[01:46] ali1234: New xfwm fixed the crashing and zoom works now. [01:46] Also, xfdesktop is up in ppa too. [02:08] knome, forestpiskie: sent a mail to -devel with the current status on everything from me [02:31] Actually, zoom works on both that were crashing now. [02:32] pretty awesome zooming, thanks ali1234 [02:32] I'd still like an option to disable it though, zoomed takes a bit on here when I move. === nanotube is now known as nanotuba === nanotuba is now known as nanotube [07:45] ochosi: so - installing the 4.12 you have to have the 4.10 ppa as well? or is that just for pre trusty? [08:29] ochosi micahg - no apparent 'oh noes' going on that I can see with those ppa's - including jackson's [08:41] ochosi: added the 4.12/shimmer/gtk3 ind ppa's to this machine - all seems ok - but ABout Xfce is saying 4.10 [08:44] http://imagebin.org/282082 [08:44] notice - odd time in the indicator - I quite like the idea of a clock with only an hour hand - others might not :) [08:47] is that indicator datetime? [08:48] that should never happen... [08:49] ali1234: I assume that it is - and should never happen didn't get installed here I guess :) [09:15] Noskcaj: just so you know - I've got the ppa's all installed here fine :) [09:17] brainwash: can kind of confirm that abiword ruler issue - though as soon as you attempt to resize it then ruler then appears [09:29] ochosi ali1234 - does this make sense to you - if it does I'll call for testing [09:29] http://pastebin.com/74VWcEK5 [09:31] depends what you are trying to test [09:31] the gtk3 inds and whatever ochosi wanted people to be using the shimmer and xfce 4.12 ppa's for [09:32] as discussed in meeting yesterday [09:32] well, the indicator upstart stuff is still broken, but other than that... [09:37] which is giving what results? [09:37] I've not been in any fit state to follow much of late [09:38] indicators will randomly fail to load up [09:38] ok - thanks ali1234 [09:39] ali1234: like the sound one was doing in saucy from time to time I assume - so a panel restart gets them back? [09:39] no, that was a different bug [09:39] restarting the panel won't help [09:39] it might even make more of them disappear [09:39] ok - thanks [09:39] is there a bug number for that? [09:39] the workaround is to put INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes in /etc/environment [09:40] only https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-network/+bug/1185565 [09:40] Ubuntu bug 1185565 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Indicators should have Upstart jobs" [Medium,In progress] [09:40] it discusses some of the problems [09:40] ok thanks - will ahve a look a bit later [09:41] that bug should be retitled "tedg broke indicators for everybody" [09:41] lol [09:42] but as far as putting INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes - would that not mean that those testing it wouldn't see a fix unless they remembered to remove it - assuming so [09:42] well yeah [09:43] but it's like i always say - we know exactly what is broken and why. we need someone to fix it, more testing reports won't help [09:43] you'll have to excuse me needing things in word of one syllable at the moment I'm afraid [09:43] and yea - once people know - there's no need for report after report after report :) [09:44] basically this isn't even a bug [09:44] it's just a natural result of the massive code changes being incomplete [09:44] if you look on that bug ^ you'll see it involes about 20 different merge requests [09:44] right - I can understand that [09:45] indeed - I was just looking :p [09:45] (including one from me which fixes this specific problem) [09:45] the timeout one [09:45] right [09:46] I'll sort out a wiki page a bit later today for people to 'oh no' at [09:46] then try and get eyes on it for us [09:47] this is why, ideally, it would be a lot more useful if people were testing branches/upstream [09:47] for me anyway [09:47] I can see that - but we have a hard enough job getting people to test here let alone upstream [09:47] abysmal if you ask me [09:48] right - bbl [10:21] elfy: hey, good to hear that all about works in trusty [10:21] only restarting the panel might not suffice, as ali1234 has mentioned [10:22] i'd rather restart the whole session, as the other updated components (xfwm, xfdesktop) also need to be restarted after the upgrade [10:22] and mentioning the indicator-upstart-bug as currently known issue is certainly good (incl. bugreport-link) [10:22] so if you put all that on a wiki-page, that's certainly useful [10:23] you can use the