:06] <pleia2> see you
[19:23] <ochosi> Unit193: weird, i thought that brainwash and ali1234 got it working for them...
[19:23] <ochosi> (the flicker-free login transition)
[19:24] <ali1234> you need xfwm4 built with special options, xfdesktop from upstream, and gtk-greeter from upstream
[19:24] <Unit193> Got the context, no idea but in theory it should.
[19:25] <Unit193> -DMONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP, right: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/159611368/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.xfwm4_4.11.0~0.tabwin.git20131212.edf7ad4-1~13.10.1_UPLOADING.txt.gz
[19:27] <ali1234> ok, what about xfdesktop?
[19:27] <ali1234> and gtk-greeter?
[19:27] <ali1234> you need git master, not any release
[19:28] <Unit193> gtk-greeter you get from daily, xfdesktop is git master, commit f12aa43 to be exact.
[19:29] <ali1234> ok, where do you see flicker?
[19:29] <Unit193> ochosi: ^
[19:29] <Unit193> "Login"
[19:29] <ali1234> at what stage?
[19:30] <ali1234> and what is the precise nature of it?
[19:32] <Unit193> OK, so lightdm "panels" go away, I still see the background, then something set it black for a moment as the xfce4-panels showed up at the exact same time.
[19:34] <ochosi> sry, g2g, bbiab
[19:37] <brainwash> black? now we got grey (xfwm4), white (xfdesktop) and black (?)
[19:52] <ali1234> black is something totally new
[19:52] <ali1234> quite possibly your x server
[19:52] <Unit193> Alright.  Virtualbox test it was.
[21:45] <ochosi> brainwash: didn't you say the greeter had some problems after hibernation?
[21:45] <ochosi> or someone said that
[21:45] <ochosi> i just tried suspend, and that went fine
[21:46] <ochosi> meaning: the greeter displayed "unlock" as intended (not "log in" as reported). tested on saucy though
[21:46] <ochosi> but that means it's not unlikely that lightdm is the culprit
[22:01] <brainwash> ochosi: yeah, I noticed it yesterday (trusty)
[22:02] <brainwash> I will try to reproduce it
[22:07] <ochosi> ok, thanks
[22:08] <Noskcaj> Why in all the status.ubuntu.com stuff am i noskcaj rather than jackson doak?
[22:08] <Noskcaj> I just thought the latter would make more sense
[22:09] <knome> Noskcaj, you don't have a personal "page" on s.u.c, so you are referred to by your LP nick
[22:09] <Noskcaj> ok
[22:09] <knome> Noskcaj, i have asked the site developers to consider getting *at least* the real names for everybody (even those with no personal pages)
[22:10] <Noskcaj> how do i get a personal page?
[22:11] <knome> i don't know the process to that
[22:11] <knome> i guess just ask the right people and have enough work items to warrant one
[22:14] <pleia2> hm, odd, if you have your name on things on status.u.c you should be listed on http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/people.html
[22:14] <knome> pleia2, yes, sorted by launchpad nick
[22:14] <knome> pleia2, you are there!
[22:15] <pleia2> but Noskcaj is not?
[22:15] <knome> he doesn't have a name.
[22:15] <knome> err, in s.u.c. ;)
[22:15] <pleia2> I mean, having a "personal page" should be automatic if you have work items listed on suc
[22:16] <pleia2> shouldn't have to ask anyone
[22:16] <knome> no...
[22:16] <knome> that's not how it goes
[22:16] <pleia2> huh
[22:16] <knome> there's some fishy stuff
[22:16] <pleia2> I wonder how I got one :)
[22:16] <knome> not all have userpages
[22:16] <pleia2> I always assumed it was automatic
[22:16]  * knome shrughs
[22:16] <knome> nope, that would have been too hard on the server
[22:16] <knome> i'm told
[22:16] <pleia2> sad
[22:17] <pleia2> they should use the cloud!