gtk3indicators-page i created for trusty and kick out all the build instructions and replace them with the three PPAs [10:23] hey gottcode [10:24] ochosi: hey [10:24] i wasn't sure whether whiskermenu also uses garcon [10:24] it does [10:24] but if so, i guess it'll be hard to show the settings apps [10:24] yup, your menu file excludes them [10:24] we'll have to rethink that if we use whiskermenu by default [10:25] definitely something to consider [10:25] i assume you can't set a menu-file for whiskermenu separately? [10:26] it doesn't support that right now, but it could be added [10:26] at the moment it just uses whatever is the default menu-file for your environment [10:31] mhm [10:31] well it could be useful for xubuntu at least, because then we could provide a whiskermenu-menufile which would contain everything [10:32] (cause it handles the overflow stuff much nicer than the old menu) [10:32] and keep the other menu-file for the appmenu [10:32] that does make sense [10:32] so ppl can still get the old behavior back if the want [10:32] (and having all the settings apps there in a submenu really sucks) [10:33] true [10:33] do you want me to close that issue and open a new one? [10:33] if you don't mind [10:33] I prefer to keep issues as single-topic as possible [10:33] sure, np [10:34] yeah, i understand, i hate it when we get bugreports that later get hi-jacked for other stuff [10:41] is there a way to set default settings for the regular appmenu? [10:44] i'm not sure [10:44] i think all the config is stored in the panel-xml [10:44] but you're right, that also might be worth investigating [10:45] then you don't have to fix/add anything in whiskermenu [10:45] exactly [10:49] I am willing to add custom menu-file support to whiskermenu, but it would be a hidden setting in 1.3 as right now it is in string freeze [10:53] sounds good [10:54] also in 1.3 is support for default settings, so if a user removes whiskermenu and adds it back they get your defaults [10:54] which means they would get your custom menu-file for every instance of whiskermenu [10:56] hm [10:56] that doesn't sounds ideal [10:56] you only want the first instance to do that? [10:57] although the custom menu file would simply try to include all desktop files [10:57] so it'd be actually good [10:57] nah, i'm just thinking that (theoretically) it's hard for ppl to switch to another menu-file [10:57] but it's not very problematic [10:57] yeah, that's true [10:57] but the only reason to use a different menu-file is usually to have a different selection [10:58] which make search not as useful [10:58] yeah [10:58] i think we should strive to empower the search as much as we can [10:59] it is the part I find most useful :) [10:59] i'll give it a testrun to see how it looks when i use the xfce-menu-file [10:59] ok [11:00] hm [11:00] ? [11:00] so changing the menu-file for the applications-menu-plugin doesn't change the default i guess [11:00] just for that instance of the appmenu, I think [11:00] you can have multiple instances [11:01] yeah, which we will probably provide when panel-switch is ready (to give a quick way to switch to a gnome2 layout) [11:02] makes sense [11:02] right, that's how i made the settings menu [11:05] bbl [11:06] sure, thanks gottcode [11:08] morning all [11:08] morning [11:09] hi ochosi [11:31] ochosi: ok - I'll fiddle with that wiki page then [11:35] ochosi: i'd rather restart the whole session, as the other updated components (xfwm, xfdesktop) also need to be restarted after the upgrade - just reboot? [11:38] elfy: yeah, you can also reboot [11:38] or logout > login [11:42] I'll go for logout/in :) [11:43] what about bugs - if people get indicators failing - do we actually want them to spam LP with bugs? or shall I specify mailing the dev list rather? [11:44] or maybe add a "If you note bugs that are NOT Listed below, please report them as normal" in the Known Issues bit [11:44] no, no need to confirm the failing indicators for now [11:44] yeah [11:44] create a bug report beforehand? [11:44] there is a bugreport for the indicators failing i think [11:44] there isd [11:44] is [11:45] ochosi: so - dev list ? [11:45] so we can mark them as duplicates :D [11:45] brainwash: yea - but it's just work for people and spams people's inbox's [11:45] see 1208204 for how much of a pita it is [11:46] ochosi: probably best to do something like If you note bugs that are NOT Listed below, please report them as normal" [11:46] yeah [11:46] sounds good to me [11:46] btw does the smooth background transition work for you? I assume all the changes are now included in the 4.12 ppa [11:47] if you mean do I not get the grey background - then not it's not working here :) [11:47] no, aren't included [11:47] brainwash: not so smoothly in my Suacy box with 4.12 PPA [11:47] ok [11:47] xfwm4 is still built without the root-pixmap thingy and xfdesktop is also too old [11:47] I still get it also [11:48] Unit193 has an updated PPA with that, but it doesn't work so i assume there are some packaging issues [11:48] ochosi: and don't forget the greeter =S [11:48] brainwash: for that there's a daily PPA and we'll be doing a dev-release soon [11:48] great [11:48] so no need to worry about that one [11:48] really feels like we should push all the changes now [11:49] to have some more time for testing [11:50] we really need to ensure that PPA's that people want looking at get pushed to the mailing list [11:50] I have absolutely no idea at all what's been going on for a week or more [11:51] ochosi: ok - done https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators [11:51] if you could/or someone else give it a onceover I'll push it to the mailing list for people and on the forum as well [11:52] and I'll spam xubuntu-testers with it as well ;) [11:52] thanks elfy [11:53] on a minor note - that will help me get my head around this - why does About XFCE in the menu still say 4.10 though? is it because it is 4.10 with some bits and pieces from 4.11/4.12 [11:53] i guess the about dialog wasn't updated [11:53] we can consider doing that, but much of the system is still 4.10 [11:54] ochosi: ok - and sorry - one last thing - did you see my screenshot ^^ of the dodgy time indicator? [11:54] elfy ochosi https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators seems ok [11:54] elfy: i did, what about it exactly? [11:55] well - I assume it's not supposed to look like that [11:55] no, it doesn't here [11:55] but i'm on saucy [11:55] mmm - all trsuty here [11:55] there are a few indicator-issues within ubuntu as well, as ali1234 mentioned [11:55] so i think we might have to wait a bit for the dust to settle in that respect [11:56] ok [11:56] right - I'll get the call out now then [11:56] thanks [11:56] and feel free to mention the workaround in the known issues section directly [11:57] so ppl don't have to dig through the bugreport [11:57] the INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes one? [11:57] if so ali1234 had put that there I believe - it's on the page already when I looked [11:58] yes i added a couple of notes yesterday [11:58] in the "known issues" section [11:58] oh [11:58] sorry, overlooked that then [11:58] niceto see that the add new items is a bit more populated now :) [11:59] bbl [12:12] ok - forum/discourse/LP/mailing list all spammed with it [12:27] elfy: should the known issue be listed too? occasionally missing indicators and sound indicator icon [12:28] known issues [12:29] on top of that, people might use other themes than greybird and notice some visual glitches [12:29] oh, my bad [12:30] add it to the wiki page then :D [12:34] if you could [12:34] :) [12:34] but I'd guess we'd want to know about visual glitches when not using greybird - or at the least glitches when using default themese [12:35] can you confirm the missing sound indicator icon? [12:35] happens not all the time [12:36] not at the moment I can't - I've not had that go awol since I started usingtrusty daily [12:36] but I will confirm it when and if I see it :) [12:36] but I tend to reboot once a day [12:36] well, you just installed the gtk3 indicator stuff some hours ago, or? :) [12:37] well I had them anyway - just from git [12:38] just noticed, that we got two wiki pages for this [12:38] saucy and trusty [12:38] yea [12:38] yes, the saucy should be historical [12:39] bug 1238997 still points to the saucy one [12:39] bug 1238997 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Add support for GTK3 panel indicators" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238997 [12:39] i don't see that [12:39] O:) [12:40] knome: just going to do the merge proposal for the new post install test, shall I ping you to get it approved? [12:40] then I'll deal with the tracker as well [12:40] assuming we want to go ahead with that no [12:40] w [12:40] you can ping me to get it approved and merged [12:40] ok [12:47] knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/Xubuntu_Post_Install/+merge/198932 [12:53] elfy, merged and added to the tracker; go link it [13:12] knome: found my way thought the labyrinth of tracker admin and disabled the 2 previous and added the new one :) [13:12] nice [15:29] ochosi: so this odd then - xchat just decided as I moved the mouse to do this to xchat window http://imagebin.org/282133 [15:55] elfy: does that only affect xchat? [15:55] yea - seemingly [15:55] is it a gtk3 app? [15:56] I'm not sure tbh - I don't think it is [15:56] but - why it changed when I moved the mouse I've no idea [15:56] so all the other apps look fine? [15:56] yep :) [15:57] at least those I've looked at are - I've not opened everything up :) [15:58] ideally check the logs of xfsettingsd [15:58] can you also just open another gtk3 app? [15:58] e.g. software sources [15:58] sry, ig2g [15:58] just did - looks fine [15:58] bbiab [15:58] yep - cya later [16:22] elfy, ping [16:23] elfy: nevermind, don't pong back :P [16:24] knome: ping [16:27] slickymaster, pong [16:27] knome: regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1256894 [16:27] Ubuntu bug 1256894 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Hidden panels' popping up missing from testcase" [Undecided,In progress] [16:28] there's already this

Tick the 'Automatically show and hide the panel' option under the "General" section

The panel should automatically hide if the mouse is not hovering over it

in the existent test [16:29] does it also check if it pops up? [16:29] kus a sec [16:29] if yes, mark the bug invalid; if not, add that and do a MP :) [16:29] just^^ [16:29] bbiab [16:30] no there isn't, I'll add it and do a MP [17:50] ochosi: seems that at the same time as ^^ happening I also lost it from the panel [17:50] just fyi [17:51] elfy: could you start it from the terminal and then check whether you get any suspicious output when you reproduce it? [17:53] from tomorrow I'l run it from a terminal until I see the same thing again [17:54] ok thanks! [17:58] ok - all set to go :) [18:24] test [18:24] ali1234: when you did the xfwm4 research lately wrt the window-type-hints and all, do you recall anything that would explain why dialogs (that cannot be maximized) have a maximize button in xfwm4? [18:24] i.e. this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1177116 [18:24] Ubuntu bug 1177116 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Xfwm4's 'dialog' window has an unused maximise-button" [Low,Triaged] [18:25] no, but i could look at it sometime [18:25] i never noticed it before, but even e.g. file-delete dialogs in thunar have a maximize button [18:25] and they clearly shouldn't have one [18:25] kinda odd [18:26] ok, well if you dig into that mess again, it'd be nice if you could keep your eyes open for that one [18:31] i'm probably not going to get anything more done until after christmas [18:35] ochosi: Could be, but blues compiled from source and got the same result. [18:47] elfy elfy elfy [18:47] elfy: can you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators to tell uses what they need to use? [18:47] Saucy, Trusty daily [18:48] people on the social medias are asking [18:59] pleia2: mmm - well surprisingly as I sent it to testers and the dev mailing list - I didn't think I need to say that - especially given the url :) [19:01] though at least we'll get people saying they can't install the daily properly given it's issues [19:02] :) [19:02] I assume nothing [19:03] perfect, thank you [19:03] no wonder we never get any testing if people in -dev and -testers need to be told which thing we're actually testing for 6 months of the year ... [19:03] lol [19:03] well PPAs confuse people [19:04] lol [19:04] could be we are trying to get gtk3 working on saucy too! [19:04] there are instructions for that too - saucy is in the url ;) [19:05] probably my fault for sending it to social media, these people are all the newbie crowd for testing ;) [19:05] pleia2: I'll not stop you doing that :) [19:05] hehe [19:06] wandering off again [19:06] see you [19:23] Unit193: weird, i thought that brainwash and ali1234 got it working for them... [19:23] (the flicker-free login transition) [19:24] you need xfwm4 built with special options, xfdesktop from upstream, and gtk-greeter from upstream [19:24] Got the context, no idea but in theory it should. [19:25] -DMONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP, right: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/159611368/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.xfwm4_4.11.0~0.tabwin.git20131212.edf7ad4-1~13.10.1_UPLOADING.txt.gz [19:27] ok, what about xfdesktop? [19:27] and gtk-greeter? [19:27] you need git master, not any release [19:28] gtk-greeter you get from daily, xfdesktop is git master, commit f12aa43 to be exact. [19:29] ok, where