[22:17] <knome> there's lot to say about what the IS could do better
[22:17] <ochosi> knome, pleia2: quick question while you're around: what date do we wanna set as deadline for contributions to the wallpaper-contest?
[22:18] <knome> ochosi, didn't i answer you about that already?
[22:18] <ochosi> yeah, but we didn't discuss it with pleia2 
[22:18] <ochosi> and we didn't write anything down
[22:18] <knome> i can't remember the answer, but iirc it was "end of january"
[22:18] <ochosi> so consequently i don't remember the exact date
[22:18] <knome> then why are you pinging me ;]
[22:18] <pleia2> hehe
[22:18] <ochosi> because i'd prefer if we would write something down
[22:18] <pleia2> after holidays, no preference other than that
[22:18] <ochosi> and also make it public
[22:19]  * knome writes "something" on a paper
[22:19] <pleia2> and knome loses the paper in the move
[22:19] <knome> hah!
[22:19] <pleia2> we will never remember something now
[22:19] <knome> dare me :)
[22:19] <knome> i never forget anything
[22:19] <knome> except my keys the last time
[22:19] <pleia2> end of january seems fine
[22:19] <knome> but that's not information!
[22:20] <knome> there was even a justification for that
[22:20] <pleia2> it's a kind of information
[22:20] <ochosi> yeah, the freezes
[22:20] <ochosi> we wanted a month before "some freeze" or something
[22:20] <knome> yep
[22:20] <ochosi> so to have enough time to get things packaged and uploaded
[22:20] <knome> month before b1
[22:20] <knome> that was it
[22:20] <ochosi> good
[22:20] <knome> so we have the wallpapers in b1
[22:20] <knome> hopefully
[22:20] <knome> latest in b2
[22:20] <ochosi> so shall we also set a date for our voting?
[22:21] <pleia2> so January 27th
[22:21] <pleia2> knome: make it so, number 1
[22:21] <ochosi> an artwork meeting or something
[22:21] <ochosi> i'm not sure i have access to that google calendar thingy, but if someone could add it there so we don't forget, that'd be nice
[22:21] <knome> ochosi, pleia2: what about jan 29?
[22:21] <pleia2> knome: trouble maker
[22:22] <pleia2> all the same to me
[22:22] <ochosi> should work
[22:22] <ochosi> and should be better than 27 for me
[22:22] <pleia2> ok, I'll put 29 on calendar
[22:22] <ochosi> great, thanks
[22:23] <knome> pleia2, i meant the meeting
[22:23] <knome> but whatever ;)
[22:24] <knome> my connection just bumped
[22:24] <knome> jan 30 would be thursday
[22:24] <knome> which is our regular meeting day
[22:24] <ochosi> so you'd prefer that?
[22:24] <knome> i thought deadline on monday 27 and meeting on wednesday 29 would have been the best
[22:25] <knome> then we could have announced the results on meeting on thursday 30
[22:25] <knome> the deadline can also be sunday 26 if you think you have to be around then
[22:28] <pleia2> knome: oh, hah
[22:30] <ochosi> ok, sounds fine to me
[22:30] <pleia2> there, close on 27th
[22:30] <ochosi> so deadline 27th and vote 29th
[22:30] <knome> yep.
[22:31] <pleia2> vote at meeting?
[22:31] <knome> meeting is 30
[22:31] <knome> let's have another meeting just for this
[22:31] <knome> basically we only need me and ochosi 
[22:31] <pleia2> ooohhhh kay
[22:31] <knome> because art team + XPL
[22:31] <pleia2> what time?
[22:31] <knome> ochosi, 19utc works for you?