do you see flicker? [19:29] ochosi: ^ [19:29] "Login" [19:29] at what stage? [19:30] and what is the precise nature of it? [19:32] OK, so lightdm "panels" go away, I still see the background, then something set it black for a moment as the xfce4-panels showed up at the exact same time. [19:34] sry, g2g, bbiab [19:37] black? now we got grey (xfwm4), white (xfdesktop) and black (?) [19:52] black is something totally new [19:52] quite possibly your x server [19:52] Alright. Virtualbox test it was. === genii_ is now known as genii [21:45] brainwash: didn't you say the greeter had some problems after hibernation? [21:45] or someone said that [21:45] i just tried suspend, and that went fine [21:46] meaning: the greeter displayed "unlock" as intended (not "log in" as reported). tested on saucy though [21:46] but that means it's not unlikely that lightdm is the culprit [22:01] ochosi: yeah, I noticed it yesterday (trusty) [22:02] I will try to reproduce it [22:07] ok, thanks [22:08] Why in all the status.ubuntu.com stuff am i noskcaj rather than jackson doak? [22:08] I just thought the latter would make more sense [22:09] Noskcaj, you don't have a personal "page" on s.u.c, so you are referred to by your LP nick [22:09] ok [22:09] Noskcaj, i have asked the site developers to consider getting *at least* the real names for everybody (even those with no personal pages) [22:10] how do i get a personal page? [22:11] i don't know the process to that [22:11] i guess just ask the right people and have enough work items to warrant one [22:14] hm, odd, if you have your name on things on status.u.c you should be listed on http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/people.html [22:14] pleia2, yes, sorted by launchpad nick [22:14] pleia2, you are there! [22:15] but Noskcaj is not? [22:15] he doesn't have a name. [22:15] err, in s.u.c. ;) [22:15] I mean, having a "personal page" should be automatic if you have work items listed on suc [22:16] shouldn't have to ask anyone [22:16] no... [22:16] that's not how it goes [22:16] huh [22:16] there's some fishy stuff [22:16] I wonder how I got one :) [22:16] not all have userpages [22:16] I always assumed it was automatic [22:16] * knome shrughs [22:16] nope, that would have been too hard on the server [22:16] i'm told [22:16] sad [22:17] they should use the cloud! [22:17] there's lot to say about what the IS could do better [22:17] knome, pleia2: quick question while you're around: what date do we wanna set as deadline for contributions to the wallpaper-contest? [22:18] ochosi, didn't i answer you about that already? [22:18] yeah, but we didn't discuss it with pleia2 [22:18] and we didn't write anything down [22:18] i can't remember the answer, but iirc it was "end of january" [22:18] so consequently i don't remember the exact date [22:18] then why are you pinging me ;] [22:18] hehe [22:18] because i'd prefer if we would write something down [22:18] after holidays, no preference other than that [22:18] and also make it public [22:19] * knome writes "something" on a paper [22:19] and knome loses the paper in the move [22:19] hah! [22:19] we will never remember something now [22:19] dare me :) [22:19] i never forget anything [22:19] except my keys the last time [22:19] end of january seems fine [22:19] but that's not information! [22:20] there was even a justification for that [22:20] it's a kind of information [22:20] yeah, the freezes [22:20] we wanted a month before "some freeze" or something [22:20] yep [22:20] so to have enough time to get things packaged and uploaded [22:20] month before b1 [22:20] that was it [22:20] good [22:20] so we have the wallpapers in b1 [22:20] hopefully [22:20] latest in b2 [22:20] so shall we also set a date for our voting? [22:21] so January 27th [22:21] knome: make it so, number 1 [22:21] an artwork meeting or something [22:21] i'm not sure i have access to that google calendar thingy, but if someone could add it there so we don't forget, that'd be nice [22:21] ochosi, pleia2: what about jan 29? [22:21] knome: trouble maker [22:22] all the same to me [22:22] should work [22:22] and should be better than 27 for me [22:22] ok, I'll put 29 on calendar [22:22] great, thanks [22:23] pleia2, i meant the meeting [22:23] but whatever ;) [22:24] my connection just bumped [22:24] jan 30 would be thursday [22:24] which is our regular meeting day [22:24] so you'd prefer that? [22:24] i thought deadline on monday 27 and meeting on wednesday 29 would have been the best [22:25] then we could have announced the results on meeting on thursday 30 [22:25]