[22:32] <knome> or 17, 18
[22:32] <ochosi> i think we should be all three of us for the vote
[22:33] <knome> argument please
[22:33] <pleia2> because I am hella cool
[22:33] <ochosi> 1) i value pleia2's opinion
[22:33] <knome> (i don't have anything against pleia2 being there and voting, but to be transparent)
[22:33] <ochosi> 2) three is easier because there's a tie-breaker
[22:33] <knome> XPL is the ultimate tie-breaker ;)
[22:33] <pleia2> I can play tie breaker if you need one
[22:33] <pleia2> lol
[22:33] <ochosi> hehe
[22:33] <pleia2> king knome
[22:33] <knome> i was thinking 3) she's the marketing lead
[22:34] <ochosi> sounds like king-kong
[22:34] <ochosi> knome: yeah, i thought 2 were enough, but i guess we can find more reasons
[22:34] <pleia2> knome isn't as hairy
[22:34] <knome> i'm fine with that
[22:34] <ochosi> 4) more gender balanced voting team
[22:34] <knome> pleia2, hah :)
[22:34] <knome> ochosi, that's a good point.
[22:35] <knome> so there's 2 of us ladies and you ochosi then
[22:35] <knome> wait...
[22:35] <pleia2> imma vote for all the pink ones
[22:35] <ochosi> awesome
[22:35] <knome> haha
[22:35] <Noskcaj> lol
[22:35] <knome> i wonder if there is many
[22:35] <ochosi> if we could submit anonymously, i'd submit a unicorn with rainbows
[22:35] <ochosi> but if i submit it as me and then vote it in, it looks bad
[22:35] <knome> sourced from the place where the sun doesn't shine?
[22:35] <knome> if that, i can upvote it.
[22:36] <Noskcaj> I'll do that under one of my brothers' names if you wany
[22:36] <Noskcaj> *want
[22:36] <Noskcaj> stupid keyboard
[22:36] <knome> tell me what's a good "contribute" icon?
[22:37] <knome> ochosi, applications-development?
[22:37] <Noskcaj> knome on an uncle sam poster?
[22:37] <ochosi> hehe
[22:37] <ochosi> knome: contribute icon for where?
[22:37] <knome> Noskcaj, put that in a 24x24 icon...
[22:37] <knome> ochosi, generally.
[22:37] <knome> ochosi, in a wiki, where context *is* available
[22:38] <ochosi> knome: as applications-development, many us a dipper
[22:38] <ochosi> use
[22:38] <knome> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Cinclus_cinclus_R%28ThKraft%29.jpg ?
[22:38] <knome> weird. :)
[22:38] <ochosi> brownbird?
[22:38] <knome> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipper
[22:39] <knome> maybe i'll use a "communication" icon
[22:40] <ochosi> weird
[22:40] <ochosi> i meant a masonry trowel
[22:40] <ochosi> seemingly some refer to that as dipper
[22:40] <knome> heh, yeah
[22:40] <knome> that's what humanity has
[22:47] <knome> so shall we pick 19utc as the meeting time for jan 29?
[22:48] <ochosi> sounds fine to me
[22:48] <ochosi> it's kinda dinner time, but it won't take too long i hope
[22:54] <Noskcaj> Could any of you give me a testimonial for MOTU/xubuntu-packageset? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj#MOTU
[22:57] <knome> Noskcaj, i don't know enough to write such, sorry
[23:06] <ochosi> Noskcaj: i'd love to, but i don't have a clue about packaging, so my testimonial would be worthless
[23:08] <Noskcaj> just say that i help xubuntu or something
[23:08] <ochosi> can do that
[23:09] <ochosi> in the membership or the motu section?
[23:10] <Noskcaj> I've just added a separate category for xubuntu packageset
[23:15] <ochosi> Noskcaj: done
[23:15] <Noskcaj> thanks ochosi 
[23:15] <ochosi> np
[23:15] <ochosi> let us know how it goes!
[23:15] <ochosi> i'm keeping my fingers crossed for you
[23:15] <ochosi> (metaphorically, need them too much for typing)
[23:16] <Noskcaj> It will be another month at least since the 19UTC meeting got canceled for this month
[23:16] <Noskcaj> and 15UTC is 2am
[23:16] <ochosi> ok
[23:16] <ochosi> yeah, that's kinda late-ish
[23:16] <Noskcaj> ;)
[23:19] <ochosi> bbiab
[23:20] <Unit193> Really?